Industrial Serger - Stuck Crankshaft / Handwheel / Differential

[mattwi...@gmail.com]

Hi All.

My wife recently purchased a Wilcox & Gibbs Industrial 5-Thread Serger (515-4-52). The handwheel and crankshaft mechanism are completely stuck and only rotate about 1/8" in either direction. I got it to work briefly when we first set it up by strongly turning the handwheel until it rotated, I put the belt on the handwheel and it worked fine for the evening. The next morning it had frozen completely and will not turn regardless of how much pressure I apply.

Through my investigations, I found that the Differential Feed Shaft and Lever are stuck as well.

I opened the machine to the best of my ability apart from removing the oil pan and opening the main body - I put in new oil, and oiled all sections of the crankshaft, all ball bearings and bushings that are accessible.

I cleaned the needle/looper section extensively looking for anything blocking these parts and nothing is abnormal.

And after spending about 6 hours trying to get it to work, I put the machine back together and turned away IN FAILURE!!!

SOOO - if there is anyone out there that can offer any advice - or point me in the right direction - I would be eternally grateful.

Thank you in advance!

[BEI Design]

mattwi...@gmail.com wrote:
<gentle snip>

> SOOO - if there is anyone out there that can offer any
> advice - or point me in the right direction - I would be
> eternally grateful.
>
> Thank you in advance!

My first stop would be at the shop where your wife purchased
the machine, surely they offer after-sale support?

Since you're in CO, I'm guessing taking it to Ron is out,
but give him a call or e-mail:

Ron Anderson A1 Sewing Machine
18 Dingman Rd Sand Lake, NY 12153
http://www.a1sewingmachine.com
www.facebook.com/A1SewingMachineSpecialists

Voice mail (518)469-5133
Email : r...@a1sewingmachine.com

NAYY,

--
Beverly

[mattwi...@gmail.com]

Hey Beverly - Thanks for the reply.

This was unfortunately a Craigs List purchase, so we're a bit disadvantaged by that - the individual who we bought it from demonstrated that it worked before my wife purchased it, and has agreed to try to service it for us if we bring it back - but it is a 5 hr round trip, and I'm trying to avoid it if this is something I can address on my own.

But I am learning that sewing machine repair is like working on a jet engine!

I will certainly reach out to Ron if there isn't a response that can help.

Thanks again - Matt

[BEI Design]

mattwi...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hey Beverly - Thanks for the reply.
>
> This was unfortunately a Craigs List purchase,

My sympathies, I have recently spent some time getting a
Craigslist Singer 401A working for my brother.

> so we're a
> bit disadvantaged by that - the individual who we bought
> it from demonstrated that it worked before my wife
> purchased it, and has agreed to try to service it for us
> if we bring it back - but it is a 5 hr round trip, and
> I'm trying to avoid it if this is something I can address
> on my own.
>
> But I am learning that sewing machine repair is like
> working on a jet engine!

<snort!> Yes indeed. Have you seen these:
http://home.howstuffworks.com/sewing-machine1.htm
http://home.howstuffworks.com/sewing-machine2.htm
?
And those are standard machines, not industrial sergers!

> I will certainly reach out to Ron if there isn't a
> response that can help.
>
> Thanks again - Matt

The 5 hour round trip sounds like a pretty good option,
especially if you choose the "scenic route" (Colorado in the
Fall...Aspens glowing in the sun...). ;-)

--
Beverly

[Ron Anderson]

<mattwi...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0722a1b3-6b11-4e53...@googlegroups.com...

Did you run it without the oil sump properly topped off? If so it is likely
beyond repair.
In any case it is not something anyone can diagnose without a tear down. I
would suggest an very experienced industrial sewing tech and expect to dish
out a handsome sum for repairs.

--

[cea]

I got my grandmother's old Singer, which had frozen-up, to run by doing what you have done. I used white grease, not liquid oil, on the gears and guts. I put the liquid machine oil into appropriate resevoirs.
It still refused to run, until it sat for a while. I don't know what made the difference, but it seemed to need an attitude adjustment, after being neglected for so long. If I remember right, I just kept rocking the wheel-- what little it would move--until it finally broke free.
Cea

[mattwi...@gmail.com]

Hi Ron - thanks for the reply.

My wife was told when she picked up the machine that it was adequately oiled - and the guy who sold it to her demonstrated that it worked (briefly) while she was there.

When we first tried to use it and it wasn't turning, it looked like the oil level was low. We poured an entire bottle of oil in (8 oz? - small plastic bottle) and this brought the level up to the top red line in the indicator window.

I tried to look at a couple of new sections last night - but the handwheel is absolutely rigid and will not turn whatsoever.

Will using grease in leiu of liquid oil make any difference per Cea's suggestion below? When I got it to work the only time I could - I too rocked the handwheel back and forth until it finally turned all the way - hooked up the belt - and it ran fine.

This was before filling it with oil, however, so your comment has me rather concerned that I did it harm - but we were under the impression that it had an adequate amount of oil in it per the instruction of the seller...and of course he is now reciting the "it worked fine when I sold it to you" line - but we can't help but feel like we were sold a lemon - or misguided at the least.

The machine is a beauty after I spent 6 hours detailing it - installed a new thread tree - completely refurbished the table - all I need now if for it to WORK!

Thanks again for your time in commenting - any further guidance is greatly appreciated!

[BEI Design]

mattwi...@gmail.com wrote:
[...]

> Will using grease in leiu of liquid oil make any
> difference per Cea's suggestion below? When I got it to
> work the only time I could - I too rocked the handwheel
> back and forth until it finally turned all the way -
> hooked up the belt - and it ran fine.

I'm no expert (and Ron is so if he says "don't do it", trust
*him*), but have you thought about using penetrating oil on
the frozen-up part and letting it sit for a bit?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penetrating_oil

Also, how did you pay the seller? If through PayPal or by
credit card you could/should open a dispute.

--
Beverly

[Ron Anderson]

<mattwi...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:cdde9028-72b1-4b9a...@googlegroups.com...

You do not say how low the oil was or how long you ran it. If it was well
below the low line it is just like running your automobile out of oil. Bad
things are going to happen and it will be expensive to repair.
In cases like this I have to start disassembling things one bit at a time to
trouble shoot where the problem is then see if those parts are available
etc.
I can tell you it will be pretty unlikely to find internal parts for that
machine , it is well over 20 years and those are not high mortality parts.
I concur with Beverly if you have some recourse with the seller I would go
there as you have now entered the twilight zone. Even if you do find the
bind and figure out how to clear it then you will need to make all the
critical adjustments to make it sew. This is why we OSMG's get the big
bucks.
Good luck you have your work cut out for you.
I do also assume you used proper sewing machine oil and not just any old oil
you had.
No Grease is not appropriate at all in an oil sump.
It truly sounds to me like you burned up a bearing somewhere.

[cea]

Bev's suggestion about penetrating oil is a good one.

Let me clear things up: I never suggested you put grease in the oil resevoirs. One would hope you used a refined machine oil in the appropriate resevoirs.
White grease--also highly refined--is used inside machines, on metal-to-metal moving parts. If you open an old machine, you will find what looks like a yellowish crud around the gears. That is old white grease. If you clean it off, you need to replace it with new white grease.
This is what I did to get my Gmother's machine running when it was frozen-up. Letting it set after oiling and lubricating it seemed to help. As did gently rocking the handwheel, much later, until the action broke free.

On another note, if you bought the machine from a private seller, cash-and-carry,'Let the buyer beware' usually applies. Many of us have found this out the hard way.
Hope the grease helps. I'd try Bev's idea of using penetrating oil before taking the machine to a shop.


Cea

[BEI Design]

cea wrote:
> BEI Design wrote:
<snip>

> > --
> >
> > Beverly
>
>
> Bev's suggestion about penetrating oil is a good one.

> Hope the grease helps. I'd try Bev's idea of using
> penetrating oil before taking the machine to a shop.

<Looks around> Who is this "Bev" of whom you write???

;-P

--
Beverly

[Ron Anderson]

"cea" <sewingb...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:12033851-16c5-49af...@googlegroups.com...

Penatrating oil would be fine for rusted parts or ones not submersed in oil,
no chance that would gum up. My best guess as stated is a burned up
bearing/bushing somewhere do to running with a lack of oil. Recall they said
added about 8 oz and it holds a pint to 1.5 maybe. That is 1/3 to 1/2 low
and dangerous levels.
There is no place for grease in the particular machine they are speaking of.

[cea]

On Thursday, August 16, 2012 7:08:30 PM UTC-4, BEI Design wrote:
> cea wrote:
>
> > BEI Design wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > > --
>
> > >
>
> > > Beverly
>

OOPS!!! Begging your pardon, Miz Beverly/ I know better.
Cea

[BEI Design]

cea wrote:
> BEI Design wrote:

> > <Looks around> Who is this "Bev" of whom you write???
> >

> OOPS!!! Begging your pardon, Miz Beverly/ I know
> better. Cea

Your sweet apology is gratefully accepted. :-)

--
Beverly