Problem With ADT System - Need Advice
aworkinpr...@yahoo.com
system. Back in July ADT installed a Safewatch PRO 3000 in my home and
I've been having false alarms ever since. The home is a three
bedroom cape with PIRs and door contacts only; three door contacts on
the three first floor doors, two PIRs on the first floor which cover
two rooms each, and one PIR in the basement. The way the system was
installed/intended to be used is since there is protection on the
basement level and the first floor and I arm the system "Away" when
out during the day and at night because we sleep on the second floor.
Since this system was installed I have had false alarms just about once
a month, but ALWAYS when we are away and ALWAYS from one of the first
floor motion detectors. I am sure the false alarms are being caused by
our two cats because we never have a false alarm at night which is when
the friskier of the two cats is ALWAYS locked in a bathroom or else he
wakes us up. In addition, none of the door contacts have ever alarmed
and the one PIR they do not have access to in the basement has never
falsed. ADT came out once and changed the two motions but the problem
continued. They came out a second time and agreed the false alarms are
being caused by the cats but can't seem to prevent these without
changing the system around. My argument though is that I paid for pet
immune PIRs and was told they would not false alarm because of where
they were being installed; far enough away from furniture where the
cats could not climb. One time when they came out they tried
"masking" the PIRs but said "an elephant could walk by them and
not set them off" so they didn't do so. The only option they've
provided me with now is to change the PIRs to glassbreaks and to put
contacts on the windows which would cost an additional amount above
what I wanted to spend in the first place. I am going to use that as a
last resort but I really want the system to work as installed so I am
avoiding that route until I've exhausted all other possibilities.
Any ideas? Can I simply replace the PIRs with a less sensitive/more
adjustable device? Are other PIRs even compatible with this system?
Any suggestions/comments would be appreciated.
Crash Gordon
area where the cats cannot get close to them and do more extensive
tweaking - which can be time consuming and a big company like ADT may not
want to spend the time doing this.
When I have a difficult cat situation (if I can't convince the homeowner to
get rid of them:-) the way I deal with tweaking is I turn on the
Chime/Watch Mode for that device. So the pir will beep the keypad when the
cat trips the pir, then I don't have to actually be there all the time. I
tell the homeowner to watch where the cat is going and report to me when
they hear the keypad beep. We can watch this for a few days, in the meantime
I may put that one particular zone on CS test as well so we don't gather a
bunch of false alarms with the pd.
Then I go out and re-mask, tweak, etc.
But...cats ARE difficult...especially more than one.
<aworkinpr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1166971642....@a3g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
tourman
point about ADT not wanting to really bother about solving your
problems. As long as they get your money, that seems to be their major
concern.
Cats ARE a major cause of false alarms. The two rules of thumb whenever
you use pet motions are 1- Don't mount the motion where the cat can get
within six measured feet of the device, and 2 - Don't aim them at
stairs where the vertical motion of an animal running quickly up the
stairs can fool the motion into thinking it's "looking" at a human.
Many situations can be quite tricky, but I have never found a situation
where I couldn' t inevitably solve the problem. Young frisky cats that
chase each other around the house when you are gone seem to cause a lot
of the problems. Fat old cats sleep most of the time and don't usually
cause any problems. Masking so the motion doesn't "see" directly down
often works. If your panel has a double trip feature, that helps too
(zone doesn't go into alarm unless it trips twice within a given time
period). You didn't tell us what make and model of motions you are
using. Some are much better than others. A dual technology motion(
passive infrared with microwave built in) when also designed for
animals, is significantly better than a regular motion with immunity
built in.
All motion detectors are compatible with all makes and models of panels
(assuming they work on the same 12 volts). It's just that big companies
often standardize on certain makes and models and can't or won't
consider anything else. I have had good personal experience with the
Paradox DG75 motions, which I use standard in all installations, pets
present or not, but they may not be commonly available where you live.
Aritech make a very good pet motion (I can't remember the model
number), and the Bosch devices (DS 820 and 835 I think) I have had very
good luck with also. There are many more but these are just the ones
I've used and had good experience with. The most "insensitive" one
seems to be the DT 500 (which I refer to as "moose proof"). It's weight
limit is 100 lbs, and may be necessary if the extreme situation
warrants it.
At this point, you're probably best to try changing the make and model
of motion detector. And whatever you do, put the motions on trial at
the station for a period of time until you're comfortable the problem
is solved, to ensure no false police dispatches. I'm a reluctant ADT
third party dealer, and my experience with their monitoring station has
been anything but good, but you may be able to get them to do this for
you (or not). Something like.."Trialing pet motions; no dispatch of
Zone X for X weeks on single motion alarms alone. Call dealer and
client only"....or something like that.
Simply circumventing the problem with glass breaks and window contacts
might solve the problem, but at considerable extra cost.
Finally, when your contract is over, use your memory of this service
experience to decide if you want to find another company to monitor and
service your alarm.
R.H.Campbell
Home Security Metal Products
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
www.homemetal.com
tourman
RHC
Crash Gordon
"tourman" <rh.ca...@homemetal.com> wrote in message
news:1166978455.7...@i12g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
tourman
DSC panels. Or do you mean, putting in two motions looking at the exact
same area from two different directions, but wired in parallel (so they
both have to trip simultaneously in order to trigger the zone)
I've seen the latter option done on occasion, but in one instance I
heard of, the installer didn't aim them carefully enough at the same
area and someone got by the motion in a real break in. I've always been
pretty leary of using that option ever since I saw that early on in my
installation career.....
RHC
Crash Gordon
I put them in slightly overlapping areas where a burglar would have to cross
through both within a certain amount of time, then use the software
cross-zone feature of the panels I install to set a crosszone time 5sec
10sec whatever seems right. If one zone trips it sends kinda fault, if both
trip within the cross zone time it sends a real alarm. I can even crosszone
a device with itself.
"tourman" <rh.ca...@homemetal.com> wrote in message
news:1166981979.6...@i12g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
tourman
amateur parallel trick. I takeover lots of DSC but only actually
install Paradox. They have a neat feature called "intellizoning"....two
trips needed on one zone during a specified period programmable up to
48 secs max. Works to solve lots of annoying little environmental trips
for no apparent reason, yet set correctly, it doesn't materially
compromise the device in question.
BTW, hear you got hit hard down Colorado way with snow blizzards. We
here in Ontario, are up to 45 degrees, sunny with clear skies and clear
roads. This has gotta be a first time ever I've seen this...hell, I
could ride my motorcycle today if I hadn't put it away....
Sheesh....crazy weather...
RHC
Crash Gordon
I'm not in CO, I can stand the cold...in my twilight years I guess. Im in
AZ...it was beootiful today, right now it's down about 40 but I'm still
wearing short pants everyday :-)
"tourman" <rh.ca...@homemetal.com> wrote in message
news:1166991035.0...@a3g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
Frank Olson
Chances are your system is "wireless", which means you'll have to rely
on ADT to provide you a solution (not every PIR will be compatible).
There are "alternative solutions", but as you mentioned, ADT is probably
unwilling to spend the time/effort in implementing them. Perhaps you
can post the model numbers of the PIRs and we can check with the
manufacturer for you (about finding an alternative compatible detector
for your system). Paradox makes the best pet immune PIR's I've ever
used. (http://www.paradox.ca). We have several installed in our house
and one happens to be looking right at the stairs from the main floor to
the second. The only false alarm we ever got was when she decided to
climb the Christmas tree. Tree fell over. We were in Victoria at the
time, and I had our guard service do a thorough perimeter check. I
figured it was the "stupid cat", what with only one zone in alarm (and
all the glass protected). The cops arrived fifteen minutes *after* the
guard service (and they were there in about ten minutes of getting the
call).
aworkinpr...@yahoo.com
Happy Holidays all!
Thanks to Crash Gordon, Tourman and Frank Olson for your assistance.
I've been checking your responses from time to time over the past few
days and now that the big holiday is behind me I'm going to put some
time into trying to get this resolved.
Here's the deal: The motions are Bosch DS835i Microwave Intrusion
Detector with Pet Immunity. In the room I've had two false alarms from
the closest thing to the motion is a couch. The back of the couch is
just 4 1/2 feet from the motion and at the height of the couch, about 3
feet from the floor. In the room I have had one false alarm from the
closest thing to the motionis again a couch. This time the back of the
couch is 6 feet from the motion and again 3 feet from the floor.
I guess my questions at this point are:
1) Are these distances of 4 1/2 feet and 6 feet too close to warrant
trying a less sensitive motion such as those mentioned by Tourman or by
Frank Olson?
2) Does this system have the "double trip feature" Tourman recommended
or the "cross-zoning" Crash Gordon mentioned? My Google research tells
me this Safewatch Pro 3000 is really an Ademco Vista 20P in disguise.
The double-trip idea sounds like it might reduce false alarms and may
be effective when the house is empty but that it might run the risk of
missing someone coming in during the night and heading straight up to
my bedroom having only tripped the motion once. I like the idea of the
cross-zoning and would be willing to pay to have two additional motions
installed, one to work with each of the two 1st floor motions.
When I say willing to pay I don't want to sound like someone looking to
get something for nothing. I specifically brought up my concerns about
the two cats at the time of installation and the furniture is in the
exact same place it was when the system was installed. I was assured
that the placement and the type of motion detector would prevent false
alarms so I tend to think they are partly to blame for the situation.
I have no complaints about ADT yet, other than the current situation,
they have been very accomodating. I guess their resolving - or not
resolving this problem will be the true test.
Thanks again for your assistance and I look forward to more of it!
Take care.
Roland
immunity feature is not something I fool with often since I don't do that
much residential work. Even if you decide to adjust these detectors to a
faretheewell for pet immunity, once you move the furniture you could be back
to square one. Perhaps a change on the loop response time and/or the cross
zoning as others have suggested would be better. If you have a Vista 20P
there is a cross zone timer and a loop response time adjustment. I don't
know if ADT is up for that or not.
<aworkinpr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1167181993....@n51g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Frank Olson
> Happy Holidays all!
>
> Thanks to Crash Gordon, Tourman and Frank Olson for your assistance.
> I've been checking your responses from time to time over the past few
> days and now that the big holiday is behind me I'm going to put some
> time into trying to get this resolved.
>
> Here's the deal: The motions are Bosch DS835i Microwave Intrusion
> Detector with Pet Immunity. In the room I've had two false alarms from
> the closest thing to the motion is a couch. The back of the couch is
> just 4 1/2 feet from the motion and at the height of the couch, about 3
> feet from the floor. In the room I have had one false alarm from the
> closest thing to the motionis again a couch. This time the back of the
> couch is 6 feet from the motion and again 3 feet from the floor.
The units are hard wired. ADT will have access to the Paradox line
through several distribution outlets in the US. Call your account rep
and tell them you want Paradox DG75's installed at the manufacturer's
recommended height. I can't honestly believe a company like ADT still
think "pet alleys" are the way to go (mounting a motion sensor three
feet off the floor). Your false alarms will disappear.
>
> I guess my questions at this point are:
>
> 1) Are these distances of 4 1/2 feet and 6 feet too close to warrant
> trying a less sensitive motion such as those mentioned by Tourman or by
> Frank Olson?
No. The Paradox DG75 will work. They may have to mask the lens to
prevent it from seeing the couch(es) (or move the sensor to another
location to increase the distance to the couch).
>
> 2) Does this system have the "double trip feature" Tourman recommended
> or the "cross-zoning" Crash Gordon mentioned? My Google research tells
> me this Safewatch Pro 3000 is really an Ademco Vista 20P in disguise.
> The double-trip idea sounds like it might reduce false alarms and may
> be effective when the house is empty but that it might run the risk of
> missing someone coming in during the night and heading straight up to
> my bedroom having only tripped the motion once. I like the idea of the
> cross-zoning and would be willing to pay to have two additional motions
> installed, one to work with each of the two 1st floor motions.
If you can, avoid going the cross-zoning route. In my book, it's the
same as installing a motion sensor upside down and three feet from the
floor. What if the perp "stops" long enough for the counter to reset
between trips?
>
> When I say willing to pay I don't want to sound like someone looking to
> get something for nothing. I specifically brought up my concerns about
> the two cats at the time of installation and the furniture is in the
> exact same place it was when the system was installed. I was assured
> that the placement and the type of motion detector would prevent false
> alarms so I tend to think they are partly to blame for the situation.
> I have no complaints about ADT yet, other than the current situation,
> they have been very accomodating. I guess their resolving - or not
> resolving this problem will be the true test.
The Bosch sensors aren't "pet immune". They're "pet friendly". Two
entirely different philosophies.
Roland
calling the differences in pet "immunity" technology, but immunity is the
word Bosch is using.
http://www.boschsecurity.us/pdf/EN/39681J%20DS835i-DS835iT%20Inguide.PDF
"Frank Olson" <Use_the_e...@yoursecuritysource.com> wrote in message
news:o6kkh.532472$R63.261996@pd7urf1no...
Frank Olson
> Maybe the ADT guys didn't follow instructions. I am not certain what you are
> calling the differences in pet "immunity" technology, but immunity is the
> word Bosch is using.
> http://www.boschsecurity.us/pdf/EN/39681J%20DS835i-DS835iT%20Inguide.PDF
Sorry. I "Googled" for the detector model and one of the first links I
clicked on was an eBay website (not the Bosch one) which referred to it
as "pet friendly". It looked like another "cut and paste job" so I
figured he got it from some Bosch supplied literature. We don't use
them at all. In reviewing the PDF, though, it appears the installer
mounted the units three feet from the floor and upside down. That's a
no-no particularly as the "top view" (which becomes the "bottom" when
the unit's turned around) isn't "pet immune" at all. That could be the
source of all his problems right there.
tourman
exactly how the motion is placed relative to the couch. These motions
should be mounted 7.5 to 9 feet above the floor level. As well, if I
remember correctly, there may be an internal setting that the board has
to be at in order to allow the PIR part of the unit to "see" at the
correct angle. Check the board to make sure it's adjusted for the
correct mounting height of the unit. If the unit is mounted at up at
the correct height on the wall, then 4and a half feet is probably too
close, and six feet only marginal.
Again, without being there to see it, I can only guess to some degree.
Whatever you do, make sure the PIR part is masked so the unit doesn't
"see" down....it only looks in the distance so it looks OVER the top of
the couch.
Try this hoaky little trick. It's not exact, but might give you some
indication of the sensitivity of the location. Kneel on the couch and
move your head from side to side along the top of the couch, as if your
head was actually the cat moving along the top of the couch. Does the
motion trip ? If so, you've likely confirmed that this is the problem
(although your body weight might still be fooling the device) The Bosch
is a good motion detector; it's quite likely the problem is still
placement relative to the couch.
BTW, its not likely that ADT would consider buying Paradox equipment.
Some years ago, the story goes they tried to purchase the company and
the owner wouldn't sell. Since then, ADT( in our area anyway) tell
clients that Paradox is junk !!
Hehehe....don't yah just love "institutionalized corporate stupidity".
R.H.Campbell
Home Security Metal Products
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
www.homemetal.com
Matt Ion
> Cats ARE a major cause of false alarms. The two rules of thumb whenever
> you use pet motions are 1- Don't mount the motion where the cat can get
> within six measured feet of the device, and 2 - Don't aim them at
> stairs where the vertical motion of an animal running quickly up the
> stairs can fool the motion into thinking it's "looking" at a human.
I'll second that. The DSC system that came with our townhouse has a PIR in the
living room, mounted a good 10' off the floor in a corner (ceilings are 16').
It's impossible for a person to cross through the living room without tripping
it, but it's high enough that it's not yet in three years had a false due to our
four cats. The one set of stairs within it's "view" has a 'pony wall' along its
side, so people going up them are picked up, but cats aren't.
tourman
the fact that the motion is so high up on the wall, and when you move
in front of it, you are at quite a distance away from the device. So
it's still sensitive to your body mass, but a small cat at that
distance doesn't register much.
I swear, sometimes I think making pet motions work reliably is one
quarter science, one quarter art, one quarter luck and the other
quarter just plain magic.....:)))
RHC
Roland Moore
I guess Paradox is big up there north of the ditch. No one seems to use it
around here, although a least one parts house here says they sell it (or
would sell it). Since it doesn't have CP-01 sticker (according to my limited
information) it doesn't look like I'll ever find out for myself one way or
the other.
"tourman" <rh.ca...@homemetal.com> wrote in message
news:1167187301....@48g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...
Robert L Bass
> of the ditch. No one seems to use it around here, although a least one parts
> house here says they sell it (or would
I sell Paradox every day. I've also used some of their detectors (mainly the DG75) myself. They work reliably and they're
relatively inexpensive. For more difficult locations (for example, multiple pets) I like the Visonic K-980D. I have not used their
controls though the Magellan series has become quite popular in some areas of the US. One of my clients in Rhode Island has bought
several of them. He installed one in his own house and is not selling them to his own customers. He's just getting his feet wet in
the trade.
--
Regards,
Robert L Bass
=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-866-1100
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
alarman
news:4591ccf9$0$18078$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
> The Bosch DS835i has proved to be a good detector for us over time. The
> pet immunity feature is not something I fool with often since I don't do
> that much residential work. Even if you decide to adjust these detectors
> to a faretheewell for pet immunity, once you move the furniture you could
> be back to square one. Perhaps a change on the loop response time and/or
> the cross zoning as others have suggested would be better. If you have a
> Vista 20P there is a cross zone timer and a loop response time adjustment.
> I don't know if ADT is up for that or not.
Those are the old Detection Systems, right? I used those for a while, but
found they weren't immune to anything but reliability. Certainly NOT pet
immune.
js
Frank Olson
> I guess Paradox is big up there north of the ditch.
What "ditch" are you referring to?? Or are you guys really
contemplating building a moat?
Roland Moore
version. We have them in some hostile environments and they work better than
most other units we've tried. For really nasty spots it is hard to beat the
OD850.
"alarman" <alarm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Zvnkh.182468$HO4....@newsfe06.phx...
Roland Moore
Grande" then the word ditch would come as no surprise.
"Frank Olson" <Use_the_e...@yoursecuritysource.com> wrote in message
news:_pqkh.528134$5R2.291722@pd7urf3no...
tourman
use the 1759MG with the 1641 high end LCD keypad as my "standard"
installation. By and large, my feelings still stand, although lately I
have become a little disillusioned with their wireless products.
They enroll easily, and are very reliable, but when batteries
inevitably go bad, there are problems. If the batteries in a wireless
motion go low, besides sending to the station, the LED will blink to
indicate which one needs the batteries changed. However, with the
smaller door contact, you have no such indicator. The event log will
show you (sort of) which device is low, but the only way to be sure is
to change all the wireless contact batteries (DL 2450 lithium at $3 a
pop). When I took this complaint to their tech support (superb by the
way), I was told there was no room in the chip for that indication - it
was full !! Also, you may have to power the panel down and up again in
order to clear the "RF trouble". But they are still far superior to
DSC's wireless product line (IMO)
I don't use the all-in-one Magellan because of the inherent flaw with
the dialer integral with the keypad. Also, again in my opinion, these
all in one devices are designed to fit a niche, but are not suitable
for whole house security - especially when hardwired panels are so good
and so inexpensive. I have come upon houses that are TOTALLY drywalled,
and where this type of panel is pretty much the only kind it is
possible to install, but I always pass on that business. If I was going
to do them, I would use the GE model, with the dialer separate and in
the basement. I'm getting pretty fussy these days on the jobs I take.
At this point in my business, I'm virtually working for Revenue Canada
anyway, so screw it !! RMR is huge now with over 1000 accounts, and
it's hard to have enough write offs at year end to bring the taxable
income down to manageable levels.
The only other minor problem I've had is with one or two DG75's going
bad and causing false alarms that cost me money. But that's to be
expected with literally 1000's in service I guess.
Paradox will likely never be big in the US because of entrenched bias
towards US companies. However, they are huge world wide in over 41
other countries spread all over the globe. Such is life !!
Cheers !
R.H.Campbell
Home Security Metal Products
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
www.homemetal.com
Robert L Bass
> of Paradox equipment from day
> one, and use the 1759MG with
> the 1641 high end LCD keypad
> as my "standard" installation. By
> and large, my feelings still stand,
> although lately I have become a
> little disillusioned with their wireless
> products.
>
> They enroll easily, and are very
> reliable, but when batteries inevitably
While I was installing I rarely used wireless. Most homes where we worked (southern New England) can be wired by a skilled
technician or DIYer with little or no visible sign that anything has been done. Florida is another situation altogether with
shallow roofs and cement block walls over slab foundations. For existing structures here wireless is the mainstay.
> If the batteries in a wireless
> motion go low, besides sending
> to the station, the LED will blink
> to indicate which one needs the
> batteries changed...
With most installations using from 0 to 5 transmitters (mainly zero), we just made it a policy to replace all batteries whenever the
first one went low. The client spends more on batteries but saves a good deal on service visits. With DIYers it's different. I
just sell them a new battery whenever one fails.
> However, with the smaller door
> contact, you have no such
> indicator. The event log will show
> you (sort of) which device is low,
> but the only way to be sure is to
> change all the wireless contact
> batteries (DL 2450 lithium at $3 a
> pop). When I took this complaint
> to their tech support (superb by
> the way), I was told there was no
> room in the chip for that indication
> - it was full!!...
That's ot surprising, Bob. The chip contains the firmware and often the address. Most alarm manufacturers use the smallest chips
available in order to keep costs down. If a transmitter costs you $30 after distributor profit, shipping (twice) and advertising,
the manufacturer needs to be able to produce it for about $5 or less. By comparison, a $350 (dealer cost) FACP has a typical
manufacturing cost target of arond $90-100.
> Also, you may have to power the
> panel down and up again in order
> to clear the "RF trouble"...
That's a pian and should be addressed.
> But they are still far superior to
> DSC's wireless product line (IMO)...
That isn't saying much. :^)
> I don't use the all-in-one Magellan
> because of the inherent flaw with
> the dialer integral with the keypad...
The primary use of the Magellan is for apartments where virtually no wiring is permitted. Also, some clients rent or own a
residence only temporarily and expect to move within a short time. For them an all-in-one is sometimes a reasonable compromise
between the expense of professional installation, removal and reinstallation or no system at all.
> Also, again in my opinion, these
> all in one devices are designed to
> fit a niche, but are not suitable
> for whole house security...
Absolutely agreed. For long term protection of any substantial structure, wether the installation is by paid professional or DIY, a
wired solution is usually preferable.
> The only other minor problem I've
> had is with one or two DG75's going
> bad and causing false alarms that
> cost me money. But that's to be
> expected with literally 1000's in
> service I guess.
I've sold thousands of those as well and to dat have had almost no problems. Considering the vast majority were DIY installed, I'd
say they're a very reliable detector. Were you able to isolate what had failed on the two bad units?
> Paradox will likely never be big in
> the US because of entrenched bias
> towards US companies...
The funny thing about that is most "US brand" alarm systems aren't made in the USA at all. With the Bush administration offering
tax breaks and other encouragement to companies that outsource to China and India, it's going to take years to correct that problem
(not to mention the destrucvtion of our economy and the horrible toll of hman suffering among our soldiers who were sent to war on a
pack of lies).
> However, they are huge world
> wide in over 41 other countries
> spread all over the globe. Such
> is life!!
Clients who do use them (Paradox) tend to come back for more. I suspect that over time they'll snare a bit more of the US market.
If DSC's service and QC go any firther down the tubes Paradox may take the lead from them.
tourman
> > As you know, I've been a big fan
> > of Paradox equipment from day
> > one, and use the 1759MG with
> > the 1641 high end LCD keypad
> > as my "standard" installation. By
> > and large, my feelings still stand,
> > although lately I have become a
> > little disillusioned with their wireless
> > products.
> >
> > They enroll easily, and are very
> > reliable, but when batteries inevitably
> > go bad, there are problems...
>
> While I was installing I rarely used wireless. Most homes where we worked (southern New England) can be wired by a skilled
> technician or DIYer with little or no visible sign that anything has been done. Florida is another situation altogether with
> shallow roofs and cement block walls over slab foundations. For existing structures here wireless is the mainstay.
RHC: I only use wireless whenever a wired device is impossible to
install, or external wiring can't be hidden satisfactorily. The longer
time it takes to do it hardwired up front usually saves you on later
service costs, as well as being far more reliable overall for the
customer. When I quote using wireless, I always tell the client we will
move mountains to get a wire to the spot, but if we can't, he's already
primed for the extra cost. If we can do it wirelessly, then his bill
goes down, and I've never had a customer complain about that...:))
>
> > With most installations using from 0 to 5 transmitters (mainly zero), we just made it a policy to replace all batteries whenever the
> first one went low. The client spends more on batteries but saves a good deal on service visits. With DIYers it's different. I
> just sell them a new battery whenever one fails.
> > Also, you may have to power the
> > panel down and up again in order
> > to clear the "RF trouble"...
>
> That's a pain and should be addressed.
RHC: Yes, their tech support tells me this will be addressed in the
next version of the Spectra panels coming out. Pretty annoying really.
How the hell would a DIY ever know to do that when even I had to get
that information from tech support
>
> > I don't use the all-in-one Magellan
> > because of the inherent flaw with
> > the dialer integral with the keypad...
>
> The primary use of the Magellan is for apartments where virtually no wiring is permitted. Also, some clients rent or own a
> residence only temporarily and expect to move within a short time. For them an all-in-one is sometimes a reasonable compromise
> between the expense of professional installation, removal and reinstallation or no system at all.
RHC: Agreed, but I see a lot of them shoehorned into larger homes where
they have no business being installed. But still far better than the
unsupervised garbage wireless that companies like Alarmforce put in.
(Gawd, I don't know how they sleep at night !! What amazes me is that
their customers rave about them. Clearly someone is getting sold a real
bill of goods here, or the customers in question are totally uneducated
on proper security equipment, but that's another thread I guess...)
>
> > The only other minor problem I've
> > had is with one or two DG75's going
> > bad and causing false alarms that
> > cost me money. But that's to be
> > expected with literally 1000's in
> > service I guess.
>
> I've sold thousands of those as well and to date have had almost no problems. Considering the vast majority were DIY installed, I'd
> say they're a very reliable detector. Were you able to isolate what had failed on the two bad units?
RHC: Yes, in both cases, the on board relay failed. I suspect it was
fused open by a voltage surge that probably came from a lot of the
severe thunderstorms we had this summer. They caused a lot of damage. I
had to replace 8 panels this summer due to damage to the dialers caused
by high voltage surges. Some of them had door contacts welded shut as
well....a real mess ! Paradox imply that their panel is more immune to
damage from high voltage surges, but my experience shows no difference
from DSC panels.
>
> > However, they are huge world
> > wide in over 41 other countries
> > spread all over the globe. Such
> > is life!!
>
> Clients who do use them (Paradox) tend to come back for more. I suspect that over time they'll snare a bit more of the US market.
> If DSC's service and QC go any further down the tubes Paradox may take the lead from them.
RHC: Well, my stats seem to indicate that they are more trouble free
overall than the DSC panels I have in service...about 600 Paradox
versus about 400 DSC. But they are both good panel lines and seem to
address all the applications that I need in the high end residential
marketplace. It's just that they each have different weaknesses. Now
that ADT calls the shots at DSC, I don't know what that will do over
the long term....no good I suspect !
But...hey...what do I know. I'm just a little guy, and everyone on the
newsgroup tells me I'm running my business all wrong....hehehe...<BSEG>
RHC
RHC
Roland
to make it and run the show. The new DSC stuff is an improvement over the
old no doubt, but I still prefer Inovonics to all others I have tried.news:1167231783.7...@a3g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
Roland
>damage from high voltage surges, but my experience shows no >difference
>from DSC panels.
Bosch (Radionics) panels since the 8112 E have been the only ones I have
used that can take a good bolt of thunder juice and keep on ticking.
Everything else I have tried gets cooked one way or the other. With Napco it
seems like the power supply gets fried more than the Telco does. The worst
were old NelTech panels.
"tourman" <rh.ca...@homemetal.com> wrote in message
news:1167249239.2...@i12g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Frank Olson
> If you've ever been to the U.S./Mexican border and have seen the "Rio
> Grande" then the word ditch would come as no surprise.
Been there. Done that. Seen the movie. Have the poster. "Wrong border."
Frank Olson
> While I was installing I rarely used wireless. Most homes where we worked (southern New England) can be wired by a skilled
> technician or DIYer with little or no visible sign that anything has been done. Florida is another situation altogether with
> shallow roofs and cement block walls over slab foundations. For existing structures here wireless is the mainstay.
Then you're not as "creative" as I thought. Or should I say, your
"creativity" is limited to installation fairy tales, innuendo, and
outright lies...
> With most installations using from 0 to 5 transmitters (mainly zero), we just made it a policy to replace all batteries whenever the
> first one went low.
So you "charged" your customers for batteries you never replaced.
Hmmmmm....
> The client spends more on batteries but saves a good deal on service visits.
Check. I'll make sure to ignore this practice as it no doubt serves to
generate an inordinate number of "false" BBB complaints...
> With DIYers it's different. I
> just sell them a new battery whenever one fails.
And with "zero" transmitters, how do you explain the need for the
battery? "Just buy it anyway, Mr. Smith. It'll keep your account active."
> That's ot surprising, Bob.
It's certainly "ot surprising" to me....
> The chip contains the firmware and often the address. Most alarm manufacturers use the smallest chips
> available in order to keep costs down. If a transmitter costs you $30 after distributor profit, shipping (twice) and advertising,
> the manufacturer needs to be able to produce it for about $5 or less. By comparison, a $350 (dealer cost) FACP has a typical
> manufacturing cost target of arond $90-100.
You really don't know what you're talking about, do you?
> That's a pian and should be addressed.
You're a "pian", Bass. But are you really wearing "a dress"?
>
>
>>But they are still far superior to
>>DSC's wireless product line (IMO)...
>
>
> That isn't saying much. :^)
Hmmm... Yet it's "the panel of choice at BassBurglarAlms"...
> I've sold thousands of those as well and to dat have had almost no problems.
Uh-huh... and "to date" you've had more than "40 problems" although
some have "scrolled off" because the BBB only keeps records for the
preceding three (3) years...
Roland Moore
>towards US companies.
Bosch= German
Samsung=Korean
Geovision=Taiwan
Genetec=Canada
Hochiki=Japan
GE, Honeywell=International
DMP=USA And just who uses that product that posts here? I bet DMP wouldn't
say that there is an "entrenched bias towards US companies", and their
market share proves it.
"tourman" <rh.ca...@homemetal.com> wrote in message
news:1167231783.7...@a3g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
Roland Moore
francophone Canadians, will eventually drive the western provinces of Canada
into the 51st, 52nd, 53rd states and so on. As unremarkable as the gepgraphy
of the southern U.S. border is, so is the one to the north. In each case the
word ditch is the most dramatic description you could give it.
"Frank Olson" <Use_the_e...@yoursecuritysource.com> wrote in message
news:IZGkh.526963$1T2.331245@pd7urf2no...
tourman
Napco, Caddyx and other more commonly known alarm products which,
regardless of where they may be mass produced, are still regarded as US
based panels.
RHC
tourman
I wasn't refering to where a particular product was manufactureed. I
was referring to the habit of most alarm companies to start with a
particular product line and stay loyal to it for the main part of their
business where they actually install panels. Unless they have a bad
time of it with a manufacturer (as happened with the very earliest
version Paradox Esprit panels - under version 2.0), usually they seem
to stay with what they started with. In that sense, their loyalties are
"entrenched", and it would be difficult to sell them a new line of
panels, since this would involve a rather major shift in business
direction.
For example, in my area of North America, both Napco and Caddyx have a
very difficult time of it. Only one dealer I know uses Caddyx, and he
sells it primarily because it would be very difficult for any other
local dealer to "take it over". The only dealer that handles Napco,
gets lots of referrals from the rest of the local dealers because no
one wants to bother taking on an odd ball panel. DSC and Paradox are in
that sense "entrenched" in our local market, and Caddyx and Napco
blocked out. I suspect that Paradox have the same problem selling to
established alarm dealers in the States.
RHC
Mark Leuck
"Roland Moore" <rol...@corridor.net> wrote in message
news:4593712e$0$8970$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
> >Paradox will likely never be big in the US because of entrenched bias
> >towards US companies.
> DSC=Canada
> Bosch= German
> Samsung=Korean
> Geovision=Taiwan
> Genetec=Canada
> Hochiki=Japan
> GE, Honeywell=International
> DMP=USA And just who uses that product that posts here? I bet DMP wouldn't
> say that there is an "entrenched bias towards US companies", and their
> market share proves it.
Also Visonic = Israel
There is no US bias, it's just a matter of distribution which Honeywell and
GE have and Paradox does not (in the US).
Mark Leuck
"Roland" <rol...@corridor.net> wrote in message
news:4592cfb4$0$20031$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
>
> Paradox will likely never be big in the US because of entrenched bias
> towards US companies. However, they are huge world wide in over 41
> other countries spread all over the globe. Such is life !!
Thats about the dumbest thing I've read in ages
Robert L Bass
> what I meant by "entrenched".
>
Agreed. Most dealers will stick with whatever they start with. The funny part is how some of these guys trash a competing product
which they've never used, even when the competing product is better than what they currently sell. Some died-in-the-wool GE
Security / Caddx users swear there's nothing better and swear even louder at Napco even though Napco makes a better, more flexible
panel with features unavailable from GE. Likewise, Ademco die-hards insist their products are great and everything else is junk --
this in spite of the known fact that Loxxon is the greatest... errrm, never mind. :^)
Mark Leuck
>
> For example, in my area of North America, both Napco and Caddyx have a
> very difficult time of it.
Gotta be because of that Canadian "Bias" :)
BTW its spelled "Caddx"
Only one dealer I know uses Caddyx, and he
> sells it primarily because it would be very difficult for any other
> local dealer to "take it over". The only dealer that handles Napco,
> gets lots of referrals from the rest of the local dealers because no
> one wants to bother taking on an odd ball panel. DSC and Paradox are in
> that sense "entrenched" in our local market, and Caddyx and Napco
> blocked out. I suspect that Paradox have the same problem selling to
> established alarm dealers in the States.
>
> RHC
I've seen a lot of people switch from DSC to Caddx a few years ago and
unlike any other brand it's almost a cult following for Caddx, I have no
idea why
Roland
You had to say it. Now Petem is going to want to come and post something to
blame it, bash it, or kill it.
Okay, now that you stirred him up throw Nice=Israel in there too.
"Mark Leuck" <m..leuck@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:QuWdnaoDrJ_Wcg7Y...@comcast.com...
tourman
> "tourman" <rh.ca...@homemetal.com> wrote in message
> news:1167322608.9...@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > For example, in my area of North America, both Napco and Caddyx have a
> > very difficult time of it.
>
> Gotta be because of that Canadian "Bias" :)
RHC: Yup, you're probably correct (even though you find the remark
stupid). I'm sure it works both directions...
>
> BTW its spelled "Caddx"
RHC:Well.... I guess I can spell it about as well as I can program
it....:))
>
I've seen a lot of people switch from DSC to Caddx a few years ago and
> unlike any other brand it's almost a cult following for Caddx, I have no
> idea why
RHC: Maybe because of the same type of "entrenched" thinking. I took
the Caddx course some years ago when the factory rep from Texas came up
here to Ottawa. It's definately a very nice panel, although the board
technology looks about 15 to 20 years old. But if it works, what the
hell ! And my guess would be it's been around long enough for all the
"bugs" to have been discovered and worked out. They also have beautiful
keypads. But like everyone else, I started with Paradox and I'm not
going to change...
The local dealer here ( a riding buddy of mine), also promotes Caddx to
his clients as clearly superior equipment to all other makes. Although
that is quite a stretch, it allows him to charge premium pricing for
the product.
Hmmm.....seems he must have been trained by the same TV "Veg-o-matic
food Chopper" types who started Alarmforce....:))
tourman
backs....:)))
Petem
nerve?
Come on Roland,be fair now,you have much more affinity in your part of the
country with the USA then with us,but still you don't want us to become what
we could be...
is it by because you are afraid of becoming an American?
English Canada as been a part of USA for much more longer then you think,you
just wont admit it
We have our own society here,like no where in America the movie block buster
from the US have as much competition then here from local movie...(google
Bon Cop Bad Cop,La grande seduction,Seraphin...)
Our singer are selling 225.000 album in 3 month in here (Google Gregory
Charles...with less then 6 million French speaking people in the region)yet
yours have difficulty selling 100.000 a year..
we have local TV show making 1 million viewer every week...but we still can
watch Fox Global CBC ABC ect...
We are different and we don't go along pretty well..Just admit it,and let us
go...
"Roland Moore" <rol...@corridor.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
4593730e$0$8981$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
Petem
I don't have anything against Israel product but the one made by there
govt....
I use Visonic stuff and already knew where it was coming from
"Roland" <rol...@corridor.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
45940fe2$0$16712$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
Petem
"Mark Leuck" <m..leuck@comcast.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
cPidnYUKB9WFbQ7Y...@comcast.com...
Roland
use. The actions of government where it comes from doesn't matter to me. I
take little notice of their actions. I feel that the Israeli government can
get along fine without my approval (or disapproval.) I thought you could
identify with a group of folks that have to struggle everyday to maintain
there own way of life. Of all people I thought you'd be more understanding.
"Petem" <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bwZkh.6038$e11.1...@weber.videotron.net...
Roland
I am an American. If you support a group that wants to take a separate
political path, I can only remind you that is something many American States
tried from 1861-1865. The nation held together. What future Canada has is up
to Canadians. If the shoe was on the other foot, I would not welcome any
comments from foreigners one way or the other.
However I wouldn't be surprised if the other Provinces in Canada hired the
Mexican Army to go kick your collective French speaking asses back in line.
Since France wouldn't want any more French Canadians after that defeat, you
could get the Mexicans to teach you enough Spanish to let you make it in
Spain long enough to sneak across the border into France. The Mexicans do
have some skill in the area of illegal border crossing to teach as well.
"Petem" <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7sZkh.6037$e11.1...@weber.videotron.net...
Robert L Bass
> Cripes, don't start that one or we'll
> have Professor B on our backs....:)))
He's more entertaining than some of the morons we have now.
Mark Leuck
> Come on Roland!
>
> I don't have anything against Israel product but the one made by there
> govt....
>
> I use Visonic stuff and already knew where it was coming from
Funny you never mentioned the government, only about killing a jew
Petem
language...
You have a very strange way of thinking,what make you think that the rest of
the world community would not recognize us as a nation..
And all this thing about the Mexican..Hum look like you do have a problem
with foreign nation that stand in front of the mighty America...
"Roland" <rol...@corridor.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
459471ee$0$2267$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
Petem
My first comment about having the feeling to go there and kill a Jew that
live in Israel was cause they were bombing innocent people...People that
live in Montreal...
the second time it was more to show how I was disgusted by the support that
you all give to a country that do more terrorism then all the terrorist over
the world,a country that was created after the use of terrorism,to make
things happen
But that you could not understand,the only one that can suffer from loosing
people to there country by terrorism is the mighty USA,and Israel;all other
have to shut up
"Mark Leuck" <m..leuck@comcast.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
fLKdnQ4gAoi5HQnY...@comcast.com...
Mark Leuck
> Have you ever typed something when in you were feeling rage?
Yea but it never mentioned wanting to kill people
> But that you could not understand,the only one that can suffer from
loosing
> people to there country by terrorism is the mighty USA,and Israel;all
other
> have to shut up
It would be nice if they did
Petem
>
> "Petem" <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:kralh.12224$e11.2...@weber.videotron.net...
>> Have you ever typed something when in you were feeling rage?
>
> Yea but it never mentioned wanting to kill people
you have more control...
or you lie? have you ever said that Afganistan should be bomb ?
>
>> But that you could not understand,the only one that can suffer from
> loosing
>> people to there country by terrorism is the mighty USA,and Israel;all
> other
>> have to shut up
>
> It would be nice if they did
Too bad for you they wont
Roland Moore
> language...
I have not used French since we had a foreign exchange student from France
when I was in High School. I use the translator to make certain I still
can't understand the French (or French speakers) any more now than I did
then.
Actually I am having a bit of fun at you're expense, if you haven't noticed
yet, because a good deal of your English seems like it came from an on line
translator. Unless you're trying to speak Pidgin English, then it's perfect
I guess.
> You have a very strange way of thinking,what make you think that the rest
of the world community would not recognize us as a nation..
The same reason that Taiwan is not recognized as a nation. It depends on
what Quebec has to offer other nations, and it seems like the answer is not
much. If the other Provinces of Canada don't want to allow other countries
to acknowledge Quebec, then I don't think other countries would. If you
missed geography, let me remind you you're not an island nation.
Furthermore you have a tiny population and you don't have the bomb. It would
be funny to see folks like you who tell the U.S. and other nations like
Israel that they're mostly arrogant POS and then when you need them it's
"Help, Mr. Wizard!"
>And all this thing about the Mexican..Hum look like you do have a problem
with foreign nation that stand in front of the mighty America...
I think the Mexican Army could use some target practice. The French or
French Canadians can't and/or won't fight; and if we kicked your ass we'd
have to support you afterwards. The Mexicans would just kick you ass and
leave. And maybe they would teach you how to cook something other than
snails and goose liver. Mexican food is pretty good. We have a lot of
Mexican food restaurants here. French restaurants? Not so many.
"Petem" <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Ckalh.12048$e11.2...@weber.videotron.net...
I brive a dus
Mark Leuck
>
> "Mark Leuck" <m..leuck@comcast.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
> irCdnbSwDo5KqgjY...@comcast.com...
> >
> > "Petem" <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:kralh.12224$e11.2...@weber.videotron.net...
> >> Have you ever typed something when in you were feeling rage?
> >
> > Yea but it never mentioned wanting to kill people
>
> you have more control...
Its not a question of control, if your first instinct is to want to kill
someone then you've got a problem
> or you lie? have you ever said that Afganistan should be bomb ?
No, why would I?
>
> >
> >> But that you could not understand,the only one that can suffer from
> > loosing
> >> people to there country by terrorism is the mighty USA,and Israel;all
> > other
> >> have to shut up
> >
> > It would be nice if they did
>
> Too bad for you they wont
Thats okay, it keeps everything interesting
Robert L Bass
We had a foriegn exchange student from Germany. She "frenched" too. :^)
> Unless you're trying to speak Pidgin
> English, then it's perfect I guess.
He's not *trying to* speak pidgin English. Pigeon is his native tongue.
> The same reason that Taiwan is not
> recognized as a nation. It depends on what Quebec has to offer other nations,
> and it seems like the answer is not much...
Perhaps even less than that.
Roland
"tourman" <rh.ca...@homemetal.com> wrote in message
news:1167333677....@n51g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Robert L Bass
A fictional "expert" who supposedly designed of the infamous "Lox-o-Matic".
tourman
RHC
http://www.webspawner.com/users/LOXXON/
Robert L Bass wrote:
> > Professor B?
>
> A fictional "expert" who supposedly designed the infamous "Lox-o-Matic".
Roland
> Walls.
I see. It says it is secured. Secured from what exactly? Sounds like a
sales pitch from Saddam's old press guy Baghdad Bob.
If this is not a gag or hoax, am I to believe this is a giant capacitance
type alarm?
"tourman" <rh.ca...@homemetal.com> wrote in message
news:1167429934....@i12g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I brive a dus
tourman
it was another version or a like product of the old ultrasonic type
alarms that were marketed here in North America under the tradename
Quorum. He was in here a few years ago peddling this shit. Eventually
he gave up and left. Junk then and even more so now that professional
quality alarm equipment is so affordable and so available everywhere.
BTW, did you notice the main links on the site no longer work. Matches
the product perfectly !
RHC
Robert L Bass
> the site no longer work. Matches the
> product perfectly !
Heh, heh, heh... :^)
Petem
>> Roland you should not use online translator when you want to use another
>> language...
>
> I have not used French since we had a foreign exchange student from France
> when I was in High School. I use the translator to make certain I still
> can't understand the French (or French speakers) any more now than I did
> then.
Good for you! that just proove a point,learning another language is not
something that every one can do...
> Actually I am having a bit of fun at you're expense, if you haven't
> noticed yet, because a good deal of your English seems like it came from
> an on line translator. Unless you're trying to speak Pidgin English, then
> it's perfect I guess.
>
Most of the post i send are sent either early in the morning or very late at
night,when i am very tired or i didnt took my first coffee,that must explain
some of my "typo"
> > You have a very strange way of thinking,what make you think that the
> > rest
> of the world community would not recognize us as a nation..
>
> The same reason that Taiwan is not recognized as a nation. It depends on
> what Quebec has to offer other nations, and it seems like the answer is
> not much. If the other Provinces of Canada don't want to allow other
> countries to acknowledge Quebec, then I don't think other countries would.
> If you missed geography, let me remind you you're not an island nation.
So based on that,USA should have never been a country..same for much of the
country in south America,and what about Canada?why is there a border?The
fact of Quebec not being an island nation doesnt compute here,many country
are not island if not most,and even some island have more then one country
in it,just look at Haiti and the Dominical republic...
Now let check who's the one that missed geography lesson...
Taiwan,is under control of a large totalitary country,China,totally
different then here..And even if China control Taiwan,many country
recognized taiwan as a country...It didnt help,but it did happen...
> Furthermore you have a tiny population and you don't have the bomb.
so now,the fact of having THE bomb is the only thing that could help us,ok
fine,we do have uranium,we know how to enriche it,and we even have nuclear
reactor,and the know how to build more...lets build it!
>It would be funny to see folks like you who tell the U.S. and other nations
>like Israel that they're mostly arrogant POS and then when you need them
>it's "Help, Mr. Wizard!"
Hey! Me I wont and will never ask you anything,and most here will do the
same,dont worry,we wont need you..in fact you know it and thats the most
scary part for you....
BTW we now have oil,yup you read it well,we have oil,not even offshore,it is
in the gaspesie region,in the same region we have coal,we have gold in the
north [art of Quebec,uranium,just beside it,platine at the same time,and we
have our most precious element,water,we can make electricity,lots of it for
cheap...too bad we dont have much to offer...
>
>>And all this thing about the Mexican..Hum look like you do have a problem
> with foreign nation that stand in front of the mighty America...
>
> I think the Mexican Army could use some target practice. The French or
> French Canadians can't and/or won't fight; and if we kicked your ass we'd
> have to support you afterwards. The Mexicans would just kick you ass and
> leave. And maybe they would teach you how to cook something other than
> snails and goose liver. Mexican food is pretty good. We have a lot of
> Mexican food restaurants here. French restaurants? Not so many.
>
you know what? the mexican would just be more then happy to help,us! not
you....they would even be more happy to have another country telling you to
shut up...you know,telling other one to site and wait till you have some
time for them,while they really need a good neigbourg,leave bad taste in the
mouth of many...finding a way to remove some bad taste is much apreciated
sometimes...
That bad taste could be remove by eating something else then hamburger and
hot dogs...
Petem
"Robert L Bass" <rober...@comcast.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
pcGdnRx10N91-QjY...@comcast.com...
>> I have not used French since we had
>> a foreign exchange student from France...
>
> We had a foriegn exchange student from Germany. She "frenched" too. :^)
surely not with you!!!
>
>> Unless you're trying to speak Pidgin
>> English, then it's perfect I guess.
>
> He's not *trying to* speak pidgin English. Pigeon is his native tongue.
>
>> The same reason that Taiwan is not
>> recognized as a nation. It depends on what Quebec has to offer other
>> nations,
>> and it seems like the answer is not much...
>
> Perhaps even less than that.
another one that need to review his geography....
Petem
>
> "Petem" <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:B%alh.12585$e11.2...@weber.videotron.net...
>>
>> "Mark Leuck" <m..leuck@comcast.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
>> irCdnbSwDo5KqgjY...@comcast.com...
>> >
>> > "Petem" <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> > news:kralh.12224$e11.2...@weber.videotron.net...
>> >> Have you ever typed something when in you were feeling rage?
>> >
>> > Yea but it never mentioned wanting to kill people
>>
>> you have more control...
>
> Its not a question of control, if your first instinct is to want to kill
> someone then you've got a problem
Nope i have what we call here latin blood....something you could not
understand...
>
>> or you lie? have you ever said that Afganistan should be bomb ?
>
> No, why would I?
>
911?
>>
>> >
>> >> But that you could not understand,the only one that can suffer from
>> > loosing
>> >> people to there country by terrorism is the mighty USA,and Israel;all
>> > other
>> >> have to shut up
>> >
>> > It would be nice if they did
>>
>> Too bad for you they wont
>
> Thats okay, it keeps everything interesting
>
>
So why hoping the inverse? unless that's not what you wanted to say..."It
Mark Leuck
>
> "Mark Leuck" <m..leuck@comcast.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
> U_GdnQY27pz2_QjY...@comcast.com...
> >
> > "Petem" <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:B%alh.12585$e11.2...@weber.videotron.net...
> >>
> >> "Mark Leuck" <m..leuck@comcast.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
> >> irCdnbSwDo5KqgjY...@comcast.com...
> >> >
> >> > "Petem" <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >> > news:kralh.12224$e11.2...@weber.videotron.net...
> >> >> Have you ever typed something when in you were feeling rage?
> >> >
> >> > Yea but it never mentioned wanting to kill people
> >>
> >> you have more control...
> >
> > Its not a question of control, if your first instinct is to want to kill
> > someone then you've got a problem
>
> Nope i have what we call here latin blood....something you could not
> understand...
Thats an excuse for mental illness
Roland Moore
Hot Blooded Latin = mental illness - with high fever included for free.
"Mark Leuck" <m..leuck@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:sfKdnWwDKNipbAjY...@comcast.com...
Roland Moore
something that every one can do...
Well don't come here then if you don't want to learn how to speak Spanish
>Now let check who's the one that missed geography lesson...
The geography lesson was to remind you of not what is within the borders of
Quebec, but what is outside. The island idea is to remind you that if your
neighbors (including the U.S.) don't allow rail, air or ship and barge
traffic to you guys then you're dead. If Quebec was an island then you could
get access to supplies without interference from any neighbor. There is
nothing you can or could do about getting supplies in or out since you can
whip your Canadian neighbors or the U.S. Please don't let that stop you
though. Start the war anytime you like. I hope there is a good French recipe
for a coal and uranium sandwich, because that might be all that's left on
the menu once you decide you're a nation. Produce what you want and keep it
all to yourselves. Make all the bombs you want and test them thoroughly
right there in Quebec until the whole place glows.
"Petem" <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:vWllh.32722$e11.3...@weber.videotron.net...
Matt Ion
> BTW, its not likely that ADT would consider buying Paradox equipment.
> Some years ago, the story goes they tried to purchase the company and
> the owner wouldn't sell. Since then, ADT( in our area anyway) tell
> clients that Paradox is junk !!
I'm glad they didn't - Paradox has been awesome to me. When I needed C-form
dome PIRs (well actually, I just needed one with a NO contact), Burtek didn't
have any in stock and wanted a minimum order of 200 to get them in. I contacted
Paradox to ask if they could suggest another local distributor, or provide me
schematics for the one I had so I could modify it appropriately, or even just
sell me one directly...
Instead, they apologized for the hassle and promised to send me one for free.
When the box arrived, there were five of them. Considering it probably only
cost them about $10 each, that's a lot of good will, customer loyalty, and
publicity (for those of you reading this message ;) to get for a measley $50.
Roland Moore
"Matt Ion" <soun...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:VkAlh.543136$R63.386313@pd7urf1no...
tourman
(and who's equipment is perfect), I have nothing but the best to say
about this company. You and I are their customers, and they are smart
enough to realize that, just as I'm sure you and I treat our own
customers the exact same way. And given the fact that they are a large
company, good personal customer service from them approaches the level
of a near miracle. !!!!!!
Their tech support is damn good as well. I remember sending them a
technical question at about 1pm on a Sunday, thinking I would have to
wait until at least Monday or Tuesday to receive an answer. A thorough
and detailed response was on my computer by 3pm that same day....
Credit where credit is due. I hope they never sell out to some bottom
feeder....
RHC
Russell Brill
"tourman" <rh.ca...@homemetal.com> wrote in message
news:1167519930....@48g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...
tourman
old memory will allow me, I think it's always been 433 MHZ stuff (but
don't quote me on that point). They only came in lately with dedicated
compatible wireless for their panels (as far as I can remember), so I
don't believe they ever made 900 MHZ stuff. I know their current stuff
is pretty good, and other than the usual battery changing crap, it
doesn't give much trouble. Have had a bit of difficulty with getting
rid of RF Trouble indicators (sometimes have to power down / power up
like the DSC stuff), but overall, it's FAR better than DSC's junk !!
Only other issue is if you have a number of the smaller door/window
contacts, and one of the batteries goes bad, there is no way at the LCD
keypad to see exactly what zone is in trouble. So you end up having to
change all the DL 2450 3.0 volt batteries in all the small door and
window contacts.However, if you can access the event log from your
laptop, it will show you which expansion input the trouble is on, so
you can correlate that with the appropriate zone. But that's a pretty
stupid way to do things. Small point I think, but irritating as
hell....
I generally avoid all wireless like the bubonic plague, so I don't have
a whole lot out there. But what I do have of the Paradox stuff seems to
work OK.
RHC
Robert L Bass
frequencies they built an RF receiver that can work with either. That way your existing installations won't become obsolete. Kudos
to Paradox for that one.
--
Regards,
Robert L Bass
=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-866-1100
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
Russell Brill
the North American equipment...
"tourman" <rh.ca...@homemetal.com> wrote in message
news:1167529019.0...@h40g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Petem
> >Good for you! that just proove a point,learning another language is not
> something that every one can do...
>
> Well don't come here then if you don't want to learn how to speak Spanish
>
>>Now let check who's the one that missed geography lesson...
>
> The geography lesson was to remind you of not what is within the borders
> of Quebec, but what is outside. The island idea is to remind you that if
> your neighbors (including the U.S.) don't allow rail, air or ship and
> barge traffic to you guys then you're dead.
Funny you talk about ship...Have you ever noticed that a small river pass
true Quebec,the St-laurence river,and do you know where that rivergoes?the
answer is the great lakes...and what's on the great lakes?|Hummm port,maybe?
and were are lcated those port...well, lets say WE decide that ship pass on
OUR river...that would be nice no?
or even better we could ask for a lot of money for the right of passage....
And legally all of this is ok,and in front of any international court we
would won,and if some bozo,s leading some country try to invade,to take
control,the international community would not allow,and help us,especialy if
a big part of that community received from Quebec an alliance deal (one
thing we are allready disscusing is being part of the europeen community...)
> If Quebec was an island then you could get access to supplies without
> interference from any neighbor.
An illegal blocus!!! LOL,come on Roland think,think....
Being our own country,does mean going to war with our neighbor,and under
what fucking right any country would make an illegal blocus on a small
neighbor,with out having a lot of problem on the international level,things
like that can put fire to powder,and can put one country under the avok of
all the other....
>There is nothing you can or could do about getting supplies in or out since
>you can whip your Canadian neighbors or the U.S. Please don't let that stop
>you though.
BTW,one othe thing you dont seem to understand,we grow more here then we
need,80% of the pork we produce is for exportation,we could live just on
that...well most of us,some would have to choose something else,or change
religion ;-)
> Start the war anytime you like. I hope there is a good French recipe for a
> coal and uranium sandwich, because that might be all that's left on the
> menu once you decide you're a nation. Produce what you want and keep it
> all to yourselves. Make all the bombs you want and test them thoroughly
> right there in Quebec until the whole place glows.
Who talked about starting a damn war?you stated that we dont have anything
to help us become a county,and that we needed THE bomb,well now that i
prooved to you we COULD do it,now you wan it,nope we are not war monger,like
the american and we are not looking for any wars,but we could if in need
deffend ourself...
But you know what,what i think will happen when we become
souvreing,something very simple will come,since we are in a strategic part
of the northern hemisphere (south border of the north passage in antartica)
offer of alliance will come from both the south and the north east...
this would be wise to do,but how knows will be at the white house,when that
will happen ;-)
Robert L Bass
> be available in Europe, 433mhz must be the North American equipment...
I'm not so sure about that. However, I erred in a prior post on this subject. The receiver is apparently capable of receiving one
*or* the other frequency. I'm not certain it can receive *both* simultaneously.
Roland Moore
Do you think you'll have to consider whether or not your buddies in
Newfoundland and Labrador, as well as Novia Scotia will let your ships go
anywhere before you worry about anything else. Until then I guess the world
will have to live in terror wondering what the vicious rowboat Navy of
Quebec is going to do to restrict the maritime commerce of other nations. I
guess the Quebec version of an aircraft carrier is a dinghy where you throw
a big Canadian Goose off of the prow, (you know "flip them the bird") of
course loaded with firecrackers just to prove you mean business. Since
you're a small nation you might have to start a draft to get everyone to
take their turn a rowing the dinghy. It's a good way to get rid of the extra
pounds from too much snail and garlic butter.
By the way, thanks for the geography lesson, especially this one below.
>(south border of the north passage in antartica)
Wow! In English, is that the "Southern border of the nothern passage of
Antarctica" you are talking about?
First I guess you'll need a permission note from where? The folks in Tierra
Del Fuego or Hobart?
I love your posts, seldom informative but nearly always entertaining. It is
none of my business, but I would bet the rest of Canada wants to get rid of
you guys far worse than you want to be let go.
"Petem" <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ohRlh.6301$Rg5....@weber.videotron.net...
Robert L Bass
> aircraft carrier is a dinghy where
> you throw a big Canadian Goose
> off of the prow, (you know "flip them
> the bird") of course loaded with
> firecrackers just to prove you mean
> business.
You're confusing the Qubec Royal Navy with the SS Jiminex.
Jim
Hey, ya know what? We're just beginning to make plans to
start on a trip down the east coast come the end of next
summer. We'll be leaving the boat at various ports during the
trip while we return home, but if it just so happens that you
die about the time we reach Florida, we might be able to
make arragements to bury you at sea, with all the honors.
(That would be a six guy urination off the the side of the boat
ummmm ..... or one guy .... six times.)
But then again, don't let that stop you from kicking the bucket
before then. Be sure to let us know when you get your final
notice from the Onconogist.
Petem
> >small river pass true Quebec,the St-laurence river
>
> Do you think you'll have to consider whether or not your buddies in
> Newfoundland and Labrador, as well as Novia Scotia will let your ships go
> anywhere before you worry about anything else.
What you dont seem to gasp is the fact that those buddy are not american war
mongers..
and one other thing is that if our ship cant pass..there,s wont pass
either...
the river is not large enough to prevent simple short range rocket to hit
any ship passing by..
and what you dont seem to gasp is that the St-Laurence river is passing
right biside Montreal,Quebec,Trois-Riviere all major city's in
here..preventing all attacks on foreign ship will be impossible..leading to
something called treaties...
and just to remind you that on the same path,ship that goes to small port
like Detroit,will have to pass on our territory,if there is no agression
first,from you,they will pass freely,but just try to stop us,and they wont
make it....
> Until then I guess the world will have to live in terror wondering what
> the vicious rowboat Navy of Quebec is going to do to restrict the maritime
> commerce of other nations.
Snip the kids like talk..
>
> By the way, thanks for the geography lesson, especially this one below.
>
>>(south border of the north passage in antartica)
iTs kind of difficult o make it simple enough for you to understand it,but i
will make a longer aproach to that so that your 3 neron's will be able to
grasp it..
we are at the south of the maritime passage called the north passage that
goes from the atlantic to the pacific passing in antartica...
is that clear enough?
or do you want a sketch? kids like them...
> I love your posts, seldom informative but nearly always entertaining.
and your post are much more fun to read,they proove to the world that most
american (specialy the one in the south)are as dumb as the hilbilly's on the
tv are...
>It is none of my business, but I would bet the rest of Canada wants to get
>rid of you guys far worse than you want to be let go.
>
Could it be that our strategy is working?
Tommy
folk. I got indoor plumin just the other day.
All kidding aside, some of the greatest Americans came from the South,
including some fantastic authors. i am sure that they (and I) can spell
"especially"
"Petem" <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:14Amh.64072$Rg5.5...@weber.videotron.net...
Petem
"Tommy" <tommy at leesecurity.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
12plqoa...@corp.supernews.com...
> All kidding aside, some of the greatest Americans came from the South,
> including some fantastic authors. i am sure that they (and I) can spell
> "especially"
Yup but I am sure you cant spell it in French with out having to resort to
an online translator....
Roland
>i will make a longer aproach to that so that your 3 neron's will be able to
>grasp it..
>we are at the south of the maritime passage called the north passage that
>goes from the atlantic to the pacific passing in antartica...
Okay Petem here goes for your first geography lesson:
The top of the world = Arctic. Near the North Pole or to the North of the
Arctic Circle. That is where you find polar bears and French Canadians.
Bottom of the world = Antarctica. (NOT antartica like you keep calling it
over and over) It is the continent surrounding the South Pole. That is where
you find penguins and people glad to be far, far away from French Canadians.
So you have a new passage from Quebec going from Atlantic to Pacific to the
SOUTH pole? I know weed is almost legal there in Canada, but even Cheech and
Chong couldn't keep up with you I bet.
> and your post are much more fun to read,they proove to the world that most
> american (specialy the one in the south)are as dumb as the hilbilly's on
> the tv are...
Just like the credit card commercials say:
Telling someone they're a Hillbilly idiot on a NG, free. Misspelling nearly
every word writing the Hillbilly insult, including Hillbilly? Priceless.
I'll say it again;
I love your posts, seldom informative but nearly always entertaining. In any
language I'll add.
"Petem" <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:14Amh.64072$Rg5.5...@weber.videotron.net...
Doug
charge for a service call to replace a battery.
Doug
--
"Robert L Bass" <rober...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:p5idnWh4sYuzAQ_Y...@comcast.com...
> With most installations using from 0 to 5 transmitters (mainly zero), we
> just made it a policy to replace all batteries whenever the first one went
> low. The client spends more on batteries but saves a good deal on service
> visits.
>
> Regards,
> Robert L Bass
>
Petem
low level scum..
yeah your right I don't type as clean as a born American,but what I do know
is that I can point on a terrestrial sphere all the country of the modern
world,and most of the old world,(that mean Europe and Asia if you didn't
know)and about 30 of the state of your so great country,same with all 10
province and 2 territory,while most of your fellow American friend cant even
find Washington,the city not the state,and its there capital,you don't even
have a damn clue about the geography of the country north of yours,not
surprising that your president was thinking there was WMD in Iraq,he was
looking at Korea info...
And about Antarctica and Arctica,yup I did mix both of them,the trouble is
with dyslexia not about not knowing what I am talking about...
You know that for me it make more sense to call a continent Arctica and the
inverse ocean Antarctica,but I was not the one that decided it..but I am
pretty sure I was an American decision..
"Roland" <rol...@corridor.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
459af9fa$0$8933$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
Robert L Bass
> service visits ? surely you didn't charge
> for a service call to replace a battery.
Other than after a major storm, we charged $40 for the visit. Yuasa NP712 batteries used to cost us about $22. We marked them up
30%. Now they cost about $15 or $16.
Roland
> having to resort to spelling error to prove someone wrong....tactics of a
> low level scum..
> pretty sure I was an American decision..
They did it just to mess with French Canadians, especially the ones with
dyslexia.
Don't believe all that nonsense about the ARC part coming from any longitude
and latitude reference of the Arctic circle.
By the way Antarctica is still around, but Arctica formed a few billion
years ago and has since disappeared; pieces of it are still around in
Greenland, Northern Canada, and Siberia.
"Petem" <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:IlGmh.65444$Rg5.7...@weber.videotron.net...
Tommy
"Petem" <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:uGCmh.64112$Rg5.6...@weber.videotron.net...
Petem
second language will become obvious to you,but it maybe to late when you
figure this out..
just to make it clear,if its not already clear enough,my first language is
French,I can communicate with people that have 2 cent of good will in
English,and can follow a conversation in Spanish if the speed if not too
fast..(need a lot more practice..)
"Tommy" <tommy at leesecurity.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
12pod2b...@corp.supernews.com...
Tommy
I see no reason to learn French.
Only really need to know the curse words, Steak, and beer in any language anyway.
--
Petem wrote:
> Ok do it in any other language,I don't care...but one day,the knowledge of a second language will become obvious to you,but it maybe to late when you figure this out..
>
> just to make it clear,if its not already clear enough,my first language is French,I can communicate with people that have 2 cent of good will in English,and can follow a conversation in Spanish if the speed if not too fast..(need a lot more practice..)
>
> "Tommy" <tommy at leesecurity.net> a icrit dans le message de news: 12pod2b...@corp.supernews.com...
> > Why would i want to?
> >
> >
> >"Petem" <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:uGCmh.64112$Rg5.6...@weber.videotron.net...
> > >
> >>"Tommy" <tommy at leesecurity.net> a icrit dans le message de news: 12plqoa...@corp.supernews.com...
> > > > All kidding aside, some of the greatest Americans came from the South, including some fantastic authors. i am sure that they (and I) can spell "especially"
> > >
> > > Yup but I am sure you cant spell it in French with out having to resort to an online translator....
> > >
> >
> >
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
I brive a dus
rest of their language is a waste of time.
Petem
But still as I said...at least I can communicate in more then one
language,of course I do typo and I mix some stuff..
I am not perfect as some think they are..the fact that I suffer from
dyslexia do help me see that I really not perfect..!!LOL
So the blunt about not being able to type especially correctly was a cheap
shot,since as you say yourself...
you have difficulty communicating in another language then English...
At least point a finger to someone about something that he did bad, when you
can at least do better,not worst...
"Tommy" <tommy at leesecurity dot net> a écrit dans le message de news:
459dce17$0$14922$8826...@free.teranews.com...
Petem
leading to the creation of the USA,cause it was the French revolution that
created the spark that lead to the American revolution...too bad you cant
even see that....
Boy you must hate the White house and most of central Washington
"I brive a dus" <alarmi...@aol.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
1167974082.3...@q40g2000cwq.googlegroups.com...
Robert L Bass
> i can follow a limited Spanish
> conversation also, though lack of
After nearly 20 years of not needing it, I thought I had forgotten all my Spanish. However, I recently attended a seminar which was
presented in Spanish and I was surprised at how much I understood.
I'm conversant, though not fluent, in Portuguese as well. Interestingly, the combination helps me to at least get the gist of
conversations between Italians at the market. I'd really like to learn Mandarin.
> I see no reason to learn French...
Perhaps after their army takes over the world you'll reconsider. Or perhaps not. :^)
Roland Moore
French Revolution against itself 1789 to 1799
Okay we know that this concept of bottom and top isn't settled with you yet,
but now we have a time line issue as well?
France had helped Americans vs. Britain in the American Revolutionary War,
but Louis XVI (our as you would say Petem 'Louis le Demier') was the guy
still in charge in France during that time period (1775 to 1783) and up
until 1792.
'Louis le Demier' was executed January 21,1793. That whole thing eventually
led to Napoleon I, a guy who could really fight. Oh yes, that's because he
wasn't really French after all.news:nFlnh.40783$7.28...@weber.videotron.net...
Petem
the turmoil started way before that,do you really think that a population
would reverse its king and take control of a country in a few week...
thinking like that is like being creationist rather then evolutionist...
"Roland Moore" <rol...@corridor.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
459e168c$0$18081$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
Doug
Doug
--
"Petem" <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Bxxnh.54087$7.39...@weber.videotron.net...