SEDUCTION TRENDS: Why Women Test Guys
Darkness
Bravo! Bravo! Good post.
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The Seduction Library
Reading through asf, I've noticed recently that there has been a lot of
stuff said, and inquired about, as to why women test guys. Well I'm here
to give (hopefully) some of the newbies, or anyone else who's
interesting, perhaps a better understanding of what this "testing" shit
all comes down to these days. Now it's obvious from reading some of
these posts, that a lot of guys are resentful about the fact that women
do this. Pull these "jackass" tests on them.
<----------Not ALL women, and not at all times. If you are an SSer, you
also suffer a form of sampling bias here because the type of women not
put off by SS are the ones most likely to give you a shit test, or a more
severe one. You're not counting the women who run off when they see a
creep coming, but instead who test men to see if they are in fact creeps.
Well, I've got some news for you guys. You better learn to fucking GET
OVER IT, and learn how to make it work FOR you rather than letting it
make you into a bitter SOB.
First of all, realize this; ANY form of resentment towards women,
WHATEVER your resons may be, will ONLY cause you more problems with them
and contribute even MORE to you NOT getting what you want from them.
Harboring resentment towards women is like dumping water on a fire. It
KILLS your chances. Women can pick up on this more than you probably
realize. Yes, you may be able to mask it for a while, but eventually it
will show through, and it will make women NOT WANT TO BE AROUND YOU.
<-----------So? You're saying that men can't express their true feelings
to women. And for the most part, they cannot, UNLESS they know how to
hold their ground. Women will often react negatively to a man who sees
through them....at first.....but that is also a shit test. Let her know
that the threat of ostracizing you won't work on you, let her run away
from you and into the arms of a man much worse, and she will often be the
one who crumbles. Advising men to kiss their asses makes the problem
worse: we tell them what they want to hear, and they are never held
accountable for their behavior. If you are seeking a WIFE and not just a
one-night stand, it can be worth the effort to CHANGE HER THINKING. A
simple scenario is like the one which occurred with Michelle and I: the
other guy talked a big game, painted me as someone who wanted to use her,
yet he was the one who didn't last. After she went through him, she said
she had made a mistake in choosing me. Had I wanted her, I could have
resumed with her without a problem, and without much more of a pickup
effort.
It is my hope that this post will be a helpful "tool", if you will, for
helping you to better understand WHY women do things that they do. And
by understanding it, help you to not take some of the shit they do
personally.
Ok, down to the point. Why do women test men so much?
The short and simple answer: Because THEY HAVE TO.
Ok, let me throw a bit of NLP stuff at you here. There is
a basic presupposition in NLP that says:"EVERY behavior seeks to
accomplish something useful in SOME context!"
So what is this saying? Well the long and short of it is that
ANY behavior that a woman exhibits (or any person) is an
attempt to serve SOME purpose which is benificial to her
better interests and desires and needs.
IOW, there is a REASON that women are constantly putting
guys through jackass tests.
<---------Yes, for the same reason that smart men test their women. I
test them on civil rights issues mostly on the theory that that's a good
ethical test. Most men here just check for a hot body and an open pussy.
Ok let's look at this in yet another way. I have said this to guys
before, and I'll say it again here. What if it were YOU who was the
beautiful woman? The HB? Don't buy into that bullshit that beautiful
women "never get approached or asked out" because men are so "intimidated
by their good looks." That's a total bullshit myth.
<-----QUALITY men get scared. They are left only with the creeps like
the ones from this group. Another problem is that they expect the nice
men to be too smooth and often ignore the approach.
HBs are almost CONSTANTLY being eyed up and hit on by every sleazoid
scumbag under the sun. And by EVERY type of guy, good looking ones as
well as not so good looking ones. So, again, Imagine that YOU are the HB
in this instance. Maybe you get hit on and asked out anywhere from 10 to
20 times a day depending on how much exposure you have out in the world.
But you are CONSTANTLY being eyed up.
You always see men looking at you with lust, undressing you with their
eyes, and you KNOW they have one thing on their mind and one thing only;
FUCKING you!
<---------That's why aging HB are so vulnerable, and why negs work so
well. But how long will that last if the advice is spreading so quickly?
Ok, let's apply some logic here. Do you think women are actually going to
want to fuck any and all of these guys who hit on them and ask them out?
Fuck maybe 5, 10
or 20 guys a day? Not likely.
For women, having to blow guys off is all routine to them.
It becomes SO routine in fact, that they may end up blowing
off some of the rare good ones along with all the dirtbags.
<-------Yes, and there are ways to take advantage of this.
Now on occasion, a woman will have a man ask her out who strikes her
fancy, for whatever reason. (This should be YOU, btw) But in order to
make sure that this guy
isn't just like EVERY other inept asshole that she's gone out with in the
past.... SHE TESTS HIM. If you really think about this here, you may
begin to understand that a woman, especially an HB, is almost FORCED into
the position of having to do this. Yes we think it sucks, yes we can get
resentful over it, but why? It's because you are looking at her tests in
the WRONG way. When a woman is testing you, it can be a very, very good
thing. If the woman were not thinking about seriously wanting to fuck
you, or have a relationship with you, she wouldn't even BOTHER testing
you! So when a woman throws "jackass" tests at you, what she is REALLY
doing is structuring a set of "doorways" that you must successfully walk
through in order to get into her pants. Now if the woman is setting up
these doorways for you, it presupposes that she is doing it
because she WANTS to have a chance at fucking you or getting in to an LTR
with you or whatever. So realize one very important thing; When a woman
tests you, whether
she is doing it consciously or subconsciously (usually the latter, as
woman are PROGRAMMED to do this) she is actually STRUCTURING a way for
you to get her.
And is more than likely HOPING that you will be able to walk through all
of the doorways, or you wouldn't have gotten this far with her to begin
with. And not only that
but she is just hoping against hope, that you are NOT like all the other
AFCs she's gone out with in the past.
<-----Tests you for WHAT? Being a jerk? That's only if she values
jerks. Not all women do. The ones who don't just tend to be SS-immune.
You have a sampling bias here.
Consider this. When you go out with a woman, and you want to get some
pussy, what is it that you are really after initially? Her pussy? No. You
are after her MIND first. A woman's mind is the doorway TO the pussy. If
you can't get into that, you're NOT going to get in to the latter.
<---------Unless women realize men are only going after their "minds" to
get in their pants, and the rules change.
I'd like you to consider this very simple analogy when dealing with
women. Think of a woman's mind like a bank vault door. This door has
several combination
dials across the front of it, (say 3 or 4). When all of the numbers to
the combination are input correctly and in the proper sequence, you spin
the wheel, pull the handle and the door opens. Now, exactly what happens
once this takes place? Well, it now allows
anything that's on the inside to be taken out, and ALSO, anything that
you wish to put in to be PUT IN. Believe it or not, it really is just
that simple when you are dealing with women. All women have their
particular "combination", which when PROPERLY
entered, will allow you to take out whatever you wish and put in whatever
you wish. It's really just about that simple.
<-----------So you're saying that technique is the most reliable way to
get laid. And it is. It's just not the most reliable way to find a
wife.
You COULD look at the combination as the combination to the chick's pants
zipper. However, I personally prefer to look at it as the combination to
the mind itself. Why?
Because once that door is opened in just the right way, you not only have
the combination to her pants, but just about anything else as well. If
you've dialed in the
combination correctly, and you say, "lets go back to your place for some
incredible mind-blowing sex!", the chick says "ok!" Remember, with an
open door, things can be
put IN as well as taken OUT. In other words, she puts out, and you put
IN! :) LoL. That was kinda crass. But seriously, when you have this
condition established,
you can put any suggestions in (as well as other things) and she will
GIVE information (and other things) out.
<----------You're saying to do what women require us to do to get laid,
thus putting getting laid above being true to ourselves.
So in summary, the "combination door" metaphor can be a very useful way
of looking at your interactions with any particular woman. Every woman
has her particular
combination which allows her to open to you. So relating this all back to
idea of women testing men, you can think of a woman's tests as just one
of those combination dials on the vault door. It has to be there, and it
has to be dialed correctly, or the door don't open.
<--------Testing for what? Your ability to be a jerk? Not all women do
this.
And the fact is, is that women really do WANT to find the guy who can
dial in her combination correctly. Good news is, you CAN be that guy.
<----------You give very little specifics.
The Seduction Library
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http://www.cybersheet.com/fox/index.html
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ALPHAHOT1
been a lot of stuff said, and inquired about, as to why
women test guys. Well I'm here to give (hopefully) some
of the newbies, or anyone else who's interesting, perhaps
a better understanding of what this "testing" shit all comes
down to these days.
Now it's obvious from reading some of these posts, that
a lot of guys are resentful about the fact that women do
this. Pull these "jackass" tests on them.
Well, I've got some news for you guys. You better learn to
fucking GET OVER IT, and learn how to make it work FOR
you rather than letting it make you into a bitter SOB.
First of all, realize this; ANY form of resentment towards
women, WHATEVER your resons may be, will ONLY cause
you more problems with them and contribute even MORE
to you NOT getting what you want from them. Harboring
resentment towards women is like dumping water on a
fire. It KILLS your chances. Women can pick up on this
more than you probably realize. Yes, you may be able to
mask it for a while, but eventually it will show through, and
it will make women NOT WANT TO BE AROUND YOU.
It is my hope that this post will be a helpful "tool", if you will,
for helping you to better understand WHY women do things
that they do. And by understanding it, help you to not take
some of the shit they do personally.
Ok, down to the point. Why do women test men so much?
The short and simple answer: Because THEY HAVE TO.
Ok, let me throw a bit of NLP stuff at you here. There is
a basic presupposition in NLP that says:
"EVERY behavior seeks to accomplish something useful
in SOME context!"
So what is this saying? Well the long and short of it is that
ANY behavior that a woman exhibits (or any person) is an
attempt to serve SOME purpose which is benificial to her
better interests and desires and needs.
IOW, there is a REASON that women are constantly putting
guys through jackass tests.
Ok let's look at this in yet another way. I have said this
to guys before, and I'll say it again here. What if it were
YOU who was the beautiful woman? The HB?
Don't buy into that bullshit that beautiful women "never get
approached or asked out" because men are so "intimidated
by their good looks." That's a total bullshit myth. HBs are
almost CONSTANTLY being eyed up and hit on by every
sleazoid scumbag under the sun. And by EVERY type of
guy, good looking ones as well as not so good looking ones.
So, again, Imagine that YOU are the HB in this instance.
Maybe you get hit on and asked out anywhere from 10 to
20 times a day depending on how much exposure you have
out in the world. But you are CONSTANTLY being eyed up.
You always see men looking at you with lust, undressing
you with their eyes, and you KNOW they have one thing
on their mind and one thing only; FUCKING you!
Ok, let's apply some logic here. Do you think women are
actually going to want to fuck any and all of these guys
who hit on them and ask them out? Fuck maybe 5, 10
or 20 guys a day? Not likely.
For women, having to blow guys off is all routine to them.
It becomes SO routine in fact, that they may end up blowing
off some of the rare good ones along with all the dirtbags.
Now on occasion, a woman will have a man ask her out
Consider this. When you go out with a woman, and you
want to get some pussy, what is it that you are really
after initially? Her pussy? No. You are after her MIND
first. A woman's mind is the doorway TO the pussy.
If you can't get into that, you're NOT going to get in
to the latter.
I'd like you to consider this very simple analogy when
dealing with women. Think of a woman's mind like a
bank vault door. This door has several combination
dials across the front of it, (say 3 or 4). When all of the
numbers to the combination are input correctly and
in the proper sequence, you spin the wheel, pull the
handle and the door opens. Now, exactly what
happens once this takes place? Well, it now allows
anything that's on the inside to be taken out, and
ALSO, anything that you wish to put in to be PUT IN.
Believe it or not, it really is just that simple when you
are dealing with women. All women have their
particular "combination", which when PROPERLY
entered, will allow you to take out whatever you wish
and put in whatever you wish. It's really just about
that simple.
You COULD look at the combination as the combination
to the chick's pants zipper. However, I personally prefer
to look at it as the combination to the mind itself. Why?
Because once that door is opened in just the right way,
you not only have the combination to her pants, but just
about anything else as well. If you've dialed in the
combination correctly, and you say, "lets go back to your
place for some incredible mind-blowing sex!", the chick
says "ok!" Remember, with an open door, things can be
put IN as well as taken OUT. In other words, she puts
out, and you put IN! :) LoL. That was kinda crass.
But seriously, when you have this condition established,
you can put any suggestions in (as well as other things) and
she will GIVE information (and other things) out.
So in summary, the "combination door" metaphor can be
a very useful way of looking at your interactions with any
particular woman. Every woman has her particular
combination which allows her to open to you.
So relating this all back to idea of women testing men,
you can think of a woman's tests as just one of those
combination dials on the vault door. It has to be there,
and it has to be dialed correctly, or the door don't open.
And the fact is, is that women really do WANT to find
the guy who can dial in her combination correctly.
Good news is, you CAN be that guy.
_______________________________
****************************************
It's So Fuckin Easy,
But Nothin Seems Ta Please Me
A. Rose
****************************************
Odious
The Seduction Library wrote:
>
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ALPHAHOT1
(stuff snipped)
<-----------So? You're saying that men can't express their true feelings
to women. And for the most part, they cannot, UNLESS they know how to
hold their ground.
:::::::That's what passing a woman's jackass tests
is all about. Standing up to her bullshit. Not performing
self-castration like most AFCs would.
Women will often react negatively to a man who sees
through them....at first.....but that is also a shit test. Let her know
that the threat of ostracizing you won't work on you, let her run away
from you and into the arms of a man much worse, and she will often be the
one who crumbles.
:::::::This all sounds really nice in theory. But in
reality, it doesn't get you laid. Letting a woman "run
to a worse man" than you, does absolutely NOTHING
for YOU. It's a thousand to one that she will come
"crawling back" for sex with you simply because a
"not so nice" guy treated her like shit, only to cry on
your shoulder and use you as an emotional tampon,
if at all.
(snip)
Most men here just check for a hot body and an open pussy.
:::::::It ranks.
<-----QUALITY men get scared. They are left only with the creeps like
the ones from this group. Another problem is that they expect the nice
men to be too smooth and often ignore the approach.
:::::::Depends on how you define "quality." I consider
myself a quality man for any woman. I'm willing to give
in order to receive. Not because I feel I have to, but
because the experience is something that is fun, enjoyable
and intriguing for me.
And there is a difference between a "smooth" approach
and a good SS approach.
<---------That's why aging HB are so vulnerable, and why negs work so
well. But how long will that last if the advice is spreading so quickly?
:::::::Seduction is, always has been, and always will
be a "move counter-move" game. We learn about their
secrets, they learn about ours. As a rule though, if you
always stay at the cutting edge, you should never have
too much of a problem.
(snip)
<-----Tests you for WHAT? Being a jerk? That's only if she values
jerks. Not all women do.
:::::::So you are equating not putting up with her
shit as being a "jerk." Passing her tests and not
putting up with shit doesn't make you a jerk, it
means you're a man with self-respect who does
not allow himself to be a doormat. I know very few
women who respect, or desire, a doormat.
<---------Unless women realize men are only going after their "minds" to
get in their pants, and the rules change.
:::::::What are the alternatives? Say, "Get in my car bitch,
we're going back to my place, you're going to take off your
pants, lie down, spread your legs and I'm going to fuck
you?" Somehow I don't think that would work well.
The seduction game has rules, ridiculous as some of
those rules may sometimes seem. But I concede to the fact that
there are rules nonetheless. If your not going to work
through a woman's mind, in one way or another, you're
only alternative becomes rape. And that's not an
alternative I'm prepared to condone or accept.
<-----------So you're saying that technique is the most reliable way to
get laid. And it is. It's just not the most reliable way to find a
wife.
:::::::I'm not actively looking for a wife. It's going to take
one hell of a woman before I come to that decision.
<----------You're saying to do what women require us to do to get laid,
thus putting getting laid above being true to ourselves.
:::::::I'm saying that the process of getting laid, is a
two-way street. Women want to be fulfilled emotionally
BEFORE they decide to have sex with you. And they
at least SHOULD full well expect to be satisfied WHEN
they have sex with you. It's a two-way street. Just because
my exact criteria for getting laid may not be exactly the
SAME as a woman's, I respect the fact the she has her
OWN unique criteria which she would like to have fulfilled
before she agrees to and really enjoys the act of having
sex with me. You don't get something for nothing. And
we don't all have the same wants and needs. But we
want ours specifically nevertheless. You like blue, but
your friend likes red. When you buy him/her that shirt
they've been wanting as a birthday present, do you buy
them the blue shirt because you like blue? Or the red
shirt because you know THEY like red? Buying them the
red shirt is not being untrue to yourself is it? It's common
sense.
<--------Testing for what? Your ability to be a jerk? Not all women do
this.
:::::::See above.
<----------You give very little specifics.
:::::::I give overall concept, more than specifics.
I do that by choice in asf. These are large chunk concepts,
not small chunk details. If you want details, read the books.
Jake Thomson
>
> Reading through asf, I've noticed recently that there has
> been a lot of stuff said, and inquired about, as to why
> women test guys. Well I'm here to give (hopefully) some
> of the newbies, or anyone else who's interesting, perhaps
> a better understanding of what this "testing" shit all comes
> down to these days.
>
>
GREAT REFRAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Into the seduction file it goes!
--
Two guys are walking down the street.
The first guy walks into a bar, the second one ducks.
Visit my web page:
http://www.users.uswest.net/~jakethomson
jaket...@uswest.net
rthroc...@my-deja.com
alph...@aol.com (ALPHAHOT1) wrote:
> Reading through asf, I've noticed recently that there has
> been a lot of stuff said, and inquired about, as to why
> women test guys. Well I'm here to give (hopefully) some
> of the newbies, or anyone else who's interesting, perhaps
> a better understanding of what this "testing" shit all comes
> down to these days.
>
> Now it's obvious from reading some of these posts, that
> a lot of guys are resentful about the fact that women do
> this. Pull these "jackass" tests on them.
>
> Well, I've got some news for you guys. You better learn to
> fucking GET OVER IT, and learn how to make it work FOR
> you rather than letting it make you into a bitter SOB.
> First of all, realize this; ANY form of resentment towards
> women, WHATEVER your resons may be, will ONLY cause
> you more problems with them and contribute even MORE
> to you NOT getting what you want from them. Harboring
> resentment towards women is like dumping water on a
> fire. It KILLS your chances. Women can pick up on this
> more than you probably realize. Yes, you may be able to
> mask it for a while, but eventually it will show through, and
> it will make women NOT WANT TO BE AROUND YOU.
What you're saying is dead right.
And it's extremely important for me, or any girl, to pick up on that
anger thing fast and get away from the guy as quickly as possible. It's
the angry guys that will hurt you, beat you up. Smart girls have learned
this from the inter-chick network. We're vulnerable.
Look, I weigh about 118 lbs and couldn't fight my way out of a wet sack.
If I'm out with a guy that's nearly twice my size and he flips out I'm
in serious trouble. It happens. Every girl, within her own circle of
g-friends, knows at least one girl who has been beaten up by her BF.
Whoa! It almost sounds like a girl wrote this. Because again - you're
absolutely right. And I really don't think guys understand how
intimidating it is, for some girls, to get hit on all the time.
> Ok, let's apply some logic here. Do you think women are
> actually going to want to fuck any and all of these guys
> who hit on them and ask them out? Fuck maybe 5, 10
> or 20 guys a day? Not likely.
(uhhh...that would hurt.)
> For women, having to blow guys off is all routine to them.
> It becomes SO routine in fact, that they may end up blowing
> off some of the rare good ones along with all the dirtbags.
>
> Now on occasion, a woman will have a man ask her out
> who strikes her fancy, for whatever reason. (This should
> be YOU, btw) But in order to make sure that this guy
> isn't just like EVERY other inept asshole that she's gone
> out with in the past.... SHE TESTS HIM.
> If you really think about this here, you may begin to
> understand that a woman, especially an HB, is almost
> FORCED into the position of having to do this. Yes we
> think it sucks, yes we can get resentful over it, but why?
> It's because you are looking at her tests in the WRONG
> way.
Wow! I'm impressed. Duh! Again, someone in this newsgroup has said
something that I wished I had said. But like some chicks take this
testing thing way too far and it can get unfair.
> When a woman is testing you, it can be a very, very good
> thing. If the woman were not thinking about seriously
> wanting to fuck you, or have a relationship with you,
> she wouldn't even BOTHER testing you!
> So when a woman throws "jackass" tests at you, what
> she is REALLY doing is structuring a set of "doorways"
> that you must successfully walk through in order to get
> into her pants.
Well, that's one of the "doors." Does this guy just want to screw me?
And if all he really wants is to lighten his load and go - well shit -
I'm not interested.
You see, most savvy girls know that guys are hunting for pussy. Guys
don't understand that biology dictates that we're hunting too - and not
just for any stiffy that comes along - but the right one. The one guy
who fits just right and will stick.
Because the guy is going to take possession of you in a very real way. I
think that guys are often so self-absorbed that they can't put
themselves in our position - I mean, most of the time in sex a guy who's
nearly twice your size is on top of you running the show. (I'm not
complaining - it's nature's way.) But it makes the whole perspective
different. And you want, at least I want, to be able to trust that guy.
> Now if the woman is setting up these
> doorways for you, it presupposes that she is doing it
> because she WANTS to have a chance at fucking you or
> getting in to an LTR with you or whatever. So realize one
> very important thing; When a woman tests you, whether
> she is doing it consciously or subconsciously (usually
> the latter, as woman are PROGRAMMED to do this)
> she is actually STRUCTURING a way for you to get her.
Yeah, I think most of it is subconscious. Ya gotta remember guys, it's
just biology.
> And is more than likely HOPING that you will be able to
> walk through all of the doorways, or you wouldn't have
> gotten this far with her to begin with. And not only that
> but she is just hoping against hope, that you are NOT
> like all the other AFCs she's gone out with in the past.
>
> Consider this. When you go out with a woman, and you
> want to get some pussy, what is it that you are really
> after initially? Her pussy? No. You are after her MIND
> first. A woman's mind is the doorway TO the pussy.
> If you can't get into that, you're NOT going to get in
> to the latter.
Crude, but true. Make her laugh. Laughter dispells fear. It quiets
doubts. Curiosity and laughter...
> I'd like you to consider this very simple analogy when
> dealing with women. Think of a woman's mind like a
> bank vault door. This door has several combination
> dials across the front of it, (say 3 or 4). When all of the
> numbers to the combination are input correctly and
> in the proper sequence, you spin the wheel, pull the
> handle and the door opens. Now, exactly what
> happens once this takes place? Well, it now allows
> anything that's on the inside to be taken out, and
> ALSO, anything that you wish to put in to be PUT IN.
> Believe it or not, it really is just that simple when you
> are dealing with women. All women have their
> particular "combination", which when PROPERLY
> entered, will allow you to take out whatever you wish
> and put in whatever you wish. It's really just about
> that simple.
One of the reasons I like reading this ng is because you guys come up
with some of the most amazing stuff.
> You COULD look at the combination as the combination
> to the chick's pants zipper.
It's just so much easier in a mini-skirt...
;>
> However, I personally prefer
> to look at it as the combination to the mind itself. Why?
> Because once that door is opened in just the right way,
> you not only have the combination to her pants, but just
> about anything else as well. If you've dialed in the
> combination correctly, and you say, "lets go back to your
> place for some incredible mind-blowing sex!", the chick
> says "ok!" Remember, with an open door, things can be
> put IN as well as taken OUT. In other words, she puts
> out, and you put IN! :) LoL. That was kinda crass.
> But seriously, when you have this condition established,
> you can put any suggestions in (as well as other things) and
> she will GIVE information (and other things) out.
>
> So in summary, the "combination door" metaphor can be
> a very useful way of looking at your interactions with any
> particular woman. Every woman has her particular
> combination which allows her to open to you.
>
> So relating this all back to idea of women testing men,
> you can think of a woman's tests as just one of those
> combination dials on the vault door. It has to be there,
> and it has to be dialed correctly, or the door don't open.
>
> And the fact is, is that women really do WANT to find
> the guy who can dial in her combination correctly.
> Good news is, you CAN be that guy.
Good post. It gets a four star chick
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
NoMoreAFC
jaket...@uswest.net wrote:
> ALPHAHOT1 wrote:
> >
> > Reading through asf, I've noticed recently that there has
> > been a lot of stuff said, and inquired about, as to why
> > women test guys. Well I'm here to give (hopefully) some
> > of the newbies, or anyone else who's interesting, perhaps
> > a better understanding of what this "testing" shit all comes
> > down to these days.
> >
> >
>
>
> Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Into the seduction file it goes!
Jake, you do a good job (as did ALPHAHOT1 in his great post) of
reminding us that complaining does not change the nature of things - we
can only learn, and evolve. This is TRUE Darwinism. The men in ASF are
far ahead of most, at least when it comes to knowledge.
Exactly how you keep your cool with a certain female I'll never know.
You must have more patience than I do. :)
NoMoreAFC
Study... gain knowledge. Practice knowledge... gain results.
1. http://www.seduction.com/news/ (Ross's Newsletters)
2. http://www.ut.ee/~anton/layguide/ (Tony's Lay Guide)
3. http://www.pickupguide.com/ (Maniac High's website)
4. http://www.fastseduction.com/ (Formhandle's resources site)
5. http://www.backlash.com/book/sexism.html (Male-positivity)
Jake Thomson
DO" list in another post. If you notice, "putting up with
bullshit" is conspicuously absent from that list, as is
"getting upset about bullshit." Since I don't HAVE TO put up
with bullshit and I don't HAVE TO get upset about it, that
can look a lot like patience. Although, I admit, at times I
enjoy getting upset with bullshit, so I will.
hth
NoMoreAFC wrote:
>
> In article <39337033...@pop.dnvr.uswest.net>,
> jaket...@uswest.net wrote:
> > ALPHAHOT1 wrote:
> > >
> > > Reading through asf, I've noticed recently that there has
> > > been a lot of stuff said, and inquired about, as to why
> > > women test guys. Well I'm here to give (hopefully) some
> > > of the newbies, or anyone else who's interesting, perhaps
> > > a better understanding of what this "testing" shit all comes
> > > down to these days.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > GREAT REFRAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> > Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> > Into the seduction file it goes!
>
> Jake, you do a good job (as did ALPHAHOT1 in his great post) of
> reminding us that complaining does not change the nature of things - we
> can only learn, and evolve. This is TRUE Darwinism. The men in ASF are
> far ahead of most, at least when it comes to knowledge.
>
> Exactly how you keep your cool with a certain female I'll never know.
> You must have more patience than I do. :)
>
> NoMoreAFC
>
> Study... gain knowledge. Practice knowledge... gain results.
> 1. http://www.seduction.com/news/ (Ross's Newsletters)
> 2. http://www.ut.ee/~anton/layguide/ (Tony's Lay Guide)
> 3. http://www.pickupguide.com/ (Maniac High's website)
> 4. http://www.fastseduction.com/ (Formhandle's resources site)
> 5. http://www.backlash.com/book/sexism.html (Male-positivity)
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
--
ALPHAHOT1
>In article <20000529213157...@ng-ca1.aol.com>,
> alph...@aol.com (ALPHAHOT1) wrote:
>Harboring
>> resentment towards women is like dumping water on a
>> fire. It KILLS your chances. Women can pick up on this
>> more than you probably realize. Yes, you may be able to
>> mask it for a while, but eventually it will show through, and
>> it will make women NOT WANT TO BE AROUND YOU.
>What you're saying is dead right.
>
>And it's extremely important for me, or any girl, to pick up on that
>anger thing fast and get away from the guy as quickly as possible. It's
>the angry guys that will hurt you, beat you up. Smart girls have learned
>this from the inter-chick network. We're vulnerable.
>
>Look, I weigh about 118 lbs and couldn't fight my way out of a wet sack.
>If I'm out with a guy that's nearly twice my size and he flips out I'm
>in serious trouble. It happens. Every girl, within her own circle of
>g-friends, knows at least one girl who has been beaten up by her BF.
:::::::And yet, it is still so amazing how so many women,
many of which who are ones to be considered very
attractive and good looking by society, the "HBs", will
continue to go out with guys who they KNOW will
ultimately, later if not sooner, abuse them. I like to think
that there are still more men who don't beat up
women than there are ones who do. But understandably,
when truly decent guys, and AFCs alike, see this kind
of thing happening, and then see women complaining
about it, it makes them SICK.
>> understand that a woman, especially an HB, is almost
>> FORCED into the position of having to do this. Yes we
>> think it sucks, yes we can get resentful over it, but why?
>> It's because you are looking at her tests in the WRONG
>> way.
>Wow! I'm impressed. Duh! Again, someone in this newsgroup has said
>something that I wished I had said. But like some chicks take this
>testing thing way too far and it can get unfair.
And also, I wish it known that with this post, I am NOT
giving blanket approval to ALL of womens behavior.
I simply realize the inescapable fact that every behavior
seeks to accomplish something at least *perceived* as
useful in some context. I am simply one who has
learned to accept female behavior for what it is, and
that there IS some motivating force behind it that the
woman see's as either necessary or desirable.
For some women, it's necessary to find out just how
much of a man a guy is before she will either commit to
a relationship, or put out. There are also those who
desire to have fun with men merely for fun's sake.
Making promises and implying things that they full well
know they never intend to deliver. When you see men
in this NG who seem to be very bitter about women, it
is usually because of the fact that they HAVE run in to
too many women like this. Or they perhaps just
weren't skilled enough at one point to know, in general,
how to make women desire them. But after all, there
was never a course offered to guys in high school
called 'Women - 101'. I simply thank the forces that be,
that I am just intelligent enough to know that getting
bitter about womens' behavior is NOT going to assist me
in getting what I want from them or being able to give
them what they want.
>You see, most savvy girls know that guys are hunting for pussy.
:::::::True, and along with that, some guys are willing
to give in order to receive. That is what this NG is
really all about. You see, some people in this world
(usually feminazis) contend that men must "trick"
women into giving up their pussy. And to that I say
a very firm and resounding "BULLSHIT." It's a two way
street, this for that, quid pro quo. It's very, very simple.
Women do not have sex with a man unless they want
to have sex with a man. Period.
>Yeah, I think most of it is subconscious. Ya gotta remember guys, it's
>just biology.
:::::::Usually it IS biology. Sometimes it can also be
a matter of malice. But again, is getting bitter about it
going to do a man any good? No. It only hurts him in
the longrun.
Vince Runza
> >don't understand that biology dictates that we're hunting too - and not
> >just for any stiffy that comes along - but the right one. The one guy
> >who fits just right and will stick.
>
> in the process of packing for a cross-country move), but the vision
> that last statement gave me had me ROTFLMAO.
>
> ...something to do with needing cold buckets of water, or the Jaws of
> Life sprang to mind....(BEG).
Often, when we are tired, our minds are free to roam. Nice roam. LOL
Vince
rthroc...@my-deja.com
"Vince Runza" <blub...@bestweb.net> wrote:
> > >You see, most savvy girls know that guys are hunting for pussy.
Guys
> > >don't understand that biology dictates that we're hunting too - and
not
> > >just for any stiffy that comes along - but the right one. The one
guy
> > >who fits just right and will stick.
> >
(I'm
> > in the process of packing for a cross-country move), but the vision
> > that last statement gave me had me ROTFLMAO.
> >
> > ...something to do with needing cold buckets of water, or the Jaws
of
> > Life sprang to mind....(BEG).
>
> Often, when we are tired, our minds are free to roam. Nice roam. LOL
> Vince
Ok - did I say something stupid? Oh! Wait...
opps
rthroc...@my-deja.com
alph...@aol.com (ALPHAHOT1) wrote:
>
> :::::::And yet, it is still so amazing how so many women,
> many of which who are ones to be considered very
> attractive and good looking by society, the "HBs", will
> continue to go out with guys who they KNOW will
> ultimately, later if not sooner, abuse them. I like to think
> that there are still more men who don't beat up
> women than there are ones who do. But understandably,
> when truly decent guys, and AFCs alike, see this kind
> of thing happening, and then see women complaining
> about it, it makes them SICK.
I know - it makes me sick too. I think that some girls think that
they'll be the one that will reform the badboy. "He just needs love..."
One thing that reading this ng has made me realize is that there are
nice guys that get overlooked. It's just that the pushy, bossy guys just
sort of muscle their way in.
> And also, I wish it known that with this post, I am NOT
> giving blanket approval to ALL of womens behavior.
I think you made that pretty clear. I don't think your post was
offensive in any way. In fact, considering some of the shit I KNOW
chicks pull, I thought you were being fair.
> I simply realize the inescapable fact that every behavior
> seeks to accomplish something at least *perceived* as
> useful in some context. I am simply one who has
> learned to accept female behavior for what it is, and
> that there IS some motivating force behind it that the
> woman see's as either necessary or desirable.
> For some women, it's necessary to find out just how
> much of a man a guy is before she will either commit to
> a relationship, or put out. There are also those who
> desire to have fun with men merely for fun's sake.
I have a g-friend that specialized in tormenting guys since high school.
She's like this perfect blond that guys just fall all over. She was
always doing mean things to them. Now she's hooked up with this guy that
just never takes any shit off her at all. He's not mean or anything - he
just reads her and lays down the rules - no bullshit! Maybe that was
what she was looking for all the time.
> Making promises and implying things that they full well
> know they never intend to deliver. When you see men
> in this NG who seem to be very bitter about women, it
> is usually because of the fact that they HAVE run in to
> too many women like this. Or they perhaps just
> weren't skilled enough at one point to know, in general,
> how to make women desire them. But after all, there
> was never a course offered to guys in high school
> called 'Women - 101'. I simply thank the forces that be,
> that I am just intelligent enough to know that getting
> bitter about womens' behavior is NOT going to assist me
> in getting what I want from them or being able to give
> them what they want.
There's no course in Men 101 either. Nobody teaches us this stuff - we
just have to learn
Vince Runza
> > >
> (I'm
> > > in the process of packing for a cross-country move), but the vision
> > > that last statement gave me had me ROTFLMAO.
> > >
> > > ...something to do with needing cold buckets of water, or the Jaws
> of
> > > Life sprang to mind....(BEG).
> >
> > Often, when we are tired, our minds are free to roam. Nice roam. LOL
> > Vince
>
> Ok - did I say something stupid? Oh! Wait...
>
> opps
Arf!
Vince
DC Newbie
mind/pussy as combination lock" but I saw rthrockmorton's reply and
must strongly endorse her "4-star post!" rating.
I have another analogy to offer my fellow guys. You know how you can
walk into a retail store and almost immediately get hounded by salesmen
who are after nothing but your money? Sometimes they even use NLP
techniques to get that sale. I find it annoying as hell. Well, I
always think of beautiful women as being in the same boat when it comes
to horndog guys.
Just as I have learned to sniff out and give the stop sign to
aggressive salesmen, I figure that most attractive women have become
accustomed to detecting male come-ons and putting up what we ASF'ers
refer to as their "bitch shield." I don't blame them for it, that's
just life.
Personally, living in D.C., I am occasionally hit on by gay guys (I am
WAY straight), so I know exactly what it feels like to be a "target,"
to have some horny guy thinking about me as a piece of flesh to put his
dick in. Once, I even went out to dinner with this dude and ended up
with him on his couch before I realized, "Shit, I'm on a date!" Boy,
it hard to squirm out of his apartment once I was already there.
That experience had a profound effect on my behavior around women --
unfortunately, to an excessive level which for a long time prevented me
from openly exhibiting any romantic interest in the women I met. I
didn't want to be seen as a threat, another horndog, thus I kept ending
up in LJBF Land. Thank god I discovered this NG and finally started
turning my life around.
Anyway, I don't know why, but I just felt like sharing that little
story with you. On with the sarging...
D.C. Newbie
Laife
Don't be afraid of women. Be with them ... be in their mind. Enjoy it
together.
DC Newbie wrote:
--
Laife
rthroc...@my-deja.com
DC Newbie <f...@bar.com> wrote:
> My newsfeed sucks so I missed alphahot1's original post about "Women's
> mind/pussy as combination lock" but I saw rthrockmorton's reply and
> must strongly endorse her "4-star post!" rating.
Thank you...
> I have another analogy to offer my fellow guys. You know how you can
> walk into a retail store and almost immediately get hounded by
salesmen
> who are after nothing but your money? Sometimes they even use NLP
> techniques to get that sale. I find it annoying as hell. Well, I
> always think of beautiful women as being in the same boat when it
comes
> to horndog guys.
>
> Just as I have learned to sniff out and give the stop sign to
> aggressive salesmen, I figure that most attractive women have become
> accustomed to detecting male come-ons and putting up what we ASF'ers
> refer to as their "bitch shield." I don't blame them for it, that's
> just life.
"Bitch shield" is a little harsh perhaps - esp. if you go out of your
way not to be a bitch. But it's absolutely true that SOME women I know
actually pride themselves on their ability to go from 0 to bitch in 30
seconds. (I don't.)
But an example of what you are saying happened to me a month ago - I was
shopping in a mall and this guy comes up to me out of no-where and
starts with the "hey-baby" routine. I just wasn't in the mood, and the
guy was creepy - but I tried to be nice and said "no thanks" and started
to walk away. The guy started following me, close! So I go into this one
place to try and shake him and he just starts up again. Now he was way
more persistent and even more creepy - so I just went off - I yelled for
mall security and screamed "get away from me."
Essentially, I had to stage a huge scene...
He ran off. But it was very upsetting. And I was so totally freaked out
that a security guard walked out with me to my car.
One of my g-friends wears her grandmothers wedding ring when she goes
shopping. And sometimes I dress down - baggy jeans and sweatshirt, no
make-up - total slob effect. It sucks having to think about it.
On the other side - there are cool guys who let you know they think
you're hot without violating your space and I don't mind that at all. As
long as they aren't vulgar.
This huge black guy came into the store one day and I could tell he was
not finding what he was looking for so I walked up to him and asked if I
could help him and he gave me this huge smile and made eye contact - and
said "you sure could" - then - "MoTown." I said "one of my favorites"
and we had a cool exchange - entirely about music. He didn't push
anything - just let me know he was grooving on me. I felt totally at
ease.
I like to flirt and be flirted with. But I find that younger guys, guys
my own age, just aren't very smooth. Older guys especially, can be cool
without expecting you to pull your skirt up on the spot.
Maybe some of the guys in this ng need to learn how to flirt without any
expectations.
I think the biggest turn-off in the world is a guy that comes off as
desperate.
> Personally, living in D.C., I am occasionally hit on by gay guys (I am
> WAY straight), so I know exactly what it feels like to be a "target,"
> to have some horny guy thinking about me as a piece of flesh to put
his
> dick in. Once, I even went out to dinner with this dude and ended up
> with him on his couch before I realized, "Shit, I'm on a date!" Boy,
> it hard to squirm out of his apartment once I was already there.
So you understand. Another big turn off - the guy who isn't interested
in anything but sex. You learn to smell it and you just do the quick
get-away.
> That experience had a profound effect on my behavior around women --
> unfortunately, to an excessive level which for a long time prevented
me
> from openly exhibiting any romantic interest in the women I met. I
> didn't want to be seen as a threat, another horndog, thus I kept
ending
> up in LJBF Land. Thank god I discovered this NG and finally started
> turning my life around.
I stumbled in here by accident - a post was cross-posted to alt.romance.
It is an interesting group, esp. because I don't ever intend to be the
meat-puppet for a "fast" seduction. (No offense intended.) Drive too
fast, you miss the scenery. Slow is best.
>
> Anyway, I don't know why, but I just felt like sharing that little
> story with you. On with the sarging...
>
> D.C. Newbie
I think sharing ideas is
NoMoreAFC
rthroc...@my-deja.com wrote:
<snip>
> Maybe some of the guys in this ng need to learn how to flirt without
any
> expectations.
It depends on what you mean by, "without any expectations". If you mean
a man being cool and not desperate, yes. I *hope* you are not referring
to a woman giving out 'fake' signals, feigning interest. Just as women
don't like desperate behavior by men, men don't like it when they think
they are getting somewhere with a woman when they are really not. We
have enough trouble discerning signals without something like this.
For the record, I don't think that is what you meant. However, I DO know
women who like to make a game of such, and it is quite unfair to decent
men. The 'flirt game' is one that favors women, generally.
<snip>
> It is an interesting group, esp. because I don't ever intend to be the
> meat-puppet for a "fast" seduction. (No offense intended.) Drive too
> fast, you miss the scenery. Slow is best.
<snip>
I think that one of the main things men learn here is how to create
*attraction* - to make it clear that they are interested in more than
friendship. How quickly one 'moves' is up to the individuals. The point
is, even if you don't go to bed right away, there must be some
chemistry, otherwise things end up in friendship land.
It is said that a woman makes up her mind very early when meeting a man
regarding whether or not she sees him as a potential mate. It is
critical for a man to make himself sexually attractive to a woman as
early as he can. My opinion is that *this* is the most important part of
the 'Speed' in Speed Seduction. Whether or not you "get a woman into bed
in 20 minutes" or not is irrelevant. But, making her *see you as a
potential sexual partner* in the first 20 minutes (probably more like
the first *5* minutes), and then having the *choice* to do so, IS
crucial. Call it Speed Attraction, perhaps.
Sorry, Ross. Just a thought. :)
There's nothing wrong with friendship, mind you. However, many men have
had more than their share of female friends. They get LJBFed long before
they know it. They really don't understand how things work. So, they end
up chasing something that does not exist. The women know, but the men
are usually slow to catch on. Instead of moving on and cutting their
losses, they hang around and hope for miracles. By definition, miracles
are very rare.
Lessons to learn:
1. Create attraction early. Be confident, not desperate.
2. If you fail to create enough attraction (or, if she is just not
receptive), and you feel a LJBF coming on, you may have to exit totally,
or accept a friendship. The main point here is, do NOT hang around in a
friendship hoping for more. Discern *early on* which way things are
heading, and act accordingly.
3. A man cannot afford to concentrate on just one woman. It's too much
of a gamble. Most men lose with this strategy. For every 'fairy tale'
that you hear of coming true, there are untold legions of those that did
not.
If men were to do nothing more than follow lesson No. 2, I'm certain it
would benefit both sexes.
NoMoreAFC
Study... gain knowledge. Practice knowledge... gain results.
1. http://www.seduction.com/news/ (Ross's Newsletters)
2. http://juridica.ut.ee/~anton/layguide/ (Tony's Lay Guide)
3. http://www.pickupguide.com/ (Maniac High's website)
4. http://www.fastseduction.com/ (Formhandle's resources site)
5. http://www.backlash.com/book/sexism.html (Male-positivity)
Wise_...@hotmail.com
NoMoreAFC <NoMo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> In article <8hg973$ut4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
>
> 3. A man cannot afford to concentrate on just one woman. It's too much
> of a gamble. Most men lose with this strategy. For every 'fairy tale'
> that you hear of coming true, there are untold legions of those that
did
> not.
>
Sorry, had to chime in on this one. If your goal is sex alone, this is
probably an effective strategy. If your goal is to find a long term
relationship, however, it may work against you.
Consider this analogy: You are an athlete and you want to win a gold
medal. Do you try to excel at every sport hoping against hope that you
will get lucky, or do you concentrate your time, effort and skill on
obtaining excellence at just one sport? Maybe that's a bad example,
but hey, it's Monday... lol
What I mean is, if you as a man say to me "I want to date you, but I
also want to date other women because you might not be the one I want",
it's going to send me a pretty clear signal - that you are 'shopping'
and not ready to buy. I'm going to be very hesitant about giving you
the best of myself, because you've told me right up front that it might
be in vain - why would I want to open my heart and soul to someone who
obviously isn't wholeheartedly interested in pursuing 'us' potential..?
As a woman, I still might go to bed with you (I personally wouldn't if I
knew you were sleeping with other women - I'm a 'one at a time' kind of
girl and prefer that in my men), but I'm probably not going to be very
tender or loving or vulnerable or intimate with you, because if you are
having sex with other women, in my little chyck brain it means you do
not *love* me and why would I give the very best I have to offer to
someone who (in my mind) probably won't value the gift?
By focusing on multiple women at once, you may get laid a lot - and
you might get obsessed over, and have your ego stroked - but I can
almost guarantee you, you won't be finding a lot of love. Which is OK
for those of you who aren't necessarily interested in LTR - but it would
be sad to think that you missed out on something deep and abiding
because you were afraid to risk a "one at a time" relationship model.
After all, it doesn't take YEARS to rule someone out as 'forever and
always' (in my experience, it takes about two months - long enough for
the Disney chemicals to begin to wear off and for some reality to seep
in).
Some things are just "worth the risk" in my book - and love is right at
the top of the list. If you don't believe me, just ask Jack and
Jeri... :-)
-J
Chris Odom
(as outlined below) is proven wrong? Jack operated on the techniques
discussed in this newsgroup, and he certainly didn't focus his efforts on
any single woman. But when the right one came along, he committed to her.
Most guys have a problem where they want to know how they can get "this
one special girl..." and usually that frame leads them to failure in
general, in their romantic and sex life. The first thing they need to do
when they get to this forum is learn how to break out of that unproductive
frame and move towards something more useful.
Wise_...@hotmail.com
<Pine.NEB.3.96.100060...@shell-1.enteract.com>,
Chris Odom <ch...@enteract.com> wrote:
> You mentioned Jack and Jeri...wouldn't they be a case where your
theory
> (as outlined below) is proven wrong? Jack operated on the techniques
> discussed in this newsgroup, and he certainly didn't focus his efforts
on
> any single woman. But when the right one came along, he committed to
her.
Well I'm the first to admit that I wasn't a fly on the wall for that
relationship and I have no idea what the dynamics were except for what
was discussed here - but it sounded to me as though Jack stopped dating
other women once he and Jeri started dating. Of course I could be
entirely wrong, but Jeri didn't strike me as the type who would have
cared for sharing Jack with other women once it became clear to her that
he was the one she wanted (and I found no evidence in his posts to
indicate that Jack did continue to date other women once he and Jeri got
together). Obviously it was imprudent of me to quote from a
relationship when all I saw of it was the happy ending - I apologize,
and suggest that perhaps the happy couple might themselves offer comment
on this subject if they are so disposed.
I'm not saying that "dating" isn't a good idea - you do have to
determine what is available and make choices based on that. All I'm
saying is that once you have determined that you have a very likely
candidate for LTR on your hands, it might not be in your best interests
to "keep shopping". If the wonderful man I married had at any point
said to me "well you are pretty terrific, but I'm going to keep looking
in case there is someone better out there" (or implied it through his
actions), you can bet he would not have become my husband... :-)
Just trying to offer a perspective from this side of the fence, not
a "you're wrong I'm right" thing... take it for what it's worth. :-)
-J
Wise_...@hotmail.com
bes...@triton.dnai.com (Tim Bessie) wrote:
>
> I don't know if that's the issue here -- for one, because how many
> men would state that up front, and for another because the underlying
> reason for seeing multiple women (for me, at least) is to give me
> the luxury of perspective when I _do_ meet someone I think I might
> want to make more of a committment to. If I meet woman X when I'm
> not dating anyone else, and see her for the Perfect Woman she is,
> I may very well find it extremely difficult not to devote a pile
> of energy to her quite soon into the relationship.
>
> However, if I'm dating several women, I'm more likely to be able
> to see her in a more realistic light, and also more likely to be able
> to take my time in getting to know her, and thus not appear desperate.
>
> And, in the meantime, I'm still able to have the physical intimacy
> that I desire in my life (i.e. I'm not denying myself those pleasures
> simply because I haven't found Ms. Right yet).
That's all very valid thinking from a *male* perspective, Tim. I'm just
trying to offer a perspective from waaay over here... <wink>
If you were dating several women and you met one that stood out from the
herd - one that you might want to 'take your time getting to know' and
perhaps pursue a LTR with - and you let that one woman know that you
were dating and fucking several *other* women, what do you think your
chances would be that said "good LTR prospect" would a) let you fuck her
while you were still sleeping around with other babes, and b) allow
herself to really open up to you, because she perceived herself as just
one more pair of tits you were trying on for size? Do you not value in
a LTR partner a strong sense of self-worth and discrimination..?
Naturally, I can't speak for all women. And perhaps, as a woman in her
30's who has learned to value depth in all her relationships, I bring a
perspective that differs from that of the sort of women the men in this
group are seeking. At this point in my life, I'm really only interested
in relationships with LTR potential, so I speak from that point of view
- guess you have to keep that in mind when reading any of my opinions.
Wise_...@hotmail.com
bes...@triton.dnai.com (Tim Bessie) wrote:
> Although most times in my life I've been absolutely, 100% honest about
> everything that was going on in my life, I've recently started
thinking
> that it would be the most productive to not mention any outside
activities
> until things had progressed with someone to the point where I wanted
to
> get yet closer to them, or where they stated their relationship
expectations
> outright, or asked me directly if I were seeing others. This, despite
my
> knowledge that most women seem to have the expectation that, if you're
> sleeping them, you're not sleeping with anyone else.
Well, it's maybe not entirely *realistic*, but yes - I think most women
assume (yeah, yeah, ass-u-me, blah blah) that if a man is sleeping with
us, he is sleeping with ONLY us. Maybe outside of the world of the
PUA, this is an entirely valid assumption... LOL
>
> Given the potential danger of sleeping around these days, I've
> always thought it the most responsible, of course, to do some version
> of "Wait! Before we have sex, I must tell you: I'm sleeping with
others."
> (either way before or right before the act itself).
>
> But...
>
> Lately I've found myself tending more towards the school of thought
that
> says that "A woman is an adult. She is responsible for taking care of
> herself. If she's worried about me sleeping with others, she should
not
> expect that I'm NOT sleeping with others, and thus should ask me."
I'm not going to put myself or any other woman in the 'victim' role by
saying that this approach is unfair or unethical - yes, you are right,
we need to take responsibility for our own safety, own own health, and
our own emotional well being, and if that means we have to develop a
whole new checklist of questions to ask before we let you lay a hand on
us, I guess that's what it means... (sad, that things have come to
this).
>
> Is it despicable for a man NOT to mention it, if the woman doesn't?
> After all, I don't ask HER if SHE'S sleeping with others (I expect it,
> in fact). Of course, that's just a man's viewpoint. ;-)
So what if you're some herpes infested creepola (like someone I could
mention) - do you mention that or is it my responsibility to ferret out
the info? What if one of your other girlfriends has herpes, but you
feel comfortable risking your health by using a condom - do you mention
this to me so I can make an informed decision, or am I on my own?
Again, you are right, it's my responsibility to protect my own health,
but it's not comfortable to look your newly beloved partner in the eyes
and say "are you sleeping with any herpes ridden HIV infected crack
whores that I should know about?"
> The decision to practice fidelity would be a joint decision, not an
> expectation. Do you think that is not fair?
I think that is entirely fair. In my own case, exclusivity is a
condition of having sex with me - if you aren't ready for that, fine,
but it's non-negotiable. I've noticed in this newsgroup, however, that
the men here see that sort of attitude as a "power play" by women, as
opposed to a protective mechanism. Being picky about who I have sex
with (either directly or by "default") does not make me a prude or a
bitch - as you noted above, I have a responsibility for my own health
and well being, and in spite of an almost universal belief to the
contrary, condoms are *not* a fool-proof barrier against anything.
>
> I value in a LTR partner a sense of self-worth and discrimination,
> of course. And also the values that allow her to not tie her
self-worth
> or choice of lovers, or definition of a relationship, to her lovers'
> sexual fidelity. I believe a person in a LTR should practice
emotional
> fidelity, for sure, but sexual fidelity is not nearly as important to
me.
That's because you are a man. Women primarily enjoy sex on an
*emotional* level, and fidelity is generally *very* important. If you
doubt this, take your own straw poll - ask 20 women you know if they
would mind it if their lover had other lovers, with or without their
knowledge. :-)
rthroc...@my-deja.com
Wise_...@hotmail.com wrote:
> In article <8hgta9$cot$1...@triton.dnai.com>,
in
> a LTR partner a strong sense of self-worth and discrimination..?
>
> Naturally, I can't speak for all women. And perhaps, as a woman in
her
> 30's who has learned to value depth in all her relationships, I bring
a
> perspective that differs from that of the sort of women the men in
this
> group are seeking. At this point in my life, I'm really only
interested
> in relationships with LTR potential, so I speak from that point of
view
> - guess you have to keep that in mind when reading any of my opinions.
> :-)
>
> -J
I entirely agree with you (and I'm 22.) I meet guys that I can tell want
only one thing - sex. But I've begun to think of what I really want. And
it's not a one-night stand or to stand in line for a guy who's just
sampling. If the guy's sleeping around -
Wise_...@hotmail.com
bes...@triton.dnai.com (Tim Bessie) wrote:
> I've known plenty of men who have had multiple (temporary) partners
who
> did not consider themselves pick-up artists, or make a big deal of it.
> So it seems more common to me than it appears you think it is.
Perhaps in my case, ignorance has been bliss... lol
> Very true. I don't think of the expectation of fidelity as being a
> "power play." However, I _do_ look at it as an expectation that's
> made without consulting me. If a woman wants that, she ought to tell
> me. If she doesn't, I'll do what I want to do when she's not around.
I am always very up front about this expectation (well, at the first
sign of impending intimacy) - I don't just spring it on men at a
crucial moment, or assume that they 'should know' what my boundaries
are. Common courtesy dictates that the rules (if any) should be
clearly defined by both parties right up front - saves a lot of
heartache and disappointment later on. <geez, that sounds so
*clinical*... lol>
> Also, I never said you were a prude or a bitch. If a woman doesn't
want
> to have sex with me, for whatever reason, I don't call her a prude or
a bitch.
> I just say "Oh well, too bad. I wish she _did_, though" and go on.
> Namecalling's useless.
I didn't mean you specifically, Tim. :-)
> >That's because you are a man. Women primarily enjoy sex on an
> >*emotional* level, and fidelity is generally *very* important. If
you
> >doubt this, take your own straw poll - ask 20 women you know if they
> >would mind it if their lover had other lovers, with or without their
> >knowledge. :-)
>
> My dear friend, _I_ primarily enjoy sex on an emotional level as well.
> Walk a mile in his moccasins, and all that. ;-)
That's what I get for generalizing... lol Ah well, pass the salt and
I'll chow down on some crow.
>
> Yet, _despite_ the deep emotional connections I have had with women,
> despite the soul-wrenching closeness I have felt with some women
during
> sex, and the resultant bonds it has formed between us, I _persist_ in
> wanting to sleep with other women as well. A couple of the most
amazing,
> highly intelligent, highly sexually pleasing women I've ever met
dumped me
> because I honestly said, from the beginning, that I was going to be
seeing
> other women. At first they said, "Okay, let's see where it goes."
But,
> eventually, they decided they didn't want that. I'm willing to take
the
> negative consequences of my decisions, willing to accept the awful
pain
> I've felt in this situations, because I _know_ I won't be satisfied
feeling
> like I'm not able to pursue whatever woman I want. This may change
sometime
> in the future, when I no longer have the energy to do it, or when I
feel
> I'd get that much more from being monogamous. But, for now, I don't
want it.
I respect your position on this. My only desire was to point out what
you yourself note above - that most women don't do well "sharing". If
your goal is an endless variety of experience, then multiple sex
partnering will probably meet your objectives. If your goal is LTR
with one special woman, unless you are extremely lucky, serial monogamy
will be more effective in the long run.
>
> AND... I would not complain if a woman I was seeing was sleeping with
> other men. I might feel a little tugging of discomfort at times, but
I
> have to accept in my partner what I want for myself.
>
Would this be as true for you if you 'loved' the woman in question? I
suppose the whole point of my dialogue in this thread was to point out
that there might be an intrinsic difference in approach if one was
actively seeking a LTR.
-J
Jack
>
> Some things are just "worth the risk" in my book - and love is right
> at the top of the list. If you don't believe me, just ask Jack and
> Jeri... :-)
>
>
LOL... There wasn't any risk involved in our relationship, but giving up
the PUA lifestyle wasn't really difficult, knowing that I had the one
woman that could supercede all previous iterations.
Thanks for the sentiment.
--
John C. Ryan, Jr., M.Ed.
<----------<< =+= >>---------->
Sources for Basic Information
(IOW, Do your own homework)
http://www.pickupguide.com - Maniac High
http://www.ut.ee/~anton/layguide/ - Tony's Layguide
http://www.seduction.com - Ross Jeffries
http://www.fastseduction.com - Formhandle
http://members.home.net/odious - Odious
-----------
Read these sites, and then you can ask your question
If you aren't prepared to accept the answer, don't ask
=+=
(To reply to me, reverse "oohay")
Jack
>
>
> Well I'm the first to admit that I wasn't a fly on the wall for that
> relationship and I have no idea what the dynamics were except for
> what was discussed here - but it sounded to me as though Jack stopped
> dating other women once he and Jeri started dating. Of course I
> could be entirely wrong, but Jeri didn't strike me as the type who
> would have cared for sharing Jack with other women once it became
> clear to her that he was the one she wanted (and I found no evidence
> in his posts to indicate that Jack did continue to date other women
> once he and Jeri got together).
>
Not necessarily. The fact of the matter was, I was involved with 3 other
gals, and she was fully aware of this fact. I only stopped these
involvements after she and I had been together for quite a few weeks. In
fact, it was the day after Jeri proposed that I was able to contact the
last of the three, to tell her that I was no longer available.
Of course, Jeri knew about all of this, and discussed it with me over
dinner one evening... You can ask Vince for the gory details... LOL
>
> Obviously it was imprudent of me to quote from a relationship when
> all I saw of it was the happy ending - I apologize, and suggest that
> perhaps the happy couple might themselves offer comment on this
> subject if they are so disposed.
>
Not necessary to apologize, as we have been away...
It's interesting to me, (Mr. Ryan) at least, to see how Mrs. Ryan is
being analyzed here. Her idea of all of this was that I was the one she
wanted, and she was prepared to wait for me to decide if I would accept
having only her. I recall her once telling me something along the lines
of: I understand that you are seeing others, and that's okay. I am happy
for whatever time I can have with you. (Or something to that effect.)
>
> Just trying to offer a perspective from this side of the fence, not
> a "you're wrong I'm right" thing... take it for what it's worth. :-)
>
> -J
My comments are not intended to belie yours, they are merely a single
case. It is in fact greatly refreshing to me to see a feminine
perspective here.