another newbie, what to do with this Brinks alarm system?
to...@invalid.org
Hello,
I'm new here as well, and have looked for a FAQ for the group and came
up empty, and I hope my question isn't too basic!
I've recently moved into a home that has a Brinks alarm system
installed, looks to have been installed in 2004. We opted not to
continue the rather pricey monthly monitoring service given the
neighborhood, and the proportion of time we spend at home. (The prior
owners I'm told were working out of the country and had it installed
due to their absence).
Anyway, we have all this hardware, wired door and window sensors,
other sensors labeled as "PIR" devices (passive infrared if my
research is to believed?) inside the control box that I assume are the
motion detectors I see up on the walls of various locations in the
house. I'm thinking there's got to be a way to put all these goodies
to use with a do it yourself sort of setup that maybe could leverage
an internet or phone connection to call my cell phone in case of
trouble.
The main box of the alarm has a circuit board that's about 8x4" with
no real identifying marks on it. I would have to assume I'd have to
get a new controller board for the DIY system and then just re-use all
the existing sensors?
Anyone with experience doing the same?
Thanks for any insight or advice, or a pointer to some good jumpstart
resources for reading/research.
Best Regards,
Todd
ABLE_1
I see you had just posted your question a little over an hour ago and wanted
to be the first to respond. It may be my lucky
day....................................or not.
I will let others reply with all the insight that they can muster. The
subject of your question has been a recent discussion and I am sure you will
get more that what you need to make a decision. I just wanted to
congratulate you on bringing your concerns or questions here.
Have a great weekend.
Les
<to...@invalid.org> wrote in message news:843b90j...@ripco.com...
Robert L Bass
> FAQ for the group and came up empty, and
> I hope my question isn't too basic!
One of the people who posts here has copied the original FAQ for the newsgroup to his private website but he doesn't represent
anyone here. There is no official organisation.
> I've recently moved into a home that has a
> Brinks alarm system installed, looks to have
> been installed in 2004...
Brinks uses a proprietary system which is not compatible with anyone else's hardware. They lease the systems to homeowners.
Although there have been comments to the affect that they will sell the system outright, they will not support it unless you pay the
monthly fee.
> Anyway, we have all this hardware...
It's mostly trash unless you pay for Brinks' service.
--
Regards,
Robert L Bass
=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-866-1100
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
Crash Gordon
else you can install your self. Everything else should be reusable although
you might have to look for buried resistors if they put them at the end of
the line and remove them.
<to...@invalid.org> wrote in message news:843b90j...@ripco.com...
|
G. Morgan
<webm...@siriussystems.invalid> wrote:
>Basically you throw out the alarm panel and the keypads and buy something
>else you can install your self. Everything else should be reusable although
>you might have to look for buried resistors if they put them at the end of
>the line and remove them.
Ha! I wouldn't worry too much about resistors in the field... ;-)
--
-Graham
(remove the double e's to email)
Todd H.
> Basically you throw out the alarm panel and the keypads and buy something
> else you can install your self. Everything else should be reusable although
> you might have to look for buried resistors if they put them at the end of
> the line and remove them.
Cool--this is sort of what I envisioned. I did see in the alarm
panel a small pack of resistors just kinda sitting there hanging -- as
though it was something they used as piece parts for whatever reason.
When you say end of the line, you mean on the sensor end of the line?
And at the risk of asking what may be a FAQ, what purpose do these
resistors serve to the Brinks system? (I'm new to the security system
hacking realm, but have a strong background in electronics, for
whatever that's worth).
Thanks to all who've responded!
Best Regards,
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/
G. Morgan
EOLR's are used to supervise the alarm loop. With a preset resistance
on the loop the panel is monitoring the current in the circuit, now it
can detect open, close, and partial short -- as well as tampering with
the circuit between the control and device.
Most residential installers disable EOL supervision in programming and
just go for a open/close, that or put the EOLR in the panel which
completely negates the whole purpose of the EOLR in the first place.
Think about knocking out a brick under a window and putting hemostats
on the wire, BEFORE it reaches the contact and you'll see why EOLR's
are useful.
Todd H.
> On 03 Nov 2006 16:08:46 -0600, t...@toddh.net (Todd H.) wrote:
>
> >"Crash Gordon" <webm...@siriussystems.invalid> writes:
> >
> >> Basically you throw out the alarm panel and the keypads and buy something
> >> else you can install your self. Everything else should be reusable although
> >> you might have to look for buried resistors if they put them at the end of
> >> the line and remove them.
> >
> >Cool--this is sort of what I envisioned. I did see in the alarm
> >panel a small pack of resistors just kinda sitting there hanging -- as
> >though it was something they used as piece parts for whatever reason.
> >
> >When you say end of the line, you mean on the sensor end of the line?
> >And at the risk of asking what may be a FAQ, what purpose do these
> >resistors serve to the Brinks system? (I'm new to the security system
> >hacking realm, but have a strong background in electronics, for
> >whatever that's worth).
> >
>
>
> EOLR's are used to supervise the alarm loop. With a preset resistance
> on the loop the panel is monitoring the current in the circuit, now it
> can detect open, close, and partial short -- as well as tampering with
> the circuit between the control and device.
Ahhh. Gotcha. A third logic state if you will. Makes a lot of
sense.
> Most residential installers disable EOL supervision in programming and
> just go for a open/close, that or put the EOLR in the panel which
> completely negates the whole purpose of the EOLR in the first place.
Oy. Oh man.
> Think about knocking out a brick under a window and putting hemostats
> on the wire, BEFORE it reaches the contact and you'll see why EOLR's
> are useful.
Absolutely. Easy way to disable the sensor.
Thanks for the education.
Everywhere Man
are worthless to the OP.
FWIW, Brinks charges $26.99 per month on system takeovers ($31.99 with
warranty) and offers a 1 year contract so don't get all warm and fuzzy
feeling this guy is spending a dime to protect his home.
All of the Brinks negatives aside look at what this guy is saying. He
lives in a nice neighborhood, so the house wasn't cheap, he's having a
hard time justifying $27 a month for family safety, and he's making the
world aware of this on his $1000.00 computer which accesses the
internet for probably $25 a month.
Talk about having fucked up priorities.
G. Morgan
wrote:
>Brinks only uses EOL's for fire and heat sensors. The keypad and panel
>are worthless to the OP.
>FWIW, Brinks charges $26.99 per month on system takeovers ($31.99 with
>warranty) and offers a 1 year contract so don't get all warm and fuzzy
>feeling this guy is spending a dime to protect his home.
>All of the Brinks negatives aside look at what this guy is saying. He
>lives in a nice neighborhood, so the house wasn't cheap, he's having a
>hard time justifying $27 a month for family safety, and he's making the
>world aware of this on his $1000.00 computer which accesses the
>internet for probably $25 a month.
>Talk about having fucked up priorities.
Yeah, instead he should pay you $40/month, and a what.. $500
activation fee. So you can slap a Vista 10P in and he can sleep
better at night knowing he PAID for security? All the while you laugh
your way to the bank and probably back-charge the installer for
something you didn't like.
Everywhere Man
Robert L Bass wrote:
> > I'm new here as well, and have looked for a
> > FAQ for the group and came up empty, and
> > I hope my question isn't too basic!
>
> One of the people who posts here has copied the original FAQ for the newsgroup to his private website but he doesn't represent
> anyone here. There is no official organisation. <
As if your old FAQ page wasn't a bootleg version of information posted
by other folks here.
Stop instigating.
> > I've recently moved into a home that has a
> > Brinks alarm system installed, looks to have
> > been installed in 2004...
>
> Brinks uses a proprietary system which is not compatible with anyone else's hardware. They lease the systems to homeowners.
> Although there have been comments to the affect that they will sell the system outright, they will not support it unless you pay the
> monthly fee.<
They don't sell the system to anyone. Someone will post information to
the contrary BUT they are sadly mistaken. If it says BRINKS on it the
owner is always BRINKS.
> > Anyway, we have all this hardware...
>
> It's mostly trash unless you pay for Brinks' service.<
Don't be shocked if BRINKS doesn't try to reclaim this.
alarman
news:93fnk2ldkvk0bjc0n...@4ax.com...
> EOLR's are used to supervise the alarm loop. With a preset resistance
> on the loop the panel is monitoring the current in the circuit, now it
> can detect open, close, and partial short -- as well as tampering with
> the circuit between the control and device.
>
> Most residential installers disable EOL supervision in programming and
> just go for a open/close, that or put the EOLR in the panel which
> completely negates the whole purpose of the EOLR in the first place.
>
>
> Think about knocking out a brick under a window and putting hemostats
> on the wire, BEFORE it reaches the contact and you'll see why EOLR's
> are useful.
Yes, but only if each window is zoned separately.
js
J. <jsloud2001
A burglar alarm does not guarantee a family's safety. That's a
terrible perception that depends on the public's misinformed ideas
about how residential burglar alarm systems work and the effectiveness
of police agencies that usually despise the alarm companies who waste
police resources with a 90% false alarm rate. Your not protecting
your family with a $30 a month burglar alarm system. All you're doing
is giving yourself a false sense of security. Almost all residential
alarm signals are false alarms. The vast majority of alarm company
generated police dispatches are for false alarms. Alarm calls receive
the lowest police dispatch priority. Some jurisdictions have stopped
responding to alarm signals at all. Others charge a permitting fee
and a steep false alarm penalty. You can debate the reasons for this
and who's fault it is, but the fact remains, this industry depends on
a misguided public perception of mysterious, circling 1's and 0's that
protect families with magical powers and instantaneous response from
concerned law enforcement. This is what is shown on television
commercials and what the alarm salesmen tell the unsuspecting public.
The good news is that there is pressure on the industry to fix this.
There are emerging technologies such as video analytics that could
replace traditional security systems with much more reliable
technology. The false alarm penalties and third party alarm response
laws will force the trunkslammers and zero down marketers to rethink
their strategies. My guess is that we'll see the most radical shift
that we've ever experiences in this industry within the next 5 to 10
years. With IT companies like IBM and Cisco wanted part of the
security integration market, it's just a matter of time before someone
comes alaong and does it better that what we have right now. It's
already started in the high end goverment/ industrial markets.
J.
On 3 Nov 2006 15:06:36 -0800, "Everywhere Man" <alarmi...@aol.com>
wrote:
Everywhere Man
Or maybe he can call your company and oops wait, I forgot, you don't
have a company, and you're begging for information on how to open one.
I'm guessing your desire for self-employment is due to the inability to
secure employment outside of being the goofball in a dunking booth.
With all of your personalities do you get a group discount at the
psychiatrist office, or is it just a flat rate?
Being Friday one can only assume you received your allowance so we
should expect the "Graham in a drunken stupor" parade to start shortly,
followed by "Graham's Drunk Dialing Marathon".
This week's contestants are:
Frank Olson (poor Frank. I know it's going to be Frank. Turn the ringer
OFF Frank)
PeteM (who he can share political beliefs with in 2 different
languages)
Jack Stevens (he doesn't have Jack's number but anyone who answers
whatever number he dials for Jack will suffice)
Jim Rojas (to discuss the economic contributions of the Latino
community in the South, and how he admires Jim for overcoming being a
Puerto Rican and opening a business non-bodega oriented)
Robert Bass (who Graham will ask spiritual advice from, and then redial
ten minutes later calling his wife illegal, to be followed by another
call claiming he never called at all, to be followed by a post in here
accusing Bass of calling him)
Suicide Prevention (who will put Graham on hold after he threatens to
swallow a bottle of Flintstone Vitamins)
and Allan Waghalter (because with a name like Waghalter it's a slam
dunk finding him in a phone book)
Winners to receive round trip tickets to Radio Shack where they can buy
a Caller ID.
alarman
news:1162598842.8...@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Jack Stevens (he doesn't have Jack's number but anyone who answers
> whatever number he dials for Jack will suffice)
That could confuse Graham, and would then constitute trademark infringement.
I'll sue.
js
Roland
replace traditional security systems with much more reliable technology."
Most posts I see here are going for the lowest price point they can find.
Once that is their goal if they get hosed by some big national company then
they didn't do their homework. Residential alarms use the same wire, horns,
batteries, keypads, panels as many small commercial alarms. If they weren't
effective at some level insurance companies wouldn't be so keen to see them
installed. And what does any cop know about an alarm system? During a 40
mile an hour drive by most alarm trips are going to go down as false. The
90% false alarm rate is easier to explain when guys like you operate them.
To leap from that problem to a video analytics solution is a big jump.
Most DVR units that do analytics are limited to a single channel and small
feature set. Most encoders that do analytics only pump out meta data to some
nDVR AND/OR another piece of software on a different hardware platform. None
of that gear is cheap or user friendly. I can see turning loose a heard of
trunk slammers on video analytics. I see posts here on this NG where some
genius says big national companies have to standardize a "program" in a DSC
type panel so the installers can cope. Have you ever run an error check on
any of these "standard" programs to see what these guys have written? It
might be where all those "1's" and "0's" come from for the commercials. This
is too rich. If you only aspire to one day being able to program a simple
alarm panel as your professional goal, then video analytics in its current
form is simply impossible. I can see some regular alarm tech trying to fat
finger a keyboard to capture a scene and start setting up object tracking.
You're going to trust these guys to pick the 10 best reference scenes to
work from? The ones I see post here couldn't pick the 10 best fleas off a
dog's butt. Sure you could see up rules based analytics to do all sorts of
things like only track a speeding blue car leaving the parking lot.
Currently setting up a system could cost as much as a small house. Then who
is going to monitor it? Ms. Jones is really going to like the idea of
walking around in her house knowing some guy might have his hand on his
groin looking while looking at hers?
Tell me PLEASE what encoders you have you set up analytics on THIS WEEK.
Last week? Ever? Been to training on any? Let me see, I bet that big iSCSI
array fits pretty snugly in your trunk. It is packed right next to that
Cisco layer 2 switch.
Currently the real plus of video analytics is to help to track events and
alert operators to conditions that they would not otherwise notice. You know
the gorilla and the basketball thing? You wrote "It's already started in the
high end government/ industrial markets." No it hasn't! If that were true AD
would have purchased Mate already, Genetec would have meta data response and
Broadware would do motion search. Is analytics really out of beta at I3DVR
yet? It is true that Cisco is into video but I suspect for video
conferencing more than security. In five to ten years Bosch might not have
its next regular alarm panel out. One with Video Analytics? You're nuts!
"J. @netscape.net>" <jsloud2001<removeme> wrote in message
news:upjnk2do56kass64l...@4ax.com...
Roland
using N/O loops instead of N/C. Put the hemos on there and then be ready to
plug your ears.
"Todd H." <t...@toddh.net> wrote in message news:84irhwi...@ripco.com...
G. Morgan
wrote:
>Or maybe he can call your company and oops wait, I forgot, you don't
>have a company, and you're begging for information on how to open one.
Yeah... That's right you prick. I trusted you, and you betrayed that
trust. I thought that a disagreement (or battle) online would not
break that trust. I was wrong.
I used to admire you for your accomplishments, that's why I sought
your advice. Now that I see what you are I realize that RLB didn't
just "grab it out of the air" either when he spoke of you.
You're a mean spirited person. Had you really read what I wrote you
would have realized all my references to your kin were hypothetical,
and in direct response to a hypothetical situation. You jumped the
gun and went way beyond acceptable boundaries. Your attack was
unfounded.
Fuck You. Filter me if you want. I'm no longer friendly.
G. Morgan
wrote:
>Don't buy it. There are lots of folks that like the old Radionics way of
>using N/O loops instead of N/C. Put the hemos on there and then be ready to
>plug your ears.
If there is no EOLR in that case, cut one of the leads.
You still need a EOLR device!
G. Morgan
wrote:
>Yes, but only if each window is zoned separately.
No,
You short the contact lead at the window before the contact, it works
no matter how many are on the loop. (if you're planning on opening
that window)
Roland
Go ahead and cut it.. Plug your ears first.
"G. Morgan" <alar...@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:isrnk2d9j0bc9v0pd...@4ax.com...
G. Morgan
wrote:
>Not on a old style class "A" loop.
>Go ahead and cut it.. Plug your ears first.
>
Who ever ran a class A for a resi burg loop?
I've never run them except for commercial fire suppression.
Crash Gordon
(where they belong) they will undoubtedly be the incorrect value for
whatever panel you decide to buy.
"Todd H." <t...@toddh.net> wrote in message news:84u01g1...@ripco.com...
Crash Gordon
normal state on a circuit with more than one switch in series.
pnl-----/ -----/ -----/ -resistor|
pnl-------------------------------|
how you gonna lose the resistor by shorting across the switch?
different story if you're talking about open circuit switches in
parallel...but who does that anymore?
"G. Morgan" <alar...@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:cvrnk2ls3un9kvlta...@4ax.com...
Crash Gordon
had ("HAD" mind you) to spend 70K on landscaping and has an absolute hissy
freekin fit when I told him it would cost him 1500. to trim out the alarm we
had prewired for. He went with some mojo satlink skylink something or other
wireless (in spite of the fact we did a beautiful prewire) - makes me cry.
Except for the fact that his landscaping is butt fuck UGLY. My partner and I
laugh everytime we drive by his house.
"Everywhere Man" <alarmi...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1162595196.2...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Crash Gordon
lasted what? a year or two. Same thing when utility companies tried their
hand in security...oh damn we have to service these things too?...that
lasted a year or two as well.
It'll be interesting to be sure...Microsoft Security maybe...yah that's it.
"J. @netscape.net>" <jsloud2001<removeme> wrote in message
news:upjnk2do56kass64l...@4ax.com...
|
|
Everywhere Man
G. Morgan wrote:
> On 3 Nov 2006 16:07:22 -0800, "Everywhere Man" <alarmi...@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Or maybe he can call your company and oops wait, I forgot, you don't
> >have a company, and you're begging for information on how to open one.
>
>
> Yeah... That's right you prick. I trusted you, and you betrayed that
> trust. I thought that a disagreement (or battle) online would not
> break that trust. I was wrong. <
My heart is bleeding
> I used to admire you for your accomplishments, <
Hence the small potatoes comment?
> that's why I sought your advice. <
No, you "sought my advice" because you're a fucking loser with pipe
dreams, and wanted to whine about how it's everyone else's fault that
you're a flake.
> Now that I see what you are I realize that RLB didn't
> just "grab it out of the air" either when he spoke of you.<
So when you drunk dial him tonight the both of you can discuss what a
nasty bastard I am. If Bass isn't your choice (my money is on Frank
being your victim) for the drunk dial then you and this week's victim
can talk about what a scumbag I am. When I wake up in the morning I
still won't give a shit, and when you wake up in the afternoon you will
have the beer shits.
> You're a mean spirited person.<
And you're full of spirits (my guess is with your budget that would be
a bottle of Owner's Choice)
Maybe a name change to Captain Morgan would suit you better.
> Had you really read what I wrote you
> would have realized all my references to your kin were hypothetical,
> and in direct response to a hypothetical situation. <
Now we come to the real issue. Today you say it was hypothetical but
when you typed it everyone knew you were trying to push the envelope
with thinly veiled insults. Be a man and stand behind what you said
rather than deny it's original intentions. You took a shot, you missed,
and now you've been thoroughly bitch slapped.
Now you're being a faggot denying what you meant. How sad it must be to
be backtrack due to fear. Oh and it is fear. Nuts like you fear
everything. You suffer from paranoia. Those aren't jellybeans the
doctor is prescribing for you.
> You jumped the
> gun and went way beyond acceptable boundaries. Your attack was
> unfounded. <
Listen clown, you take a shot at my family and I don't sit back and
wait for a reload. That taste of shoe polish you're experiencing was
caused by me planting my foot up your ass.
Have a conversation like this in a bar and watch how fast you wake up
in an ambulance.
If you don't like the results then I'd suggest you shut your fucking
mouth.
Then again you could always keep running your mouth. I doubt you want
to deal with the repercussions of throwing stones at a man with nukes,
but if you're feeling froggy then give it a try. I can GUARANTEE you
the outcome will be one you regret for a very long time. It's all up to
cowardly, little you.
You want to talk shit about me then be my guest, fire away, but watch
how quickly your sad life turns into a fucking nightmare next time you
so much as think of saying something about my family, be it
"hypothetical" or not.
> Fuck You. Filter me if you want. I'm no longer friendly. <
Well that should be easy for you to handle since you have nobody to be
friendly with.
G. Morgan
wrote:
>Listen clown, you take a shot at my family and I don't sit back and
>wait for a reload. That taste of shoe polish you're experiencing was
>caused by me planting my foot up your ass.
>Have a conversation like this in a bar and watch how fast you wake up
>in an ambulance.
>If you don't like the results then I'd suggest you shut your fucking
>mouth.
>Then again you could always keep running your mouth. I doubt you want
>to deal with the repercussions of throwing stones at a man with nukes,
>but if you're feeling froggy then give it a try. I can GUARANTEE you
>the outcome will be one you regret for a very long time. It's all up to
>cowardly, little you.
>You want to talk shit about me then be my guest, fire away, but watch
>how quickly your sad life turns into a fucking nightmare next time you
>so much as think of saying something about my family, be it
>"hypothetical" or not.
Lookie here Bitch...
You come meet me somewhere. Do it now.
Everywhere Man
Drunk already, Jeffy? I'd imagine having at least 9 different employers
over the course of 9 years is a tad draining on a fragile little faggot
like you.
I really like some of those special deals offered by your soon to be
former employer.
http://www.digitalwitness.net/index.php
That 16 camera deal for only $849.00 installed and $499.00 per month
must be going like hotcakes.
Kelby Hagar must be a real standup guy, looking out for the best
interests of his clients with pricing like that and having someone as
mentally stable as you doing the work, huh?
This should be fun.
J. <jsloud2001
wrote:
>Most DVR units that do analytics are limited to a single channel and small
>feature set. Most encoders that do analytics only pump out meta data to some
>nDVR AND/OR another piece of software on a different hardware platform. None
>of that gear is cheap or user friendly.
True for now. The next generation will have analytics built into IP
cameras. The intelligence is being pushed out to the edge of the
network. This will change the game.
J. <jsloud2001
wrote:
>You wrote "There are emerging technologies such as video analytics that
>could
> replace traditional security systems with much more reliable technology."
> I am guessing you believe that? More reliable than what?
With the level of current technology, your completely right. However,
technology does and will change. On the commercial side,
interoperability and logical/ physical security convergence will have
many traditional alarm installers flipping burgers within a few years.
Intelligent video is part of that change. I'm working on three
projects right now that use this technology to provide intrusion
detection in addition to assessment. One of the vendors just got
picked up by Siemens, so, yeah, there's something to this technology.
The cheapie residential market may never go this direction, but
convergence is happening there too. People will come to expect their
security system to be integrated with HA, HVAC, IHE, etc. Again,
those who don't keep up will be left behind. Something as simple as
IP phones has the entire industry scrambling for a solution.
Mark Leuck
>
>
> This week's contestants are:
>
> Frank Olson (poor Frank. I know it's going to be Frank. Turn the ringer
> OFF Frank)
>
> PeteM (who he can share political beliefs with in 2 different
> languages)
>
> Jack Stevens (he doesn't have Jack's number but anyone who answers
> whatever number he dials for Jack will suffice)
>
> Jim Rojas (to discuss the economic contributions of the Latino
> community in the South, and how he admires Jim for overcoming being a
> Puerto Rican and opening a business non-bodega oriented)
>
> Robert Bass (who Graham will ask spiritual advice from, and then redial
> ten minutes later calling his wife illegal, to be followed by another
> call claiming he never called at all, to be followed by a post in here
> accusing Bass of calling him)
>
> Suicide Prevention (who will put Graham on hold after he threatens to
> swallow a bottle of Flintstone Vitamins)
>
> and Allan Waghalter (because with a name like Waghalter it's a slam
> dunk finding him in a phone book)
>
> Winners to receive round trip tickets to Radio Shack where they can buy
> a Caller ID.
Oh sure leave me out...jeez
Mark Leuck
Leucks rule of life #3: Don't call someone you you don't really know while
drunk and spill your life's story
Robert L Bass
>> trust. I thought that a disagreement (or battle) online would not
>> break that trust. I was wrong.
Turnaround's a jiminex, isn't it?
>> I used to admire you for your accomplishments, that's why I sought
>> your advice. Now that I see what you are I realize that RLB didn't
>> just "grab it out of the air" either when he spoke of you.
Actually, I was about to tell Fowler that I was wrong about him.
>> You're a mean spirited person.
In this newsgroup that's a compliment.
>> Had you really read what I wrote you
>> would have realized all my references to your kin were hypothetical,
>> and in direct response to a hypothetical situation. You jumped the
>> gun and went way beyond acceptable boundaries. Your attack was
>> unfounded.
And you've no experience at all in posting unfounded, unwarranted attacks?
>> Fuck You. Filter me if you want. I'm no longer friendly.
Your idea of being a friend is more like a parasite.
alarman
> No,
>
> You short the contact lead at the window before the contact, it works
> no matter how many are on the loop. (if you're planning on opening
> that window)
Yes.
You said:
Think about knocking out a brick under a window and putting hemostats
on the wire, BEFORE it reaches the contact and you'll see why EOLR's
are useful.
I said:
Yes, but only if each window is zoned separately.
If 5 windows are on a zone, each window home-run to the panel, and the eol
is at window 5, you could short any other contact using your example, and
disable that window. The eol supervision, for the purposes of detecting a
short as in your example, only holds for window 5. Hence, my assertion that
eol supervision is only in effect if all windows are separately zoned, given
the scope of your example.
js
Roland Moore
time, but they're still out there.
"G. Morgan" <alar...@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:uhsnk25vhofu423ke...@4ax.com...
alarman
news:454bf8db$0$3581$815e...@news.qwest.net...
> heh..I don't disagree. I had a guy abt a year ago, pissing and moaning he
> had ("HAD" mind you) to spend 70K on landscaping and has an absolute hissy
> freekin fit when I told him it would cost him 1500. to trim out the alarm
> we
> had prewired for. He went with some mojo satlink skylink something or
> other
> wireless (in spite of the fact we did a beautiful prewire) - makes me cry.
> Except for the fact that his landscaping is butt fuck UGLY. My partner and
> I
> laugh everytime we drive by his house.
Sounds like he did you a favor.
js
Doug
Doug
"G. Morgan" <alar...@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:93fnk2ldkvk0bjc0n...@4ax.com...
> On 03 Nov 2006 16:08:46 -0600, t...@toddh.net (Todd H.) wrote:
>
>
> Think about knocking out a brick under a window and putting hemostats
> on the wire, BEFORE it reaches the contact and you'll see why EOLR's
> are useful.
>
alarman
"J. @netscape.net>" <jsloud2001<removeme> wrote in message
news:upjnk2do56kass64l...@4ax.com...
>
>
> A burglar alarm does not guarantee a family's safety. That's a
> terrible perception that depends on the public's misinformed ideas
> about how residential burglar alarm systems work and the effectiveness
> of police agencies that usually despise the alarm companies who waste
> police resources with a 90% false alarm rate. Your not protecting
> your family with a $30 a month burglar alarm system. All you're doing
> is giving yourself a false sense of security.
Funny, thats not what the ADT commercial advertises. All those ones and
zeros forming a protective barrier, even their slogan "always there". And
btw, it's largely the fault of ADT and other lick and stick give aways that
the market has been swamped with poorly installed, false alarm generating
systems.
>Almost all residential
> alarm signals are false alarms. The vast majority of alarm company
> generated police dispatches are for false alarms.
Again, thanks in large part to ADT and others who put RMR above all else.
>Alarm calls receive
> the lowest police dispatch priority.
No they don't. They fall in between priority one calls and cold crimes where
no suspect info is known.
>Some jurisdictions have stopped
> responding to alarm signals at all. Others charge a permitting fee
> and a steep false alarm penalty. You can debate the reasons for this
> and who's fault it is, but the fact remains, this industry depends on
> a misguided public perception of mysterious, circling 1's and 0's that
> protect families with magical powers and instantaneous response from
> concerned law enforcement. This is what is shown on television
> commercials and what the alarm salesmen tell the unsuspecting public.
Ah, the ADT commercial.
> The good news is that there is pressure on the industry to fix this.
> There are emerging technologies such as video analytics that could
> replace traditional security systems with much more reliable
> technology. The false alarm penalties and third party alarm response
> laws will force the trunkslammers and zero down marketers to rethink
> their strategies.
Where do you get the stones? Your company has totally fucked up this
industry, and it's perception by public and police. Now you have the
chutzpah to say:
"The good news is that there is pressure on the industry to fix this.
There are emerging technologies such as video analytics that could
replace traditional security systems with much more reliable
technology. The false alarm penalties and third party alarm response
laws will force the trunkslammers and zero down marketers to rethink
their strategies."
So, you're done pissing on the industry, and like a dog you kick dirt on it
and move on down the block, never looking back. Great.
>My guess is that we'll see the most radical shift
> that we've ever experiences in this industry within the next 5 to 10
> years. With IT companies like IBM and Cisco wanted part of the
> security integration market, it's just a matter of time before someone
> comes alaong and does it better that what we have right now. It's
> already started in the high end goverment/ industrial markets.
I have to agree with that, there is a lot of room for improvement.
js
alarman
>
> You come meet me somewhere. Do it now.
Oooh. Kin I watch??
js
Roland Moore
lines? Yes. Feeble attempts to defeat the alarm? Yes. Not that though. A
brick put through a window? Sure, all the time.
"Doug" <n...@home.com> wrote in message
news:AGU2h.201452$SV1.1...@newsfe09.phx...
G. Morgan
wrote:
>Leucks rule of life #3: Don't call someone you you don't really know while
>drunk and spill your life's story
Ha!
What's 1&2?
G. Morgan
wrote:
Tell ya what,
Why don't you ask Kelby?
Get back to me on that one.
He's also a lawyer, btw.
G. Morgan
wrote:
>This should be fun.
You failed to answer my challenge, puss.
Anytime- I'll give you what's coming..
Everywhere Man
OK
> Get back to me on that one.<
No problem. Should I get back to you at your parents home, or is this
address still good?
Jeffrey Morgan
937 Red Bird Ln
Allen, TX 75013-4887
(972) 359-0094
> He's also a lawyer, btw. <
Yeah and?
Have another drink, Jeffy.
Frank Olson
> One of the people who posts here has copied the original FAQ for the newsgroup
The Group's FAQ can be found here:
Everywhere Man
G. Morgan wrote:
> On 3 Nov 2006 19:19:29 -0800, "Everywhere Man" <alarmi...@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
> >This should be fun.
>
>
> You failed to answer my challenge, puss. <
Challenge? LOL I'm shitting in my pants.
> Anytime- I'll give you what's coming.. <
Sure you will. Have another drink. Work up that internet courage.
It's going to be a very long weekend for a head case like you worrying
who might call who, and what they might talk about. With your history
of job loss (at least 9 in 9 years) it's no surprise you'd be scared,
but then again FEAR is why you're on meds. Well, FEAR and DEPRESSION.
Now if there were ever two words that least described a MAN it would be
those two.
Man alive that package store owner will see you so much this weekend
he'll think he's starring in Groundhog Day Part 2.
Mark Leuck
> On Fri, 3 Nov 2006 21:37:39 -0600, "Mark Leuck" <m..leuck@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Leucks rule of life #3: Don't call someone you you don't really know
while
> >drunk and spill your life's story
>
>
> Ha!
>
> What's 1&2?
Buy the book when it comes out and you'll find out, or wait for the movie
J. <jsloud2001
wrote:
>
>Where do you get the stones? Your company has totally fucked up this
>industry, and it's perception by public and police. Now you have the
>chutzpah to say:
>
It's not my company. I don't own it. The work that I do doesn't have
anything to do with the low down residential lick and stick 2 doors
and a motion illusion of security that's sold by ADT dealers and their
corporate high volume residential program. You're right about one
thing, they're in business to make money and nothing else. ANSC or
RMR as you call it, is king. Of course, long term profitability does
require some level of competence, and ADT has been making money for a
long time. Personally, I'm in business to make enough money to buy
the things I need to support my family and hopefully retire before I
hit 70. Hopefully ADT/ Tyco does well and my stock earns a decent
return.
I know a lot of people in this industry working for a whole lot of
different companies. You can bash ADT all you want, but the vast
majority of local and regional companies do business just like ADT.
They use the same type of equipment. The monitoring procedures are
the same. The pricing is very similar. Contract language is the
same. The systems perform the same way. What make's you so
different?
Crash Gordon
then he had the nerve to call and ask us how to hook up his audio equipment
to our prewire....jerk.
i swear i'm gonna install a 900 number for people like that to call into.
"alarman" <alarm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:uCU2h.842$736...@newsfe16.phx...
Don
"Crash Gordon" <webm...@siriussystems.invalid> wrote in message
news:454c970d$0$501$815e...@news.qwest.net...
Crash Gordon
"alarman" <alarm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:TUU2h.850$736...@newsfe16.phx...
Roland Moore
in small dirt ball low end residential is not much as you point out.
Rather than bash ADT I'll let them continue to do that for and to
themselves. All I can say is that ADT has and continues to generate more new
business for us than any dozen salesman could. I have known of a lot
customers that have positive things to say about their security services
provider. ADT never makes that list. For details as to why give me your
phone number and I'll call you on speaker phone next time I am in front of
the soon to be ex ADT customer so you can hear it first hand. It is not very
exciting however. Most customer provided ADT diatribes sound the same after
the first one or two you hear. To get the exact text of the diatribe go out
some night a find a nest of sleeping hornets and put them in a big zip lock
bag. Next morning vigorously shake the bag and put it to you ear. Sounds
just like the ex ADT customers do.
"J. @netscape.net>" <jsloud2001<removeme> wrote in message
news:mk2pk2lj7vm5m9h5c...@4ax.com...
alarman
Well, I care about the quality of the systems I install. Those systems are
reliable, and not prone to false alarm. I answer the telephone when people
call for service, even after hours. I look for ways to keep my costs down do
that I do not have to raise my monitoring prices every year. I don't promise
people things only to take it away with the small print in a contract. I
show up on time. I don't make people wait two weeks for service, and then
send out some dope who doesn't know what he's doing.
Shall I go on??
js
alarman
> absolutely.
> then he had the nerve to call and ask us how to hook up his audio
> equipment
> to our prewire....jerk.
> i swear i'm gonna install a 900 number for people like that to call into.
Wouldn't work. People like that will call the number, then dispute the
charge on their credit card.
js
alarman
> Yah, but it's gonna cost you 499 per month
LOL Pay per View. Watch Tom stomp the dogshit out of Graham every Tuesday.
Two shows on Sunday.
js
news.comcast.net
>> just "grab it out of the air" either when he spoke of you.<
>
> nasty bastard I am....
Actually, I was thinking how I'd been wrong about you... and that has
nothing to do with Cracker. It has more to do with the fact that you alone
among a certain group have shown some humanity.
'Nuff said (maybe not. I've got to think about some stuff)
Crash Gordon
prewire is the builder is a personal friend otherwise I never sell just a
prewire.
"Don" <d...@ld.net> wrote in message
news:nL03h.1330$GE1...@bignews7.bellsouth.net...
Crash Gordon
homeowner had a false alarm on one of his two motions, their CS could tell
him which one (go figure on a 5 zone system...why you couldn't tell which
pir it was...dunno). Anyway they suggested he have service go out and take a
look at it. That was October 2...no one ever called him so he called them
back a week later...after a few apologies they then recommend he CALL ME.
Huh? Ok, well I used to run service for them 10 years ago, under contract
with them but not anymore. So I went out and took it over, and he calls them
to make sure his cancellation went through and they wouldn't continue to
bill him. They acted surprised he was cancelling...this was Oct 22 when we
took it over...guess when he finally received a call from
"service"?...yep...the day after he canceled Oct 23....21 days late.
The client is thrilled with us and wants to expand his system from 3 doors
and 2 pirs...to all openings, more smokes and a couple of gbs...something he
didn't want to do with the other company because he didn't have much faith
in them.
Oh, yeah...the false alarm on the pir was that his wife left a burning
candle on the dining room table.
Clients like to talk to the "owner"...or at least a familiar voice when they
call. My clients are surprised that I remember them when they call...I say
how could I forget you?...you put food on my table!
I also prefer to do biz with small companies...try trading ADT for a house
paint job or a new transmission :-)
"alarman" <alarm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:J_13h.18$_k4...@newsfe15.phx...
RobertM
purpose is to give the homeowner enough warning so he can grab his shotgun
and send the mothers into the next county when they break in. To be legal I
must let them enter the house and be facing me and I must feel threatened.
That's a given because no thief breaks in to wish the homeowner a pleasant
evening. No fair shooting a thief in the back unless one is good at body
disposal and cleanup.
Bob
"J. @netscape.net>" <jsloud2001<removeme> wrote in message
news:upjnk2do56kass64l...@4ax.com...
>
>
> A burglar alarm does not guarantee a family's safety. That's a
> terrible perception that depends on the public's misinformed ideas
> about how residential burglar alarm systems work and the effectiveness
> of police agencies that usually despise the alarm companies who waste
> police resources with a 90% false alarm rate. Your not protecting
> your family with a $30 a month burglar alarm system. All you're doing
> is giving yourself a false sense of security. Almost all residential
> alarm signals are false alarms. The vast majority of alarm company
> generated police dispatches are for false alarms. Alarm calls receive
> the lowest police dispatch priority. Some jurisdictions have stopped
> responding to alarm signals at all. Others charge a permitting fee
> and a steep false alarm penalty. You can debate the reasons for this
> and who's fault it is, but the fact remains, this industry depends on
> a misguided public perception of mysterious, circling 1's and 0's that
> protect families with magical powers and instantaneous response from
> concerned law enforcement. This is what is shown on television
> commercials and what the alarm salesmen tell the unsuspecting public.
>
> The good news is that there is pressure on the industry to fix this.
> There are emerging technologies such as video analytics that could
> replace traditional security systems with much more reliable
> technology. The false alarm penalties and third party alarm response
> laws will force the trunkslammers and zero down marketers to rethink
> their strategies. My guess is that we'll see the most radical shift
> that we've ever experiences in this industry within the next 5 to 10
> years. With IT companies like IBM and Cisco wanted part of the
> security integration market, it's just a matter of time before someone
> comes alaong and does it better that what we have right now. It's
> already started in the high end goverment/ industrial markets.
>
> J.
>
> On 3 Nov 2006 15:06:36 -0800, "Everywhere Man" <alarmi...@aol.com>
> wrote:
> .
>>All of the Brinks negatives aside look at what this guy is saying. He
>>lives in a nice neighborhood, so the house wasn't cheap, he's having a
>>hard time justifying $27 a month for family safety, and he's making the
>>world aware of this on his $1000.00 computer which accesses the
>>internet for probably $25 a month.
>>Talk about having fucked up priorities.
>>
>>
>>Crash Gordon wrote:
>>> Basically you throw out the alarm panel and the keypads and buy
>>> something
>>> else you can install your self. Everything else should be reusable
>>> although
>>> you might have to look for buried resistors if they put them at the end
>>> of
>>> the line and remove them.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <to...@invalid.org> wrote in message news:843b90j...@ripco.com...
>>> |
>>> | Hello,
>>> |
>>> | I'm new here as well, and have looked for a FAQ for the group and came
>>> | up empty, and I hope my question isn't too basic!
>>> |
>>> | I've recently moved into a home that has a Brinks alarm system
>>> | installed, looks to have been installed in 2004. We opted not to
>>> | continue the rather pricey monthly monitoring service given the
>>> | neighborhood, and the proportion of time we spend at home. (The prior
>>> | owners I'm told were working out of the country and had it installed
>>> | due to their absence).
>>> |
>>> | Anyway, we have all this hardware, wired door and window sensors,
>>> | other sensors labeled as "PIR" devices (passive infrared if my
>>> | research is to believed?) inside the control box that I assume are the
>>> | motion detectors I see up on the walls of various locations in the
>>> | house. I'm thinking there's got to be a way to put all these goodies
>>> | to use with a do it yourself sort of setup that maybe could leverage
>>> | an internet or phone connection to call my cell phone in case of
>>> | trouble.
>>> |
>>> | The main box of the alarm has a circuit board that's about 8x4" with
>>> | no real identifying marks on it. I would have to assume I'd have to
>>> | get a new controller board for the DIY system and then just re-use all
>>> | the existing sensors?
>>> |
>>> | Anyone with experience doing the same?
>>> |
>>> | Thanks for any insight or advice, or a pointer to some good jumpstart
>>> | resources for reading/research.
>>> |
>>> | Best Regards,
>>> | Todd
>
Roland Moore
"Crash Gordon" <webm...@siriussystems.invalid> wrote in message
news:454dd3d4$0$10301$815e...@news.qwest.net...
Roland Moore
free toe tags if you pay a year in advance. In our state you must properly
tag the game you kill. I bet Boone and Crockett will have some trophy point
system really soon.
Also in our state all you have to be is threatened with serious bodily harm.
No need to let him come inside the house. Oh yes you can shoot them in the
back too if they are a fleeing felon, which includes almost any property
crime after dark you witness. But you still have to tag them and no extra
points Boone and Crockett are issued. Now if someone would come up with a
free ammo with monitoring deal that would be sweet.
I know you wrote your post tongue in cheek, and I responded in kind, but
what you suggest actually happened not to far from here. The home owner
waited patiently while the bad guy pried open his back door with a simple
screw driver. The home owner literally cut him into with a shotgun blast
(both barrels). Since the home owner was not hispanic and the guy that broke
in was, there was some buzz about it. Everyone complianed the home owner was
too blood thirsty and hated minorities and should have held the guy there at
gun point until the cops arrive. In his own way I guess he kind of did make
the bad guy stay there until the cops arrived. He was no billed by the grand
jury of course. I think the home owner tried to file suit against the bad
guy's estate for the broken door and clean up costs too. That's pretty hard
core. At least he didn't field dress the bad guy's corpse and claim the pelt
to try to sell pieces of it on ebay.
"RobertM" <Re...@newsgroup.com> wrote in message
news:eikoa2$mvm$1...@news04.infoave.net...
Crash Gordon
"Roland Moore" <rol...@corridor.net> wrote in message
news:MIl3h.5581$lx6....@tornado.texas.rr.com...
Doug
Doug
--
"Crash Gordon" <webm...@siriussystems.invalid> wrote in message
news:454e3f5e$0$506$815e...@news.qwest.net...
Crash Gordon
burglar twice while he was in the house then popped him again on the way
out. Cops said she was a pretty good shot. Problem is he lived, he'll
probably sue her now.
"Roland Moore" <rol...@corridor.net> wrote in message
news:xqm3h.5587$lx6....@tornado.texas.rr.com...
Roland Moore
called homo heights. Or I could sell it to a company called Gay Alarm
Service. Yes and boy to I love those phone calls when you say "yes ma'am"
and the voice on the other end of the line says "I am not a Ma'am."
It's not the situation itself that is bad it is the "discovery" process that
can make you lose lunch. "Hi fellas! Just move that stuff in the closet out
of the way and get busy". Hum..Mask, cuffs, whips, strange vials of oily
looking substance, a large chest and no sign of real female stuff anywhere.
Not a good find. That is way too much information about the customer to put
on a service ticket. But it would be nice to know before you're inside the
house already. Maybe codes like flaming Napco panel in closet. Hot battery
harness wired in parallel for DC only. I am sure everyone has their share
creepy stories to tell. I am glad we don't do much residential work and no
bars presently, gay or otherwise. Thanks for the offer to have the
industry's first sissy service truck, but I won't take advantage of that
offer at this time..
"Crash Gordon" <webm...@siriussystems.invalid> wrote in message
news:454e3f5e$0$506$815e...@news.qwest.net...
Bob Worthy
> long time.
Ahhh...only if they would pay their taxes.
Personally, I'm in business to make enough money to buy
> the things I need to support my family and hopefully ADT/ Tyco does well
and my stock earns a decent
> return.
Despite the whole financial world telling them to dump it, it is broken and
can't be fixed? Hope you don't have all your eggs in one basket or at 70
you'll be a greeter at WalMart.
> I know a lot of people in this industry working for a whole lot of
> different companies. You can bash ADT all you want, but the vast
> majority of local and regional companies do business just like ADT.
No they don't. The vast majority can't do business like ADT or they would be
gone tomarrrow.
> They use the same type of equipment.
ADT uses the same equipment as the vast majority, not the other way around.
ADT had to change in order to support their marketing program.
> The monitoring procedures are
> the same.
Which is a CSAA and ANSI standard.
> The pricing is very similar.
Only amoungst the other nationals that are doing similar marketing.
>Contract language is the
> same.
Law is law and protective language can be only stated in so many ways.
> The systems perform the same way.
Not necessarily. That is more dependent on the quality of installation and
set up than the intended, out of box, manufacturers specs.
What make's you so
> different?
Dedication to customer service.
J. <jsloud2001
<secu...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>"J. @netscape.net>" <jsloud2001<removeme> wrote in message
>news:mk2pk2lj7vm5m9h5c...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 3 Nov 2006 20:41:35 -0800, "alarman" <alarm...@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>You're right about one
>> thing, ADT has been making money for a
>> long time.
>
>Ahhh...only if they would pay their taxes.
>
> Personally, I'm in business to make enough money to buy
>> the things I need to support my family and hopefully ADT/ Tyco does well
>and my stock earns a decent
>> return.
>
>Despite the whole financial world telling them to dump it, it is broken and
>can't be fixed? Hope you don't have all your eggs in one basket or at 70
>you'll be a greeter at WalMart.
Bullshit. Almost everyone rates Tyco a hold right now. See below.
Quick stock tip, the Tyco breakup will probably make money for a lot
of people in 2007. Not rocket science to figure out how.
Analyst Opinion
Get Analyst Opinion for: TYCO
RECOMMENDATION SUMMARY*
Mean Recommendation (this week): 2.5
Mean Recommendation (last week): 2.4
Change: 0.1
Industry Mean:
Sector Mean:
S&P 500 Mean: 2.48
* (Strong Buy) 1.0 - 5.0 (Strong Sell)
>
>> I know a lot of people in this industry working for a whole lot of
>> different companies. You can bash ADT all you want, but the vast
>> majority of local and regional companies do business just like ADT.
>
>No they don't. The vast majority can't do business like ADT or they would be
>gone tomarrrow.
>
>> They use the same type of equipment.
>
>ADT uses the same equipment as the vast majority, not the other way around.
>ADT had to change in order to support their marketing program.
>
What are you talking about? ADT has had a contract with Ademco for 10
years. They've been using a version of the Vista 20 for at least 7 or
8 years for residential installations. ADT uses EST, Bosch, DMP,
Ademco, Notifier, Fire-Lite, etc. on the commercial side and has for
years. It's the same equipment as the rest of the industry. It's
better equipment than most dealers can get there hands on, ie. EST3,
DMP, Bosch, etc.
>> The monitoring procedures are
>> the same.
>
>Which is a CSAA and ANSI standard.
ADT pioneered many of the procedures and equipment used throughout the
industry, but that's irrelevant. ADT also meets UL and DoD
requirements for monitoring SCIFs, but that's irrelevant too. Point
is, ADT's monitoring services meet or exceed all industry regulations.
>
>> The pricing is very similar.
>
>Only amoungst the other nationals that are doing similar marketing.
ADT's residential pricing is in line with the majority of local
companies. The US corporate pricing for an outright sale system is
generally inline with prices I've seen quoted on this newsgroup.
Starts at about $350 for a V20P, a keypad, and three sensors. Goes up
from there. A full perimeter system in a decent size house is a
couple of grand, usually.
>
>>Contract language is the
>> same.
>
>Law is law and protective language can be only stated in so many ways.
>
>> The systems perform the same way.
>
>Not necessarily. That is more dependent on the quality of installation and
>set up than the intended, out of box, manufacturers specs.
>
> What make's you so
>> different?
>
>Dedication to customer service.
>
In other words, not much at all...
Jim
I just heard that Tyco stock went up becuse of the breakup .....
contrary to going down when management had it's problems.
Also, in my experience in quoting against ADT residential, if they're
not proposinga lick and stick job, they're always much higher than most
everyone else that quotes on the job. That might be an area thing. NY
tri-state area.
Bob Worthy
> On Tue, 7 Nov 2006 09:22:27 -0500, "Bob Worthy"
> <secu...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >"J. @netscape.net>" <jsloud2001<removeme> wrote in message
> >news:mk2pk2lj7vm5m9h5c...@4ax.com...
> >> On Fri, 3 Nov 2006 20:41:35 -0800,
hopefully ADT/ Tyco does well
> >and my stock earns a decent
> >> return.
> >
> >Despite the whole financial world telling them to dump it, it is broken
and
> >can't be fixed?
> Bullshit. Almost everyone rates Tyco a hold right now. See below.
> Quick stock tip, the Tyco breakup will probably make money for a lot
> of people in 2007. Not rocket science to figure out how.
I am not talking about some broker hawking their wares. I am talking about
the folks, in the financial world, (which is not your stock broker or your
401K manager) that have looked at the company (ADT) and their creative
accounting practices, scandels, lawsuits, tax burden, etc. Hell, they are
still dabbling with their 1999 books to explain why they didn't pay over $50
million in taxes that year. You said it best "Almost" everyone.....with the
rest happy to make a couple of dollars on their stock now and then. The
stock increase, in the recent past, has had to do with the break-up, which
was suggested by who, the financial world who suggested they get rid of ADT,
and was driven by who, the stock holders, and was finally, after 3 years,
done by who, a new board of directors try to salvage it. Not being
argumentative, but I do have dealings, since I am just down the street from
the Tyco building in Boca, with several top ranking folks in that office, as
well as, NJ. Were they lieing about what had been happening?
> >> I know a lot of people in this industry working for a whole lot of
> >> different companies. You can bash ADT all you want,
I don't have to bash ADT. They have made their own bed, which is well
documented. How many companies, can you name, that have had as many fines
levied on them by different Attorney General's offices around the country as
ADT. Name one company that has had to pay a single fine in excess of a
million dollars to any single jursidiction. Can you name the jurisdiction
that, after receiving and paying a fine for over $100,000, continued with
the same practices until they were caught and received another fine in
excess of $140,000. More money than brains, I guess, or is it a "we really
don't give two hoots about your silly state laws or how much it costs us"
attitude.
>>>but the vast
> >> majority of local and regional companies do business just like ADT.
Local and regional companies don't support authorized dealership programs,
allow unlicensed activity, within their programs, for personal gain, allow
their state license to get suspended by ignoring state law, continue to
violate state law and simply pay the fines when caught, shall I go on? You
may be to far removed from what goes on in the streets, with ADT, to comment
on these issues. I am not bashing ADT, just stating what is already out
there. If you don't like the smell, don't open the can.
> >> They use the same type of equipment.
> >
> >ADT uses the same equipment as the vast majority, not the other way
around.
> >ADT had to change in order to support their marketing program.
>
> What are you talking about? ADT has had a contract with Ademco for 10
> years. They've been using a version of the Vista 20 for at least 7 or
> 8 years for residential installations.
And they were using Moose and ITI products prior to that. They allowed their
dealers to use a wide range of products, to include DSC, Caddix and FBI. You
are talking to someone who worked with ADT folks here in Florida, Houston
and San Antonio, TX, as well as, San Francisco in the late 80's. I did
extensive work for ADT on their high end residential, for the two years
after Hurricane Andrew, in the early 90's. I was close to the ADT people
that opened and recruited for the dealership program, when it started, and
was in close contact with their attorney in Boca during the demise of that
same program, which included knowledge of the raiding of a dealers office
with the Broward Sheriff's Office due to allegations of drugs and other
illegal activities. Boy did that one stay quiet. I am not someone who is
only guessing at what has happened to ADT over the last 20 years.
ADT uses EST, Bosch, DMP,
> Ademco, Notifier, Fire-Lite, etc. on the commercial side and has for
> years.
And I am removing a Focus system that was installed not more than three
years ago in a commercial application. The clients ageement just expired.
> It's the same equipment as the rest of the industry.
Yes it is, however, the rest of the industry did not follow ADT's lead to
this equipment as you suggested earlier.
>It's better equipment than most dealers can get >there hands on, ie. EST3,
> DMP, Bosch, etc.
What? Are you saying that dealers can't obtain this equipment? Come on! Any
dealer can get any equipment they choose. I have been approached by many of
these type companys to become a dealer for them, as have most other licensed
companys.
> >> The monitoring procedures are
> >> the same.
> >
> >Which is a CSAA and ANSI standard.
>
> ADT pioneered many of the procedures and equipment used throughout the
> industry, but that's irrelevant.
Most of it was in recent history because they were previously using
proprietary stuff for years. It wasn't until they started shutting down alot
of their central locations, switching stations, etc. that they when more
conventional. As fas as procedures go, that is irrelevant.
ADT also meets UL and DoD
> requirements for monitoring SCIFs, but that's irrelevant too. Point
> is, ADT's monitoring services meet or exceed all industry regulations.
OK
> >> The pricing is very similar.
> >
> >Only amoungst the other nationals that are doing similar marketing.
> ADT's residential pricing is in line with the majority of local
> companies. The US corporate pricing for an outright sale system is
> generally inline with prices I've seen quoted on this newsgroup.
> Starts at about $350 for a V20P, a keypad, and three sensors. Goes up
> from there. A full perimeter system in a decent size house is a
> couple of grand, usually.
What you are missing is that ADT is ultimately responsible for all the crap
that they allow their authorized dealers to do. It is irresponsible for a
company to start, build, and profit from a program and than not accept any
responsibility for the actions of the participants of the program. I can't
tell you how many conversations I have had with the ADT attorney on this
issue. In all fairness, he does send me a copy of the nasty gram he sends
the dealer, when they get out of line, but the bottom line is that the
dealer doesn't stop and ADT still funds the agreements. In other words ADT
is not interested in enforceing their dealer contract as long as that dealer
is producing. And......yes ADT corporate does have a higher price line but
who drove that? The financial folks we talked about earlier and the
accounting fiasco that ADT has themselves in. They couldn't continue with
the "free" program or the $99 dollar program after that. It took a change of
the Board to move in that direction. With their pricing, they don't write
the amount of business they used to, so they continue to put the leads out
to the authorized dealers whether they are conducting business illegally or
not.
> > What make's you so
> >> different?
> >
> >Dedication to customer service.
>
> In other words, not much at all...
Ahhh.......It doesn't take me two to three weeks to get to a service call.
That is a huge difference and I think most here, that are actually dealing
with the end user, has come across this same end user concern. But, it is
understandable. How many technicians does it take to service 5,000,000
customers in a timely fashion? You can call it being a victim of their own
success but that isn't very comforting to the end user. You know this is a
problem for them when they are on a mission to hire sub contract service
techs. I get this call every couple of months, so I know it is happening.
Mark Leuck
"Bob Worthy" <secu...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:n5n4h.10913$3L....@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
>
> "J. @netscape.net>" <jsloud2001<removeme> wrote in message
> news:a3a2l2lb673nv8qpi...@4ax.com...
> > On Tue, 7 Nov 2006 09:22:27 -0500, "Bob Worthy"
> > <secu...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> > It's the same equipment as the rest of the industry.
>
> Yes it is, however, the rest of the industry did not follow ADT's lead to
> this equipment as you suggested earlier.
I don't know what you mean by this, our primary panel is the Vista-15P/20P
which was used by ADT long before any regular dealer could get their hands
on it. Also the 8132 Symphony Internet keypad. a large number of peripherals
including some GE stuff all created for ADT but now for everyone
The only equipment that I can think of where the rest of the industry didn't
follow is with that Napco Freedom panel.
>
> >It's better equipment than most dealers can get >there hands on, ie.
EST3,
> > DMP, Bosch, etc.
> What? Are you saying that dealers can't obtain this equipment? Come on!
Any
> dealer can get any equipment they choose. I have been approached by many
of
> these type companys to become a dealer for them, as have most other
licensed
> companys.
Actually it is much harder to get the above equipment compared to the
standard stuff, especially DMP. Bosch isn't that much easier
Bob Worthy
"Mark Leuck" <m..leuck@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:9vOdnfZUJu7i78_Y...@comcast.com...
>
> "Bob Worthy" <secu...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:n5n4h.10913$3L....@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
> >
> > "J. @netscape.net>" <jsloud2001<removeme> wrote in message
> > news:a3a2l2lb673nv8qpi...@4ax.com...
> > > On Tue, 7 Nov 2006 09:22:27 -0500, "Bob Worthy"
> > > <secu...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >
> > > It's the same equipment as the rest of the industry.
> >
> > Yes it is, however, the rest of the industry did not follow ADT's lead
to
> > this equipment as you suggested earlier.
>
> I don't know what you mean by this
It goes further back than the panels listed below. I am sure ADT had
relationships with several manufacturers to customize product, private
label, etc. for many years. I just remember, here in south Florida when they
went to, for their resi installs, a conventional panel simply private
labeled. Everyone was already using this or similar equipment prior to ADT
using it. J made it sound like it wasn't until ADT started using these
panels that the rest of the industry followed suit. Then when the dealership
program started, again at least here in south Florida, ADT was accepting
almost all major brands of panels the dealers wanted to install. I remember
the memo going out to the dealers listing six or seven different panels they
would accept, which were all readily available over the counter and had been
being used by the majority of the industry. There was no standardization at
all. I do understand that, some of what ADT had made for them at one point,
is now available to open distribution, but is that an agreement between ADT
and the manufacturer that if certain quantities are not met, the product
goes on the open market? I don't know.
> our primary panel
Didn't know you worked for ADT. I probably haven't been around the NG long
enough to have picked up on that.
> is the Vista-15P/20P
> which was used by ADT long before any regular dealer could get their hands
> on it. Also the 8132 Symphony Internet keypad. a large number of
peripherals
> including some GE stuff all created for ADT but now for everyone
Do you think ADT, because of their mere size, may be a beta test site for
product from these manufacturers? I am sure it would be smart, once all the
approvals have been received, to use an ADT, give them a great price, to get
it out in the market prior to putting it on the shelves. And...Iam sure, at
times, ADT has gone back to these manufactures with specific requirements
they want in a panel for instance. But I don't think, because there are so
many choices out there, that companies are deciding on equipment just
because it is what ADT is using. If I misunderstood J's post, I apologize,
but it is hard to interpet things through his defense of ADT sometimes. He
is definately a homer. I would bet his performance reviews are right up
there.
>
> The only equipment that I can think of where the rest of the industry
didn't
> follow is with that Napco Freedom panel.
Now their advertisement is on the inside cover of all the trade rags this
month.
> > >It's better equipment than most dealers can get >there hands on, ie.
> EST3,
> > > DMP, Bosch, etc.
>
> > What? Are you saying that dealers can't obtain this equipment? Come on!
> Any
> > dealer can get any equipment they choose. I have been approached by many
> of
> > these type companys to become a dealer for them, as have most other
> licensed
> > companys.
>
> Actually it is much harder to get the above equipment compared to the
> standard stuff, especially DMP. Bosch isn't that much easier
Yah..you do have to jump through some hoops to get to be a dealer. I realize
you can't readily get these products through normal distribution, but if you
choose to be a dealer and want to jump through the hoops, a legitimate
company can become a dealer for any of these companies. Protected
territories may be the only hurdle that could cause a problem, however, I
haven't seen where they are that concerned about protecting territorys.
>
>
J. <jsloud2001
<secu...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> J made it sound like it wasn't until ADT started using these
>panels that the rest of the industry followed suit.
I actually just said "same equipment." I really don't know who was
using the Vista panels when ADT switched from Moose in the mid-90's.
I don't know much about the dealer program equipment choices. Most of
the ones I've dealt with installed low end Ademco, but I know there
are other options. ADT itself has agreements with Ademco to make all
the regualr resi panels and the Focus 200/ Cadet. The small biz panel
is DSC. The Napco Freedom panel was originally developed for ADT as a
low end easy to operate system. The first generation wasn't well
received, but I hear they've improved it some. About a year after ADT
started selling it as the Safewatch EZ, Napco released it through
distribution as the Freedom. It's an interesting concept with at
least some potential to help eliminate false alarms.
>
>Do you think ADT, because of their mere size, may be a beta test site for
>product from these manufacturers? I am sure it would be smart, once all the
>approvals have been received, to use an ADT, give them a great price, to get
>it out in the market prior to putting it on the shelves.
I'm not sure about the residental side, but on my side of the
business, ADT has an R&D group that seeks out new technology and works
with manufacturers to develop it. There are several projects we're
involved in right now with the US government to develop homeland
security technology. One that has been made public is called
Operation Safe Commerce. Yuo should be able to google that one.
>And...Iam sure, at
>times, ADT has gone back to these manufactures with specific requirements
>they want in a panel for instance.
That's how the Focus 200 versions have been done through Ademco.
> But I don't think, because there are so
>many choices out there, that companies are deciding on equipment just
>because it is what ADT is using. If I misunderstood J's post, I apologize,
>but it is hard to interpet things through his defense of ADT sometimes. He
>is definately a homer. I would bet his performance reviews are right up
>there.
I'm really not that much of a homer. You guys are tough. I
understand that most people here only see the ADT resi/ dealer side of
the company. ADT had real issues with the Tyco-fueled acquisition
rampage in the late 90's through 2003. With Slink alone, we added 1
million accounts. That was tough to manage. The dealer program also
spun out of control during this time as well, probably because the
people responsible for oversight were focused on the acquisitions. I
hear the dealer thing has drastically improved and ADT stopped buying
companies and now is focused on organic growth and lowering attrition.
By the way, Tyco is keeping the "Tyco International" name for the new
company that will consist of Fire and Security, the engineering group,
and the safety products group. Essentially, they're spinning off
heathcare and electronics into separate companies. ADT currently
accounts for about 10% of Tyco's revenue. With the new company, ADT
will be about 30% giving ADT a much bigger role in determining the
stock's performance. ADT is Tyco's biggest producer of cash and
essentially operates without debt, so it's viewed by management as an
asset and is supposed to be the cornerstone of the new Tyco.
boble...@gmail.com
http://reviewhomesecuritysystems.com
Jim
> On Friday, November 3, 2006 1:26:07 PM UTC-4, to...@invalid.org wrote: > Hello, > > I'm new here as well, and have looked for a FAQ for the group and came > up empty, and I hope my question isn't too basic! > > I've recently moved into a home that has a Brinks alarm system > installed, looks to have been installed in 2004. We opted not to > continue the rather pricey monthly monitoring service given the > neighborhood, and the proportion of time we spend at home. (The prior > owners I'm told were working out of the country and had it installed > due to their absence). > > Anyway, we have all this hardware, wired door and window sensors, > other sensors labeled as "PIR" devices (passive infrared if my > research is to believed?) inside the control box that I assume are the > motion detectors I see up on the walls of various locations in the > house. I'm thinking there's got to be a way to put all these goodies > to use with a do it yourself sort of setup that maybe could leverage > an internet or phone connection to call my cell phone in case of > trouble. > > The main box of the alarm has a circuit board that's about 8x4" with > no real identifying marks on it. I would have to assume I'd have to > get a new controller board for the DIY system and then just re-use all > the existing sensors? > > Anyone with experience doing the same? > > Thanks for any insight or advice, or a pointer to some good jumpstart > resources for reading/research. > > Best Regards, > Todd The thing with security systems is that you never know when you need one. Best to be safe and protect your family. Just call and have them reconnect the service. It's relatively inexpensive, in my opinion. http://reviewhomesecuritysystems.com
Don't people look at the frikin date of a post anymore?
The OP is probably divorced, remarried and living in another state by now and owns a whole new alarm system.
Bob La Londe
news:7ba0c683-743e-44a1...@googlegroups.com...
cold call would be productive?
Jim
sp...@fullstrut.com
> WTF! > > Don't people look at the frikin date of a post anymore? > > The OP is probably divorced, remarried and living in another state by now > and owns a whole new alarm system. So do you know if he moved to Yuma? Got a phone number? Do you think a cold call would be productive?
>
>
>
> It was a Brinks system so as fate would have it .... he moved down to Florida ... near Jim R.
http://www.integratedsecurityprofessionals.com/
Jim
> On Saturday, December 15, 2012 1:19:36 PM UTC-5, Jim wrote: > WTF! > > Don't people look at the frikin date of a post anymore? > > The OP is probably divorced, remarried and living in another state by now > and owns a whole new alarm system. So do you know if he moved to Yuma? Got a phone number? Do you think a cold call would be productive? > > > > It was a Brinks system so as fate would have it .... he moved down to Florida ... near Jim R. I haven't been here in a while, you guys are a tougher bunch a "baystads" than ever. LOL http://www.integratedsecurityprofessionals.com/