Illegal or not????
Richard
I keep getting conflicting reports as to the legality of pgp and
encrypted messages on the internet.
1. Is pgp illegal?
2. Is it illegal to send encrypted messages via email?
3. Exactly what is illegal and what isn't concerning encryption on the
internet?
Thanks
Iolo Davidson
In article <4mf577$c...@PaperBoy.LiveNet.Net>
ric...@livnet.com "Richard" writes:
> I keep getting conflicting reports as to the legality of pgp and
> encrypted messages on the internet.
>
> 1. Is pgp illegal?
Not where I live.
> 2. Is it illegal to send encrypted messages via email?
Not where I live.
> 3. Exactly what is illegal and what isn't concerning encryption
> on the internet?
If you are going to ask questions about the law in an
international group, you will need to specify a jurisdiction.
--
SOAPS TURN JOLLY GENTS
THAT IRRITATE TO JITTERBUGS
THEIR MUGS Burma-Shave
Richard Letts
Richard (ric...@livnet.com) wrote:
: I keep getting conflicting reports as to the legality of pgp and
: encrypted messages on the internet.
: 1. Is pgp illegal?
read the Legal Issues section in pgpdoc2.txt that comes with PGP.
: 2. Is it illegal to send encrypted messages via email?
read the Legal Issues section in pgpdoc2.txt that comes with PGP.
: 3. Exactly what is illegal and what isn't concerning encryption on the
: internet?
read the Legal Issues section in pgpdoc2.txt that comes with PGP.
finally, I have no idea where you are in the world; legal issues depends
whereabouts the sender and recipient are in the world.
RjL
Arnoud Galactus Engelfriet
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
In article <4mf577$c...@PaperBoy.LiveNet.Net>,
ric...@livnet.com (Richard) wrote:
> 1. Is pgp illegal?
In what country? In the USA, no. In France, Russia and Iraq, yes.
> 2. Is it illegal to send encrypted messages via email?
No, unless you live in a country where PGP itself is also illegal. It
IS illegal to export PGP from the USA to any country other than
Canada, though.
> 3. Exactly what is illegal and what isn't concerning encryption on the
> internet?
On the Net, there are no laws. But check with a lawyer in your country
to find out what is and what isn't illegal for you where you live.
Galactus
- --
To find out more about PGP, send mail with HELP PGP in the SUBJECT line to me.
E-mail: gala...@stack.urc.tue.nl - Please PGP encrypt your mail if you can.
Finger gala...@turtle.stack.urc.tue.nl for public key (key ID 0x416A1A35).
Anonymity and privacy page: <http://www.stack.urc.tue.nl/~galactus/remailers/>
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Clint Bradford
1. Is pgp illegal?
2. Is it illegal to send encrypted messages via email?
3. Exactly what is illegal and what isn't concerning encryption on the
internet?
Please read the documentation that comes with MIT PGP and make up your
own mind.
Available legitimately from the NCSA Forum on CompuServe, ATD BBS at
909-681-6221...but please KNOW your source before you acquire it from
anywhere else.
clint.b...@atdbbs.com
---
* TLX v4.00 * ATTENTION to Details BBS - 909/681-6221 - EFF/AOP/ASP
Harri Haanpää
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
gala...@stack.urc.tue.nl (Arnoud "Galactus" Engelfriet) writes:
> It IS illegal to export PGP from the USA to any country other than
> Canada, though.
Hmm. Is it also illegal to export PGP from Canada to any country
except the USA? Has Canada also declared PGP to be munitions or
something? That sure would sound weird.
Harri
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Stainless Steel Rat
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
On Sat, 04 May 1996 08:42:38 GMT, ric...@livnet.com (Richard) wrote:
>1. Is pgp illegal?
Not in the United States.
>2. Is it illegal to send encrypted messages via email?
Not in the United States.
>3. Exactly what is illegal and what isn't concerning encryption on the
>internet?
That wholely depends on where you live.
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--
Oh, your standard-issue Big Gun. Equipment Division made it, and now it's
part of my private collection. I was late because I... had to get it.
Stainless Steel Rat
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
On 05 May 1996 13:06:43 +0300, "Harri Haanpää" <Harri....@hut.fi>
wrote:
>Hmm. Is it also illegal to export PGP from Canada to any country
>except the USA? Has Canada also declared PGP to be munitions or
>something? That sure would sound weird.
I do not know if Canada has a law that states that strong crypto is a
munition, but Canada does honor US law concerning this issue. So yes, it
is illegal to export PGP from Canada.
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William Unruh
>>Hmm. Is it also illegal to export PGP from Canada to any country
>>except the USA? Has Canada also declared PGP to be munitions or
>>something? That sure would sound weird.
>I do not know if Canada has a law that states that strong crypto is a
>munition, but Canada does honor US law concerning this issue. So yes, it
>is illegal to export PGP from Canada.
Canada dos NOT honour US law in any catagory. Canada has its own laws,
and honours them.
--
Bill Unruh
un...@physics.ubc.ca
William Unruh
>> It IS illegal to export PGP from the USA to any country other than
>> Canada, though.
>Hmm. Is it also illegal to export PGP from Canada to any country
>except the USA? Has Canada also declared PGP to be munitions or
>something? That sure would sound weird.
The Canadian situation is interesting. Canada has an Export Control
List.
Items on that list require a license to export them. The list includes
cryptography. The list also includes an exemption for "public domain"
software, which is essentially software which is freely available within
Canada. The list also includes all goods originating from the USA which
are otherwise not listed in the Export Control List.
I would argue (and there are posts on this group which have claimed that
this view is not without support within the gov't) that since PGP is
crypto software, and is freely available, it is exportable without a
license. Since the US catagory only includes items not listed elsewhere,
and both crypto software and freely available software ARE listed
elsewhere, this catagory does not apply. But a lawyer might be a better
person to ask, than me, a physicist.
--
Bill Unruh
un...@physics.ubc.ca
NovaLogic
Richard (ric...@livnet.com) wrote:
: I keep getting conflicting reports as to the legality of pgp and
: encrypted messages on the internet.
: 1. Is pgp illegal?
No, You just can't send it to anyone in Iraq or anywhere that the US
dosn't want them to get there dirty littel scum hands on it.
: 2. Is it illegal to send encrypted messages via email?
No, I send PGP e-mail all the time, you can send the e-mail to anyone,
Just not the program its self, or the source code for the program.
: 3. Exactly what is illegal and what isn't concerning encryption on the
: internet?
As far as i know, You can say whatever the hell you want on the internet,
and PGP helps you do that, No laws to stop someone from posting
---PGP message blah--
version:blah
WFHDIEUFOIJFWO+EIJFOIFJWIUG+blah blah blah
---------------------
get it? ;)
Just don't go around posting the program all over.
BTW, Some SysOps of local BBSs don't like PGP, Me and my friends have
been deleted from some boards cuz the sysops couldn't read our private
mail, If you got a prick sysop like this, then find another board, Your
mail is nothing they should _have_ to read, Your not gona be talking
about anything _bad_ on a littel BBS....are you? ;)
: Thanks
welcome ;)
Nova (a.k.a Thomas)
--
*-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=*
|*| The Truth is Out There... |*|
|*| no...@randomc.com |*| no...@205.160.16.20 |*|
|*| PGP Fingerprint |*|
|*| AD 0F 39 75 33 F6 40 D7 |*|
|*| 13 B7 5E EB 72 F7 C1 1C |*|
*=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-*
Polar Bear
Clint Bradford (clint.b...@atdbbs.com) wrote:
Well.. in 'oppressed' (according to the American press anyway) Singapre,
the answer to these questions are:
: 1. Is pgp illegal?
No. PGP has been in popular use by enthusiasts here since the first version
came out about 5 years ago (I think.. my memory is fogging with age).
: 2. Is it illegal to send encrypted messages via email?
No. There is a Private Idaho mirror site here in ftp.nus.sg. E-mail
encryption is perfectly fine here.
: 3. Exactly what is illegal and what isn't concerning encryption on the
: internet?
Over here, the same rules that apply to Internet access (i.e. no pornography,
seditious material, conspiracies to topple the government etc.) apply to
encrypted mail.
So we are a pretty free country despite all those press reports.. *;=)
--
For perfectionists. By perfectionists.
GCS d-- H s+:+ !g p? au- a- w+ !v C--- US+ P? N++ W++ V-- po+++ !5--
tv-- D+ B--- e+ u++ h! f++ r+ n--- x?
Stainless Steel Rat
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
On 5 May 1996 20:20:59 GMT, un...@physics.ubc.ca (William Unruh) wrote:
>Canada dos NOT honour US law in any catagory. Canada has its own laws,
>and honours them.
No, Canada does honor US laws regarding export of munitions, and a number
of other laws. Go look at your own treaties, which are Canadian law, which
state exactly what Canada does honor. Because there is absolutely no way
the US Justice Department would allow export of strong crypto to Canada if
Canada did not honor the US export restriction laws.
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William Unruh
>On 5 May 1996 20:20:59 GMT, un...@physics.ubc.ca (William Unruh) wrote:
>>Canada dos NOT honour US law in any catagory. Canada has its own laws,
>>and honours them.
>No, Canada does honor US laws regarding export of munitions, and a number
>of other laws. Go look at your own treaties, which are Canadian law, which
>state exactly what Canada does honor. Because there is absolutely no way
>the US Justice Department would allow export of strong crypto to Canada if
>Canada did not honor the US export restriction laws.
Sorry, treaties are not laws. As in the USa treaties are encoded into
laws. It is the laws that apply.
The Export Control list is Canada's equivalent of ITAR- regulations
which cover the export of stuff like munitions. What it is is a series
of
articles which cover the license requirements for export of various things.
There is also a general section which requires a license for any goods
not otherwise covered in the list which have US origin and have not been
substantially altered in Canada. This may be what you refer to.
However crypto IS covered elsewhere, and "public domain software" (Note
it explicitely states that copyright restrictions do not remove an
article from the public domain as defined in the ECL) is specifically
exempt. In the case of the export of US origin goods, the ECL states
that one of the things which will help determine whether or not an
article which falls under that section will be granted a license is
whether or not US regulations have been complied with. However as I
said, PGP does not in my opinion fall under that section. And it is
Canadian law which applies in Canada, not US law. Both the gov't and the
courts are very strict about that.
--
Bill Unruh
un...@physics.ubc.ca
Lionel Mamane
"Harri Haanpää" <Harri....@hut.fi> wrote:
>> It IS illegal to export PGP from the USA to any country other than
>> Canada, though.
>Hmm. Is it also illegal to export PGP from Canada to any country
>except the USA? Has Canada also declared PGP to be munitions or
>something? That sure would sound weird.
I never heard of any export restriction in Canada for PGP...
--
Schoinobates Volans (Grand Phalanger Volant - Riesengleitbeutler)
LeRoy D. L. DUVALL, Jr.
Doesn't the recent change in the export ban allow you to export one
encryption program on your laptop?
Don Henson
Lionel Mamane wrote:
> =
> "Harri Haanp=E4=E4" <Harri....@hut.fi> wrote:
> >> It IS illegal to export PGP from the USA to any country other than
> >> Canada, though.
> =
> >Hmm. Is it also illegal to export PGP from Canada to any country
> >except the USA? Has Canada also declared PGP to be munitions or
> >something? That sure would sound weird.
> I never heard of any export restriction in Canada for PGP...
There is an agreement between Canada and the US that says that Canada =
will enforce the ITAR in Canada even though it is a US rule. Go figure! =
-- =
Don Henson, Managing Director (PGP Key ID =3D 0X03002DC9)
West El Paso Information Network (WEPIN)
email: wepi...@colossus.net
Check out The WEPIN Store at URL:
http://colossus.net/wepinsto/wshome.html
Gunnar Schmidt
ric...@livnet.com (Richard) wrote:
>I keep getting conflicting reports as to the legality of pgp and
>encrypted messages on the internet.
>1. Is pgp illegal?
>2. Is it illegal to send encrypted messages via email?
>3. Exactly what is illegal and what isn't concerning encryption on the
>internet?
1. PGP is not illegal.
2. Is it illegal to put letters in envelopes ?
3. Nothing about PGP and encryption on the internet is illegal.
Bye,
Gunnar Schmidt email: gu...@pobox.com
webhome: http://pobox.com/~gusc voice: +49 36461 22661
smail: Jahnwiese 10, H1/608, 98574 Schmalkalden
chat: IRC/Undernet & www.vh1.de:1170 - Ustan
>> "Lebe ich einen Traum oder traeume ich ein Leben ?"
William Unruh
>There is an agreement between Canada and the US that says that Canada =
>will enforce the ITAR in Canada even though it is a US rule. Go figure! =
No (and yes). Canada has something called the Export Control List.
One section states that anything not otherwise in the ECL originating
from the USA and not substantially altered in Canada requires a license
to export. In granting that license, the situtation with respect to
compliance with US regulations wrt that good will be taken into
consideration.
However, that section does not apply to anything elsewhere convered by
the ECL, in particular crypto software. There is also a section which
explicitely exempts "public domain" software from license requirements.
So, no , Canada will not enforce ITAR. They will in certain situations
take ITAR into consideration for US origin goods. Anything produced in
Canada or any other country in the world, or modified "substantially" in
Canada deos not have anything to do with ITAR. Anything already in the
ECL also does not.
--
Bill Unruh
un...@physics.ubc.ca
Marc Thibault
rat...@peorth.gweep.net (Stainless Steel Rat) writes:
> No, Canada does honor US laws regarding export of munitions, and a number
Wrong again. Canada honours the terms of various treaties
(notably COCOM) with the U.S.
The U.S. can do what it wants with its laws; Canada is under
no obigation to honour them.
William Unruh
Actually not even that. Canada honours its treaties by passing laws
which put inot effects its obligations under those treaties. It is the
Canadian law, not the US law, not the treaties, which are operative as
far as Canadian residents are concerned. COCOM obligations are
implimeted in the Export Control List. It is that list which is
operative. And it is highly likely, as I read that list, that PGP is not
under requirement of license for export from Canada.
--
Bill Unruh
un...@physics.ubc.ca
Adam Back
Don Henson <dhe...@1eagle1.com> wrote:
>Lionel Mamane wrote:
>: I never heard of any export restriction in Canada for PGP...
>
> There is an agreement between Canada and the US that says that Canada =
>
> will enforce the ITAR in Canada even though it is a US rule. Go figure! =
I think it is special case.. in that it is not general that Canada
enforces ITAR, just that some regulations with similar effect to ITAR
apply in the special case that the software in question originated
from the US...
So if PGP is imported from the US into, then according to these
regulations it should not be exported from Canada to anywhere else
apart from the US.
What about if PGP is imported from outside the US, say from Stale's
distribution site in Norway into Canada. Can it then be re-exported
from Canada? Don't know tricky ... I'm not sure if the rule applies
to directly imported or whether it just has to originate from the US.
But something like idea (developed in Switzerland) import and export
would be ok in Canada I think, and also it would be ok to export
software developed in Canada from non-US components.
Weird,
Adam
--
#!/bin/perl -sp0777i<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<j]dsj
$/=unpack('H*',$_);$_=`echo 16dio\U$k"SK$/SM$n\EsN0p[lN*1
lK[d2%Sa2/d0$^Ixp"|dc`;s/\W//g;$_=pack('H*',/((..)*)$/) # <- export violation