Stripper Gold: Strippers DO Fuck Customers
LeModernCaveman
it (kind of like batting .450 in the minors in baseball would be), and since
Stripper Gold is "old new theory" (as opposed to being "new theory," I can now
share the key for men to understanding the strip clubs.
These rules are not all-inclusive, but they provide a foundation for the man
who wants to understand the clubs. Most of the rules are based on Foxhunting,
some on anti-player.
Here goes:
1. "There IS sex in the champagne room, but there is no admitting it." In
other words, if you are so clueless that you really believe a stripper wouldn't
fuck a customer, no stripper will correct your mistaken belief. Guys who hang
around strippers (or the customers who have fucked them) long enough know that
they can lay a stripper. If he can't lay her that's just because she's not
into getting laid, not that she's against getting laid by a customer. The fact
that you're a customer tends to be more of a plus than a minus because at least
you know what's going on in her life and understand her work. How much you
spend is not relevant to this.
2. "Go when the club is empty." Simple logic, right? In the big city, this
means going on Sunday afternoons in the summer, or early afternoons during the
week, and especially when the weather is REALLY bad (like pouring or a
snowstorm). At an empty club she's pretty much forgotten about money, and she
has time to spend. If you're the most appealing option, that time will be
spent on you.
3. "Check your cards." Meaning that each visit to a strip club is unique.
Make sure you know who is dancing and if you don't like what you see, LEAVE.
Same principle as for regular clubs. Stay on the days where you are dealt the
equivalent of a flush or higher.
4. "Treat them like zoo animals." I think of a strip club the way one would a
zoo, because the dancers are "trapped" there during their shifts, while I am
not. If I don't like what I see there, I can leave; she cannot.
5. Don't sweat the money. Spending money will only get you first priority for
her time, and you can do this by timing your visits so that very little money
(I mean like $10 or less) can make you the "big spender" in the club. If you
choose to spend a lot of money, keep in mind that a hooker only costs a few
hundred dollars, and keep further in mind that any type of "game" will get you
laid without having to fork over a cent. If you're wealthy and won't miss the
money, it's more efficient, but by no means is it necessary. Fact is the
dancers make tons of money and don't need yours.
6. Have a gimmick. The three major advantages of strip clubs are that 1) you
can leave anytime things aren't going your way; 2) they are loaded with
hotties; and 3) the hotties will be approaching you. This is like a chessgame
where you know what the first four moves will be. Demonstrating value should
be easy from here, and combine that with not being a sucker for money (this is
where underspending is helpful), and convincing her you can turn her on, and
you're set.
7. Visit no single club more than twice a month. Simple logic: absence makes
the heart grow fonder. Better results at less expense.
8. The "sports betting" routine. Want an easy way to seduce a stripper? Go
into the club around 3:00 p.m., when the first round of NFL games is winding
up. Find a game where the score is 35-3 or something. Walk into the club,
watch the game, ask a dancer nearby what the score is, and when she tells you,
act RELIEVED (not happy). Then let slip that you "bet a lot" on that game and
that you're glad you won (not celebrating too much makes it seem like it's a
regular occurrence). If you want to preserve your integrity and not lie, only
go in when games you actually bet fit this description.
9. Club pivots. Most clubs will have one or two dancers that you get along
with best. These are your club pivots. If you tip anyone well, tip them
first. Some of them will be happy to help your chances with other dancers,
especially if there is bisexuality involved (threesomes become popular).
10. Bring FOOD. Dancers often have to watch their diets excessively, or
sometimes they forget to eat during their shift. When I go into a club with a
large plate of ribs, the dancers on stage can smell it very clearly, and it
serves as an anchor of sorts. It also gives you a reason to be there whic will
impress them more. For the price of a few drinks and $1.00 tips, you can add
scenery to a takeout meal. Not a bad deal at all. This also can lead to
discussions of food in general, cooking, dinner dates, or, ideally, cooking for
her at her place (I have a good rib recipe for that purpose). Another
advantage of bringing food is that it absorbs alcohol, so you're less likely to
get so drunk you lose your judgment.
These are ten simple principles. There are many more, but this is a good start
for someone who wonders about strip clubs. I've left out a lot of tactics,
because it's just too complicated to explain, but maybe I'll publish something
more thorough on it someday. Right now I have a more important project
pressing my time, but felt like I should contribute some new theory to the
group here, and sparking an on-topic discussion.
J...@here.now
>These are ten simple principles. There are many more, but this is a good start
>for someone who wonders about strip clubs. I've left out a lot of tactics,
>because it's just too complicated to explain, but maybe I'll publish something
>more thorough on it someday. Right now I have a more important project
>pressing my time, but felt like I should contribute some new theory to the
>group here, and sparking an on-topic discussion.
I got a tactic for ya, grp-ie:
GO OUTSIDE & MEET REAL PEOPLE !!!!!
Shut off the monitor, put down yer, um, 'hellen'
and go out. Instead, everybody has to sing:
"..another Sat night and he ain't got no-bod-iee..
...he got no money and he can't get laid..
..so he haunts the Internet till his dollies go nite nite..
.......it sure sucks to be ray..."
JJT
James King
lemoder...@aol.com (LeModernCaveman) wrote:
> 4. "Treat them like zoo animals." I think of a strip club the way
> one would a zoo, because the dancers are "trapped" there during their
> shifts, while I am not. If I don't like what I see there, I can
> leave; she cannot.
Do you tell the dancers upfront that you intend to treat them like zoo
animals?
> 7. Visit no single club more than twice a month. Simple logic:
> absence makes the heart grow fonder. Better results at less expense.
No, in most cases absence makes the heart go wander.
> 8. The "sports betting" routine. Want an easy way to seduce a
> stripper? Go into the club around 3:00 p.m., when the first round of
> NFL games is winding up. Find a game where the score is 35-3 or
> something. Walk into the club, watch the game, ask a dancer nearby
> what the score is, and when she tells you, act RELIEVED (not happy).
> Then let slip that you "bet a lot" on that game and that you're glad
> you won (not celebrating too much makes it seem like it's a regular
> occurrence). If you want to preserve your integrity and not lie,
> only go in when games you actually bet fit this description.
> 10. Bring FOOD. Dancers often have to watch their diets
> excessively, or sometimes they forget to eat during their shift.
> When I go into a club with a large plate of ribs, the dancers on
> stage can smell it very clearly, and it serves as an anchor of sorts.
> It also gives you a reason to be there whic will impress them more.
The word is "which," mr-secretarial-genius.
> For the price of a few drinks and $1.00 tips, you can add scenery to
> a takeout meal. Not a bad deal at all. This also can lead to
> discussions of food in general, cooking, dinner dates, or, ideally,
> cooking for her at her place (I have a good rib recipe for that
> purpose).
One that's guaranteed to cause her to lose a few points on the CUPID
scale if she consumes it regularly, if it's the recipe you posted back
in 1999.
The nutritional numbers (especially the sodium) will vary depending on
the nutitional value of the barbecue sauce, but the numbers won't vary
much:
Ray's BBQ Spareribs, Per serving:
1429 calories
91.2 g. of fat (140% of daily value, assuming a 2000 calorie diet --
114% of daily value assuming a 2500 calorie diet.)
32.4 g. of saturated fat (162% of daily value)
266 mg. of cholesterol (89% of daily value)
868 mg. of sodium (36% of daily value)
91.5 g. of carbohydrates (30% of value)
2.1 g. of fiber
64.4 g. of protein (129% of daily value)
Vitamin A: 12%
Vitamin C: 15%
Calcium: 14%
Iron: 27%
So, in one dish you get your entire day's fat intake and saturated fat
taken care of, and get a head start on the next day's intake, and get
most of your daily dose of cholesterol without getting a lot of
nutrients or fiber. It clogs my arteries just thinking about it. At
least the sodium content's reasonable, and you do get more than a day's
worth of protein in the dish.
> Another advantage of bringing food is that it absorbs alcohol, so
> you're less likely to get so drunk you lose your judgment.
And most high-class strip clubs have restaurants in the club (with some
inexpensive special like a $6.95 filet mignon to attract customers),
and will simply not allow food into the club.
Although they may have made an exception for Gordon because he's
proudly admitted to handling club food while claiming to the dancers
that he hasn't taken a bath (to avoid having to pay for lap dances):
---BEGIN QUOTE---
>> Actually I find it's a good excuse for avoiding lapdances ("I smell,
>> I'd ruin your business"). Even if I don't.
>And if a dancer reported that to the manager or the bouncer, you'd be
>asked to leave and *never* return to our club.
Apparently not.....
>Having someone unclean nibbling on the food is disgusting.
Apparently not....
>Not to mention having someone unclean in the club just drags the vibe
>in the club way way down. Even if they're not and are just lying about
>it to avoid having to pay for dances.
Apparently not....
---END QUOTE---
Google link upon request.
When I used to work the door at strip clubs (before I was a DJ) I
certainly wouldn't allow a man who proudly claimed to have avoided
basic personal hygeine to enter a strip club. And I'd be sure to have
him escorted out as soon as he tried to contaminate the buffet food
with his filthy, germ-laden hands.
> These are ten simple principles. There are many more, but this is a
> good start for someone who wonders about strip clubs. I've left out
> a lot of tactics, because it's just too complicated to explain, but
> maybe I'll publish something more thorough on it someday. Right now
> I have a more important project pressing my time, but felt like I
> should contribute some new theory to the group here, and sparking an
> on-topic discussion.
So, according to you, your Yahoo! group has now reached the 100,000
membership level. Or are you the type of person who never intends on
keeping any promises or vows you make?
James King
--
Old Time Radio lives on
at http://www.shadowradio.org
LeModernCaveman
>> one would a zoo, because the dancers are "trapped" there during their
>> shifts, while I am not. If I don't like what I see there, I can
>> leave; she cannot.
>
>Do you tell the dancers upfront that you intend to treat them like zoo
>animals?
Yep. They often bond with me because I understand that they feel trapped at
work.
Makes for excellent roleplay too!
>> 7. Visit no single club more than twice a month. Simple logic:
>> absence makes the heart grow fonder. Better results at less expense.
>
>No, in most cases absence makes the heart go wander.
Strippers are like fast-moving insects. No need to chase them. Being the 53rd
guy they sleep with instead of the 50th really doesn't matter much.
>> 8. The "sports betting" routine. Want an easy way to seduce a
>> stripper? Go into the club around 3:00 p.m., when the first round of
>> NFL games is winding up. Find a game where the score is 35-3 or
>> something. Walk into the club, watch the game, ask a dancer nearby
>> what the score is, and when she tells you, act RELIEVED (not happy).
>> Then let slip that you "bet a lot" on that game and that you're glad
>> you won (not celebrating too much makes it seem like it's a regular
>> occurrence). If you want to preserve your integrity and not lie,
>> only go in when games you actually bet fit this description.
>
>> 10. Bring FOOD. Dancers often have to watch their diets
>> excessively, or sometimes they forget to eat during their shift.
>> When I go into a club with a large plate of ribs, the dancers on
>> stage can smell it very clearly, and it serves as an anchor of sorts.
>> It also gives you a reason to be there whic will impress them more.
>
>The word is "which," mr-secretarial-genius.
USENET doesn't pay secretaries very well, sadly.
>> For the price of a few drinks and $1.00 tips, you can add scenery to
>> a takeout meal. Not a bad deal at all. This also can lead to
>> discussions of food in general, cooking, dinner dates, or, ideally,
>> cooking for her at her place (I have a good rib recipe for that
>> purpose).
>
>One that's guaranteed to cause her to lose a few points on the CUPID
>scale if she consumes it regularly, if it's the recipe you posted back
>in 1999.
I have a better one now. Can make them on a stovetop in 90 minutes or less.
>The nutritional numbers (especially the sodium) will vary depending on
>the nutitional value of the barbecue sauce, but the numbers won't vary
>much:
She can dance off the calories. For me. In private. While the ribs are
cooking. Takes them about as long as a fuck anyway.
Lizex-...@home.noorg
says...
>
>I actually stopped hitting up the strip clubs because I got too successful with
>it (kind of like batting .450 in the minors in baseball would be), and since
>Stripper Gold is "old new theory" (as opposed to being "new theory," I can now
>share the key for men to understanding the strip clubs.
I haven't visited this newsgroup in weeks and weeks, I've just been too busy,
but what do I find? Ray, are you a comedian? Seriously! You've missed your
calling.
>These rules are not all-inclusive, but they provide a foundation for the man
>who wants to understand the clubs. Most of the rules are based on Foxhunting,
>some on anti-player.
>
>Here goes:
>
>1. "There IS sex in the champagne room, but there is no admitting it." In
>other words, if you are so clueless that you really believe a stripper wouldn't
>fuck a customer, no stripper will correct your mistaken belief. Guys who hang
>around strippers (or the customers who have fucked them) long enough know that
>they can lay a stripper. If he can't lay her that's just because she's not
>into getting laid, not that she's against getting laid by a customer. The fact
>that you're a customer tends to be more of a plus than a minus because at least
>you know what's going on in her life and understand her work. How much you
>spend is not relevant to this.
Again, Ray, many clubs have RULES against making arrangements, on club time, for
dates with the customers. It has to do with the suspicion of prostitution. I was
told in the beginning that if I made a date with a client, on the premises, I'd
be fired immediately. And I didn't want to get fired - the money was just too
good.
>2. "Go when the club is empty." Simple logic, right? In the big city, this
>means going on Sunday afternoons in the summer, or early afternoons during the
>week, and especially when the weather is REALLY bad (like pouring or a
>snowstorm). At an empty club she's pretty much forgotten about money, and she
>has time to spend. If you're the most appealing option, that time will be
>spent on you.
We weren't even open in the morning.
>3. "Check your cards." Meaning that each visit to a strip club is unique.
>Make sure you know who is dancing and if you don't like what you see, LEAVE.
>Same principle as for regular clubs. Stay on the days where you are dealt the
>equivalent of a flush or higher.
Cryptic.
>4. "Treat them like zoo animals." I think of a strip club the way one would a
>zoo, because the dancers are "trapped" there during their shifts, while I am
>not. If I don't like what I see there, I can leave; she cannot.
Oh that's REALLY GUARANTEED TO WORK! NOT!
>5. Don't sweat the money. Spending money will only get you first priority for
>her time, and you can do this by timing your visits so that very little money
>(I mean like $10 or less) can make you the "big spender" in the club.
LMAO!
> If you
>choose to spend a lot of money, keep in mind that a hooker only costs a few
>hundred dollars, and keep further in mind that any type of "game" will get you
>laid without having to fork over a cent. If you're wealthy and won't miss the
>money, it's more efficient, but by no means is it necessary. Fact is the
>dancers make tons of money and don't need yours.
And when you're in a strip club, you're on her time clock. No spend, no time.
>6. Have a gimmick. The three major advantages of strip clubs are that 1) you
>can leave anytime things aren't going your way; 2) they are loaded with
>hotties; and 3) the hotties will be approaching you. This is like a chessgame
>where you know what the first four moves will be. Demonstrating value should
>be easy from here, and combine that with not being a sucker for money (this is
>where underspending is helpful), and convincing her you can turn her on, and
>you're set.
All I can say is you better be one physically impressive guy, with big fat
bucks, to make that advice work for you. From a dancer's point of view, one of
the side effects of working in a club is you become much more difficult to
"impress."
>7. Visit no single club more than twice a month. Simple logic: absence makes
>the heart grow fonder. Better results at less expense.
Oh Jesus Ray! Do you think that 99% of the dancers can remember a face they see
in the crowd for even a week? Maybe if you're Heath Ledger!
>8. The "sports betting" routine. Want an easy way to seduce a stripper? Go
>into the club around 3:00 p.m., when the first round of NFL games is winding
>up. Find a game where the score is 35-3 or something. Walk into the club,
>watch the game, ask a dancer nearby what the score is, and when she tells you,
>act RELIEVED (not happy). Then let slip that you "bet a lot" on that game and
>that you're glad you won (not celebrating too much makes it seem like it's a
>regular occurrence). If you want to preserve your integrity and not lie, only
>go in when games you actually bet fit this description.
That may impress some but it would have been a major turn-off for me. I worked
as a dancer for one reason and one reason only - to pay for my education. I
worked in Vegas and honey, I've seen what gambling does to people. No gamblers
for me - ever!
>9. Club pivots. Most clubs will have one or two dancers that you get along
>with best. These are your club pivots. If you tip anyone well, tip them
>first. Some of them will be happy to help your chances with other dancers,
>especially if there is bisexuality involved (threesomes become popular).
I have no idea where this one is coming from!
>10. Bring FOOD. Dancers often have to watch their diets excessively, or
>sometimes they forget to eat during their shift. When I go into a club with a
>large plate of ribs, the dancers on stage can smell it very clearly, and it
>serves as an anchor of sorts. It also gives you a reason to be there whic will
>impress them more. For the price of a few drinks and $1.00 tips, you can add
>scenery to a takeout meal. Not a bad deal at all. This also can lead to
>discussions of food in general, cooking, dinner dates, or, ideally, cooking for
>her at her place (I have a good rib recipe for that purpose). Another
>advantage of bringing food is that it absorbs alcohol, so you're less likely to
>get so drunk you lose your judgment.
Maybe in New Jersey sweety, but not in Vegas. You're not going to get past the
two ex-NFL linemen at the door with a plate full of ribs or prawns or any other
food-stuffs. Ray, it isn't going to happen in a quality club!
>These are ten simple principles. There are many more, but this is a good start
>for someone who wonders about strip clubs. I've left out a lot of tactics,
>because it's just too complicated to explain, but maybe I'll publish something
>more thorough on it someday. Right now I have a more important project
>pressing my time, but felt like I should contribute some new theory to the
>group here, and sparking an on-topic discussion.
I'll say this again, just for the sake of discussion. If some guy out there
really wants to date a girl who works in a dance club, find out which clubs the
dancers go to themselves when they are not working. (Which is generally NOT
another dance club.) The girls who "go out" are generally much more approachable
AWAY from their club and when they are out partying. I knew lots of girls who
were totally professional at the club, and crazy party animals away from it. Not
me, I had homework and had a completely separate social life. Little Miss Goody
2-Shoes. When I DID go out afterwards, me and a couple of the other "college
girls" would get back into our ordinary street clothes and drop by a little
"Irish Pub" and shoot darts and play pool regular people.
Got to run - have to get fixed up for church. You really want to meet a
"quality" person? Try church. No kidding! I started attending the Episcopal
Church a few months back and joined their choir. (Episcopal because they are
liberal-minded, not crazy fundamentalists, and tend to be more financially
prosperous.) I'm working on a "hot" prospect. A handsome neurosurgeon.
So Ray - when are we going to get "Church Gold?"
Bye!
Eliz
User3247
> 1. "There IS sex in the champagne room, but there is no admitting
> it." In other words, if you are so clueless that you really believe a
> stripper wouldn't fuck a customer, no stripper will correct your
> mistaken belief. Guys who hang around strippers (or the customers who
> have fucked them) long enough know that they can lay a stripper. If
> he can't lay her that's just because she's not into getting laid, not
> that she's against getting laid by a customer. The fact that you're a
> customer tends to be more of a plus than a minus because at least you
> know what's going on in her life and understand her work. How much
> you spend is not relevant to this.
>
Gordon, do you expect us to believe that you REALLY think that when you
buy a stripper a bottle of champagne that you're really paying for a
BOTTLE OF CHAMPAGNE? You can't REALLY be that stupid, can you? Let's
point out your moronic claims in this statement:
"There IS sex in the champagne room, but there is no admitting
it." -- That's because it's called PROSTITUTION, and it's illegal, idiot.
"In other words, if you are so clueless that you really believe a
stripper wouldn't fuck a customer, no stripper will correct your
mistaken belief." -- That is because of the laws when cops try to bust
prostitues. If a john is an undercover top and first mentions something
about sex in the 'champagne room', then it is entrapment. 'Strippers'
(prostitutes) know this so keep their traps shut until the customer
mentions it. Duh.
"Guys who hang around strippers (or the customers who
have fucked them) long enough know that they can lay a stripper." -- Most
people with an IQ of over 60 know that they can lay a stripper, if the
strip club has a 'champagne room'. That's because the strip club is
actually a whorehouse, fronting as a strip club. Are you really this
dense?
"If he can't lay her that's just because she's not into getting laid,
not that she's against getting laid by a customer." -- If he can't lay
her, then it's because he can't afford the 'bottle of champagne', or he's
REALLY gross. It has nothing to do with whether or not the 'stripper' is
'into getting laid', because it's her job. It provides her income. And in
a lot of cases, it keeps her in drugs, or keeps her from being beat up by
her pimp.
"The fact that you're a customer tends to be more of a plus than
a minus because at least you know what's going on in her life and
understand her work." -- Unless you're as stupid as you, Gordon, and
actually think that it's your 'stripper gold' theory that gets her to
agree to join you in the 'champagne room'. The rest of us with more than
a smidgen of intelligence KNOW that her life is PROSTITUTION, and
understand that her work is SELLING PUSSY to losers like you!
"How much you spend is not relevant to this." -- As long as it's enough
to buy a 'bottle of champagne' <snicker>.
I'm sorry, Gordon, I underestimated you. I never would have imagined that
you were REALLY that stupid.
User3247
> She can dance off the calories. For me. In private. While the ribs are
> cooking. Takes them about as long as a fuck anyway.
You found a way to cook barbecued ribs in 30 seconds?
J...@here.now
>>Do you tell the dancers upfront that you intend to treat them like zoo
>>animals?
>Yep. They often bond with me because I understand that they feel trapped at
>work.
>
>Makes for excellent roleplay too!
Like when you play Noah's Ark with your dollies?
>Strippers are like fast-moving insects. No need to chase them. Being the 53rd
>guy they sleep with instead of the 50th really doesn't matter much.
Yeah, since maybe #48 had herpes?
>>> 10. Bring FOOD. Dancers often have to watch their diets
>>> excessively, or sometimes they forget to eat during their shift.
>>> When I go into a club with a large plate of ribs, the dancers on
>>> stage can smell it very clearly, and it serves as an anchor of sorts.
>>> It also gives you a reason to be there whic will impress them more.
But what happens when they ask you for some, and (like you
told us before) you refuse to give them some? Cheap bastard..
>>The word is "which," mr-secretarial-genius.
>
>USENET doesn't pay secretaries very well, sadly.
Which may explain why you are not making any $$$...
>>> For the price of a few drinks and $1.00 tips, you can add scenery to
>>> a takeout meal. Not a bad deal at all. This also can lead to
>>> discussions of food in general, cooking, dinner dates, or, ideally,
>>> cooking for her at her place (I have a good rib recipe for that
>>> purpose).
Lets see..you tip $1 on drinks, eat while watching the show, refuse
to give the ladies any food, and NOW you think they will flock to you
for cooking tips and an invite to their place? What u smokin, grp-ie?
>>One that's guaranteed to cause her to lose a few points on the CUPID
>>scale if she consumes it regularly, if it's the recipe you posted back
>>in 1999.
>
>I have a better one now. Can make them on a stovetop in 90 minutes or less.
'stove top' ribs?
>>The nutritional numbers (especially the sodium) will vary depending on
>>the nutitional value of the barbecue sauce, but the numbers won't vary
>>much:
bottled BBQ sauce? yeech....
>She can dance off the calories. For me. In private. While the ribs are
>cooking. Takes them about as long as a fuck anyway.
wow..some fantasy ya got there, grp-ie.
I bet it makes ya, um, 'hellen' happy...
JJT
Mr Nifty
Here's a woman Ray. Thats right, HERE. Arn't you going to going to respond
to her and show her the error of her ways?
<Lizex-...@home.noorg> wrote in message
news:Rf%8b.20093$cJ5....@www.newsranger.com...
LeModernCaveman
>with
>>it (kind of like batting .450 in the minors in baseball would be), and since
>>Stripper Gold is "old new theory" (as opposed to being "new theory," I can
>now
>>share the key for men to understanding the strip clubs.
>
>I haven't visited this newsgroup in weeks and weeks,
Yet you show up here at JUST the right time!
>I've just been too busy,
>but what do I find? Ray, are you a comedian? Seriously! You've missed your
>calling.
Nothing like a female in narcissistic putdown mode.
>>1. "There IS sex in the champagne room, but there is no admitting it." In
>>other words, if you are so clueless that you really believe a stripper
>wouldn't
>>fuck a customer, no stripper will correct your mistaken belief. Guys who
>hang
>>around strippers (or the customers who have fucked them) long enough know
>that
>>they can lay a stripper. If he can't lay her that's just because she's not
>>into getting laid, not that she's against getting laid by a customer. The
>fact
>>that you're a customer tends to be more of a plus than a minus because at
>least
>>you know what's going on in her life and understand her work. How much you
>>spend is not relevant to this.
>
>Again, Ray, many clubs have RULES against making arrangements, on club time,
>for
>dates with the customers. It has to do with the suspicion of prostitution. I
>was
>told in the beginning that if I made a date with a client, on the premises,
>I'd
>be fired immediately. And I didn't want to get fired - the money was just too
>good.
As I said, "there is no admitting it." It's also not prostitution if the sex
is voluntary. I also didn't mean to imply that money had to change hands.
>>2. "Go when the club is empty." Simple logic, right? In the big city,
>this
>>means going on Sunday afternoons in the summer, or early afternoons during
>the
>>week, and especially when the weather is REALLY bad (like pouring or a
>>snowstorm). At an empty club she's pretty much forgotten about money, and
>she
>>has time to spend. If you're the most appealing option, that time will be
>>spent on you.
>
>We weren't even open in the morning.
Some clubs open at 11:00 around here and stay open until 2:00.
>>3. "Check your cards." Meaning that each visit to a strip club is unique.
>>Make sure you know who is dancing and if you don't like what you see, LEAVE.
>
>>Same principle as for regular clubs. Stay on the days where you are dealt
>the
>>equivalent of a flush or higher.
>
>Cryptic.
Surveying one's environment is cryptic?
>>4. "Treat them like zoo animals." I think of a strip club the way one
>would a
>>zoo, because the dancers are "trapped" there during their shifts, while I am
>>not. If I don't like what I see there, I can leave; she cannot.
>
>Oh that's REALLY GUARANTEED TO WORK! NOT!
Actually it gives a man the confidence to deal with the dancers as inferior to
him. His ability to walk away, and his not needing CSM (Contacts With Strange
Men) to earn a living also make him superior.
>>5. Don't sweat the money. Spending money will only get you first priority
>for
>>her time, and you can do this by timing your visits so that very little
>money
>>(I mean like $10 or less) can make you the "big spender" in the club.
>
>LMAO!
Not denying a thing I'm saying, of course.
>> If you
>>choose to spend a lot of money, keep in mind that a hooker only costs a few
>>hundred dollars, and keep further in mind that any type of "game" will get
>you
>>laid without having to fork over a cent. If you're wealthy and won't miss
>the
>>money, it's more efficient, but by no means is it necessary. Fact is the
>>dancers make tons of money and don't need yours.
>
>And when you're in a strip club, you're on her time clock. No spend, no time.
Wrong. Dancers make tons of money as it is. If they LIKE you, they are not
going to let money stop them. There are many PUA who post here and in other
places about how this works.
>>6. Have a gimmick. The three major advantages of strip clubs are that 1)
>you
>>can leave anytime things aren't going your way; 2) they are loaded with
>>hotties; and 3) the hotties will be approaching you. This is like a
>chessgame
>>where you know what the first four moves will be. Demonstrating value
>should
>>be easy from here, and combine that with not being a sucker for money (this
>is
>>where underspending is helpful), and convincing her you can turn her on, and
>>you're set.
>
>All I can say is you better be one physically impressive guy, with big fat
>bucks, to make that advice work for you. From a dancer's point of view, one
>of
>the side effects of working in a club is you become much more difficult to
>"impress."
You mean you THINK that's the case. It's also not the case for every dancer.
>>7. Visit no single club more than twice a month. Simple logic: absence
>makes
>>the heart grow fonder. Better results at less expense.
>
>Oh Jesus Ray! Do you think that 99% of the dancers can remember a face they
>see
>in the crowd for even a week? Maybe if you're Heath Ledger!
Most tend to be pretty good at that, but if the PUA demonstrates value, he'll
definitely be remembered, as will the frequency with which he visits.
>>8. The "sports betting" routine. Want an easy way to seduce a stripper?
>Go
>>into the club around 3:00 p.m., when the first round of NFL games is winding
>>up. Find a game where the score is 35-3 or something. Walk into the club,
>>watch the game, ask a dancer nearby what the score is, and when she tells
>you,
>>act RELIEVED (not happy). Then let slip that you "bet a lot" on that game
>and
>>that you're glad you won (not celebrating too much makes it seem like it's a
>>regular occurrence). If you want to preserve your integrity and not lie,
>only
>>go in when games you actually bet fit this description.
>
>That may impress some
Thanks for playing.
>but it would have been a major turn-off for me. I
>worked
>as a dancer for one reason and one reason only - to pay for my education. I
>worked in Vegas and honey, I've seen what gambling does to people. No
>gamblers
>for me - ever!
Does that include Billy Walters or his crew? If you ever danced in Vegas you
would know who that man is.
Of course, in Vegas, most REAL dancers there have access to all kinds of inside
info. There are more per-capita professional gamblers in Vegas than anywhere
in the United States.
Not only that, there are women there who look for guys who just made a big hit.
Your words (nor your timing) pass the "smell test" here.
>>9. Club pivots. Most clubs will have one or two dancers that you get along
>>with best. These are your club pivots. If you tip anyone well, tip them
>>first. Some of them will be happy to help your chances with other dancers,
>>especially if there is bisexuality involved (threesomes become popular).
>
>I have no idea where this one is coming from!
Deflection.
A club pivot is a dancer at the club who is your FRIEND. One is all it takes
for the rest of the club to have more respect for you.
>>10. Bring FOOD. Dancers often have to watch their diets excessively, or
>>sometimes they forget to eat during their shift. When I go into a club with
>a
>>large plate of ribs, the dancers on stage can smell it very clearly, and it
>>serves as an anchor of sorts. It also gives you a reason to be there whic
>will
>>impress them more. For the price of a few drinks and $1.00 tips, you can
>add
>>scenery to a takeout meal. Not a bad deal at all. This also can lead to
>>discussions of food in general, cooking, dinner dates, or, ideally, cooking
>for
>>her at her place (I have a good rib recipe for that purpose). Another
>>advantage of bringing food is that it absorbs alcohol, so you're less likely
>to
>>get so drunk you lose your judgment.
>
>Maybe in New Jersey sweety, but not in Vegas. You're not going to get past
>the
>two ex-NFL linemen at the door with a plate full of ribs or prawns or any
>other
>food-stuffs. Ray, it isn't going to happen in a quality club!
I mentioned clubs that don't serve food.
As for the ex-lineman at the door, they are very easy to become friends with.
>>These are ten simple principles. There are many more, but this is a good
>start
>>for someone who wonders about strip clubs. I've left out a lot of tactics,
>>because it's just too complicated to explain, but maybe I'll publish
>something
>>more thorough on it someday. Right now I have a more important project
>>pressing my time, but felt like I should contribute some new theory to the
>>group here, and sparking an on-topic discussion.
>
>I'll say this again, just for the sake of discussion. If some guy out there
>really wants to date a girl who works in a dance club, find out which clubs
>the
>dancers go to themselves when they are not working. (Which is generally NOT
>another dance club.) The girls who "go out" are generally much more
>approachable
>AWAY from their club and when they are out partying. I knew lots of girls who
>were totally professional at the club, and crazy party animals away from it.
The problem with your theory there is that the PUA would go to the regular
clubs anyway. The idea is to avoid the need for that.
Most strippers stand out in regular clubs because they are still too receptive
to being approached for that environment.
>Not
>me, I had homework and had a completely separate social life. Little Miss
>Goody
>2-Shoes.
Who sells her body to coporate America and thinks she's respectable.
You should see the evidence I've been gathering against several corporate types
(and employment agencies) by going online as a sexy female administrative
assistant who is looking for a job.
Apparently, women don't mind being sex objects if the price is right, and if
the boss looks but does not touch.
>When I DID go out afterwards, me and a couple of the other "college
>girls" would get back into our ordinary street clothes and drop by a little
>"Irish Pub" and shoot darts and play pool regular people.
A player can go to a pub when three hotties happen to be there.
>Got to run - have to get fixed up for church. You really want to meet a
>"quality" person? Try church. No kidding!
Bible chicks are phony. Not my speed.
>I started attending the Episcopal
>Church a few months back and joined their choir. (Episcopal because they are
>liberal-minded, not crazy fundamentalists, and tend to be more financially
>prosperous.)
You chose a church because its members are more "financially prosperous")?
>I'm working on a "hot" prospect. A handsome neurosurgeon.
In other words, you are golddigging. Guys like that generally don't have to
settle for ex-strippers or corporate eye candy.
Of course, if I ever become a millionaire publisher or porn producer, I'll be
the "hot prospect" even to you or your golddigging friends. How amusing that
you have such a price tag, and how pathetic for the neurosurgoen that he has to
dig from that dumpster.
Now let's ask how much "work" this neurosurgeon had to do to win you over.
Hmm...NONE! You sought out a place where you believe rich men congregate, and
selected him from the crowd.
So much for having to win her over. Guess that rule doesn't apply if the guy
has enough money.
>So Ray - when are we going to get "Church Gold?"
I think you need to talk to the preacherman who is fucking a preacher's
daughter and claiming that under scripture it's not even a sin.
Sounds more like you and your surgeon target are proving that there is a sexual
food chain, and he's two notches below you on it.
Mr Nifty
LeModernCaveman <lemoder...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030914162406...@mb-m25.aol.com...
Poor 'ol Ray.
Are you jealous that NO ONE is golddigging you?
Are you jealous that NO ONE is minddigging you?
Are you jealous that NO ONE at all wants you?
Time to leave mommies apartment.
The years are flying by so quickly ain't they.
Soon you'll be 40.
And soon after that you'll be 50.
Poor 'ol Ray.
J...@here.now
>(and employment agencies) by going online as a sexy female administrative
>assistant who is looking for a job.
Like the last time you did that, to get at some fool
lawyer, and it upset you so much you wanted to kill
yourself? Did your dollies talk you out of it..?
Let's see now, you spend all night Sat staying home alone
pretending to be a woman online, or threatening minors
in chatrooms, and playing with yer, um, 'hellen' THEN
you expect others to believe you are a seduction wizard?
It does suck to be you, Gordon Roy Parker..
On or off line...
JJT
Odious
LeModernCaveman wrote:
>
You gotta love how this loser tries to play off the fact he spends all
his free time in strip clubs where girls have to be paid to even
acknowledge he exists, as if it is some kind of indication of how
successful he is with women.
Anybody who actually knows any strippers can tell you they have a word
for idiots like ray, and it is "mark."
And sure it is possible that the kind of skank factory that would be open
on a sunday at noon and would let you bring food in, might have the kind
of drug addicted head case who would fuck a guy like ray if he pretends
he has money... afterall he did pick up that raging case of herpes
somehow.
But just the fact that ray's life is such a bucket of shit that he would
brag... yes BRAG about going to low grade strip clubs to pick up on
skanks, and even then he has to literally bait them with food and lie to
them to get the time of day, proves that everything people have been
saying about ray being a pitiful fraud is clearly true.
J...@here.now
>You gotta love how this loser tries to play off the fact he spends all
>his free time in strip clubs where girls have to be paid to even
>acknowledge he exists, as if it is some kind of indication of how
>successful he is with women.
But they like him..they really really like him...
He's cheap with money, won't share food, treats the ladies
like animals, and claims NOT bathing is a good thing.
>Anybody who actually knows any strippers can tell you they have a word
>for idiots like ray, and it is "mark."
ie: sucker, rube, loser, cash source..oh wait, not C/S (in grp-ie's case)
>And sure it is possible that the kind of skank factory that would be open
>on a sunday at noon and would let you bring food in, might have the kind
>of drug addicted head case who would fuck a guy like ray if he pretends
>he has money... afterall he did pick up that raging case of herpes
>somehow.
In the old days, in Boston, I played keyboards for the girls, right
around the time canned music started. There were 3 levels of
clubs. The girls all wanted the 'A' level, settled for the 'B' level
if they had to, but would go out of town before resorting to "C"
because the level of cheap bastards who went there, looking for
free things, trying to get away with spending the less. They also
were (more then not) mostly unwashed, unemployed, losers anyway.
Can we see a pattern there with grp-ie?
>But just the fact that ray's life is such a bucket of shit that he would
>brag... yes BRAG about going to low grade strip clubs to pick up on
>skanks, and even then he has to literally bait them with food and lie to
>them to get the time of day, proves that everything people have been
>saying about ray being a pitiful fraud is clearly true.
His, um, 'hellen' blows dogs for loose change. That means one
will do ANYTHING for money. grp-ie will aim as low as he has to
make his own fantasy land ('ray-ality') work for him. IF that means
bragging about doing the above, so be it. If it means he needs to lie,
to threaten, to insult, to wet his Under-Roos, whatever to make his world
right IN HIS EYES..he does it. Reality doesn't matter.
Gordon Roy Parker cannot be 'grp-ie' in the real world..
and he HAS (!!!) to be grp-ie... It is his sickness..
JJT
Trainspotter
As someone who has dated strippers in the past, I think there is an
important bit of advice to pass on to any guy who wants to do it
now....DON'T. I'm speaking to the guy who is open to a more serious
relationship, not just looking for a one nighter.
The vast majority of strippers seem to have a black cloud following
them, and you will get sucked in if you allow it. The real tragedy is
getting involved with a stripper who is actually a pretty nice person
(they do exist, believe it or not!) and having to be around to watch
as this persons life collapses in front of your very eyes. And you
can't help her either, because she is just too damned screwed up.
Anyone who plays knight in shining armor with these girls is in for
trouble (a buddy of mine married one...trust me on this).
Of course, I would still date a dancer that really had her act
together and was relationship material. I don't hold being a dancer
against a girl per se...I've just found that the overwhelming majority
of dancers aren't relationship material. I doubt more than five
percent are "quality", and perhaps much less. But I would also say
that if I met a girl who was a dancer AND quality, that might even be
a plus for me.
By the way, I had the advantage of having a number of dancer friends
(people I grew up with, and therefore had known for many years). I got
the inside scoop on a lot of things that most customers wouldn't get.
Anyway, point is that I do somewhat know of what I speak here.
I should also note that I am talking about mostly mid-level clubs, not
the high dollar Gold Club (or whatever they are called). The clubs
around here range from mid-level (pretty nice, but not overly
ostentatious) to a couple of holes in the wall. But most are pretty
decent. If the ex-Vegas dancer is reading this, I'm not talking about
the sorts of clubs you appeared to dance at. I live in a mid-sized
city (total metropolitan area still a bit under a million) and it just
doesn't support clubs of that nature. I've visited some of those clubs
when out of town, and I suspect it would be hard to accomplish much in
them. It is too structured and too showy. The girls seem to be really
putting on a SHOW, as opposed to just a fairly regular girl who dances
a few sets and that's it. At the higher end clubs it seems to be all
about the money, whereas at the mid-levels the girl dances...and then
just hangs out between sets.
In any event, I think most of what you are saying is more or less true
for the guy who wants to date a stripper and not spend much money
doing it. Of course, some of your ideas are inapplicable in my area
(the food suggestion...as all bars here are also restaurants that
wouldn't allow food in), or are things that I just don't do (gimmicks,
or the betting thing).
But really, I think it just boils down to going during the clubs
really slow periods, being interesting and funny, not being a miser
but at the same time being conservative with the money, and just
interact like human beings (DON'T act like a dazed and confused
customer). Be someone that she enjoys hanging out with between sets.
The pivot idea is good, but in my experience for somewhat different
reasons than you suggest. For instance, I had ready made pivots at
some of the clubs...and it was definitely a help in dating girls. But
frankly, I could pluck strippers from the clubs that I had no contacts
in at all. The real advantage of having friends on the inside is not
so much for actually GETTING a date with a dancer (though it helps),
but more in getting the inside information on what's going on at the
club. You learn who the scammers are, who's got the crack problem,
who's got the crazy boyfriend...and who the decent one's are. Once you
know this stuff, your job has literally become ten times easier, as
well as ten times less expensive. The truth is that out of every
twenty dancers, there MIGHT be one or two viable, quality
possibilities. Once you know who they are...that's half the battle
right there.
Lizex-...@home.noorg
says...
>
>>>I actually stopped hitting up the strip clubs because I got too successful
>>with
>>>it (kind of like batting .450 in the minors in baseball would be), and since
>>>Stripper Gold is "old new theory" (as opposed to being "new theory," I can
>>now
>>>share the key for men to understanding the strip clubs.
>>
>>I haven't visited this newsgroup in weeks and weeks,
>
>Yet you show up here at JUST the right time!
Coincidence. (smile)
>>I've just been too busy,
>>but what do I find? Ray, are you a comedian? Seriously! You've missed your
>>calling.
>
>Nothing like a female in narcissistic putdown mode.
Because much of what you say is funny.
>>Again, Ray, many clubs have RULES against making arrangements, on club time,
>>for
>>dates with the customers. It has to do with the suspicion of prostitution. I
>>was
>>told in the beginning that if I made a date with a client, on the premises,
>>I'd
>>be fired immediately. And I didn't want to get fired - the money was just too
>>good.
>
>As I said, "there is no admitting it." It's also not prostitution if the sex
>is voluntary. I also didn't mean to imply that money had to change hands.
It's the appearance of anything that crosses the line on club premises. Club
owners don't want the hassle.
>>>3. "Check your cards." Meaning that each visit to a strip club is unique.
>>>Make sure you know who is dancing and if you don't like what you see, LEAVE.
>>
>>>Same principle as for regular clubs. Stay on the days where you are dealt
>>the
>>>equivalent of a flush or higher.
>>
>>Cryptic.
>
>Surveying one's environment is cryptic?
Gambler jargon.
>>>4. "Treat them like zoo animals." I think of a strip club the way one
>>would a
>>>zoo, because the dancers are "trapped" there during their shifts, while I am
>>>not. If I don't like what I see there, I can leave; she cannot.
>>
>>Oh that's REALLY GUARANTEED TO WORK! NOT!
>
>Actually it gives a man the confidence to deal with the dancers as inferior to
>him. His ability to walk away, and his not needing CSM (Contacts With Strange
>Men) to earn a living also make him superior.
That is a very weird perspective. A very unattractive attitude. Says more about
the person who has to play those games.
>>>5. Don't sweat the money. Spending money will only get you first priority
>>for
>>>her time, and you can do this by timing your visits so that very little
>>money
>>>(I mean like $10 or less) can make you the "big spender" in the club.
>>
>>LMAO!
>
>Not denying a thing I'm saying, of course.
Your statement is extremely naive. But who knows, maybe it does work with some
beat up old crank whores.
>>> If you
>>>choose to spend a lot of money, keep in mind that a hooker only costs a few
>>>hundred dollars, and keep further in mind that any type of "game" will get
>>you
>>>laid without having to fork over a cent. If you're wealthy and won't miss
>>the
>>>money, it's more efficient, but by no means is it necessary. Fact is the
>>>dancers make tons of money and don't need yours.
>>
>>And when you're in a strip club, you're on her time clock. No spend, no time.
>
>Wrong. Dancers make tons of money as it is. If they LIKE you, they are not
>going to let money stop them. There are many PUA who post here and in other
>places about how this works.
Sure sweety. You're going to walk into the club, waving a ten in one hand and a
greasy spare rib in the other, treat the girls like zoo animals, and the are
just going to fall in love with you, right?
>>>6. Have a gimmick. The three major advantages of strip clubs are that 1)
>>you
>>>can leave anytime things aren't going your way; 2) they are loaded with
>>>hotties; and 3) the hotties will be approaching you. This is like a
>>chessgame
>>>where you know what the first four moves will be. Demonstrating value
>>should
>>>be easy from here, and combine that with not being a sucker for money (this
>>is
>>>where underspending is helpful), and convincing her you can turn her on, and
>>>you're set.
>>
>>All I can say is you better be one physically impressive guy, with big fat
>>bucks, to make that advice work for you. From a dancer's point of view, one
>>of
>>the side effects of working in a club is you become much more difficult to
>>"impress."
>
>You mean you THINK that's the case. It's also not the case for every dancer.
The "pros" are quite often very jaded because of the life they've lived. A great
many of the young women I worked with came from really bad backgrounds. Really
fucked up family situations. Many have seen the worst side of men for far too
long to be easily impressed. This wasn't the case with me. I came to it from a
dance background. I've been in dance classes since I was four years old. It was
simple economics.
>>>7. Visit no single club more than twice a month. Simple logic: absence
>>makes
>>>the heart grow fonder. Better results at less expense.
>>
>>Oh Jesus Ray! Do you think that 99% of the dancers can remember a face they
>>see
>>in the crowd for even a week? Maybe if you're Heath Ledger!
>
>Most tend to be pretty good at that, but if the PUA demonstrates value, he'll
>definitely be remembered, as will the frequency with which he visits.
And demonstrating "value", to a dancer, means forking over the cash!
>>>8. The "sports betting" routine.
>>That may impress some
>
>Thanks for playing.
I don't gamble. Other than dumping a few quarters in the slots occasionally, I
wasn't in to it. Well, now, once a month I buy a $1 quick pick.
>>but it would have been a major turn-off for me. I
>>worked
>>as a dancer for one reason and one reason only - to pay for my education. I
>>worked in Vegas and honey, I've seen what gambling does to people. No
>>gamblers
>>for me - ever!
>
>Does that include Billy Walters or his crew? If you ever danced in Vegas you
>would know who that man is.
The name is familiar. But I am not a gambling groupie.
>Of course, in Vegas, most REAL dancers there have access to all kinds of inside
>info.
If they hang out with gamblers maybe. I don't like the type. There is something
sleazy about "the gambler" types. And they are not usually very physically fit.
I was then and am now a total fitness nut.
>There are more per-capita professional gamblers in Vegas than anywhere
>in the United States.
And like I have said, I've seen what gambling has done to people. It's an ugly
lifestyle.
>Not only that, there are women there who look for guys who just made a big hit.
> Your words (nor your timing) pass the "smell test" here.
We've been down this road before. If someone disagrees with you, you go off on
them.
>>>9. Club pivots. Most clubs will have one or two dancers that you get along
>>>with best. These are your club pivots. If you tip anyone well, tip them
>>>first. Some of them will be happy to help your chances with other dancers,
>>>especially if there is bisexuality involved (threesomes become popular).
>>
>>I have no idea where this one is coming from!
>
>Deflection.
Sorrrry. Not bi-sexual.
>A club pivot is a dancer at the club who is your FRIEND. One is all it takes
>for the rest of the club to have more respect for you.
Assuming, of course, that I have a lot of respect for the other dancer. If one
of my studemt/dancer friends introduced the guy, sure, maybe. But a couple of
the "pros" that I knew had really shitty taste in men.
>>>10. Bring FOOD. Dancers often have to watch their diets excessively, or
>>>sometimes they forget to eat during their shift. When I go into a club with
>>a
>>>large plate of ribs, the dancers on stage can smell it very clearly, and it
>>>serves as an anchor of sorts. It also gives you a reason to be there whic
>>will
>>>impress them more. For the price of a few drinks and $1.00 tips, you can
>>add
>>>scenery to a takeout meal. Not a bad deal at all. This also can lead to
>>>discussions of food in general, cooking, dinner dates, or, ideally, cooking
>>for
>>>her at her place (I have a good rib recipe for that purpose). Another
>>>advantage of bringing food is that it absorbs alcohol, so you're less likely
>>to
>>>get so drunk you lose your judgment.
>>
>>Maybe in New Jersey sweety, but not in Vegas. You're not going to get past
>>the
>>two ex-NFL linemen at the door with a plate full of ribs or prawns or any
>>other
>>food-stuffs. Ray, it isn't going to happen in a quality club!
>
>I mentioned clubs that don't serve food.
It doesn't matter if they serve food or not! I've just never heard of anything
so ridiculous! And this is where I think maybe you are pulling people's legs. It
is just too funny to take seriously. It creates a comedy skit image of some poor
slob dragging in a bucket of prawns into a strip joint hoping to score. Really,
you should sell that idea to SNL! I see Will Farrell as the nerd with the
prawns.
>As for the ex-lineman at the door, they are very easy to become friends with.
Not if you try to get through the door with a bag of ribs! The two bouncers I
knew were ex-college football players and very rough customers. They were very
polite and professional, but on the look out for anything weird. Where do you
live? I mean, no smart person accepts food from a total stranger!
>>I'll say this again, just for the sake of discussion. If some guy out there
>>really wants to date a girl who works in a dance club, find out which clubs
>>the
>>dancers go to themselves when they are not working. (Which is generally NOT
>>another dance club.) The girls who "go out" are generally much more
>>approachable
>>AWAY from their club and when they are out partying. I knew lots of girls who
>>were totally professional at the club, and crazy party animals away from it.
>
>The problem with your theory there is that the PUA would go to the regular
>clubs anyway. The idea is to avoid the need for that.
What is wrong with a regular club? I say a guy's chances are much better there
than in a strip club.
>Most strippers stand out in regular clubs because they are still too receptive
>to being approached for that environment.
Some, maybe. Others less receptive.
>>Not
>>me, I had homework and had a completely separate social life. Little Miss
>>Goody
>>2-Shoes.
>
>Who sells her body to coporate America and thinks she's respectable.
Lots of people sell themselves to "corporate America." It's called "having a
job!" Simple supply and demand.
>You should see the evidence I've been gathering against several corporate types
>(and employment agencies) by going online as a sexy female administrative
>assistant who is looking for a job.
Appearance is not irrelevant in the business world or in life. Allowing one's
self to become a slob speaks volumes.
>Apparently, women don't mind being sex objects if the price is right, and if
>the boss looks but does not touch.
You use the assets you have. But my job isn't about being sexy as much as being
competent.
>>When I DID go out afterwards, me and a couple of the other "college
>>girls" would get back into our ordinary street clothes and drop by a little
>>"Irish Pub" and shoot darts and play pool regular people.
>
>A player can go to a pub when three hotties happen to be there.
Yeah, that would be my suggestion. When the "hotties" are relaxing. But I met
all my boyfriends on-campus. I was more interested in other students.
>>Got to run - have to get fixed up for church. You really want to meet a
>>"quality" person? Try church. No kidding!
>
>Bible chicks are phony. Not my speed.
I'm not really a "Bible chick." But I like the social atmosphere. And I like the
choir.
>>I started attending the Episcopal
>>Church a few months back and joined their choir. (Episcopal because they are
>>liberal-minded, not crazy fundamentalists, and tend to be more financially
>>prosperous.)
>
>You chose a church because its members are more "financially prosperous")?
Yes. I can't relate to those storefront preachers screaming about hell-fire and
damnation all the time. Lots of burnt out wreckages hang out in those places.
This church has cool social activities and very nice people. And they are not as
stuffy as one might think. Besides, I am more of a "liberal Christian" anyway.
>>I'm working on a "hot" prospect. A handsome neurosurgeon.
>
>In other words, you are golddigging. Guys like that generally don't have to
>settle for ex-strippers or corporate eye candy.
I'm sorry, I don't accept your definitions. I think I'm quite his equal. I have
excellent growth potential. I'm low-risk, have a good track record, and
excellent long-term biologicals.
>Of course, if I ever become a millionaire publisher or porn producer, I'll be
>the "hot prospect" even to you or your golddigging friends.
Well Ray, honey, the whole thing about the ribs, prawns, and the zoo animals,
the whole SNL skit thing, raises your risk factors for the smart investor. If
Mr. Neurosurgeon suddenly turns into an asshole, then I take a pass. I can
afford to be picky.
> How amusing that
>you have such a price tag, and how pathetic for the neurosurgoen that he has to
>dig from that dumpster.
Oh Ray, I'm sorry you had to resort to name-calling and insult.
>Now let's ask how much "work" this neurosurgeon had to do to win you over.
>Hmm...NONE! You sought out a place where you believe rich men congregate, and
>selected him from the crowd.
Very good! Don't we all do that? Or are you cruising the fat farms of America
looking for the next Welfare Pork Queen? If so, you have lots of choices.
>So much for having to win her over. Guess that rule doesn't apply if the guy
>has enough money.
No, not at all. Of course he has to win me over. Just like I've got to make an
effort to show him my best assests. It works both ways. I want him to see that I
am stable and smart and funny. AND very sexy. That is how you get the spark
going, attraction and commonality.
>>So Ray - when are we going to get "Church Gold?"
>
>I think you need to talk to the preacherman who is fucking a preacher's
>daughter and claiming that under scripture it's not even a sin.
Sounds too sordid to me.
>Sounds more like you and your surgeon target are proving that there is a sexual
>food chain, and he's two notches below you on it.
If I thought he was below me I would not bother. If he thinks I am below him,
I'm looking elsewhere. There has to be a sense of equality between two people
for it to really work. But, at this point in time, we're in the opening
negotiations. Just talking and doing a little eye flirting.
Whoops! Got to get ready to sell myself to the corporate machine! I like to be
on the road before the traffic gets totally insane.
Bye!
Eliz
Trainspotter
> >
> >Wrong. Dancers make tons of money as it is. If they LIKE you, they are not
> >going to let money stop them. There are many PUA who post here and in other
> >places about how this works.
>
> Sure sweety. You're going to walk into the club, waving a ten in one hand and
> a greasy spare rib in the other, treat the girls like zoo animals, and the are
> just going to fall in love with you, right?
That is friggin hilarious.
Im anonymous
> it (kind of like batting .450 in the minors in baseball would be), and since
> Stripper Gold is "old new theory" (as opposed to being "new theory," I can now
> share the key for men to understanding the strip clubs.
>
Listen to this guy: He got so successful with something he stopped
doing it. There was no challenge anymore, right Ray-boy? So is it
about time for you to make the big move to normal women (ie.
non-strippers) ?
Alex
at Lizex-...@home.noorg wrote on 9/15/03 9:30 AM:
>>> Not
>>> me, I had homework and had a completely separate social life. Little Miss
>>> Goody
>>> 2-Shoes.
>>
>> Who sells her body to coporate America and thinks she's respectable.
>
> Lots of people sell themselves to "corporate America." It's called "having a
> job!" Simple supply and demand.
Two concepts Gordon has trouble grasping.
LeModernCaveman
>>
>>Yet you show up here at JUST the right time!
>
>Coincidence. (smile)
Of course!
>>>I've just been too busy,
>>>but what do I find? Ray, are you a comedian? Seriously! You've missed your
>>>calling.
>>
>>Nothing like a female in narcissistic putdown mode.
>
>Because much of what you say is funny.
Make that "cackling, narcissistic putdown mode."
>>>Again, Ray, many clubs have RULES against making arrangements, on club
>time,
>>>for
>>>dates with the customers. It has to do with the suspicion of prostitution.
>I
>>>was
>>>told in the beginning that if I made a date with a client, on the premises,
>>>I'd
>>>be fired immediately. And I didn't want to get fired - the money was just
>too
>>>good.
>>
>>As I said, "there is no admitting it." It's also not prostitution if the
>sex
>>is voluntary. I also didn't mean to imply that money had to change hands.
>
>It's the appearance of anything that crosses the line on club premises. Club
>owners don't want the hassle.
Who said "on club premises?"
>>>>3. "Check your cards." Meaning that each visit to a strip club is
>unique.
>>>>Make sure you know who is dancing and if you don't like what you see,
>LEAVE.
>>>
>>>>Same principle as for regular clubs. Stay on the days where you are dealt
>>>the
>>>>equivalent of a flush or higher.
>>>
>>>Cryptic.
>>
>>Surveying one's environment is cryptic?
>
>Gambler jargon.
Deflection.
>>>>4. "Treat them like zoo animals." I think of a strip club the way one
>>>would a
>>>>zoo, because the dancers are "trapped" there during their shifts, while I
>am
>>>>not. If I don't like what I see there, I can leave; she cannot.
>>>
>>>Oh that's REALLY GUARANTEED TO WORK! NOT!
>>
>>Actually it gives a man the confidence to deal with the dancers as inferior
>to
>>him. His ability to walk away, and his not needing CSM (Contacts With
>Strange
>>Men) to earn a living also make him superior.
>
>
>That is a very weird perspective. A very unattractive attitude. Says more
>about
>the person who has to play those games.
As the men here point out, women don't tend to admit what "works" on them. A
woman saying something won't work is often saying she doesn't like the fact
that it works.
I also didn't say to carry an attitude about it. Wealthy men don't have to
have an attitude about their money to get sex from a golddigger, yet the truth
is there whether or not it's spoken.
>>>>her time, and you can do this by timing your visits so that very little
>>>money
>>>>(I mean like $10 or less) can make you the "big spender" in the club.
>>>
>>>LMAO!
>>
>>Not denying a thing I'm saying, of course.
>
>Your statement is extremely naive. But who knows, maybe it does work with
>some
>beat up old crank whores.
Insulting WOMEN now are you? You're getting on in years yourself. In an empty
club, it doesn't take much money to be the one with the most of it.
>>>And when you're in a strip club, you're on her time clock. No spend, no
>time.
>>
>>Wrong. Dancers make tons of money as it is. If they LIKE you, they are not
>>going to let money stop them. There are many PUA who post here and in other
>>places about how this works.
>
>Sure sweety. You're going to walk into the club, waving a ten in one hand and
>a
>greasy spare rib in the other, treat the girls like zoo animals, and the are
>just going to fall in love with you, right?
More like I'd walk into the club with some food, sit down, eat it, ignore the
dancers, and don't tip more than $1.00 when they approach me.
If they want conversation, they can't ask for money. You'd be surprised at the
number of dancers that don't care about the money.
>>>All I can say is you better be one physically impressive guy, with big fat
>>>bucks, to make that advice work for you. From a dancer's point of view, one
>>>of
>>>the side effects of working in a club is you become much more difficult to
>>>"impress."
>>
>>You mean you THINK that's the case. It's also not the case for every
>dancer.
>
>The "pros" are quite often very jaded because of the life they've lived. A
>great
>many of the young women I worked with came from really bad backgrounds.
>Really
>fucked up family situations. Many have seen the worst side of men for far too
>long to be easily impressed. This wasn't the case with me. I came to it from
>a
>dance background. I've been in dance classes since I was four years old. It
>was
>simple economics.
And sexual ethics.
Many of the women you put down are more ethical than you are.
>>>Oh Jesus Ray! Do you think that 99% of the dancers can remember a face they
>>>see
>>>in the crowd for even a week? Maybe if you're Heath Ledger!
>>
>>Most tend to be pretty good at that, but if the PUA demonstrates value,
>he'll
>>definitely be remembered, as will the frequency with which he visits.
>
>And demonstrating "value", to a dancer, means forking over the cash!
Wrong. It means being the type of man who WON'T fork over the cash.
>>>but it would have been a major turn-off for me. I
>>>worked
>>>as a dancer for one reason and one reason only - to pay for my education. I
>>>worked in Vegas and honey, I've seen what gambling does to people. No
>>>gamblers
>>>for me - ever!
>>
>>Does that include Billy Walters or his crew? If you ever danced in Vegas
>you
>>would know who that man is.
>
>The name is familiar. But I am not a gambling groupie.
You were a money groupie, though.
>>Of course, in Vegas, most REAL dancers there have access to all kinds of
>inside
>>info.
>
>If they hang out with gamblers maybe. I don't like the type. There is
>something
>sleazy about "the gambler" types. And they are not usually very physically
>fit.
>I was then and am now a total fitness nut.
Because your body is your meal ticket, even at a "regular" job.
Women like that are little more than corporate Hooter girls.
>>There are more per-capita professional gamblers in Vegas than anywhere
>>in the United States.
>
>And like I have said, I've seen what gambling has done to people. It's an
>ugly
>lifestyle.
Someone wins the money those guys lose.
>>Not only that, there are women there who look for guys who just made a big
>hit.
>> Your words (nor your timing) pass the "smell test" here.
>
>We've been down this road before. If someone disagrees with you, you go off
>on
>them.
You seem more guilty of that yourself.
>>A club pivot is a dancer at the club who is your FRIEND. One is all it
>takes
>>for the rest of the club to have more respect for you.
>
>Assuming, of course, that I have a lot of respect for the other dancer. If
>one
>of my studemt/dancer friends introduced the guy, sure, maybe. But a couple of
>the "pros" that I knew had really shitty taste in men.
PUAs talk about using friends to slip under the woman's radar.
That you'd give more credence to a recommendation of a friend means you have
little faith in your own judgment of men.
>>>Maybe in New Jersey sweety, but not in Vegas. You're not going to get past
>>>the
>>>two ex-NFL linemen at the door with a plate full of ribs or prawns or any
>>>other
>>>food-stuffs. Ray, it isn't going to happen in a quality club!
>>
>>I mentioned clubs that don't serve food.
>
>It doesn't matter if they serve food or not! I've just never heard of
>anything
>so ridiculous! And this is where I think maybe you are pulling people's legs.
>It
>is just too funny to take seriously. It creates a comedy skit image of some
>poor
>slob dragging in a bucket of prawns into a strip joint hoping to score.
More like hoping to have some eye candy to go with the meal. You can never
expect to score on any specific visit to a strip club.
It's an "anti-customer" approach. I'm a "customer" but only the bare-bones
type. Just in there long enough to test the waters.
>Really,
>you should sell that idea to SNL! I see Will Farrell as the nerd with the
>prawns.
More like a guy watching a game while eating a takeout meal.
Not at all like you describe.
>>As for the ex-lineman at the door, they are very easy to become friends
>with.
>
>Not if you try to get through the door with a bag of ribs! The two bouncers I
>knew were ex-college football players and very rough customers. They were
>very
>polite and professional, but on the look out for anything weird. Where do you
>live? I mean, no smart person accepts food from a total stranger!
Who said I'd offer the food? I said BRING the food. Then eat it.
Figures you'd speak well of violent men.
are out partying. I knew lots of girls
>who
>>>were totally professional at the club, and crazy party animals away from
>it.
>>
>>The problem with your theory there is that the PUA would go to the regular
>>clubs anyway. The idea is to avoid the need for that.
>
>What is wrong with a regular club? I say a guy's chances are much better
>there
>than in a strip club.
The women at the regular club are also better, just a more difficult
environment. If I'm going to take the time to go to a regular club I wouldn't
bother with a stripper.
>>Most strippers stand out in regular clubs because they are still too
>receptive
>>to being approached for that environment.
>
>Some, maybe. Others less receptive.
That's why PUA play a numbers game.
>>>Not
>>>me, I had homework and had a completely separate social life. Little Miss
>>>Goody
>>>2-Shoes.
>>
>>Who sells her body to coporate America and thinks she's respectable.
>
>Lots of people sell themselves to "corporate America." It's called "having a
>job!" Simple supply and demand.
I was talking about having ethics. Your "success" comes at the expense of less
attractive women, yet you say that you don't like being a sex object, even if
it's obvious you do if the price is right.
Women get on their soapboxes about equality and right and wrong but prove it's
a crock of shit with their own behavior.
That may make you well-paid, but it makes you unfit for marriage or motherhood,
at least if a man is smart enough to check your ethics. If not, he'll probably
wind up fleeced in divorce court.
Women who profit from looks bias are essentially communicating to other WOMEN
that looks are fair game as a hiring consideration. Any woman who holds that
view simply isn't ethical and could only be useful as a sex toy.
>>You should see the evidence I've been gathering against several corporate
>types
>>(and employment agencies) by going online as a sexy female administrative
>>assistant who is looking for a job.
>
>Appearance is not irrelevant in the business world or in life.
You're talking about grooming, I'm talking about sexuality. Big, BIG
difference.
>Allowing one's
>self to become a slob speaks volumes.
Allowing oneself to be rewarded because one happens to be sexier than someone
better qualified for a job speaks even more volumes.
>>Apparently, women don't mind being sex objects if the price is right, and if
>>the boss looks but does not touch.
>
>You use the assets you have.
If you're not ethical, you do. If you are ethical, you fight the bias.
>But my job isn't about being sexy as much as
>being
>competent.
Funny how women never add two and two and think their being hit on at work has
nothing to do with why they were hired.
You're full of shit.
>>>When I DID go out afterwards, me and a couple of the other "college
>>>girls" would get back into our ordinary street clothes and drop by a little
>>>"Irish Pub" and shoot darts and play pool regular people.
>>
>>A player can go to a pub when three hotties happen to be there.
>
>Yeah, that would be my suggestion. When the "hotties" are relaxing. But I met
>all my boyfriends on-campus. I was more interested in other students.
And guys know this as well. Women are everywhere, really.
>>>Got to run - have to get fixed up for church. You really want to meet a
>>>"quality" person? Try church. No kidding!
>>
>>Bible chicks are phony. Not my speed.
>
>I'm not really a "Bible chick." But I like the social atmosphere. And I like
>the
>choir.
I'm sure Jesus is proud.
>>>I started attending the Episcopal
>>>Church a few months back and joined their choir. (Episcopal because they
>are
>>>liberal-minded, not crazy fundamentalists, and tend to be more financially
>>>prosperous.)
>>
>>You chose a church because its members are more "financially prosperous")?
>
>Yes. I can't relate to those storefront preachers screaming about hell-fire
>and
>damnation all the time.
That camel-eye-needle thing must also suck for you.
>Lots of burnt out wreckages hang out in those places.
>This church has cool social activities and very nice people.
Wealthy="nice" in your book. How quaint.
>And they are not
>as
>stuffy as one might think. Besides, I am more of a "liberal Christian"
>anyway.
That comes in very handy if you want to sin or get a job you don't deserve, I'd
imagine.
>>>I'm working on a "hot" prospect. A handsome neurosurgeon.
>>
>>In other words, you are golddigging. Guys like that generally don't have to
>>settle for ex-strippers or corporate eye candy.
>
>I'm sorry, I don't accept your definitions. I think I'm quite his equal.
J.Lo thought that about Ben as well. You're not even close.
He might like using you for sex, though.
>I
>have
>excellent growth potential.
For wrinkles, maybe.
>I'm low-risk, have a good track record, and
>excellent long-term biologicals.
You are unethical, a former stripper, and he's got his pick of the litter.
>>Of course, if I ever become a millionaire publisher or porn producer, I'll
>be
>>the "hot prospect" even to you or your golddigging friends.
>
>Well Ray, honey, the whole thing about the ribs, prawns, and the zoo animals,
>the whole SNL skit thing, raises your risk factors for the smart investor.
Women are not "smart investors" when it comes to men. They are like 400-pound
people trying to lecture on nutrition.
>If
>Mr. Neurosurgeon suddenly turns into an asshole, then I take a pass. I can
>afford to be picky.
Until you age and no one wants you, but younger women never think of that.
I think I said before no decent man would ever love you. Watch how "painless"
that is for you when you don't get your target.
>> How amusing that
>>you have such a price tag, and how pathetic for the neurosurgoen that he has
>to
>>dig from that dumpster.
>
>Oh Ray, I'm sorry you had to resort to name-calling and insult.
You're garbage compared to a guy like that, and he's not going to want to be
wanted for his money.
You chose an unethical path in life; losing guys like that is the price you
pay; if he chose an equally unethical path, getting women like you is the price
he pays.
>>Now let's ask how much "work" this neurosurgeon had to do to win you over.
>>Hmm...NONE! You sought out a place where you believe rich men congregate,
>and
>>selected him from the crowd.
>
>Very good! Don't we all do that?
Women tell men they have to work at winning over the women they want. Men tell
men that they just have to BE what women want, and the women will do the work.
Still, most neurosurgeons won't give aging, ex-stripper trash anything more
than sex.
>Or are you cruising the fat farms of America
>looking for the next Welfare Pork Queen? If so, you have lots of choices.
I'm definitely a step ahead of a "doctor" who has to essentially BUY the women
who claim to "love" him.
>>So much for having to win her over. Guess that rule doesn't apply if the
>guy
>>has enough money.
>
>No, not at all. Of course he has to win me over. Just like I've got to make
>an
>effort to show him my best assests.
Read: SEX. At least you know what your meal ticket is.
Won't matter, though, because he doesn't have to settle for trash just because
the body attached to it happens to have a few attractive years left in it.
>It works both ways. I want him to see
>that I
>am stable and smart and funny. AND very sexy. That is how you get the spark
>going, attraction and commonality.
Long as he doesn't care about your ethics, in which case he sets himself up for
being fleeced in divorce court, which of course would serve him right.
>>>So Ray - when are we going to get "Church Gold?"
>>
>>I think you need to talk to the preacherman who is fucking a preacher's
>>daughter and claiming that under scripture it's not even a sin.
>
>Sounds too sordid to me.
Not to him!
>>Sounds more like you and your surgeon target are proving that there is a
>sexual
>>food chain, and he's two notches below you on it.
>
>If I thought he was below me I would not bother.
Women who can't pick winners shouldn't try to call any man a loser. Look at
your maggot-feeding friend. She was a "dancer" as well.
>If he thinks I am below him,
>I'm looking elsewhere.
Yet you already said you want him. Or would any man with enough money do?
>There has to be a sense of equality between two people
>for it to really work. But, at this point in time, we're in the opening
>negotiations. Just talking and doing a little eye flirting.
>
>Whoops! Got to get ready to sell myself to the corporate machine! I like to
>be
>on the road before the traffic gets totally insane.
>
>Bye!
Well, my religious beliefs say that God will fry you in hell one day, and if
I'm right, and you ever say you are sorry, what you'll really be saying is that
you never thought it would matter, not that you wish you had acted differently.
J...@here.now
Gordon Roy "..I'm jesus.." Parker spewed:
>You're full of shit
grp-ie, if ever there was a case for Pot = Kettle = Black
it's that one. U do have brown eyes, right ? :)
like yer, um, 'hellen' has ..but only one...
JJT
J...@here.now
>Well, my religious beliefs say that God will fry you in hell one day, and if
>I'm right, and you ever say you are sorry, what you'll really be saying is that
>you never thought it would matter, not that you wish you had acted differently.
Notice, here grp-ie has 'religious beliefs'..but then claims "..if I'm right." ?
He's not even sure of them. sad, very sad. I for one am quite sure of
my R/B (and R & B), but I guess grp-ie has issues..and questions..
But he has a damnation over them. And like all women, grp-ie
fears them all..damns them all to hell. Bad..BAD females..
"..cunts.." "..whores.." "..sluts.." They own grp-ie's soul...
But even stranger, he gloats over it all. As in his past posts,
he tells all that they will rue the day..and king grp-ie with his
dolly government will watch as the bad bad women suffer.
In 'ray-ality', grp-ie IS 'jesus'..
...sort of a bizzaro-grp-ie jesus...
Saying that it sux to be grp-ie sometimes isn't enough..
..no wonder he dodged the exam...
JJT
freddy freeloader
Im anonymous <acctf...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bffabe31.03091...@posting.google.com...
You must be joking.
I'm sure that Ray doesn't even go out to strip clubs at all. This "Stipper
Gold" shit is just more of his fantasies of real life.
Lizex-...@home.noorg
says...
>>
>>Your statement is extremely naive. But who knows, maybe it does work with
>>some
>>beat up old crank whores.
>
>Insulting WOMEN now are you?
No, just beat-up old crank whores.
I was simply pointing out a fact Ray - you talk about "quality" women and yet
you expect to lure one with a ten dollar bill and a bar-b-qued chicken wing
while treating them like zoo animals. Quality women are going to see that as
baffoonish and insulting.
>More like I'd walk into the club with some food, sit down, eat it, ignore the
>dancers, and don't tip more than $1.00 when they approach me.
And here is another thing that just doesn't seem to be going into your skull -
they won't let you do that in any reputable club!
>If they want conversation, they can't ask for money. You'd be surprised at the
>number of dancers that don't care about the money.
I am surprised that someone claiming to be a "seduction expert" is so incredibly
naive.
>>The "pros" are quite often very jaded because of the life they've lived. A
>>great
>>many of the young women I worked with came from really bad backgrounds.
>>Really
>>fucked up family situations. Many have seen the worst side of men for far too
>>long to be easily impressed. This wasn't the case with me. I came to it from
>>a
>>dance background. I've been in dance classes since I was four years old. It
>>was
>>simple economics.
>
>And sexual ethics.
If you have trouble with the "sexual ethics" of women who work in the clubs,
then why do you go there? You're an "activist", right? Why aren't you standing
out in front of the strip club proclaiming it a den of harlotry?
>Many of the women you put down are more ethical than you are.
The "crank whores?" I don't see anything particularly "ethical" about being a
crank whore, no.
>>>>Oh Jesus Ray! Do you think that 99% of the dancers can remember a face they
>>>>see
>>>>in the crowd for even a week? Maybe if you're Heath Ledger!
>>>
>>>Most tend to be pretty good at that, but if the PUA demonstrates value,
>>he'll
>>>definitely be remembered, as will the frequency with which he visits.
>>
>>And demonstrating "value", to a dancer, means forking over the cash!
>
>Wrong. It means being the type of man who WON'T fork over the cash.
(Shaking head - tsk tsk) That's counterintuitive and contradicts your own
previous statements about women only being interested in money.
>>>Does that include Billy Walters or his crew? If you ever danced in Vegas
>>you
>>>would know who that man is.
>>
>>The name is familiar. But I am not a gambling groupie.
>
>You were a money groupie, though.
Not really money so much as I like men who have accomplished things in their
lives. That have a passion. In college I dated other students and an athelete. I
dated guys that made much less than I did.
>>>Of course, in Vegas, most REAL dancers there have access to all kinds of
>>inside
>>>info.
>>
>>If they hang out with gamblers maybe. I don't like the type. There is
>>something
>>sleazy about "the gambler" types. And they are not usually very physically
>>fit.
>>I was then and am now a total fitness nut.
>
>Because your body is your meal ticket, even at a "regular" job.
Because my body has to last me a lifetime and I feel better when I am in shape.
>Women like that are little more than corporate Hooter girls.
If it makes you feel good to think that way, delude yourself.
>>>There are more per-capita professional gamblers in Vegas than anywhere
>>>in the United States.
>>
>>And like I have said, I've seen what gambling has done to people. It's an
>>ugly
>>lifestyle.
>
>Someone wins the money those guys lose.
I have an ethical problem with gambling.
>>>Not only that, there are women there who look for guys who just made a big
>>hit.
>>> Your words (nor your timing) pass the "smell test" here.
>>
>>We've been down this road before. If someone disagrees with you, you go off
>>on
>>them.
>
>You seem more guilty of that yourself.
I'm not making personal attacks, you are.
>>>A club pivot is a dancer at the club who is your FRIEND. One is all it
>>takes
>>>for the rest of the club to have more respect for you.
>>
>>Assuming, of course, that I have a lot of respect for the other dancer. If
>>one
>>of my studemt/dancer friends introduced the guy, sure, maybe. But a couple of
>>the "pros" that I knew had really shitty taste in men.
>
>PUAs talk about using friends to slip under the woman's radar.
Uhh, yeah, PUAs. Whatever.
>That you'd give more credence to a recommendation of a friend means you have
>little faith in your own judgment of men.
No it doesn't Ray. It means that I have a few friends that have a good eye and
if they meet a guy and suggest an introduction, I'll give it a shot. I
introduced one of my best friends to her husband. It's just friends helping
friends.
>More like hoping to have some eye candy to go with the meal. You can never
>expect to score on any specific visit to a strip club.
Maybe in one of those sleazy clubs.
>It's an "anti-customer" approach. I'm a "customer" but only the bare-bones
>type. Just in there long enough to test the waters.
Sure. Whatever you say.
>>Really,
>>you should sell that idea to SNL! I see Will Farrell as the nerd with the
>>prawns.
>
>More like a guy watching a game while eating a takeout meal.
Must be a cheapy club. There was a "game room", but not in the "dance room". And
they served food there so you would not have been allowed to bring food into the
place.
>Not at all like you describe.
What you describe doesn't sound like reality.
>>>As for the ex-lineman at the door, they are very easy to become friends
>>with.
>>
>>Not if you try to get through the door with a bag of ribs! The two bouncers I
>>knew were ex-college football players and very rough customers. They were
>>very
>>polite and professional, but on the look out for anything weird. Where do you
>>live? I mean, no smart person accepts food from a total stranger!
>
>Who said I'd offer the food? I said BRING the food. Then eat it.
LOL!
>Figures you'd speak well of violent men.
They were bouncers! They were required to be professional, polite, and somewhat
intimidating. The bouncers were very cool about walking the girls out to their
cars. They didn't seem like the kind of guys that just went around being
violent. They didn't have to.
>are out partying. I knew lots of girls
>>who
>>>>were totally professional at the club, and crazy party animals away from
>>it.
>>>
>>>The problem with your theory there is that the PUA would go to the regular
>>>clubs anyway. The idea is to avoid the need for that.
>>
>>What is wrong with a regular club? I say a guy's chances are much better
>>there
>>than in a strip club.
>
>The women at the regular club are also better, just a more difficult
>environment. If I'm going to take the time to go to a regular club I wouldn't
>bother with a stripper.
Another weird idea. Ray, I worked in a titty dance bar, but I wasn't a 'ho'.
There are girls in regular clubs a lot more promiscuous than I ever was. I am
not an easy lay sweety. I've always tended toward long term relationships. I
don't do casual sex.
>>>Most strippers stand out in regular clubs because they are still too
>>receptive
>>>to being approached for that environment.
>>
>>Some, maybe. Others less receptive.
>
>That's why PUA play a numbers game.
The "player" types are so obvious. And ummm "tacky."
>>>>Not
>>>>me, I had homework and had a completely separate social life. Little Miss
>>>>Goody
>>>>2-Shoes.
>>>
>>>Who sells her body to coporate America and thinks she's respectable.
>>
>>Lots of people sell themselves to "corporate America." It's called "having a
>>job!" Simple supply and demand.
>
>I was talking about having ethics. Your "success" comes at the expense of less
>attractive women, yet you say that you don't like being a sex object,
I was hired because I have the professional credentials and I give good
interview. And who said I don't like being a bit of a sex object? I want "the
right guy" to be interested in me at every level. I want him to get excited when
I walk into the room. I want to blow his socks off.
>even if
>it's obvious you do if the price is right.
It's only "obvious" to you Ray. Because you're being defensive.
>That may make you well-paid, but it makes you unfit for marriage or motherhood,
>at least if a man is smart enough to check your ethics. If not, he'll probably
>wind up fleeced in divorce court.
There you go again. Losing control of yourself.
>Women who profit
snip...(boring)
>>>You should see the evidence I've
snip...(tedious)
>You're talking about grooming, I'm talking about sexuality. Big, BIG
>difference.
And you're an expert?
>>Allowing one's
>>self to become a slob speaks volumes.
>
>Allowing oneself to be rewarded because one happens to be sexier than someone
>better qualified for a job speaks even more volumes.
I had to go through several interviews, just like everyone else. I was selected.
And my boss, who isn't even a man, says I'm the best employee she's ever hired.
>>>Apparently, women don't mind being sex objects if the price is right, and if
>>>the boss looks but does not touch.
>>
>>You use the assets you have.
>
>If you're not ethical, you do. If you are ethical, you fight the bias.
Oh do you? And so you are out there, everyday, fighting the unethical "lookism"
in our society by dating fat and ugly women, right?
(Good for you Ray! I'm proud of you.)
>>But my job isn't about being sexy as much as
>>being
>>competent.
>
>Funny how women never add two and two and think their being hit on at work has
>nothing to do with why they were hired.
That's in your own mind Ray. I work in a situation where I rarely get "hit-on".
>You're full of shit.
LOL!
>>>>When I DID go out afterwards, me and a couple of the other "college
>>>>girls" would get back into our ordinary street clothes and drop by a little
>>>>"Irish Pub" and shoot darts and play pool regular people.
>>>
>>>A player can go to a pub when three hotties happen to be there.
>>
>>Yeah, that would be my suggestion. When the "hotties" are relaxing. But I met
>>all my boyfriends on-campus. I was more interested in other students.
>
>And guys know this as well. Women are everywhere, really.
Yes, they are. And a guy would probably do better at an art gallery than at a
strip club.
>>I'm not really a "Bible chick." But I like the social atmosphere. And I like
>>the
>>choir.
>
>I'm sure Jesus is proud.
Jesus is all about forgiveness and compassion. And my sins have not been all
that great.
>That camel-eye-needle thing must also suck for you.
Not really.
>>Lots of burnt out wreckages hang out in those places.
>>This church has cool social activities and very nice people.
>
>Wealthy="nice" in your book. How quaint.
Not so much wealthy as "secure". After all, if the goal is marriage and a
family, those things are important. Gamblers are extremely insecure. Risky
investments. They are often addicts who can't quit.
>>And they are not
>>as
>>stuffy as one might think. Besides, I am more of a "liberal Christian"
>>anyway.
>
>That comes in very handy if you want to sin or get a job you don't deserve, I'd
>imagine.
Aren't my employers a better judge of what I deserve?
>J.Lo thought that about Ben as well. You're not even close.
Now you're being weird again. Pardon me but who gives a f**k about JLo and Ben?
>He might like using you for sex, though.
Then he's in for a surprise.
>>I
>>have
>>excellent growth potential.
>
>For wrinkles, maybe.
How old did you say YOU were Ray?
>>>Of course, if I ever become a millionaire publisher or porn producer, I'll
>>be
>>>the "hot prospect" even to you or your golddigging friends.
eeeuwww.."porn".
>Women are not "smart investors" when it comes to men. They are like 400-pound
>people trying to lecture on nutrition.
Because none have invested in you? Just what would your portfolio look like?
>I think I said before no decent man would ever love you. Watch how "painless"
>that is for you when you don't get your target.
Uuhh, Ray, your knee is jerking violently. Are you okay?
>>Oh Ray, I'm sorry you had to resort to name-calling and insult.
>
>You're garbage
Maybe you should have a lie down now? Take a little nappy?
Eliz
Alex
at Lizex-...@home.noorg wrote on 9/16/03 9:31 AM:
>> Not at all like you describe.
>
> What you describe doesn't sound like reality.
That's 'cause it isn't. It's "Ray-ality."
Lizex-...@home.noorg
On the subject of "strippers" he seems completely misinformed. What he posts
seems more like fantasy than fact. As advice, I think it is hopeless. It should
always be remembered that strip clubs are about seduction, illusion, and moving
money from point A to point B. I am not ashamed of my former occupation, I don't
believe I've done anything I need to be ashamed of. But I do feel that it is
important to be honest. Men come to this newsgroup looking for honest advice
about meeting women, and they could go broke trying to score in a titty bar.
Trust me on this one, it's a real and very expensive long shot.
eLiz
Mr Nifty
<Lizex-...@home.noorg> wrote in message
news:9b%9b.20621$cJ5....@www.newsranger.com...
This is the best thing I've seen in this group for ages :-)
Thanks eLiz. Please keep responding to RG, it makes my day to see him
humiliated (yet again).
Alex
at Lizex-...@home.noorg wrote on 9/17/03 11:35 AM:
That's not been my experience but everyone's mileage may vary.
AlphaHot1
>On the subject of "strippers" he seems completely misinformed. What he posts
>seems more like fantasy than fact. As advice, I think it is hopeless. It should
>always be remembered that strip clubs are about seduction, illusion, and moving
>money from point A to point B. I am not ashamed of my former occupation, I don't
>believe I've done anything I need to be ashamed of. But I do feel that it is
>important to be honest. Men come to this newsgroup looking for honest advice
>about meeting women, and they could go broke trying to score in a titty bar.
>Trust me on this one, it's a real and very expensive long shot.
:::::::Eliz, the dialog in this thread between you and Ray was amusing, to say the
least. Some of your comments were refreshingly witty. And I'm sure most people here
like it when they see Ray get incidentally "slapped" around a bit.
But I do have a few questions for you though. When you refer to strip clubs, and the
general mentality of the women who dance in strip clubs (what they would or wouldn't
do, etc.), do you believe you're referring more to your own personal experiences of
performing in a strip club, or the experiences of all women who perform in strip
clubs, or "most" women who dance in strip clubs?
For the sake of argument, if you were to take every titty bar in the country and
consider them all as one "collective titty place," what would you say the average
chances would be, on any given night, for an average guy to get laid by a stripper in
this place either A) in the premises B) on the premises (parking lot for example) or
C) by taking the stripper back to his place.
Interested in hearing your reply.
One Merely Needs To Know How To Talk To A Chick
In Order To Secure Seductive Results -AH1-
Trainspotter
I think one of the problems is that you and Ray are talking about two
very different sorts of clubs. The upscale clubs that you worked at
would be damn near impossible to get a legitimate date from (by
legitimate, I mean nothing that remotely smacks of a financial or drug
transaction). It's high pressure, high paced...and high overhead. The
money has to keep rolling in damn near constantly.
But at the mid and lower level clubs, which are going to be the vast
majority of clubs in most cities in the country (I live in a greater
metropolitan area of nearly a million, and NONE of the clubs are Vegas
style)...it is a different story. Even so, I totally agree with you
that a guy would stand a better chance in other environments. But the
point is that the atmosphere at most clubs seems to be very different
than what prevails in Vegas, and the more standard clubs do have their
advantages for certain guys. For instance, let's say it is a Tuesday
night and the guy wants to go out. The regular dance clubs don't even
really get going until after 11:00 P.M., and the guy doesn't want to
be out until two in the morning. The strip club provides an option at
that point: it's going to be nearly empty of customers and yet have a
full shift of dancers. He'll have a chance to talk to a couple of
girls, and it will be just as good at 7:00 P.M. as it would be at
midnight. That sort of thing, though there are other advantages as
well.
The disadvantage, of course, is that 19 out of 20 girls that dance at
such clubs are going to be, well, troubled. Or trouble causers. So
even if the guy "wins", he may wish he hadn't.
ModernCaveman21
>
>No, just beat-up old crank whores.
Which can be defined as any "woman" who doesn't behave as you specify, unless
you're speaking literally of "crank whores" that men don't need to settle for,
in which case you can consider yourself refuted.
>I was simply pointing out a fact Ray - you talk about "quality" women and yet
>you expect to lure one with a ten dollar bill and a bar-b-qued chicken wing
>while treating them like zoo animals.
It's a little more involved than that.
Actually, when I do seduce strippers, it's almost exclusively through my
interest in erotic hypnosis, and ability to teach it (my "gimmick"). The food
and not spending are just tactical advantages.
You don't win over a stripper with a small amount of money, but instead by not
forking over a large amount of it.
Reverse the genders: many beautiful women use their sexuality to get what they
want without putting out.
>Quality women are going to see that as
>baffoonish and insulting.
And what do they do then? Insult a customer who did tip them (if only a
dollar), didn't act crude, and who is intelligent and polite in a club that
would otherwise be empty? Doubt it. An empty club NEEDS men there to give the
impression that the dancers aren't desperate. I can therefore help them earn
money even if I don't spend it myself.
>>More like I'd walk into the club with some food, sit down, eat it, ignore
>the
>>dancers, and don't tip more than $1.00 when they approach me.
>
>And here is another thing that just doesn't seem to be going into your skull
>-
>they won't let you do that in any reputable club!
Tip a dollar per visit?
Clubs that do NOT serve food encourage men to bring it.
If they sell food, I just buy my dinner there. No difference.
>>If they want conversation, they can't ask for money. You'd be surprised at
>the
>>number of dancers that don't care about the money.
>
>I am surprised that someone claiming to be a "seduction expert" is so
>incredibly
>naive.
I'm surprised that a professed ex-stripper is in such denial about what really
transpires in the clubs.
By the way, a dancer I know who has won awards has said that she believes men
can pick up dancers in the "quality" clubs.
She agreed with me that they are still women and still have trouble finding
quality men. In fact, most in the adult entertainment industry I speak to say
that the women tend to let their emotions get the best of them and fall for
customers.
Is that so shocking? Who understands a stripper better: a man who has gone to
strip clubs or one who hasn't?
How can you be proud of what you did for money yet insult the men who paid your
wages? Doesn't add up.
>>>The "pros" are quite often very jaded because of the life they've lived. A
>>>great
>>>many of the young women I worked with came from really bad backgrounds.
>>>Really
>>>fucked up family situations. Many have seen the worst side of men for far
>too
>>>long to be easily impressed. This wasn't the case with me. I came to it
>from
>>>a
>>>dance background. I've been in dance classes since I was four years old. It
>>>was
>>>simple economics.
>>
>>And sexual ethics.
>
>If you have trouble with the "sexual ethics" of women who work in the clubs,
>then why do you go there? You're an "activist", right? Why aren't you
>standing
>out in front of the strip club proclaiming it a den of harlotry?
Because strippers are HONEST about what they do to earn their money. Corporate
eye-candy are not. They want a respectability they haven't earned.
As an activist, I fight the greater evil.
>>Many of the women you put down are more ethical than you are.
>
>The "crank whores?" I don't see anything particularly "ethical" about being a
>crank whore, no.
You mean your dead friend? Not all dancers are crank-whores, but most pretty
women in corporate America are hired eye-candy.
Strippers come in many flavors. Yours and your dead friend's are but two of
them, at the extremes.
>>>>Most tend to be pretty good at that, but if the PUA demonstrates value,
>>>he'll
>>>>definitely be remembered, as will the frequency with which he visits.
>>>
>>>And demonstrating "value", to a dancer, means forking over the cash!
>>
>>Wrong. It means being the type of man who WON'T fork over the cash.
>
>(Shaking head - tsk tsk) That's counterintuitive and contradicts your own
>previous statements about women only being interested in money.
Not at all. A man who doesn't waste money on strippers is very smart with his
money.
>>>>Does that include Billy Walters or his crew? If you ever danced in Vegas
>>>you
>>>>would know who that man is.
>>>
>>>The name is familiar. But I am not a gambling groupie.
>>
>>You were a money groupie, though.
>
>Not really money so much as I like men who have accomplished things in their
>lives.
Making millions at sports betting and causing bookies to go bankrupt is not an
accomplishment?
I've written eight books. That's an accomplishment.
I've written a database software that makes excellent odds lines. That's an
accomplishment.
My peak rating in chess is 2000 ("Expert"). That is an accomplishment.
I've produced two very popular sexy hypnosis recordings. That's an
accomplishment.
If I wind up knocking down affirmative action, that'll be an accomplishment as
well.
>That have a passion.
Translation: it's easier to say you like a man's "accomplishments" than his
MONEY.
>In college I dated other students and an
>athelete.
So? Men know that they can get laid by being in shape.
If my mind weren't so sharp, I'd probably cash in on this more. I simply do
not need to.
>I
>dated guys that made much less than I did.
Did you MARRY them?
Women look for many things in men. Men are fortunate in that regard. With
women, their looks are their meal ticket.
>>>sleazy about "the gambler" types. And they are not usually very physically
>>>fit.
>>>I was then and am now a total fitness nut.
>>
>>Because your body is your meal ticket, even at a "regular" job.
>
>Because my body has to last me a lifetime and I feel better when I am in
>shape.
Your body is also your meal ticket, even at your "regular" job.
>>Women like that are little more than corporate Hooter girls.
>
>If it makes you feel good to think that way, delude yourself.
You're the delusional one, and this is where I lose respect for women. What do
you know that the world's top neurologists do not?
The "beauty premium" is well documented in corporate America. Of course, if
you benefit from this premium, you're not going to admit it becuase, well, it
makes you look bad.
This is another reason I go undercover online as a pretty female (with a woman
to voice verify on the phone and serve as a witness) to catch these loser
bosses in the act. You know damn well that this bias exists, and you'd have to
be a flat-out liar or flat-out stupid to deny it.
You just can't handle it when a man speaks an obvious truth that other men will
suppress because they know it would piss you off to verbalize it.
If you call me "deluded" over this, you'd have to call Dr. Aharon and about 100
other researchers deluded as well, which would put me in excellent company.
One requirement any man who wants to fuck you will have to meet is to enable
your denial of the advantages your body gives you in the job market. Such men
are either stupid or dishonest, and therefore inferior relationship and
marriage material, as well as inferior father material.
Unethical people hook up with each other and have dishonest relationships.
>>>And like I have said, I've seen what gambling has done to people. It's an
>>>ugly
>>>lifestyle.
>>
>>Someone wins the money those guys lose.
>
>I have an ethical problem with gambling.
But not one with taking a job or a higher salary because of how you look.
How is gambling inherently unethical?
>>>We've been down this road before. If someone disagrees with you, you go off
>>>on
>>>them.
>>
>>You seem more guilty of that yourself.
>
>I'm not making personal attacks, you are.
You've made several personal attacks.
Also, your denial of the beauty premium would invariably lead to a personal
attack if I asked you why the lawyers in my city hire girls out of high school
(ALL GIRL catholic high schools, I might add), and pass me over.
Either you have to admit the bias or engage in a personal attack against me.
>>>Assuming, of course, that I have a lot of respect for the other dancer. If
>>>one
>>>of my studemt/dancer friends introduced the guy, sure, maybe. But a couple
>of
>>>the "pros" that I knew had really shitty taste in men.
>>
>>PUAs talk about using friends to slip under the woman's radar.
>
>Uhh, yeah, PUAs. Whatever.
Wow, that's definitive. "Whatever!"
I hope the other men reading this here realize that you have essentially
attempted to discredit all the fine theory by one former poster here about how
to pluck strippers from their clubs (he claimed eight plucks from canadian
clubs where they have REAL dancers who make the Vegas women look like trash).
Also, Vegas strippers tend to be VERY undesirable, simply because the real
dancers in that town don't have to strip, because they can be showgirls.
>>That you'd give more credence to a recommendation of a friend means you have
>>little faith in your own judgment of men.
>
>No it doesn't Ray. It means that I have a few friends that have a good eye
Another myth, and one that is forgotten by the time the negative impact
materializes.
Not only that, a friend will keep the best finds for herself.
>and
>if they meet a guy and suggest an introduction, I'll give it a shot.
For all you know the guy may be calling in a favor and you're the favor.
It's bypassing the critical factor, and one of the key methods that PUAs rely
on. See "ignore the target." You've basically just admitted that you fall
into one of the worst type of player traps.
>I
>introduced one of my best friends to her husband.
How long have they been married? You won't know for years if your introduction
was wise. Then again, if you live in the moment, you won't concern yourself
with this.
>It's just friends helping
>friends.
Or meddling. Depends on your spin.
>>More like hoping to have some eye candy to go with the meal. You can never
>>expect to score on any specific visit to a strip club.
>
>Maybe in one of those sleazy clubs.
Or high-class. Dancers are still women, and they still fuck men.
>>It's an "anti-customer" approach. I'm a "customer" but only the bare-bones
>>type. Just in there long enough to test the waters.
>
>Sure. Whatever you say.
Not exactly a conclusive refutation.
>>>Really,
>>>you should sell that idea to SNL! I see Will Farrell as the nerd with the
>>>prawns.
>>
>>More like a guy watching a game while eating a takeout meal.
>
>Must be a cheapy club. There was a "game room", but not in the "dance room".
>And
>they served food there so you would not have been allowed to bring food into
>the
>place.
Then I could order the food there. Same principle.
>>Not at all like you describe.
>
>What you describe doesn't sound like reality.
What you describe sounds like the way you want things to be rather than the way
they are.
>>>>As for the ex-lineman at the door, they are very easy to become friends
>>>with.
>>>
>>>Not if you try to get through the door with a bag of ribs! The two bouncers
>I
>>>knew were ex-college football players and very rough customers. They were
>>>very
>>>polite and professional, but on the look out for anything weird. Where do
>you
>>>live? I mean, no smart person accepts food from a total stranger!
>>
>>Who said I'd offer the food? I said BRING the food. Then eat it.
>
>LOL!
Your point?
>>Figures you'd speak well of violent men.
>
>They were bouncers! They were required to be professional, polite, and
>somewhat
>intimidating.
Anyone they'd have to truly worry about wouldn't be the slightest bit
intimidated by them.
Also shows you don't understand Vegas if you think linemen are tougher than
gamblers or who the gamblers know. Gamblers -- at least the sharp ones -- tend
to OWN the players (or those who own them). Literally.
Dancers in Vegas -- at least the smart ones -- understand this relationship and
rarely lose when they bet on the NFL.
>The bouncers were very cool about walking the girls out to
>their
>cars. They didn't seem like the kind of guys that just went around being
>violent. They didn't have to.
There's always someone tougher on the block.
>>>What is wrong with a regular club? I say a guy's chances are much better
>>>there
>>>than in a strip club.
>>
>>The women at the regular club are also better, just a more difficult
>>environment. If I'm going to take the time to go to a regular club I
>wouldn't
>>bother with a stripper.
>
>Another weird idea. Ray, I worked in a titty dance bar, but I wasn't a 'ho'.
>There are girls in regular clubs a lot more promiscuous than I ever was. I am
>not an easy lay sweety.
You are for the right guy.
>I've always tended toward long term relationships. I
>don't do casual sex.
How far into your past relationships did you put out?
It's not a long-term relationship the first time you have sex, so how long did
you wait?
>>>>Most strippers stand out in regular clubs because they are still too
>>>receptive
>>>>to being approached for that environment.
>>>
>>>Some, maybe. Others less receptive.
>>
>>That's why PUA play a numbers game.
>
>The "player" types are so obvious. And ummm "tacky."
A true player is NOT obvious. He will fit your model of a "great guy." This is
what pisses off the nice guys, and rightly so.
If you're saying your character judgments of men are accurate 100 percent of
the time, that's another issue and one I doubt many would agree with you on.
>>>>>Not
>>>>>me, I had homework and had a completely separate social life. Little Miss
>>>>>Goody
>>>>>2-Shoes.
>>>>
>>>>Who sells her body to coporate America and thinks she's respectable.
>>>
>>>Lots of people sell themselves to "corporate America." It's called "having
>a
>>>job!" Simple supply and demand.
>>
>>I was talking about having ethics. Your "success" comes at the expense of
>less
>>attractive women, yet you say that you don't like being a sex object,
>
>I was hired because I have the professional credentials and I give good
>interview.
You're a mindreader now?
The beauty premium is as real as your denial of it.
I know you WANT to believe that your looks aren't a factor, but every time you
get hit on or even flirted with at work, you're proven wrong.
It's very easy to make these denials when you know they can't be verified.
>And who said I don't like being a bit of a sex object?
At work? If you introduce sexuality into your career, you do it at the expense
of ugly, older, and fat women.
Is there a reason they are less deserving of the same opportunity you get?
>I want "the
>right guy" to be interested in me at every level.
He'll only care about the sexual level, just like the rest of them.
As another guy here says, "women aren't good at one thing, but they are BEST at
one thing." That's a nice way to let you think that he's into more than your
sexuality, but it's a crock of shit.
These men will always overlook personality flaws before they will overlook the
physical ones.
Also, what you call the "right guy" can be anything. Apparently having money
goes a long way towards making him "right," even if according to the Bible, it
goes a long way towards ensuring he spends his afterlife in hell.
>I want him to get excited
>when
>I walk into the room. I want to blow his socks off.
And put down the men you don't want to react that way.
Generally the men you want aren't going to want you for much more than sex.
It's all you offer.
>>even if
>>it's obvious you do if the price is right.
>
>It's only "obvious" to you Ray. Because you're being defensive.
You're the one bragging about the neurosurgeon.
If you have a price tag, don't complain about being associated with women who
are for sale. You chose that requirement, not me.
>>That may make you well-paid, but it makes you unfit for marriage or
>motherhood,
>>at least if a man is smart enough to check your ethics. If not, he'll
>probably
>>wind up fleeced in divorce court.
>
>There you go again. Losing control of yourself.
Or just predicting your future with accuracy.
You're the one who can avoid scrutiny here. You can sanitize your life any way
you want to out here. I put myself out for the public to see; you do not.
>>Women who profit
>
>snip...(boring)
In other words, you don't want to hear about this.
Just because the neurosurgeon is too naive and stupid to think about stuff like
this, its relevance is not decreased.
>>>>You should see the evidence I've
>
>snip...(tedious)
Proving the beauty premium is tedious now? First you call it a delusion, and
when I offer proof that it's not, you snip?
Typical hottie narcissism and dictatorial behavior.
You also demonstrate my point that a man can't really stand up to you on the
things that you don't want to hear about. If you try to bully him and he calls
you on it, he's showing backbone. However, if he calls you on your REAL
bullshit -- like you get ahead in life on any kind of merit and not because
losers with money want to have sex with you -- then he knows too much and must
be ostracized.
When you are 40 or 45 (even 35) and your world crashes, you won't be able to
deny it so easily, because then you'll be divorced and unattractive. In fact,
if you talk to women in that age range now, who were once as pretty as you are
now, you'll find many who understand exactly what I speak of now and who are
finally willing to start admitting it.
Many of them try to rewrite history, claiming they were young and stupid, but
you prove they were just young, arrogant, short-sighted, dishonest, and just
plain unethical.
>>You're talking about grooming, I'm talking about sexuality. Big, BIG
>>difference.
>
>And you're an expert?
I've done a large amount of study and investigation into the beauty premium,
and I've read almost every major study (or summary of the study) that has been
done in the past 10 years.
Call it what you want, I am very familiar with this topic. You don't like
discussing it because it shows you to be what you really are, and would turn
off the Johns you are trying to pass off as "prospects."
>>>Allowing one's
>>>self to become a slob speaks volumes.
>>
>>Allowing oneself to be rewarded because one happens to be sexier than
>someone
>>better qualified for a job speaks even more volumes.
>
>I had to go through several interviews, just like everyone else.
Why not? Each "interview" puts you in close proximity to men, where you are
subservient (since you're seeking employment). Why not draw out the interview
process?
One time I was at a job where they kept interviewing after they had hired me.
I asked them why, and they said my job was safe, they just enjoyed the
interview process. They liked having pretty women alone in their offices with
them begging them for opportunity.
How much do you normally charge for that type of private time in a strip club?
>I was
>selected.
For looks.
>And my boss, who isn't even a man, says I'm the best employee she's ever
>hired.
Is the company owner a woman or a man?
The fact is this bias works in your favor whether or not you need it to. It's
not based in you (though you seem to have no objection to it), but in those who
hire you.
Your survival will not be brought into question because if you need a job,
you'll get one, and only because of how you look. This is how you got through
college, and it's how you'll get by in your career.
Now you may not NEED the safety net, but you have one that most of the country
does not. That's simply unfair. Slavery was unfair, and whites fought to stop
it. Sexism and racism were unfair, and white males fought to stop that. Now
that women have the bias in their favor (with the beauty premium and
affirmative action), they most they can come up with is "get over it."
This shows a lack of ethics that any decent man would be a fool to ignore. A
woman with your belief system has absolutely no utility outside of the bedroom.
>>>>Apparently, women don't mind being sex objects if the price is right, and
>if
>>>>the boss looks but does not touch.
>>>
>>>You use the assets you have.
>>
>>If you're not ethical, you do. If you are ethical, you fight the bias.
>
>Oh do you? And so you are out there, everyday, fighting the unethical
>"lookism"
>in our society by dating fat and ugly women, right?
Dating is not covered by civil rights laws, but EMPLOYMENT is. I do in fact
fight this bias, and I used to fight for women's rights and minority rights
(until I realized their rights didn't need protecting the way the white male's
does these days).
Any ETHICAL woman would fight this as well, since WOMEN are the ones harmed by
it. Of course, those are the "pathetic" women who wouldn't have a prayer of
getting a man you wanted, but they should be able to compete on equal footing
for a job.
You're the one who is best suited to fight that type of bias, yet you refuse
to. That tells me all I need to know about your fitness for love, marriage, or
motherhood. It's nonexistent.
>(Good for you Ray! I'm proud of you.)
Be proud when I catch men (or women) in the act hiring for looks.
Lately I've gone online as a LESBIAN female looking for "office fun." Seems
that many women are as predatory as the men these days, and they are generally
VERY stupid about incriminating themselves.
>>>But my job isn't about being sexy as much as
>>>being
>>>competent.
>>
>>Funny how women never add two and two and think their being hit on at work
>has
>>nothing to do with why they were hired.
>
>That's in your own mind Ray. I work in a situation where I rarely get
>"hit-on".
Yet before you spoke of professional colleagues doing just that. I guess you
have a short memory.
Never mind that no one can verify your specifics so the truth can be anything
you want it to be out here.
>>You're full of shit.
>
>LOL!
You are.
>>>Yeah, that would be my suggestion. When the "hotties" are relaxing. But I
>met
>>>all my boyfriends on-campus. I was more interested in other students.
>>
>>And guys know this as well. Women are everywhere, really.
>
>Yes, they are. And a guy would probably do better at an art gallery than at a
>strip club.
Players tend to visit places like that.
Then again, a woman who is so stupid that she couldn't see through the pretext
isn't that high on my list.
>>>I'm not really a "Bible chick." But I like the social atmosphere. And I
>like
>>>the
>>>choir.
>>
>>I'm sure Jesus is proud.
>
>Jesus is all about forgiveness and compassion. And my sins have not been all
>that great.
Don't bet on your salvation. It's not gonna happen based on your present
existence.
Jesus is not about golddigging, either. Or premarital sex.
>>That camel-eye-needle thing must also suck for you.
>
>Not really.
If you can make your own morality, maybe not.
>>>Lots of burnt out wreckages hang out in those places.
>>>This church has cool social activities and very nice people.
>>
>>Wealthy="nice" in your book. How quaint.
>
>Not so much wealthy as "secure".
>After all, if the goal is marriage and a
>family, those things are important.
Only to a golddigger. Pity the wealthy man who has to settle for such trash.
The ability to TEACH a child should trump even money. Knowledge is power,
especially when one is raising a child. Then again, many wealthy parents
think money is a substitute for parenting.
>Gamblers are extremely insecure. Risky
>investments. They are often addicts who can't quit.
So are "investors." Then again, women tend to make very superficial judgments
of
men without much underlying knowledge. They go for what they see on the
surface and aren't very good at delving beneath.
Keep in mind that by the time you figure out how right I am about all of this,
your looks will be gone and no men will want you anymore.
Men who are in business are also gambling. Your broad brush sweeps over many
men, including those you "respect."
Then again, you're not looking to share the risks, but show up after the race
is over so you can "bet the winner." Quite the follower you are in that.
Men with money tend to see through women like you easily, for if they don't,
they lose most or all of their cash.
Many hotties (especially those younger and prettier than you) expect more from
a man than being an ATM.
>>>And they are not
>>>as
>>>stuffy as one might think. Besides, I am more of a "liberal Christian"
>>>anyway.
>>
>>That comes in very handy if you want to sin or get a job you don't deserve,
>I'd
>>imagine.
>
>Aren't my employers a better judge of what I deserve?
Without knowing who they are, I couldn't say much.
I do know about biases in the workplace in general that you can cash in upon
anytime you need to, and that you don't seem to have much of a problem with.
>>J.Lo thought that about Ben as well. You're not even close.
>
>Now you're being weird again. Pardon me but who gives a f**k about JLo and
>Ben?
Ben showed that even J.Lo could be reduced to a pathetic, crying heap.
Guys like that neurosurgeon will be doing that to you a lot in the next 10-20
years.
>>He might like using you for sex, though.
>
>Then he's in for a surprise.
Not at all. He doesn't have to SAY that's his intent. You're going to have to
win him over, or he can just keep looking elsewhere.
You think wealthy men don't talk about how they get laid?
>>>I
>>>have
>>>excellent growth potential.
>>
>>For wrinkles, maybe.
>
>How old did you say YOU were Ray?
Men age better than women. Women do better in school. School's out for you.
>>>>Of course, if I ever become a millionaire publisher or porn producer, I'll
>>>be
>>>>the "hot prospect" even to you or your golddigging friends.
>
>eeeuwww.."porn".
From an ex-stripper? How amusing.
What I do is a lot cleaner and more artistic than what you did.
>>Women are not "smart investors" when it comes to men. They are like
>400-pound
>>people trying to lecture on nutrition.
>
>Because none have invested in you? Just what would your portfolio look like?
Ah, the "can't get a woman" taunt (inaccurate, as always). And you say you
don't engage in personal attacks.
Women like you are why I created the "pivot" technique. You see me with
another hottie your entire argument is shot to hell.
You speak of men as "investments" they are going to speak of you as golddigging
trash, which you are.
>>I think I said before no decent man would ever love you. Watch how
>"painless"
>>that is for you when you don't get your target.
>
>Uuhh, Ray, your knee is jerking violently. Are you okay?
Much better than you'll be when your heart is broken by the men who don't have
to settle for golddiggers.
I can name dozens of older women who were prettier and more arrogant than you
when they were your age, who would agree with me almost 100 percent now.
Feel free to have any fiance of yours speak up in public to defend your
arguments about what a great "investment" he is.
The DIVORCE boards are full of men who sell their "financial security" yet who
wonder why they got fleeced in divorce court.
>>>Oh Ray, I'm sorry you had to resort to name-calling and insult.
>>
>>You're garbage
>
>Maybe you should have a lie down now? Take a little nappy?
You made attacks in your posting as well, when you weren't busy answering my
very logical arguments with "whatever."
>Eliz
Real name? I'd lay 1000-1 against.
Just remember my words again, because I KNOW you will when the time comes that
you can't deny the truth:
NO DECENT MAN WILL EVER LOVE YOU.
(though many will be happy to use you for sex).
ModernCaveman21
>>seems more like fantasy than fact. As advice, I think it is hopeless. It
>should
>>always be remembered that strip clubs are about seduction, illusion, and
>moving
>>money from point A to point B. I am not ashamed of my former occupation, I
>don't
>>believe I've done anything I need to be ashamed of. But I do feel that it is
>>important to be honest. Men come to this newsgroup looking for honest advice
>>about meeting women, and they could go broke trying to score in a titty bar.
>>Trust me on this one, it's a real and very expensive long shot.
>
>:::::::Eliz, the dialog in this thread between you and Ray was amusing, to
>say the
>least. Some of your comments were refreshingly witty. And I'm sure most
>people here
>like it when they see Ray get incidentally "slapped" around a bit.
By a golddigging bully?
Do you realize the implications of this? She just helps me get what I want
from other strippers.
How? Simple.
Stripper approaches me. Silence.
First thing I do is burn up a minute of her time before tipping her, but I
reach for my wallet enough to keep her there.
I keep a look of slight disgust on my face, like she's an annoyance who
couldn't possibly turn me on.
She asks "what's up?" and I say "If you talk again I'm not tipping you. Take
the money if that's what you want, or if you want to talk, don't expect any
this time around."
Usually she passes on the money. I let her pry out of me what is "wrong" and I
say "nothing."
If I continue along these lines, I point out that I'm only in the club for the
eye-candy, and that strippers have personalities that repulse me.
She asks why.
I start quoting chicks like the "ex-dancer" while conveying value by showing
how superior OTHER WOMEN are to them.
etc. etc. etc.
Pre-emption.
As I've said with anti-player theory, once a chick VERBALIZES her contempt for
a guy, she loses ALL power over him. She can't handle being forced to interact
with a man she's insulted, especially if he doesn't strike back except to let
her know he's on to her.
I remember one time a place I frequent had a hottie working there, and I tried
to engage her in conversation (not my norm). She met my approach with SILENCE.
Later on, I went into the same place, and a fat, ugly chick who worked there
was trying to engage ME in conversation, so I responded with silence. She
asked me what was up and I told her point-blank: "Oh, I get it, if I ignore
you, I'm rude, but if someone here ignores me, it's also on me. How quaint."
The other chick was extremely polite to me after that, once she had seen that I
can do to others, even better, what she was TRYING to do to me.
In a strip club this is even more powerful because all you have to do is SIT
THERE. Communicate what pisses you off once, and every time they approach you
after that they have to deal with the negative anchor, while you're just
minding your business. Tip a reluctant dollar after that, and just use body
language to let them know you think they are trash "just like her."
Now I don't have to USE these methods much, but they are there if I like to do
a "gravity check" to make sure the world hasn't changed. The dancers see "her"
(i.e., the ex-dancer from here) as the reason they have no chance of being
tipped well by me, and if they aren't "nice" to me (with anything short of a
pluck or sex being "nice"), then I have no reason to be "nice" to them.
This is why you see women like that posting their vitrol to USENET and not
speaking it in public.
ModernCaveman21
>>>
>>> What you describe doesn't sound like reality.
>>
>>That's 'cause it isn't. It's "Ray-ality."
>
>On the subject of "strippers" he seems completely misinformed.
Or you are trying to misinform strip club customers out of loyalty to your
former peers.
Men generally don't trust seduction advice they get from other women.
>What he posts
>seems more like fantasy than fact.
>As advice, I think it is hopeless.
You'd probably say that about 95 percent of the advice here.
You also seem to be for sale to the highest bidder, or the most desirable one
who meets your price tag (which appears to be well into the six figures).
>It
>should
>always be remembered that strip clubs are about seduction, illusion, and
>moving
>money from point A to point B.
Strippers HOPE to move the money. That doesn't mean men have to comply with
that.
>I am not ashamed of my former occupation,
Yet you put down those men who made it possible for you to "earn" your money
that way.
>I
>don't
>believe I've done anything I need to be ashamed of.
But your former customers have?
Why else would a stripper rule out customers as a dating option unless she held
them in contempt?
Doesn't add up.
>But I do feel that it is
>important to be honest.
Unless it's about the beauty premium or why jobs come more easily to you, or
about your golddigging with the man who's going to have to feed that habit to
get laid by you.
>Men come to this newsgroup looking for honest advice
>about meeting women, and they could go broke trying to score in a titty bar.
When a visit to a strip club costs less than the COVER CHARGE at a regular
club? How?
>Trust me on this one, it's a real and very expensive long shot.
So if I walk into a club when it's empty, spend $15, get a drink, eat a meal,
tip a few bucks, and get approached by a half-dozen dancers who don't meet many
quality men, this is a bad thing?
HC
>>What he posts
>>seems more like fantasy than fact.
>>As advice, I think it is hopeless.
>
>
>You'd probably say that about 95 percent of the advice here.
What would Britney Spears say you fucking psycho.
Lizex-...@home.noorg
I saw a piece about Brit on tv a couple of weeks back. What a weirdo chick she
is. All she ever does is shop! Hundreds of thousands of dollars on trashy
clothes. I am not saying that I don't like to shop, but please! That is all Brit
ever does!
eLiz
James King
modernc...@aol.com (ModernCaveman21) wrote:
> > > On the subject of "strippers" he seems completely misinformed.
> > > What he posts seems more like fantasy than fact. As advice, I
> > > think it is hopeless. It should always be remembered that strip
> > > clubs are about seduction, illusion, and moving money from point A
> > > to point B. I am not ashamed of my former occupation, I don't
> > > believe I've done anything I need to be ashamed of. But I do feel
> > > that it is important to be honest. Men come to this newsgroup
> > > looking for honest advice about meeting women, and they could go
> > > broke trying to score in a titty bar. Trust me on this one, it's a
> > > real and very expensive long shot.
> > :::::::Eliz, the dialog in this thread between you and Ray was
> > amusing, to say the least. Some of your comments were refreshingly
> > witty. And I'm sure most people here like it when they see Ray get
> > incidentally "slapped" around a bit.
> By a golddigging bully?
> Do you realize the implications of this? She just helps me get what I
> want from other strippers.
> How? Simple.
> Stripper approaches me. Silence.
> First thing I do is burn up a minute of her time before tipping her,
> but I reach for my wallet enough to keep her there.
> I keep a look of slight disgust on my face, like she's an annoyance
> who couldn't possibly turn me on.
You mean you LIE? How *interesting*. Do you let the strippers know that
you're being dishonest with them?
> She asks "what's up?" and I say "If you talk again I'm not tipping
> you. Take the money if that's what you want, or if you want to talk,
> don't expect any this time around."
At the club I worked at, you'd be asked to leave by a bouncer at this
point in time, and either to return when you can be civil to the
dancers, or to never return at all.
You'd be FORCED to leave if you "relucantly" burned up one minute more
of the bouncer's time.
> Usually she passes on the money. I let her pry out of me what is
> "wrong" and I say "nothing."
> If I continue along these lines, I point out that I'm only in the club
> for the eye-candy, and that strippers have personalities that repulse
> me.
Which strip clubs do you frequent? I can tell you about one experience
that I had when I was DJ'ing. There was a guy who came in and did
something very similar to what you're describing. Since he made it
quite clear by his actions that the only reason he wanted to be there
was to insult the dancers one by one as they came up asking for the
obligatory tip. He was quite literally kicked out of the club and was
never allowed into any strip clubs in town operated by the company I
worked for.
> I remember one time a place I frequent had a hottie working there, and
> I tried to engage her in conversation (not my norm). She met my
> approach with SILENCE.
I thought you said that strip clubs were ideal because the women were
required to talk to you and approach you. I guess you were lying about
that, too. But, to be frank, I already knew that.
James King
--
Old Time Radio lives on
at http://www.shadowradio.org
Lizex-...@home.noorg
says...
>
>>>>> Not at all like you describe.
>>>>
>>>> What you describe doesn't sound like reality.
>>>
>>>That's 'cause it isn't. It's "Ray-ality."
>>
>>On the subject of "strippers" he seems completely misinformed.
>
>Or you are trying to misinform strip club customers out of loyalty to your
>former peers.
That's ridiculous. My "former peers" do not need protection from guys on the
internet. It's really the other way around. And why would I care anyway? If a
guy here meets and has a relationship with a dancer - good for him! I'll cheer
him on.
>Men
You mean YOU...
>generally don't trust seduction advice they get from other women.
But they trust it from you, correct?
Well, that is their concern. I was just offering an opinion.
>>What he posts
>>seems more like fantasy than fact.
>>As advice, I think it is hopeless.
>
>You'd probably say that about 95 percent of the advice here.
No, not really. I read and pass making comment on a lot of things. But
"strippers" are something I know about from first hand experience.
>You also seem to be for sale to the highest bidder
Insults...la la la...
>>It
>>should
>>always be remembered that strip clubs are about seduction, illusion, and
>>moving
>>money from point A to point B.
>
>Strippers HOPE to move the money. That doesn't mean men have to comply with
>that.
I never said they did. But a lot of money does get "moved" and that is really
the dynamic that drives the whole thing. Sex, money, seduction, illusion.
Honestly Ray, after my shift, I was usually too tired to think about sex very
much. Hot tub, shower, sleep. Not as sexy and glamorous as the image.
>>I am not ashamed of my former occupation,
>
>Yet you put down those men who made it possible for you to "earn" your money
>that way.
Please quote me ever "putting them down." I don't think less of men who go to
the strip clubs. In no way. If you want to watch a very attractive girl take her
clothes off and perform a seductive dance, I can't think of a better place.
>>I
>>don't
>>believe I've done anything I need to be ashamed of.
>
>But your former customers have?
Did I say that? No!
>Why else would a stripper rule out customers as a dating option unless she held
>them in contempt?
Because there were RULES Ray. Were you listening?
And because I usually had a boyfriend. (And I never cheat on boyfriends.)
Because work was work and play was play. It's advisable to keep work-life and
social-life separate.
>Doesn't add up.
Oh, I think it does. But you will not grasp that.
>>But I do feel that it is
>>important to be honest.
>
>Unless it's about the beauty premium or why jobs come more easily to you, or
>about your golddigging with the man who's going to have to feed that habit to
>get laid by you.
Actually, I'm think along the lines of marriage. I would like to get married and
start a family. Golddiggers usually have no money. I have a good paying job,
money in savings, and some very modest investments.
>>Men come to this newsgroup looking for honest advice
>>about meeting women, and they could go broke trying to score in a titty bar.
>
>When a visit to a strip club costs less than the COVER CHARGE at a regular
>club? How?
You must really be hitting the dives Ray. Strip clubs overcharge for everything.
Including the cover.
>>Trust me on this one, it's a real and very expensive long shot.
>
>So if I walk into a club when it's empty, spend $15, get a drink, eat a meal,
>tip a few bucks, and get approached by a half-dozen dancers who don't meet many
>quality men, this is a bad thing?
Why are those women approaching you? Because you are a "quality man" or because
you are a "mark?" Sort it out Ray. You're also assuming that most dancers can
spot a "quality man." But I know for a fact that many of the men dancers hang
out with outside the club are thugs and losers. It always amazed me to see a
really attractive girl hanging out with some dirtbag pimp wannabee. Until I
realized how fucked up in the head some of those girls really were. (And
remember - this was a "quality" and very pricey club.)
No, not all of them. But many. And that's why me and the "normal" girls took our
social lives as far from the club and the "pros" as possible.
Now, if you're talking about some sleazy dive in Jersey, where beat-up
crack-whore dancers klunk through their routines, ok, I've never been there. But
your advice will not work in any "quality" establishment.
eLiz
ModernCaveman21
>> > amusing, to say the least. Some of your comments were refreshingly
>> > witty. And I'm sure most people here like it when they see Ray get
>> > incidentally "slapped" around a bit.
>
>> By a golddigging bully?
>
>> Do you realize the implications of this? She just helps me get what I
>> want from other strippers.
>
>> How? Simple.
>
>> Stripper approaches me. Silence.
>
>> First thing I do is burn up a minute of her time before tipping her,
>> but I reach for my wallet enough to keep her there.
>
>> I keep a look of slight disgust on my face, like she's an annoyance
>> who couldn't possibly turn me on.
>
>You mean you LIE? How *interesting*. Do you let the strippers know that
>you're being dishonest with them?
What lie? Did I CALL her this?
Remember, "Liz" here has already claimed to speak for all the strippers in the
US.
You didn't snip the part where I said I didn't have to use this method, did
you?
>> She asks "what's up?" and I say "If you talk again I'm not tipping
>> you. Take the money if that's what you want, or if you want to talk,
>> don't expect any this time around."
>
>At the club I worked at, you'd be asked to leave by a bouncer at this
>point in time, and either to return when you can be civil to the
>dancers, or to never return at all.
Tipping is REQUIRED? Not at the clubs I go to. If it's required, it is a
cover charge then.
Why would I be asked to leave if I offer her the money? I've never known a
club to give a rat's ass about a dancer over a customer.
A bouncer who had a testosterone attack like the one you describe wouldn't last
long in a club, as a rule, because he'd piss off the customers. Most clubs
don't like bad blood that way, given the way they exist.
>You'd be FORCED to leave if you "relucantly" burned up one minute more
>of the bouncer's time.
Gee, can you point out a REAL club where this is the case, or is this just an
internet fantasy?
There are ways to do this without being rude, by the way. If she chooses to
talk to me, she can forgo the tip. If she wants the tip, why am I required to
talk to her?
Your "advice" here runs counter to most every field report involving strip
clubs that I've seen, anyway.
>> Usually she passes on the money. I let her pry out of me what is
>> "wrong" and I say "nothing."
>
>> If I continue along these lines, I point out that I'm only in the club
>> for the eye-candy, and that strippers have personalities that repulse
>> me.
>
>Which strip clubs do you frequent? I can tell you about one experience
>that I had when I was DJ'ing. There was a guy who came in and did
>something very similar to what you're describing. Since he made it
>quite clear by his actions that the only reason he wanted to be there
>was to insult the dancers one by one as they came up asking for the
>obligatory tip.
If they don't want to be insulted, they don't have to talk to him.
Which clubs do I frequent? Generally I pick them at random, as being a
"regular" just plain stinks. I might visit two clubs a month, much fewer
lately (since I'm conserving money), anywhere from Maryland to New York
(depends on who has a car or what the public transit is).
New York is best because they have clubs every few blocks if you know which
areas to look for them in.
>He was quite literally kicked out of the club
That's a lawsuit waiting to happen.
>and was
>never allowed into any strip clubs in town operated by the company I
>worked for.
Which company was that? Or does asking personal stuff only work one way with
you? One doesn't need to be insulting to convey an insulting message, either.
These days, of course, one can just put up a "review" website and omit mention
of the club, while talking up the other clubs (no need to trash anyone). It's
not so easy to be a dictator when everyone can fight back online.
Then again, this has NEVER happened to me. It's like saying that the badboy
isn't going to get the girl when everyone knows he will.
Oh, and in the case of the guy who is banned, you can take the "chip" with you,
and use it to justify the same attitude towards other women (not strippers) who
approach you elsewhere, or who need a favor from you. (such as, "sorry, I
can't drive you home in this snowstorm even if your car broke down because
_______ was a stuck-up bitch when I approached her sincerely, and I'm not in
the mood to do any favors for women right now."). Since I'm not asking or
expecting anything, and obviously don't give a fuck if she thinks I'm rude, I
set off that little badboy fetish more often than not.
I don't know if I ever published the "rejection chip" method but it's among the
strongest. It's just nasty so I hate using it, but when I do use it, nothing
(and I mean NOTHING) is more powerful.
It's the male equivalent of what the players call "lockdown" when a hottie does
it. Hotties rarely have it done to them and very few know how to deal with it.
That said, I have methods that don't require this, and haven't used the
rejection chip in a LONG, LONG time. If I'm in a really bad mood, however, it
comes naturally!
>> I remember one time a place I frequent had a hottie working there, and
>> I tried to engage her in conversation (not my norm). She met my
>> approach with SILENCE.
>
>I thought you said that strip clubs were ideal because the women were
>required to talk to you and approach you. I guess you were lying about
>that, too. But, to be frank, I already knew that.
You strip the term "liar" of its meaning the way you toss it around. Your
hardon for criticizing me is so blatantly obvious by now that I doubt anyone
here thinks of you as objective.
Fact is, you're a sniveling little wimp who can only lob mild insults. If I
felt like truly humiliating you, it would be child's play.
You are so banal as for that not to even be worth it. Simply refuting your
logic is more than enough for my purposes.
J...@here.now
>>Not really money so much as I like men who have accomplished things in their
>>lives.
>
>Making millions at sports betting and causing bookies to go bankrupt is not an
>accomplishment?
Yet you have to plead to the courts to get a free handout..
..or, you are lying to them.. ..or lying here..or both..
>I've written eight books. That's an accomplishment.
that you give away, because no real publishing firm will
stop laughing long enough to publish them for real..
>I've written a database software that makes excellent odds lines. That's an
>accomplishment.
Yet you have no money, so you don't even trust it yourself..
>My peak rating in chess is 2000 ("Expert"). That is an accomplishment.
IF true, yes it is..
>I've produced two very popular sexy hypnosis recordings. That's an
>accomplishment.
That, by your own statement, you make no money off of,
and make up a 'hellen' to hawk them. Also, you have never
proven they are 'popular'..except with yer dollies...
>If I wind up knocking down affirmative action, that'll be an accomplishment as
>well.
"..IF.." Remember that word..
NOW..let's see a few other 'accomplishments by grp-ie:
1: Threatens minors in chatrooms.
2: Need I repeat his WTC spew?
3: Roots for women to die of cancer.
4: Wishes harm on a woman's child
for her crime of "..loving.." him..
5: Calls minor girls "..sexual performers.." .
6: Wants to be paid damages in "..hot young women.." .
7: States he is 'jesus'..
8: Lies to the courts..
10: Is afraid of woman..
11: Is afraid of men..
12: Is afraid of his dollies..
13: Is afraid of reality..
14: Hasn't the balls to back up his lawsuit threats..
15: Hasn't the balls to back up his challenges..
16: Pretends to be a woman online..maybe offline too..
17: By doing #16, it makes him want to kill himself..
and the list goes on and on and on, I'm sure I forgot something.
>This is another reason I go undercover online as a pretty female (with a woman
>to voice verify on the phone and serve as a witness) to catch these loser
>bosses in the act. You know damn well that this bias exists, and you'd have to
>be a flat-out liar or flat-out stupid to deny it.
See #17 above.
>You just can't handle it when a man speaks an obvious truth that other men will
>suppress because they know it would piss you off to verbalize it.
Obvious only to you, in 'ray-world'... Even your dollies doubt it..
>If you call me "deluded" over this, you'd have to call Dr. Aharon and about 100
>other researchers deluded as well, which would put me in excellent company.
18: Pretends to be in company with others, fueling his 'ray-ality'...
>Also, your denial of the beauty premium would invariably lead to a personal
>attack if I asked you why the lawyers in my city hire girls out of high school
>(ALL GIRL catholic high schools, I might add), and pass me over.
19: Claims that children are being harmed, yet does nothing about it..
(fueling some fantasy of those "..sexual performers.." I guess..)
>>It's just friends helping friends.
>
>Or meddling. Depends on your spin.
Spoken by a 'person' who has no friends....
>What you describe sounds like the way you want things to be rather than the way
>they are.
POT = KETTEL = BLACK, grp-ie...P=K=B....
>>>Who said I'd offer the food? I said BRING the food. Then eat it.
>>
>>LOL!
>
>Your point?
I love this. grp-ie goes into a scum club, brings food, and
some girl (must be hungry to stop laughing long enough to)
asks for some, and grp-ie..cakehole full of prawns...says "no"..
yeah, she'll fuck him after that... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>Anyone they'd have to truly worry about wouldn't be the slightest bit
>intimidated by them.
One can see grp-ie knows no real 'bouncers'.. What a ma-roon-ie..
>There's always someone tougher on the block.
In grp-ie's case, that person is his dolly (s)...
>If you're saying your character judgments of men are accurate 100 percent of
>the time, that's another issue and one I doubt many would agree with you on.
While nothing is 100%, she makes more sense then you ever do/could/will...
>It's very easy to make these denials when you know they can't be verified.
POT = KETTEL = BLACK, grp-ie...P=K=B....
>Just because the neurosurgeon is too naive and stupid to think about stuff like
>this, its relevance is not decreased.
grp-ie is jealous...again....
>You also demonstrate my point that a man can't really stand up to you on the
>things that you don't want to hear about. If you try to bully him and he calls
>you on it, he's showing backbone. However, if he calls you on your REAL
>bullshit -- like you get ahead in life on any kind of merit and not because
>losers with money want to have sex with you -- then he knows too much and must
>be ostracized.
>
>When you are 40 or 45 (even 35) and your world crashes, you won't be able to
>deny it so easily, because then you'll be divorced and unattractive. In fact,
>if you talk to women in that age range now, who were once as pretty as you are
>now, you'll find many who understand exactly what I speak of now and who are
>finally willing to start admitting it.
>
>Many of them try to rewrite history, claiming they were young and stupid, but
>you prove they were just young, arrogant, short-sighted, dishonest, and just
>plain unethical.
WOW..put on the boots, grp-ie's bullshit is getting real deep...
>One time I was at a job where they kept interviewing after they had hired me.
>I asked them why, and they said my job was safe, they just enjoyed the
>interview process. They liked having pretty women alone in their offices with
>them begging them for opportunity.
And you believed them? Why don't you still work there? Care to name
this 'job'..? I wonder what they would have to say about you?
..oh wait, you are just what 'reality' calls 'grp-ie farting'..spewing shit..
>Lately I've gone online as a LESBIAN female looking for "office fun." Seems
>that many women are as predatory as the men these days, and they are generally
>VERY stupid about incriminating themselves.
grp-ie thinks pretending to be a woman (NOW a lesbian! HAHAHA) in
chat rooms makes for real proof of what he claims..HAHAHAHAHAHA !
>Never mind that no one can verify your specifics so the truth can be anything
>you want it to be out here.
POT = KETTEL = BLACK, grp-ie...P=K=B....
>>>You're full of shit.
>>
>>LOL!
>
>You are.
Fancy comback.."I know you are but what am I.."...
>>>I'm sure Jesus is proud.
>>
>>Jesus is all about forgiveness and compassion. And my sins have not been all
>>that great.
>
>Don't bet on your salvation. It's not gonna happen based on your present
>existence.
>
>Jesus is not about golddigging, either. Or premarital sex.
Like you would know. Jesus (the real one, no you, grp-ie)
IS about forgiveness and compassion. You shouldn't
pretend to be something you know nothing about..
OR..is you stating you are 'jesus' like you pretending
to be a woman (now a lesbian) online..? yuk-yuk-yuk..
>If you can make your own morality, maybe not.
POT = KETTEL = BLACK, grp-ie...P=K=B....
>>>>>Of course, if I ever become a millionaire publisher or porn producer, I'll
>>>>be the "hot prospect" even to you or your golddigging friends.
"..if I ruled the world, everyday would be the 1st day of spring.."
>What I do is a lot cleaner and more artistic than what you did.
Yeah, nothing like threatening minors online, pretending to be
a lesbian online, and claiming to be 'jesus' to be clean & artistic..
excuse me: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !
>I can name dozens of older women who were prettier and more arrogant than you
>when they were your age, who would agree with me almost 100 percent now.
A false claim since you don't know what the poster looks like...
>>Eliz
>
>Real name? I'd lay 1000-1 against.
That means alot coming from Ray "..I'm jesus.." Gordon, grp-ie...
>NO DECENT MAN WILL EVER LOVE YOU.
Spoken by a man with no love, or relationship in his life..
>(though many will be happy to use you for sex).
and who can't get laid either...
JJT
Gordon Roy Parker, aka 'Ray Gordon', aka <lemoder...@aol.com>,
turned on his TV, and on the date of September 11, 2001, uttered and
posted on the Internet, while innocent people were burning to death:
"I have no respect for those who died. That's the point."
"I am expressing my lack of sympathy for the loss
of a bunch of self-centered, asshole New Yorkers"
"Once again: no significant loss of life in those Towers."
"I'm not the one who blew them up, am I?
I just laugh at the poetic justice of it all."
"No one of any significance died in that blast."
"No significant loss of life in those towers. Not a single one."
"Pretty damn good day at the office if you ask me,
especially since I'm not the one who hijacked the planes."
"May those who died today rot in the hell they deserve."
"A bunch of asshole New Yorkers died...don't grieve.
No significant loss of life in those Towers...not a one!"
For more info, do a simple Google search on any of the 100's of names
he has posted under, or in Newsgroups dated on &/or after 9/11/2001
HC
I mentioned Britney Spears because it seems everytime she makes headlines (most
recently when she kissed Madonna) Ray starts believeing she's his girlfriend or
that he knows her, or that he somehow has something "going on" with her.
Everytime Ray sees any hottie on TV he thinks that.
Yesterday he was talking about Paris Hilton like he's in her circle, parties at
the same places, or even breathes the same air that she does. He must have seen
her on the E! network.
But what Ray really wants to do with Britney is lick the lint from between her
toes . . . isn't that right, Ray?
HypnoDommeSeductoFetishToeSucker.com/RayGordon
Paul Robinson
> You strip the term "liar" of its meaning the way you toss it around.
Look who is talking!
> Your hardon for criticizing me is so blatantly obvious by now that I doubt anyone
>
> here thinks of you as objective.
Almost anyone here would take that quote and presume it was being used AT you, not
BY you.
> Fact is, you're a sniveling little wimp who can only lob mild insults.
Hahahahahahahaahahahahahah, oh that is just too funny.
Pot. Kettle. Black.
> If I felt like truly humiliating you, it would be child's play.
Like a wasted skeleton, you don't have the guts.
> You are so banal as for that not to even be worth it.
I really need to include that in my all-time favorite quotes of yours, seeing as
how it comes from the epitome of banality.
> Simply refuting your logic is more than enough for my purposes.
You haven't even come close to refuting any logic by anyone.
.
--
Paul Robinson "Above all else... We shall go on..."
"...And continue!"
"If the lessons of history teach us anything it is
that nobody learns the lessons that history teaches us."
Trainspotter
> >>>> Not at all like you describe.
> >>>
> >>> What you describe doesn't sound like reality.
> >>
> >>That's 'cause it isn't. It's "Ray-ality."
> >
> >On the subject of "strippers" he seems completely misinformed.
>
> Or you are trying to misinform strip club customers out of loyalty to your
> former peers.
Her advice doesn't particularly help her former peers. She's basically
discouraging attendance at strip clubs. She's saying a guy would do
better at a normal club, at church, or at an art gallery. How does
that help her former peers?
>
> Men generally don't trust seduction advice they get from other women.
If they do, they are probably making a mistake.
>
>
> >What he posts
> >seems more like fantasy than fact.
> >As advice, I think it is hopeless.
>
> You'd probably say that about 95 percent of the advice here.
>
> You also seem to be for sale to the highest bidder, or the most desirable one
> who meets your price tag (which appears to be well into the six figures).
If she is concentrating one hundred percent on money, then she would
indeed be foolish. But it seems like she wants the entire
package...and money is only a part of that package. Why do you blame
her for that? Is she supposed to raise her future kids in a ghetto?
Should she instead be aiming for a disease ridden drug dealing
crack-head? Is that what YOU are aiming for? I doubt it.
To be fair, I do think she is a bit high on herself (though I like her
posts). In terms of social status, she believes herself to be the
equal of the neurosurgeon. She is not. Not by a long shot.
The amount of effort, talent and skill - and let me stress EFFORT -
that goes into becoming a neurosurgeon is unreal. We think of 40 hour
work weeks as being normal...during training those guys sometimes work
40 hour SHIFTS. Then a few hourse at home...literally a few
hours...and then back again. It is totally insane. Talk to someone who
has been through it and it will be shocking. You can't talk to someone
who is currently going through it...a five minute conversation is a
luxury they don't have.
Nobody should compare their accomplishments to that of a neurosurgeon
lightly, or frankly the other professions as well. That successful
doctor or lawyer didn't get where they are today NEARLY as easily as
it often looks. In any event, even if they got where they are easily -
which they didn't - they are still members of elite professions. Not
many jobs stack up in terms of prestige.
BUT, if we take the presentation of her life at face value...she could
still be a match for him. If she is indeed hot, has been responsible
(no slutting out with scumbags, hard drugs, whatever), and has her act
together...sounds like a good catch to me. She clearly has a quick
wit, which is a real plus because most hot girls seem to lack that.
The reality is that it is damn hard to find a girl the combines the
above traits. It's EASY to get a girl with one or two such
traits...but the whole package? Incredibly rare. In that sense, while
she may not be his equal in accomplishments, she may well be his
romantic equal. Maybe it will work out with them, and maybe not. But
it would be a legitimate match.
Coincidentally, I know a neurosurgeon who was married last month. He
should have done as well. He got the good looking part of the
package...but not much else. And yes...he'll probably end up paying
big time for his mistake.
>
> Yet you put down those men who made it possible for you to "earn" your money
> that way.
I'm not sure that she is doing that, but if she is...yes, it is
unseemly. Unfortunately, many if not most lines of work engender a
certain contempt for customers. Doctors joke about patients, waiters
tend to develop a certain contempt for customers, etc.
>
> >I
> >don't
> >believe I've done anything I need to be ashamed of.
>
> But your former customers have?
I'm not sure she's saying that.
>
> Why else would a stripper rule out customers as a dating option unless she held
> them in contempt?
>
> Doesn't add up.
Same reason many people won't date people they work with at the
office. Complications. Doesn't necessarily mean contempt.
>
> >But I do feel that it is
> >important to be honest.
>
> Unless it's about the beauty premium or why jobs come more easily to you, or
> about your golddigging with the man who's going to have to feed that habit to
> get laid by you.
Ray, there are many qualities that probably help in the job market.
Do you oppose the fact that many people have their jobs on the basis
of a winning personality...even though strictly speaking that winning
personality has nothing to do with their job performance?
I doubt you'll give a straight answer to this question, because you
know it will open a helluva can of worms. Much easier to stay fixated
on the much vaunted beauty premium. The truth is that there are
innumerable factors that grant advantages which, strictly speaking,
have nothing to do with their job performance.
Human beings aren't robots...there are nuances at work. Employees are
often "more" than job performance alone, though I still maintain that
job performance is most of the story.
>
>
> >Men come to this newsgroup looking for honest advice
> >about meeting women, and they could go broke trying to score in a titty bar.
>
> When a visit to a strip club costs less than the COVER CHARGE at a regular
> club? How?
I agree with you. It can be done on the cheap.
>
> >Trust me on this one, it's a real and very expensive long shot.
>
> So if I walk into a club when it's empty, spend $15, get a drink, eat a meal,
> tip a few bucks, and get approached by a half-dozen dancers who don't meet many
> quality men, this is a bad thing?
Doesn't seem bad to me.
James King
modernc...@aol.com (ModernCaveman21) wrote:
> >> > :::::::Eliz, the dialog in this thread between you and Ray was
> >> > amusing, to say the least. Some of your comments were
> >> > refreshingly witty. And I'm sure most people here like it when
> >> > they see Ray get incidentally "slapped" around a bit.
> >
> >> By a golddigging bully?
> >
> >> Do you realize the implications of this? She just helps me get
> >> what I want from other strippers.
> >
> >> How? Simple.
> >
> >> Stripper approaches me. Silence.
> >
> >> First thing I do is burn up a minute of her time before tipping
> >> her, but I reach for my wallet enough to keep her there.
> >
> >> I keep a look of slight disgust on my face, like she's an
> >> annoyance who couldn't possibly turn me on.
> >
> >You mean you LIE? How *interesting*. Do you let the strippers know
> >that you're being dishonest with them?
>
> What lie? Did I CALL her this?
You specifically said that Liz helps you get what you want from other
strippers, and then you demonstrate exactly how. By lying. By pretending
to be disgusted with the stripper when in fact you really would like to
have sex with her.
> Remember, "Liz" here has already claimed to speak for all the
> strippers in the US.
Where did she say that? I'm unable to find that message in my Google
search. Please cite the message-id or Google link where she claimed to
speak for all the strippers.
> You didn't snip the part where I said I didn't have to use this
> method, did you?
Well, it seems that you said that Liz's post just helps you get what you
want, and you are demonstrating how. You did say that you don't use the
method much, but that merely proves that you have used the method. And
it shows that you likely intend to use the method in the future.
> >> She asks "what's up?" and I say "If you talk again I'm not tipping
> >> you. Take the money if that's what you want, or if you want to
> >> talk, don't expect any this time around."
> >At the club I worked at, you'd be asked to leave by a bouncer at
> >this point in time, and either to return when you can be civil to
> >the dancers, or to never return at all.
> Tipping is REQUIRED? Not at the clubs I go to. If it's required, it
> is a cover charge then.
I was talking about the extremely rude treatment of the dancers. At one
of the clubs I worked at, if you didn't tip the dancers, you'd be asked
to leave. If you refused, they might have let you stay that day, but
they'd never let you return. Others didn't mind if you bought enough at
the bar.
But $20 or less? No way.
> Why would I be asked to leave if I offer her the money? I've never
> known a club to give a rat's ass about a dancer over a customer.
Well, that's the difference in quality and class between the clubs you
appear to frequent and even the blue-collar clubs I worked at, much less
the white-collar "A-list" clubs Liz appears to have worked at.
> A bouncer who had a testosterone attack like the one you describe
> wouldn't last long in a club, as a rule, because he'd piss off the
> customers. Most clubs don't like bad blood that way, given the way
> they exist.
Our management would have most definitely sacrificed one customer who
spent less than $20 per visit if his treatment of the dancers was
extremely rude and inconsiderate in the manner you discuss above.
> >You'd be FORCED to leave if you "relucantly" burned up one minute
> >more of the bouncer's time.
> Gee, can you point out a REAL club where this is the case, or is this
> just an internet fantasy?
I can point out several. I won't, though, because I do not to entertain
the possibility that you will harass those clubs in an attempt to get
personal information about me, even though it has been nearly 4 years
since I have worked in a strip club.
> There are ways to do this without being rude, by the way.
Yet your scenario was deliberately designed to be as rude as possible.
Why was that?
> If she
> chooses to talk to me, she can forgo the tip. If she wants the tip,
> why am I required to talk to her?
> Your "advice" here runs counter to most every field report involving
> strip clubs that I've seen, anyway.
*shrug* I call it as I see it. I worked in the clubs, so I'm aware of
the dynamic in some strip clubs from my perspective as a DJ. Whether it
agrees with everyone else or not is immaterial.
> >> Usually she passes on the money. I let her pry out of me what is
> >> "wrong" and I say "nothing."
> >> If I continue along these lines, I point out that I'm only in the
> >> club for the eye-candy, and that strippers have personalities that
> >> repulse me.
> >Which strip clubs do you frequent? I can tell you about one
> >experience that I had when I was DJ'ing. There was a guy who came in
> >and did something very similar to what you're describing. Since he
> >made it quite clear by his actions that the only reason he wanted to
> >be there was to insult the dancers one by one as they came up asking
> >for the obligatory tip.
> If they don't want to be insulted, they don't have to talk to him.
They can also remove customers who are dragging down the upbeat party
atmosphere that many clubs strive to achieve and maintain.
> Which clubs do I frequent? Generally I pick them at random, as being
> a "regular" just plain stinks.
Funny then, how you discussed having dancer "pivots" in clubs. How can
you have a pivot without being a regular?
> I might visit two clubs a month, much
> fewer lately (since I'm conserving money), anywhere from Maryland to
> New York (depends on who has a car or what the public transit is).
> New York is best because they have clubs every few blocks if you know
> which areas to look for them in.
> >He was quite literally kicked out of the club
> That's a lawsuit waiting to happen.
A lawsuit that never happened, to my knowledge. The cops understand when
someone is trying to maintain order in the club. Insulting the dancers
creates an undesirable atmosphere in the clubs, and in my experience
contributes to violence in the club.
> >and was never allowed into any strip clubs in town operated by the
> >company I worked for.
> Which company was that? Or does asking personal stuff only work one
> way with you? One doesn't need to be insulting to convey an
> insulting message, either.
But the intent is to insult. Thank you for demonstrating your intent.
> These days, of course, one can just put up a "review" website and
> omit mention of the club, while talking up the other clubs (no need
> to trash anyone). It's not so easy to be a dictator when everyone
> can fight back online.
Unfortunately, most people know of strip clubs by word of mouth and
radio ads, not from an online review posted on someone's GeoCities site.
> Then again, this has NEVER happened to me. It's like saying that the
> badboy isn't going to get the girl when everyone knows he will.
> Oh, and in the case of the guy who is banned, you can take the "chip"
> with you, and use it to justify the same attitude towards other women
> (not strippers) who approach you elsewhere, or who need a favor from
> you. (such as, "sorry, I can't drive you home in this snowstorm even
> if your car broke down because _______ was a stuck-up bitch when I
> approached her sincerely, and I'm not in the mood to do any favors
> for women right now."). Since I'm not asking or expecting anything,
> and obviously don't give a fuck if she thinks I'm rude, I set off
> that little badboy fetish more often than not.
So if you get rejected by a stripper, you tell women that you refuse to
show any human decency to them because a stripper told you while she was
on the job that she wouldn't have sex with you, and that doing this
creates an interest in you from the woman who asked for something.
> I don't know if I ever published the "rejection chip" method but it's
> among the strongest. It's just nasty so I hate using it, but when I
> do use it, nothing (and I mean NOTHING) is more powerful.
Of course it is. <snicker>
James King
Lizex-...@home.noorg
says...
>
>>>Insulting WOMEN now are you?
>>
>>No, just beat-up old crank whores.
>
>Which can be defined as any "woman" who doesn't behave as you specify, unless
>you're speaking literally of "crank whores" that men don't need to settle for,
The girls that end up on drugs and on the decline end up in the low-end clubs.
>in which case you can consider yourself refuted.
That is really important to you, isn't it?
>>I was simply pointing out a fact Ray - you talk about "quality" women and yet
>>you expect to lure one with a ten dollar bill and a bar-b-qued chicken wing
>>while treating them like zoo animals.
>
>It's a little more involved than that.
>
>Actually, when I do seduce strippers, it's almost exclusively through my
>interest in erotic hypnosis, and ability to teach it (my "gimmick"). The food
>and not spending are just tactical advantages.
LOL! You are going to insist on that "food" thing aren't you? That's so sad.
>You don't win over a stripper with a small amount of money, but instead by not
>forking over a large amount of it.
Since the purpose of stripping is making money, money does get attention. If
many girls think you're rich...things can change rapidly.
>Reverse the genders: many beautiful women use their sexuality to get what they
>want without putting out.
Yes, we do! But I don't attend male strip clubs.
>>Quality women are going to see that as
>>baffoonish and insulting.
>
>And what do they do then? Insult a customer who did tip them (if only a
>dollar), didn't act crude, and who is intelligent and polite in a club that
>would otherwise be empty? Doubt it. An empty club NEEDS men there to give the
>impression that the dancers aren't desperate. I can therefore help them earn
>money even if I don't spend it myself.
Again, I've never worked in an empty or semi-empty club. It never pays to be
rude to the customers, the one's spending big money especially. There was never
anything "desperate" about the club I worked at.
>>>More like I'd walk into the club with some food, sit down, eat it, ignore
>>the
>>>dancers, and don't tip more than $1.00 when they approach me.
>>
>>And here is another thing that just doesn't seem to be going into your skull
>>-
>>they won't let you do that in any reputable club!
>
>Tip a dollar per visit?
No, bring in take-out orders of food!
>Clubs that do NOT serve food encourage men to bring it.
Maybe some down and out dump in a strip mall someplace.
>If they sell food, I just buy my dinner there. No difference.
Sigh...in our club and in many others, dinner is not served in the "dance room."
You DO know that don't you?
>>>If they want conversation, they can't ask for money. You'd be surprised at
>>the
>>>number of dancers that don't care about the money.
>>
>>I am surprised that someone claiming to be a "seduction expert" is so
>>incredibly
>>naive.
>
>I'm surprised that a professed ex-stripper is in such denial about what really
>transpires in the clubs.
I've never met any dancers who didn't care about the money.
>By the way, a dancer I know who has won awards,
Which ones?
> has said that she believes men
>can pick up dancers in the "quality" clubs.
It's not impossible. I never said that it was. But you better have a lot going
for you. Money and looks, otherwise honey, it ain't happening. It isn't going to
happen for a guy throwing around dollar bills with one hand while holding a
bucket of chicken wings in the other.
>She agreed with me that they are still women and still have trouble finding
>quality men. In fact, most in the adult entertainment industry I speak to say
>that the women tend to let their emotions get the best of them and fall for
>customers.
Is that a fact? :)
Perhaps my standards are way too high.
>Is that so shocking? Who understands a stripper better: a man who has gone to
>strip clubs or one who hasn't?
I do not believe you know them better than someone who WAS one and who has
several close friends who also used to dance. I can't answer for all "strippers"
everywhere and in every club, but I am not convinced that you really know what
you're talking about.
>How can you be proud of what you did for money yet insult the men who paid your
>wages? Doesn't add up.
Never said that.
>>>>The "pros" are quite often very jaded because of the life they've lived. A
>>>>great
>>>>many of the young women I worked with came from really bad backgrounds.
>>>>Really
>>>>fucked up family situations. Many have seen the worst side of men for far
>>too
>>>>long to be easily impressed. This wasn't the case with me. I came to it
>>from
>>>>a
>>>>dance background. I've been in dance classes since I was four years old. It
>>>>was
>>>>simple economics.
>>>
>>>And sexual ethics.
>>
>>If you have trouble with the "sexual ethics" of women who work in the clubs,
>>then why do you go there? You're an "activist", right? Why aren't you
>>standing
>>out in front of the strip club proclaiming it a den of harlotry?
>
>Because strippers are HONEST about what they do to earn their money.
You are not being consistent. On one hand you look down on dancers as zoo
animals, then you praise their honesty?
> Corporate
>eye-candy are not. They want a respectability they haven't earned.
Most strippers could not get a job in business. They don't have the skills.
>As an activist, I fight the greater evil.
Ooooooh, I'm impressed! The fur industry? Big oil? Save the rainforest? No
nukes? The WTO? I know an anarchist. He's so cute.
>>>Many of the women you put down are more ethical than you are.
>>
>>The "crank whores?" I don't see anything particularly "ethical" about being a
>>crank whore, no.
>
>You mean your dead friend?
I have no dead friends who were crank whores.
>Not all dancers are crank-whores,
Of course not.
>but most pretty
>women in corporate America are hired eye-candy.
Of course not!
>Strippers come in many flavors. Yours and your dead friend's are but two of
>them, at the extremes.
I think you have me mixed up with someone else. My best ex-dancer friend is
married to an accountant. She has a little boy and lives in a suburb outside of
Portland.
>>>>>Most tend to be pretty good at that, but if the PUA demonstrates value,
>>>>he'll
>>>>>definitely be remembered, as will the frequency with which he visits.
>>>>
>>>>And demonstrating "value", to a dancer, means forking over the cash!
>>>
>>>Wrong. It means being the type of man who WON'T fork over the cash.
>>
>>(Shaking head - tsk tsk) That's counterintuitive and contradicts your own
>>previous statements about women only being interested in money.
>
>Not at all. A man who doesn't waste money on strippers is very smart with his
>money.
Well at last there is something we can agree on.
>>>>>Does that include Billy Walters or his crew? If you ever danced in Vegas
>>>>you
>>>>>would know who that man is.
>>>>
>>>>The name is familiar. But I am not a gambling groupie.
>>>
>>>You were a money groupie, though.
>>
>>Not really money so much as I like men who have accomplished things in their
>>lives.
>
>Making millions at sports betting and causing bookies to go bankrupt is not an
>accomplishment?
No, not to me. Because it is NOT just about the money. Gamblers rate at the
bottom of my list of possibles.
>I've written eight books. That's an accomplishment.
Indeed! It is. Are they available at Barnes & Noble?
>I've written a database software that makes excellent odds lines. That's an
>accomplishment.
Betting?
>My peak rating in chess is 2000 ("Expert"). That is an accomplishment.
I play chess occasionally.
>I've produced two very popular sexy hypnosis recordings. That's an
>accomplishment.
Hypnosis?
>If I wind up knocking down affirmative action, that'll be an accomplishment as
>well.
Oh really? You and George Bush Jr.
>>That have a passion.
>
>Translation: it's easier to say you like a man's "accomplishments" than his
>MONEY.
Because it's true. Your gambler dude, whats-his-name, is probably much richer
than a neurosurgeon. But I couldn't ever respect what he does.
>>In college I dated other students and an
>>athelete.
>
>So? Men know that they can get laid by being in shape.
"Men?" How do you come to these weird conclusions?
>If my mind weren't so sharp, I'd probably cash in on this more. I simply do
>not need to.
Goody.
>>I
>>dated guys that made much less than I did.
>
>Did you MARRY them?
Of course not! I wanted to have a career first. I didn't want to get married at
21.
>Women look for many things in men. Men are fortunate in that regard. With
>women, their looks are their meal ticket.
Shrug. Being attractive doesn't hurt.
>>>>sleazy about "the gambler" types. And they are not usually very physically
>>>>fit.
>>>>I was then and am now a total fitness nut.
>>>
>>>Because your body is your meal ticket, even at a "regular" job.
>>
>>Because my body has to last me a lifetime and I feel better when I am in
>>shape.
>
>Your body is also your meal ticket, even at your "regular" job.
Not true.
>>>Women like that are little more than corporate Hooter girls.
>>
>>If it makes you feel good to think that way, delude yourself.
>
>You're the delusional one, and this is where I lose respect for women. What do
>you know that the world's top neurologists do not?
>
>The "beauty premium" is well documented in corporate America. Of course, if
>you benefit from this premium, you're not going to admit it becuase, well, it
>makes you look bad.
It may be one factor. It isn't the crucial one. Having the educational
background, and the professional credentials are the important factors.
>This is another reason I go undercover online as a pretty female (with a woman
>to voice verify on the phone and serve as a witness) to catch these loser
>bosses in the act. You know damn well that this bias exists, and you'd have to
>be a flat-out liar or flat-out stupid to deny it.
So do you cross-dress too? (How odd.) Not that I am prejudiced or anything.
>You just can't handle it when a man speaks an obvious truth that other men will
>suppress because they know it would piss you off to verbalize it.
I'm not pissed off. I AM quite amused though.
>If you call me "deluded" over this, you'd have to call Dr. Aharon and about 100
>other researchers deluded as well, which would put me in excellent company.
Did I ever say that looks don't help? I don't think so.
>One requirement any man who wants to fuck you will have to meet is to enable
>your denial of the advantages your body gives you in the job market. Such men
>are either stupid or dishonest, and therefore inferior relationship and
>marriage material, as well as inferior father material.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
>Unethical people hook up with each other and have dishonest relationships.
Uhuh...(filing nails.)
>>>>And like I have said, I've seen what gambling has done to people. It's an
>>>>ugly
>>>>lifestyle.
>>>
>>>Someone wins the money those guys lose.
>>
>>I have an ethical problem with gambling.
>
>But not one with taking a job or a higher salary because of how you look.
In my case it isn't true.
>How is gambling inherently unethical?
Spend some time in Vegas. There is a very real social consequence for the
fast-money life-style. I don't even like going there any more.
>>>>We've been down this road before. If someone disagrees with you, you go off
>>>>on
>>>>them.
>>>
>>>You seem more guilty of that yourself.
>>
>>I'm not making personal attacks, you are.
>
>You've made several personal attacks.
Saying that I believe you are wrong about something is not a personal attack.
>Also, your denial of the beauty premium
I don't believe I've denied any such thing. I deny that it much of anything to
do with me getting hired.
>Either you have to admit the bias or engage in a personal attack against me.
Now that is bullshit.
>>>>Assuming, of course, that I have a lot of respect for the other dancer. If
>>>>one
>>>>of my studemt/dancer friends introduced the guy, sure, maybe. But a couple
>>of
>>>>the "pros" that I knew had really shitty taste in men.
>>>
>>>PUAs talk about using friends to slip under the woman's radar.
>>
>>Uhh, yeah, PUAs. Whatever.
>
>Wow, that's definitive. "Whatever!"
"Player" types leave me cold.
>I hope the other men reading this here realize that you have essentially
>attempted to discredit all the fine theory by one former poster here about how
>to pluck strippers from their clubs (he claimed eight plucks from canadian
>clubs where they have REAL dancers who make the Vegas women look like trash).
Of course Ray, everyone knows that the hot strip scene is in backwoods Nova
Scotia.
>Also, Vegas strippers tend to be VERY undesirable, simply because the real
>dancers in that town don't have to strip, because they can be showgirls.
Have you ever actually been to Vegas?
>>>That you'd give more credence to a recommendation of a friend means you have
>>>little faith in your own judgment of men.
>>
>>No it doesn't Ray. It means that I have a few friends that have a good eye
>
>Another myth, and one that is forgotten by the time the negative impact
>materializes.
Oh, I should trust you and not girls I've known for eight to ten years?
>Not only that, a friend will keep the best finds for herself.
Not really. But then, you don't seem to know very much about women either.
>>and
>>if they meet a guy and suggest an introduction, I'll give it a shot.
>
>For all you know the guy may be calling in a favor and you're the favor.
Sure, no problem. I've doubled as a favor for a friend. One date can't hurt. And
my friends know better than fix me up with some weirdo.
>It's bypassing the critical factor, and one of the key methods that PUAs rely
>on. See "ignore the target." You've basically just admitted that you fall
>into one of the worst type of player traps.
What?
>>I
>>introduced one of my best friends to her husband.
>
>How long have they been married? You won't know for years if your introduction
>was wise. Then again, if you live in the moment, you won't concern yourself
>with this.
Three years, and very happy. :)
>>It's just friends helping
>>friends.
>
>Or meddling. Depends on your spin.
:P
Have to cut this short. I have to get ready for work now. Enjoy your weekend.
eLiz
HC
>In article <20030918034446...@mb-m22.aol.com>, ModernCaveman21
>says...
>>in which case you can consider yourself refuted.
>
>That is really important to you, isn't it?
>
It's his life.
Odious
Lizex-...@home.noorg wrote:
>
> In article <20030915171530...@mb-m16.aol.com>, LeModernCaveman
> says...
> >>
> >>Your statement is extremely naive. But who knows, maybe it does work with
> >>some
> >>beat up old crank whores.
> >
> >Insulting WOMEN now are you?
>
> No, just beat-up old crank whores.
>
Hey leave Ray's mom out of this.
Odious
Lizex-...@home.noorg wrote:
>
> In article <BB8D08D1.1B56E%akau...@nyc.rr.com>, Alex says...
> >
> >in article RgE9b.20422$cJ5....@www.newsranger.com, Lizex-...@home.noorg
> >at Lizex-...@home.noorg wrote on 9/16/03 9:31 AM:
> >
> >>> Not at all like you describe.
> >>
> >> What you describe doesn't sound like reality.
> >
> >That's 'cause it isn't. It's "Ray-ality."
>
> On the subject of "strippers" he seems completely misinformed. What he posts
> seems more like fantasy than fact. As advice, I think it is hopeless.
It is, but you have to understand that ray's goal is not to achieve
success with women, but rather to find some way to prop up his little
narcissistic fantasy world. The illusion the strip joint sells allows
ray to maintain his warped little fantasy world.
Lizex-...@home.noorg
>
>
> looks like she's afraid to answer the question
> for some reason.
Oh bull...Actually, I have a real job and can't spend all day on line answering
questions. And I need to get ready for a party with friends right now, so let's
make this quick:
Question: "What is the likelihood of Joe Ordinary scoring with a stripper on any
given evening?"
My quess is less than his likelihood by meeting a non-stripper at a party and
getting lucky. Most people hook up at parties.
Yes, of course I am speaking from my own perspective. Everybody here does. But I
really believe that a strip club is a lousie long-term investment for a guy
looking to get laid.
Maybe if you targetted a single girl. And you became her fan. And you invested a
lot of money and time. And talked to her frequently. And you let her know you
were very serious - maybe.
But leave your bucket of prawns and your dollar bills at home.
I really have to run.
GO OUT AND HAVE FUN!
eLiz
>AlphaHot1 <A...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:35:34 GMT, Lizex-...@home.noorg wrote:
>>
>>>On the subject of "strippers" he seems completely misinformed. What he posts
>>>seems more like fantasy than fact. As advice, I think it is
>>>hopeless. It should
>>>always be remembered that strip clubs are about seduction, illusion,
>>>and moving
>>>money from point A to point B. I am not ashamed of my former
>>>occupation, I don't
>>>believe I've done anything I need to be ashamed of. But I do feel that it is
>>>important to be honest. Men come to this newsgroup looking for honest advice
>>>about meeting women, and they could go broke trying to score in a titty bar.
>>>Trust me on this one, it's a real and very expensive long shot.
>>
>>:::::::Eliz, the dialog in this thread between you and Ray was
>>:::::::amusing, to say the
>>least. Some of your comments were refreshingly witty. And I'm sure
>>most people here
>>like it when they see Ray get incidentally "slapped" around a bit.
>>
An Metet
above. Always use cryptographic digital signatures to verify
the identity of the sender of any usenet post or e-mail.
>
> >>>> Not at all like you describe.
> >>>
> >>> What you describe doesn't sound like reality.
> >>
> >>That's 'cause it isn't. It's "Ray-ality."
> >
> >On the subject of "strippers" he seems completely misinformed.
>
> Or you are trying to misinform strip club customers out of loyalty to your
> former peers.
>
> Men generally don't trust seduction advice they get from other women.
And they certainly don't trust advice from you, the only person here who CLAIMS to be an
expert but commands NO RESPECT from anyone.
edo
Odious <Odi...@cox.nospam.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> LeModernCaveman wrote:
> >
>
> You gotta love how this loser tries to play off the fact he spends all
> his free time in strip clubs where girls have to be paid to even
> acknowledge he exists, as if it is some kind of indication of how
> successful he is with women.
Or he could be like you just fake pictures or download them from elsewhere and edit them in a way where it appears you are successful with women...
> Anybody who actually knows any strippers can tell you they have a word
> for idiots like ray, and it is "mark."
And what did the women you had to pay to get to pose with you call you, but "sucker,"
or "LOSER who wears fake fangs."
> And sure it is possible that the kind of skank factory that would be open
> on a sunday at noon and would let you bring food in, might have the kind
> of drug addicted head case who would fuck a guy like ray if he pretends
> he has money... afterall he did pick up that raging case of herpes
> somehow.
Say, how's your AIDS, Odorous?
> But just the fact that ray's life is such a bucket of shit that he would
> brag... yes BRAG about going to low grade strip clubs to pick up on
> skanks, and even then he has to literally bait them with food and lie to
> them to get the time of day, proves that everything people have been
> saying about ray being a pitiful fraud is clearly true.
Or he could be like you, BRAG about shit you aren't getting over the internet and at your pathetic web site.
LeModernCaveman
>> for some reason.
>
>Oh bull...Actually, I have a real job
Read: corporate eye-candy.
>and can't spend all day on line
>answering
>questions. And I need to get ready for a party with friends right now,
Bragging, now.
>so
>let's
>make this quick:
>
>Question: "What is the likelihood of Joe Ordinary scoring with a stripper on
>any
>given evening?"
>
>My quess is less than his likelihood by meeting a non-stripper at a party and
>getting lucky.
The non-stripper you cite for Joe Ordinary here will not measure up to the
stripper he could get. The thing about strip clubs is you have a better shot
in them if you're not a club type, with much better women than the clubs have,
and at lower cost (figure the time cost of having to adjust your schedule to a
regular club's, but being able to visit a strip club at your leisure).
>Most people hook up at parties.
YOU may do that, but not everyone does. "Parties" can be rigged very easily in
a guy's favor, it's true.
>Yes, of course I am speaking from my own perspective. Everybody here does.
>But I
>really believe that a strip club is a lousie
You mean LOUSY?
I guess spelling wasn't one of the job requirements for you.
>long-term investment for a guy
>looking to get laid.
Actually it's one of the best:
1. The clubs are open during set hours for most of the afternoon and evening.
2. If you time it right, you can go when you're literally the only customer in
the club, or one of no more than two or three (especially in really bad weather
at off times).
3. She has to stay there; you don't. If you don't like what you see, you can
leave, while she can't.
4. No cover charge during the best times to go.
5. If you want to use money as a weapon, the cost is $300.00 (if a guy makes
$100 an hour or more it is worth considering since the money is meaningless to
him).
6. STRIPPERS LIKE SEX.
7. Strippers are better looking than what you find on average.
8. At the strip club, they approach you, not the other way around.
Forget everything else; these are important advantages that give the player the
equivalent of a 3-0 count in baseball.
>Maybe if you targetted a single girl. And you became her fan. And you
>invested a
>lot of money and time. And talked to her frequently. And you let her know you
>were very serious - maybe.
That would be like advising a woman to put out for a rich guy for a year and
"maybe" she'll get his money.
More likely, she'll want to get serious with a guy only after he shows he
doesn't want her (she thinks he's better than her if he ignores her).
>But leave your bucket of prawns and your dollar bills at home.
>I really have to run.
What do you have against prawns and ribs?
I know especially the black dancers in my city LOVE ribs (stereotype or not
they seem to!), and I've never gotten a negative reaction to food. It also
lets me do two things at once, thus saving time and an extra trip.
James King
lemoder...@aol.com (LeModernCaveman) wrote:
> You mean LOUSY?
>
> I guess spelling wasn't one of the job requirements for you.
I seem to remember someone excusing their consistenly poor spelling in
posts by saying that, unfortunately, USENET doesn't pay very well.
Now who would that be?
James King
Odious
edo wrote:
>
> In article <3F64FE76...@cox.nospam.net>
> Odious <Odi...@cox.nospam.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > LeModernCaveman wrote:
> > >
> >
> > You gotta love how this loser tries to play off the fact he spends all
> > his free time in strip clubs where girls have to be paid to even
> > acknowledge he exists, as if it is some kind of indication of how
> > successful he is with women.
>
> Or he could be like you just fake pictures or download them from elsewhere and edit them in a way where it appears you are successful with women...
>
So you admit that my pictures appear to show I am successful with women.
First you claimed they proved nothing and showed nothing, now you claim
they do show me as successful with women, but they are faked. Which is
it?
> > Anybody who actually knows any strippers can tell you they have a word
> > for idiots like ray, and it is "mark."
>
> And what did the women you had to pay to get to pose with you call you, but "sucker,"
> or "LOSER who wears fake fangs."
Roger, make up your mind, are my pictures faked or are they real with
girls who were paid to pose with me? You can not even keep your bullshit
accusations straight for one whole post.
> > And sure it is possible that the kind of skank factory that would be open
> > on a sunday at noon and would let you bring food in, might have the kind
> > of drug addicted head case who would fuck a guy like ray if he pretends
> > he has money... afterall he did pick up that raging case of herpes
> > somehow.
>
> Say, how's your AIDS, Odorous?
As nonexistent as your self-respect, Roger.
> > But just the fact that ray's life is such a bucket of shit that he would
> > brag... yes BRAG about going to low grade strip clubs to pick up on
> > skanks, and even then he has to literally bait them with food and lie to
> > them to get the time of day, proves that everything people have been
> > saying about ray being a pitiful fraud is clearly true.
>
> Or he could be like you, BRAG about shit you aren't getting over the internet and at your pathetic web site.
Where's your proof? Without anything to back up your claims, you're just
some coward hiding behind an anon remailer spewing bullshit.
Lizex-...@home.noorg
says...
He is like a sad child that no magic can fix.
eLiz
Lizex-...@home.noorg
says...
>
>>> looks like she's afraid to answer the question
>>> for some reason.
>>
>>Oh bull...Actually, I have a real job
>
>Read: corporate eye-candy.
How long are you going to beat that straw woman?
>>and can't spend all day on line
>>answering
>>questions. And I need to get ready for a party with friends right now,
>
>Bragging, now.
Simply stating a fact. I have a life off line.
>>so
>>let's
>>make this quick:
>>
>>Question: "What is the likelihood of Joe Ordinary scoring with a stripper on
>>any
>>given evening?"
>>
>>My quess is less than his likelihood by meeting a non-stripper at a party and
>>getting lucky.
>
>The non-stripper you cite for Joe Ordinary here will not measure up to the
>stripper he could get. The thing about strip clubs is you have a better shot
>in them if you're not a club type, with much better women than the clubs have,
>and at lower cost (figure the time cost of having to adjust your schedule to a
>regular club's, but being able to visit a strip club at your leisure).
Sigh...this is so wrong headed.
>>Most people hook up at parties.
>
>YOU may do that, but not everyone does. "Parties" can be rigged very easily in
>a guy's favor, it's true.
You seem to have this need to "rig" things. Why is that? Can't you just go to a
party, relax with friends and enjoy yourself?
>>Yes, of course I am speaking from my own perspective. Everybody here does.
>>But I
>>really believe that a strip club is a lousie
>
>You mean LOUSY?
>
>I guess spelling wasn't one of the job requirements for you.
Isn't that why they made spell check?
>>long-term investment for a guy
>>looking to get laid.
>
>Actually it's one of the best:
>
>1. The clubs are open during set hours for most of the afternoon and evening.
>
>2. If you time it right, you can go when you're literally the only customer in
>the club, or one of no more than two or three (especially in really bad weather
>at off times).
>
>3. She has to stay there; you don't. If you don't like what you see, you can
>leave, while she can't.
So you like the fact that they are prisoners? Does that make you feel strong?
>4. No cover charge during the best times to go.
>
>5. If you want to use money as a weapon, the cost is $300.00 (if a guy makes
>$100 an hour or more it is worth considering since the money is meaningless to
>him).
>
>6. STRIPPERS LIKE SEX.
>
>7. Strippers are better looking than what you find on average.
Oh, why thank you! :)
>8. At the strip club, they approach you, not the other way around.
>
>Forget everything else; these are important advantages that give the player the
>equivalent of a 3-0 count in baseball.
LOL! This is funny stuff! Yes, "strippers" like sex. Two I knew liked having it
with other women, one with her black porn star boyfriend, and another could only
enjoy it if she was beating the shit out of some poor sad guy.
>>Maybe if you targetted a single girl. And you became her fan. And you
>>invested a
>>lot of money and time. And talked to her frequently. And you let her know you
>>were very serious - maybe.
>
>That would be like advising a woman to put out for a rich guy for a year and
>"maybe" she'll get his money.
You can love a rich man just as much as a poor man.
>More likely, she'll want to get serious with a guy only after he shows he
>doesn't want her (she thinks he's better than her if he ignores her).
More misleading advice.
>>But leave your bucket of prawns and your dollar bills at home.
>>I really have to run.
>
>What do you have against prawns and ribs?
I generally don't eat red meat. Prawns are wonderful. But I'm not turned on by
watching some guy brownbag them in some dive in Jersey.
>I know especially the black dancers in my city LOVE ribs (stereotype or not
>they seem to!), and I've never gotten a negative reaction to food. It also
>lets me do two things at once, thus saving time and an extra trip.
Those must be real special places Ray.
LOL!
eLiz
Odious
Lizex-...@home.noorg wrote:
>
> In article <20030920113908...@mb-m11.aol.com>, LeModernCaveman
> says...
> >
> >>> looks like she's afraid to answer the question
> >>> for some reason.
> >>
> >>Oh bull...Actually, I have a real job
> >
> >Read: corporate eye-candy.
>
> How long are you going to beat that straw woman?
>
Ray can't stand the idea that there are women who are better than him, in
jobs where Ray claims to be an expert on the subject matter, like law or
stocks etc.. See Ray is a narcissist, and he hates women. So the idea
of a woman being better than him at something, bothers him so much that
he has to invent this fantasy world where all women who get the jobs he
thinks he deserves, are just being hired for sex.
Ray can't admit that the reason he can't get these jobs is that he is an
abrasive anti-social asshole with little or no skill to speak of, so he
blames women.
> >>and can't spend all day on line
> >>answering
> >>questions. And I need to get ready for a party with friends right now,
> >
> >Bragging, now.
>
> Simply stating a fact. I have a life off line.
>
To Ray, that is bragging. Ray's idea of a great Saturday night is not
getting bounced from the skid row strip club for a whole hour, instead of
his usual 16 minutes.
> >>so
> >>let's
> >>make this quick:
> >>
> >>Question: "What is the likelihood of Joe Ordinary scoring with a stripper on
> >>any
> >>given evening?"
> >>
> >>My quess is less than his likelihood by meeting a non-stripper at a party and
> >>getting lucky.
> >
> >The non-stripper you cite for Joe Ordinary here will not measure up to the
> >stripper he could get. The thing about strip clubs is you have a better shot
> >in them if you're not a club type, with much better women than the clubs have,
> >and at lower cost (figure the time cost of having to adjust your schedule to a
> >regular club's, but being able to visit a strip club at your leisure).
>
> Sigh...this is so wrong headed.
>
We all know that Ray's full of shit... most of us have known that since
he showed up here. The fact is that strip clubs are the very worst place
to pick up women, because the girls are FAKING IT. THat's what ray is
too stupid or too desperate to understand. Women in strip clubs will
tell you anything to get your money... they will let you think that you
can get some, let you think they really like you etc. It is all about
getting your money.
But the fact is that fake affection from a stripper is the very best ray
can ever hope for.
> >>Most people hook up at parties.
> >
> >YOU may do that, but not everyone does. "Parties" can be rigged very easily in
> >a guy's favor, it's true.
>
> You seem to have this need to "rig" things. Why is that? Can't you just go to a
> party, relax with friends and enjoy yourself?
>
No he can't. A narcissist can not function unless he is the center of
attention. At a party where there are people who are not being paid to
act like Ray is the man, he'd lose it. The idea of approaching and
meeting a woman on equal ground, scares the shit out of ray. For Ray to
be rejected at a party, surrounded by people watching him fail, that is
beyond what ray can cope with. So he makes up excuses and creates this
fantasy world to avoid any kind of reality check.
> >>long-term investment for a guy
> >>looking to get laid.
> >
> >Actually it's one of the best:
> >
> >1. The clubs are open during set hours for most of the afternoon and evening.
> >
> >2. If you time it right, you can go when you're literally the only customer in
> >the club, or one of no more than two or three (especially in really bad weather
> >at off times).
> >
> >3. She has to stay there; you don't. If you don't like what you see, you can
> >leave, while she can't.
>
> So you like the fact that they are prisoners? Does that make you feel strong?
>
More accurately it makes him feel safe. Ray knows she's paid not to be
truthful about how gross ray is... and even if some chick does come out
and tell ray what a fucking repugnant slob he is, Ray can always RUN
AWAY. Strippers are the only women ray can interact with for just these
reasons. They are less threatening than a woman on the street or at a
club or party who isn't being paid to be nice to ray.
Alex
wrote on 9/21/03 6:29 PM:
> The fact is that strip clubs are the very worst place
> to pick up women, because the girls are FAKING IT. THat's what ray is
> too stupid or too desperate to understand. Women in strip clubs will
> tell you anything to get your money... they will let you think that you
> can get some, let you think they really like you etc. It is all about
> getting your money.
Strip clubs are certainly more difficult than regular clubs, bars,
bookstores, the street, etc.
But that doesn't mean it's impossible to do.
Saddam Insane
> Making millions at sports betting and causing bookies to go bankrupt is not an
> accomplishment?
Making millions? Causing bookies to go bankrupt??? Which ones have you
bankrupted???????
You're fucking BROKE. At least that's what you claimed under oath.
> If I wind up knocking down affirmative action, that'll be an accomplishment as
> well.
Which is the goal of any white male LOSER who blames all his problems
on those mean ol' niggers who "stole his job".
Bob'sy...@yahoo.com
I have serious doubts that Ray has been away from Internet Porn and
this wesite long enough to have made it out to an "actual live" strip
club.
2.99 a minute, "Mean anything Ray?"
Hahah!
On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 15:29:59 -0700, Odious <Odi...@cox.nospam.net>
wrote:
James King
soad...@hotmail.com (Saddam Insane) wrote:
> modernc...@aol.com (ModernCaveman21) wrote in message
> news:<20030918034446...@mb-m22.aol.com>...
> > Making millions at sports betting and causing bookies to go
> > bankrupt is not an accomplishment?
> Making millions?
He's claimed in this newsgroup to have an income of less than $15,000
per year. So perhaps he was talking about making millions of pennies.
Saddam Insane
> In article <1d80e998.03092...@posting.google.com>,
> soad...@hotmail.com (Saddam Insane) wrote:
>
> > modernc...@aol.com (ModernCaveman21) wrote in message
> > news:<20030918034446...@mb-m22.aol.com>...
>
> > > Making millions at sports betting and causing bookies to go
> > > bankrupt is not an accomplishment?
>
> > Making millions?
>
> He's claimed in this newsgroup to have an income of less than $15,000
> per year. So perhaps he was talking about making millions of pennies.
>
> James King
What I don't get is where he claims to be "against affirmative
action." But then demands that employers hire ugly women. The idea
behind affirmative action is that the employer is not free to hire
whoever he wants but must hire proportionately from certain protected
groups. So if he TRULY was against AA then he would be in favor of the
employer hiring whoever he pleases. If he wants to hire unqualified
pretty young women instead of ugly women or blacks or males then that
would be his choice. By demanding that employers hire from groups Ray
deems "underrepresented" he is in fact ADVANCING and SUPPORTING
Affirmative Action!!!
Lizex-...@home.noorg
A few times, in Vegas, some of my friends and I visited some other clubs,
including some very seedy looking places. They would be pretty depressing places
to work. It made me very glad that I at least worked in a top of the line club.
It would also seem to me that Ray could get a very negative idea about women in
general habituating those sleazy dives.
eLiz
JMBCV
Odious <Odi...@cox.nospam.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> edo wrote:
> >
> > In article <3F64FE76...@cox.nospam.net>
> > Odious <Odi...@cox.nospam.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > LeModernCaveman wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> > > You gotta love how this loser tries to play off the fact he spends all
> > > his free time in strip clubs where girls have to be paid to even
> > > acknowledge he exists, as if it is some kind of indication of how
> > > successful he is with women.
> >
> > Or he could be like you just fake pictures or download them from elsewhere and edit them in a way where it appears you are successful with women...
> >
>
Which is it, because you sure as hell aren't successful with women, no matter how many of your shills you blow to say it is true.
>
> > > Anybody who actually knows any strippers can tell you they have a word
> > > for idiots like ray, and it is "mark."
> >
> > And what did the women you had to pay to get to pose with you call you, but "sucker,"
> > or "LOSER who wears fake fangs."
>
>
> Roger,
Guess again, dipshit.
> make up your mind,<dancing>
Making you dance and babble in circles of nothing is priceless.
>
>
> > > And sure it is possible that the kind of skank factory that would be open
> > > on a sunday at noon and would let you bring food in, might have the kind
> > > of drug addicted head case who would fuck a guy like ray if he pretends
> > > he has money... afterall he did pick up that raging case of herpes
> > > somehow.
> >
> > Say, how's your AIDS, Odorous?
>
>
> As nonexistent as your self-respect,
You mean, as nonexistent as your love life, Odorus the fake seduction "guru."
And you do have AIDS. That might be the motivation as to why you make up this bullshit about actually succeeding with women.
> Roger.
Wrong, dumbass.
>
> > > But just the fact that ray's life is such a bucket of shit that he would
> > > brag... yes BRAG about going to low grade strip clubs to pick up on
> > > skanks, and even then he has to literally bait them with food and lie to
> > > them to get the time of day, proves that everything people have been
> > > saying about ray being a pitiful fraud is clearly true.
> >
> > Or he could be like you, BRAG about shit you aren't getting over the internet and at your pathetic web site.
>
> Where's your proof?
Anybody can read ANY of your posts and see that. Thay are like the bullshit brag that you were a big shot in the FX industry, which turned out to be another lie. Or how you were ran out of alt.flame, morphed into Odious and hid out here....btw, SPANK.
> Without anything to back up your claims, you're just
> some coward hiding behind an anon remailer spewing bullshit.
Muwhahahahahahaha...how pathetic. Odorous the 'bot has a limited response mechanism.
Better get that hardware updated, son, you're destined for the junk pile.
HC
>Making you dance and babble in circles of nothing is priceless.
Is this jackass reading the same articles that we are?
Looks to me like the anon freak is the one doing the dancing with Odious
holding the marionette strings.
Dance freak, dance!
LeModernCaveman
>>
>>Read: corporate eye-candy.
>
>How long are you going to beat that straw woman?
Until teenage girls stop developing eating disorders because they know that
being thin is the key to them getting a decent job.
See, this is the first step in your denial: You HAVE to believe you got where
you are on merit, so you have to try to discredit any man who challenges that,
and simultaneously you reward the men who tell you what you want to hear.
These men of course don't believe you, but they're smart "players" and know
what to say to get you to like the way they think.
You then wonder why these men "change" on you down the road, but they haven't
changed at all, you just don't have any use for them beyond their initial
purpose and therefore see them as they are.
HeeroYuy
"LeModernCaveman" <lemoder...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030927162433...@mb-m02.aol.com...
Yet another woman tells you that you are full of shit Ray, and you attempt
(failing miserably I might add) to insult her. Don't ever demand that women
come in here again, for we have seen from women past the results.
Lizex-...@home.noorg
says...
>
>>>>Oh bull...Actually, I have a real job
>>>
>>>Read: corporate eye-candy.
>>
>>How long are you going to beat that straw woman?
>
>Until teenage girls stop developing eating disorders because they know that
>being thin is the key to them getting a decent job.
If you are opposed to the so-called "beauty premium", you should only date fat
and ugly women Ray. You wouldn't want to be accused of hypocrisy. By pursuing
beautiful women, you support the thing you oppose.
>See, this is the first step in your denial: You HAVE to believe you got where
>you are on merit,
And you NEED to believe that no attractive woman can get a job on merit alone.
So who is in denile?
>You then wonder why these men
Which men?
eLiz
Odious
JMBCV wrote:
>
> In article <3F6CAAA2...@cox.nospam.net>
> Odious <Odi...@cox.nospam.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > edo wrote:
> > >
> > > In article <3F64FE76...@cox.nospam.net>
> > > Odious <Odi...@cox.nospam.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > LeModernCaveman wrote:
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > You gotta love how this loser tries to play off the fact he spends all
> > > > his free time in strip clubs where girls have to be paid to even
> > > > acknowledge he exists, as if it is some kind of indication of how
> > > > successful he is with women.
> > >
> > > Or he could be like you just fake pictures or download them from elsewhere and edit them in a way where it appears you are successful with women...
> > >
> >
> > So you <circles of nothing>
>
> Which is it, because you sure as hell aren't successful with women, no matter how many of your shills you blow to say it is true.
>
LOL! Poor Roger, still has to cut and run when he fucks up.
"you just fake pictures or download them from elsewhere and edit them in
a way where it appears you are successful with women..."
So you admit that my pictures appear to show I am successful with women.
First you claimed they proved nothing and showed nothing, now you claim
they do show me as successful with women, but they are faked. Which is
it?
LOL!! You fucked up again Roger. Why do you even bother trying to flame
me, or anybody for that matter, when all you do is trip over your own
stupidity?
> > > > Anybody who actually knows any strippers can tell you they have a word
> > > > for idiots like ray, and it is "mark."
> > >
> > > And what did the women you had to pay to get to pose with you call you, but "sucker,"
> > > or "LOSER who wears fake fangs."
> >
> >
> > Roger,
>
> Guess again, dipshit.
Every time you have to deny who you are, you only reaffirm that you've
been spanked so fucking hard you have to pretend to be someone else.
> > make up your mind,<dancing>
>
> Making you dance and babble in circles of nothing is priceless.
>
Roger, you never change... you try so hard and when you fall flat of your
face, you try to claim you made the other person trip you.
> >
> >
> > > > And sure it is possible that the kind of skank factory that would be open
> > > > on a sunday at noon and would let you bring food in, might have the kind
> > > > of drug addicted head case who would fuck a guy like ray if he pretends
> > > > he has money... afterall he did pick up that raging case of herpes
> > > > somehow.
> > >
> > > Say, how's your AIDS, Odorous?
> >
> >
> > As nonexistent as your self-respect,
>
> You mean, as nonexistent as your love life,
No, Roger, I mean exactly what I wrote, and every time you have to lie
about who you are to hide from the shame and embarrassment of the
repeated spankings to which you've been subjected by just about everybody
in every group you've ever slithered into, you prove I'm right.
>Odorus the fake seduction "guru."
> And you do have AIDS. That might be the motivation as to why you make up this bullshit about actually succeeding with women.
>
Where's your proof? Without anything to back up your claims, you're just
some coward hiding behind an anon remailer spewing bullshit.
> > Roger.
>
> Wrong, dumbass.
>
Nope, Roger is the right dumbass.
> >
> > > > But just the fact that ray's life is such a bucket of shit that he would
> > > > brag... yes BRAG about going to low grade strip clubs to pick up on
> > > > skanks, and even then he has to literally bait them with food and lie to
> > > > them to get the time of day, proves that everything people have been
> > > > saying about ray being a pitiful fraud is clearly true.
> > >
> > > Or he could be like you, BRAG about shit you aren't getting over the internet and at your pathetic web site.
> >
> > Where's your proof?
>
> Anybody can read ANY of your posts and see that.
Where's your proof? Without anything to back up your claims, you're just
some coward hiding behind an anon remailer spewing bullshit.
> Thay are
LOL! Same old roger, a remailer may hide your identity, but it can not
disguise your ignorance.
> like the bullshit brag that you were a big shot in the FX industry,
> which turned out to be another lie.
LOL! And you continue to claim you're not roger, yet you still have your
panties in a knot over the things I posted in alt.flame years ago. How
sad is it that some shit I posted almost 7 years ago, STILL has you doing
the run around?
> Or how you were ran
LOL! More of "your your learning disability?"
Roger always starts making more and more errors like that when his shitty
flames start to collapse in on him.
>out of alt.flame, morphed into Odious and hid out here....btw, SPANK.
Poor Roger still so desperate to score a spank on me after I spanked his
sorry ass so hard he had to run off and hide behind remailers and now has
to lie about who he is on a daily basis.
The fact is, Roger, that nobody spanked me out of anywhere. I got bored
stomping on incapable and incompetent idiots like you, who after getting
so roundly thrashed in a flame war, would resort to off-line harassment
of family and co-workers because they knew they'd never have the verbal
or mental skill to best me online.
I found seducing women, and teaching men how to seduce women, to be a
much more worthwhile and rewarding pursuit on which to focus my skills,
then stomping on the lumpy melons of retarded half-wits like yourself,
Roger.
I know that the only thing you hate more than being repeatedly out flamed
and spanked by me, is being left behind, dismissed, and disregarded by
me. I forgot you even existed and moved on to more interesting things,
yet you are still the same sad desperate little troll you were then,
still languishing in the doldrums of your own ignorance, and trying to
get some measure of revenge for the humiliation you suffered at my hand.
> > Without anything to back up your claims, you're just
> > some coward hiding behind an anon remailer spewing bullshit.
>
> Muwhahahahahahaha...how pathetic. Odorous the 'bot has a limited response mechanism.
> Better get that hardware updated, son, you're destined for the junk pile.
Says the fool still spewing the same inept shit flames he was spewing
back in 97 when I first spanked his sorry ass off alt.flame.
Odious
LeModernCaveman wrote:
>
> >>>Oh bull...Actually, I have a real job
> >>
> >>Read: corporate eye-candy.
> >
> >How long are you going to beat that straw woman?
>
> Until teenage girls stop developing eating disorders because they know that
> being thin is the key to them getting a decent job.
>
Umm ray, that's not why the women around you are throwing up all the
time.
Odious
As it always was.
To understand Roger, imagine Ray with all his proclivity for saying
incredibly stupid and embarrassing things, minus the mental disorder that
prevents him from realizing how ridiculous he sounds and being ashamed
and embarrassed by it.
That's why Roger has to hide behind a remailer... because of the mountain
so stupid fuck-ups and racist quotes that can be found in his posting
record. He tries to flame, but he just sucks at it, so he gets
frustrated and that's when he starts spewing the really stupid shit.
I was personally responsible for a thread which provoked Roger to spew a
line that still haunts him to this very day. It was even part of my sig
for a while.
_________________________________________________________________
In <59v8q8$r...@news.mountain.net> cr...@ovnet.com (Roger Wiseman)
whines for a man meat pacifier:
"... so don't try to put words in my mouth like you put other
men's penises."
_________________________________________________________________
Then of course he gets embarrassed, has to change his screen name or hide
behind remailers, and tries to get revenge by harassing people's friends
and family off-line.
Paul Robinson
> LeModernCaveman wrote:
>
> > >How long are you going to beat that straw woman?
> >
> > Until teenage girls stop developing eating disorders because they know that
> > being thin is the key to them getting a decent job.
> >
>
> Umm ray, that's not why the women around you are throwing up all the
> time.
Ooooh, nice insult. I give you two points.
--
Paul Robinson "Above all else... We shall go on..."
"...And continue!"
"If the lessons of history teach us anything it is
that nobody learns the lessons that history teaches us."