pattern drafting question: front vs back waist measurement?
Mary
I hope there are pattern drafters out there who can help me with my
fit problem. I am taking a local pattern drafting class and have made
a dress muslim with a fitted bodice from my measurements and will
later convert it to a sloper. It's a few days until my next class and
I really want to fix this so I can move on. Plus, i think the
instructor is not quite as picky as I am about the fit (she's seen it
already). But here is my problem:
I'm not quite happy with the fit, and I can't quite figure out what's
wrong. there seems to be excess fabric between my waist and hips in
the back. What's really frustrating is that the "test" muslim we made
using an old "size 12" measurement set, seems to fit me better in the
waist and hips than the one made from my own measurements! I suspect
the measurements may be to blame, specifically the waist measurement.
My waist is 27" and hips are 37". The "size 12 test" muslim used a
"front waist" measurement of 12 3/4" and a "back waist" meausurement
of 13 3/4" for a total of 26 1/2". This is very close to mine, but
when I made my pattern I simply divided the front and back evenly,
into 13.5" each. Should they actually be different? If so, how do you
measure this? I have a slightly swayed back. Does this make a
difference?
I was thinking to either 1) redraft using the different front and back
waist measurements or 2) taking in the excess fabric in the darts. I
really want to make this perfect since it will become a sloper base.
Thanks for any help and I hope I provided all the necessary
information.
-Mary
Karina Sendt
: I'm not quite happy with the fit, and I can't quite figure out what's
: wrong. there seems to be excess fabric between my waist and hips in
: the back.
In which direction is there too much fabric? Does it appear to be too long,
or too wide?
What's really frustrating is that the "test" muslim we made
: using an old "size 12" measurement set, seems to fit me better in the
: waist and hips than the one made from my own measurements! I suspect
: the measurements may be to blame, specifically the waist measurement.
: My waist is 27" and hips are 37". The "size 12 test" muslim used a
: "front waist" measurement of 12 3/4" and a "back waist" meausurement
: of 13 3/4" for a total of 26 1/2". This is very close to mine, but
: when I made my pattern I simply divided the front and back evenly,
: into 13.5" each. Should they actually be different?
I don't have mine hear, but I think that it is different.
If so, how do you
: measure this?
How are you making this sloper? With mine I took quite a few measurements,
and then followed the instructions in the book that I have as to how I
should be dividing things up. Are you using some sort of formula (like this),
or are you draping fabric and pinning until you get a good fit?
I have a slightly swayed back. Does this make a
: difference?
It will make a difference to the length that you should have between your
waist and your hips. If you haven't corrected for it, where you sloper says
you hips should be and where they actually are won't necessarily be at the
same place! This can make a difference to the way that it will sit.
Karina
Kay Lancaster
> wrong. there seems to be excess fabric between my waist and hips in
> the back. What's really frustrating is that the "test" muslim we made
> using an old "size 12" measurement set, seems to fit me better in the
> waist and hips than the one made from my own measurements! I suspect
> the measurements may be to blame, specifically the waist measurement.
> My waist is 27" and hips are 37". The "size 12 test" muslim used a
> "front waist" measurement of 12 3/4" and a "back waist" meausurement
> of 13 3/4" for a total of 26 1/2". This is very close to mine, but
> when I made my pattern I simply divided the front and back evenly,
> into 13.5" each. Should they actually be different? If so, how do you
> measure this? I have a slightly swayed back. Does this make a
> difference?
I'm not going to be a whole lot of help here because I drape rather than
draft bodices, but I do draft pants, and front and back should be different
there. Ditto in bodices, the side seams are not placed on the mathmatical
"half line".
Sounds to me, though, that the problem may be more in the back waist
darts not fitting you correctly than the seam line placement. Try widening
(and perhaps shaping) the lower half of the fisheye in the back.
Check the seam allowances, too.... I remember one disastrous one that I
sewed on an unfamiliar machine with the wrong allowance... boy, did I get
off on the wrong foot!
And just for the record, the test pieces is a "muslin", like the fabric,
or "toile", the French word for cloth. I suspect your spell checker got
you. :-)
Kay Lancaster k...@fern.com
Scott P
difference accounts for things like flatness/curvature of your stomach and
flatness/curvature of your back. We're not symmetric cylinders, so the
measurements usually differ.
Similarly, you should be using front and back hip measurements instead of
dividing your circumference in half.
-scott
"Mary" <smile...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a874b8cb.02030...@posting.google.com...
> Hello!
Lisa L.
into quarters. For the front waist, add a quarter inch. For the back
waist, subtract a quarter inch. That'll give you the waist arc
measurements. With your hip measurements, you'll have to add to the back
and subtract from the front. Make sense??? I can try to explain it better
when I have more time...
Lisa
"Mary" <smile...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a874b8cb.02030...@posting.google.com...
Sally Holmes
> I'm not quite happy with the fit, and I can't quite figure out
what's
> wrong. there seems to be excess fabric between my waist and hips in
> the back.
I wonder if it could be too tight around the hips? That can cause
wrinkles.
--
Sally Holmes
Wakefield, West Yorkshire, England
Jen Stosser
I've seen the term mentioned in numerous places about pattern drafting, but
nowhere has the term been defined!
Jen
--
Remove "hunkyman" from a dress to reply. :-)
Correct email address to reply to is
jenerators-AT-optushome-DOT-com-DOT-au
"Mary" <smile...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a874b8cb.02030...@posting.google.com...
Melinda Meahan
>
> I hope you don't think this is a stupid question, but what is a "sloper"?
> I've seen the term mentioned in numerous places about pattern drafting, but
> nowhere has the term been defined!
It's a pattern drafted with 0 ease, used like a template to make other
garments.
--
I know God will not give me anything I can't handle.
I just wish that He didn't trust me so much. - Mother Teresa
Joy Stafford-Evans
issue of the Vogue home pattern magazine I just received, there is a article
on fit that includes adjusting for swayback. There is a diagram of before
to compare the wrinkles and information about adjusting. Every issue has
some fit instruction and a coupon for buy 1 get 2 free patterns. Also as
good as Joann's sales with out leaving the house. And I have ordered older
patterns with the coupon, as long as it's still in print, they don't have to
be from the current issue.
Joy
Bernadette & Stuart Anderson
> What's really frustrating is that the "test" muslim we made
> : using an old "size 12" measurement set, seems to fit me better in the
> : waist and hips than the one made from my own measurements! I suspect
> : the measurements may be to blame, specifically the waist measurement.
> : My waist is 27" and hips are 37". The "size 12 test" muslim used a
> : "front waist" measurement of 12 3/4" and a "back waist" meausurement
> : of 13 3/4" for a total of 26 1/2". This is very close to mine, but
> : when I made my pattern I simply divided the front and back evenly,
> : into 13.5" each. Should they actually be different?
> I have a slightly swayed back. Does this make a
> : difference?
I'm 36-27-37 with a deep sway back!! one of the big problems I have is the
gathering over the tush on retail bought clothes ... which sounds like the
excess you may have. The reason for it is because if the garment is pulled
in at the waist (by pattern design or with a belt for example), the center
back length becomes too short and really what you have done is bring the
hips toward the waist ... common problem for people with a sway back ...
Two solutions
1. increase the waist so that it's less fitted and drops properly (horrible
baggy feeling at back)
2. increase the length of the center back seam to match that of your actual
body length (ie; tape against the body when doing things like nape to waist,
waist to hips).
hope that helps
regards
Bernadette
===================================
Metric Pattern Making for Swimwear
http://home.iprimus.com.au/seanderson/patterns/
===================================
Bernadette & Stuart Anderson
Jen Stosser <jener...@hunkyman.optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:3c8956b4$0$16636$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> I hope you don't think this is a stupid question, but what is a "sloper"?
> I've seen the term mentioned in numerous places about pattern drafting,
but
> nowhere has the term been defined!
A sloper is the American expression for what us Aussies call a block ;-)
Mary
I took yet another look at my construction on Kay's advice and
found a mistake: I drew the front hip line a quarter inch too big,
making it a half inch too big in the front, and this affected the
slope of the hip to the waist. After fixing this, it did look a
little better.
However, after reading all of your posts and taking my own
measurements
again, I am convinced that it is treally the front vs back waist and
hip measurements which are to blame, so I am redrafting my pattern
now. I need to buy some more muslim, so it will be a little bit
before I will know if this helps, but i'm pretty confident. i'll let
you know how it turns out.
Thank you so much for all the responses!
Mary
Kay Lancaster
>> I hope you don't think this is a stupid question, but what is a "sloper"?
>> I've seen the term mentioned in numerous places about pattern drafting,
> but
>> nowhere has the term been defined!
>
> A sloper is the American expression for what us Aussies call a block ;-)
Hm. I'm in the US, and I differentiate between a sloper and a block. A
sloper is a basic pattern for a bodice, skirt, pants or combined as a
1950's looking basic dress, with only enough ease that you can barely
move or breathe.
From a sloper, you can design basic patterns with design ease -- blocks.
You might have a shirt block, a torso block, a princess block, a pants block,
a skirt block... but all of these in their least adorned form will still
produce garments you'd be able to wear in public.
Kay Lancaster k...@fern.com
Bernadette & Stuart Anderson
> From a sloper, you can design basic patterns with design ease -- blocks.
> You might have a shirt block, a torso block, a princess block, a pants
block,
> a skirt block... but all of these in their least adorned form will still
> produce garments you'd be able to wear in public.
Interesting ... we teach students to create a set of "blocks" depending on
their final function eg; a close fitting bodice block or a loose fitting
block, a basic skirt block, basic pants block etc. A block is something from
which styled patterns are then created. Blocks have ease for the type built
in but do not have any seam allowances. We do not add ease to a block which
might already have ease and call it another block ... each block is drafted
to a set of instructions (eg; the Winifred Aldridge set of books).
Slopers (at least from the pattern making programs I see out there) appear
to be a set of something like bodice blocks with the darts in assorted
potistions ready to make those 50's dresses you talk of.
If I understand you .... you make blocks from slopers ... like we make
patterns from blocks .... in that case in Australia a block _is_ what
Americans call a sloper ... even though in America you distinguish between
them. I'd be interested to see you clearly distinguish between Sloper, Block
and Pattern :-) ...now I'm really confused about what you guys do over there
LOL!
DeborahC
of pants or fitted skirt was to reshape the back darts and/or back seam.
Found out I didn't need to shorten the back seam, just reshape it and the
darts. I was studying darts one day, how they are shaped and the purpose
for the concave and convex shapes. Which were to accommodate curves that go
outward or inward. Once I did that, I finally after all these years, had a
smooth fit from the back waist down to the rear end and sides.
Food for thought......
Deborah
Kay Lancaster
<seand...@iprimus.com.au> wrote:
> If I understand you .... you make blocks from slopers ... like we make
> patterns from blocks .... in that case in Australia a block _is_ what
> Americans call a sloper ... even though in America you distinguish between
> them. I'd be interested to see you clearly distinguish between Sloper, Block
> and Pattern :-) ...now I'm really confused about what you guys do over there
Let's see if I can give some examples, as I learned them:
1) I drape a bodice with no design ease, balance it. (I'm saying drape here
because that's how I start... other people may draft.) That's a bodice sloper.
High jewel neckline, darts, armscye suitable for a set in sleeve, high under
the arm. No seam allowance (though I'll obviously have to add seam allowances
to make it up for a test muslin).
2) I take the bodice sloper and turn it into a dartless shirt block, which
has the dart control distributed to shoulder seam, armscye, side seam, waist,
etc. and a dropped shoulder. It's still close-fitting, but not nearly the
"fittedness" of the bodice sloper. Again, I add seam allowances to it to make
a test muslin, but the block itself doesn't have them. I'll get something
recognizably a shirt body, but with little ease. It could
be worn in public, but not by me!
3) I style the shirt block... add a yoke, pockets, design ease,
sleeves, whatever... add seam allowances, and it's a pattern for a garment
that I will wear in public.
Personally, since I'm doing patterns just for myself and a few others, I
tend to have sort of a master pattern derived from the block...
it's a most basic shirt pattern (to continue with the example) with design
ease to give the silhouette I normally like, and my standard sleeve,
standard collar stand, etc. that I like-- I don't go back to my actual
block for each pattern I make, because I've already done the basic work.
I've included the seam allowances on the pattern. It's quite likely,
though, that I'll change the shape of a pocket, a collar, change from long
to short sleeves, change the shape of a cuff on this basic pattern.
On the other hand, if I decided I wanted a princess-seamed shirt, I'd most
likely work from my princess block (which was also derived from the bodice
sloper) rather than my usual shirt block or my shirt master pattern.