Burnt out mains capacitor
Chrisy
This looks like a great newsgroup.
Husqvarna Optima 150
We have burnt out an AC capacitor in our old Husqvarna.
What we wanted to know is if it's alright to continue using it with the
cap removed, at least till we can find another one?
Is it just a RF suppressor, or is it to stop arcing within the foot
pedal and motor brushes?
On the cap it says:
Front:
RIFA
40/085/56 GPC
PME 271M 610
CP9
Top:
0,1uF@X
Back:
fo=4,9MHz 250V~MP
565-1ALD2
There are some other symbols on the back that despite looking up special
symbols tables, I found no way of reproducing. But I think there is
more than enough information there anyway. (:
We couldn't find much in the way of caps in Australia so
would one of these do the trick? The direct link to the page is way too
long, so I had to use tinyURL to create a link, sorry.
This is the home page, just in case your wondering.
http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/
This is the tinyURL link to the high voltage capacitor page.
http://tinyurl.com/l2bh4n
Any help with this will be greatly appreciated.
Cheers.
-Chrisy
Alan Dicey
>
> Husqvarna Optima 150
>
> We have burnt out an AC capacitor in our old Husqvarna.
> What we wanted to know is if it's alright to continue using it with the
> cap removed, at least till we can find another one?
I'd say probably not. This machine has electronic speed control, and
this component could easily be part of the control circuit, not just a
transient supressor.
Having refurbished components on an Elna TSP Air Electronic circuit
board (which required me to reverse-engineer the circuit diagram), I
would say that it's not safe to assume that this capacitor is just a
mains supressor
>
> On the cap it says:
>
> Front:
I can translate some of these
> RIFA
Manufacturer, Evox Rifa
> 40/085/56 GPC
40/085/56 - IEC Climatic category: 40�C, 85% rH, 56 days
> PME 271M 610
> CP9
>
Manufacturers item code
> Top:
> 0,1uF@X
>
0.1 microFarads, the capacitance of the device.
X - Classification of capacitor,international standard. Intended for
use as interference suppressors across the power input. That doesn't
mean that it can't be used for something else, of course.
> Back:
> fo=4,9MHz 250V~MP
fo=4,9MHz - self-resonance frequency 4.9MHz
250V - 250 volt rated voltage
MP - Metallised Paper, the construction materials
> 565-1ALD2
> There are some other symbols on the back that despite looking up special
> symbols tables, I found no way of reproducing. But I think there is
> more than enough information there anyway. (:
These are likely to be the various standards markings indicating
certifications and approvals the device complies with.
The capacitor should look a lot like this one:
https://www.wellgainelectronics.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2985
>
> We couldn't find much in the way of caps in Australia so
> would one of these do the trick? The direct link to the page is way too
> long, so I had to use tinyURL to create a link, sorry.
>
> This is the home page, just in case your wondering.
> http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/
> This is the tinyURL link to the high voltage capacitor page.
> http://tinyurl.com/l2bh4n
>
Your tinyurl isn't working for me.
From the supplier you've chosen, I'd go for this component, which will
replace your burned-out example
http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/4a4b297e15c34ce22740c0a87e0106b9/Product/View/R2628
Kate XXXXXX
> Hi there.
> This looks like a great newsgroup.
On a note related to your machine, do you have the owner's manual? If
not, I can copy mine for you...
--
Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.katedicey.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!
Chrisy
>> http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/
>> This is the tinyURL link to the high voltage capacitor page.
>> http://tinyurl.com/l2bh4n
>>
>
> Your tinyurl isn't working for me.
> From the supplier you've chosen, I'd go for this component, which will
> replace your burned-out example
> http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/4a4b297e15c34ce22740c0a87e0106b9/Product/View/R2628
>
>
>
Thank you so much Alan for the link and the great advice.
Imagine how much the shop would have charged us to replace one cap.
Probably about $70AU (approx �35) would be a fair guess.
Dick Smith want $0.95 for the cap plus $9.95 for P&H, so you've saved us
around $60! You've really helped us out a lot.
I never realised how many amazing things capacitors are used for till I
started to look into it yesterday. You must really know your
electronics. It was the use of a comer instead of a full stop as a
point symbol (0,1uF) that confused me. I didn't know if it meant 0.1 or
1 uF, but I guess 1 Farad must be quite a lot. Some of those larger caps
sound quite dangerous.
The tinyurl link didn't work here either. I had to find and install the
add-on and now I don't know why I bothered. Maybe tinyurl.com is a
blocked site in my hosts file.
Anyway, cheers for that Alan, it's very much appreciated.
And being and Aussie Sheila I guess I better say it just for a laugh.
Your know you want me to! "Where the bloody hell are ya!?" <G>
-Chrisy
Chrisy
> Chrisy wrote:
>> Hi there.
>> This looks like a great newsgroup.
> It is.
>
> On a note related to your machine, do you have the owner's manual? If
> not, I can copy mine for you...
Hi Kate.
Thanks so much for the offer. No I don't have the owners manual. I sort
of inherited the Husqie from my mum a few years ago, and I've never even
seen the manual.
If it's not too much trouble, it would be very kind of you to copy it.
Do you have a scanner? At least that way it wouldn't cost anything to
send all the way to Australia. From your header, it looks like both you
and Alan are in the UK.
Cheers for the offer Kate, you really are a sweetie.
-Chrisy
--
Life isn't measured by the breaths we take,
but by the moments that take our breath away.
-Unknown
Kate XXXXXX
> Kate XXXXXX wrote:
>> Chrisy wrote:
>>> Hi there.
>>> This looks like a great newsgroup.
>> It is.
>>
>> On a note related to your machine, do you have the owner's manual? If
>> not, I can copy mine for you...
>
> Hi Kate.
> Thanks so much for the offer. No I don't have the owners manual. I sort
> of inherited the Husqie from my mum a few years ago, and I've never even
> seen the manual.
>
> If it's not too much trouble, it would be very kind of you to copy it.
> Do you have a scanner? At least that way it wouldn't cost anything to
> send all the way to Australia. From your header, it looks like both you
> and Alan are in the UK.
Yup, same house on top of the North Downs, working feet apart!
>
> Cheers for the offer Kate, you really are a sweetie.
No bother. I try to scan all my manuals so that if they go missing or I
destroy them with a Biblical Flood of tea, I'm not totally sunk! If I
haven't yet done this one, I will today, in between finishing off the
customer's order! Dress to cut out and sew up (simple back and front:
TWO LONG SEAMS AND BIAS BOUND EDGES - I know, cheating! ;) ), petticoat
and Regency Pantalettes. Should all be done by this evening.
I got my 190 in a swap with my sister: she took the tiny Singer 117
Featherweight II I bought for my mum about 3 years ago, I got the 190,
and mum gets free sewing for life! :D
Send me a working email if the one to the group is a false one. Reply
To should work...
Alan Dicey
> Thank you so much Alan for the link and the great advice.
> Imagine how much the shop would have charged us to replace one cap.
> Probably about $70AU (approx �35) would be a fair guess.
>
The shop would charge for the labour involved in removing and replacing
the circuit board and the component. Maybe 30 minutes to one hour.
> Dick Smith want $0.95 for the cap plus $9.95 for P&H, so you've saved us
> around $60! You've really helped us out a lot.
>
The postage seems a lot compared with the component price. Maybe its
worth skimming Dick Smith's catalog for anything else you might need -
tools, solder, adhesives, CD/DVD-ROMs, cases, that sort of thing.
In the UK I am lucky that there is a supplier that maintains a physical
presence, real shops you can visit. Maplin Electronics has two shops
within a 30-mile radius of here. Tandy/Radio Shack used to have a shop
even closer, but they have closed down in the UK - however they still
appear to be alive in Australia, so it may just be possible there is one
close to you. Whether it is within AU$10.00 worth of petrol is a
separate question :-)
In Australia I expect that distances between towns are larger and useful
shops less widely distributed. I can find other online suppliers,
though, Jaycar, Altronics, Farnell Australia and RS Components
Australia, should you need to shop around in the future.
> I never realised how many amazing things capacitors are used for till I
> started to look into it yesterday. You must really know your
> electronics. It was the use of a comer instead of a full stop as a
> point symbol (0,1uF) that confused me. I didn't know if it meant 0.1 or
> 1 uF, but I guess 1 Farad must be quite a lot. Some of those larger caps
> sound quite dangerous.
The use of a comma for the decimal place is standard practice in
continental Europe. Rifa is Swiss-based.
Capacitors are charge storage devices, and large devices can store
enough to give a startling shock. One Farad would be a large
capacitance, and I've never seen a single device that large. In the few
applications where they are necessary they are built up from banks of
smaller devices.
The biggest danger from larger capacitors is explosive decomposition
from putting AC across them. Larger capacitors are polarised and can
only be connected across a load where the DC component is larger than
the AC ripple. Going negative will result in a fountain of hot paste
spitting out of a safety vent in the lid of the can.
Anything can be dangerous if handled carelessly.
> Anyway, cheers for that Alan, it's very much appreciated.
No problem. I assume that you or someone nearby is confident enough
with a soldering iron to swap out the dead component.
I'd be careful to check the machine for any other damaged components,
resistors showing signs of overheating or capacitors with bulged cases.
When I refurbished Kate's Elna, the root of the problem was a
burned-out resistor, the capacitors had just aged and bulged from
overheating. Metallised Paper capacitors are known to deteriorate with
age. It may be worth replacing any other such devices on the board.
http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk/StellaTSP_Electronics_refurb/Stella_refurb.htm
Careful not to overheat the board while soldering or desoldering,
especially if close to any active devices (transistors, integrated
circuits - generally anything with three or more leads). Also, the
printed circuit tracks can lift off the surface if overheated. A
desoldering pump can be helpful.
Out of interest, can you post pics of the board, showing the burned out
component, if you have a digital camera?
> And being and Aussie Sheila I guess I better say it just for a laugh.
> Your know you want me to! "Where the bloody hell are ya!?" <G>
The UK. Same house as Kate :-)
Lizzy Taylor
> The biggest danger from larger capacitors is explosive decomposition
> from putting AC across them. Larger capacitors are polarised and can
> only be connected across a load where the DC component is larger than
> the AC ripple. Going negative will result in a fountain of hot paste
> spitting out of a safety vent in the lid of the can.
Ah yes, the yellow stinky stuff. ;-) DH not me - it stains too, much
like ferric chloride.
Lizzy
Alan Dicey
The most likely electrolyte is apparently boric acid or sodium borate.
There'll be a lot of fried paper in there too, and whatever other
additional solvents or modifiers are needed.
Chrisy
Hi Alan.
The closest shop that sells that sort of thing is in Cairns, around 3
hours drive from where we live. So $10 is much cheaper (and safer) than
driving that far. Our local sowing shop sends all machines that need
work down to some place in Cairns, so we wouldn't see it for a fortnight
if we took that route. Where as the cap should be here is 3 to 4 days.
The cap isn't on a circuit board, it's across the 240v power supply/foot
pedal socket just inside the case. It doesn't seam to have a PCB
at all. Unless there is one in the foot pedal. The rocker switch for
the light seams a little 2nd. hand though. But whether it would be
possible to find one that would fit our machine is another story.
My partner of 12 years, besides being a lazy sod lol, is fairly handy
all round. He built this house (not quite finished yet), built our desk
top computer, and replaced 2 blue caps in it's LCD monitor a few months
ago, when it refused to come off stand-by. He said to say that he just
hasn't had much to do with AC caps before. And despite his (mounting)
collection of old PCBs' (aka junk), had nothing like the one in our
sowing machine. The example cap in the link you posted looks very
similar, if not identical to our dead one though. A rectangular
transparent beige box, with two wires and lots of numbers, with no "-"
mark for polarity.
Just out of interest, here is an interesting link which mentions 5,000F
caps. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultracapacitors#cite_note-1
I saw a large blue cap in a guitar amp blow once. Quite a loud pop,
some sparks and lots of white smoke. It was very funny, but our
guitarist didn't think so at the time. (: Lots of paper and foil hanging
out the back of his amp, lol, those were the days! When the cap in the
Husqie went, it was no where near as exciting. Just a quiet pop and some
white smoke.
Thanks again Alan.
-Chrisy
Chrisy
Ok, thanks again Kate.
I just sent you an email with one of our working email addresses.
That sounds like a good swap to me. A real win/win situation.
I'm not that good at sowing myself. My partner, Adrian, is actually
better at it than I am, /blushes, but less motivated. So I guess that
sort of balances us out. (:
Your web site looks great, and very useful, I think you will be getting
a little more traffic for a while at least. <S>
-Chrisy
Chrisy
Hay Alan.
The cap arrived today, Adrian put it in, and it works like a charm!
Thank you so very much for your able assistance.
Maybe it's just a cheaper version, but the new one is a fair bit
smaller, then again I guess 20 odd years is a long time in electronics.
I took a few pics (as you asked) with my mobile, and as soon as I fire
up my work laptop with the bluetooth card in, I will email them to you.
Yours gratefully.
Chrisy.
Alan Dicey
>
> Hay Alan.
> The cap arrived today, Adrian put it in, and it works like a charm!
> Thank you so very much for your able assistance.
>
> Maybe it's just a cheaper version, but the new one is a fair bit
> smaller, then again I guess 20 odd years is a long time in electronics.
>
> I took a few pics (as you asked) with my mobile, and as soon as I fire
> up my work laptop with the bluetooth card in, I will email them to you.
> Yours gratefully.
> Chrisy.
Chrisy - from your previous description, that the capacitor was simply
screwed into the power cord terminals with no other circuit board, I'm
certain that it is just a mains supressor, and nothing more complicated.
Kate's 190 does have a circuit board with a microprocessor on it (I've
had a look), attached to the power cord plug., which would make it more
of a risk to run without a component.