====== Alt.Seduction.Fast FAQ And Information 1/2 1/1/07 ======
speeding
Posting-Frequency: weekly
Last-modified: 12/18/2006
One of the first FAQs for ASF, dating back to 1994, can be found at
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.seduction.fast/browse_thread/thread/cb
1070b38474952b/1f8ddef64090b6f5?hl=en#1f8ddef64090b6f5
This FAQ is currently under ongoing changes. Please post a comment in the
thread for any changes, additions, or corrections you'd like to see. The
actual posting of the FAQ is currently maintained by Speeding, with input
from Now Im Confused and dracozna. All input is welcomed and open for
discussion. This document has been created to answer questions about
seduction related information and discussion. While some products,
services, or individuals might be named in this document, no endorcement
or sponsorship is meant or should be implied. This document contains six
parts formatted in two files.
File 1/2
I : Guidelines For Posting
II : History of ASF
III : Where To Start / What To Expect
File 2/2
IV : Common Acronyms
V : Phrases / Concepts
VI : Gurus, Methods, and Related Websites
I : Guidelines For Posting
The goals of this newsgroup are to discuss and improve the ideas and
methods used in social dynamics relating to other people and the
seduction of people, generally women of the opposite sex. Please make
sure that your post is related to the above goals of the newsgroup. ASF
deals with potentially mature subject matter and is not a place for
discussing the morality of seduction. Morality and lifestyle judgements
are generally not desired or welcomed. Nor are flames, insults, or
advertisements.
II : HISTORY OF ASF
#1: What is alt.seduction.fast?
#2: So, what is Alt.Seduction.Fast like today?
#3: Do you have to have any of Ross's products, or other products, to
participate?
#4: Can women participate in ASF?
#5: Are personals allowed in ASF?
#6: Will Ross or other gurus answer questions I ask?
#7: Is advertising allowed in ASF?
#8: Who is this Gordon person? Why not ignore him?
#9: What is this moderated ASF that I've heard about?
#10: Is a forum better than ASF?
This is the original Question #1 from the 1994 FAQ listed above....
1. What is alt.seduction.fast?
A discussion/ongoing exchange about the ideas, techniques and secrets of
Speed Seduction. Speed Seduction is the creation of Ross Jeffries, and it
is an outgrowth/special application of Neuro-Linguistic Programming.
Ross has developed methods that any man can use to attract the best
looking women, quickly and easily, using NLP language/persuasion patterns
specifically geared for seduction.
2. So, what is Alt.Seduction.Fast like today?
Alt.Seduction.Fast is still an unmoderated Usenet group that, ideally,
discusses methods that any man can use to attract high quality women. It
is commonly refered to as ASF and the term "The Community" is often a
reference to a somewhat underground society of men that aspire to become,
or already are, PUAs. The focus of ASF has moved from Ross Jeffries
product to a more open discussion of all commerical products and also of
seduction topics in general.
As of 11/16/2006, based on Google Groups, only two other groups exist on
Usenet specifically for seduction. Alt.Seduction is the root group and
Alt.Seduction.Outfoxing was a group created to discuss a competing
commerical product. ASF is listed as having "High" activity with 1689
subscribers, Alt.Seduction is listed as having low activity with 146
subscribers, and Alt.Seduction.Outfoxing is listed as having low activity
with 64 subscribers. Please note, there is *NO* moderated version of ASF
on Usenet. (see question #9)
The community has existed for quite some time, but the introduction of
the Internet has enabled previously taboo and less than open topics to
come to light. The seduction of men and women is no exception. The idea
that men can use certain scientifically documentable and reproducible
processes to help garner a higher than average success rate was first
garnered in books such as "The Lay Guide", "Foxhunting", and "Double Your
Dating". ASF was created to market, discuss, and improve a product called
Speed Seduction, which relies heavily on a new concept of Neuro-
Linguistic Programming. Ross and other seduction "gurus" became guests on
radio and TV talk shows about the controversial idea that women could be
"gamed".
With the introduction in 2005 of a book called "The Game", the idea of
seduction, which had been slowly gathering steam into mainstream, made a
breakthrough into true mainstream exposure. Neil Struass, the author, has
been a guest on many TV and radio shows. Since then, there have been
numerous magazine articles and even a TV show regardin seduction. The
business of seduction training went from being mostly an underground
movement into a multi-million dollar industry. Yet, the secrecy and
closed-mindedness of the seduction community is often still evident.
#3: Do you have to have any of Ross's products, or other products, to
participate?
No, but it helps to have at least some knowledge of the community. Anyone
with an open mind willing to share pickup/seduction secrets may
participate. There are numerous websites and products now available with
information.
#4: Can women participate in ASF?
Of course, provided they stay open-minded and are willing to discuss, not
flame. Seduction techniques can also be used by women to seduce whomever
they desire. Their input is also welcomed as an alternative point of
view. Though, there is a commonly held view that many women would
disagree as to the effectiveness of seduction material. Even while being
seduced by it. Women are very welcome here.
#5: Are personals allowed in ASF?
No. Please post personals in the appropiate alt.personals groups. If you
are looking for a wingmate, you can certainly ask here, but your odds of
getting a successful reply are low. There are many websites you can look
to for finding a wingmate. Two of the best sites for such endeavors might
be http://www.themysterymethod.com and P.A.I.R., located at
http://www.fastseduction.com/pair.shtml.
#6: Will Ross or other "gurus" answer questions I ask?
It's rare here, but it happens from time to time. There are plenty of
helpful... and not so helpful... posters willing to offer advice and
assistance. The true masters of seduction that kicked off the community
have largely moved on to more profitable ventures. So, you might get
answers, but free answers from a "guru" will be less than common. And,
keep in mind the shopper's law... caveat emptor.
#7: Is advertising allowed in ASF?
No. But since it is not a moderated group, there's no real enforcement
for this. Originally, the FAQ stated that ads could be submitted to Ross
Jeffries and he would decide how to assist in marketing. Ross has moved
on. You will find that some ads are very much unwelcomed. Other ads are
met with a warm reception. If you are here to sell something, you should
already realize that Usenet is a poor marketing choice. If you are here
to read... then you should again refer to caveat emptor.
#8: Who is this Gordon person? Why not ignore him?
This should perhaps be the new #1 question. Nearly every newcomer asks
it. The reply is nearly always the same. The truth is likely in the
middle. Yes, there is a person that regularly posts to ASF that has made
a HUGE number of extremely obnoxious posts. If you really wish to know
about these posts, just ask, and there will be plenty of replies about
the posting history of this person.
Ignoring him might, in fact, work. The common reply to this question is
that it does not. However, only one time in ASF history has there been an
actual concerted effort to ignore a poster. On 9/11/2006, there was a
request made to ignore a poster and only two posters replied to that
person on 9/11/2006. Whether it had an effect or not is perhaps
conjecture, though the poster's activity dropped on that day by well over
50%.
Perhaps the best answer for the question of ignoring a poster would be --
Do so if you desire, but do not bother with asking for others to do so
also.
#9: What is this moderated version of ASF that I've heard about?
mASF is not a moderated version of ASF, nor was it created to be such. A
detailed search of ASF posts shows that a website forum was created and
called mASF, but it was primarily created, as the posts back then stated,
to avoid having to answer repeated newcomer questions. While many will
state that it was created to avoid a particular poster, this claim is
highly dubious, as there is a long history of two posters that were/are
commonly considered disruptive to ASF. But, there is no record in the ASF
archives of any serious attempt to create a moderated ASF on Usenet.
Cost-free to use, mASF is a private forum on a private commerical
website, www.fastseduction.com. While it does contain a wealth of
seduction information, and many would claim it is the best location of
such information, it is a still a private forum operated on a private
commerical website as a for-profit business. There are many private
forums that contain seduction information.
#10: Is a forum better than ASF?
With any private service on a private website owned and operated as a
for-profit venture, you do not have the same freedoms that you have on
Usenet. On Usenet, your posts can not be deleted, censored, or altered,
once you have posted them. On a private server, your posts can be
deleted, censored, or altered with or without your permission. Usenet is
a free public service that is not owned by anyone and is highly unlikely
to ever cease to exist. Any privately owned website can be terminated at
any time and for any reason.
ASF is an unmoderated Usenet group. This means that anyone can post
anything they wish, within the limits of the law, and no one can do
anything other than complain about it. Like any unmoderated Usenet group,
there are flame wars, trolls, ads, vulgarity, and other behavior that
some people might not care to see. Anyone can post and anyone can read
the posts. Posts are nearly impossible to remove once made, due to the
nature of Usenet. Searching Usenet is rather limited, unless you use a
service that assists in such an endeavor. And while Usenet posts are
relatively permanent, the provider you use to access Usenet might not
store Usenet posts for nearly as long as other Usenet providers. But, you
can make a safe assumption your post will be preservered for posterity
somewhere.
On a private service, there may or may not be moderation. If there is
moderation, you may or may not have some input into the level of
moderation. But, ultimately, a private server has owners. People in
control. If the owners decide to shut down (or have to) then your posts
and any posts you enjoyed could easily be gone forever. Your posts can be
removed, moved, or even altered and this is completely at the whim of the
owners and moderators of the private forum. But, there is a much better
ratio of posts on-topic, while flames, ads, and other offensive behavior
is likely to be very low or nearly non-existant. If the forum has such a
capabilty, you might be able to perform very detailed searches on
postings. A forum is often organized into a much more readable format and
important topics and threads, if such is provided, can be made
"sticky"... meaning they are always at the top of the forum listing. Some
forums even provide the abilty to notify you via e-mail when a thread you
are interested in has a new posting entered on it.
So, the question of which is better is a personal preference, akin to
asking Mac versus PC. It depends on what you want.
III : Where To Start / What To Expect
The best place to start would be to read ASF postings. Read the FAQ and
get aquainted with the acronyms, phrases, terminology, and philosophies
of the community. Visiting the websites listed in Part 2 of this document
would also be a good investment of time. The newbie mission is commonly
the first suggested kickoff. Quite simply, your goal is to go out for
four weeks, four days each week, four hours each day, and talk to four
women per hour... without any concerns to picking the women up or even
what they look like. The goal is to simply get better at approaching and
talking with women. Often, this is followed with the eye contact mission,
in which you go out and practice making and keeping eye conact with women
(and even men) to see how important eye contact is and to develop a feel
for how to use EC to generate positive results.
Another helpful idea would be to start an analysis of what you want to
gain and what you expect or hope to achieve. An obvious first thought is
"I want to get laid." or "I want a woman". But be more specific for
yourself. Ask yourself what you are willing to do to achive your goals.
Ask yourself what you expect once you do. Ask what you plan to do once
you achieve this goal. Ask what you plan to do if you fail to achieve
your goal. Ask what your motivation for the goal is. It is you that needs
to determine what you expect from ASF and from improving your seduction
abilities. You that needs to determine what your level of success is.
You also need to decide how much you are willing to work to achieve your
goals. In time. In energy. In money. You need to decide what aspects of
yourself need to be improved.
But, what you should expect is that nothing will answer all your
questions. ASF is a guide to a better way of life. It's a guide to
improving your life.
--- End 1/2 ----
Odious
"speeding" <no...@biz.org> wrote in message
news:Xns98AB91367...@69.28.186.120...
> Ignoring him might, in fact, work. The common reply to this question is
> that it does not. However, only one time in ASF history has there been an
> actual concerted effort to ignore a poster. On 9/11/2006, there was a
> request made to ignore a poster and only two posters replied to that
>person on 9/11/2006. Whether it had an effect or not is perhaps
> conjecture, though the poster's activity dropped on that day by well over
> 50%.
>
Is speeding intentionaly ignoring the fact that gordo google nuked most of
the posts he made on and around 9-11-01?
An Old Friend
"Odious" <Odi...@cox.net.nospam> wrote:
Not most, Odious. All.
Unless Ray's willing to admit to using more than one unique email
address at that particular time.
However, speeding is talking about September 11, 2006, which is five
years after September 11, 2001.
Actually, I've noticed that the more I enter into threads, the more Ray
stays out of them and appears to refuse to respond any further.
dman
You should reply to every thread, just right "hi Ray!"
Reminds me, got a girl's number on friday with the name Rayray.
Provided so much comic amusement for me...
Ray Gordon, creator of the "pivot"
>> stays out of them and appears to refuse to respond any further.
>
> You should reply to every thread, just right "hi Ray!"
"AnOldFriend" is a sicko stalker who made a series of death threats against
me the last time he was on this group.
I don't respond to stalkers as a rule since it shows, rather unequivocally,
who the aggressor is.
--
Ray Gordon, Author
The OFFICIAL Ray Gordon Blog:
http://moderncaveman.typepad.com
Alex
Odi...@cox.net.nospam wrote on 1/2/07 1:01 AM:
Or that basing a conclusion on a one-time, uncontrolled experiment is
TERRIBLE science?
speeding
news:C1BFA341.EB6AA%akau...@nyc.NOSPAM.rr.com:
> in article azmmh.44384$Mf4....@newsfe15.lga, Odious at
> Odi...@cox.net.nospam wrote on 1/2/07 1:01 AM:
>
>>
>> "speeding" <no...@biz.org> wrote in message
>> news:Xns98AB91367...@69.28.186.120...
>>
>>> Ignoring him might, in fact, work. The common reply to this question
>>> is that it does not. However, only one time in ASF history has there
>>> been an actual concerted effort to ignore a poster. On 9/11/2006,
>>> there was a request made to ignore a poster and only two posters
>>> replied to that person on 9/11/2006. Whether it had an effect or not
>>> is perhaps conjecture, though the poster's activity dropped on that
>>> day by well over 50%.
>>>
> Or that basing a conclusion on a one-time, uncontrolled experiment is
> TERRIBLE science?
Not at all. When you have only one sample size to use, then it's all you
have. So, with that, you form a hypothesis. 9/11/06 is the only time in
ASF history that Gordon was ignored by ASF readers in any manner of
concerted or organized effort.
--
You could be a Cylon and not even know it...
Thom E. Geiger
\"pivot\"" <r...@cybersheet.com> wrote:
>"AnOldFriend" is a sicko stalker who made a series of death threats against
>me the last time he was on this group.
What?? Did he forget the magic words, "if it were legal..."? Hunh,
Parker? Cat got your tongue?
>I don't respond to stalkers as a rule since it shows, rather unequivocally,
>who the aggressor is.
Bullshit, since 99.999% of the time, it's you doing the stalking,
asswipe. Gordon Roy Parker, they name is INFINITY. Google it up and
see.
Thom E. Geiger, Domain Name Owner
ChewOnThis.Org
(the Official GRP NewsLoon tracking website)
Ray-Gordon.com
Ray-Gordon.net
Newsloon.com
Don't buy anything from any business trying to use SLAPP lawsuits to
stop criticism of the company, owners, officers or products.
Guido Gump Parker blames a baseball bat death threat on his own mother, Penny "Skull Crusher" Parker:
>The "baseball bat" remark was made by my mom in response to a gymnastics
>groupie who harassed half of the national team, with help from several chat
>hosts and gymnastics coaches and hackers.
Ray Gordon, creator of the "pivot"
>>against
>>me the last time he was on this group.
>
> What?? Did he forget the magic words, "if it were legal..."?
Someone who claims to have a total archive of this group would have seen all
the messages as they were posted. Lord knows the ISP did when I subpoenaed
them.
Someone trying to portray me in a false light by "forgetting" stuff like
that would definitely not have much credibility, that's for sure. In fact,
it would kind of destroy his entire argument that all this crap is so
one-sided.
Of course, since I don't want to be accused of republicizing any defamation
or threats here (even if I have the right to do so), that's best saved for a
court of law where I can give my side without flames or interruptions.
I'm patient.
Ray Gordon, creator of the "pivot"
>> TERRIBLE science?
All the PUA methods have been tested through UNCONTROLLED EXPERIMENTS (so
far).
Perhaps it's time for a true academic study of the various methods.
An Old Friend
"Ray Gordon, creator of the \"pivot\"" <r...@cybersheet.com> wrote:
> >>"AnOldFriend" is a sicko stalker who made a series of death threats
> >>against me the last time he was on this group.
> >
> > What?? Did he forget the magic words, "if it were legal..."?
>
> Someone who claims to have a total archive of this group would have
> seen all the messages as they were posted. Lord knows the ISP did
> when I subpoenaed them.
Does that include all the posts you nuked? Or was it selective?
And if all of that is true, then why wasn't I criminally prosecuted at
that very moment? Maybe it's because I didn't do anything illegal?
Fess up. You have nothing against whoever you think I am.
Unless you manufacture it out of your self-professed (under penalty of
perjury) major chronic mental illness.
> Someone trying to portray me in a false light by "forgetting" stuff
> like that would definitely not have much credibility, that's for
> sure. In fact, it would kind of destroy his entire argument that all
> this crap is so one-sided.
>
> Of course, since I don't want to be accused of republicizing any
> defamation or threats here (even if I have the right to do so),
> that's best saved for a court of law where I can give my side without
> flames or interruptions.
>
> I'm patient.
I've been quite patient, too. Seems like some litigant is afraid to
actually get me into court (assuming he really knows who I am).
The "republication" argument is simply a smoke screen. You know that if
you so much as mention a post, people will look and view the thread in
as complete a form as possible ... minus your nuked posts, of course
... but intelligent readers can make their own conclusions. And you're
completely terrified of what you know (when you are rational and
logical) their conclusions will be.
That's why the only way you and I will EVER be in a courtroom together
is if *I* sue you for something, or if we just happen to be in the same
area and decide to go watch a trial for the fun of it.
Because it will NEVER be because you were successful in getting me into
a courtroom. And that, my dear Ray, is not only because you don't have
a case against me, but also because you don't have the BALLS to do so.
Now go see how much more financial assistance your mother has to give
you before you can pay your share of the rent this month, MAMAS-BOY
Ray.
An Old Friend
"Ray Gordon, creator of the \"pivot\"" <r...@cybersheet.com> wrote:
> >> Actually, I've noticed that the more I enter into threads, the more Ray
> >> stays out of them and appears to refuse to respond any further.
> >
> > You should reply to every thread, just right "hi Ray!"
>
> "AnOldFriend" is a sicko stalker who made a series of death threats against
> me the last time he was on this group.
But Ray, you stated that I was almost placed in prison, so therefore you
must have some information that no one else (even local law enforcement)
has.
C'mon, tough girlyman punk wannabe. Fess up and call my bluff. I DARE
you.
Oh wait, you said that the police wouldn't or couldn't investigate
because I'm anonymous. But then that means that you lied when you said
you know who I am.
>
> I don't respond to stalkers as a rule
Yet until I started asking about the police case investigation number,
you responded to me and my posts not infrequently.
And yes, I have proof of that.
> since it shows, rather unequivocally, who the aggressor is.
Especially since it appears that someone is lying about some alleged
death threats. That would make the person constantly posting about the
alleged death threats in an attempt to silence someone the real
aggressor.
Were your allegations important enough for the police to start an
investigation? If so, who was the chief officer in that investigation?
What was the case identification number?
Or did you choose not to report anything to law enforcement? Gee, I
wonder why ... maybe because I never did anything wrong to begin with?
And besides that, you've used up all your "capital" with the police long
ago anyway crying "wolf," haven't you?
Not too hard to connect the dots here ...
speeding
news:1Kmdnec7FuzUGwfY...@pghconnect.com:
>>> Or that basing a conclusion on a one-time, uncontrolled experiment
>>> is TERRIBLE science?
>
> All the PUA methods have been tested through UNCONTROLLED EXPERIMENTS
> (so far).
All experiments are documented, but uncontrolled, with the exception of
one that is labeled the CONTROL for that very reason. The point of
experimentation is to determine if uncontrolled random events will prove
or disprove a theory as compared to the control sample.
> Perhaps it's time for a true academic study of the various methods.
Perhaps there is a reason it's called Seduction ART and not Seduction
SCIENCE. But, yes, an acedemic study of the various methods would be
nice. It would be akin to studying the differences in using a hammer, a
nail gun, and a bare hand in inserting nails into a 2x4... wouldn't you
agree?
Old Fart
>rather unequivocally, who the aggressor is.
.and who the gut-less coward is...
JJTj
>>>>I already have a laywer who has won a big defamation case in MA willing to
>>>>take a free look at my file concerning you. Now I just have one more page
>>>>to fax him.
>>"..Tell us all again about this
>>'lawyer' in MASS you have ready
>>to sue me? Is there a reason WHY
>>you won't name 'him (her?)' BESIDES
>>the reason there ISN't any lawyer and
>>it's just you spewing another cowardly,
>>impotent threat..? Just WHAT is stopping U..?.."
>>I'm all ready to call him/her NOW..
>>Tell us again, coward, why you are too scared to
>>provide this person's name? You stated you have
>>spoken\fax'ed this person about me, yet you cannot
>>NAME this person. You have my contact INFO, I have
>>posted it here..tell the world, child molester...
Alex
creator of the "pivot" at r...@cybersheet.com wrote on 1/2/07 11:20 AM:
>>> Or that basing a conclusion on a one-time, uncontrolled experiment is
>>> TERRIBLE science?
>
> All the PUA methods have been tested through UNCONTROLLED EXPERIMENTS (so
> far).
And yet it's been more than the one time mentioned above.
Do you not understand what you read or do you simply ignore the words you
don't like?
>
> Perhaps it's time for a true academic study of the various methods.
>
That sounds like it would be fun for a dork who can't seem to use any of
them anyway.
I nominate the fr00t l00p.
dman
Ray Gordon, creator of the "pivot" wrote:
> >> Or that basing a conclusion on a one-time, uncontrolled experiment is
> >> TERRIBLE science?
>
> All the PUA methods have been tested through UNCONTROLLED EXPERIMENTS (so
> far).
>
> Perhaps it's time for a true academic study of the various methods.
What would you propose instead?
Thom E. Geiger
>
>>rather unequivocally, who the aggressor is.
>
>
>.and who the gut-less coward is...
>
>
>
>JJTj
That's the conundrum. Gordon Roy Parker's a gutless coward with about
400 pounds of excess gut. It's enough to drive Stephen Hawking crazy.
Thom E. Geiger
\"pivot\"" <r...@cybersheet.com> wrote:
>>> Or that basing a conclusion on a one-time, uncontrolled experiment is
>>> TERRIBLE science?
>
>All the PUA methods have been tested through UNCONTROLLED EXPERIMENTS (so
>far).
>
>Perhaps it's time for a true academic study of the various methods.
Perhaps it's time for you to put up or shut up wth proof you've used
your own "methods" succcessfully at least once in your life. You
can't do it, can you?
Thom E. Geiger
\"pivot\"" <r...@cybersheet.com> wrote:
>>>"AnOldFriend" is a sicko stalker who made a series of death threats
>>>against
>>>me the last time he was on this group.
>>
>> What?? Did he forget the magic words, "if it were legal..."?
>
>Someone who claims to have a total archive of this group would have seen all
>the messages as they were posted. Lord knows the ISP did when I subpoenaed
>them.
Geez, you lying shithead. What happened to your spoilage argument,
asswipe. Need me to post it here so anybody you harass with subpoenas
can use it against you?
>Someone trying to portray me in a false light by "forgetting" stuff like
>that would definitely not have much credibility, that's for sure. In fact,
>it would kind of destroy his entire argument that all this crap is so
>one-sided.
Bullshit. I'll bet my credibility against yours any day. Ulike you,
Parker, I can prove what I say.
>Of course, since I don't want to be accused of republicizing any defamation
>or threats here (even if I have the right to do so), that's best saved for a
>court of law where I can give my side without flames or interruptions.
>
>I'm patient.
You're a shithead. But maybe you can let everybody see you answer - -
>>>>>>>Hey Parker, can you prove you've ever used your own "product"
>>>>>>> successfully at least once in your life?
Guess not.
HeeroYuy
"Ray Gordon, creator of the "pivot"" <r...@cybersheet.com> wrote in message
news:1Kmdnec7FuzUGwfY...@pghconnect.com...
>>> Or that basing a conclusion on a one-time, uncontrolled experiment is
>>> TERRIBLE science?
>
> All the PUA methods have been tested through UNCONTROLLED EXPERIMENTS (so
> far).
>
> Perhaps it's time for a true academic study of the various methods.
How about you shut up when you aren't being addressed, or is speeding
stealing your thunder?