Picking Up Exotic Dancers, Final Thoughts
ex-d...@no-email.com
amoral or immoral, one thing I think is important to remember: these clubs are
selling a fantasy. And some people, apparently, can't tell fantasy from reality
and inevitably end up getting burned.
These clubs are no test of a man's "pick-up" skills. And stories of amazing
success should probably be examined closely. Like I said before, the club girls
are on their guard and have all their defensive shields running. And if you want
to meet a group of ladies who have heard every single known pick-up line in the
book - talk to an off-duty dancer. Trust me honey, we've heard them all!
As Mr. Bailey has pointed out, some of the girls who work these clubs,
especially the career "strippers" can become pretty jaded. Many of them have
been sadly misused by men in the past and look at the clients as jerks anyway.
This is especially typical of the low-end neighborhood strip bars which are the
end destination of girls whose looks and figures start to go and who stay in the
scene too long. Often their next stop is usually working the street.
In the high-end clubs in places like Vegas, Atlantic City, and Miami, many of
the girls are students who have short term economic goals and are really not
available to the patrons at all. The better clubs have, at the very minimum,
guidlines on fraternization and most girls will not risk a good paying job just
to go out with a customer. It (usually) isn't worth it. Boyfriends are easy
enough to find outside the club.
Lastly, I think the club life encourages a subtle and understated kind of mutual
contempt. The patrons quite often view the girls as little more than whores, and
the girls often end up feeling a little (and sometimes a lot) of contempt for
the patrons as well.
That is really all I have to say on the subject. Let the discerning reader
decide for himself. It is four years since I worked the club scene and I doubt
very seriously that anything has changed.
A Modern Caveman
>amoral or immoral, one thing I think is important to remember: these clubs
>are
>selling a fantasy. And some people, apparently, can't tell fantasy from
>reality
>and inevitably end up getting burned.
And some men CAN tell that it's not all fantasy and wind up getting LAID. I'd
explain HOW but that's reserved for "Stripper Gold."
>These clubs are no test of a man's "pick-up" skills.
Oh, but they ARE!
>And stories of amazing
>success should probably be examined closely.
So should stories of women who swear that stuff "won't work" when men know that
it WILL WORK.
>Like I said before, the club
>girls
>are on their guard and have all their defensive shields running.
I'd explain the weakness of this but that would cause me to release part of
"Stripper Gold."
So far everything you cite as a disadvantage when it comes to strip clubs, I
find to be an advantage.
>And if you
>want
>to meet a group of ladies who have heard every single known pick-up line in
>the
>book - talk to an off-duty dancer.
Hardly. A good pickup line is one that "slips under her radar." Still, the
woman who swears she can't be conned won't admit it when she is.
>Trust me honey, we've heard them all!
Trust ME, you haven't. Further, a "Stripper Gold" seducer doesn't have to rely
on pickup lines, as the club environment is totally biased against the dancer.
If every man knew what I know about strippers, they'd be out of business.
>As Mr. Bailey has pointed out, some of the girls who work these clubs,
>especially the career "strippers" can become pretty jaded. Many of them have
>been sadly misused by men in the past and look at the clients as jerks
>anyway.
And secretaries don't?
>This is especially typical of the low-end neighborhood strip bars which are
>the
>end destination of girls whose looks and figures start to go and who stay in
>the
>scene too long. Often their next stop is usually working the street.
Or marrying a rich guy, or taking a corporate eye-candy job.
As for the "high end" clubs, don't go thinking you are all that. There are
REAL DANCERS who don't even have to strip who are superior to the "high end"
strippers (who aren't much different from the "low end" strippers except for
the clubs they work at).
>In the high-end clubs in places like Vegas, Atlantic City, and Miami, many of
>the girls are students who have short term economic goals and are really not
>available to the patrons at all.
Until they decide they are.
>The better clubs have, at the very minimum,
>guidlines on fraternization and most girls will not risk a good paying job
>just
>to go out with a customer.
Which again means nothing.
Also, those "high end" clubs tend to be MOB owned, and the way to get the
dancers there is to just go through the staff (or BECOME the staff), but that's
simple.
>It (usually) isn't worth it. Boyfriends are easy
>enough to find outside the club.
You make them sound interchangeable. Far cry from a "soulmate."
Still, you're overlooking a critical problem that comes with the "high end"
clubs. Remember your friend Chora? She didn't seem to high-quality. How'd
she wind up again?
>Lastly, I think the club life encourages a subtle and understated kind of
>mutual
>contempt.
>The patrons quite often view the girls as little more than whores,
Accurately.
>and
>the girls often end up feeling a little (and sometimes a lot) of contempt for
>the patrons as well.
And what can they DO about this contempt?
>That is really all I have to say on the subject. Let the discerning reader
>decide for himself. It is four years since I worked the club scene and I
>doubt
>very seriously that anything has changed.
You are one ex-dancer.
Actually, a great deal has changed in four years. Try dancing again and you'll
see that almost immediately.
Ray Gordon: BACK by popular demand!
Limited time only!
Everything you need to know about women. FREE!
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html
Paul Robinson
> >Whether you believe that "strip clubs" and the girls who work in them, are
> >amoral or immoral, one thing I think is important to remember: these clubs
> >are
> >selling a fantasy. And some people, apparently, can't tell fantasy from
> >reality
> >and inevitably end up getting burned.
>
> And some men CAN tell that it's not all fantasy and wind up getting LAID. I'd
> explain HOW but that's reserved for "Stripper Gold."
Which you did not, do not, and never will have any intention of telling us, and in
all probability do not have any alleged "stripper gold" system, but simply made up
the name in an attempt to taunt people about a so-called system that most likely
does not work.
> >These clubs are no test of a man's "pick-up" skills.
> Oh, but they ARE!
So you say. By the way, over the past ten days, how many women have you picked up
and had vaginal intercourse with, or how many times have you had vaginal
intercourse as a result of using your system in the past ten days? You claim it
works, so as a result of using it, either how many women have you banged or how
many times have you banged one or more women in the last ten days?
> >And stories of amazing success should
> >probably be examined closely.
>
> So should stories of women who swear that stuff "won't work" when men know that
> it WILL WORK.
You claim the alleged system "stripper gold" works, so as a result of using it,
tell us all now either how many women have you banged or how many times have you
banged one or more women in the last ten days?
> >Like I said before, the club girls are on their guard and have all
> >their defensive shields running.
>
> I'd explain the weakness of this but that would cause me to release part of
> "Stripper Gold."
Because there is no way you can say anything without admitting you have no system,
it is a complete fantasy, a creation of whole cloth. Otherwise, you claim the
alleged system "stripper gold" works, so as a result of using it, tell us all now
either how many women with whom have you have had vaginal intercourse or how many
times have you had vaginal intercourse with one or more women in the last ten days?
> So far everything you cite as a disadvantage when it comes to strip
> clubs, I find to be an advantage.
So tell us, just how much of an advantage did it give you? You claim the alleged
system "stripper gold" works, so as a result of using it, tell us all now either
how many women with whom have you have had vaginal intercourse or how many times
have you had vaginal intercourse with one or more women in the last ten days?
> >And if you want to meet a group of ladies who have
> >heard every single known pick-up line in the
> >book - talk to an off-duty dancer.
>
> Hardly. A good pickup line is one that "slips under her radar." Still, the
> woman who swears she can't be conned won't admit it when she is.
So how many women have you conned into their panties, or how many times have you
conned them? You claim the alleged system "stripper gold" works, so as a result of
using it, tell us all now either how many women with whom have you have had vaginal
intercourse or how many times have you had vaginal intercourse with one or more
women in the last ten days?
> >Trust me honey, we've heard them all!
>
> Trust ME, you haven't. Further, a "Stripper Gold" seducer doesn't have to rely
> on pickup lines, as the club environment is totally biased against the dancer.
So based upon this 'biased environment' how much success have you had with women?
You claim the alleged system "stripper gold" works, so as a result of using it,
tell us all now either how many women with whom have you have had vaginal
intercourse or how many times have you had vaginal intercourse with one or more
women in the last ten days?
> If every man knew what I know about strippers, they'd be out of business.
So give us some information to show us how they would be driven out of business,
and we'll start with something really simple, that I'd like to ask, and you can
guess the question: Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist
Party? Oh wait, wrong question. You claim the alleged system "stripper gold"
works, so as a result of using it, tell us all now either how many women with whom
have you have had vaginal intercourse or how many times have you had vaginal
intercourse with one or more women in the last ten days?
> >As Mr. Bailey has pointed out, some of the girls who work these clubs,
> >especially the career "strippers" can become pretty jaded. Many of them have
> >been sadly misused by men in the past and look at the clients as jerks
> >anyway.
>
> And secretaries don't?
Some might, most probably don't as I suspect secretaries are not 'hit on' ten times
a day at work. Oh, and speaking of work, I have a question regarding hitting on
strippers who are working that you might be able to answer. You claim the alleged
system "stripper gold" works, so as a result of using it, tell us all now either
how many women with whom have you have had vaginal intercourse or how many times
have you had vaginal intercourse with one or more women in the last ten days?
> >This is especially typical of the low-end neighborhood strip bars which are
> >the end destination of girls whose looks and figures start to go and who stay in
>
> >the scene too long. Often their next stop is usually working the street.
>
> Or marrying a rich guy, or taking a corporate eye-candy job.
Hmmm, corporate eye candy job. Might that include working in a strip bar? I have
a question since I understand you know something about seducing strippers, or claim
to do so... You claim the alleged system "stripper gold" works, so as a result of
using it, tell us all now either how many women with whom have you have had vaginal
intercourse or how many times have you had vaginal intercourse with one or more
women in the last ten days?
> As for the "high end" clubs, don't go thinking you are all that. There are
> REAL DANCERS who don't even have to strip who are superior to the "high end"
> strippers (who aren't much different from the "low end" strippers except for
> the clubs they work at).
Well, I'm kind of curious since you seem to know (or claim to know) something about
strippers in clubs. You claim the alleged system "stripper gold" works, so as a
result of using it, tell us all now either how many women with whom have you have
had vaginal intercourse or how many times have you had vaginal intercourse with one
or more women in the last ten days?
> >In the high-end clubs in places like Vegas, Atlantic City, and Miami, many of
> >the girls are students who have short term economic goals and are really not
> >available to the patrons at all.
>
> Until they decide they are.
I have a question. Maybe you know of some women who work in a strip club who have
decided they are available to the patrons. You claim the alleged system "stripper
gold" works, so as a result of using it, tell us all now either how many women with
whom have you have had vaginal intercourse or how many times have you had vaginal
intercourse with one or more women in the last ten days?
> >The better clubs have, at the very minimum, guidlines on
> >fraternization and most girls will not risk a good paying job just
> >to go out with a customer.
>
> Which again means nothing.
Speaking of nothing, there is a thing I claim doesn't exist and someone else says
does. Maybe you know about it. The thing I claim doesn't exist is called
"stripper gold" an alleged system that supposedly allows a man to seduce strippers
into having sex with him. I've heard from hearsay evidence that you know something
about it and would know it works by testing it out to confirm that. So I'd like to
find out from someone who does. You claim the alleged system "stripper gold" works,
so as a result of using it, tell us all now either how many women with whom have
you have had vaginal intercourse or how many times have you had vaginal intercourse
with one or more women in the last ten days?
> Also, those "high end" clubs tend to be MOB owned, and the way to get the
> dancers there is to just go through the staff (or BECOME the staff), but that's
> simple.
So I'm interested in knowing how many of this MOB of women did you happen to sleep
with. You claim the alleged system "stripper gold" works, so as a result of using
it, tell us all now either how many women with whom have you have had vaginal
intercourse or how many times have you had vaginal intercourse with one or more
women in the last ten days?
> >It (usually) isn't worth it. Boyfriends are easy
> >enough to find outside the club.
>
> You make them sound interchangeable. Far cry from a "soulmate."
Well, speaking of interchangeable, I'm curious if you found any women with which to
interchange. You claim the alleged system "stripper gold" works, so as a result of
using it, tell us all now either how many women with whom have you have had vaginal
intercourse or how many times have you had vaginal intercourse with one or more
women in the last ten days?
> Still, you're overlooking a critical problem that comes with the "high end"
> clubs. Remember your friend Chora? She didn't seem to high-quality. How'd
> she wind up again?
I would like to know if there were some women you might have wound up with. You
claim the alleged system "stripper gold" works, so as a result of using it, tell us
all now either how many women with whom have you have had vaginal intercourse or
how many times have you had vaginal intercourse with one or more women in the last
ten days?
> >Lastly, I think the club life encourages a subtle and understated kind of
> >mutual contempt. The patrons quite often view the girls as little more than
> whores,
>
> Accurately.
So I'm kind of curious if you were involved in any of these 'little more than
whores.' You claim the alleged system "stripper gold" works, so as a result of
using it, tell us all now either how many women with whom have you have had vaginal
intercourse or how many times have you had vaginal intercourse with one or more
women in the last ten days?
> >and the girls often end up feeling a little (and sometimes a lot) of contempt
> for
> >the patrons as well.
>
> And what can they DO about this contempt?
Speaking of doing something, I'd like to know if YOU did anything. You claim the
alleged system "stripper gold" works, so as a result of using it, tell us all now
either how many women with whom have you have had vaginal intercourse or how many
times have you had vaginal intercourse with one or more women in the last ten days?
> >That is really all I have to say on the subject. Let the discerning reader
> >decide for himself. It is four years since I worked the club scene and I
> >doubt very seriously that anything has changed.
>
> You are one ex-dancer.
Speaking of ex-dancers (since they are no longer dancing while they are having sex)
I have a question for you. You claim the alleged system "stripper gold" works, so
as a result of using it, tell us all now either how many women with whom have you
have had vaginal intercourse or how many times have you had vaginal intercourse
with one or more women in the last ten days?
> Actually, a great deal has changed in four years. Try dancing again and you'll
> see that almost immediately.
I'd like to find something out immediately. You claim the alleged system "stripper
gold" works, so as a result of using it, tell us all now either how many women with
whom have you have had vaginal intercourse or how many times have you had vaginal
intercourse with one or more women in the last ten days?
> Ray Gordon: BACK by popular demand!
I have a demand... (I'll let you guess this one.)
> Limited time only!
Well, since our time is limited, please answer one question I have in a hurry.
(You can guess what the question is.)
> Everything you need to know about women. FREE!
Well, there is one thing I'd like to know about women, I have a question regarding
something I think you might have done with them...
--
Paul Robinson "Above all else... We shall go on..."
"...And continue!"
"If the lessons of history teach us anything it is
that nobody learns the lessons that history teaches us."
A.Melon
http://www.ray-gordon.com/ (now over 19,000 hits)
In an effort to inform the many people on Usenet who have been offended, provoked, harassed
or otherwise puzzled by the individual calling himself "Ray Gordon", the above website was
created to detail some of his behaviors, opinions, mental illness, and his tendency to
proclaim himself an expert on pretty much everything. The site is NOT affiliated with Gordon
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In article <20030218115916...@mb-fg.aol.com>
Oh, but they ARE!
And secretaries don't?
Which again means nothing.
Accurately.
You are one ex-dancer.
A Modern Caveman
>> >amoral or immoral, one thing I think is important to remember: these clubs
>> >are
>> >selling a fantasy. And some people, apparently, can't tell fantasy from
>> >reality
>> >and inevitably end up getting burned.
>>
>> And some men CAN tell that it's not all fantasy and wind up getting LAID.
>I'd
>> explain HOW but that's reserved for "Stripper Gold."
>
>Which you did not, do not, and never will have any intention of telling us,
>and in
>all probability do not have any alleged "stripper gold" system, but simply
>made up
>the name in an attempt to taunt people about a so-called system that most
>likely
>does not work.
How can it be a taunt if everyone has "no faith" in what I write? (of course
they do but that's another story).
See, my critics count on me needing the approval of others or the public so
badly that I'd keep throwing out better and better theory in an attempt to win
them over. Instead, I take a short-term hit and wait for more favorable
conditions to release my work (holding out for a better price is standard in
the writing community), and let those who claim they haven't taken my ideas
fish for themselves. We can see how impressive they've been in telling men how
to pluck strippers out of their clubs.
"Stripper Gold" exists. The method was discovered not by accident, but through
simple experience. Four years and a few months ago, after I wrote my first
book, I started going to strip clubs because I felt that a "seduction guru"
should fear no environment, and should be able to seduce in any environment. I
took an objective look at what I was presented with, while remembering the many
cases of relationships and marriages that have resulted from customers meeting
dancers, what I saw with my own eyes ten years ago when a player brought home
TWO dancers one night (and left one for me in the living room, who cried while
I ignored her because I wasn't sure of her purpose -- total AFC at that time,
plus I wasn't into being surprised).
So I started going, tried out various attitudes, approaches, and methods, and
just observed over time. Mid to late 2000 I pulled off a pluck that I couldn't
believe and I learned once and for all that everything you hear about customers
not being able to score is absolute, total, 100 percent BULLSHIT.
What is also BULLSHIT is that any man with this skill would NOT take advantage
of it. Even the best PUA has dry spells, and what better way to break one than
to just work a method like Stripper Gold? Of course it's not foolproof, and I
only claim a 7 percent success rate with it, and that's not from the total
population but from the ones you make progress with to start out.
Sounds like a horrible batting average: .070. Seven percent. I hear people
here claiming 50, 60, 90 percent success rates with women who have 100-500 men
wanting them at one time. Something not adding up here? Those high percentage
scores are usually after a few key indicators have come into existence.
Anyway, if I know I can seduce 7 percent of the strippers who clear my first
hurdle, I'll take those odds any day, because getting sex from a strip club
just becomes a matter of time, if I WANT it to be. I have a good idea of how
long it takes, what it costs (over and above what going to a regular bar would
cost), what type of stripper I'll get, and how. I also tend to put quality WAY
over quantity, as there is also a group of strippers that would fuck me if I
would ask, or who would give me their number without my even asking for it, but
as usual, most of them I wouldn't want.
The best advice on strippers I've seen out here has come from Mystery. His
method of doing it is to present the high-energy "I'm having a great day"
enthusiasm mixed with an "I'm not a customer" posture, combined with getting
the staff on his side. That's very effective too and I'm sure the men here
could use that to their advantage as well.
What I do bears little resemblance to that method, however. I don't hide the
fact that I'm a "customer" and in fact being a "customer" carries with it some
extreme advantages, which I'd get into in more detail except then I'd be
revealing the method.
I think of it like chess, as Mystery said (I'm USCF peak rating of 2000, or an
OFFICIAL expert). The FIRST thing I did when I began playing was study Bobby
Fischer's openings, on the theory that if the moves were good enough for him,
they were good enough for me, and I'd figure out why they were the best moves
once I was in the positions. As a result, within four years I was outplaying
grandmasters in the opening and have held my own with a world-championship
challenger through 17 moves of a tactical opening as BLACK. In most lines I
can play the first 10-15 moves completely without major error or any error.
Past that point, my strength drops off to about Expert level, and my overall
playing strength is probably around 2300 or higher. I have sustained a
performance rating of 2280 for more than 20 games, meaning if I started fresh
from that point my rating today would be 2280 instead of 1900. On the other
hand, the prize money for under-2000 is identical to that for under-2400 so
there's no incentive to do anything but win your way up in class.
As for the strippers, I see nothing in the audience on the internet that
inspires me to release the method. I know it's valuable because I see men
spending hundreds or thousands per visit to a club. I wouldn't be surprised if
a few regulars here spend a lot more than they'd admit, in or out of the clubs.
You think it's difficult to pay women to help give the public the appearance
that you can seduce them? I could have done that if I had no scruples, but
it's not my fault if the public wants to be duped. Let them learn the hard way
that they have to learn to think for themselves.
The other problem is that on the net, those who provide the best information
aren't getting the best paychecks. Until that changes, you're going to see
those who have the most to offer going "on strike" until the public wises up or
someone steps in to restore the MERIT SYSTEM.
As you have pointed out, if people are going to trash me no matter what I say,
that's too bad for them, because I definitely have a lot to say about stripper
seduction. If others think that they can get "all the information they need"
elsewhere, let them go to those places and get this. So far I haven't seen a
single thing which impresses me.
>> >These clubs are no test of a man's "pick-up" skills.
>> Oh, but they ARE!
>
>So you say. By the way, over the past ten days, how many women have you
>picked up
>and had vaginal intercourse with, or how many times have you had vaginal
>intercourse as a result of using your system in the past ten days?
None! I've been buried in legal paperwork and it's been snowing! I had a
hearing last week, and three "beat the clock" deadlines.
I have done some erotic phone hypno, however, and to me that can be as good or
better than some sex. Not something most men would understand, but if *I*
value it, that's all that should matter. I'm not going to go out and swap
fluids with just any woman; I'm extremely picky. My method doesn't require me
to, anyway. The important thing is the results I get from the effort I expend,
and how well other men who implement my method do.
I can say that if seduction were all I cared about, structuring my life so I
have incredibly beautiful women around me all the time would be child's play.
Those men who want that can use my methods to achieve it anyway.
LOGICALLY, since you seem to value that, 150 years from now, my methods will
not be measured by how *I* do with them, will they? *I* have herpes. *I*
fight reverse-discrimination and insult a lot of pretty women for how they
behave. *I* do things that cost me sex all the time. *I*, however, am not my
*readers* now am I?
My readers are men who don't make waves, who aren't known as even using my
methods, who blend in, make more money than I do, cause less controversy, have
better cars and apartments, no STDs, etc.
The reason I know my methods work is that if *I* can get laid with them, just
about ANY man should be able to as well, given that I have a lot more to
overcome than the typical male.
>You claim
>it
>works, so as a result of using it, either how many women have you banged or
>how
>many times have you banged one or more women in the last ten days?
I told you: none!! Had other things to do.
>> >And stories of amazing success should
>> >probably be examined closely.
>>
>> So should stories of women who swear that stuff "won't work" when men know
>that
>> it WILL WORK.
>
>You claim the alleged system "stripper gold" works, so as a result of using
>it,
>tell us all now either how many women have you banged or how many times have
>you
>banged one or more women in the last ten days?
Told you: none. Check the legal docket and you'll see why.
Now, let's make sure we hold EVERY guru to these standards.
>> >Like I said before, the club girls are on their guard and have all
>> >their defensive shields running.
>>
>> I'd explain the weakness of this but that would cause me to release part of
>> "Stripper Gold."
>
>Because there is no way you can say anything without admitting you have no
>system,
>it is a complete fantasy, a creation of whole cloth. Otherwise, you claim
>the
>alleged system "stripper gold" works, so as a result of using it, tell us all
>now
>either how many women with whom have you have had vaginal intercourse or how
>many
>times have you had vaginal intercourse with one or more women in the last ten
>days?
Told you: none!
I haven't used the method at all.
Last time I put the method into practice I walked out of a club with an e-mail
and a phone number, and an invitation to an erotic rendezvous at a hotel which
I still haven't had time to follow up on. That was from a visit where I walked
into the club with about $23.00 and stayed about two hours, with at least half
of that money spent on my own drinks.
If I can do that even one in *ten* visits I'll be a busy beaver for a long
time.
You should also know something else: women don't like men who let others
badmouth them. Those who have defamed me are aware of this and try to drive
women away from me with that. Because of this, my first priority is to undo
that damage and set the record straight. Without that illegal tactic, I'd also
have more women now than I otherwise would. Of course the idiot women who have
believed the liars wind up paying for it when they realize they were being used
or when they are betrayed by the liars (then they come running back to me).
A better test of my method is to see how it works for someone more typical of
my audience than someone like me.
I make money selling audio erotica. I obviously know *something* about
sex....and hypnosis.
>> So far everything you cite as a disadvantage when it comes to strip
>> clubs, I find to be an advantage.
>
>So tell us, just how much of an advantage did it give you? You claim the
>alleged
>system "stripper gold" works, so as a result of using it, tell us all now
>either
>how many women with whom have you have had vaginal intercourse or how many
>times
>have you had vaginal intercourse with one or more women in the last ten days?
Told you: none.
Do I have to fuck a woman every 10 days to prevent my method from turning into
a pumpkin?
>> >And if you want to meet a group of ladies who have
>> >heard every single known pick-up line in the
>> >book - talk to an off-duty dancer.
>>
>> Hardly. A good pickup line is one that "slips under her radar." Still,
>the
>> woman who swears she can't be conned won't admit it when she is.
>
>So how many women have you conned into their panties, or how many times have
>you
>conned them? You claim the alleged system "stripper gold" works, so as a
>result of
>using it, tell us all now either how many women with whom have you have had
>vaginal
>intercourse or how many times have you had vaginal intercourse with one or
>more
>women in the last ten days?
Told you: none. If I had, I would have missed some court deadlines.
>> >Trust me honey, we've heard them all!
>>
>> Trust ME, you haven't. Further, a "Stripper Gold" seducer doesn't have to
>rely
>> on pickup lines, as the club environment is totally biased against the
>dancer.
>
>So based upon this 'biased environment' how much success have you had with
>women?
A great deal for a strip club customer!!
By the way, there was a guy who did post here a while back who e-mailed me
asking for advice on how to seduce a dancer that I had plucked a week before
him! She had given me her number, we were going to hook up (this was before I
left to go work for the law firm), but I "played it cool" and didn't give her
my # when she asked for it, then I waited two weeks. When I called her, her #
had been disconnected. A few months later, I get this guy asking me for
advice, I don't tell him I know her until after I'm done, we laugh and talk
about her, and he tells me what went on with her #. He had basically plucked
her out from under my nose while I was playing it cool with her.
I still think I did the right thing, I just found it funny. There is "proof"
somewhere in the ASF audience of this.
>You claim the alleged system "stripper gold" works, so as a result of using
>it,
>tell us all now either how many women with whom have you have had vaginal
>intercourse or how many times have you had vaginal intercourse with one or
>more
>women in the last ten days?
The interrogatory is a little boring. At least make it more relevant next
time.
>> If every man knew what I know about strippers, they'd be out of business.
>
>So give us some information to show us how they would be driven out of
>business,
>and we'll start with something really simple, that I'd like to ask, and you
>can
>guess the question: Are you now or have you ever been a member of the
>Communist
>Party? Oh wait, wrong question. You claim the alleged system "stripper
>gold"
>works, so as a result of using it, tell us all now either how many women with
>whom
>have you have had vaginal intercourse or how many times have you had vaginal
>intercourse with one or more women in the last ten days?
Asked and answered.
>> >As Mr. Bailey has pointed out, some of the girls who work these clubs,
>> >especially the career "strippers" can become pretty jaded. Many of them
>have
>> >been sadly misused by men in the past and look at the clients as jerks
>> >anyway.
>>
>> And secretaries don't?
>
>Some might, most probably don't as I suspect secretaries are not 'hit on' ten
>times
>a day at work.
Read the "there's this chick at work" posts....the beauty premium says it all.
Those men are more like "loser customers" than the men at their strip clubs,
that's for sure.
How difficult is it to hire a temp for one day just to check her out? Costs
less than $200 to get her sent right to the office, ALONE all day and seeking
the boss's approval. It can even be done on company or taxpayer money a lot of
the time, and some work might get done.
Glad I had this "discussion" in fact, because discovering this pattern for a
discrimination case would be child's play.
>Oh, and speaking of work, I have a question regarding hitting
>on
>strippers who are working that you might be able to answer. You claim the
>alleged
>system "stripper gold" works, so as a result of using it, tell us all now
>either
>how many women with whom have you have had vaginal intercourse or how many
>times
>have you had vaginal intercourse with one or more women in the last ten days?
Asked and answered. <Yawn>
>> >the end destination of girls whose looks and figures start to go and who
>stay in
>>
>> >the scene too long. Often their next stop is usually working the street.
>>
>> Or marrying a rich guy, or taking a corporate eye-candy job.
>
>Hmmm, corporate eye candy job. Might that include working in a strip bar?
Nope.
>I
>have
>a question since I understand you know something about seducing strippers, or
>claim
>to do so... You claim the alleged system "stripper gold" works, so as a
>result of
>using it, tell us all now either how many women with whom have you have had
>vaginal
>intercourse or how many times have you had vaginal intercourse with one or
>more
>women in the last ten days?
Asked and answered. <yawn>
>> As for the "high end" clubs, don't go thinking you are all that. There are
>> REAL DANCERS who don't even have to strip who are superior to the "high
>end"
>> strippers (who aren't much different from the "low end" strippers except
>for
>> the clubs they work at).
>
>Well, I'm kind of curious since you seem to know (or claim to know) something
>about
>strippers in clubs. You claim the alleged system "stripper gold" works, so
>as a
>result of using it, tell us all now either how many women with whom have you
>have
>had vaginal intercourse or how many times have you had vaginal intercourse
>with one
>or more women in the last ten days?
Cut-and-pasting again?
>> >In the high-end clubs in places like Vegas, Atlantic City, and Miami, many
>of
>> >the girls are students who have short term economic goals and are really
>not
>> >available to the patrons at all.
>>
>> Until they decide they are.
>
>I have a question. Maybe you know of some women who work in a strip club who
>have
>decided they are available to the patrons. You claim the alleged system
>"stripper
>gold" works, so as a result of using it, tell us all now either how many
>women with
>whom have you have had vaginal intercourse or how many times have you had
>vaginal
>intercourse with one or more women in the last ten days?
^
>> >The better clubs have, at the very minimum, guidlines on
>> >fraternization and most girls will not risk a good paying job just
>> >to go out with a customer.
>>
>> Which again means nothing.
>
>Speaking of nothing, there is a thing I claim doesn't exist and someone else
>says
>does. Maybe you know about it. The thing I claim doesn't exist is called
>"stripper gold" an alleged system that supposedly allows a man to seduce
>strippers
>into having sex with him. I've heard from hearsay evidence that you know
>something
>about it and would know it works by testing it out to confirm that. So I'd
>like to
>find out from someone who does. You claim the alleged system "stripper gold"
>works,
>so as a result of using it, tell us all now either how many women with whom
>have
>you have had vaginal intercourse or how many times have you had vaginal
>intercourse
>with one or more women in the last ten days?
^^
>> Also, those "high end" clubs tend to be MOB owned, and the way to get the
>> dancers there is to just go through the staff (or BECOME the staff), but
>that's
>> simple.
>
>So I'm interested in knowing how many of this MOB of women did you happen to
>sleep
>with.
Let me do my best Joe Pesci impression.....he did get Sharon Stone in "Casino."
>You claim the alleged system "stripper gold" works, so as a result of
>using
>it, tell us all now either how many women with whom have you have had vaginal
>intercourse or how many times have you had vaginal intercourse with one or
>more
>women in the last ten days?
^^^
>> >It (usually) isn't worth it. Boyfriends are easy
>> >enough to find outside the club.
>>
>> You make them sound interchangeable. Far cry from a "soulmate."
>
>Well, speaking of interchangeable, I'm curious if you found any women with
>which to
>interchange. You claim the alleged system "stripper gold" works, so as a
>result of
>using it, tell us all now either how many women with whom have you have had
>vaginal
>intercourse or how many times have you had vaginal intercourse with one or
>more
>women in the last ten days?
^^
>> Still, you're overlooking a critical problem that comes with the "high end"
>> clubs. Remember your friend Chora? She didn't seem to high-quality.
>How'd
>> she wind up again?
>
>I would like to know if there were some women you might have wound up with.
>You
>claim the alleged system "stripper gold" works, so as a result of using it,
>tell us
>all now either how many women with whom have you have had vaginal intercourse
>or
>how many times have you had vaginal intercourse with one or more women in the
>last
>ten days?
^^
>> >Lastly, I think the club life encourages a subtle and understated kind of
>> >mutual contempt. The patrons quite often view the girls as little more
>than
>> whores,
>>
>> Accurately.
>
>So I'm kind of curious if you were involved in any of these 'little more than
>whores.' You claim the alleged system "stripper gold" works, so as a result
>of
>using it, tell us all now either how many women with whom have you have had
>vaginal
>intercourse or how many times have you had vaginal intercourse with one or
>more
>women in the last ten days?
^^^
>> >and the girls often end up feeling a little (and sometimes a lot) of
>contempt
>> for
>> >the patrons as well.
>>
>> And what can they DO about this contempt?
>
>Speaking of doing something, I'd like to know if YOU did anything. You claim
>the
>alleged system "stripper gold" works, so as a result of using it, tell us all
>now
>either how many women with whom have you have had vaginal intercourse or how
>many
>times have you had vaginal intercourse with one or more women in the last ten
>days?
^^
>> >That is really all I have to say on the subject. Let the discerning reader
>> >decide for himself. It is four years since I worked the club scene and I
>> >doubt very seriously that anything has changed.
>>
>> You are one ex-dancer.
>
>Speaking of ex-dancers (since they are no longer dancing while they are
>having sex)
>I have a question for you. You claim the alleged system "stripper gold"
>works, so
>as a result of using it, tell us all now either how many women with whom have
>you
>have had vaginal intercourse or how many times have you had vaginal
>intercourse
>with one or more women in the last ten days?
^^
>
>> Actually, a great deal has changed in four years. Try dancing again and
>you'll
>> see that almost immediately.
>
>I'd like to find something out immediately. You claim the alleged system
>"stripper
>gold" works, so as a result of using it, tell us all now either how many
>women with
>whom have you have had vaginal intercourse or how many times have you had
>vaginal
>intercourse with one or more women in the last ten days?
^^
>> Ray Gordon: BACK by popular demand!
>
>I have a demand... (I'll let you guess this one.)
>
>> Limited time only!
>
>Well, since our time is limited, please answer one question I have in a
>hurry.
>(You can guess what the question is.)
>
>> Everything you need to know about women. FREE!
>
>Well, there is one thing I'd like to know about women, I have a question
>regarding
>something I think you might have done with them...
^^^
Ray Gordon: BACK by popular demand!
Limited time only!
Everything you need to know about women. FREE!
Paul Robinson
> >> >Whether you believe that "strip clubs" and the girls who work in them, are
> >> >amoral or immoral, one thing I think is important to remember: these clubs
> >> >are selling a fantasy. And some people, apparently, can't tell fantasy from
> >> >reality and inevitably end up getting burned.
> >>
> >> And some men CAN tell that it's not all fantasy and wind up getting LAID.
> >> I'd explain HOW but that's reserved for "Stripper Gold."
> >
> >Which you did not, do not, and never will have any intention of telling us,
> >and in all probability do not have any alleged "stripper gold" system, but
> >simply made up the name in an attempt to taunt people about a so-called
> >system that most likely does not work.
>
> How can it be a taunt if everyone has "no faith" in what I write? (of course
> they do but that's another story).
If someone claims to have discovered something but won't tell what it is, that's a
taunt even if nobody would listen to him.
> See, my critics count on me needing the approval of others or the public so
> badly that I'd keep throwing out better and better theory in an attempt to win
> them over. Instead, I take a short-term hit and wait for more favorable
> conditions to release my work (holding out for a better price is standard in
> the writing community), and let those who claim they haven't taken my ideas
> fish for themselves. We can see how impressive they've been in telling men how
> to pluck strippers out of their clubs.
Whatever. If you choose to release such information you will do so. If you don't,
you don't. But if you're not going to release it, the only reason you would have
had for mentioning it is to taunt people.
I wrote a book. It's called "The Gatekeeper: The Gate Contracts." I wrote it
about 5 years ago. I am now working on another book that is effectively a later
sequel to that book, which is called "Instrument of God." In order to make the
connections between the events in {Gatekeeper} and the events in {Instrument}
interconnect, I figure I need at least two more books between the two, neither of
which is anything more than a lot of unfinished dialog and unconnected material,
and some of which is only in my head. I even have names for the two books. "The
Gatekeeper Admits" for book two, and "The Gatekeeper's Small Change" for book
three. Depending on how the story turns out, I may need a fourth book, one to go
after {Small Change}. But the point is, I'm not advertising or mentioning those
two books and have never told anyone about them until now as I don't think they
will be out for a year or more. (I also have to find an agent as no publisher will
touch a first-time author without one.) So I'm not going around telling people
about two books that are not even written and might not exist for years. Nor do I
go around telling people about my first book and how wonderful it would be but I'm
not releasing it because I can't get an agent, yadda, yadda, yadda, similar to the
way you have been taunting people.
When a software company announces a product that they do not release, we call that
'vaporware.' It's often done to test the waters and in some cases to scare
competitors from trying to develop a product.
> "Stripper Gold" exists. The method was discovered not by accident, but through
> simple experience. Four years and a few months ago, after I wrote my first
> book, I started going to strip clubs because I felt that a "seduction guru"
> should fear no environment, and should be able to seduce in any environment. I
> took an objective look at what I was presented with, while remembering the many
> cases of relationships and marriages that have resulted from customers meeting
> dancers, what I saw with my own eyes ten years ago when a player brought home
> TWO dancers one night (and left one for me in the living room, who cried while
> I ignored her because I wasn't sure of her purpose -- total AFC at that time,
> plus I wasn't into being surprised).
Well, if that is the case, then if you've really developed something like that you
should have no trouble finding a publisher to buy it. Books that can tell men how
to get laid are obviously going to be very popular.
> So I started going, tried out various attitudes, approaches, and methods, and
> just observed over time. Mid to late 2000 I pulled off a pluck that I couldn't
> believe and I learned once and for all that everything you hear about customers
> not being able to score is absolute, total, 100 percent BULLSHIT.
If that is the case, then you've certainly discovered something that I am certain a
publisher would be eager to buy because it would sell like hotcakes.
> What is also BULLSHIT is that any man with this skill would NOT take advantage
> of it. Even the best PUA has dry spells, and what better way to break one than
> to just work a method like Stripper Gold? Of course it's not foolproof, and I
> only claim a 7 percent success rate with it, and that's not from the total
> population but from the ones you make progress with to start out.
Well, that means that it is something I'm sure a number of guys would be interested
in, and I'm sure an agent could find a publisher in no time. Since you've had
books published you should be easily able to get your agent to find a publisher
interested in the book on the subject.
> Sounds like a horrible batting average: .070. Seven percent. I hear people
> here claiming 50, 60, 90 percent success rates with women who have 100-500 men
> wanting them at one time. Something not adding up here? Those high percentage
> scores are usually after a few key indicators have come into existence.
I hadn't heard percentage numbers except for the 'nice shoes, wanna fuck' line
which gets a lot of slaps but apparently works in 4% of tries, that is, if you ask
25 women, one of them will agree. Sort of reminds me of Marty Feldman in Silent
Movie, who keeps hitting on any woman he can find, and they keep slapping him, then
he asks this tall HB, and he winces expecting to get slapped, she thinks about it
for a moment, then says, "sounds delicious, I'd love to try it," whereupon his
friends grab him before he can get a chance to ask her for her number or get her to
a motel.
> The best advice on strippers I've seen out here has come from Mystery. His
> method of doing it is to present the high-energy "I'm having a great day"
> enthusiasm mixed with an "I'm not a customer" posture, combined with getting
> the staff on his side. That's very effective too and I'm sure the men here
> could use that to their advantage as well.
>
> What I do bears little resemblance to that method, however. I don't hide the
> fact that I'm a "customer" and in fact being a "customer" carries with it some
> extreme advantages, which I'd get into in more detail except then I'd be
> revealing the method.
Whatever. I don't think I've ever said that I didn't think you had something
important to say. I have said, on more than one occasion, that you have a
piss-poor attitude and a kilometer wide chip on your shoulder.
> I think of it like chess, as Mystery said (I'm USCF peak rating of 2000, or an
> OFFICIAL expert). The FIRST thing I did when I began playing was study Bobby
> Fischer's openings, on the theory that if the moves were good enough for him,
> they were good enough for me, and I'd figure out why they were the best moves
> once I was in the positions. As a result, within four years I was outplaying
> grandmasters in the opening and have held my own with a world-championship
> challenger through 17 moves of a tactical opening as BLACK. In most lines I
> can play the first 10-15 moves completely without major error or any error.
> Past that point, my strength drops off to about Expert level, and my overall
> playing strength is probably around 2300 or higher. I have sustained a
> performance rating of 2280 for more than 20 games, meaning if I started fresh
> from that point my rating today would be 2280 instead of 1900. On the other
> hand, the prize money for under-2000 is identical to that for under-2400 so
> there's no incentive to do anything but win your way up in class.
So you're a chess expert too. Well, let me ask you this: what is Kasparov's
number, so I have something to compare it to.
> As for the strippers, I see nothing in the audience on the internet that
> inspires me to release the method. I know it's valuable because I see men
> spending hundreds or thousands per visit to a club. I wouldn't be surprised if
> a few regulars here spend a lot more than they'd admit, in or out of the clubs.
> You think it's difficult to pay women to help give the public the appearance
> that you can seduce them? I could have done that if I had no scruples, but
> it's not my fault if the public wants to be duped. Let them learn the hard way
> that they have to learn to think for themselves.
>
> The other problem is that on the net, those who provide the best information
> aren't getting the best paychecks. Until that changes, you're going to see
> those who have the most to offer going "on strike" until the public wises up or
> someone steps in to restore the MERIT SYSTEM.
That's the second time you've said something that reminds me of Ayn Rand's {Atlas
Shrugged}. About those who have the most to offer going on strike. That's the
idea behind that book. But the answer is not to force a merit system, because it
will never work. All that will happen is that those who do not want to go along
will either quit hiring and use something else to get around the law, and those who
aren't sure what the law requires will probably avoid doing anything unless it's
backed up by lots of paperwork and as a result, it will make it even harder for
someone to get hired because places will again be afraid of more lawsuits. The
last thing we need in a weak economy is more government rules on how one can and
cannot hire people, to encourage them to solve the problem by not hiring people at
all. This will push places to go toward having as many people be either employees
of temporary agencies without benefits, or having them as independent contractors
and having no benefits.
> As you have pointed out, if people are going to trash me no matter what I say,
> that's too bad for them, because I definitely have a lot to say about stripper
> seduction. If others think that they can get "all the information they need"
> elsewhere, let them go to those places and get this. So far I haven't seen a
> single thing which impresses me.
It's only been since perhaps the 1960s or so that it was even realized that women
are sexual beings same as men and are entitled to enjoy sex just as much. Shere
Hite's "Hite Report" allowed a lot of women to send in their responses and it
showed most men were (and probably still are to some degree) terrible in bed,
uncaring of women, give lousy head and don't care much about her feelings. The
exposure of this sort of information, as well as many of the other books, may have
done a great deal to change that. But I've spoken to some women, and I understand
that there still are problems with a lot of guys in the way they act in bed. What
might have happened is women decided to refuse to just "lie still and think of
England" but to learn that they need to tell a man if he's doing her wrong and tell
him. Or maybe it still goes on. Or maybe they're lying to me.
All I know is what I have access to and what I see. Every woman I've ever had
sexually has said I am fantastic in bed, so either I'm extremely good or they all
lied to me. And then came back for more after telling me lies about how much I
overload them. And when they came back, it wasn't because I'd been buying them
anything or spending anything on them.
The thing I am saying is that I think there is plenty of information out there on
how to properly make love to a woman and I think most men don't bother to even try
to find it out. That I have learned it makes me demonstrably better in bed than
others if what I note from the women I've been with is true. It's all I have to go
by.
> >> >These clubs are no test of a man's "pick-up" skills.
> >> Oh, but they ARE!
> >
> >So you say. By the way, over the past ten days, how many women have you
> >picked up
> >and had vaginal intercourse with, or how many times have you had vaginal
> >intercourse as a result of using your system in the past ten days?
>
> None! I've been buried in legal paperwork and it's been snowing! I had a
> hearing last week, and three "beat the clock" deadlines.
In view of the circumstances I'll accept that for the moment. Well, when you
actually do get some women, then say so. Or answer this question. How many women
have you EVER picked up and had vaginal intercourse with, or how many times have
you had vaginal intercourse as a result of using your "stripper gold" system at
all? A reasonable estimate is okay.
> I have done some erotic phone hypno, however, and to me that can be as good or
> better than some sex. Not something most men would understand, but if *I*
> value it, that's all that should matter.
Absolutely, if that is what turns you on, that's all that should matter to you.
But however, most men (which includes me) ARE interested in something beyond phone
sex. In fact, I won't do cybersex with a woman or phone sex any more because I
have discovered if they are interested in that they aren't interested in sleeping
with you. I never asked any woman to do this because I don't believe sex is a
spectator sport. But I've done it on occasion when asked.
> I'm not going to go out and swap fluids with just any woman; I'm extremely picky.
So that's why you got Herpes Simplex 2, eh? :) (That's not libelous since it's a
truthful statement; you yourself admitted it in one of your books.)
> My method doesn't require me to, anyway. The important thing is the results I
> get
> from the effort I expend, and how well other men who implement my method do.
As some people have pointed out in some other places, if what you do is not getting
you laid, it's intellectual masturbation.
> I can say that if seduction were all I cared about, structuring my life so I
> have incredibly beautiful women around me all the time would be child's play.
> Those men who want that can use my methods to achieve it anyway.
Funny but I get the general impression that is not the case.
> LOGICALLY, since you seem to value that, 150 years from now, my methods will
> not be measured by how *I* do with them, will they? *I* have herpes. *I*
> fight reverse-discrimination and insult a lot of pretty women for how they
> behave. *I* do things that cost me sex all the time. *I*, however, am not my
> *readers* now am I?
To the extent you have any readers. Which if they did the exact opposite of what I
did, hear what you have to say here first, then go to your website, would be a lot
lower number. The worst thing about it is I happen to agree with quite a bit of
what you say and I do believe you would have something worth listening to. Your
problem is you come on with the worst kind of insolent arrogance and turn off the
very audience that you're trying to reach.
It's like members of Al Qaeda expecting people from Western civilization to be
sympathetic to their cause after September 11, 2001. If what you have to say has
value and importance, it is only necessary to lay out your ideas. Resist the
effort to be an arrogant mean spirit and show your points. Good material will rise
above attacks if it's shown to be right and valid. But you seem to be incapable of
rising to even that level, and as a result, your nastiness contaminates what you
have to say and thus nobody will listen to you. And you have no one to blame for
this state of affairs but yourself.
> My readers are men who don't make waves, who aren't known as even using my
> methods, who blend in, make more money than I do, cause less controversy, have
> better cars and apartments, no STDs, etc.
>
> The reason I know my methods work is that if *I* can get laid with them, just
> about ANY man should be able to as well, given that I have a lot more to
> overcome than the typical male.
Well, fine. But I haven't seen you explaining examples of your ideas here; all I
have seen you do is bicker, and whine, and scream, and threaten litigation. Since
you're currently not selling your books, you should be able to give examples of
better ideas than what is being stated here by perhaps offering choice quotes from
them.
The name of this group is "alt.seduction.fast," so while supposedly it was to deal
with Speed Seduction, I would argue any method one could announce, and any comments
which would improve, the ability of a person to quickly find someone with whom they
can have sex, or find ways to overcome the other person's apprehensions, would be
valid to relate here.
Or in the alternative, summarize some of the points made in your books and make
them here. If you're actually trying to get people to read what you wrote, show
your ideas and let your ideas speak for you. That's all. If your ideas are good,
other people attacking them won't matter. If your ideas are not good, all the
threats and vituperation you can bluster will not help them.
> Last time I put the method into practice I walked out of a club with an e-mail
> and a phone number, and an invitation to an erotic rendezvous at a hotel which
> I still haven't had time to follow up on. That was from a visit where I walked
> into the club with about $23.00 and stayed about two hours, with at least half
> of that money spent on my own drinks.
>
> If I can do that even one in *ten* visits I'll be a busy beaver for a long
> time.
I think the term you should be saying is you'll be busy WITH beaver for a long
time!
> You should also know something else: women don't like men who let others
> badmouth them.
Does that mean they like men WHO badmouth them?
> Those who have defamed me are aware of this and try to drive women
> away from me with that.
I wasn't aware the women you chased read USENET. Unless you're claiming they visit
the clubs you go to and tell women there how you say that "All women are 'sluts'
and 'whores'."
> >> So far everything you cite as a disadvantage when it comes to strip
> >> clubs, I find to be an advantage.
> >
> >So tell us, just how much of an advantage did it give you? You claim the
> >alleged system "stripper gold" works, so as a result of using it, tell us all
> now
> >either how many women with whom have you have had vaginal intercourse or how
> many
> >times have you had vaginal intercourse with one or more women in the last ten
> days?
>
> Told you: none.
>
> Do I have to fuck a woman every 10 days to prevent my method from turning into
> a pumpkin?
I picked 10 days as a random sample. Okay, make it in the last 30 days. Or the
last 6 months. Or pick some time period and give a number. I was trying to be
funny by repeating the same question over and over.
James King
wants 100% of the profits for himself. Of course, that didn't stop him
from lying to the group and saying he was dealing with publishers on
"Outfoxing the Foxes," and taking careful attention to releasing a
product "free from errors," as he promoted.
His initial product was so full of errors that he had to essentially
recall the first edition, remove 1/6 of the book's content, and provide
new editions to those who had purchased the first book. Even after
that, he admitted that errors still existed in his book. In spite of
the fact that he said that he was taking special care with this book.
Gordon could actually benefit from a relationship with a publisher, who
would provide expert editing and typesetting for his product, and who
could also help Gordon promote his book.
Gordon, however, felt that with nothing but active Usenet promotion,
his book would reach the NYTimes best seller list, and that he would be
featured on Oprah (among other talk shows).
I find it amazing that Gordon would prefer 100% of 100 sales than 10%
of 1,000,000 sales.
James King
In article <3E546B37...@paul.washington.dc.us>, Paul Robinson