Firelite MS5024UD
Bob La Londe
We have had a couple recurring problems with this system.
It went into alarm once just after installation indicating an alarm with a
single pull station. The pull station had not been activated and there was
nothing wrong with the wiring to it.
At one time it locked up and locked up one of the phone lines regularly.
Firelite told us we needed a new EPROM for it which we got and installed.
We have had no problems for several months until about 3 days ago.
The system for no apparent reason went into alarm. It did not send any
signals. When I sent a service tech to the site the following day there was
nothing showing on the display, but the bell circuit was still buzzing
weakly. None of the devices had been tripped. It had locked up the phone
lines and the customer had unplugged the phone line jacks to clear up their
lines for use. The panel appeared to be locked up. He powered down and
powered back up the system and it appeared to operate correctly.
By looking at my central station record it appears to have had its
malfunction between the first and second auto test signals that it sends
every night.
I have not been back over the to do a complete test on the system, but it is
reporting auto test signals properly now. I received a call from the fire
department today. They want me to send them a letter guaranteeing this
system will work. I can't do that because is not the first time this panel
has locked up.
Power seems to be fine. Phone lines appear to be fine. What do I do.
I am getting very frustrated with this system. I am ready to rip it out and
install something else in its place. Everything is installed correctly and
when we check everything its all hooked up correctly and tests out properly.
There are only a handful of devices on this system. Its very easy to test
each circuit. There are:
Sprinkler flows and tampers
One smoke detector
One bell
One pull station
The Security Consultant
Bob La Londe - Owner
849 S Ave C
Yuma, Az 85364
(928)782-9765 ofc
(928)782-7873 fax
Frank Olson
"Bob La Londe" <use...@diycomponents.com> wrote in message
news:1128980965.d4efe6be779881e82ba5281c1ad6fa8c@teranews...
Check the date of manufacture on the board. FireLite must have had a "bad
batch". Order a new board and send the old one back for testing.
Crash Gordon
dedicated line?
"Frank Olson" <Please-use-th...@yoursecuritysource.com> wrote in
message news:_yB2f.142505$1i.84226@pd7tw2no...
Bob La Londe
"Crash Gordon" <webm...@siriussystems.invalid> wrote in message
news:8NB2f.48$vV4....@news.uswest.net...
> They unplugged the phone line to get their phones to work? Ain't it on a
> dedicated line?
>
No, and we have had this conversation here before. Its not required to be
per NFPA. (Unless its changed in the last year) It must be wired to have
line siezure, and in this case there are two lines in use, both are properly
wired for line siezure. Some local jurisdictions (not this one) have
mis-interpreted the NFPA to say that it must be on a dedicated line but they
are wrong. As near as I have been able to determine only the CS receiver
lines must be dedicated which of course they are and in huge rotary line
groups. I believe that Phoenix is one of those who have said a FACP must
have dedicated lines.
--
G. Morgan
Newsgroup: alt.security.alarms
=> Bob La Londe <= wrote:
> When I sent a service tech to the site the following day there was
>nothing showing on the display, but the bell circuit was still buzzing
>weakly.
Did you check the AC on the secondary of the x-former?
--
-Graham
Remove the snails to email
Bob La Londe
"G. Morgan" <alarmp...@snailgmail.com> wrote in message
news:434dea92....@news.aioe.org...
> Subject: Firelite MS5024UD
> Newsgroup: alt.security.alarms
> => Bob La Londe <= wrote:
>
> > When I sent a service tech to the site the following day there was
> >nothing showing on the display, but the bell circuit was still buzzing
> >weakly.
>
>
> Did you check the AC on the secondary of the x-former?
>
No. Are you thinking the transformer inside the panel is bad? Woudln't
that continuously be bad though? I mean a transformer is a pretty simple
device. Just a couple windings. Usually they either work or they don't.
--
Crash Gordon
but not the primary.
"Bob La Londe" <use...@diycomponents.com> wrote in message
news:1128983099.79cb55ec3098acf62c7c0e026f71b708@teranews...
G. Morgan
=> Bob La Londe <= wrote:
>> Did you check the AC on the secondary of the x-former?
>>
>
>No. Are you thinking the transformer inside the panel is bad? Woudln't
>that continuously be bad though? I mean a transformer is a pretty simple
>device. Just a couple windings. Usually they either work or they don't.
Yeah, they usually just work or don't work, but it may be under (or over)
voltage. I'm not sure what the secondary output is supposed to be on that
panel, it's just something that might be causing the glitches you've explained.
Did you check the voltages in troubleshoot mode?
MODE -> 8768 -> ENTER
Voltages can be viewed by performing the following steps:
• AC input voltage - press A and then the [ENTER/STORE] key
• Battery voltage - press B and then the [ENTER/STORE] key
• Zone 1 voltage - press 1 and then the [ENTER/STORE] key
• Zone 2 voltage - press 2 and then the [ENTER/STORE] key
• Zone 3 voltage - press 3 and then the [ENTER/STORE] key
• Zone 4 voltage - press 4 and then the [ENTER/STORE] key
• Zone 5 voltage - press 5 and then the [ENTER/STORE] key
• NAC #1 voltage - press b then 1 and then the [ENTER/STORE] key
• NAC #2 voltage - press b then 2 and then the [ENTER/STORE] key
• Resettable 24 volt power - press the RESET key and then the [ENTER/STORE] key
Either way it's the panel or the x-former causing the problems, I just wanted to
remind you to check the transformer before replacing the panel.
Good luck.
-G
Bob Worthy
the signals and restores went though to central just fine except the panel
display never recognized the signals. Stayed "System Normal" through the
test. Any thoughts other than replace panel.
"Bob La Londe" <use...@diycomponents.com> wrote in message
news:1128980965.d4efe6be779881e82ba5281c1ad6fa8c@teranews...
Bob La Londe
siezed are the CS receiver. They want to know what brand model and
revisions CS receivers the panel is calling into.
"Bob La Londe" <use...@diycomponents.com> wrote in message
news:1128980965.d4efe6be779881e82ba5281c1ad6fa8c@teranews...
Mark Leuck
> Firelite claims the number one cause of panel lockups where lines stay
> siezed are the CS receiver. They want to know what brand model and
> revisions CS receivers the panel is calling into.
As someone who works in a central station with several brands of receivers
accepting tens of thousands of signals a day that is absurd.
Any panel that locks up due to a CS receiver does is a panel I would have
nothing to do with
Bob Worthy
Osborn Hoffman receiver. I had some problems with a Firelite panel on a
newly installed system with unfined signals coming in that the panel isn't
capable of sending. One of the questions Firelite ask is what receiver is it
reporting to. I wasn't sure as I use a third party center. As it turns out I
was not connected to a Osborn Hoffman receiver but they seem to beleive that
this receiver and Firelite equipment are not on the same page for what ever
reason.
"Mark Leuck" <m..leuck@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:jNmdnRZwF42...@comcast.com...
Bob La Londe
last night. So far no repsonse this morning.
How ever his last messenge the day before yesterday said.
"When a panel locks up, or if the lines stay latched or always on, it is
usually due to a non-UL listed receiver compatible with our panels. It is
quite common."
--
Bob La Londe
Cheapskate's Ways to Do Fishing Stuff
(The Frugal Fisherman)
Through the Month of October 2005
"Bob Worthy" <secu...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:o0O3f.15619$5l....@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
Doug L
up due to a compatability problem with a receiver, not releasing phone
lines is one thing, although even that shouldn't happen, in my opinion if
the call is not completed correctly then the panel should simply disconnect
and try again up to the maximum number of attempts programmed into the
panel, but it shouldn't affect the local operation of the panel in anyway.
If its possible for a receiver to disable a Fire alarm system, then its
probably possible for poor line conditions to do the same thing.
Doug L
--
"Bob La Londe" <use...@diycomponents.com> wrote in message
news:7bqdnZH7I-q...@adelphia.com...
Jim
Bob La Londe wrote:
> I forwardew Marks Comments to the Firelite tech I have been dealing with
> last night. So far no repsonse this morning.
>
> How ever his last messenge the day before yesterday said.
>
> "When a panel locks up, or if the lines stay latched or always on, it is
> usually due to a non-UL listed receiver compatible with our panels. It is
> quite common."
>
> --
WHATTTTT??????
What panel have you EVER heard of that will lock up if it can't
communicate with the reciever? If it can't communicate, it hangs up and
tries again. JEEEEEEZ. Suppose this system was in an unoccupied
building? Duuuuh, it's just going to stay locked up until somebody
happens to notice it? How many service calls does it take to fix it?
Who pays for them? Firelite?
I'd tell them it's damn well time that they do something about it and
to get back to me when they do, so I can start buying their panels
again.
Then you can add, very politely, that you're going to help them in
their efforts by putting the word out on the various Internet trade
groups, that you participate in and at your alarm association meetings,
on a regular basis.
If you wanted to carry it further, you can write a letter to Firelite
president, outlining the problem, quoting the converstation and/or with
copies of e-mail messages, asking how they are going to address this
problem. Any referral to the problem in their reply will be an
acknowlegement that it exits.
After receipt, send a copy of the correspondence to the local and State
Fire Marshal, Underwriters and any of the other agencies that are on
Firelites approval list, with your comments on the problem, and CC a
copy to Firelite. The results won't be quick, but it will eventually be
corrected.
As long as no one complains and the panel has been listed and approved,
all Firelite has to do is keep putting it off with comments such as you
recieved.
Mark Leuck
"Bob Worthy" <secu...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:o0O3f.15619$5l....@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
> Osborn Hoffman receiver. I had some problems with a Firelite panel on a
> newly installed system with unfined signals coming in that the panel isn't
> capable of sending. One of the questions Firelite ask is what receiver is
it
> reporting to. I wasn't sure as I use a third party center. As it turns out
I
> was not connected to a Osborn Hoffman receiver but they seem to beleive
that
> this receiver and Firelite equipment are not on the same page for what
ever
> reason.
I can't speak for Osborne-Hoffman receivers since I've never messed with one
but it still seems like a stupid suggestion by Fire-Lite's support.
Regardless of which format you are using and it doesn't matter if the the
two devices cannot communicate with each other at all that panel SHOULD NOT
lock up.
I've seen problems in the past with other manufacturer and in the end it's a
panel problem that later gets quietly fixed in the next BIOS revision. Of
course only AFTER that fix is in place do they bother to confirm the problem
existed.
Mark Leuck
> I forwardew Marks Comments to the Firelite tech I have been dealing with
> last night. So far no repsonse this morning.
>
> How ever his last messenge the day before yesterday said.
>
> "When a panel locks up, or if the lines stay latched or always on, it is
> usually due to a non-UL listed receiver compatible with our panels. It is
> quite common."
>
> --
> Bob La Londe
>
> Cheapskate's Ways to Do Fishing Stuff
> (The Frugal Fisherman)
> Through the Month of October 2005
>
> http://www.YumaBassMan.com
I'm sorry but that is total bullshit, I have NEVER heard of a panel locking
up because of a receiver.
BTW What format are you using?
Mark Leuck
"Doug L" <vss...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:TrWdnccvDo7...@giganews.com...
> I find it incredible that a UL listed Fire alarm panel would physically
lock
> up due to a compatability problem with a receiver, not releasing phone
> lines is one thing, although even that shouldn't happen, in my opinion if
> the call is not completed correctly then the panel should simply
disconnect
> and try again up to the maximum number of attempts programmed into the
> panel, but it shouldn't affect the local operation of the panel in anyway.
> If its possible for a receiver to disable a Fire alarm system, then its
> probably possible for poor line conditions to do the same thing.
>
> Doug L
Exactly!
Mark Leuck
> I forwardew Marks Comments to the Firelite tech I have been dealing with
> last night. So far no repsonse this morning.
>
> How ever his last messenge the day before yesterday said.
>
> "When a panel locks up, or if the lines stay latched or always on, it is
> usually due to a non-UL listed receiver compatible with our panels. It is
> quite common."
>
> --
> Bob La Londe
>
> Cheapskate's Ways to Do Fishing Stuff
> (The Frugal Fisherman)
> Through the Month of October 2005
>
> http://www.YumaBassMan.com
Umm I...hope you umm....took my name.....off ....it....?
:)
Bob La Londe
LOL. Mark Leuck said.... Yeah. I just cut pasted the message. No names
or headers. LOL.
Bob La Londe
CID
I may try 4 X 2 if I can't isolate the problem.
The tough part is I have done a complete inspection and test ont his panel
per NFPA four times now. Everything tests out just perfect.
Mark Leuck
Can't hurt but did FireLite say this (bogus) problem only happens with CID?
Crash Gordon
FireLite to just replace the panel rather than use an active fire alarm site
as a TEST site!....this seems like a liability suit waiting to happen.
"Mark Leuck" <m..leuck@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:_cmdnbTTGP5...@comcast.com...
Mark Leuck
Hey I been around and know how things work, people complain then they
suddenly "go away"... know what I mean?
Bob La Londe
Not exactly, but the tech guy specificaly mentioned CID " Not every receiver
that is "Contact ID" compatible is going to work with every panel. " in one
of his e-mails. I figured there is a reason for that. He also suggested
using 4X2 " I would try other formats to see what works and is received fine
by the central station, something like 4+2 format." standard in another as
an option when I asked if siwtching to a pulse format would solve the
problem. Of course I had never told him what format I was using in the
first place so, I assumed there was a reason he mentioned CID specifically.
Bob La Londe
P.S. Remember the FBII XL-31. Has runaways with CID reporting. Switch
back to pulse 4 X 2 and it works just fine.
Mark Leuck
>
> >
>
> Not exactly, but the tech guy specificaly mentioned CID " Not every
receiver
> that is "Contact ID" compatible is going to work with every panel. " in
one
> of his e-mails.
<shaking head> That still won't lock up a panel
The only time that could happen is between 10-digit and 4-digit CID
available on the Ademco 15/20P panels but not supported by Fire-Lite.
Mark Leuck
>
> P.S. Remember the FBII XL-31. Has runaways with CID reporting. Switch
> back to pulse 4 X 2 and it works just fine.
True but did that lock up the panel? No
Bob La Londe
The latest.
ME
The problem is it is not consistent. Its been almost three months since the
last problem with this panel. I have also ordered some phone line
suppressors just to be on the safe side.
THEM
Bob,
Let us know what the final outcome is.
Thanks
ME
Well, push come to shove you have a problem with this panel. I can see
communications problems, but there is absolutely no good reason for it to
lock up regardless.
P.S. This panel was installed this year and is most definitely still under
warranty.
Bob La Londe
THEM:
Bob,
If you look on the board, there should be a white sticker with a persons
name on it, with numbers (ex. Dawn S 4003), the first two digits represent
the week and the last two are the year it was manufactured, so the example
would be the 40th week of 2003. A year from that date is the warranty from
FireLite.
ME:
Interesting.
So you guys won't honor the warranty on a panel from the date of sale?
It didn't sit on my shelf, but I can't speak for the distributor.
Further comments.
We shall see what they say. They are now going out of their way to
prequalify it as probably not under warranty. Are things really that bad
over at Firelite?
--
Frank Olson
"Bob La Londe" <use...@diycomponnts.com> wrote in message
news:rrudnfl79qOIc87e...@adelphia.com...
> THEM:
> Bob,
>
> If you look on the board, there should be a white sticker with a persons
> name on it, with numbers (ex. Dawn S 4003), the first two digits represent
> the week and the last two are the year it was manufactured, so the example
> would be the 40th week of 2003. A year from that date is the warranty from
> FireLite.
The "warranty" issue should be handled by your distributor, and not between
you and FireLite. When you purchase a vehicle in September '05 that was
made in February 2005 the warranty starts from when you drive it off the
lot, not from the date it was made. The manufacturer's date is there to
identify specific issues with the hardware or firmware and has absolutely
nothing to do with the "in service" date or the day you buy it from Tried
(if however you purchased something from Tried and found out it was made in
1999, I'd take it back and give 'em hell!).
>
> ME:
> Interesting.
> So you guys won't honor the warranty on a panel from the date of sale?
> It didn't sit on my shelf, but I can't speak for the distributor.
>
> Further comments.
> We shall see what they say. They are now going out of their way to
> prequalify it as probably not under warranty. Are things really that bad
> over at Firelite?
Nope. You got a guy that didn't know what the heck he was talkin' about.
alarman
"Frank Olson" <Please-use-th...@yoursecuritysource.com> wrote in
message news:0LV4f.214792$oW2.114939@pd7tw1no...
> The "warranty" issue should be handled by your distributor, and not
between
> you and FireLite. When you purchase a vehicle in September '05 that was
> made in February 2005 the warranty starts from when you drive it off the
> lot, not from the date it was made. The manufacturer's date is there to
> identify specific issues with the hardware or firmware and has absolutely
> nothing to do with the "in service" date or the day you buy it from Tried
> (if however you purchased something from Tried and found out it was made
in
> 1999, I'd take it back and give 'em hell!).
Heh, Tri-Ed pulls that shit with me now and then; pointing to the date on a
board as a warranty qualifier. (DSC)
js
Frank Olson
"alarman" <alarm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dqY4f.77750$lq6.31879@fed1read01...
I ran into that situation just once. Now I have them open the cans and
right the dates right on the invoice. The ULC panels have serial numbers on
them so it makes identifying specific panels easier but not completely
fool-proof (the serial number isn't on the board). The solution would
probably involve an extra step at the factory but if they did that with all
their units, there would be no argument.