Recessed Alarm contacts on Andersen Windows
Bill Tews
of alarm contacts to use.
Originally, I was thinking about recessed magnetic contacts, but the
builder said that he thought that drilling into the window might void
the warranty on the windows (Andersen Double-Hung) -- Does anyone know
if this is true? He suggested plunger-type switches, or something
similar that would only require drilling into the bottom of the frame.
I am looking for something that will be completely hidden with the
window closed. I saw the Ademco Recessed Rollerball (956 Series)
switches -- Can anyone comment of if these would be a good choice?
Could I have any problems with the windows sealing tightly (I am in
upstate NY, so it gets COLD)? Any suggestions?
Thanks!
Bill Tews
Robert L Bass
>
> Originally, I was thinking about recessed magnetic contacts, but the
> builder said that he thought that drilling into the window might void
> the warranty on the windows (Andersen Double-Hung) -- Does anyone
> know if this is true? He suggested plunger-type switches, or something
> similar that would only require drilling into the bottom of the frame.
The problem with plunger, roller plunger and roller-ball type switches is
they can get jammed. Ice, bugs, dirt and paint all can make them
inoperable. I would avoid using any moving part sensors. There are a few
alternatives you may wish to consider. Ademco, Sentrol and several other
firms make "rare earth" magnetic contacts. These use a very small but
extremely powerful magnet. The magnets can usually fit into the insulation
track on the bottom of a double hung window.
Following is Andersen's warranty statement. I don't see anything which
voids the warranty if you drill. Sometimes builders get nervous about home
buyers doing their own work so they make claims like yours did. He may also
actually confusing Andersen with some other make.
=== warranty statement from Andersen ===
Andersen Windows, Inc.
Window & Patio Doors
Limited Warranty
Our name means quality...
For over 90 years, we have specialized in manufacturing the highest quality
windows and patio doors. All of the working partners at Andersen are
dedicated to the highest standards of quality which is reflected in our
company's reputation for workmanship, product performance and customer
satisfaction.
Our commitment to you..
This Warranty is our statement of confidence in our products and our desire
to provide you with total satisfaction. In addition, we are committed to
providing you with distinctive customer service. Repairs, maintenance
tune-ups, and replacement parts are available for your Andersen® products -
even after your warranty has expired.
Here's what we'll do...
Even though Andersen® products are of superior quality, they must be
properly installed, used and maintained in order to obtain optimum
performance. If your Andersen® window or patio door does not meet our
product specifications, an Andersen WindowCare Specialist will bring it up
to our quality standards for materials and workmanship. If your Andersen®
product is within the Warranty below, we will provide the warranted remedies
at no charge to you. If beyond the Warranty, we will provide repairs,
replacement parts, or routine maintenance - should you desire - at a
reasonable charge.
Specific warranty coverage...Andersen® Windows and Patio Doors are warranted
in two ways.
Twenty Year (20) Limited Warranty For Glass...
The glass in Andersen factory-glazed sash and door panels (other than
special glazings, Art Glass and certain Flexiframe products) is warranted to
be free from manufacturing defects for twenty (20) years from date of first
purchase or from the glass manufacture date. Insulating glass is warranted
not to develop, under normal conditions, any material obstruction of vision
resulting from manufacturing defects or as a result of premature failure of
the glass or organic seal.
Andersen will provide the replacement glass in sash, door panels, or glass
only (depending on the product type) to the independent Andersen® window
retailer you specify at no cost to you.
Ten Year (10) Limited Warranty For Products & Components Other Than Glass...
All non-glass portions of windows and patio doors are warranted to be free
from defects in manufacturing, materials and workmanship for a period of ten
(10) years from the date of first purchase. During this time Andersen may
elect to either repair or replace any defective Andersen® product for you.
If repair or replacement is impractical, Andersen may elect to refund your
original product purchase price or the original product retailer's list
price (whichever is less).
Repairs will be made and paid for by Andersen. If replacement is elected,
replacement products will be shipped to the independent window retailer of
Andersen® products specified by you.
How to get help...
To obtain help under this Warranty, contact your selling or closest
independent Andersen® window retailer. If no corrective action has taken
place after waiting a reasonable time then write to:
Andersen Windows, Inc.
Customer Service Department
100 4th Avenue North
Bayport, MN 55003.
Please: (a) identify the Andersen® product or glass that is involved, the
date and place of purchase, and the original purchase price if known; (b)
describe completely what the claimed defect is (photographs or sketches are
helpful); (c) identify yourself and those persons who have already been
contacted and state what attempts have been made to correct the problem; and
(d) give the address where the defective product or glass can be inspected.
(e) give a phone number where you can be reached.
Andersen will investigate your claim and within sixty (60) days after
notification take appropriate action. Andersen may charge an inspection fee
for any on-site inspection that is required or that is requested by you. If
it is determined that the product or glass has a defect covered by this
Warranty, the inspection fee will not be charged.
General Conditions and Exclusions...
The limited warranties set forth in this document are the only expressed
warranties (whether written or oral) applicable to Andersen® windows and
patio doors, and no one is authorized to modify or expand these written
warranties.
ALL IMPLIED WARRANTIES INCLUDING MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A
PARTICULAR USE SHALL EXPIRE WITH THESE 20 AND 10 YEAR LIMITED WARRANTY
TERMS. ANDERSEN IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES,
AND ITS LIABILITY SHALL IN ALL INSTANCES BE LIMITED TO REPAIR, REPLACEMENT,
OR REFUND OF YOUR ACTUAL PURCHASE PRICE OF THE DEFECTIVE PRODUCT OR GLASS.
Some states do not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental or
consequential damages, or of how long an implied warranty lasts, so the
above limitations or exclusions may not apply to you.
This Warranty is only applicable in the U.S.A. (i.e. the fifty states and
the District of Columbia). This Warranty gives you specific legal rights,
and you may also have other rights which vary from state to state.
What is not covered by this warranty...
Some things are not covered by this warranty such as: damage caused by
improper installation; use, or maintenance; accident; Acts of God; finishing
(painting or staining); damage to the product caused by water leakage other
than as a result of a defective product or glass; high humidity, slight
glass curvature; minor scratches or other imperfections in the glass that do
not impair structural integrity or significantly obscure normal vision; and
damage to metal surfaces, except corrosion resistant hardware, caused by
airborne pollutants such as salt or acid rain. Art Glass, special glazings,
electric window operators, brass hardware finishes and glass provided or
glazed by others are not covered under this Limited Warranty. Please contact
us for details on backing for these products. Installation of sash or other
components is available at a reasonable service charge through your local
Andersen WindowCare Specialist.
Regards,
Robert L Bass
==========================>
Bass Home Electronics
The Online DIY Alarm Store
http://www.Bass-Home.com
80 Bentwood Road
West Hartford, CT 06107
860-561-9542 voice
860-561-5210 fax
alar...@home.com
==========================>
holger
> I am building a new home, and have been trying to figure out what type
> of alarm contacts to use.
>
> Originally, I was thinking about recessed magnetic contacts, but the
> builder said that he thought that drilling into the window might void
> the warranty on the windows (Andersen Double-Hung) -- Does anyone know
> if this is true? He suggested plunger-type switches, or something
> similar that would only require drilling into the bottom of the frame.
>
Yes, it's true. Drilling holes in certain aluminum windows can void the
warranty. Try contacting the manufacturer.
>
> I am looking for something that will be completely hidden with the
> window closed. I saw the Ademco Recessed Rollerball (956 Series)
> switches -- Can anyone comment of if these would be a good choice?
> Could I have any problems with the windows sealing tightly (I am in
> upstate NY, so it gets COLD)? Any suggestions?
>
They work well. There are other companies making similar ones too.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Bill Tews
H.E.S. Electronics
http://www.heselectronics.com
Selling direct since 1994
In business since 1981
Nick
Hello Bill:
Your builder is 100% correct if he stated "he thought that drilling into the
window _might_ void the warranty on the window". But the same would apply to
drilling the holes for the plunger switches which are generally not recommended
for protecting windows. Nevertheless it is not uncommon for holes to be drilled
in Andersen windows for the installation of recessed magnetic contacts for alarm
protection. Your builder is doing the right thing by warning you of the
potential warranty issue. In most cases properly installed alarm components
will not damage your windows in such a way to result in the need for you to make
a warranty claim against Andersen. You need to decide how you feel about the
slight possibility that you could have a window warranty problem in the future
during the 20 / 10 year warranty period as a result of the holes drilled in
your Andersen windows.
Your should also be aware that ANDERSEN has a specific and detailed written
policy on this issue titled "WARRANTY: ALARM SYSTEMS AND GENERAL INFORMATION".
This written policy which is about one and one half typed pages clearly states a
warranty disclaimer and eight listed guidelines of which the last five start
with "do not drill..." or "do not modify..." and one of the other three
guidelines reads "avoid mounting of contacts in weatherstrip channels or
weatherstrip contact points".
Otherwise Andersen seems to be very fair about their warranty responsibility.
It seems that they simply want to make it clear that they will take into
consideration holes drilled for alarm contacts when reviewing the damage or
defect that you are making a warranty claim for against them.
Best Regards,
Nick D.
ps. Bill good luck with your new home.
david valentine
One is a 690a. The other is a 699 intelligent programmer. It has three modules with it. Alert 2, Alert 3, and Vector 2000.
contact me by email if you need more info.
Jacob Ashbury
guidelines are. Then install almost anything besides roller-balls. I've
installed many roller-balls but they are always a stuck or broken contact
away from a sensor that won't show open when it needs to.
Jake-
Robert L Bass
>
> Bill Tews wrote:
>
> > I am building a new home, and have been trying to figure out what type
> > of alarm contacts to use.
> >
> > builder said that he thought that drilling into the window might void
> > the warranty on the windows (Andersen Double-Hung) -- Does anyone know
> > if this is true?
>
> warranty. Try contacting the manufacturer.
To the best of my knowledge, Andersen doesn't make metal frame casements.
Their warranty says nothing about drilling holes. As for moving piece
sensors, I would avoid using any of them. They tend to jam and that can
lead do disaster.
Regards,
Robert L Bass
==========================>
Bass Home Electronics
The Online DIY Superstore
http://www.Bass-Home.com
80 Bentwood Road
West Hartford, CT 06107
860-561-9542 voice
860-561-5210 fax
==========================>
AZALRM
to. I never have heard any complaints from all that my company has installed.
Moreover, I would recommend that you use alarm screens instead. They are very
popular in quality alarm systems.
rb
Dan Wright
In an integrated environment, the security sensors are often used for HA as
well. In this case if a window or door is open for a period of time, the
HVAC would be turned off. No sense trying to cool the entire Mojave desert
though an open window sort of scenario. That is a bit harder with alarm
screens instead of contacts/switches.
Seems to me that the high end window companies should address how to wire it
in their designs. Something like:
- High end windows go in high end houses
- High end houses have security and/or HA systems
- High end windows should therefore have an easy way to support wired
sensors.
Also sounds like the kind of thing trade associations could be good for.
- Dan
AZALRM <aza...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000128232435...@ng-bd1.aol.com...
AZALRM
fall, ans part of winter allow you to enjoy the fresh air....
RB
Mark Leuck
to that environment, and I've had to yank many out because they had
corroded, gone bad or falsed
Robert L Bass
spline area is sealed they will last much longer (though not forever) in salt
air.
--
Regards,
Robert L Bass
==========================>
Bass Home Electronics
The Online DIY Alarm Store
http://www.Bass-Home.com
80 Bentwood Road
West Hartford, CT 06107
860-561-9542 voice
860-561-5210 fax
alar...@home.com
==========================>
Mark Leuck <mle...@Spamiadfw.net> wrote in message
news:F39C7BB5EC680855.62732AB1...@lp.airnews.net...
: Try installing one near an ocean and watch the fun, they don't lend too well
:
:
Mark Leuck
Robert L Bass <alar...@home.com> wrote in message
news:Ys1l4.925$hT2....@news1.rdc1.ct.home.com...
> Absolutely right, Mark. If you seal the cable connections and if the
entire
> spline area is sealed they will last much longer (though not forever) in
salt
> air.
>
> --
>
> Regards,
> Robert L Bass
Relaying my experiences with 4 dealers on each coast that no matter what you
do, no matter how well you seal them they will not last, this using 3
different screen companies who tried every method known to man with no
success
Personally I'm not a fan of screens anyway, too many possible problems other
than salt water
Mark Leuck
> I defer to your greater experience in salt air. As for screens in
general,
> we've had them on our windows for 13 years now. So far, none has needed
> service. They work reliably, too. My boys found that out the night a few
years
> ago when they decided to "test" their fire escape ladder.
>
> Regards,
> Robert L Bass
Away from a salt-water environment they work fine (although I still am not a
fan)
As long as the people making the screens are reliable thats fine, although
its a pain to find 5 years later that many installations are going bad (like
I found with many Smith installations around here)
Robert L Bass
we've had them on our windows for 13 years now. So far, none has needed
service. They work reliably, too. My boys found that out the night a few years
ago when they decided to "test" their fire escape ladder.
Regards,
Robert L Bass
==========================>
Bass Home Electronics
The Online DIY Alarm Store
http://www.Bass-Home.com
80 Bentwood Road
West Hartford, CT 06107
860-561-9542 voice
860-561-5210 fax
alar...@home.com
==========================>
Mark Leuck <mle...@Spamiadfw.net> wrote in message
news:91B6C8490CAA4683.D344081A...@lp.airnews.net...
:
: Robert L Bass <alar...@home.com> wrote in message
: news:Ys1l4.925$hT2....@news1.rdc1.ct.home.com...
:
:
Robert L Bass
>
> Re: Recessed Alarm contacts on Andersen Windows
>
> Hello Bill:
> Your builder is 100% correct if he stated "he thought that drilling into
the
> window _might_ void the warranty on the window".
The builder can "think" so but that's not what the warranty says.
> But the same would apply to drilling the holes for the plunger
> switches which are generally not recommended for protecting
> windows.
The Andersen warranty excludes damage *caused by* improper drilling. It
does not become void by virtue of the fact that someone simply drills a hole
in it for a magnet. If you happen to drill a hole through the glass, that
will not be covered under the warranty.
> Nevertheless it is not uncommon for holes to be drilled
> in Andersen windows for the installation of recessed
> magnetic contacts for alarm protection.
Yes indeed. Installers and DIY'rs alike drill Andersen windows every day.
Just be careful.
Here's a handy trick for the DIY'r. Most experienced pros are used to
watching the bit so they may not need this. Hold a "stubby" contact magnet
next to the lower horizontal stile of the sash. Check to see that it is
short enough to be drilled into the bottom without hitting the bottom of the
glass "sandwich." Now hold the magnet along the tip of your bit as a guide.
Now wrap one or two turns of white electrical tape around the bit about 1/8"
further down the shaft than the length of the magnet. When you drill into
the bottom stop just as the tape gets real close to the wood.
Note that most modern windows have an insulation strip along the bottom. On
some it is simply a strip of stiff polystyrene or aluminum. These can
usually be slipped out of the guide slot and replaced after the magnet is
installed. Other sashes may have a rubber strip or a brush like device.
Thiese can simply by cut with a razor kniofe, pulled back for the magnet and
then replaced with a dab of silicone sealant (RTV).
I've been doing Andersen windows and many other brands this way for many
years. So far no warranty hassles.
On my web site I have posted a number of FAQ pages so that a DIY'r or novice
installer can learn some of the methods we use to install alarm systems.
> In most cases properly installed alarm components will not
> damage your windows in such a way to result in the need for
> you to make a warranty claim against Andersen. You need
> to decide how you feel about the slight possibility that you
> could have a window warranty problem in the future
> during the 20 / 10 year warranty period as a result of the holes
> drilled in your Andersen windows.
Agreed. You need to decide up front what you feel you can handle. If you
don't think you can do it, get some guidance from an exp[erienced tech.
Still have doubts? Hire a licensed professional who knows the code.
> Your should also be aware that ANDERSEN has a specific and detailed
written
> policy on this issue titled "WARRANTY: ALARM SYSTEMS AND GENERAL
INFORMATION".
> This written policy which is about one and one half typed pages clearly
states a
> warranty disclaimer and eight listed guidelines of which the last five
start
> with "do not drill..." or "do not modify..." and one of the other three
> guidelines reads "avoid mounting of contacts in weatherstrip channels or
> weatherstrip contact points".
I posted the entire Andersen warranty to this news group earlier today. It
is found at the bottom of this post. There was no such wording. Perhaps
this was from an older warranty.
> Otherwise Andersen seems to be very fair about their warranty
> responsibility. It seems that they simply want to make it clear
> that they will take into consideration holes drilled for alarm
> contacts when reviewing the damage or defect that you are
> making a warranty claim for against them.
The Andersen warranty makes no reference whatsoever to alarms or holes
drilled for them. Are you sure you're not thinking of Pella or one of the
others? The warranty also specifically states that there is no other
controlling document, policy or writing. Following is the applicable
clause:
"General Conditions and Exclusions...
The limited warranties set forth in this document are the only expressed
warranties (whether written or oral) applicable to Andersen® windows and
patio doors, and no one is authorized to modify or expand these written
warranties."
Regards,
Robert L Bass
==========================>
Bass Home Electronics
The Online DIY Superstore
http://www.Bass-Home.com
80 Bentwood Road
West Hartford, CT 06107
860-561-9542 voice
860-561-5210 fax
==========================>