FIELD REPORT: Date with HB Grouch *BUST*
Big Guy
or
How to Totally Alienate an HB in the Span of 5 Days!
WARNING * WARNING * WARNING
If you're looking for some tidbits on how to PU women... move on to
the next post. BUT, if you want to read about what NOT to do (and I
mean some really BASIC mistakes), then by all means... read on...
I'm going to try and identify my mistakes and offer what I "shoulda"
done. Any suggestions and feedback is (as always) most welcomed.
PREFACE:
To bring you up to speed, HB Grouch is an acquaintance of mine from
work. I call her HB Grouch because I surprisingly found I could cheer
her up (move her out of one state and put her in another) by being a
"grouch" to her. I made an exception to my "No dates from work" rule
because her position has been terminated and is leaving in three
weeks. And I offered to take her to a movie she had been wanting to
see for quite some time. Was going to pay her way into the movie for
the same reason. (ain't I a nice guy)
BG ANALYSIS: Offering to pay for the movie set me up as a supplicant
from the get go. Should have made it a trade off. If you make dinner
for me, I'll take you to the movie. (I know, I know, all you hardcore
PUA's are saying "Give me sex, then I'll take you to the movie" I'll
get there eventually, just give me time)
We have been lightly flirting for about a month. Two Fridays ago the
flirting escalated after I sent her the Licorice Post (see: Watch that
Licorice) I ask her out, she said, Sure, give me a call.
ALIENATION COUNTDOWN: DAY 5
Monday night: Called her. Didn't recognize who answered the phone.
(It was her) I asked if this was HB Grouch. She said, "Just a
minute" She is quiet and I hear yelling in the background. I thought
it was the TV. She comes back on and says "Hello?" I ask "Is HB
Grouch threre?" She says, "No, this is <friend of hers>, HB Grouch is
out right now." I said, "OK, just tell her I called" End of call.
ALIENATION COUNTDOWN: DAY 4
Tuesday: Her birthday. She came up to me at work and apologized.
Said that it was her on the telephone and that her ex-fiance (broke up
over 3 months ago) was there and when he realized that it was a guy
calling her he went ballistic. "Flipped out"-her term. Said that he
does this and something she told him is that she is tired of being his
"punching bag" (Don't know if she meant this literaly or
figuratively) I basically said, No problem, don't worry about it.
BG ANALYSIS: Red flags should have been gone off right there and
then. Should have called off the date. If she's losing her job and
has a psychotic XBF she can't/won't get rid of, then she has too much
shit in her life. Shouldn't try to be Knight in Shining Armor and
just stay the fuck away.
BG ANALYSIS: She LIED to me. There really wasn't any purpose in
lying to me. Showed total lack of respect. And, I let her off the
hook. Total AFC.
Tuesday cont: Gave her a card. (it was her birthday) She sent me an
odd email, thanking me for the card and saying that she doesn't want
to get into a relationship for a long time. I responded saying that
it wasn't a big deal about the card. That I usually have a half dozen
or so laying around and that I understood about the relationship
thing, that I was the same way. (yeah, don't want a relationship...
just have some fun with ya babe)
BG ANALYSIS: Need to be more careful about the perception of
supplication. Although it wasn't any extra effort, giving the card
was probably perceived as supplicating.
BG ANALYSIS: The card was a definate mistake. I REWARDED her for
LYING to me. Won't happen again.
Tuesday night: Entering full AFC mode at this point. Called her
again. No answer. She has caller ID so I know that she knows I
called. Didn't call me back.
ALIENATION COUNTDOWN: Day 3
Wednesday night: Somehow restrained myself from calling her. Again,
no call from her.
ALIENATION COUNTDOWN: Day 2
Thursday, end of work day: Ask her if she is going to be around so I
could call her and talk about the weekend. She said that she was
tired and that if she felt like answering the phone, she would, if she
didn't, she wouldn't. Really pissed me off. Didn't call her.
ALIENATION COUNTDOWN: Ground zero
Friday: Stopped flirting with her. She asked me if I was in a bad
mood at lunch. Said no. Proceeded to send her an email. In it I
said:
1. I was cancelling the date.
2. The reason I was cancelling the date was because her lying to me
and not returning phone calls was rude behavior. And that I don't
tolorate rude behavior.
3. I respect women and I expect them to respect me.
4. That not going out was a loss for me and that if she thought about
it, she'd realize it was a loss for her too.
Her response: She wasn't going to WASTE HER TIME getting mad at me.
(As cold as that is, I fully EARNED that response) And here I liked
her because of how NICE she is...
BG ANALYSIS: Shouldn't have told her that she was rude. I indulged
in a bit of self-rightous indignation. Didn't get me any closer to my
goal.
MAJOR LESSONS LEARNED:
1. Don't supplicate. Don't be perceived as supplicating.
2. Don't get involved with chicks with too much shit in their lives.
Cut my loses and move on.
3. If sending a "recovery" message, don't say things in such a way
that puts her on the defensive
4.. ALWAYS ask myself, HOW DOES THIS GET ME CLOSER TO ACCOMPLISHING
MY GOAL.
I know this is all basic, but hey, a guy has to start somewhere.
Again, thanks for feedback.
BG
Outfoxing The Foxes
Date with HB Grouch *BUST*
or
How to Totally Alienate an HB in the Span of 5 Days!
WARNING * WARNING * WARNING
If you're looking for some tidbits on how to PU women... move on to
the next post. BUT, if you want to read about what NOT to do (and I
mean some really BASIC mistakes), then by all means... read on...
<------Sorry about the crash-and-burn.
I'm going to try and identify my mistakes and offer what I "shoulda"
done. Any suggestions and feedback is (as always) most welcomed.
PREFACE:
To bring you up to speed, HB Grouch is an acquaintance of mine from
work. I call her HB Grouch because I surprisingly found I could cheer
her up (move her out of one state and put her in another) by being a
"grouch" to her. I made an exception to my "No dates from work" rule
because her position has been terminated and is leaving in three
weeks. And I offered to take her to a movie she had been wanting to
see for quite some time. Was going to pay her way into the movie for
the same reason. (ain't I a nice guy)
<---------I don't think that's a big deal. I'm sure we've all treated
friends to minor outings. A lot also depends on your net worth. It's
not an easy call to make, but there are times when paying is not a matter
of supplication; the more attractive she is, the less she will see it as
such, and the more she will expect it of all men in her life. Yes,
challenging does work on some women, the very women you shouldn't pay for
to begin with. But there is another class of women where this is not the
case.
BG ANALYSIS: Offering to pay for the movie set me up as a supplicant
from the get go. Should have made it a trade off. If you make dinner
for me, I'll take you to the movie. (I know, I know, all you hardcore
PUA's are saying "Give me sex, then I'll take you to the movie" I'll
get there eventually, just give me time)
<------That's a good one.
We have been lightly flirting for about a month. Two Fridays ago the
flirting escalated after I sent her the Licorice Post (see: Watch that
Licorice) I ask her out, she said, Sure, give me a call.
ALIENATION COUNTDOWN: DAY 5
Monday night: Called her. Didn't recognize who answered the phone.
(It was her) I asked if this was HB Grouch. She said, "Just a
minute" She is quiet and I hear yelling in the background. I thought
it was the TV. She comes back on and says "Hello?" I ask "Is HB
Grouch threre?" She says, "No, this is <friend of hers>, HB Grouch is
out right now." I said, "OK, just tell her I called" End of call.
<---------Big red-flag.
ALIENATION COUNTDOWN: DAY 4
Tuesday: Her birthday. She came up to me at work and apologized.
Said that it was her on the telephone and that her ex-fiance (broke up
over 3 months ago) was there and when he realized that it was a guy
calling her he went ballistic. "Flipped out"-her term. Said that he
does this and something she told him is that she is tired of being his
"punching bag" (Don't know if she meant this literaly or
figuratively) I basically said, No problem, don't worry about it.
<------Here is where you stop the process. She has changed because of
another guy; it's not anything you did. A Foxhunter would go back into
indirect seduction mode.
BG ANALYSIS: Red flags should have been gone off right there and
then. Should have called off the date. If she's losing her job and
has a psychotic XBF she can't/won't get rid of, then she has too much
shit in her life. Shouldn't try to be Knight in Shining Armor and
just stay the fuck away.
<--------And by staying away you become more desirable to her, especially
if you inject a Fantasy Fox into the mix. The combination of not falling
into her trap (by giving her something to shoot down), and by proving you
are desirable to other women (or at least focused on them), you will get
her to pursue you.
BG ANALYSIS: She LIED to me. There really wasn't any purpose in
lying to me. Showed total lack of respect. And, I let her off the
hook. Total AFC.
<-------You also shouldn't call her on it. Let your ACTIONS show her
that you took the hint; she will preempt you by acting like there was no
hint, even if you didn't claim there was.
Tuesday cont: Gave her a card. (it was her birthday) She sent me an
odd email, thanking me for the card and saying that she doesn't want
to get into a relationship for a long time. I responded saying that
it wasn't a big deal about the card. That I usually have a half dozen
or so laying around and that I understood about the relationship
thing, that I was the same way. (yeah, don't want a relationship...
just have some fun with ya babe)
<-----Nothing wrong with that, though you could have accused her of
overstepping and mocked her.
BG ANALYSIS: Need to be more careful about the perception of
supplication. Although it wasn't any extra effort, giving the card
was probably perceived as supplicating.
<--------Doubtful. The issue is her ex.
BG ANALYSIS: The card was a definate mistake. I REWARDED her for
LYING to me. Won't happen again.
<----I think that was neutral. The response to the e-mail was more of a
mistake.
Tuesday night: Entering full AFC mode at this point. Called her
again. No answer. She has caller ID so I know that she knows I
called. Didn't call me back.
<------One-and-done would have sufficed here. Odds of her returning are
excellent.
ALIENATION COUNTDOWN: Day 3
Wednesday night: Somehow restrained myself from calling her. Again,
no call from her.
<----Smart.
ALIENATION COUNTDOWN: Day 2
Thursday, end of work day: Ask her if she is going to be around so I
could call her and talk about the weekend. She said that she was
tired and that if she felt like answering the phone, she would, if she
didn't, she wouldn't. Really pissed me off. Didn't call her.
<---------Smart. Not smart to ask. One-and-done should have been in
full force here.
ALIENATION COUNTDOWN: Ground zero
Friday: Stopped flirting with her. She asked me if I was in a bad
mood at lunch. Said no. Proceeded to send her an email. In it I
said:
<-------Two big mistakes. Why are you having lunch with her?
One-and-done, man....
1. I was cancelling the date.
2. The reason I was cancelling the date was because her lying to me
and not returning phone calls was rude behavior. And that I don't
tolorate rude behavior.
3. I respect women and I expect them to respect me.
4. That not going out was a loss for me and that if she thought about
it, she'd realize it was a loss for her too.
Her response: She wasn't going to WASTE HER TIME getting mad at me.
(As cold as that is, I fully EARNED that response) And here I liked
her because of how NICE she is...
<-----Old saying in politics: WHEN YOU EXPLAIN, YOU LOSE. You are
supposed to SHOW her these traits by IGNORING her (that's the purpose of
one-and-done). Nonverbal communication would have saved the day here;
saying it overtly gives her something to rip apart.
BG ANALYSIS: Shouldn't have told her that she was rude. I indulged
in a bit of self-rightous indignation. Didn't get me any closer to my
goal.
<--------Maybe maybe not. If you use one-and-done NOW, this could be
salvagable.
MAJOR LESSONS LEARNED:
1. Don't supplicate. Don't be perceived as supplicating.
2. Don't get involved with chicks with too much shit in their lives.
Cut my loses and move on.
<------I'd say don't make an EFFORT for said Foxes.
3. If sending a "recovery" message, don't say things in such a way
that puts her on the defensive
<-------The best recovery is one-and-done, which should have been
triggered by the mention of the ex. You can shift to general discussions
to get your point across. Other mistake was that you didn't seduce her
enough before asking her out. My general rule is not to ask for a date
until she's shown she's receptive to the idea of greeting me at the door
with a kiss on the lips wearing something to my specifications and
following a scripted date.
4.. ALWAYS ask myself, HOW DOES THIS GET ME CLOSER TO ACCOMPLISHING
MY GOAL.
<-------That and "What is the best move from here." If you ignore her
completely, the odds of a return are there; not great, but there. And
your best option.
I know this is all basic, but hey, a guy has to start somewhere. Again,
thanks for feedback.
<------It's not as bad as you're making it out to be as long as you don't
continue to do the same things. Making your point once verbally isn't
bad, though making it once nonverbally is *always* ideal when continued
interaction is assured. In the cases you read about, it is often
involving nightlife Foxes who won't be seen again. You have forced
interaction here so ingoring her becomes much more powerful.
Outfoxing The Foxes: The Ultimate In Mind Seduction!
http://www.cybersheet.com/fox/index.html
Join the OTF Moderated Discussion List!
http://www.onelist.com/community/outfoxingthefoxes
___________________________________________________________________
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Nathan SZILARD
| Date with HB Grouch *BUST*
(...)
Duh that was painful to read. Ah. Talk about reverse NLP
fully acting on me: I feel like shit.
At least you analyzed it right.
--
Don't ask me personal seduction questions, please post to the group.
ASF's practical FAQ and newbie starting point:
http://metabork.fr.eu.org/~nathan/
night...@hotmail.com
lauhe...@SPAMfgi.net (Big Guy) wrote:
> Date with HB Grouch *BUST*
>
> or
>
> How to Totally Alienate an HB in the Span of 5 Days!
>
> WARNING * WARNING * WARNING
>
>
Cute alternate title...
> PREFACE:
>
> To bring you up to speed, HB Grouch is an acquaintance of mine from
> work. I call her HB Grouch because I surprisingly found I could cheer
> her up (move her out of one state and put her in another) by being a
> "grouch" to her. I made an exception to my "No dates from work" rule
> because her position has been terminated and is leaving in three
> weeks. And I offered to take her to a movie she had been wanting to
> see for quite some time. Was going to pay her way into the movie for
> the same reason. (ain't I a nice guy)
>
> BG ANALYSIS: Offering to pay for the movie set me up as a supplicant
> from the get go. Should have made it a trade off. If you make dinner
> for me, I'll take you to the movie. (I know, I know, all you hardcore
> PUA's are saying "Give me sex, then I'll take you to the movie" I'll
> get there eventually, just give me time)
I usually go dutch, but sometimes I pay. That not paying thing is a
bit overkill here on group. In a bar when a girl asks you to buy here
drink, that's one thing. If I ask a girl out I sometimes pay for
stuff. But I pay attention to whether or not she offers and if she is
actively involved in the planning of the date I expect her to help
out. If she is having finantial trouble I might pay for the whole
thing. I have not noticed this having any effect on getting laid.
> We have been lightly flirting for about a month. Two Fridays ago the
> flirting escalated after I sent her the Licorice Post (see: Watch that
> Licorice) I ask her out, she said, Sure, give me a call.
In person on email. Please say, in person. How did you get her number?
> ALIENATION COUNTDOWN: DAY 5
>
> Monday night: Called her. Didn't recognize who answered the phone.
> (It was her) I asked if this was HB Grouch. She said, "Just a
> minute" She is quiet and I hear yelling in the background. I thought
> it was the TV. She comes back on and says "Hello?" I ask "Is HB
> Grouch threre?" She says, "No, this is <friend of hers>, HB Grouch is
> out right now." I said, "OK, just tell her I called" End of call.
>
> ALIENATION COUNTDOWN: DAY 4
>
> Tuesday: Her birthday. She came up to me at work and apologized.
> Said that it was her on the telephone and that her ex-fiance (broke up
> over 3 months ago) was there and when he realized that it was a guy
> calling her he went ballistic. "Flipped out"-her term. Said that he
> does this and something she told him is that she is tired of being his
> "punching bag" (Don't know if she meant this literaly or
> figuratively) I basically said, No problem, don't worry about it.
Ok she's f-ed up. No LTR...
> BG ANALYSIS: Red flags should have been gone off right there and
> then. Should have called off the date. If she's losing her job and
> has a psychotic XBF she can't/won't get rid of, then she has too much
> shit in her life. Shouldn't try to be Knight in Shining Armor and
> just stay the fuck away.
Not a bad plan. Conversely you could still fool around with her, just
don't get your heart involved (and expect that the whole thing could
fall apart at any minute).
> BG ANALYSIS: She LIED to me. There really wasn't any purpose in
> lying to me. Showed total lack of respect. And, I let her off the
> hook. Total AFC.
You need to not accept this as no big deal. You need to 1. Go off on
what an @sshole the guy is or 2. go off on her for lying. I would
vote for 1 in this case, but a lot of guys here seem to go for 2. I
would use this to build rapport. I would go on about how some girl was
stalked me once.
> Tuesday cont: Gave her a card. (it was her birthday) She sent me an
> odd email, thanking me for the card and saying that she doesn't want
> to get into a relationship for a long time. I responded saying that
> it wasn't a big deal about the card. That I usually have a half dozen
> or so laying around and that I understood about the relationship
> thing, that I was the same way. (yeah, don't want a relationship...
> just have some fun with ya babe)
Don't say the card was no big deal, say "it was just to say happy
birthday, everyone needs some happy words on there birthday. Of course
on my birthday I expect you to get me Jaguar (which acording to some
trolls is the real key to getting laid anyway...)" Build raport on how
sometimes you just need to be free and live a little. "go in a new
direction"
> BG ANALYSIS: Need to be more careful about the perception of
> supplication. Although it wasn't any extra effort, giving the card
> was probably perceived as supplicating.
not if you handled it right. You can be nice and not supplicate.
Women want a man, but useually they have to choose between a wus or an
asshole so choose the latter (some have dad's etc who were assholes and
conditioned them to need the latter, but that's a different story.
Unfortunately this girl sounds like she might be one of them).
> BG ANALYSIS: The card was a definate mistake. I REWARDED her for
> LYING to me. Won't happen again.
It's not what you did, it's how you did it. You don't sound like you
come off as confident. At this point you are blowing it because your
not confident in yourself, not because you gave her a card.
> Tuesday night: Entering full AFC mode at this point. Called her
> again. No answer. She has caller ID so I know that she knows I
> called. Didn't call me back.
Does she have a message machine? If she does and you don't leave one,
why would she call you back unless you gave her some reasons to want
you. You have an opening at this point, but you aren't in. They are
two different things. Getting her phone number is not the same as her
wanting you...
> ALIENATION COUNTDOWN: Day 3
>
> Wednesday night: Somehow restrained myself from calling her. Again,
> no call from her.
Good...
> ALIENATION COUNTDOWN: Day 2
>
> Thursday, end of work day: Ask her if she is going to be around so I
> could call her and talk about the weekend. She said that she was
> tired and that if she felt like answering the phone, she would, if she
> didn't, she wouldn't. Really pissed me off. Didn't call her.
You need to just walk a way or go balistic on this one...
> ALIENATION COUNTDOWN: Ground zero
>
> Friday: Stopped flirting with her. She asked me if I was in a bad
> mood at lunch. Said no. Proceeded to send her an email. In it I
> said:
Too little to late.
> 1. I was cancelling the date.
this should probably been at the end and open ended so she could get
you back, but she needed to earn it. NYC is supposedly a master at
this.
> 2. The reason I was cancelling the date was because her lying to me
> and not returning phone calls was rude behavior. And that I don't
> tolorate rude behavior.
You needed to address these when they came up.
> 3. I respect women and I expect them to respect me.
This is OK.
> 4. That not going out was a loss for me and that if she thought about
> it, she'd realize it was a loss for her too.
I don't know what the value of this was.
> Her response: She wasn't going to WASTE HER TIME getting mad at me.
> (As cold as that is, I fully EARNED that response) And here I liked
> her because of how NICE she is...
Yeah, you blew this one, but no big deal she was f-ed up anyway, so who
cares. Not I...
> BG ANALYSIS: Shouldn't have told her that she was rude. I indulged
> in a bit of self-rightous indignation. Didn't get me any closer to my
> goal.
Yes, thats true.
> MAJOR LESSONS LEARNED:
>
> 1. Don't supplicate. Don't be perceived as supplicating.
Yes and Hell yes, perception is everything.
> 2. Don't get involved with chicks with too much shit in their lives.
> Cut my loses and move on.
Maybe (depends on your goals and your needs in a lay) and Hell yes.
> 3. If sending a "recovery" message, don't say things in such a way
> that puts her on the defensive
You need to do this in person I believe. So you can vent and read her
reaction.
> 4.. ALWAYS ask myself, HOW DOES THIS GET ME CLOSER TO ACCOMPLISHING
> MY GOAL.
Hell yeah!
> I know this is all basic, but hey, a guy has to start somewhere.
> Again, thanks for feedback.
Hey atleast you gave it a shot, you got caught up in trying to do to
much and over analyzing every thing. If you could just let things
happen it would probably have worked out fine. That's hard though,
especially for a newbie, it will come to you with practice and work.
just my thoughts,
NightLight9
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Hotwater
the only thing you did RIGHT was to call her on her shit and tell her how
rude she was.
-- HW
Nathan SZILARD
| ALIENATION COUNTDOWN: Ground zero
|
| Friday: Stopped flirting with her. She asked me if I was in a bad
| mood at lunch. Said no. Proceeded to send her an email. In it I
| said:
|
| 1. I was cancelling the date.
|
| 2. The reason I was cancelling the date was because her lying to me
| and not returning phone calls was rude behavior. And that I don't
| tolorate rude behavior.
|
| 3. I respect women and I expect them to respect me.
|
| 4. That not going out was a loss for me and that if she thought about
| it, she'd realize it was a loss for her too.
|
| Her response: She wasn't going to WASTE HER TIME getting mad at me.
| (As cold as that is, I fully EARNED that response) And here I liked
| her because of how NICE she is...
|
| BG ANALYSIS: Shouldn't have told her that she was rude. I indulged
| in a bit of self-rightous indignation. Didn't get me any closer to my
| goal.
No here you had done things right, but it was a bit late.
Mr. Happy
Nathan SZILARD <nat...@metabork.fr.eu.org> wrote in message
news:slrn80oqlp...@linuxserver.it-xchange.com...
> On Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:45:21 GMT, Big Guy <lauhe...@SPAMfgi.net> wrote:
>
> |
> | Friday: Stopped flirting with her. She asked me if I was in a bad
> | mood at lunch. Said no. Proceeded to send her an email. In it I
> | said:
> |
> | 1. I was cancelling the date.
> |
> | 2. The reason I was cancelling the date was because her lying to me
> | and not returning phone calls was rude behavior. And that I don't
> | tolorate rude behavior.
> |
> | 3. I respect women and I expect them to respect me.
> |
> | 4. That not going out was a loss for me and that if she thought about
> | it, she'd realize it was a loss for her too.
> |
> | Her response: She wasn't going to WASTE HER TIME getting mad at me.
> | (As cold as that is, I fully EARNED that response) And here I liked
> | her because of how NICE she is...
> |
> | BG ANALYSIS: Shouldn't have told her that she was rude. I indulged
> | in a bit of self-rightous indignation. Didn't get me any closer to my
> | goal.
>
I think it's important that you show your boundaries and show that you
expect to be treated with respect. HOWEVER, I think it's also crucial that
you do so in such a way that you do not appear to be whiney or angry.
Remember, you are a MAN...shit doesn't PHASE you. You CALMY, GENTLY, FIRMLY
draw the line. You want her to think she is MISSING OUT, not that she is
WASTING HER TIME. You want her to feel challenged to get you back, not
happy you are gone.
o===3
Outfoxing The Foxes
> | BG ANALYSIS: Shouldn't have told her that she was rude. I indulged
> | in a bit of self-rightous indignation. Didn't get me any closer to
my
> | goal.
>
> No here you had done things right, but it was a bit late.
I think it's important that you show your boundaries and show that you
expect to be treated with respect. HOWEVER, I think it's also crucial
that you do so in such a way that you do not appear to be whiney or
angry. Remember, you are a MAN...shit doesn't PHASE you. You CALMY,
GENTLY, FIRMLY draw the line. You want her to think she is MISSING OUT,
not that she is WASTING HER TIME. You want her to feel challenged to get
you back, not happy you are gone.
<--------Foxhunters do this NATURALLY, with BEHAVIOR, not words. In
fact, NO WORDS are best. Women are nonverbal communicators. Nothing is
more frustrating to them than the man who responds to a negative signal
with silence, or who walks away, because to even address the issue, THEY
have to admit to sending it first and they have to finger the cause of
you walking away or going silent on them. The ideal way to carry this
off is like a cold-hearted salesman who just got key info he won't be
making a sale, and who (like a smart salesman), takes the new information
and acts accordingly. I'll say it AGAIN: Do NOT tell her what you are
doing. If you put your anger into words, she won't nibble; if you put it
into ACTIONS, she'll return to you rather quickly.
Outfoxing The Foxes
Big Guy
(snip)
Not sure if these questions are rhetorical, will answer them anyway...
BG wrote:
>
>> We have been lightly flirting for about a month. Two Fridays ago the
>> flirting escalated after I sent her the Licorice Post (see: Watch that
>> Licorice) I ask her out, she said, Sure, give me a call.
Nightlight9 asked:
>
>In person on email. Please say, in person. How did you get her number?
In person. Got her number before this, in person.
(another snip)
>
>> BG ANALYSIS: She LIED to me. There really wasn't any purpose in
>> lying to me. Showed total lack of respect. And, I let her off the
>> hook. Total AFC.
Nightlight wrote:
>You need to not accept this as no big deal. You need to 1. Go off on
>what an @sshole the guy is or 2. go off on her for lying. I would
>vote for 1 in this case, but a lot of guys here seem to go for 2. I
>would use this to build rapport. I would go on about how some girl was
>stalked me once.
>
1 is probably the better of the two. Build rapport.
I'm not sure how I could have done 2 without coming off as a jerk.
Perhaps if I just calmly said "About lying to me. I understand that
in the heat of the moment, we can do things that we later regret. But
I need to tell you... I don't take it lightly. I only go out with
people who I can trust. Is this going to be a problem? Maybe we
should cancel the date this weekend."
Or even better... do both.
(yet another snip)
Nightlight asked:
>
>Does she have a message machine? If she does and you don't leave one,
>why would she call you back unless you gave her some reasons to want
>you. You have an opening at this point, but you aren't in. They are
>two different things. Getting her phone number is not the same as her
>wanting you...
No answering machine. She screens her calls with Caller ID. In these
situations in the future, I am blocking my number with *67.
(snip)
BG wrote:
>>
>> Thursday, end of work day: Ask her if she is going to be around so I
>> could call her and talk about the weekend. She said that she was
>> tired and that if she felt like answering the phone, she would, if she
>> didn't, she wouldn't. Really pissed me off. Didn't call her.
Nightlight responded:
>You need to just walk a way or go balistic on this one...
>
Should have gone ballistic. Would have been difficult as there were
two other co-workers standing there. Better yet, I should have said
matter of factly "Look... if you still want to go see the movie this
weekend... YOU CALL ME... otherwise, I'm going to be making other
plans."
(final snip)
Thanks for all the feedback, guys.
BG
RE>< I<ARZ
Hay BG, Re>< here.
I noticed you have done a lot of preperation for your sargings and I must say, you learn quickly. My advice is to immediately find another chick or 3 to get to know. You are learning more in a month than I spent x-xx years not having a clue about. Show a little more patience and give it a few days between trying to do anything. and fuck that "e-mail dancing" bullshit. don't even go there, dude. E-mail shit is weak, don't reply to that shit. This is IRL. When you get out there you'll find by just doing a numbers game you will run into some AMAZING women out there. (Ask Nate!)
Dude, get some more bitches lined up so you don't spend your every waking hour plotting for this one chicI<. If you have to go down that road, then just get her alone and come right out and tell her how much you want to FUCK her. That will definitley get you an answer one way or another !
L8
RK
Big Guy <lauhe...@SPAMfgi.net> wrote in article <380d4638...@news.fgi.net>...
> On Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:45:01 GMT,
night...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> (snip)
>
> Not sure if these questions are rhetorical, will answer them anyway...
>
> BG wrote:
> >
> >> We have been lightly flirting for about a month. Two Fridays ago the
> >> flirting escalated after I sent her the Licorice Post (see: Watch that
> >> Licorice) I ask her out, she said, Sure, give me a call.
>
> Nightlight9 asked:
> >
> >In person on email. Please say, in person. How did you get her number?
>
> In person. Got her number before this, in person.
>
> (another snip)
>
> >
> >> BG ANALYSIS: She LIED to me. There really wasn't any purpose in
> >> lying to me. Showed total lack of respect. And, I let her off the
> >> hook. Total AFC.
>
> Nightlight wrote:
> >You need to not accept this as no big deal. You need to 1. Go off on
> >what an @sshole the guy is or 2. go off on her for lying. I would
> >vote for 1 in this case, but a lot of guys here seem to go for 2. I
> >would use this to build rapport. I would go on about how some girl was
> >stalked me once.
> >
>
> 1 is probably the better of the two. Build rapport.
>
> I'm not sure how I could have done 2 without coming off as a jerk.
> Perhaps if I just calmly said "About lying to me. I understand that
> in the heat of the moment, we can do things that we later regret. But
> I need to tell you... I don't take it lightly. I only go out with
> people who I can trust. Is this going to be a problem? Maybe we
> should cancel the date this weekend."
>
> Or even better... do both.
>
>
> (yet another snip)
>
> Nightlight asked:
> >
> >Does she have a message machine? If she does and you don't leave one,
> >why would she call you back unless you gave her some reasons to want
> >you. You have an opening at this point, but you aren't in. They are
> >two different things. Getting her phone number is not the same as her
> >wanting you...
>
> No answering machine. She screens her calls with Caller ID. In these
> situations in the future, I am blocking my number with *67.
>
> (snip)
>
> BG wrote:
> >>
> >> Thursday, end of work day: Ask her if she is going to be around so I
> >> could call her and talk about the weekend. She said that she was
> >> tired and that if she felt like answering the phone, she would, if she
> >> didn't, she wouldn't. Really pissed me off. Didn't call her.
>
> Nightlight responded:
>
> >You need to just walk a way or go balistic on this one...
> >
>
Big Guy
Even with all the shit that happened last week, Saturday, I spent a
couple of hours "sarging" on another acquaintance of mine. (7.5)
Can't begin to tell you how much this improved my attitude. (cause I
really felt like shit Friday night, sorry for the transferance, Nate)
Kind of the GET BACK ON THE HORSE philosophy. It helped because:
1) It forced me to NOT THINK about (read DWELL ON) my FAILURES, but
rather, concentrate on the SKILLS I NEED TO ACQUIRE TO BECOME
SUCCESSFUL.
2) Kino improves self esteem. Even though she did not reciprocate,
the kino I was doing on her made ME feel better. You know... the
healing power of touch. Actually, although I'm sure its sacrilegious
to say so in this ng, I have to admit I miss having my arm
around/holding a woman more than I do the sex.
3) It reinforced that there are ALWAYS other options (women). Having
more than one iron in the fire GREATLY reduces the pressure to be
successful with any one woman. This has been said before, but is so
important, it deserves mentioning again, and again, and again...
Was this sarging attempt successful? Not in the strict definition of
this ng. But, I met my mini-goal (minime goal?) of PRACTICING the art
of seduction. Every journey consists of small steps.
LESSONS LEARNED:
1. If you crash and burn, GET BACK ON THE HORSE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
2. Then, set an achievable goal (no matter how small) and GO DO IT!
Thanks for the encouragement, Re><.
BG
night...@hotmail.com
lauhe...@SPAMfgi.net (Big Guy) wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:45:01 GMT, night...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> (snip)
>
> Not sure if these questions are rhetorical, will answer them anyway...
> Nightlight9 asked:
> >
> >In person on email. Please say, in person. How did you get her
number?
>
> In person. Got her number before this, in person.
Good!
> >> BG ANALYSIS: She LIED to me. There really wasn't any purpose in
> >> lying to me. Showed total lack of respect. And, I let her off the
> >> hook. Total AFC.
>
> Nightlight wrote:
> >You need to not accept this as no big deal. You need to 1. Go off
on
> >what an @sshole the guy is or 2. go off on her for lying. I would
> >vote for 1 in this case, but a lot of guys here seem to go for 2. I
> >would use this to build rapport. I would go on about how some girl
was
> >stalked me once.
> 1 is probably the better of the two. Build rapport.
For me too, but understanding your options is important, that's why I
will work on 2 as well. I would postulate that this will work with
some girls better than others. To me this reeks of a self esteem game
(10's can have huge self esteem problems and 6's can be totally
confident).
> I'm not sure how I could have done 2 without coming off as a jerk.
> Perhaps if I just calmly said "About lying to me. I understand that
> in the heat of the moment, we can do things that we later regret. But
> I need to tell you... I don't take it lightly. I only go out with
> people who I can trust. Is this going to be a problem? Maybe we
> should cancel the date this weekend."
Do you see how supplicating this is. You sound like "I'm an upset
little boy and logically you should placate me... please... OK???" If
you cancel a date, cancel it. Don't threaten to cancel it unless you
mean it. Don't use the word maybe except for very specific occasions.
This is not one of them. You don't sound convincing above you sound PC
and rehearsed. Try something like "Listen, I know you are having
trouble with your ex-BF, but I don't accept being lied to, do you?
(wait for her to say something, however long it takes). (she should
eventually say no.) Ok, I'm glad to know this won't happen again."
> >Does she have a message machine? If she does and you don't leave
one,
> >why would she call you back unless you gave her some reasons to want
> >you. You have an opening at this point, but you aren't in. They are
> >two different things. Getting her phone number is not the same as
her
> >wanting you...
>
> No answering machine. She screens her calls with Caller ID. In these
> situations in the future, I am blocking my number with *67.
Not a bad plan, but you can't expect her to call back with no message.
I would suggest just limiting the amount of calls (aren't you busy with
other stuff anyway?). This is why you need multiple chicks or atleast
multiple leads!!!
> Should have gone ballistic. Would have been difficult as there were
> two other co-workers standing there. Better yet, I should have said
> matter of factly "Look... if you still want to go see the movie this
> weekend... YOU CALL ME... otherwise, I'm going to be making other
> plans."
I think at this point you had already blown it, but don't at the
otherwise part, once again it's supplicating!!! (If you don't call,
I'll make other plans.)