Moose Z1100 keypad wiring question ... (DIY)
"nos...@ibm.net
I've been able to find a used Moose Z1100 alarm system
to replace my old FBI XL1219 and have almost finished
the rewiring, but I don't have a manual and the
uninstaller didn't leave the cut wires on the
4 keypad wire connectors.
So I need the wire assignments at the alarm board
for the black/red/green/yellow(or white) wires coming
from the keypad. The board is labelled Neg, 12V+ and
data in/out. I can try to guess the assignments, but
don't want to potentially fry the keypad if I can
avoid it.
Please email to: brada @ via . net (remove obvious spaces)
Thanks in advance for any help,
-brad a.
P.S. Info on wiring my inside & outside sirens would
be apprecaited as well.
Michael
"nospam@"@ibm.net <"nospam@"@ibm.net> wrote in message
<363ce...@news1.ibm.net>...
>I've been able to find a used Moose Z1100 alarm system
>to replace my old FBI XL1219 and have almost finished
>the rewiring, but I don't have a manual and the
>uninstaller didn't leave the cut wires on the
>4 keypad wire connectors.
Moose (Sentrol Control Division) still makes the Z-1100R, Z-1100ST and the
control panels Z-1100 and Z-1100e.
The hookup diagrams are on Fax back along with the manuals and the wiring
harness can be ordered from customer service. 1-800-800-2027
>
>So I need the wire assignments at the alarm board
>for the black/red/green/yellow(or white) wires coming
>from the keypad. The board is labelled Neg, 12V+ and
>data in/out. I can try to guess the assignments, but
>don't want to potentially fry the keypad if I can
>avoid it.
All Moose Controls wire as : Neg. to Black, +12v to Red, Data in (or Data A)
to Green and Data out (or Data B) To white. (Reversal of the data leads will
be non-functional but will not damage the keypad or the control.)
>
>Please email to: brada @ via . net (remove obvious spaces)
>
>Thanks in advance for any help,
>-brad a.
>
>P.S. Info on wiring my inside & outside sirens would
>be apprecaited as well.
Is siren Using Driver or are there 2 self contained sirens. (Burg output of
J-16, pin 12, to terminal 27, jumper terminal 29 to 25, +alarm input to
siren or driver to terminal 24 and Negative to 28) (J-16 for other
applications limited to 40 mA per output and the board aux is fused at 2.5
amps)
hol...@heselectronics.com
Data out: White
Date In: Green
Remote 12+: Red
Negative: Black
If you want of copy of the manual, just send $5 to cover
it.
<H>
http://www.heselectronics.com
In article <363ce...@news1.ibm.net>,
"nospam@"@ibm.net wrote:
> Hi-
>
> I've been able to find a used Moose Z1100 alarm system
> to replace my old FBI XL1219 and have almost finished
> the rewiring, but I don't have a manual and the
> uninstaller didn't leave the cut wires on the
> 4 keypad wire connectors.
>
> So I need the wire assignments at the alarm board
> for the black/red/green/yellow(or white) wires coming
> from the keypad. The board is labelled Neg, 12V+ and
> data in/out. I can try to guess the assignments, but
> don't want to potentially fry the keypad if I can
> avoid it.
>
> Please email to: brada @ via . net (remove obvious spaces)
>
> Thanks in advance for any help,
> -brad a.
>
> P.S. Info on wiring my inside & outside sirens would
> be apprecaited as well.
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
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Maximum Alarm & Sound
other moose products !
"nospam@"@ibm.net <"nospam@"@ibm.net> wrote in message
<363ce...@news1.ibm.net>...
Robert L Bass
door like it's supposed to be.
Regards,
Robert L Bass
=====================>
Bass Home Electronics
The Online DIY Alarm Store
http://www.BassHome.com
80 Bentwood Road
West Hartford, CT 06107
860-561-9542 voice
860-521-2143 fax
=====================>
Maximum Alarm & Sound wrote in message <71lvtk$5ej$1...@garnet.nbnet.nb.ca>...
Maximum Alarm & Sound
But we prefer using the panel that Americans refer as that cheap$$$
canadian panel (DSC)!Because it's easier to understand !
In Canada we drink Moose Head beer,Hunt Moose and install DSC PANELS !
Robert L Bass wrote in message ...
Robert L Bass
>
> We in canada always have it stuck in the door !(Moose )
> But we prefer using the panel that Americans refer as that cheap$$$
> canadian panel (DSC)!Because it's easier to understand !
> In Canada we drink Moose Head beer,Hunt Moose and install DSC PANELS !
Hmm. Not all Americans consider the DSC systems cheap. Also not all
Americans like Moose systems. In fact, it seems that only one dealer who
regularly participates in this NG actually installs Moose any more.
I happen to believe that DSC is in many respects a better choice than Moose.
But that's for another thread. OTOH, I prefer Napco to both. But since the
DSC serves a portion of my client base rather well and since DSC's tech
support is excellent (even if slow to answer), I'll keep right on selling
DSC along with my Napco systems. I will not be selling Moose any time soon.
<g>
Michael
Robert L Bass wrote in message ...
>The diagram is shipped with the Moose panels. It's not always stuck to the
>door like it's supposed to be.
>
>Regards,
>Robert L Bass
This statement is not accurate. It was never "Supposed to Be".
The interconnect lable is a requirement of UL. Not a courtesy drawing.
The Z-1100 System I security control is NOT UL listed. (Never has been.) The
only UL compliance is the class II transformer. Rules for UL 985, 1023, and
864 do not apply as the control does not meet the standard.
The control did meet CSFM listing and the requirment for the terminal
designation is met by the Ink Silk Screen on the cover of the metalic
heat-sink housing.
This lable includes Battery float charge, Keypad, Power and Data terminal
designations, fuse ratings, telco connections Output pin identification and
current limits.
If more than this is needed then perhaps a professional should be contacted.
Robert L Bass
and schematics are indeed supposed to be left in the panel or at least made
readily available to persons responsible for the premises. Regardless, it
is wise and good practice to leave the manuals in the panel and to stick the
diagram to the door. On some panels the diagram is either attached to the
inside of the control panel door at the factory or at least supplied with a
gummed back (Napco Gemini, for example).
Regards,
Robert L Bass
=====================>
Bass Home Electronics
The Online DIY Alarm Store
http://www.BassHome.com
80 Bentwood Road
West Hartford, CT 06107
860-561-9542 voice
860-521-2143 fax
=====================>
Michael wrote:
>
> Robert L Bass wrote in message ...
>> The diagram is shipped with the Moose panels. It's not always stuck to
the
>> door like it's supposed to be.
>
> This statement is not accurate. It was never "Supposed to Be".
>
> The interconnect lable is a requirement of UL. Not a courtesy drawing.
> The Z-1100 System I security control is NOT UL listed. (Never has been.)
The
> only UL compliance is the class II transformer. Rules for UL 985, 1023,
and
> 864 do not apply as the control does not meet the standard.
The rules for proper installation have to do with good and reliable means of
installing and operating security systems. Use of a non-listed panel is bad
enough. Failure to observe standards adds insult to the client's injury.
> The control did meet CSFM listing and the requirment for the terminal
> designation is met by the Ink Silk Screen on the cover of the metalic
> heat-sink housing.
The panel diagram includes other information and is intended to be delivered
to the end user or left in the panel for his benefit. The same thing
applies to the manual. UL and the codes don't excuse neglect of the rules
just because the company sold the client a non-UL panel. Good practice is
not an ephemeral vaguery, floating on the whisps of soome installer's whim.
These are established practices which exist for our customers' benefit.
> This lable includes Battery float charge, Keypad, Power and Data terminal
> designations, fuse ratings, telco connections Output pin identification
and
> current limits.
>
>If more than this is needed then perhaps a professional should be
contacted.
A professional would install listed equipment in accordance with required
practices. That includes such elementary matters as this. Also, the next
"professional" who is contracted by the client to provide service upon
termination of the installing firm's agreement (for whatever reason) expects
to find the documentation where it is *supposed to* be -- inside the control
panel. Needless to say, the professional will be disappointed upon arriving
at the client's premises if the unprofessional installer who put the system
in took the manuals and the diagram.
This brings us to the root of this issue. The reason some installers don't
leave the documentation where it is supposed to be (in the panel) is they
don't want the client to learn how easily the system can be reprogrammed to
another central station when they lose patience with the installing dealer.
Michael
Robert L Bass wrote in message ...
manuals
>and schematics are indeed supposed to be left in the panel or at least made
>readily available to persons responsible for the premises.
It is not a Fire System. Even if it shows how to connect a smoke detector,
Robert.
Perhaps I did not make it clear that the requirement for an interconnect
Label, and the system use instructions and a diagram of how to exit the
premises are all a requirement of UL.
There is no other national regulatory agency which specifies that as you
said:
"The diagram is shipped with the Moose panels. It's not always stuck to
>the
>>> door like it's supposed to be."
(These are your words are they not?)
The interconnect label with "gummy adhesive" is not just a good idea. It is
a requirement for manufacturers set by UL.
Your comment stated. That it is "suppose" to be there.
That is not accurate.
The bill of materials for the Z-1100 System I does not include an
interconnect label. Never has. The control is not UL listed under any
criteria. It does not meet UL 985 (household fire). It does not meet UL 864
(Commercial Fire). (nor even 1023 Res. burg).
It is not legal to connect smoke detectors to it as it is not a "protective
signaling system". NFPA 72 specifies that equipment used for the purpose
must be approved by a 3rd party listing (such as UL) or be acceptable to the
AHJ. The Z1100 system I has no approval other than CSFM. CSFM accepted the
silk screen as the terminal designation.
Regardless, it
>is wise and good practice to leave the manuals in the panel and to stick
the
>diagram to the door. On some panels the diagram is either attached to the
>inside of the control panel door at the factory or at least supplied with a
>gummed back (Napco Gemini, for example).
Yes and it (The Gemini) has fire listings. Other Moose controls that are
listed (or were listed until the standards changed this July) also have the
Interconnect diagram. Because they are listed -They are supposed to have it.
All of the Newer controls Including the Z1250, Z2000, Z2000F, ZX200/210,
ZX400/410, ZX440 have the diagram on the control lid.
You have made it clear repeatedly that you do not like Moose Controls. That
is your choice. In some of your experiences you specified why you fell out
with the use of our product. I remember mistakes made by previous management
and therefore agreed by acquiecance. I respect your right to choose and to
voice your opinion.
But when you state something about a product that the company I have worked
for since 1984 makes, and your statement is inaccurate, Then I will speak
up.
When we started making the Z1100 system I, Napco was making the Magnum Alert
900 (August of 1985 when we released the first panel) The Z1100 Security
Control is still made and still commands a respectable margin of North
American Sales. The Napco MA-900 is no longer made. This fact speaks volumes
for the control despite not having UL testing done and approval given.
Ademco was making the Vector 2000. Then they made the Vector 3000. DSC was
not making the lead at that time but later they came out with the PC1000,
Then the PC 1500-3000. Radionics responded the market with the 6112 (about a
year later) in answer to the lower end sales being lost to Moose. The upper
end sales of the 8112 for Commercial Fire, Access and Burg could simply not
be touched AT THAT TIME. As the Radionics controls and modules could do
"Omeganything". Later the lower and middle market continued to fall to The
Moose Z family including the Z-900. DSC with persistant flexibility in
control software and sale point extremely competitive within our market. Oh
and yes they also submit bids to build the controls that ADT wants, as does
Ademco and many other manufacturers.
If something in my post which pointed our your error seemed offensive
then please allow me to assure you; There was no disrespect implied. I
ususally enjoy your material at your web site and your responses. Like you I
feel no need for a moderator nor do I wish to exclude endusers or DIY's as
the viewpoint they give is important.
So I hope you will not be upset with me just over a few facts.
Unless you just like arguing with people named Mike
<G>
Sincerely,
Michael
>
>Regards,
>Robert L Bass
>
>
Robert L Bass
>
> The bill of materials for the Z-1100 System I does not include an
> interconnect label. Never has. The control is not UL listed under any
> criteria. It does not meet UL 985 (household fire). It does not meet UL
864
> (Commercial Fire). (nor even 1023 Res. burg).
I didn't discuss the Bill of Materials, the Bill of Rights, the Magna Carta,
the dealer's tax ID or any other unrelated document. The diagram is
supposed to be installed in the panel so service personnel and the party
responsible for the premises has ready access to it. If you don't like
leaving the documentation that comes with every panel in the panel where it
is supposed to be, then that is between you and your customers.
> It is not legal to connect smoke detectors to it as it is not a
"protective
> signaling system". NFPA 72 specifies that equipment used for the purpose
> must be approved by a 3rd party listing (such as UL) or be acceptable to
the
> AHJ. The Z1100 system I has no approval other than CSFM. CSFM accepted
the
> silk screen as the terminal designation.
And yet it comes with instructions for connecting smokes. Take a look at
page 23 of the manual. There on the lower right is the schematic diagram
for connection of "UL Listed Pyrotector Smoke Detectors, Head 305942 and
Base R2942, or equiv." Your argument does not hold water. The system is
designed for connection of smokes. The diagram belongs in the panel.
Period.
Additionally, the FCC compliance statement on Page 17 is supposed to be
displayed on the equipment or in the accompanying literature. Although
there is a brief comment to the effect that the system complies printed on
the aluminum CMOS cover, the full FCC statement is in the paperwork, which
is supposed to be in the panel.
> Regardless, it
>>is wise and good practice to leave the manuals in the panel and to stick
>the
>>diagram to the door. On some panels the diagram is either attached to the
>>inside of the control panel door at the factory or at least supplied with
a
>>gummed back (Napco Gemini, for example).
>
> Yes and it (The Gemini) has fire listings. Other Moose controls that are
> listed (or were listed until the standards changed this July) also have
the
> Interconnect diagram. Because they are listed -They are supposed to have
it.
> All of the Newer controls Including the Z1250, Z2000, Z2000F, ZX200/210,
> ZX400/410, ZX440 have the diagram on the control lid.
The diagram is supposed to be left in the panel. The matter of UL Listing
is a separate issue.
> You have made it clear repeatedly that you do not like Moose Controls.
That
> is your choice. In some of your experiences you specified why you fell
out
> with the use of our product. I remember mistakes made by previous
management
> and therefore agreed by acquiecance. I respect your right to choose and to
> voice your opinion.
My dislike for Moose has nothing to do with my insistence on following
proper practices.
>But when you state something about a product that the company I have worked
>for since 1984 makes, and your statement is inaccurate, Then I will speak
>up.
I made no statement heretofor in this thread about Moose panels' quality. I
said the diagram is supposed to be in the panel. That would be true
regardless if the panel is Moose or another brand.
> When we started making the Z1100 system I, Napco was making the Magnum
Alert
> 900 (August of 1985 when we released the first panel) The Z1100 Security
> Control is still made and still commands a respectable margin of North
> American Sales. The Napco MA-900 is no longer made. This fact speaks
volumes
> for the control despite not having UL testing done and approval given.
Yes, it indicates that Moose hasn't developed a better small panel. They're
still selling decades old technology. Sad. Napco, on the other hand, has
continued to develope newer and better models. Like Moose, they've
occasionally had their problems. But they have been forthright about it.
When there was a problem with the MA-3000, Napco rewrote the firmware and
gave us free upgrade chips. When Moose Z1100 panels were siezing phone
lines and the keypad displays started failing, Moose told us that was the
first they'd heard about it -- even after 50 or more calls to report the
same problems.
> If something in my post which pointed our your error seemed offensive
> then please allow me to assure you; There was no disrespect implied. I
> ususally enjoy your material at your web site and your responses.
No offense was taken. I think we simply disagree STRONGLY on a few issues
while we agree on a lot more.
Michael
Robert L Bass wrote in message ...
>supposed to be installed in the panel so service personnel and the party
>responsible for the premises has ready access to it. If you don't like
>leaving the documentation that comes with every panel in the panel where it
>is supposed to be, then that is between you and your customers.
Your original post did not say that Robert.
quoted below:
Robert L Bass wrote in message ...
>The diagram is shipped with the Moose panels. It's not always stuck to the
>door like it's supposed to be.
>
>Regards,
>Robert L Bass
Moose sticks it on those products that UL required it to be stuck on.
You are right that the doc's should all be there and NFPA does place the
burden of proper documentation to be placed by the contractor. No argument
there. But that is not the comment that I raised an objection to. (As shown
above)
>
>> It is not legal to connect smoke detectors to it as it is not a
>"protective
>> signaling system". NFPA 72 specifies that equipment used for the purpose
>> must be approved by a 3rd party listing (such as UL) or be acceptable to
>the
>> AHJ. The Z1100 system I has no approval other than CSFM. CSFM accepted
>the
>> silk screen as the terminal designation.
>
>And yet it comes with instructions for connecting smokes. Take a look at
>page 23 of the manual. There on the lower right is the schematic diagram
>for connection of "UL Listed Pyrotector Smoke Detectors, Head 305942 and
>Base R2942, or equiv." Your argument does not hold water. The system is
>designed for connection of smokes. The diagram belongs in the panel.
>Period.
So are you saying that if your state does not recognize CSFM then it is
legal to connect a system 1 to a smoke detection system as the primary
compliance of the buildign code in that same state?
If your answer is Yes then you are wrong as that changes from jurisdiction
to jurisdiction. Example: My state, (NC, the state I reside in not the state
of mind <G>) does not accept CSFM. They accept UL and ETL. Also we do not
have a state Fire Marshall, instead we have the Dept. of INSURANCE. When the
panel was first developed we sent samples and a request for clarification of
use since our state abides by the Southern Uniform Building Code. The DOI
accepted the use of the control in Residential "Household" systems. But our
neighbors to the North (VA, and Maryland) do not. And the Marshall of MD
ordered a Cease and desist until System II.
If your point is that the manuals including the technical documentation
should be "maintained" then I agree. But as I said earlier, That is not what
was posted. :)
>
>Additionally, the FCC compliance statement on Page 17 is supposed to be
>displayed on the equipment or in the accompanying literature. Although
>there is a brief comment to the effect that the system complies printed on
>the aluminum CMOS cover, the full FCC statement is in the paperwork, which
>is supposed to be in the panel.
And on the lable at the top of the heatsink where none can be seen readily.
Point taken.
>
>The diagram is supposed to be left in the panel. The matter of UL Listing
>is a separate issue.
I respectfully disagree. The diagram is a requirement of UL. Nothing More.
>My dislike for Moose has nothing to do with my insistence on following
>proper practices.
I disagree again. Anyone who creates a link on his website which is labled
one company such as Moose which directs the customer another manufacturer AS
YOUR LINK TO MOOSE GOES TO ADEMCO, probably allows his dislike for that
company to control many of his comments. It really contradicts that "image"
of professionalism you keep placing before us.
>Yes, it indicates that Moose hasn't developed a better small panel.
They're
>still selling decades old technology. Sad.
Perhaps your disdain for Moose caused you to look the otherway when the
System 2 and System e , Z900, System 911, D-Com, Z-950, the Discovery
Series, and not to mention the private lables done for Simplex and Nutone.
(And these are just the small controls as you mentioned.)
Robert, certainly you are business wise enough to know that a panel is made
because people are buying it, not just because there are parts around to
make it.
Napco, on the other hand, has
>continued to develope newer and better models. Like Moose, they've
>occasionally had their problems. But they have been forthright about it.
>When there was a problem with the MA-3000, Napco rewrote the firmware and
>gave us free upgrade chips.
(Ever work on a 2500, that is what it was called before it "became" the
2600, its been a while my numbers may be off but the point isn't.)
When Moose Z1100 panels were siezing phone
>lines and the keypad displays started failing, Moose told us that was the
>first they'd heard about it -- even after 50 or more calls to report the
>same problems.
(I am glad you used this example because in all honesty there were worse
ones that could have been used.) To the first caller, that is what I also
said. But to the others I told them that while I had heard the complaint I
did not know what caused it. (If my commrades did otherwise then all I can
say is we are taped and the tapes are maintained for 6 months unless needed
further.We have supervisors and they have phones.) Finally when we did see
what caused it and could reproduce it (Disarm the control from a keypad and
enter your last digit of your code exactly as the kissoff from an opening or
an alarm was transmitted ) then we addressed it. (FYI interested parties
this is firmware 1.44a)
In your example you used Napco. Years ago on a 1008e panel they too had a
problem where the siren output would just "Blurp" in the middle of the day
for no apparent reason.(by the way this was in a dentist office. She nailed
the guy when it went off.) When I called tech support, he had never heard of
it
but was willing to take my name and number (I ran weeknight and weekend
service for my parents alarm company) and give it to engineering.
I Never heard from them again. But when I asked the area rep at the next NC
show he said sure we need to send you a software upgrade. (He knows me and
knew I also worked for Moose and yet he was honest. I appreciated that.)
Its not personal Robert, and sometimes the technican does not know the
answer, but to imply that all who work in Amittyville, or Salinas are moral
paragons and in Hickory we are all intensional liars is not truthful or
fair.
>No offense was taken. I think we simply disagree STRONGLY on a few issues
>while we agree on a lot more.
Great! glad we can agree (and disagree, sure would be boring otherwise).
Very Truly Yours,
Michael
Robert L Bass
Leviticus. But it was correct and accurate nonetheless.
Regards,
Robert L Bass
=====================>
Bass Home Electronics
The Online DIY Alarm Store
http://www.BassHome.com
80 Bentwood Road
West Hartford, CT 06107
860-561-9542 voice
860-521-2143 fax
=====================>
Michael wrote in message <3xo32.3086$A94....@news13.ispnews.com>...