Arafat Refuses Land Back
DGVREIMAN
What many seem to not understand is that Israel "tried" to give
the Palestinian their land back several times in exchange for a
guarantee of peaceful coexistence. In the Camp David accords,
Arafat was offered the land back and an unprecedented partial
control of Jerusalem, and Arafat REFUSED to accept the Camp David
accords.
The reason Arafat refused the Camp David accords is because this
"give me back my land" claim is just a straw man excuse the
Palestinians and the rest of the Arab world are using to destroy
Israel. Arafat knew if he accepted the Camp David deal, then when
the attacks on Israel continued, he and the rest of the
terrorists would immediately lose public support and forever lose
the propaganda reason they are using to attack Israel.
Arafat knew the Palestinian constitution calls for the
destruction of all Jews and the state of Israel regardless of any
truces or land deals. Arafat also knew that the terrorist attacks
on Israel would continue regardless of any promises he made to
the Americans, or treaties he signed with Israel. So to preserve
some semblance of propaganda as to why the Arab world is using
terrorism against Israel, Arafat did the only thing he could do
when offered the Camp David deal, he refused outright to take the
Palestinian land back in exchange for a promise of peaceful
coexistence.
If the Palestinians were given all of their land back tomorrow,
do you honestly believe they and the rest of the Muslim terrorist
groups would stop attacking Israel? If you do believe the attacks
would stop if the Palestinians get their land back, then you
clearly do not understand the problem between Israel and the
Muslim Council that is running the terrorist organizations.
This Muslim Council has proclaimed it is Allah's will for all
Arabs everywhere to kill Jews wherever they can be found
(including America and the UK) and destroy Israel.
This war is about Religious opposition, and genocide, not about
land.
When one of the Palestinian suicide children bombers enter
Israel, do you believe these children have been convinced they
and all of their families will go to "paradise" if they kill
themselves due to a promise by Mr. Arafat? Or do you believe
these suicide kids believe what they believe due to an
indoctrination from Muslim Clerics? The Muslim Clerics are the
ones convincing the Palestinian children to kill themselves and
murder innocent Israelis not the terrorist leaders.
Arafat and the rest of the terrorist leaders do not have
religious powers over the people, only the Mullahs have such
power, and it is this power that is behind the terrorists and the
suicide bombers.
The radical Mullahs are not going to change their hatred of the
Jews over the return of some land to the Palestinians. The
premise is not only naive - it is ridiculous.
Doug Grant (Tm)
--
De Oppresso Liber
Happy Birthday
efkent
zionism=$=racism.
DGVREIMAN <dgg...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:Dflp8.13307$se.13...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
DGVREIMAN
news:uabpeks...@corp.supernews.com...
> Now who planted that crap into your noggin?
> zionism=$=racism.
I moved your top thread to the bottom of the post where it
belongs. Moreover, nothing has been planted in my head, I simply
reported the truth about Arafat refusing to take back the
Palestinian land when it was offered during the Camp David
accords. Apparently you nor the Palestinians wish to refute the
truth, so you are simply trying to decry it with generalized
nonsense....typical of Palestinian misinformation and propaganda.
Doug Grant (Tm)
>
David Ames
>> Now who planted that crap into your noggin?
>> zionism=$=racism.
>
>I moved your top thread to the bottom of the post where it
>belongs. Moreover, nothing has been planted in my head, I simply
>reported the truth about Arafat refusing to take back the
>Palestinian land when it was offered during the Camp David
>accords. Apparently you nor the Palestinians wish to refute the
>truth, so you are simply trying to decry it with generalized
>nonsense....typical of Palestinian misinformation and propaganda.
>
>Doug Grant (Tm)
Keep repeating it and it may come true.
zionism = racism = $$$ (Efkent, IMO you have the equation a little
mixed up)
DGVREIMAN
"David Ames" <spa...@kc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:cf6gau0t0bbs27do2...@4ax.com...
Doug says:
I do not need to keep repeating the truth for it to be true. The
world knows that Arafat declined the return of the Palestinian
land in the Camp David accords. It is clear to the world that
this war is not about land, nor Israeli occupation, it is about a
Muslim edict to kill all Jews and destroy Israel.
Arafat knew he could not accept the Palestinian land back as he
knew the Muslim Council that is really running things would not
stop the suicide bombers even if the land was returned. Then
Arafat's propaganda that " the Palestinians are fighting to get
their land back" would have been exposed for the lie it clearly
is.
This conflict is about the same issues as existed long before any
land was occupied by Israel. When the Palestinians and the rest
of the Arab world attacked Israel in 1948, then again in 1967
then again in 1973, in full force, without warning, on a Jewish
Holy Day, were those attacks about "land and occupation?" No of
course not. The occupation of Palestinian lands did not occur in
earnest until after the Palestinian's last attack in 1973.
Israel occupied the Palestinian lands to maintain a buffer zone
between it and its sworn enemies after it was attacked three
separate times by the same enemy!
The Palestinians are massacring innocent Israeli children for the
exclusive purpose of genocide, as they have proclaimed long
before their lands were occupied. Then when Israel retaliates
against the Palestinian war crimes and genocide, the Palestinians
try to howl they are being attacked. It is the Palestinians that
are sending the suicide bombers to kill innocent Israelis, not
the other way around.
Doug Grant (Tm)
DGVREIMAN
certainly not apologizing for anything. So you must be a poor
reader of posts.
"Colin" <bosw...@exploratoire.ch> wrote in message
news:3CA82636...@exploratoire.ch...
> Doug,
> You are a poor propagandist. Not even a very good apologist.
>
> > The Palestinians were to
> > generate their own government and police force.
>
> Trashed by Israeli F16s and tank shells.
Please Colin, Arafat did not maintain his agreements, and he used
that Police force to protect terrorists. Moreover, we both know
that Arafat refused to take the Palestinian land back when it was
offered during the Camp David accords. Arafat knew that if he
agreed to take the land back the suicide bombing would not stop.
The Muslim Council running things has sworn to destroy all Jews
and the state of Israel, land or no land.
>
> > (2) The Camp
> > David accords would have returned 97% of all the land the
> > Palestinians lost when they attacked Israel without warning
three
> > separate times.
>
> UN Security Council resolutions insist Israel withdraws to it's
pre-'67
> borders and dismantles settlements.
Doug Says:
You need to read the UN Security Council resolutions Colin. What
it says is that Israel and return the territories it wants to
return, PROVIDED it is assured of "safe and secure" borders.
Israel offered to return 97% of all land back to the Palestinians
during the Camp David accords for assurances that the terrorist
attacks would stop. Arafat refused, and thereby violated the UN
Security Council resolution conditions for the return of the
Palestinian land.
>
> > (3) The Israelis are doing nothing to the
> > Palestinians that any other country would do that suffers
> > constant and repetitive massacres of its innocent civilian
> > population.
>
> The killing of hundreds of Palestinian children is a blight on
the
> conscience of the whole Israeli people. Shame on you, Doug, for
> appeasing the IDF killing machine. Stand up for decency! Insist
that
> your forces behave with honour!
Doug Says:
First of all Colin, they are not "my" forces. I am an American,
and not even a Jew. Second, try to get this in your head Colin;
The Israelis are "retaliating" to the massacres of their innocent
civilians. The Israelis are not the aggressors, it is the
Palestinians that are sending over the suicide bombers.
Meanwhile, when Israel retaliates, the Palestinians are using
civilians as human shields to protect their arms and explosives,
and to house their terrorists. That way they can use the
collateral damage inflicted on their civilian population when the
Israelis retaliate as just more transparent and utterly
ridiculous propaganda.
>
As a case in point Colin, when the Nazis attacked Europe, and the
Allies started to retaliate with bombers, were civilians targeted
that worked in munitions factories and helped the Nazi cause? Of
course they were. Did they know they would be targeted if they
helped the Nazi war machine? Of course they did. But when a
suicide bomber attacks a 12-year-old Israeli little girl's
birthday party, or an Israeli Pizza Parlor full of teenagers,
what military value could those attacks provide? What strategy
other than vengeance is at work here?
Are the Palestinian leaders so idiotic they believe that such
attacks will change the resolve of the Israeli people to
retaliate? History proves that such attacks only strengthens the
resolve of those attacked, it prolongs the war, and infuriates
the population.
The Palestinian leaders seem to believe they can turn the
Israeli people on the Sharon Government if they massacre enough
innocent Israelis. What they clearly do not understand is those
other Israeli leaders waiting in the wings to take over the
Israeli Government are far more likely to declare open war than
Prime Minister Sharon. In either case, the Palestinians are
morons if they think such tactics will gain them anything but
more retaliation from the Israelis.
Palestinian civilians are being killed because of the Palestinian
leadership like the war criminal Arafat and the Muslim Council
that are indoctrinating the suicide bomber children. Not because
of Israeli retaliation. Israel has a right to defend itself
Colin, and if the Palestinian leadership wants to use its
civilian population as human shields, then it is sacrificing its
civilian population and is those Palestinian leaders that are
directly responsible for the deaths of Palestinian civilians, not
the Israelis.
> >
> >
> > The Israelis are retaliating and protecting themselves.
>
> The humiliation of the Palestinian people will bring death and
disaster
> to Israel and to others.
Doug Says:
What is all this talk about humiliation? Israel is not going to
die, and it is going to defend itself forever, with America's
help if necessary. Those that are bent on vengeance and blood
lust and genocide are the ones that are going to die Colin, not
the free people of the world. Moreover, if the Palestinians do
not want to be "humiliated" then they should stop massacring
Jews.
>
> > It is
> > the Palestinians that are sending terrorists to slaughter
little
> > Israeli children at their birthday parties and at pizza
parlors.
> > Where is the military objective in attacking a 12 year-old
girl's
> > birthday party, or a pizza parlor full of teenagers? Such
> > attacks are clear war crimes and blatant terrorism.
>
> I have seen film of Israeli soldiers deliberately shooting
Palestinian
> children to death. I will never forget the images of the
desperate
> father trying to protect his young son from the Israeli
snipers. Get off
> your moral high horse and understand that Israel is not the
only victim
> of barbarism.
Doug Says:
Colin, you have not seen such films unless they were produced for
propaganda purposes. When I was in Vietnam little children were
given toe poppers (small mines) hidden in cigarette packages,
then they were told by the Communists to give this nice gift to
the American GI's as they passed by their village. I will never
forget the day when a little smiling girl no more than 4 or 5
years old started walking towards me trying to give me a pack of
cigarettes. I was forced to shoot her. I am sure some Viet Cong
somewhere was filming that incident, and the many similar
incidents they forced every day by arming their innoncent
children.
The killing of innocent children is not unusual when the leaders
of these innocent children are using them for their own political
and despicable purposes. Look to your "leaders" Colin, they are
obviously morally corrupt, and it is they that are using the
innocent Palestinian children to kill for them, and be killed in
the process.
You are naive Colin, the Palestinian leadership and the Muslim
Council are the ones indoctrinating all of those innocent
Palestinian children to kill and be killed ...not the Israelis.
>
> > The only similarity to the Nazis in respect to this conflict
is
> > the brutality of the Palestinian terrorists. The Israelis
did
> > not attack the Palestinians, it was the Palestinians that
> > attacked Israel in 1948, 1967 and again in 1973.
>
> The Israeli state uses tactics similar to those that the Nazis
used
> against European Jews. Ghettoisation; mass round ups and
detention;
> indiscriminate killing of civilians; denial of freedom of
movement;
> demonisation of a whole people; military occupation etc etc.
Colin, occupation of an enemy, especially an aggressor enemy is
the same all over the world. The Israelis are trying to stop the
massacring of their civilians. If the Palestinians do not want
to be occupied, then they should stop their war crimes and
suicide bombings of innocent Israeli civilians. You are
complaining about the tactics of a country "retaliating" for the
wanton massacre of its civilians, why don't you complain about
the aggressors in this case instead of the country that is
clearly just trying to defend itself against murderers and
terrorists?
> > Since then it
> > is the Palestinians that have been massacring the Israeli
> > civilians, not the other way around.
>
> Not true. More than 5 times the number of Palestinian civilians
have
> been killed in this current Intifada. More than 10 times the
number of
> Palestinian children ... facts are facts. Whether they agree
with your
> incessant ranting or not.
Doug Says:
You are making my point. The Palestinians are massacring
innocent Israelis, and then using their own civilians as human
shields to protect their weapons and terrorists. Then when some
of those human shields are killed in the process of rooting out
the murderers, you howl and whine the standard Palestinian
propaganda mantra that "more Palestinian civilians have been
killed than Israeli civilians."
Well if the Palestinian leadership were not using children as
suicide bombers, and using them as human shields to hide
terrorists and weapon caches, then of course your "numbers" would
clearly show that many more innocent Israeli civilians are being
massacred than Palestinians. Moreover, not once has the Israelis
"initiated" an attack on any Palestinian area, it has always been
in retaliation to a suicide bombing. So if you do not want the
Israelis to retaliate, then simply stop the suicide bombing. But
that is a subject you and the rest of the Palestinian
propagandists do not which to broach, as you and they duck this
issue each time it is presented.
>
> >
> >
> > All of the misinformation, lies, deceit and fraud in the
world
> > will not change the clear and unmistakable facts of this
issue.
> > Arafat refused the return of the Palestinian lands and the
Camp
> > David accords, and further, it has been the Palestinians
> > attacking Israel, not the other way around.
>
> Camp David was a sham - no right of return, no Jerusalem, no
withdrawal
> to pre-'67 borders. Israel tried to impose a Bantustan on the
> Palestinians. Not acceptable.
Colin, please do not make me post the details of the Camp David
accords. Those accords would have returned 97% of the land to
the Palestinians, and provided them with half control of
Jerusalem to boot, provided the Palestinians simply assured
Israel that no more suicide bombings would occur. The reason it
was "not acceptable" is because Arafat knew the suicide bombings
would never stop regardless of whether the land was returned or
not.
> > This war is clearly not about the return of the Palestinian
land
> > nor the Israeli occupation in defense of itself. This war is
> > about what the Palestinian constitution says it is about;
"The
> > complete annihilation of the Jews and the state of Israel."
I
> > suspect that is yet another similarity between the Nazis and
the
> > Palestinians- proclaimed genocide against the Jews.
>
> Again not true. The Israeli response to the recent Arab League
proposal
> is explicit - NO to peace with the Arab nation. NO to land for
peace. NO
> to the UN Securitys Council resolutions. NO to a political
settlement.
> Sharon, the butcher of Shatilla, wants to kill more Arabs and
to break
> the spirit of the Palestinian people.
>
> He will fail.
First of all Colin, peace with the Arab nations was not offered,
land for peace was not offered. All the Saudis said was that
they would recognize Israel if Israel returned all of the land.
There were no guarantees of peace nor even guarantees of secure
borders as the UN Resolution clearly requires. Moreover, Prime
Minister Sharon said he was willing to negotiate that deal, but
the Palestinians, as usual, do not want to talk about it. They
just want to keep killing Jews, which their constitution and
their Muslim Council and Iranian influences are demanding.
Moreover, Prime Minister Sharon was not even at Shatilla, not to
mention had anything to do with it. Please, stop the propaganda
and the hysterical ravings Colin. Such baseless allegations and
misinformation in respect to known UN Resolutions are destroying
what little credibility you have left.
Doug Grant (Tm)
>
> Colin
>