SIA protocol
Juan Gomez
I'm looking for high detailed technical information on SIA Protocol.
I have already invest on SIA standards SIA DC-02 and SIA DC-05 for
other formats and I don't want to waste more money for such low
quality documents.
Could someone share with me SIA DC-03, SIA DC-04 and SIA DC-07
Standards?
Any other technical information regarding communication formats will
be appreciated.
TIA
Juan G. Gomez
Mark Leuck
You have to buy them
"Juan Gomez" <juang...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7ef52402.04072...@posting.google.com...
Juan Gomez
Hello Mark:
The idea of a newsgroup is to share information with people of similar
interests for the benefit of the group and each member. Remember that.
Probably all the documents are low quality, but it's the only source
of technical information available that I know. If there is any other
source for such information please tell me. But for sure the documents
that I already bought don't worth 100 bucks each.
If we help each other we can develop new and better products and
services with lower costs that can be of benefit to the whole industry
and probably to you also.
Regards
Juan G. Gomez
Robert L. Bass
>
> people of similar interests for the benefit of the group
> and each member. Remember that.
That is true but the document you need is copyright protected and the owner
(SIA) charges us for it. While it's entirely reasonable (and legal) to
share short passages, sharing the entire doc could lead to a lawsuit from
SIA.
> Probably all the documents are low quality, but it's
> the only source of technical information available
> that I know. If there is any other source for such
> information please tell me. But for sure the
> documents that I already bought don't worth 100
> bucks each.
I'm not sure what about the SIA documents you consider low quality. I have
several of the specifications. Some I purchased outright and some were
legally transmitted to me by an alarm manufacturer when my company did
contract programming for them. The documents cover pretty much all one
would need to know in order to make a product compliant with the standards.
What kind of information do you need that is not covered in the SIA docs?
> If we help each other we can develop new and better
> products and services with lower costs that can be of
> benefit to the whole industry and probably to you also.
There is almost no participation by manufacturers in this newsgroup due to
the childish abuse from a few folks who think this is their private sandbox.
The only people who post here are end users, dealers and one RFI troll. No
one who posts to ASA is going to develop anything better and most couldn't
care less about befitting the industry. A few of us post useful information
but the newsgroup is usually swamped with grade school cursing and other
nonsense from a few wannabe technicians with way too much time on their
hands.
If you want the docs you really should order them from SIA. If you are
developing products the cost of the specification will be trivial. That
said, if you have specific questions about the protocol, fire away. Perhaps
we can assist.
Alarm and Home Automation System FAQ
http://www.bass-home.com/faq/masterfaq/faq.htm
Regards,
Robert
=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
941-925-9747 Fax
941-232-0791 Wireless
Nextel Private ID - 161*21755*1
http://www.bass-home.com
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
Mark Leuck
> Hello Mark:
>
> The idea of a newsgroup is to share information with people of similar
> interests for the benefit of the group and each member. Remember that.
Those documents are for sale only and giving them to someone is illegal.
Remember that
> Probably all the documents are low quality, but it's the only source
> of technical information available that I know. If there is any other
> source for such information please tell me. But for sure the documents
> that I already bought don't worth 100 bucks each.
>
> If we help each other we can develop new and better products and
> services with lower costs that can be of benefit to the whole industry
> and probably to you also.
No you just want others who have paid for the documents to give them to you
for free
Group Moderator
From: "Robert L. Bass" rober...@comcast.net
Date: 7/28/2004 11:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: <qdidnc4fl6w...@giganews.com>
There is almost no participation by manufacturers in this newsgroup due to
the childish abuse from a few folks who think this is their private sandbox.we
can assist.
Alarm and Home Automation System FAQ
http://www.bassburglaralarm.com
Regards,
Robert
=============================>
ass Home Electronics
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-9900 Sales & Tech Support
941-925-9847 Fax
941-233-0791 Wireless
Nextel Private ID - 161*21759*1
http://www.bassburglaralarm.com
=============================>
Mike Said:
Know any of these guys Goofy?
This page online 5-28-02
RLB's Shit List
Andy Bowman Wrote:
You know better. I won't drag anyone into this that doesn't want to be,
however I will post a few names that have publicly shown disdain for your
actions here in the past that I pulled from 10 minutes of research on google.
Mike Sabodish Sr.{Group Moderator}
Jacob Ashbury {Jake, the saint}
Andy Bowman
Tom Fowler
Jack Stevens
Nomen Nescio
Rodney Brittain
Jim (alarmin)
Marc Mazzarese
Mike Dupre
Thomas Gerchak
VSS Doug
Steve Rykeman
Bryan Karas
Mike Simpson (a former customer of yours)
David Rosso
Ray Brittain
Bill Boyd
Tom Brown
Jerry Morin
John Morgan
Mikey
|Horace Schmidlap
Cliff Grubb
James Brown (not the singer)
Tom Karamichos (another former customer)
Paul Rampelbergh
Chris Larsen
Dave Mahoney
Nick names:
Urabus?
Peach
money_man_one
q (yes, just "q")
Now, I'm sure you'll discount 5 or 6 of these right off the bat since they
are current foes of yours. You'll probably also try and discount the ones
using nick names as well. HOWEVER,, this is still a hell of a list full of
respectable names that have publicly at one time or another shown their
displeasure with the way you conduct yourself here. Can you imagine how many
others think you're an ass that don't speak up? The number must be
staggering.
Mike Said:
There are PLENTY of OTHERS that will not speak up. They say the do not want to
get involved.
If Goofy seen a few of the others that he thinks is his friends BUT DESPISE his
attitude -actions and ways....He would be amazed....
Mike, Sr.
33 Years in the trade
http://www.AlarmServicesInc.com
http://www.AlarmSuperStore.com
"Your One Stop Alarm Shop"
Free Shipping on orders of $100.00 - all others just $5.95
See site for details
Juan Gomez
information but for some people to make business.
I asked for information on the technical aspects of the SIA format, if
you think it's illegal to send the SIA document, and if you want to
help, you can send the proper information and not the entire document.
Now if you don't want to help at all it's easier to argue about legal
aspects.
Reading back in the newsgroup, the same people who are accused of
illegal things, post copyrighted text here and on their own websites
are against sharing copyrighted information. What's that, a double
moral issue or my only interest is my webstore?
If we can change this newsgroup attitude, we could grow the tools and
knowledge
of the group and their members, I have seen that almost everything
unrelated to selling remains unanswered: unlocking panels, DSC Keybus,
modem connection using SIA protocol to central station, communication
formats, computer interface. Is there any new knowledge that someone
learned here? Have you seen that there is no GNU (General Public
License) project related to this industry?
There are so many things that can be done all together for our
benefit, a GNU alarm panel, receiver, computer interface, TCP/IP
module, better software... Yes I know most of you don't have the
knowledge, but when someone with the knowledge appears in the group
nobody helps.
Regarding the quality of SIA documents: for example DC-02 has only 6
real pages of technical information, I understand the information this
is not my problem, but there are many missing issues like the usual
names of the formats explained, waveforms (can a square wave signal be
sent?), distortion allowed, noise allowed in the lines, crosstalk
issues, and many other technical issues not mentioned. Later we ask
why so many false alarms and problems with the panel communicator. And
at 16.66 bucks per page I expect something better.
So,I will try one more time, I am looking for detailed technical
information on the SIA protocol (as per DC-03 and DC-04 SIA
documents). Also I'm looking for the computer interface communication
protocol (as per DC-07 SIA documents), I have some information on them
but I want to complete it. Could someone help?
TIA
Juan G. Gomez
"Mark Leuck" <m..leuck@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<kqVNc.174237$a24.40285@attbi_s03>...
Robert L. Bass
> is not for sharing information but for some
> people to make business.
Don't be too hard on us, please. The newsgroup is for sharing ideas and
information about security alarms. Several of us participate primarily
because we sell alarms online. Some participate because we like sharing
ideas with other professionals. Others post mostly flames and silly stories
of inverted airliners.
> I asked for information on the technical aspects
> of the SIA format, if you think it's illegal to
> send the SIA document, and if you want to help,
> you can send the proper information and not the
> entire document.
You haven't specified what information you want. The SIA document covers
the entire scope of the protocol. In your original post you mentioned that
the SIA docs are "low quality" so presumably you want information beyond
what they cover. I'm not aware of anything beyond what is covered in the
SIA document but if there's something specific you wish to know perhaps I or
someone else can help you.
> Now if you don't want to help at all it's easier
> to argue about legal aspects.
I'm cautious about sharing SIA docs since there are folks in this newsgroup
who have repeatedly gone RL. You're probably a nice guy but I prefer to err
on the side of caution.
> Reading back in the newsgroup, the same people
> who are accused of illegal things, post copyrighted
> text here and on their own websites are against
> sharing copyrighted information...
Well, that is what some folks claim. Take it with a good sized bag of salt.
> What's that, a double moral issue or my only
> interest is my webstore?
If you mean me you'll find I've posted more help to DIYers and newbie techs
than most of the other participants here combined. Yes, my primary purpose
is to build my business, but I try to do it by helping anyone who asks. If
that's a problem for some folks it's their problem.
> If we can change this newsgroup attitude, we
> could grow the tools and knowledge...
Bear in mind that there is no such thing as the "newsgroup's attitude."
There are a number of people who regularly post to ASA. There isn't a
unified group and there is no one who represents anyone but themselves.
It's more like a crowd hanging around an ADI parking lot than a cohesive
group.
> ...I have seen that almost everything unrelated
> to selling remains unanswered: unlocking panels,
Jim Rojas or Bob Campbell answer almost every post related to unlocking.
> DSC Keybus...
There are about five or six people who usually answer DSC questions.
> modem connection using SIA protocol to central
> station...
Only a few actually know the SIA protocol.
> communication formats...
There have been lengthy threads on Contact ID, SIA, etc.
> computer interface...
Most here know nothing or less about that one.
> Is there any new knowledge that someone
> learned here?
Jiminex gives nightly vocabulary lessons. :^)
> Have you seen that there is no GNU (General
> Public License) project related to this industry?
I hadn't really noticed.
> There are so many things that can be done all
> together for our benefit, a GNU alarm panel,
> receiver, computer interface, TCP/IP module,
> better software...
"Together???" Not likely in this newsgroup.
> Yes I know most of you don't have the knowledge,
> but when someone with the knowledge appears in
> the group nobody helps.
Close, but not exactly correct. When someone with knowledge offers real
help that usually results in an attack. :^)
> Regarding the quality of SIA documents: for
> example DC-02 has only 6 real pages of technical
> information, I understand the information this
> is not my problem, but there are many missing
> issues like the usual names of the formats explained,
> waveforms (can a square wave signal be sent?),
> distortion allowed, noise allowed in the lines,
> crosstalk issues, and many other technical issues
> not mentioned.
Those are ligitimate questions and you're right -- they are not found in the
protocol docs. :^(
> So,I will try one more time, I am looking for detailed
> technical information on the SIA protocol (as per DC-03
> and DC-04 SIA documents).
Beyond what you'll find in the SIA documents there's little you're likely to
learn here. Olson will post a few wild guesses and then claim he was on the
DC-02 committee but everyone knows he's FOF. This newsgroup attracts mostly
people who use or install alarms (DIY and professional) and people who sell
them. There are no alarm system design engineers in our midst.
> Also I'm looking for the computer interface
> communication protocol (as per DC-07 SIA
> documents), I have some information on them
> but I want to complete it. Could someone help?
I don't have that one yet.
Alarm and Home Automation System FAQ
http://www.bass-home.com/faq/masterfaq/faq.htm
Regards,
Robert
=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
Mark Leuck
> information but for some people to make business.
>
> I asked for information on the technical aspects of the SIA format, if
> you think it's illegal to send the SIA document, and if you want to
> help, you can send the proper information and not the entire document.
> Now if you don't want to help at all it's easier to argue about legal
> aspects.
Sharing information is fine, sharing information meant to be purchased
isn't, its against the law. Sharing even part of it is against the law
> Reading back in the newsgroup, the same people who are accused of
> illegal things, post copyrighted text here and on their own websites
> are against sharing copyrighted information. What's that, a double
> moral issue or my only interest is my webstore?
the word is "accused"
> If we can change this newsgroup attitude, we could grow the tools and
> knowledge
> of the group and their members,
>I have seen that almost everything
> unrelated to selling remains unanswered: unlocking panels, DSC Keybus,
> modem connection using SIA protocol to central station, communication
> formats, computer interface. Is there any new knowledge that someone
> learned here? Have you seen that there is no GNU (General Public
> License) project related to this industry?
> There are so many things that can be done all together for our
> benefit, a GNU alarm panel, receiver, computer interface, TCP/IP
> module, better software... Yes I know most of you don't have the
> knowledge, but when someone with the knowledge appears in the group
> nobody helps.
Thats not it, you just don't want to pay for the information you are
required to purchase
> Regarding the quality of SIA documents: for example DC-02 has only 6
> real pages of technical information, I understand the information this
> is not my problem, but there are many missing issues like the usual
> names of the formats explained, waveforms (can a square wave signal be
> sent?), distortion allowed, noise allowed in the lines, crosstalk
> issues, and many other technical issues not mentioned. Later we ask
> why so many false alarms and problems with the panel communicator. And
> at 16.66 bucks per page I expect something better.
It doesn't matter how many pages it is, if its 16.66 bux thats the price
> So,I will try one more time, I am looking for detailed technical
> information on the SIA protocol (as per DC-03 and DC-04 SIA
> documents). Also I'm looking for the computer interface communication
> protocol (as per DC-07 SIA documents), I have some information on them
> but I want to complete it. Could someone help?
You can purchase those from SIA themselves
Juan Gomez
Double moral again, eh???
Are you the same guy that was looking for unlocking panels details?
Oh, yes "unlocking panels may save many techs here thousands of
dollars in new panels that need not be replaced" as per your words,
but why you are not using your same speech there: go and buy a new
panel, this is the legal way. Remember that the panel firmware is
copyrighted and reverse engineering is illegal also. And since the
manufacturer will not tell you how to unlock the panel the only way to
unlock it is some form of reverse engineering. Have you read the legal
fineprint in the panel manuals?
And yes, I understand, for you is only important what you need but you
don't care about a possible dealer that lost an account. Perhaps you
think that this is legal... or not as illegal as copying a copyrighted
document.
So unlocking panels is legal from your viewpoint because you need it,
but everything that you don't need could be illegal?
Please stop with the hypocrisy.
If you don't yet discovered how to unlock DSC panels I can help you
but all of us here must learn that this must be a two way sharing
experience, if not nobody will get something useful from this group
but the ones selling equipment. I'm not against them, but I prefer to
use the group for sharing useful information for all of us. Remember,
always remember, that perhaps you are looking for some other
information that I could know about... Perhaps this information could
cost you more than the SIA documents elsewhere... And some information
like unlocking panels is not a standard you can buy for 100 bucks, I
think that you already discovered that.
So what do you think about my proposal: help me find the information
and/or the documents I'm looking for and I will help you unlocking DSC
panels and any other information I could help. My idea is to post it
for everyone, as to start a new trend here. Tell me what do you think?
Regards
Juan G. Gomez
"Mark Leuck" <m..leuck@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<YrfOc.211936$XM6.15961@attbi_s53>...
RH.Campbell
and is in no way doing anything illegal. There are a few people who do this
and ...yes....they make a couple of bucks a board for providing a legitimate
service, but so what ? The only people doing anything illegal as it relates
to locking boards, are those companies locking an alarm board when it is
fully paid for and fully owned by the customer.Where there is a legal demand
for a service, someone will always fill it ! Such is life. Nor is it always
a simple thing to do. And if you do unlock DSC boards, then you know as well
as I that there is no single way to do it for all panels. One of the several
different processes used even varies between different versions of the same
chip for the same model of panel. Other makes of panels require other
means...
And yes, if I had the information you were looking for, I would be pleased
to give it to you. However, I really don't think you will find anyone on
this newsgroup with that level of technical expertise needed to assist you
R.H.Campbell
Home Security Metal Products
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
www.homemetal.com
"Juan Gomez" <juang...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7ef52402.04073...@posting.google.com...
Mark Leuck
> Hello Mark:
>
> Double moral again, eh???
>
> Are you the same guy that was looking for unlocking panels details?
Nope wrong person
> Oh, yes "unlocking panels may save many techs here thousands of
> dollars in new panels that need not be replaced" as per your words,
> but why you are not using your same speech there: go and buy a new
> panel, this is the legal way. Remember that the panel firmware is
> copyrighted and reverse engineering is illegal also. And since the
> manufacturer will not tell you how to unlock the panel the only way to
> unlock it is some form of reverse engineering. Have you read the legal
> fineprint in the panel manuals?
Yes I have but again you have the wrong person, I never posted anything
about unlocking panels
> And yes, I understand, for you is only important what you need but you
> don't care about a possible dealer that lost an account. Perhaps you
> think that this is legal... or not as illegal as copying a copyrighted
> document.
I have copied documents, in fact I scanned hundreds of manuals a few years
ago, I did ask permission first
> So unlocking panels is legal from your viewpoint because you need it,
> but everything that you don't need could be illegal?
I don't need anyone unlocking panels
> Please stop with the hypocrisy.
What does this have to do with you wanting for free documents others have
paid for?
> If you don't yet discovered how to unlock DSC panels I can help you
> but all of us here must learn that this must be a two way sharing
> experience, if not nobody will get something useful from this group
> but the ones selling equipment. I'm not against them, but I prefer to
> use the group for sharing useful information for all of us. Remember,
> always remember, that perhaps you are looking for some other
> information that I could know about... Perhaps this information could
> cost you more than the SIA documents elsewhere... And some information
> like unlocking panels is not a standard you can buy for 100 bucks, I
> think that you already discovered that.
I don't need to know how to unlock DSC panels
> So what do you think about my proposal: help me find the information
> and/or the documents I'm looking for and I will help you unlocking DSC
> panels and any other information I could help. My idea is to post it
> for everyone, as to start a new trend here. Tell me what do you think?
My idea is you purchase the documents legally instead of bugging others to
give you an illegal copy for free
Juan Gomez
> > Ok, Ok, now I understand: this newsgroup
> > is not for sharing information but for some
> > people to make business.
>
> Don't be too hard on us, please. The newsgroup is for sharing ideas and
> information about security alarms. Several of us participate primarily
> because we sell alarms online. Some participate because we like sharing
> ideas with other professionals. Others post mostly flames and silly stories
> of inverted airliners.
I think that this newsgroup is not sharing ideas nor information, only
basic information is provided in order to sell, but nothing else.
>
> > I asked for information on the technical aspects
> > of the SIA format, if you think it's illegal to
> > send the SIA document, and if you want to help,
> > you can send the proper information and not the
> > entire document.
>
> You haven't specified what information you want. The SIA document covers
> the entire scope of the protocol. In your original post you mentioned that
> the SIA docs are "low quality" so presumably you want information beyond
> what they cover. I'm not aware of anything beyond what is covered in the
> SIA document but if there's something specific you wish to know perhaps I or
> someone else can help you.
I don't have the official document, so I'm worried of missing some
important detail, I have been decoding the SIA protocol from a DSC
panel but I'm unsure of other possible details missing on DSC panel
protocol.
>
> > Now if you don't want to help at all it's easier
> > to argue about legal aspects.
>
> I'm cautious about sharing SIA docs since there are folks in this newsgroup
> who have repeatedly gone RL. You're probably a nice guy but I prefer to err
> on the side of caution.
I understand you, there are so many after you that you must be worried
of being catched with something wrong (not so wrong from my viewpoint
but this is for another threat). That's fine. However I don't want to
receive any document from your personal e-mail, any e-mail can be used
if you want to help even anonymous ones.
>
> > Reading back in the newsgroup, the same people
> > who are accused of illegal things, post copyrighted
> > text here and on their own websites are against
> > sharing copyrighted information...
>
> Well, that is what some folks claim. Take it with a good sized bag of salt.
>
Yes, nothing special against you Robert, I don't like double moral and
I see it permanently in this newsgroup.
> > What's that, a double moral issue or my only
> > interest is my webstore?
>
> If you mean me you'll find I've posted more help to DIYers and newbie techs
> than most of the other participants here combined. Yes, my primary purpose
> is to build my business, but I try to do it by helping anyone who asks. If
> that's a problem for some folks it's their problem.
>
Again nothing special against you but for the newsgroup in general.
> > If we can change this newsgroup attitude, we
> > could grow the tools and knowledge...
>
> Bear in mind that there is no such thing as the "newsgroup's attitude."
> There are a number of people who regularly post to ASA. There isn't a
> unified group and there is no one who represents anyone but themselves.
> It's more like a crowd hanging around an ADI parking lot than a cohesive
> group.
There will never be a unified group, but if people stop losing the
time fighting each other and we start trying to find similar interests
and sharing interesting and useful things there will be a natural
process that will change the attitude. I still believe in people.
>
> > ...I have seen that almost everything unrelated
> > to selling remains unanswered: unlocking panels,
>
> Jim Rojas or Bob Campbell answer almost every post related to unlocking.
>
Yes, but the answer is normally related to make some business (i'm not
against that), but never so much how to do it. Nobody told you how to
unlock a panel...
> > DSC Keybus...
>
> There are about five or six people who usually answer DSC questions.
But nobody answers nothing new, nobody tells how this protocol works,
after so many years of the newsgroup running you will not find a good
complete answer regarding DSC keybus protocol specifications.
>
> > modem connection using SIA protocol to central
> > station...
>
> Only a few actually know the SIA protocol.
Yes, but read back in the newsgroup and you will see that nobody told
anything important about it. And almost no technical details. The ones
that know something keeps the info for themselves.
> > communication formats...
>
> There have been lengthy threads on Contact ID, SIA, etc.
>
Lengthy threads always, but without real information most of the time,
simple questions are answered for selling but nothing more.
> > computer interface...
>
> Most here know nothing or less about that one.
That is exactly the point. Most here don't know so much and because
nobody is sharing information the knowledge of the group is not
growing.
>
> > Is there any new knowledge that someone
> > learned here?
>
> Jiminex gives nightly vocabulary lessons. :^)
>
> > Have you seen that there is no GNU (General
> > Public License) project related to this industry?
>
> I hadn't really noticed.
And General Public License software and hardware started normally at
newsgroups.
>
> > There are so many things that can be done all
> > together for our benefit, a GNU alarm panel,
> > receiver, computer interface, TCP/IP module,
> > better software...
>
> "Together???" Not likely in this newsgroup.
Together is not working yet, I know but even for the online merchants
it can help growing the sales. So if it can be of benefit for all,
perhaps some projects could be done...
>
> > Yes I know most of you don't have the knowledge,
> > but when someone with the knowledge appears in
> > the group nobody helps.
>
> Close, but not exactly correct. When someone with knowledge offers real
> help that usually results in an attack. :^)
I agree.
>
> > Regarding the quality of SIA documents: for
> > example DC-02 has only 6 real pages of technical
> > information, I understand the information this
> > is not my problem, but there are many missing
> > issues like the usual names of the formats explained,
> > waveforms (can a square wave signal be sent?),
> > distortion allowed, noise allowed in the lines,
> > crosstalk issues, and many other technical issues
> > not mentioned.
>
> Those are ligitimate questions and you're right -- they are not found in the
> protocol docs. :^(
>
> > So,I will try one more time, I am looking for detailed
> > technical information on the SIA protocol (as per DC-03
> > and DC-04 SIA documents).
>
> Beyond what you'll find in the SIA documents there's little you're likely to
> learn here. Olson will post a few wild guesses and then claim he was on the
> DC-02 committee but everyone knows he's FOF. This newsgroup attracts mostly
> people who use or install alarms (DIY and professional) and people who sell
> them. There are no alarm system design engineers in our midst.
I'm reading the newsgroup for a long time, not posted a lot because so
much attacks and lack of good information.
Lets change the newsgroup.
Mark Leuck
> "Robert L. Bass" <rober...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:<rdidnS5Ww56...@giganews.com>...
> > > Ok, Ok, now I understand: this newsgroup
> > > is not for sharing information but for some
> > > people to make business.
> >
> > Don't be too hard on us, please. The newsgroup is for sharing ideas and
> > information about security alarms. Several of us participate primarily
> > because we sell alarms online. Some participate because we like sharing
> > ideas with other professionals. Others post mostly flames and silly
stories
> > of inverted airliners.
>
> I think that this newsgroup is not sharing ideas nor information, only
> basic information is provided in order to sell, but nothing else.
Basic information yes, some do sell but most are here because we like what
we do
> > You haven't specified what information you want. The SIA document
covers
> > the entire scope of the protocol. In your original post you mentioned
that
> > the SIA docs are "low quality" so presumably you want information beyond
> > what they cover. I'm not aware of anything beyond what is covered in
the
> > SIA document but if there's something specific you wish to know perhaps
I or
> > someone else can help you.
>
> I don't have the official document, so I'm worried of missing some
> important detail, I have been decoding the SIA protocol from a DSC
> panel but I'm unsure of other possible details missing on DSC panel
> protocol.
I'm sure somewhere SIA has a document for you waiting for you to purchase
>
> Yes, nothing special against you Robert, I don't like double moral and
> I see it permanently in this newsgroup.
No double moral exists here, I'd say the same thing to anyone else in this
group who asked for it
> There will never be a unified group, but if people stop losing the
> time fighting each other and we start trying to find similar interests
> and sharing interesting and useful things there will be a natural
> process that will change the attitude. I still believe in people.
Just that you do not believe enough to pay for a couple of documents
> > There are about five or six people who usually answer DSC questions.
>
> But nobody answers nothing new, nobody tells how this protocol works,
> after so many years of the newsgroup running you will not find a good
> complete answer regarding DSC keybus protocol specifications.
Most likely because that is more technical than many of us know, I've dealt
with the SIA protocol quite a bit, even worked with someone who was going to
make a receiver test generator that would output SIA and CID tones, however
I couldn't tell you the specifics of the format
> Together is not working yet, I know but even for the online merchants
> it can help growing the sales. So if it can be of benefit for all,
> perhaps some projects could be done...
And if it will produce so many benefits then paying for a few documents to
me sounds trivial
Mark Leuck
"G. Morgan" <aSaTa...@bassburglaralarm.com> wrote in message
news:410acd9...@bassburglaralarm.com...
> Someone named "Mark Leuck" <m..leuck@comcast.net> Proclaimed on Fri,
> 30 Jul 2004 21:56:45 GMT,
>
> >I have copied documents, in fact I scanned hundreds of manuals a few
years
> >ago, I did ask permission first
>
>
> put YOUR name as the copyright holder. Remember that site I found a
> couple years back that had them available for download (and brought it
> to your private attention)?
>
> Not that I give a "rat's derriere" © 2004 RLB (and stolen by me :) )
I never claimed to be the copyright holder of the documents
Juan Gomez
- I am not against the people who unlock panels nor the ones who are
doing reverse engineering, I also think that the ones unlocking panels
are providing a necessary service. I only answered that to prove the
double moral of Mr. Leuck.
- Probably my method of unlocking panels and your method are not the
same. As always there are probably several methods for the same thing.
- We must agree that the manufacturer will not tell the information to
anybody (even if there is a backdoor, I don't know nor believe there
is any), that is for sure, so any information on how to unlock is from
someone who studied the circuit, the software or something else and
deducted a procedure.
- If your method involves making something in the PCB or any component
of it is because someone studied the circuit, or part of it and found
a way to change something to unlock it. And looking how the system
works, at least some part of it, is reverse engineering of this part
of this circuit.
- If your method involves making something using the keybus is because
someone decoded or reverse engineered the keybus.
- If your method involves software, trying to unlock panel using the
PC-link or using a remote modem connection, for sure someone decoded
the respective protocol, so they reverse engineered at least part of
the system.
The only way, I think, to unlock the panel without reverse engineering
of any part of the panel and/or software is by brute force. Even
attach something to the keyboard involves some form of reverse
engineering of a part of the keyboard circuit.
For example if you find a procedure to connect a cable and then do
something as I found on this newsgroup, and it worked for you, is
because someone by reverse engineering of at least part of the circuit
found a solution. The procedure is not reverse engineering itself, but
the instructions for doing it are done by someone who reverse
engineered part of the circuit or the software.
Don't even think there is a magical solution or that someone by
mistake or by trying found the proper way, probability in this case is
against simple solutions.
And thank you for trying to help, even by telling me that you will
share the information if you get it, I know that there are not so many
with the technical expertise but there must be someone there with the
info and I'm waiting from him before having to look other ways.
Regards
Juan G. Gomez
"RH.Campbell" <rhcam...@homemetal.com> wrote in message news:<TkwOc.1338927$Ar.2...@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...
Robert L. Bass
Nope. It's just that you're completely unknown and you're asking for
something others paid for which happens to be copyright protected material.
Given the demonstrated propensity of certain folks here to try to make
trouble in the real world, I choose not to send you an illegal copy. I'm
sorry if that offends you. As to what Leuck has to say, you can probably
ignore it. Like almost everyone else besides me in this newsgroup, he has
no need for the document so it's highly unlikely he's even seen it. For
that matter, if it weren't for a job I did for one of the fire alarm
manufacturers I wouldn't need it either.
> Are you the same guy that was looking for
> unlocking panels details?
No, but I'll answer (below) anyway.
> Oh, yes "unlocking panels may save many techs
> here thousands of dollars in new panels that
> need not be replaced" as per your words, but
> why you are not using your same speech there:
> go and buy a new panel, this is the legal way...
The simple answer is it's not illegal to unlock customer-owned equipment at
the request of the customer. It may tick off the prior alarm company but
that's not the current technician's problem.
> Remember that the panel firmware is copyrighted
> and reverse engineering is illegal also...
Unlocking a panel does not involve reverse engineering anything. The
copyrighted firmware is not being copied. All that is happening is the
panel lockout code is being defaulted (reset to factory). In some cases the
entire panel setup (not the firmware, mind you) is reset to factory default.
In either case, there is no copyright violation.
It's worth noting that some alarm companies declare in their literature or
in the contract that they own a copyright on the "panel program." However,
the statement is bogus. Copyright applies to original art -- not to a
telephone number and account number entered into an alarm panel's memory.
It's like saying that your note to "call Mary tonight" jotted down in the
margin of the 312th page of "War and Peace" is copyright protected. You can
say it and you can even have someone else agree to it in writing but it
still does not create a copyright.
> And since the manufacturer will not tell you how
> to unlock the panel the only way to unlock it is
> some form of reverse engineering...
The technique depends on the panel. Some old Napco panels can be unlocked
by shorting out a certain capacitor. Some panels can be reset by power
cycling and then shorting certain points on the board. That's not reverse
engineering. It is simply using the hardware.
> Have you read the legal fineprint in the panel manuals?
Yes, as a matter of fact I have. None say word one about copyright
protection of the installer lockout code.
> And yes, I understand, for you is only important
> what you need but you don't care about a possible
> dealer that lost an account...
By the time a client has another dealer over to unlock the panel the
installing dealer has already so alienated the client that the account is
lost forever.
> Perhaps you think that this is legal... or not as
> illegal as copying a copyrighted document.
I've never solicited anyone to break a contract. Every time I've been asked
to take over an account the client has already severed relations with the
previous dealer. At that point there is nothing illegal or tortious about
taking over service. FTR, I almost always replaced the panel during
takeovers of smaller systems. I made up the cost in monitoring so I didn't
mind and it was easier than trying to undo the mess many other dealers made
anyway. When replacing old ADT systems I'd just toss their junk in a box
and have the client call so they could come pick it up. To the best of my
knowledge they never did. I guess they know what it's worth, eh?
> So unlocking panels is legal from your viewpoint...
Yep.
> ...because you need it...
Nope. It's legal because there's no law against it.
> but everything that you don't need could be illegal?
Naah. If you asked for something I could legally share I'd have sent you a
copy gratis.
> Please stop with the hypocrisy.
But... but.... but this is ASA. :^)
> If you don't yet discovered how to unlock
> DSC panels I can help you...
I've no need to unlock panels. When one of my clients wants one unlocked I
refer them to Bob Campbell or Jim Rojas.
> but all of us here must learn that this must be
> a two way sharing experience...
OK, you first. FWIW, I spend a lot of time sharing knowledge gained over 27
years in the trade here. Unless I'm mistaken you're a newcomer. There's no
rule that says you have to give before you get but it would lend force to
your teachings about gtive and take if you had actually given something.
> if not nobody will get something useful from
> this group but the ones selling equipment...
For the sake of clarity, it's not a "group." It's a newsgroup.
> I'm not against them, but I prefer to use
> the group for sharing useful information
> for all of us...
Fair enough. Feel free to begin.
> So what do you think about my proposal: help
> me find the information and/or the documents
> I'm looking for...
I already told you where the information is. SIA will happily disclose it
to you.
> and I will help you unlocking DSC panels and
> any other information I could help...
That's nice but I don't need to unlock DSC panels.
> Tell me what do you think?
I think you're asking me to break the law for you and I don't even know you.
Since you could easily be an alias of one of the nasty characters who hang
around ASA I think I'll decline. No offense, friend, but that's about it.
Mark Leuck
You continue to try and make excuses for wanted a free document that
everyone else has to pay for, why is that?
Frank Olson
"Group Moderator" <alarm...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040729002956...@mb-m21.aol.com...
> Subject: Re: SIA protocol
Tsk... "editing" an actual Google post... For shame!!!
Frank Olson
> I've never solicited anyone to break a contract.
<cough... splutter> There are *several* Google posts that will prove you
wrong there, "friend"...
> OK, you first. FWIW, I spend a lot of time sharing knowledge gained over
27
> years in the trade here.
What "27 years"?? Please tell us oh great Guru Bassnak...
You received your Connecticut L-6 in 1983... Your L-5 in 1989... You
opened your online store in 1996... and moved to Florida in 1999... You
were *legally* licensed to install and service alarm systems for sixteen
(16) years at the very most... Care to tell us how you come up with the
number "27"??
Unless I'm mistaken you're a newcomer.
He more than likely knows more than you...
> There's no
> rule that says you have to give before you get but it would lend force to
> your teachings about gtive and take if you had actually given something.
What?? His license number?? Address?? So you can go "real life" with him
when he finally realizes what a total asshole you are??
>
> > if not nobody will get something useful from
> > this group but the ones selling equipment...
>
> For the sake of clarity, it's not a "group." It's a newsgroup.
"Pope Bass" mode "on"...
anomynous
> When replacing old ADT systems I'd just toss their junk in a box
> and have the client call so they could come pick it up. To the best of my
> knowledge they never did. I guess they know what it's worth, eh?
>
As posted numerous times, aren't the the same 'junk' that he sells?
Mark Leuck
"anomynous" <sp...@me.not> wrote in message
news:1te9881t86rum.1...@40tude.net...
At the very least ADT uses Lynx and Simon panels, mid would be Concord
Express, DSC 1555/5010 and Ademco Vista-20P so the answer is yes
anomynous
Unless he gets his source to have the stuff he sells manufactered with
military specs components.