Installer Lockout Code

[Rich]

My commitment is up with Protection One on Jan 30 and I'm taking a look at
going with another alarm monitoring company. When inquiring with other
companies the first thing I came up against was a request from a couple of
monitoring services for my lock out code. My present company changed it from
the default and will not release it until I totally cancel my commitment
with them. I don't like that!! Because of the tone of the person I was
talking to, I get the uneasy feeling that if I do choose to discontinue
service with them they will not give me the code and renegotiate at a higher
price. What's my next step.

Thanx Rich

[Jacob Ashbury]

What type of panel do you have?

[Mark Leuck]

Jacob Ashbury <ch...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:84rr7b$t4a$1...@nntp8.atl.mindspring.net...

> What type of panel do you have?
>
>

He emailed me and said it was installed by Westinghouse, if its their WS5010
v1 then he will have no problems with others monitoring it, if its a WS5010
v2 then forget it, that one's proprietary

The WS5010 v1 has a Grey Westinghouse logo, the v2 has a Blue logo and has a
CLEAR button instead of a RESET button, the keypads will also have to be
replaced along with the board if its the v2

[Jacob Ashbury]

Good luck on this. With the truncated WS he would be probably be better off
with a new 832 anyway.

[VSS DOUG]

Rich wrote

>My present company changed it from
>the default and will not release it until I totally cancel my commitment
>with them. I don't like that!! Because of the tone of the person I was
>talking to, I get the uneasy feeling that if I do choose to discontinue
>service with them they will not give me the code and renegotiate at a higher
>price. What's my next step.
>

I would send a certified letter cancelling your service agreement from Jan 30
and if you own the system request that they reset the installers code to
default.

Their response to your letter will determine your next steps. The most likely
scenario is that they will attempt to renegotiate a new contract probably at a
lower rate than you are currently paying. If all you are looking for is a lower
rate then this may be acceptable to you, if you want to change companies
because of poor service then you should resist any price negotiations.

If the alarm company owns the system they may be under no obligation to release
the code to you, if on the other hand you own the system then they are
obligated to either release the code,reset the code or otherwise allow you full
and unencumbered use of your system. The reality of the situation is that if
the old company is reluctant to reset the code, then the new company will
replace the control panel at little or no cost to you.

Doug L

[RobertCampbell]

Sir, a couple of things to do at the front end..!!

 

Make sure that your contract is indeed up,and that you truly own the equipment and it's not leased. Assuming both of these, you may also want to plan what you want to do about 1- after sales service costs, and 2- ongoing warranty on the equipment. Your new company will undoubtably provide these, but you should know going in what this will cost you should you need to take advantage of it at some point in the future.

 

Most companies faced with the prospect of the loss of your monitoring revenues will naturally try to keep you with them. It seems, however, that some companies resort to a form of subtle extortion to do so, and this is far from acceptable. Make sure your new dealer comes in a few days before your contract is up and either defaults the board, or replaces it. Depending upon the make of board, and if he's been around a while, he may also know how to bypass the lockout, which will save you the price of a new board (DSC $30 to $50). If not, and he has to replace the board because the old company won't unlock it,chalk it up to a little extra cost at the front end that you will recoup over the long haul (hopefully). If your system is relatively modern, it should have been put "on line" with their corporate computer at the time of original installation, so downloading the default factory installer code, and unlocking the board at the same time, is an easy thing to do from their office (although they may charge you for doing so). If they aren't into uploading their panels, just be thankful you are leaving them, since they (and you) can never be sure that what the original installer put into the panel by way of codes was ever truly correct......

 

Most of the major companies set up their installer codes according to a number of different rules.Typically, they are not very imaginative about it since they usually have lots of installers on the road dealing with very many accounts, and must set up a relatively simple "system" to establish installer codes. For obvious reasons, I won't state publicly how to determine their installer codes, but your new company will probably know these unwritten "rules" if they have been around awhile.....(at least this methodology applies in my neck of the woods - don't know about other areas)

 

A lot of large company customers come to me for monitoring after their contracts are up, and the one thing I ALWAYS recommend to them upfront is to stay with their current company unless they can 1- save at least $5 on the monthly rate (least important) or 2 - unless they are changing for reasons of poor or impersonal service (most important) 

 

But don't be put off by the old company using these methods to keep you with them if you DO decide to leave. Remember, YOU own the equipment and ethically they have no right to deny you the codes needed to reprogram your panel (although they may charge you to upload it). Personally,though, I would never stand for any charges that involved sending an installer to your home to do this. If they don't upload, that's "their tough luck".....

 

The other thing to do is to put a "stop payment" on any automatic bank withdrawals they may be making on your account. It can sometimes take awhile for the old company to "get around to it" (speaking from personal experience...) Also be sure to send them a registered letter advising them you no longer require their services, and to close out your account with them (just to be on the safe side..). Make sure you're on line with the new company before you do this to ensure continuity of monitoring services.

 

But before you do this, also examine your reasons for wanting to leave, and assure yourself that you will be truly better off than before..Sometimes "the devil you know" is better than the "devil you don't"...(grin)

 

Hope this helps...for what it's worth..!!

 

R.H.Campbell

Home Security Metal Products

Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

www.homemetal.com    

 

Rich <rt...@prodigy.net> wrote in message news:84r8nq$3kbe$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com...

>
> My commitment is up with Protection One on Jan 30 and I'm taking a look at
> going with another alarm monitoring company. When inquiring with other
> companies the first thing I came up against was a request from a couple of

> monitoring services for my lock out code. My present company changed it from

> the default and will not release it until I totally cancel my commitment
> with them. I don't like that!! Because of the tone of the person I was
> talking to, I get the uneasy feeling that if I do choose to discontinue
> service with them they will not give me the code and renegotiate at a higher
> price. What's my next step.
>

> Thanx Rich
>
>

[Robert L Bass]

Your next step is a threefold process. Contact your state licensing
authority. Document everything as best you can but don't send original
copies of agreements. File a formal complaint. While you're at it, inform
the BBB of the alarm company's ill behavior.

Step two is a visit to small claims court. It will probably cost you a few
dollars (in CT I think it is $8 or so) to file. In your suit demand the
entire cost (get three written estimates from local firms) of replacing the
controls and any associated expenses you expect to incur. Small claims
courts are in essence "hanging courts" for businesses. The alarm company
knows this.

Now for the coup de grace. Contact the city editor (or whatever) of every
major newspaper in your state. Send them each a copy of a letter
complaining of the poor treatment you received, along with copies of the
supporting documents.

This all assumes that you don't get satisfaction from your alarm company.
If they cooperate, just move on to another firm. Best of luck.

Regards,
Robert L Bass

==========================>
Bass Home Electronics
The Online DIY Superstore
http://www.Bass-Home.com
80 Bentwood Road
West Hartford, CT 06107
860-561-9542 voice
860-561-5210 fax
==========================>

[RobAZ1]

>From: "Rich" rtoby

>My present company changed it from the
>default and will not release it until I totally
>cancel my commitment with them. I don't
>like that!!

Locking out panels to prevent changes to account id, telephone number and zone
configuration is not unreasonable from the stand point of a monitoring center.
They are simply trying to prevent you from making a programing mistake that
could result in a false dispatch to another account or prevent you from
changing a smoke detector to a temp alert.

>Because of the tone of the person I was
>talking to, I get the uneasy feeling that if I
>do choose to discontinue service with
>them they will not give me the code and
>renegotiate at a higher price.

In general, they will try to renegotiate at a lower rate.

>What's my next step.

First make sure if you decide to cancel your contract that you do it in the
time period and manner they require in the contract. Don't wait until the last
day, otherwise you may find that they activated the renewal clause and you may
have to wait another 12 months before you can cancel.

Second, if you own the panel, they would be required to unlock and provide the
lockout code to you upon completion of your contract. If you obtained the
system from a dealer, the monitoring company may not know the code and you have
to find the original company and hope they have it or are still in business.

If they refuse to unlock the panel, contact your state's Attorney General's
office for assistance.

Third, when shopping around, be aware that all monitoring is not alike.
Evaluate all the companies on their service and quality. Determine which
provides the best service and which ones provide acceptable service. Afterwards
you can look at price. You may find that for a dollar or two extra, you get a
whole lot of better service.

Rob-

[Rich]

You guys are great - Thank-you for all for your thoughtful insight and
additional info.

I own the system and the contract is indeed up on 30Jan2000. The
Westinghouse Model # is WSS5010 (ie 2 S's) and it appears that the DSC Model
# is PC5010. The Instruction Manual states Version 2.0 on the cover so it
sounds like it might be proprietary H/W.

I had contacted them again and they did offer to reduce the monthly rate and
the new amount, albeit not a significant amount, and is documented on my
account database. I am at ease about them not raising the price. But because
of "some" negative News coverage on non-response or response accuracy I have
been considering a change. This was a couple/few of months ago and I can't
remember all the details but there was some concern.

Best Regards,
Rich

Nick Lawrence <nl...@911.com> wrote in message
news:38719107...@911.com...
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Suggest you make your request, in writing, to P-1. They are an ethical
company,
> and have always provided (in a timely manner) the unlock code for
monitoring
> service clients switching their monitoring service to us (and I presume to
> others).
>
> Let this NG know if you are unsuccessful.
>
> Westinghouse panel? We have been successful in reprogramming every one we
have
> attempted so far, in spite of the manufacturer's claim that it is a
proprietary
> to Westinghouse design.
>
> Nick Lawrence

>
> Rich wrote:
>
> > My commitment is up with Protection One on Jan 30 and I'm taking a look
at
> > going with another alarm monitoring company. When inquiring with other
> > companies the first thing I came up against was a request from a couple
of

> > monitoring services for my lock out code. My present company changed it

from
> > the default and will not release it until I totally cancel my commitment

> > with them. I don't like that!! Because of the tone of the person I was

> > talking to, I get the uneasy feeling that if I do choose to discontinue
> > service with them they will not give me the code and renegotiate at a
higher

> > price. What's my next step.
> >
> > Thanx Rich
>
> Nick Lawrence / 911 ALARM ®
> http://www.911alarm.com/$11.99-month--nationwide-alarm-monitoring.html
> You Have A Choice.... Make The Switch Today.T
> First Alert Professional® authorized dealer
> CA license #ACO-1591 & #C10-731746
> UL-listed monitoring station
> vox 510.444.8888
> fax 548.8500
> Since 1979
> ©1999
>
>

[D2776069]

If you own your system they must give you the dealer lock code if they won't
call your state attorney generals office

[Jacob Ashbury]

I 'tend' to agree with Monica on this. I'll change most to MANY because a
significant number of alarmcos couldn't care less what your code is and
probably left it at the factory default.
The ones that will not give you the code may have good reason. Without
regarding ownership of your system a question of concern is monitoring.
Alarmcos have responsibilities to monitoring companies as well as
responsibilities to system owners. A signed 'release' from a system owner
to an alarmco could help obtain an otherwise non-releasable code.
I disagree with D2776069 regarding the mandate that an alarmco "HAVE TO"
give up a code. Again, if the system is monitored concerns greater than
customer accessibility need to be taken into account.
Jake-
Monica L. <wishy...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:388674b6...@news.idt.net...

> Most companies won't give you their actual code but would change it
> to something that they could give you if you whine.

[herm...@ridgenet.net]

Sorry but I had to ask....

What is D2776069 ?

Thanks,
-Charlie

Jacob Ashbury <ch...@mindspring.com> wrote in message

news:86636k$88c$1...@nntp8.atl.mindspring.net...

[Monica L.]

[Jacob Ashbury]

Three posters up /\
Hey, it's true!
Jake-
:-)
<herm...@ridgenet.net> wrote in message
news:866bnp$2dg$1...@delphi.ridgenet.net...

[Jacob Ashbury]

It is now- 3 posters up, when I posted was D2776069!
That's one of the interesting aspects of Usenet- time of posting is
sometimes irrelevant. Sorry for any confusion Monica, et al.

Jake-
Monica L. <wishy...@usa.net> wrote in message

> 3 Posters up is ME! What are you talking about?

[Monica L.]

3 Posters up is ME! What are you talking about?

[Bob]

In article <388674b6...@news.idt.net>, wishy...@usa.net (Monica L.)
writes:

As a cop I can tell you that in PA the attorney generals office would laugh you
out the door.

On that note I hope one of you can help me. I am a typical DIYer on this NG.
New home. Former owner bought outright an Ademco 4140 alarm system. I had the
installer over to check out the system and give me prices for service but all
he wanted to do was talk about his sexual exploits. I'm no saint but I don't
want a stranger coming into my home, on business, talking like we are age old
friends, so I gave him the heave ho. I called another local co. asking them to
get me the installer code and advise me on its usage (for a fee of course). He
disconnected the battery, powered it down for a few minutes then powered it up
again, hit * & # within 30 seconds and the alarm sounded. It seems that * & #
are set for panic mode. He tried several other key combos including the code I
was given by the previous owner (it works to it off) plus 8-0-0 to no avail.
He offered to replace the board for $270. Having read many of the posts here I
believe there must be a work around.

I called the original installer for the installer? / master? code. He claims
that any competent alarm co. could get into it. He said something about HOT
wiring it. But he refused to give up the code citing; liability, I offered to
sign a waiver; false alarms to CS, I reminded him he had disconnected the phone
line several years ago at former owners request because she wasn't using it; my
lack of technical ability, I pointed out that I'm a computer tech, former auto
mechanic - too much dirt under my fingernails, retired police officer - too
much filth between my synapsis', and do all my own home repair - time
permitting, and with an installer manual and asking the right questions I am
confident I can handle the system; finally he claimed that he could not be sure
that, perhaps, I was a burglar, to which i offered to pay him to come out,
verify who I was, and give me the code. To this last thrust he paried (sic) by
putting his MOTHER on who claimed that he had to run out on a service call.

Any help in getting into this system, installers manual, software (I wasn't
aware there was software for it until I found this NG), would be appreciated.

To the opponents of allowing the person who paid for their system to have full
access of it,
If your worried about lawsuits, have them sign a waiver. If they screw up the
programing, let them know, in advance, that they will have to pay service
charges. I sell PCs and can lock clients out of their machines or parts of it
but won't because it is their PC and I have no right to exclude them or my
competition (that's what I believe drives most alarmcos from giving up the
code) from doing whatever they chose to do to my product.

Robert Sweed

Yo...@aol.com

[D.P.]

You are correct . They have no right to lock you out. With that said,
its done all the time. I would look to buy a new board and replace it
in the panel. It is likley that the code was lost.
You see , the install code can be changed. So theoreticlly you could
have them come out and put in a code of your choosing.
This would aleviate them of any liability or giving up there code.
Since they never gave you this option, than The best way around it, is
to replace just the main board. The cost would be around what a good
pc motherboard would run. (probably 175.00-250.00)
Just call around and see if they will sell you one. If not, I am
starting a security store in a month or so. And can probably help you.
see www.thesecuritystore.cc . I am currently seting up the website. I
could help you out. Or ask Bass.

Dave Page

[Robert L Bass]

This kind of story is precisely why so many people decide to DIY. There *are*
good installers out there. But the growing number of companies and individuals
who behave so poorly is in part driving the DIY market. I guess I should be
glad since I cater to DIY'rs. But as a professional, licensed installer, I am
sometimes embarassed at the company we keep.

As for software and manuals, if you can't find them get hold of me. I'll try to
help. If you ever need help getting parts for additions or an upgrade, I hope
you'll consider my online store.

Regards,
Robert L Bass

==========================>
Bass Home Electronics
The Online DIY Alarm Store

http://www.Bass-Home.com
80 Bentwood Road
West Hartford, CT 06107
860-561-9542 voice
860-561-5210 fax

alar...@home.com
==========================>

Bob wrote:
:
: On that note I hope one of you can help me. I am a typical DIYer on this NG.

[Robert L Bass]

[Jim Rojas]

No, sorry it has a lockout which can only be removed via downloading by the
original company. I have a new board I can sell you for about $100 + $6 S&H.
All I ask is for you to send me your old board. I can send it back to the
factory
to remove the lockout. Of course Ademco does charge for that...

Jim Rojas

Bob <yo...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20000130175724...@nso-fo.aol.com...

> In article <388674b6...@news.idt.net>, wishy...@usa.net (Monica
L.)
> writes:
> >
> >On 08 Jan 2000 23:20:23 GMT, d277...@aol.com (D2776069) wrote:
> >
> >>If you own your system they must give you the dealer lock code if they
won't
> >>call your state attorney generals office
> >
> >Most companies won't give you their actual code but would change it
> >to something that they could give you if you whine.
> >
> As a cop I can tell you that in PA the attorney generals office would
laugh you
> out the door.
>

> Robert Sweed
>
> Yo...@aol.com
>
>

[RobAZ1]

>From: yo...@aol.comnojunk

>As a cop I can tell you that in PA the
>attorney generals office would laugh you
>out the door.

As a former LEO who worked the area of government regulation over private
security operations, it's actually something the AG's want to hear about. They
may not do anyhting at first, but it goes to a systemic problem that's in their
and in the publics best interest. I agree that in some states they will just
shove it aside, but others will begin looking at the pattern to see if it's a
overall problem ythat needs correction.

>But he refused to give up the code citing;
>liability,

Two issues come up. One is your right to the access code the second is who do
you go after. It's generally considered by many state laws to be a violation
to withhold information that prevents a consumer from full use of their
property. The alarm company would have a responsibility to unlock the system
and purge all information proprietary to their monitoring. In other words, they
should unlock it, erase any account and telephone information and basicaly give
you a clean system of monitoring information. The second issue has raise
concern in the legal community. Many feel it's the previous homeowner who you
must go after. If the previous owner discontinued service prior to you taking
possession of the property, they become responsible for delivering to you a
clean system. The alarmco has a right to refuse, but they also have a
responsibility to to the best of their ability. So your offer to pay for a
service call to get the system cleaned of codes and monitoring info, should not
have been refused.

>finally he claimed that he could not be
>sure that, perhaps, I was a burglar, to
>which i offered to pay him to come out,
>verify who I was, and give me the code.

This is very reasonable on your part.

>To the opponents of allowing the person
>who paid for their system to have full
>access of it, If your worried about
>lawsuits, have them sign a waiver.

This doesn't always work. In todays sue happy world, waivers aren't worth very
much.

>If they screw up the programing, let them
>know, in advance, that they will have to
>pay service charges.

When the CS realizes the person screwed up the programming, it may already have
resulted in a false alarm and the dispatch of municipal services.

>I sell PCs and can lock clients out of their
>machines or parts of it but won't because
>it is their PC and I have no right to
>exclude them or my competition (that's
>what I believe drives most alarmcos from
>giving up the code) from doing whatever
>they chose to do to my product.

I differ from your thinking on this. PC's, if the software is screwed up, may
not result in a police or fire response to someone else. I'm of the thinking
that a lockout code that would prevent the system from transmitting specific
account info and format would be sufficient.

Rob-

[Alarmsrvcs]

Attention:
Bas knows NOTHING about Ademco equipment, and VERY little about any of the
others.

Mike
Alarm Services Inc. (NJ)
29 Years In The Trade
Visir our web site
Shop On-Line ( will be up shortly)
http://www.AlarmServicesInc.com

[Alarmsrvcs]

HEY BASSHOLE
No reason to post the same message twice. I told you you were retarded.

[WKREGER3]

Hey Yofi1,
There are some codes that you can try. If you give me a call at my office, I
might be able to run down the code with a little info. I am the Operations
Manager for a small security co. in Austin Texas. You can reach my office at
1877-233-3572 Mon thru Fri 8-5 PM cst.

Sincerely,
Bill Kreger
Shepherd Security Inc.