To Jules: and other Female ASFers... (is lilith still here?)
RaverDJ
go out and try them, but on TONS of girls.. it is a numbers game (well, at
my stage anyways, but I am sure most will agree). It would be cool to have
feedback on each tool or tip that we seem to hold sacred... like
"the 3 second rule"
maybe judge the effectiveness of a few patterns
Rate importance of Kino, EV, best ways to gain rapport
insight into chick logic and why girls flake/blur
Shit tests (conscious vs. unconscious)
and just other basic things from the female perspective.
also, how did you find out about this group? And aside from Ray and other
... mentally challanged... people around here (and the influx of n00bs), how
accurate do you find these methods to be (successful?)
Just curious.
RAFC+
RaverDJ
--
newbies: most of your questions are answered here:
please do your own homework and read the resources before posting.
FAQ: http://www.fastseduction.com/asf-faq.shtml
Info: http://www.fastseduction.com
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Jules
In article <Ewms7.9631$Ko.48...@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net>, "RaverDJ"
<positively_ionicAThotmailDOTcom> wrote:
> I am just curoius to hear what WOMEN think about these methods... Sure
> guys
> go out and try them, but on TONS of girls.. it is a numbers game (well,
> at
> my stage anyways, but I am sure most will agree). It would be cool to
> have
> feedback on each tool or tip that we seem to hold sacred... like
It's a numbers game like any other...Hell, baseball is a numbers
game....but it doesn't hurt to train like Nomar...
>
> "the 3 second rule"
Defintely works. Might not have to be three seconds, you have maybe
30...but go longer than that and one of two things will happen. you'll
love your nerve, or the chick will think you're stalking her. Or she'll
walk away into the ether.
You must act and act fast.
>
> maybe judge the effectiveness of a few patterns
Hmmm...patterns can tell you what you want to see, so you need to be
really honest with yourself when you're assessing your progress. I
thinka few guys here, based on some of the reports, are not assessing
realistically.
You need to see who to contiunue on with and who to skip out on...why
waste time with a HB 8 who's maybe not buying it, when a HB 10 is just
waiting for you?
What sort of patterns specifically do you mean?
>
> Rate importance of Kino, EV, best ways to gain rapport
90% of communication is done with tone, posture, eyes, touch and smell.
The rest is details. I think most guys here will agree you can say the
dumbest shit in the world and it'll still work if you have the other
angles going.
Look like the alpha (get thee to a zoo and check out the chimps or read
Carl Sagan's Secrets of Forgotten Ancestors) Stand tall, speak calmly,
and slowly, with voice modulation. Get in her space, without being
invasive. Touch when you have been allowed into the space.
Don't go shifty eyed, makes you look nervous, or hostile or
untrustworthy or all of the above.
And above all laugh! Smile! Look like you're having a good time! Behave
as though she is *important* but don't buy her a drink...hehheh.
You need to create intimacy immediately...spin a web around her. See,
men don't scope as surreptitiously as girls. We always know when you're
looking..you never know if we are, unless we let you.
When you pick a target, she is the only one you see (until, of course,
you get bored, then pick another and do it again) It'll make her feel
special. Got a gorgeous one? Don't say a damn thing about her
looks...focus on her brains or humour. If she has neither, skip her or
fuck her fast. You won't want to stick around too long.
>
> insight into chick logic and why girls flake/blur
Big secret time: We are as confused as you are. Women are used to being
wanted for sex. So their apprehensive. You're probably concerned about a
chick taking you for your cash, right? So that's part of it. We don't
know what we want any more than you do.... do we want to get laid? Is
this the one? does he think I'm pretty/fat/dumb/easy? Is he a wife
beater, got a girlfriend, small dick? It's almost the same shit you're
thinking....only difference is we've got ovaries and you don't ; >0
Also, some women are awful people. Take a bar with a hundred people. 50
men, 50 women. Chances are 10 of each gender are assholes. 30 are okay,
but so unsure they act like assholes. 5 are decent. And five are upfront
(and I'm being generous here) Ferret out the 10 bitches, and focus on
the others.
If you really want to know why women flake, ask yourself why men do.
>
> Shit tests (conscious vs. unconscious)
No idea what this is. Sorry. Is that like negging?
>
> and just other basic things from the female perspective.
Here's one....take a porn movie. And in that porn the chick is giving a
blowjob to a guy with a huge dick. Chances are, she's *behaving* as
though this is the highlight of her day, possibly her life. Is it
really? Naw...she doens't know where it's been, her mouth is sore, her
jaw aches, her knees hurt and she probably hasn't (and might not)
orgasmed yet. But she looks like she loves it.... Because that way, it
gets the other person (the actor and the audience) more into it...they
become a part of that reality, caught up in it...
If you behave in a certain way, like you're miserable and terrified,
she'll know. Behave like you're enjoying this, even the rejections
(because those, in the long run help you more) and she'll become
fascinated.
Never mention a relationship or any serious commitment when you meet her
or on the first few dates.
Never talk about exes. If asked, say it ended. Period.
Consider this. The world is full of too much sex and not enough erotica.
Don't tell her you were diagnosed as depressed, got abused, wet your
bed, any of that shit, until there's a serious commitment. She won't
care anyway, it'll freak her out.
Never lie about love to get a chick in bed. It'll come back to bite you
in the ass.
And most of all, if you meet the one, really the one (not the one for
this week) stop playing the game.
>
> also, how did you find out about this group?
Someone crossposted one of the posts into another group I'm subbed to.
Caught my eye...so I read a bit and liked it.
And aside from Ray and other
> ... mentally challanged... people around here (and the influx of n00bs),
> how
> accurate do you find these methods to be (successful?)
Ray amuses me...I'm still waiting for his reply (bated breath and all
that)
My guess is if you do them and don't pansy ass out half way through,
you'll do well. Awful for me to say this, but that book for women, The
Rules? That shit worked. It was awful but it worked.
You need to commit to them, though, like any plan.
But, and this is kinda sad, if you don't have some of the goods (looks
or charm or numour or brains) not much will work. Even the best
strategy. The guys here seem to have at least one of the above in each
of their favours.
Just don't hate women too much because of it. You might end up laid a
lot but you also might end up pretty goddamned miserable
<stepping off of her soapbox>
>
> Just curious.
hope some of the above made sense..I'm slightly drunk and tired....
jules
--
Remove the last me to mail me
--
To hold a pen is to be at war.
--Voltaire
Bet For A Living
>> guys
>> go out and try them, but on TONS of girls.. it is a numbers game (well,
>> at
>> my stage anyways, but I am sure most will agree). It would be cool to
>> have
>> feedback on each tool or tip that we seem to hold sacred... like
>
>It's a numbers game like any other...Hell, baseball is a numbers
>game....but it doesn't hurt to train like Nomar...
It's a numbers game only when you stop caring about women as individuals and
start looking for the YES rather than someone you actually like.
>> "the 3 second rule"
>
>Defintely works. Might not have to be three seconds, you have maybe
>30...but go longer than that and one of two things will happen. you'll
>love your nerve, or the chick will think you're stalking her. Or she'll
>walk away into the ether.
Does that make her smart?
>
>You must act and act fast.
Why? To get an idiot woman to like me?
>> maybe judge the effectiveness of a few patterns
>
>Hmmm...patterns can tell you what you want to see, so you need to be
>really honest with yourself when you're assessing your progress. I
>thinka few guys here, based on some of the reports, are not assessing
>realistically.
>
>You need to see who to contiunue on with and who to skip out on...why
>waste time with a HB 8 who's maybe not buying it, when a HB 10 is just
>waiting for you?
Isn't she only waiting three seconds?
What do you think of "MLTR?"
>What sort of patterns specifically do you mean?
Those designed to induce hypnosis and lower her sexual resistance without her
knowing what's going on.
>> Rate importance of Kino, EV, best ways to gain rapport
>
>90% of communication is done with tone, posture, eyes, touch and smell.
>The rest is details. I think most guys here will agree you can say the
>dumbest shit in the world and it'll still work if you have the other
>angles going.
If you're dealing with idiot sluts, definitely.
>Look like the alpha (get thee to a zoo and check out the chimps or read
>Carl Sagan's Secrets of Forgotten Ancestors) Stand tall, speak calmly,
>and slowly, with voice modulation. Get in her space, without being
>invasive. Touch when you have been allowed into the space.
So your message to the "nice guys" is to start invading women's space and
touching them?
Do you also agree that men shouldn't do favors for women, shouldn't spend money
on them, and shouldn't tolerate being "just friends," like this group
advocates?
>Don't go shifty eyed, makes you look nervous, or hostile or
>untrustworthy or all of the above.
When did women become experts on male character? If they are experts, do they
WANT all the "badboys" they cry about down the road?
>And above all laugh! Smile! Look like you're having a good time! Behave
>as though she is *important* but don't buy her a drink...hehheh.
>You need to create intimacy immediately...spin a web around her.
You should tell the chumps in your life that this is what you'd rather see them
do.
Then again, there's a term for "instant intimacy": PROMISCUITY.
I guess nonpromiscuous men are SOL.
>See,
>men don't scope as surreptitiously as girls.
Women aren't half as surreptitious as they think they are. See "The
Microscope" in my books.....
>We always know when you're
>looking..you never know if we are, unless we let you.
More b/s.
>When you pick a target, she is the only one you see (until, of course,
>you get bored, then pick another and do it again) It'll make her feel
>special. Got a gorgeous one? Don't say a damn thing about her
>looks...focus on her brains or humour.
In other words, LIE......
>If she has neither, skip her or
>fuck her fast. You won't want to stick around too long.
These men won't care that much.....
>> insight into chick logic and why girls flake/blur
>
>Big secret time: We are as confused as you are.
Bullshit.
>Women are used to being
>wanted for sex. So their apprehensive. You're probably concerned about a
>chick taking you for your cash, right? So that's part of it. We don't
>know what we want any more than you do.... do we want to get laid? Is
>this the one? does he think I'm pretty/fat/dumb/easy? Is he a wife
>beater, got a girlfriend, small dick? It's almost the same shit you're
>thinking....only difference is we've got ovaries and you don't ; >0
>
>Also, some women are awful people.
No kidding!
>Take a bar with a hundred people. 50
>men, 50 women. Chances are 10 of each gender are assholes. 30 are okay,
>but so unsure they act like assholes. 5 are decent. And five are upfront
>(and I'm being generous here) Ferret out the 10 bitches, and focus on
>the others.
>
>If you really want to know why women flake, ask yourself why men do.
Men flake because they've already gotten what they want or something better
came along.
Next question?
>> Shit tests (conscious vs. unconscious)
>
>No idea what this is. Sorry. Is that like negging?
Testing a man by giving him shit you don't know about?
>> and just other basic things from the female perspective.
>
>Here's one....take a porn movie. And in that porn the chick is giving a
>blowjob to a guy with a huge dick. Chances are, she's *behaving* as
>though this is the highlight of her day, possibly her life. Is it
>really? Naw...she doens't know where it's been, her mouth is sore, her
>jaw aches, her knees hurt and she probably hasn't (and might not)
>orgasmed yet. But she looks like she loves it.... Because that way, it
>gets the other person (the actor and the audience) more into it...they
>become a part of that reality, caught up in it...
>
>If you behave in a certain way, like you're miserable and terrified,
>she'll know. Behave like you're enjoying this, even the rejections
>(because those, in the long run help you more) and she'll become
>fascinated.
They used to call this being a "Fair-Weather Friend." Now it's just prudence.
>Never mention a relationship or any serious commitment when you meet her
>or on the first few dates.
Translation: let HER determine the speed at which you move.
You really should be over in the other groups explaining to men that this is
how you think they should be behaving.
>Never talk about exes. If asked, say it ended. Period.
>
>Consider this. The world is full of too much sex and not enough erotica.
"Making love is what a woman does when you're fucking her."
At the end of the day, the men of ASF are men who won't commit long-term, and
who will move from one woman to the next, sometimes simultaneously.
You're saying essentially that you have no real problem with this type of man
as long as he's confident, funny, spontaneous, acts like he's not into your
looks, etc.
Again, please tell this to the nice men who only want "one special woman."
They'd like to know that "women" want them to treat women like sluts.
>Don't tell her you were diagnosed as depressed, got abused, wet your
>bed, any of that shit, until there's a serious commitment. She won't
>care anyway, it'll freak her out.
Translation: "Don't count on her in a crisis."
Corrolary: "If she has problems, dump her."
Beliefs like this are what create the type of distance between the genders
which makes it virtually impossible to build anything but a superficially
sex-driven relationship.
>Never lie about love to get a chick in bed.
Oh but the men here DO that, and they do it brilliantly. What do you think the
IC pattern is?
You're taking away these men's best weapon -- false, implied promises of love
-- to get laid.
>It'll come back to bite you
>in the ass.
How? If she tries for revenge the men here would call the cops on her in a
second for stalking.
There is no punishment for this crime anymore, so telling men not to commit it
is futile.
>And most of all, if you meet the one, really the one (not the one for
>this week) stop playing the game.
These men don't have the emotional maturity to be monogamous. You wanted
funny, confident, spontaneous, etc. (plus a guy who would dump you when your
looks go).
Character and honesty do not mix with your other requirements, slut.
>> also, how did you find out about this group?
>
>Someone crossposted one of the posts into another group I'm subbed to.
>Caught my eye...so I read a bit and liked it.
Glad to see you giving the female stamp of approval to the lifestyle of the
player.
Nice guys everywhere need to read this and stop being nice.
>And aside from Ray and other
>> ... mentally challanged... people around here (and the influx of n00bs),
>> how
>> accurate do you find these methods to be (successful?)
>
>Ray amuses me...I'm still waiting for his reply (bated breath and all
>that)
See above. I think you don't realize the message you send to men when you
endorse stuff like this.
I also noticed how you told these men NOT to do the one thing they usually do
to get laid (false promises of love).
Even though these men do that, which hurts women, here you are talking with
them in a perfectly civil manner.
I guess it really isn't so bad to do that given how you interact with them.
>My guess is if you do them and don't pansy ass out half way through,
>you'll do well. Awful for me to say this, but that book for women, The
>Rules? That shit worked. It was awful but it worked.
It works on men who LET it work out of ignorance or desperation.
>You need to commit to them, though, like any plan.
>
>But, and this is kinda sad, if you don't have some of the goods (looks
>or charm or numour or brains) not much will work. Even the best
>strategy. The guys here seem to have at least one of the above in each
>of their favours.
Usually. That's CUPID theory, though.
>Just don't hate women too much because of it. You might end up laid a
>lot but you also might end up pretty goddamned miserable
Most of the men here are not miserable.
They also don't care enough about women anymore to hate them. Why hate someone
you can con out of sex and laugh at behind her back for giving it to you?
><stepping off of her soapbox>
You can't have it both ways: fun and moral don't mix.
>> Just curious.
>
>hope some of the above made sense..I'm slightly drunk and tired....
Ah yes, a partier....
Ray Gordon, Author
The Seduction Library
Learn the secrets of seduction tens of thousands of readers already know!
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html
Jules
> >> I am just curoius to hear what WOMEN think about these methods... Sure
> >> guys
> >> go out and try them, but on TONS of girls.. it is a numbers game
> >> (well,
> >> at
> >> my stage anyways, but I am sure most will agree). It would be cool to
> >> have
> >> feedback on each tool or tip that we seem to hold sacred... like
> >
> >It's a numbers game like any other...Hell, baseball is a numbers
> >game....but it doesn't hurt to train like Nomar...
>
> It's a numbers game only when you stop caring about women as individuals
> and
> start looking for the YES rather than someone you actually like.
Yes it is in some sense, but everything in life is a numbers game. You
don't know whether or not you'll like someone until you talk to them.
And to talk to them takes an effort at times, particularly in pickup
places where it appears so many people like to go.
I'm not advocating going for the girl who says yes instead of looking
for something real.
But practice makes perfect. If you approack enough people, confidently,
you stand a better chance at being able to approach someone who will end
up right for you.
You cannot see a personality across a room.
>
>
> >> "the 3 second rule"
> >
> >Defintely works. Might not have to be three seconds, you have maybe
> >30...but go longer than that and one of two things will happen. you'll
> >love your nerve, or the chick will think you're stalking her. Or she'll
> >walk away into the ether.
>
> Does that make her smart?
For walking away into the ether? Depends on what she find in the ether
and who she's walking from....
>
> >
> >You must act and act fast.
>
> Why? To get an idiot woman to like me?
No, actually. My guess is idiot women will always like you. That's
because they're idiots.
You must act fast because courage is a tenuous thing. It slips away
quickly, particularly when you're unsure of what you're doing.
If you act and risk rejection, you're still ahead. Because for every few
girls who don't pay any attention to you, someone will and that someone
might be the woman you've been looking for all your life.
>
>
> >> maybe judge the effectiveness of a few patterns
> >
> >Hmmm...patterns can tell you what you want to see, so you need to be
> >really honest with yourself when you're assessing your progress. I
> >thinka few guys here, based on some of the reports, are not assessing
> >realistically.
> >
> >You need to see who to contiunue on with and who to skip out on...why
> >waste time with a HB 8 who's maybe not buying it, when a HB 10 is just
> >waiting for you?
>
> Isn't she only waiting three seconds?
Um, no. Try to parse the terrain a bit better next time. First, I said
more like 30 seconds....second, walking into the ether was a way of
saying she's moved past you to somewhere else. She might leave, meet
another man or change her intial, observed opinion.
Try downloading reading comprehension software...it might do wonders for
you ;-)
>
> What do you think of "MLTR?"
Is that like friendly fucking? If so, eh, not sure what I think. People
need to blow off sexual steam and as long as both parties are aware of
the limitiations and nature, I don't have a problem.
However, I'm an advocate of monogamy. I won't preach to anyone here who
thinks otherwise, but i think it's the way to go.
>
>
> >What sort of patterns specifically do you mean?
>
> Those designed to induce hypnosis and lower her sexual resistance without
> her
> knowing what's going on.
Eh, think that's proably bull....I don't know enough abut the technique
to judge it though.
Lowering sexual resistance is creepy, plus it presumes a woman's
sexuality is not particularly strong, which is inaccurate at best.
>
>
> >> Rate importance of Kino, EV, best ways to gain rapport
> >
> >90% of communication is done with tone, posture, eyes, touch and smell.
> >The rest is details. I think most guys here will agree you can say the
> >dumbest shit in the world and it'll still work if you have the other
> >angles going.
>
> If you're dealing with idiot sluts, definitely.
Actually, you're wrong. Study primate behaviour, why don't you and come
back to me when you're done.
Presentation is key. Look at all the spin doctors in politics. They know
what you say is of lesser importance than how you say it.
And, if you think the world is populated by ignorant sluts, well, other
tha an obvious issue with Saturday Night Live reruns, you've got issues
with chick.
For every ignorant slut out there, there's a brain dead dick head.
>
>
> >Look like the alpha (get thee to a zoo and check out the chimps or read
> >Carl Sagan's Secrets of Forgotten Ancestors) Stand tall, speak calmly,
> >and slowly, with voice modulation. Get in her space, without being
> >invasive. Touch when you have been allowed into the space.
>
> So your message to the "nice guys" is to start invading women's space and
> touching them?
No, actually. Again, parse better my friend and try to keep up.
After you've initiated something, like a conversation (that's when two
people talk, BTW) it's acceptable to create an intimacy, such as leaning
in a tad closer tha one would when sdpeaking to a friend.
If that's okay and she mirrors (which is a part of human behaviour and
not merely a technique here...hell, it's how infancts learn) by leanig
in as well, a non-invasive touch is acceptable. As I said elsewhere, a
forearm touch is a good place to start.
>
> Do you also agree that men shouldn't do favors for women, shouldn't spend
> money
> on them, and shouldn't tolerate being "just friends," like this group
> advocates?
Hmmm...excellent question. you getting up to speed, I see. <grin>
It's not a black or white issue. Sometimes, yes. I'd gree. Other times,
no. No one should allow themselves to be used, be it for sex, money or
favours.
You do favours for people you genuinely like, not because you think
you'll get laid.
You buy people things if you want to show them affection or think of
them as you see something and care about them enough to show your
attachment in something material. Buying a woman a drink in order to get
in her thong is not cool.
and friendship is sacred. Women claiming to want to be friends are
frqequently lying. Just like men who do the same are. Sometimes, you
might want to be friends with a woman and you should.
Butif you have feelings for someone beyond friendship, why should you
sit contentedly by as friends? Why not eisk rejection? Why not try for
more? IF that's what you want.
i think all relationships should be based on a friendship, to a degree.
I have yet to see a successful LTR between two people who are not
friends as well as romantically involved. But the friend thing is a line
so often.
>
>
> >Don't go shifty eyed, makes you look nervous, or hostile or
> >untrustworthy or all of the above.
>
> When did women become experts on male character? If they are experts, do
> they
> WANT all the "badboys" they cry about down the road?
Note, I have never said this behaviour was purely male. This behaviur is
female as well. Shifty-eyed is shifty-eyed, regardless of plumbing.
I also would like to add, I did not say you were nervous, hostile or
untrustworthy if you bahve this way, but you may appear that way. I'm
basing this on my experience and that of my female friends.
You're second comment doens't make much sense. Please rephrase. Do they
all want badboys? Probably not. But I'm not all women so I wouldn't
know. I'm speaking from ym experience and that of my female friends, as
I said above.
Personally, I like bad boys, especially when I know I'm tougher than
they are....<grin>
>
>
> >And above all laugh! Smile! Look like you're having a good time! Behave
> >as though she is *important* but don't buy her a drink...hehheh.
> >You need to create intimacy immediately...spin a web around her.
>
> You should tell the chumps in your life that this is what you'd rather
> see them
> do.
Uh huh. I would rather see those around me having a good time. You, fo
course, might perfer your associates to be maudlin and depressed around
you. Whatever floats your boat.
>
> Then again, there's a term for "instant intimacy": PROMISCUITY.
No, physical intimacy is what you're getting at. Intimiacy has nothing
to do with sex. Perhaps you need to focus less on your dick and more on
your social interactions.
>
> I guess nonpromiscuous men are SOL.
You'd guess that, I'm sure. I wouldn't bet on it though. I'm not
promiscuous, nor do I care for men who are. Most women I know don't and
aren't either. You're allowing your preconceived notions of women to
colour your views.
You would like to think I'm advocating certain things, and you're
intentionally reading them that way, being deliberately obtuse, because
you cannot accpe that a woman actually falls outside ofthe categories
you've placed her in.
It must be difficult to live in such a regements world.
>
>
> >See,
> >men don't scope as surreptitiously as girls.
>
> Women aren't half as surreptitious as they think they are. See "The
> Microscope" in my books.....
>
>
> >We always know when you're
> >looking..you never know if we are, unless we let you.
>
> More b/s.
From your POV.
>
> >When you pick a target, she is the only one you see (until, of course,
> >you get bored, then pick another and do it again) It'll make her feel
> >special. Got a gorgeous one? Don't say a damn thing about her
> >looks...focus on her brains or humour.
>
> In other words, LIE......
No....parsing, parsing! There is nothing deceitful about focusing on a
woman's mind and personality. There is nothing deceitful in not
commecting on a woman's appearance. I'd actually find it refreshing.
>
> >If she has neither, skip her or
> >fuck her fast. You won't want to stick around too long.
>
> These men won't care that much.....
That was an attempt to show that going solely for looks is not always
the best route.
>
>
> >> insight into chick logic and why girls flake/blur
> >
> >Big secret time: We are as confused as you are.
>
> Bullshit.
Sorry. Wrong answer. Please play again.
Why aren't women as confused? Are they just that much more intelligent
than you that they've figured it all out?
Wow, with that sort of attitude some of these guys might be right...you
probably don't enjoy life much and have much fun with girls. And I don;t
mean bedding them either. If you think women are either so deceitful
that they know exactly every move they're amking or are so brilliant,
that they're looking on tediously while male oafs try to get footing on
the terrain....that's sad, man.
>
> >Women are used to being
> >wanted for sex. So their apprehensive. You're probably concerned about a
> >chick taking you for your cash, right? So that's part of it. We don't
> >know what we want any more than you do.... do we want to get laid? Is
> >this the one? does he think I'm pretty/fat/dumb/easy? Is he a wife
> >beater, got a girlfriend, small dick? It's almost the same shit you're
> >thinking....only difference is we've got ovaries and you don't ; >0
> >
> >Also, some women are awful people.
>
> No kidding!
As are some men.
>
> >Take a bar with a hundred people. 50
> >men, 50 women. Chances are 10 of each gender are assholes. 30 are okay,
> >but so unsure they act like assholes. 5 are decent. And five are upfront
> >(and I'm being generous here) Ferret out the 10 bitches, and focus on
> >the others.
> >
> >If you really want to know why women flake, ask yourself why men do.
>
> Men flake because they've already gotten what they want or something
> better
> came along.
Or they're scared to commit or don't really like the person or are
unsure as to what they want.
So women are merely chess pieces for men to move around then? I thought
women were the ones who had it all figured out? Which is it? You can't
have both, my friend.
>
> >> and just other basic things from the female perspective.
> >
> >Here's one....take a porn movie. And in that porn the chick is giving a
> >blowjob to a guy with a huge dick. Chances are, she's *behaving* as
> >though this is the highlight of her day, possibly her life. Is it
> >really? Naw...she doens't know where it's been, her mouth is sore, her
> >jaw aches, her knees hurt and she probably hasn't (and might not)
> >orgasmed yet. But she looks like she loves it.... Because that way, it
> >gets the other person (the actor and the audience) more into it...they
> >become a part of that reality, caught up in it...
> >
> >If you behave in a certain way, like you're miserable and terrified,
> >she'll know. Behave like you're enjoying this, even the rejections
> >(because those, in the long run help you more) and she'll become
> >fascinated.
>
> They used to call this being a "Fair-Weather Friend." Now it's just
> prudence.
>
How so? I fail to see the connection.
>
> >Never mention a relationship or any serious commitment when you meet her
> >or on the first few dates.
>
> Translation: let HER determine the speed at which you move.
No...she shouldn't mention these things either. Mention them when you
feel comfortable. Why can't people just enjoy each others company? Worry
about where it's going when it's more of an issue?
Forcing the idea of a relationship on someone within a few hours is kind
of scary and would make anyone, male or female, worry about that
person's sanity.
>
> You really should be over in the other groups explaining to men that this
> is
> how you think they should be behaving.
I don't have an opinion as to how men should behave period. I was asked
a question andI'm answering. I'm answering it from my POV. I am
certainly not putting a gun to anyone's head telling them what to do.
And I'm certain others disagree. And they may well be right some of the
time. I'm speaking from my experience.
>
>
> >Never talk about exes. If asked, say it ended. Period.
> >
> >Consider this. The world is full of too much sex and not enough erotica.
>
> "Making love is what a woman does when you're fucking her."
Unfortunately, sometimes this is true. And you can also reverse woman
and man in the sentence and get the same outcome.
>
> At the end of the day, the men of ASF are men who won't commit long-term,
> and
> who will move from one woman to the next, sometimes simultaneously.
Mabe some are, maybe some aren't. I don't know any of them well enough
to make that judgement.
>
> You're saying essentially that you have no real problem with this type of
> man
> as long as he's confident, funny, spontaneous, acts like he's not into
> your
> looks, etc.
No, I'm not and I'll thank you for not putting words in my mouth. Keep
em in your own, there' s plenty of space.
I like men who are funny and smart, have fun in life, don't get too
caught up in opbsession and can appreciate my personality and intellect
as well as my physical appearance.
I don't date men who whore. If a man I'm with cheats, he's gone. But I
have no problem wth a set of ideas than make men more comfortable with
approaching women. and I don't have a problem with two people having sex
if it's consensual.
>
> Again, please tell this to the nice men who only want "one special
> woman."
> They'd like to know that "women" want them to treat women like sluts.
No, quite the contrary. My, you do make some leaps in logic. Freud would
love you!
I wish I knew more nice men looking for one special woman. I've known
far too few.
>
>
> >Don't tell her you were diagnosed as depressed, got abused, wet your
> >bed, any of that shit, until there's a serious commitment. She won't
> >care anyway, it'll freak her out.
>
> Translation: "Don't count on her in a crisis."
no, don't spill your dirt laundry when you don;t know the person well
enough to know she isn't posting it online in a group like this. When
you have developed something with a person then, you can tell them
whatever you want.
But pouring your deep dark secrets out to complete stranger isn't too
bright.
And no, you cannot count on everyone in a crisis. People are not always
there for you, male or female. Again, some people are good, some are
bad. So you might want to find out if this person will mean anything to
you and vice versa before telling her you let your best friend blow you
when you were 11.
>
> Corrolary: "If she has problems, dump her."
Nope. some men don't handle criss, like some women don't. I think
dumping someone because of problems is wimpy. But don;t create flase
hopes in someone that you'll be there through thick and thin when you
won't. That's not only wimpy, but cruel.
>
> Beliefs like this are what create the type of distance between the
> genders
> which makes it virtually impossible to build anything but a superficially
> sex-driven relationship.
Actually, your beliefs do that. You're trying to do that know with this
reply, create a disatnce betwen me as a woman and you as a man. Because
you can't see that male and female both, are merely people. And in many
ways, behave the same, have the same fears, strengths and weaknesses.
>
>
> >Never lie about love to get a chick in bed.
>
> Oh but the men here DO that, and they do it brilliantly. What do you
> think the
> IC pattern is?
I don't like it.
>
> You're taking away these men's best weapon -- false, implied promises of
> love
> -- to get laid.
And that I don't advocate. It's rotten, for starters and it'll get you
in the end.
>
>
> >It'll come back to bite you
> >in the ass.
>
> How? If she tries for revenge the men here would call the cops on her in
> a
> second for stalking.
Not necessarily. But life has a funny way of gving us back what we give
first.
Plus, revenge is a dish best served cold. A few words here and there, a
few rumours and the boy is out of commision. no one will touch him with
a tenfoot pole. Remember why I said don't give up all your dirt on the
first date? Wouldn't want the entire town to know you still sleep with a
teddy bear.
>
> There is no punishment for this crime anymore, so telling men not to
> commit it
> is futile.
Don't be so sure.
>
>
> >And most of all, if you meet the one, really the one (not the one for
> >this week) stop playing the game.
>
> These men don't have the emotional maturity to be monogamous. You wanted
> funny, confident, spontaneous, etc. (plus a guy who would dump you when
> your
> looks go).
i didn't claim to want anything, Mr. Gordon. You merely project what you
want me to think on me. Your weakness, not mine.
>
> Character and honesty do not mix with your other requirements, slut.
Nice. <shaking head>
It was only a matter of time. I suppose you're using that new meaning of
the word slut...monogamous, educated, intelligent, humorous woman. I'll
forgive you for it, hotstuff, this time.
>
> >> also, how did you find out about this group?
> >
> >Someone crossposted one of the posts into another group I'm subbed to.
> >Caught my eye...so I read a bit and liked it.
>
>
> Glad to see you giving the female stamp of approval to the lifestyle of
> the
> player.
Nope. No stamp. Just thought it was interesting, and as i said in my
first post, I thught perhaps a female POV would be welcome.
>
> Nice guys everywhere need to read this and stop being nice.
>
>
> >And aside from Ray and other
> >> ... mentally challanged... people around here (and the influx of
> >> n00bs),
> >> how
> >> accurate do you find these methods to be (successful?)
> >
> >Ray amuses me...I'm still waiting for his reply (bated breath and all
> >that)
>
> See above. I think you don't realize the message you send to men when
> you
> endorse stuff like this.
i don;t think you realize how marrowminded and sad you are. You've
pigeonholed me and don't know me. You've attempted and failed to put
words in my mouth.
I'm sorry I couldn't suit your image of women better. Pity you must make
all women sluts in your mind, Ray. Thank god I won't walk away from this
believing all men are boorish, obtuse dilltantes.
>
> I also noticed how you told these men NOT to do the one thing they
> usually do
> to get laid (false promises of love).
>
> Even though these men do that, which hurts women, here you are talking
> with
> them in a perfectly civil manner.
Ever hear the old adage, you get more flies with honey than vinegar? I
think, from my limited experience here, many of these guys want someone
to love and care about. And some of the younger guys might benefit from
seing a woman who doesn't fall into some of the categories that are
prevelant here. Like the ones you seem so fond of.
There's hope for them. Perhaps it's a bit late for you.
>
> I guess it really isn't so bad to do that given how you interact with
> them.
You haven't the faintest clue as to how i interact with men. any
presumption otherwise illustrates your ignorance. Even more so than
previously.
>
>
>
> >My guess is if you do them and don't pansy ass out half way through,
> >you'll do well. Awful for me to say this, but that book for women, The
> >Rules? That shit worked. It was awful but it worked.
>
> It works on men who LET it work out of ignorance or desperation.
Exactly. Like manyof the techniques here. Because, for starters, they
used tried and true human behavioural patterns. And because people want
to find someone and will almost always do so.
>
>
> >You need to commit to them, though, like any plan.
> >
> >But, and this is kinda sad, if you don't have some of the goods (looks
> >or charm or numour or brains) not much will work. Even the best
> >strategy. The guys here seem to have at least one of the above in each
> >of their favours.
>
> Usually. That's CUPID theory, though.
>
>
> >Just don't hate women too much because of it. You might end up laid a
> >lot but you also might end up pretty goddamned miserable
>
> Most of the men here are not miserable.
Maybe. Maybe not. Might be fun now, but will it be fun forever...and
guys, if anyone else is reading. I'm not begruding anyone their
lifestyles. Its free will, yours and the girls. But someday you might
want to find the one.
>
> They also don't care enough about women anymore to hate them. Why hate
> someone
> you can con out of sex and laugh at behind her back for giving it to you?
>
That's precisely why you'd hate them. Like you do. Why bother if
thereisn't emotion? Why laugh or fuck if you don't feel something and
since it won't be love, it's something else...
>
> ><stepping off of her soapbox>
>
> You can't have it both ways: fun and moral don't mix.
Good line. You might want to learn it yourself.
>
>
> >> Just curious.
> >
> >hope some of the above made sense..I'm slightly drunk and tired....
>
> Ah yes, a partier....
Nope. Two glasses of wine at an office gathering to discuss the current
situation with China and it's borders, as well as the potential for
crisis in South East Asia given its economic downturn, and the possible
military action we're facing. Then, someone I've worked with for a few
years is leaving the program so well bid her farewell.
I'm not much of a drinker so two glasses goes right to my head.
Bet For A Living
>> >game....but it doesn't hurt to train like Nomar...
>>
>> It's a numbers game only when you stop caring about women as individuals
>> and
>> start looking for the YES rather than someone you actually like.
>
>Yes it is in some sense, but everything in life is a numbers game. You
>don't know whether or not you'll like someone until you talk to them.
Actually you don't know if you'll like them until you LIVE with
them.......assuming that marriage is women's goal, that's the endgame. Women
who ignore problems which will surface in co-habitation are the ones who get
screwed, because they keep starting relationships with the wrong men.
I've seen how women "talk" with men; very little of it is designed to find any
long-term compatibility.
>And to talk to them takes an effort at times, particularly in pickup
>places where it appears so many people like to go.
Men like to go because women are there; women like to go because the rules
favor them.
Women insist on keeping the rules for success hidden, so men are constantly
having to guess what works, while women know that how they look will determine
how well they do.
Thus, the vehicle is much more reliable for women than for men.
>I'm not advocating going for the girl who says yes instead of looking
>for something real.
You most definitely are. Here's how:
"If she doesn't like you, move on to the next one." (this presumes she
couldn't be wrong, or even if she is, don't try to change her mind).
"It's a numbers game." (meaning that you keep looking until you find someone
who says yes).
>But practice makes perfect. If you approack enough people, confidently,
>you stand a better chance at being able to approach someone who will end
>up right for you.
And who determines what is "right" other than HER saying YES?
In many ASF scenarios, the woman thinks it's "right" while the guy is typing up
a "lay report." Success is measured by whether or not he got the lay, not
whether or not they are compatible.
>You cannot see a personality across a room.
Most women can't see personality period, even when they talk to a guy.
What do you think "Elicit her values and feed them back to her" means? It
means "find out what she wants to hear and tell it to her."
A nice guy won't do this; a jerk will. Why does it work then unless women like
jerks or are too stupid to determine who they are?
>> >> "the 3 second rule"
>> >
>> >Defintely works. Might not have to be three seconds, you have maybe
>> >30...but go longer than that and one of two things will happen. you'll
>> >love your nerve, or the chick will think you're stalking her. Or she'll
>> >walk away into the ether.
>>
>> Does that make her smart?
>
>For walking away into the ether? Depends on what she find in the ether
>and who she's walking from....
Let's look at the endgame: women "find" men they divorce over 65 percent of the
time when they marry, with the women filing for divorce at least 3/4 of those
times.
It would seem a woman's decision to want one man over another is usually the
wrong one. If it weren't, you wouldn't see so many breakups, or so many of the
breakups being female-initiated.
>> >You must act and act fast.
>>
>> Why? To get an idiot woman to like me?
>
>No, actually. My guess is idiot women will always like you. That's
>because they're idiots.
Now you're just engaging in a typical putdown which shows you aren't as good a
judge of character as you think.
You're also ignoring some serious character flaws in other men while trying to
claim you have a value system which contradicts your reward system.
>You must act fast because courage is a tenuous thing. It slips away
>quickly, particularly when you're unsure of what you're doing.
Why would I have faith in a woman who had me on those eggshells to begin with?
I'm sure you love men who jump through hoops to win your approval (that
includes most of the men here), but they're suckers.
"Idiot men who will always like you," if you will.
>If you act and risk rejection, you're still ahead. Because for every few
>girls who don't pay any attention to you, someone will and that someone
>might be the woman you've been looking for all your life.
The one who says yes.....as opposed to the one who "pays no attention to me."
Message to men: look for the "yes."
>> >You need to see who to contiunue on with and who to skip out on...why
>> >waste time with a HB 8 who's maybe not buying it, when a HB 10 is just
>> >waiting for you?
Translation: look for the YES.
Notice that in each case what is "right" is determined by which woman judges
you and says yes, not which woman you want the most.
Further translation: women don't matter UNTIL they say yes. This makes it
impossible for a man to approach women based on how he feels, but instead to
look for the women he's likely to SCORE with.
Such women by definition are not "special."
>> Isn't she only waiting three seconds?
>
>Um, no. Try to parse the terrain a bit better next time. First, I said
>more like 30 seconds....second, walking into the ether was a way of
>saying she's moved past you to somewhere else.
And is therefore "wrong" for me because she said no.
Translation: look for the YES, not for the woman you like the most.
>She might leave, meet
>another man or change her intial, observed opinion.
A very uninformed and probably WRONG opinion.
See, I view it differently from you:
1. Do you want to find the right HUSBAND?
2. Is there anything to indicate you are capable of making this choice with
any accuracy? (probably not)
3. Do you value a good man who won't mistreat you or cheat on you?
4. If so, you better act like it or *I* have rejected *you*, and thought you
an idiot slut (though I wouldn't say it because that's not polite).
If you try to taunt me by being overtly sexual with another man and saying how
"great" he is, I just sit back, let nature take its course, and when you're
whining and crying three months later about how you got played, I just point
out that it's your own fault.
>Try downloading reading comprehension software...it might do wonders for
>you ;-)
Wow, more putdowns.
It is women like you who give me the ability to severely taunt and put down
those women who get burned by men.
Tell me, would you ever let yourself be the "primary" in an MLTR?
Oh, and if one of the men here ever threatened you the way he tried to threaten
me, would you still call him "nice?"
You're dealing with men here who have broken many laws, trying to act as if
they are "nice."
>> What do you think of "MLTR?"
>
>Is that like friendly fucking? If so, eh, not sure what I think. People
>need to blow off sexual steam and as long as both parties are aware of
>the limitiations and nature, I don't have a problem.
No, I meant you being the "girlfriend" of a man who is a perfect boyfriend,
except he can fuck other chicks while you have to be loyal to him. The men
here have said that women don't mind this.
>However, I'm an advocate of monogamy.
No, no....your relationship expectations would be "managed" so that you would
see how these great men are so worth it that you'd have to tolerate them
fucking other chicks.
Instead of putting me down so much why not read what these men do.
>I won't preach to anyone here who
>thinks otherwise, but i think it's the way to go.
Oh, but they say you'll have no choice, because you'd rather have part of them
than all of other men.
Funny how you're not swooning on cue like they said you would. You're not even
endorsing their ideas.
>> >What sort of patterns specifically do you mean?
>>
>> Those designed to induce hypnosis and lower her sexual resistance without
>> her
>> knowing what's going on.
>
>Eh, think that's proably bull....I don't know enough abut the technique
>to judge it though.
Keep thinking it's bull....the men love being able to RAPE women without being
caught.
You're their best friend.
>Lowering sexual resistance is creepy,
That's what the men you are being friendly with here do. Those men you put
down are being sent a message to be like these men.
Actions speak louder than words, cunt.
>plus it presumes a woman's
>sexuality is not particularly strong, which is inaccurate at best.
No, it presumes that women are so arrogant in thinking they can't be outsmarted
that they are sitting ducks for well-placed NLP.
>> >> Rate importance of Kino, EV, best ways to gain rapport
>> >
>> >90% of communication is done with tone, posture, eyes, touch and smell.
>> >The rest is details. I think most guys here will agree you can say the
>> >dumbest shit in the world and it'll still work if you have the other
>> >angles going.
>>
>> If you're dealing with idiot sluts, definitely.
>
>Actually, you're wrong. Study primate behaviour, why don't you and come
>back to me when you're done.
There are idiot sluts among primates too.
Disclaimer
( Regulars : please filter this message via the author name
'Disclaimer' )
Disclaimer : 'Bet For A Living' aka 'Ray Gordon' (fake name) aka
Gordon Roy Parker (his real name)
Also makes posts from dev...@no-id.com, and he spams the group with
conspiracy theories regarding a man called Ross Jeffries.
IF YOU ARE NEW to this group take note :
Gordon Roy Parker makes frequent daily posts to the following usenet
groups:
alt.seduction.fast
alt.romance
alt.hypnosis
alt.sports.gymnastics
He has sometimes made in excess of 60 usenet posts in a single 24 hour
period (eg 64 posts on Aug 31 2001 alone)
In all four groups the opinion of many participants is that Mr Parker
is a mentally ill individual who goes to extreme lengths to provoke
others in order to get attention. In all four groups Mr Parker
threatens to sue people, sometimes daily. In all four groups many are
of the opinion that Mr Parker's posts detract from the functioning of
the group and that he has emotional problems. The alt.hypnosis group
ALSO posts a disclaimer after each of his posts.
Gordon Roy Parker suffers from a serious mental illness called
"Manic/Depression" sometimes also called "Bi-Polar Disorder". He has
himself stated this. This disorder is typified by alternating periods
of mania and depression. In a manic phase the sufferer experiences a
euphoric high and experiences delusions of both grandeur and superior
abilities. The cycle then gradually swings to the depressive phase,
where the sufferer can experience crippling depressive symptoms. It
should be noted that Gordon Roy Parker has indeed made past usenet
posts in which he threatened to kill himself.
Some people may also think Gordon Roy Parker has a narcissistic
personality complex. A narcissistic personality has the following
traits:
1. has a grandiose sense of self-importance (eg., exaggerates
achievements and talents,
2. expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate
achievements.
3. is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power,
brilliance, beauty, or ideal love.
4. believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be
understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status
people (or institutions)
5. requires excessive admiration,
6. has a sense of entitlement, i.e, unreasonable expectations of
especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her
expectations
7. is interpersonally exploitative, ie., takes advantage of others to
achieve his or her own ends
8. lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the
feelings and needs of others
9. Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of
him or her shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes
Gordon seems to try to engage in ANY conversation and be recognized.
He often makes off-topic posts, flames others with insults or makes
otherwise provocative and inflamatory statements.
Many would agree that Gordon's predicament is unfortunate. Lots of
people have mental illnesses and are able to lead productive and
fulfilling lives. But it would seem that, rather than obtain adequate
treatment for his problem and explore his issues with a trained
therapist to hopefully move his life in a positive direction, Gordon
instead insists on spending every available waking moment on usenet
where he has alienated himself from most of the remaining usenet
population by being as disruptive, vengeful and taunting as possible.
He has sometimes made in excess of 60 usenet posts in a single 24 hour
period (eg 64 posts on Aug 31 2001 alone), yet still tells people that
he's busy working on numerous projects and filing numerous legal
actions. One could wonder, with the time he spends on usenet, how he
has time for anything else from an actual job to actually filing one of
the many legal actions that he constantly says are imminent, to eating
and sleeping.
Gordon is 34 years old, admits to having herpes and has claimed that
all women are "whores" and "cunts". This statement, since it includes
all women, would imply his own mother is a "whore" and a "cunt". Yet he
still seems to feel qualified to offer unsolicited advice, even when
specifically requested not to, and spams the groups with ads for his
website and products. The fact that all his advice and products are
given and sold under a phony name ie "Ray Gordon" says an awful lot.
While some people think Gordon's condition is unfortunate and would
wish him the best if he sought treatment, they feel his current
behavior detracts from the functioning of our group. Please be aware
that responding to his posts may encourage him to post further.
Consider not replying to his inflamatory posts, or even filter his
posts out of your newsreader listings.
Remember, all the info you need is free. Knowledgeable people with
experience will help you out and they won't try to sell you something
in the process.
Two great and REPUTABLE sites to get you started are:
http://www.fastseduction.com/
http://www.pickupguide.com/
If you wish to filter out Gordon's posts, as well as those of other
identified trolls, the recommended kill-filter for this newsgroup can
be found at
http://www.fastseduction.com/filters.shtml
7d566ec2
Alex
lyth...@mediaoneme.net wrote on 9/27/01 12:14 AM:
> However, I'm an advocate of monogamy. I won't preach to anyone here who
> thinks otherwise, but i think it's the way to go.
Why?
ET
> > You can't have it both ways: fun and moral don't mix.
>
concepts, just because something is fun does not make it immoral. For
example if 2 adults decide they want to have sex with each other and each of
them knows what the other person is about i.e.. no dishonesty, why would it
be immoral?
ET
Gunwitch11111111
Except these three back to back items this post was pretty good.
>Don't tell her you were diagnosed as depressed, got abused, wet your
>bed, any of that shit, until there's a serious commitment. She won't
>care anyway, it'll freak her out.
Women need to figure that out as well, nothing makes me wanna punch a hot chik
in the face more than when she tells me "my ex boyfriend used to beat me up, i
guess i still want him back, but hes moved on."
>Never lie about love to get a chick in bed. It'll come back to bite you
>in the ass.
She'll lick your ass is more like it. Sorry to say but this is WAY off. LIE
YOUR ASS OFF GENTLEMEN. Sell the dream if you can figure out what it is.
>And most of all, if you meet the one, really the one (not the one for
>this week) stop playing the game.
>
There is no "one". WE ARE CAVEMEN. We run up, fuck and take off nothing more.