Wiring for phones and alarms
RH Campbell
pass along here that might help other installers.
Several customers of mine have had telephone wiring companies in to wire
their basements in the process of finishing them. These guys don't always
understand how alarms work, and will wire the new phone loops to the Tip and
Ring connections of the CA38A jack, thereby putting that part of the phone
network ahead of the alarm panel. I don't usually find out about this until
I try to dial in to the panel, and it has trouble communicating with my
computer during upload / download. This necessitates a needless service call
to rectify the situation. This situation is not severe enough to stop the
test signal from going through either, nor alarm signals in most cases, so I
usually find out about it almost by accident...
So, now I've taken to running a loop from the T1 / R1 side of the jack over
to a separate small connector box a foot away, and clearly marking this as
the point for all telephone connections. Written on the box is "connect all
telephones here only". This keeps these guys away from the alarm system and
gives them an easy to find connecting point for telephone extensions....
Simple and it works for me...
R.H.Campbell
Home Security Metal Products
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
www.homemetal.com
Robert L. Bass
Good point. I think I might just have a better solution though. Someone
else brought it up in the past few days. Better Way makes this model BW-1
phone connector. If the subscriber has one of the newer telco blocks (ugly,
gray box on the side of the house), you can wire the RJ-31X (CA38A in
Canada) jack to the BW-1. Unplug the house phones plug from the jack inside
the telco protector. Plug the BW-1 in its stead. Insert the house phones
plug into the BW-1's jack.
Now the client or the telco can connect anything they want at any time and
it won't interfere with the alarm. If you have these telco boxes on the
side of the building, the BW-1 makes the alarm connection permanently idiot
proof. Of course you'll also want to tamper the telco box to keep someone
from unplugging the BW-1.
Even if the TI does take out the BW-1 he probably won't cut it because its
removal eliminates the alarm from the phone line entirely. When the panel
fails to send in its daily test signal you can call the client and tell him
to go plug the "gray thingy" into the phone line the way it says in the
picture you left inside the alarm control panel. :^)
Regards,
Robert L Bass
=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
ASA Approved Vendor
http://www.Bass-Home.com
2291 Pine View Cir
Sarasota, FL 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Support
941-925-9747 Fax
rober...@comcast.net
=============================>
"RH Campbell" <rh.ca...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:Grv0a.283957$pDv.2...@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
RH Campbell
somewhat more expensive than I had in mind as a "quick fix". My problem was
not the Telco personnel; it was another wiring contractor playing around
inside the house and connecting at the wrong point. Your solution would
definately eliminate any kind of wrong connections for sure, but I think the
little 30 cent wiring box, wired away from the jack and clearly marked, will
suffice for me...
Good idea though ! It's great to see some of these helpful ideas pop up
rather than the string of "wireless is bad" posts proliferating in the ng
lately....
RHC
"Robert L. Bass" <rober...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:DAydnexNTIc...@giganews.com...
Robert L. Bass
The cost is insignificant, $4-6 retail, depending on who is selling it and
where). Although your method is fine, I like the BW-1 because it makes it
possible for the telco and end user to do exactly what they would have done
if there was no alarm system at all. Anything that eliminates the
requirement for "prior knowledge" can be a major help when dealing with a
TI.
Regards,
Robert L Bass
=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
ASA Approved Vendor
http://www.Bass-Home.com
2291 Pine View Cir
Sarasota, FL 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Support
941-925-9747 Fax
rober...@comcast.net
=============================>
"RH Campbell" <rh.ca...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:4Jw0a.579307$F2h1....@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
RH Campbell
your website...
RHC
"Robert L. Bass" <rober...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:L8idnetnH8o...@giganews.com...
J. Stevens
it rarely helps. I'm looking at the BW-1 line seizure connector I saw here
last week. I think I'll start using them on all my jobs, at least the ones
with a plug-in network interface.
js
"RH Campbell" <rh.ca...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:Grv0a.283957$pDv.2...@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
Mike Dupre
ADI, Tri-Ed
"RH Campbell" <rh.ca...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:NgC0a.286135$pDv.2...@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
RH Campbell
every installation. I'm going to look into it myself.
However, in thinking back about this problem of miswiring, just as many of
these problems were caused by the homeowner who decided to finish his
basement himself and then wires the phones in to the alarm incorrectly
(rather than calling me like I ask them to...). I think the little marked
block is more useful in those instances, since he doesn't have to guess
where to connect. I'm also going to point this connection point out to the
client during the training, when I take him downstairs to point out how to
test if the phones are dead etc, or show him how if the telco asks him to
disconnect his alarm....
...(you toucha my alarm, I slappa yo hands....).....
RHC
"J. Stevens" <alarm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ezF0a.1612$q91.1...@news2.west.cox.net...
Robert L. Bass
simple FAQ on the BW-1. Here's the link. Comments are welcome. [Robert
now ducks]
http://www.bass-home.com/faq/bw1.cfm
Robert L. Bass
the telco demarc. Install the RJ-31X inside the alarm panel. Put your
connection block outside the panel so the client can add phone jacks to it
at will. Since the RJ-31X will be inside the panel the client will be far
less likely to screw things up in the future With the BW-1 inside the
demarc the TI can unplug you when he services the line without having to
screw around inside the alarm panel.
If you program the panel for line fault monitoring with some reasonable
delay the client will know when the TI forgets (or doesn't bother) to plug
the BW-1 back into the jack. Since the BW-1 will reside on the client side
of the demarc, you can walk the client through reconnecting if it's not
possible to go out to the site right away.
Regards,
Robert L Bass
=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
ASA Approved Vendor
http://www.Bass-Home.com
2291 Pine View Cir
Sarasota, FL 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Support
941-925-9747 Fax
rober...@comcast.net
=============================>
"RH Campbell" <rh.ca...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:pTF0a.288155$pDv.2...@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
RH Campbell
advantages of using it...
RHC
"Robert L. Bass" <rober...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:2zGdnTwMucx...@giganews.com...
Mike Dupre
so, the damage is usually done right at the jack. Methinks homeowners and
telcoes alike are pretty hung up on red and green and parallel connections.
I see jacks wired backwards and lines paralled to red, green. What really
confuses me is this still happens with those jacks that have a WIRING
DIAGRAM stamped on the inside cover !
I mean, for the love of pete...
"RH Campbell" <rh.ca...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:x_O0a.591295$F2h1....@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
RH Campbell
manual's we give 'em....??
Regardless of the use of this connector (or not), personally, I still intend
to wire in a small connection box hooked to the yellow / black and clearly
marked for the homeowner's use in connecting additional phone loops. It's
only a few cents, and it will save me a service call when he finishes his
basement and decides to get creative with his own wiring
RHC
"Mike Dupre" <mdu...@medi-call.ca> wrote in message
news:yDY0a.295120$pDv.1...@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
Mike Dupre
everybody who lives there should know what it's for. (so should the tel
types:(
Wire the plug for a trouble signal both at the keypad and the station. You
won't know when the dastardly deed happenned but you will know when it was
plugged back in. Check with the client and confirm your line seizure.
"Robert L. Bass" <rober...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ngOdnTuROtS...@giganews.com...
> You could actually use the best of both ideas, Bob. Wire the BW-1 inside
> the telco demarc. Install the RJ-31X inside the alarm panel. Put your
> connection block outside the panel so the client can add phone jacks to it
> at will. Since the RJ-31X will be inside the panel the client will be far
> less likely to screw things up in the future With the BW-1 inside the
> demarc the TI can unplug you when he services the line without having to
> screw around inside the alarm panel.
>
That's one of the reasons for the jack, !
Your line isn't any more secure with the jack in the can. Why bother with
the jack? Stupid advice.
As for the rest of this, people who live in glass houses...
> If you program the panel for line fault monitoring with some reasonable
> delay the client will know when the TI forgets (or doesn't bother) to plug
> the BW-1 back into the jack. Since the BW-1 will reside on the client
side
> of the demarc, you can walk the client through reconnecting if it's not
> possible to go out to the site right away.
>
> Regards,
> Robert L Bass
>
> =============================>
>
Robert L. Bass
way they're used to wiring them -- at the protector. In fact, the
directions they get from the telco tell them to wire it that way. But with
an RJ-31X in there, we're essentially asking homeowners and TI's to do it
differently from what they know. Mistakes are going to happen no matter how
carefully you label the thing.
One advantage I see with the BW-1 is it allows the end user or TI to do
things exactly as they always have. They don't need to learn anything new.
The BW-1 puts the RJ-31X between them and the outside line, making it a
natural for them to do what we want them to do. IMO that's a few very well
spent dollars.
Suggestion: Contact Better Way yourself and ask for a free sample. Try it
out. I'm betting that once you actually use it you'll have this big grin,
saying "Yes. Problem solved." :^)
Regards,
Robert L Bass
=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
ASA Approved Vendor
http://www.Bass-Home.com
2291 Pine View Cir
Sarasota, FL 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Support
941-925-9747 Fax
rober...@comcast.net
=============================>
Robert L. Bass
>
> Common sense ain't too common. The alarm jack must be accessible. In fact,
> everybody who lives there should know what it's for. (so should the tel
> types:(
The inside of the panel is accessable to the homeowner. Give him the key
and show him how to disconnect the RJ-31X inside the panel. If the jack is
exposed, anyone might unplug it. When the TI needs to work the homeowner
can unplug the RJ-31X for him. Never let a TI work unsupervised.
> Wire the plug for a trouble signal both at the keypad and the station.
That is good advice.
--
Regards,
Robert L Bass
=============================>
Mike Dupre
> and show him how to disconnect the RJ-31X inside the panel.
And he can show the wife and kids. And here, so we can find it, let's keep
the key right here on top of the can.
If the jack is
> exposed, anyone might unplug it.
Yes, you're catching on. That is the general idea. That is why it is
designed with the shorting bars and not like this BW thing you think is so
wonderful.
Tim Fischer
The BW "thing" is not meant to necessarily REPLACE the RJ-31X. From their
FAQ:
Q. Doesn't an RJ31X Jack and cord provide the same function?
A. Absolutely not. Even though the RJ31X Jack and cord does provide a way to
disconnect the alarm system from the phone line, you still are required to
remove the original wiring from the screw terminals, and splice the
customer's wires to the alarm system return feed wires that are inside the
interface box. Even though the RJ31X is usually installed inside or next to
the alarm panel, you still have the wire run from the interface to the RJ31X
jack that can have an open or a short, or may be cut, etc. Even though the
customer can remove the dial tone from the alarm panel if a malfunction of
the alarm panel should occur, the RJ31X jack and cord has a completely
different function, and was designed for a different purpose entirely.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Q. Can I use a BW Connector, and the RJ31X if I want to?
A. Absolutely. You can still provide your customer with a way to disconnect
the alarm system from the phone line with the RJ31X, but you still need to
provide the Phone Company with a way to disconnect the alarm system from the
outside of the premises, as they have to charge to do any work on the inside
of the home.
-Tim
J. Stevens
I don't see the BW-1 as a replacement for the RJ31X, just a convenience for
me, and a way to make wiring in new phones foolproof after I leave. With no
basements here, all the phone wiring is done outside the house at the
telephone network interface.
jsnews:Is81a.607885$F2h1....@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
Robert L. Bass
>
> Robert L. Bass wrote:
>>
>> The inside of the panel is accessable to the homeowner.
>> Give him the key and show him how to disconnect the
>> RJ-31X inside the panel.
>
I usually showed each member of the family who is old enough to understand
how to operate the alarm system. The parents decide who is old enough --
not me. Part of user training is a thorough explanation in layman's terms
of how the system functions. Part of that includes how and where to
disconnect the RJ-31X if the need arises.
> And here, so we can find it, let's keep the key right here
> on top of the can.
I always preferred to give a copy of the key to each parent. You get two
keys with each lock.
>> If the jack is exposed, anyone might unplug it.
>
> Yes, you're catching on.
I "caught on" long before you dreamt of installing your first alarm, friend.
I know how often the TI's leave customers unprotected by cutting out the
RJ-31X circuitry. In the old days phone line fault monitors were so
unreliable that few alarm companies used them.
> That is the general idea...
Uh, no. The "general idea" is to make it so the alarm system can be easily
disconnected by the homeowner or by someone the homeowner authorizes if it
should malfunction -- not so the children's playmates from down the street
or any workman can unplug it.
> That is why it is designed with the shorting bars and
> not like this BW thing you think is so wonderful.
Shorting bars make it posible to disconnect the alarm without cutting off
the phone line. They are just as effective if the jack is safely tucked
away behind the alarm control panel door.
Mike Dupre
> Mike:
> I don't see the BW-1 as a replacement for the RJ31X, just a convenience
for
> me, and a way to make wiring in new phones foolproof after I leave. With
no
> basements here, all the phone wiring is done outside the house at the
> telephone network interface.
> js
AHAH! oh, I see, yes a real plus in that situation. We still have many
arrestors inside in basements up here and often both places.
Mike Dupre
"Robert L. Bass" <rober...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:KOWdndVUq4z...@giganews.com...
Robert L. Bass
Ademco Vista 20SE: The manual makes no mention of where the RJ-31X jack should be installed. It does discuss the method of connection at great length on pages 12, 33, 34, 40 and 88. Interestingly, page 88 includes the standardized "FCC Part 68 Compliance Statement" which also says not a word about where the jack belongs.
DSC Power832: On page 10 the manual instructs: "Telephone Connection Terminals - TIP, RING, T-1, R-1
If a telephone line is required for central station communication or downloading, connect an RJ-31X jack in the
following manner:
• RING - Red Wire ________ Incoming line from
• TIP - Green Wire telephone company
• R-1 - Grey Wire__________ Outgoing line to
• T-1 - Brown Wire house telephone(s)"
On page 46 it says: "Except for the telephone company provided ringers, all connections to the telephone network shall be made through standard plugs and telephone company provided jacks, or equivalent, in such a manner as to allow for easy, immediate disconnection of the terminal equipment. Standard jacks shall be so arranged that, if the plug connected thereto is withdrawn, no interference to the operation of the equipment at the customer’s premises which remains connected to the telephone network shall occur by reason of such withdrawal."
There's not one word about *where* the jack should be installed.
Perhaps you don't work with any of these panels so your experience is different from mine, Graham. Precisely which installation manuals do you know of that require the RJ-31X to be mounted outside the can? I've read the FCC Part 68 Compliance statement and it says nothing about mounting the jack inside or outside the can.
Regards,
Robert L Bass
Bass Home Electronics
ASA Approved Vendor
http://www.Bass-Home.com
2291 Pine View Cir
Sarasota, FL 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Support
941-925-9747 Fax
rober...@comcast.net
=============================>
G. Morgan wrote:
>
> Every manual I read indicates the FCC requires the RJ-31x (or CA31a)
> to go OUTside of the can, this is especially true for commercial fire
> alarms because NFPA 72 doesn't let you put anything in the can
> besides batteries. I've seen sync. modulals wrapped in black tape
> stuffed in SK 5207 panels, illegal and sloppy IMO. RJ-31's go outside
> of the can, not very secure, but it's the law.
>
> -Graham
>
>
>
RH Campbell
to put it in the can, I think for most residential situations, it should be
exterior to the can. I have seen it both ways on many takeovers, and there
doesn't seem to be any hard rule of thumb (as RLB pointed out in the
documentation he quoted).
If it is exterior to the can, the residential client can easily access it if
necessary for testing etc. I don't personally believe it is a security risk,
because if the thief has gotten that far already, it's too late anyway.
However, in commercial situations - and especially where the can is located
on a back panel in view and not above the hung ceiling out of sight - IMO it
should then be inside the can .
This whole argument might be splitting hairs a bit, but I intend to leave
the jack external in my residential installations unless I see a good reason
to do otherwise. And if I see any possibility of the client messing with
wiring later on, the little external telephone connector box goes in.
Personally, I never lock cans with a lock; I've had to pick too many open
during takeovers. IMO they serve little useful purpose. And since I am
responsible for ALL service related to the system, there is no reason for
anyone to enter. In the old days, VSN used to put a seal over the can which
voided the warranty if broken. However, this was done to discourage the
client from changing his own battery at far less cost than getting it from
VSN.....
Gawd !! Those ADT Focus cans are made of good solid steel. If you can't pick
them for any reason, you have to drill them out. They cannot be forced open
easily.....
R.H.Campbell
Home Security Metal Products
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
www.homemetal.com
"Mike Dupre" <mdu...@medi-call.ca> wrote in message
news:abc1a.301679$pDv.1...@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
Robert L. Bass
is no regulation which specifically states where it is, this is all personal
opinion. In my case the opinion is based on 26 years in the business. Feel
free to disagree... for now. :^)
Regards,
Robert L Bass
=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
ASA Approved Vendor
http://www.Bass-Home.com
2291 Pine View Cir
Sarasota, FL 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Support
941-925-9747 Fax
rober...@comcast.net
=============================>
Robert L. Bass
> A voice of reason. Thank you.
Robert L. Bass
contraverting evidence, I'd say you spoke too soon. Feel free to get back
whenever you like.
"G. Morgan" <y...@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:27qa4vgaer5d6q0gv...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 8 Feb 2003 14:53:40 -0500, "Robert L. Bass"
> <rober...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >Perhaps you don't work with any of these panels so your experience is
different from mine, Graham. Precisely which installation manuals do you
know of that require the RJ-31X to be mounted outside the can? I've read
the FCC Part 68 Compliance statement and it says nothing about mounting the
jack inside or outside the can.
>
> I will have to get back to you on this matter to clear it up. You
> want proof and it's not at my fingertips right now. I will respond
> when I have the documents, remind me if I don't in the next few days.
>
> -Graham
>
>
Mike Simpson
Locate the RJ-31X Jack (CA-38A in Canada) no further than 5 feet from the panel.
Mike Simpson
"Robert L. Bass" <rober...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:WnOdneFK9rn...@giganews.com...
m..leuck
"Mike Simpson" <msi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:b24540$194eq6$1...@ID-123047.news.dfncis.de...
m..leuck
"Mike Simpson" <msi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:b24540$194eq6$1...@ID-123047.news.dfncis.de...
Mike Simpson
"m..leuck" <m.l....@attbi.com> wrote in message news:nah1a.39571$vm2.22512@rwcrnsc54...
Sharmon
commercial , outside for residential , slapped right beside for a
Maxsys and across the building and on a different floor for a Lynx.
This arguement is starting to sound like a Paul thing. You put the
jack where it belongs for the job you are doing as the manual was not
written with your job in mind (or sometimes with no job in mind) .
Page 16.12 of the Vista 128 installers guide "installer should
refrain from anal activity while following these instructions"
>It also says that on the Simon 3 manual page 13
> "Mike Simpson" <msi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:b24540$194eq6$1...@ID-123047.news.dfncis.de...
> ITI Concord, page 15...
>
> Locate the RJ-31X Jack (CA-38A in Canada) no further than 5 feet from the panel.
>
> Mike Simpson
>
> "Robert L. Bass" <rober...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:WnOdneFK9rn...@giganews.com...
> Hmm. Let's consider a few popular brands:
>
> Ademco Vista 20SE: The manual makes no mention of where the RJ-31X jack should be installed. It does discuss the method of connection at great length on pages 12, 33, 34, 40 and 88. Interestingly, page 88 includes the standardized "FCC Part 68 Compliance Statement" which also says not a word about where the jack belongs.
>
> CADDX NX-8e: Doesn't even discuss the subject. (Miserable manual)
>
> DSC Power832: On page 10 the manual instructs: "Telephone Connection Terminals - TIP, RING, T-1, R-1
> If a telephone line is required for central station communication or downloading, connect an RJ-31X jack in the
> following manner:
> . RING - Red Wire ________ Incoming line from
> . TIP - Green Wire telephone company
> . R-1 - Grey Wire__________ Outgoing line to
> . T-1 - Brown Wire house telephone(s)"
m..leuck
"Sharmon" <o...@request.com> wrote in message
news:glab4v8bib0sar9lm...@4ax.com...
> 5 feet from panel ?? why ?? I have put the CA38A inside a can for
> commercial , outside for residential , slapped right beside for a
> Maxsys and across the building and on a different floor for a Lynx.
> This arguement is starting to sound like a Paul thing. You put the
> jack where it belongs for the job you are doing as the manual was not
> written with your job in mind (or sometimes with no job in mind) .
I agree but thats just what the manual says, I always placed mine under the
can since customers tend to lose keys
> Page 16.12 of the Vista 128 installers guide "installer should
> refrain from anal activity while following these instructions"
Hmm, must be an ADT manual :)
Robert L. Bass
"Mike Simpson" <msi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:b24540$194eq6$1...@ID-123047.news.dfncis.de...
Robert L. Bass
"m..leuck" <m.l....@attbi.com> wrote in message news:nah1a.39571$vm2.22512@rwcrnsc54...
m..leuck
"Robert L. Bass" <rober...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:CQedneFMQPf...@giganews.com...
Jeff
can happen if for instance a child unhooks the jack because it's on the
outside of the can as oppose to what can happen if what? Communicator lock
it up? Phone man wants to unplug it?
"Robert L. Bass" <rober...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Maednbtvwu4...@giganews.com...
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
Robert L. Bass
"m..leuck" <m.l....@attbi.com> wrote in message news:iOj1a.40816$be.29486@rwcrnsc53...
Robert L. Bass
"Jeff" <jmo...@hcis.net> wrote in message
news:3e45c...@corp.newsgroups.com...
Alarmanex
Campbell" <rh.ca...@sympatico.ca> writes:
>Subject: Re: Wiring for phones and alarms
>From: "RH Campbell" <rh.ca...@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 22:01:45 GMT
Sure they can. Just pull out the hinge pin.
Jim
(Email upon request)
RH Campbell
length hinges that aren't openable that way......
Hmmm....must be several models out there....
RHC
"Alarmanex" <alar...@aol.comQzap> wrote in message
news:20030208235502...@mb-fh.aol.com...
m..leuck
"RH Campbell" <rh.ca...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:Anm1a.253095$ej1.1...@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
Mike Dupre
unpluged...What
> can happen if for instance a child unhooks the jack because it's on the
> outside of the can
the keypad beeps and mommy spanks his ass
>as oppose to what can happen if what?
Communicator lock
> it up?
I'm not sure what that is but any dialler can inordinately tie up a phone
line. In a
commercial ap, there'd no doubt be another line or two and cell phones are
prevalent these days so maybe I'm a tad melodramatic in my stance but
>Phone man wants to unplug it?
Uh, that's why it's there and that's why they install them.
(they're not stupid enough to do it for free though)
>
>
> "Robert L. Bass" <rober...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:Maednbtvwu4...@giganews.com...
> > If there's a cam lock the alarm can is the best place for it. Since
there
> > is no regulation which specifically states where it is, this is all
> personal
> > opinion. In my case the opinion is based on 26 years in the business.
> Feel
> > free to disagree... for now. :^)
> >
> > Regards,
> > Robert L Bass
> >
> > =============================>
Sharmon
outside of the can and the whole family licks the terminals while the
phone is ringing ??? A whopping lawsuit I tell you !!! I think the
CA38A should be buried in the floor for everyone's betterment and
protection.
Mike Dupre
Pretty harsh way to start my day though. Lawsuit, shudder, one of those L
words like litigation, legal, lawyer...
Sunday morning and all too, not much sympathy for fellow alarm dealers here
ehhhhhhhhhh?
"Sharmon" <o...@request.com> wrote in message
news:ujnc4vko9kkuq7j5o...@4ax.com...
Alarmanex
Campbell" <rh.ca...@sympatico.ca> writes:
>Subject: Re: Wiring for phones and alarms
>From: "RH Campbell" <rh.ca...@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 06:17:04 GMT
>
>WHAT?.....I never found a hinge pin on their cans...only the integrated full
>length hinges that aren't openable that way......
>
>Hmmm....must be several models out there....
>
>RHC
I'm not really sure which mfg's have which kind of hinges and I don't know what
you mean my an "integrated full length hinge". However if you just mean a full
length hinge, If I can't just grab the pin, I pry the top hinge flange open, or
clip it with a pair of dykes which exposes the pin. Most times this is enough
to allow me to grab on to the hinge pin with a pair of lineman pliers and pull
it out. Full length or two or three smaller hinges. The only doors I've run
across that can't be removed this way are the removeable ones that hook on to
the box with flanges rather than using a hinge. But ....... as I say, I've not
seen every manufacturers boxes.
Jim
(Email upon request)