Napco vs. Ademco
G. Morgan
I don't like Napco panels. Zone "doubling" is the dumbest thing I have ever
seen. They are difficult to operate for the user, and damn near impossible to
hand program.
Why does everyone in here favor Napco? Give me an Ademco any day. Right - Left
polling loop so what? I can see the program in a Ademco system way easier than
a cryptic Napco. The EZM's are also flocked up. The addressing is so
confusing, try to train a new tech on this.
Napco can "bite it". But since I have no choice, I have to service them. You
want to know who likes Napco? The guy who sits in the chair and buys them,
expecting everything to go smooth. Well guess what, I spend more time
explaining how these stupid thing work than installing them.
Sure, I'll get a few Napco supporters replying to this. But in general the
reason they are purchased is because they are "reliable" in lightning and they
are offer more features, for less. I've heard both sides. Give me an Ademco
anytime over that crap. I'll take a Vista-128 over a Gem 3200 any day.
Graham
Andy Bowman
"G. Morgan" <gra...@hot.rr.com> wrote in message
news:sr4frugkoi9sgbv8s...@4ax.com...
> Why does everyone in here favor Napco? Give me an Ademco any day.
Right - Left
> polling loop so what? I can see the program in a Ademco system way easier
than
> a cryptic Napco. The EZM's are also flocked up. The addressing is so
> confusing, try to train a new tech on this.
I don't know that everyone here does favor Napco. I know one fellow here
that plugs it endlessly and both Bob L. and Jim appear to use it routinely,
but I've always got that DSC is the most prominent brand used here.
Personally my favs are DSC and Caddx.
Napco does seem to make very flexible panel. That said though, I hate their
keypads. I've also heard they are a bit more complex to work with, plus
they're more expensive. DSC is by far my pick, but I do use Caddx as well in
some instances. I've used Ademco in the past but I don't care for it myself.
--
Sincerely,
Andy Bowman
www.AlarmSystemStore.com
m..leuck
"Andy Bowman" <a...@alarmsystemstore.com> wrote in message
news:UhNt9.997$ah4.3...@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "G. Morgan" <gra...@hot.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:sr4frugkoi9sgbv8s...@4ax.com...
>
> > Why does everyone in here favor Napco? Give me an Ademco any day.
> Right - Left
> > polling loop so what? I can see the program in a Ademco system way
easier
> than
> > a cryptic Napco. The EZM's are also flocked up. The addressing is so
> > confusing, try to train a new tech on this.
>
>
> I don't know that everyone here does favor Napco. I know one fellow here
> that plugs it endlessly and both Bob L. and Jim appear to use it
routinely,
> but I've always got that DSC is the most prominent brand used here.
> Personally my favs are DSC and Caddx.
Napco on my end is a blip on the screen compared to Ademco, DSC, Caddx, ITI
and even Linear. Most favor the Gem P800/801 over the higher stuff, my guess
is the more complicated programming
Bob La Londe
news:EVOt9.84459$%d2.32817@sccrnsc01...
>
> "Andy Bowman" <a...@alarmsystemstore.com> wrote in message
> news:UhNt9.997$ah4.3...@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > "G. Morgan" <gra...@hot.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:sr4frugkoi9sgbv8s...@4ax.com...
> >
> > > Why does everyone in here favor Napco?
Used to be customer service. I used to use FBII. They weren't the most
advanced, but they wer rock solid for reliability. Then the whole BORG thing
started to happen and FBII introduced some wireless junk. I called every
manufacturer in the industry. Napco was the only one to Fed-Ex every piece of
information I asked for to me the very next day and have their field rep contact
me the same day. (Since then I haven't gotten as good of customer service.)
>>> Give me an Ademco any day.
> > Right - Left
> > > polling loop so what?
I won't go down that road, but I have found Ademco to be slightly behind other
manufacturers in features when I last evaluated them. On the other hand, since
you are very familiar with them I am sure you can get them to do things I can't.
> I can see the program in a Ademco system way
> easier
> > than
> > > a cryptic Napco.
Napco does take some learning, but they have two programming modes. A menu
driven mode that gives you the ability to do a fast and dirty setup in a minute
or two for basic installations, and an address driven mdoe that I think is a bit
confusing, but allows you complete control of the system. I have to say the
address driven programming isn't much worse than programming a DSC PC 3000 from
an LED keypad.
Used the PCD3000 software and a laptop and most of the confusion goes away. In
fact I really like the F7 trouble check mode whic lets you know if you have
conflicting programming. It also contains context based F2 help and per screen
F1 help on almost every programming option. If something is confusing hit the
button it it tells you.
> The EZM's are also flocked up. The addressing is so
> > > confusing, try to train a new tech on this.
> >
I don't see your point there. You set the addresses sequentialy. If its a 4
zone module it takes one address. If its an 8 zone module it takes two. I
guess that could be kind hard for some techs. Try explaining it graphically.
Draw a picture of the zones and addresses stacking up. I have had more trouble
though explaining the RP1CAe2 and RP1CA keypads. "Ok, the keypad address is 1,
but the expansion address is 6," really confuses some guys. Worse when they
made both keypads... gah!!!
> >
> > I don't know that everyone here does favor Napco. I know one fellow here
> > that plugs it endlessly and both Bob L. and Jim appear to use it
> routinely,
Napco is my main panel and I am slowly bringing in Caddx for some of the high
end larger installs due to their expansion modules with full supervision for
power etc... I understand that some of the newer DSC panels have similar
expansion modules. I probalby have about equal numbers of FBII and Napco in the
field.
> > but I've always got that DSC is the most prominent brand used here.
I didn't get that take at all, but we all see through rose colored glasses eh?
> > Personally my favs are DSC and Caddx.
>
> Napco on my end is a blip on the screen compared to Ademco, DSC, Caddx, ITI
> and even Linear. Most favor the Gem P800/801 over the higher stuff, my guess
> is the more complicated programming
The P-800 is a piece of cake to program. I usually take about a minute to go
through the run book, and then maybe that long to actually program it. I
haven't done a P-801, but it looks the same. The P-800 is one of the easiest
small panels I have every programmed including the DSC P5XX and P15XX as well as
the FBI XL2(x) panels that I have programmed in the past.
>
> > Napco does seem to make very flexible panel. That said though, I hate
> their
> > keypads.
I have heard that people think their keypads are ugly. I have lost sales due to
that, or had to offer a different brand of control panel. I wish that Napco
would atleast come out with a neat door cover version of their top of the line
RP1CAe2, a neat keypad like that for the P-800 would be nice too.
>> I've also heard they are a bit more complex to work with, plus
> > they're more expensive.
I don't find them any more complex than a Caddx or DSC Maxsys. In fact I think
the top of the line Caddx is much more complex. As to price.... Except for
some of the lines I have quit using I find them to be very competitive. My
favorite Napco for the average installation is a P1632 Intropak. I realize many
do not like zone doubling, but it comes with the capability for 20 zones right
out of the box.
As to Zone Doubling. YOu ealize all the Caddx NX panels offer zone doubling as
well, and as near as I can estimate they are more expensive than Napco.
--
Bob La Londe
The Security Consultant
http://www.diycomponents.com
849 S Ave C
Yuma, Az 85364
(928)782-9765 ofc
(928)782-7873 fax
ROC 103044, C-12
ROC 103047, L-67
Terry Buyers
and fill the can with concrete they make pretty good door stops.
Terry Buyers
New Ellenton, SC
"G. Morgan" <gra...@hot.rr.com> wrote in message
news:sr4frugkoi9sgbv8s...@4ax.com...
Frank Olson
Vista 50 is pretty well bullet proof. Good panel. A bit difficult to
program for those that find reading lengthy manuals difficult. Napco's
got good product. Loved their 2600, but if you ever programmed one from
the keypad, you'll know it's a "bear". I was on a job for a company in
Langley. The guy that "said" he was familiar with the PCD3000 software
didn't know it from Adam. I was installing the panel and expected to be
able to relay the appropriate information so it could be downloaded to
the panel. To make a long story short, I wound up programming the
sucker from the keypad. Multiple partitions (5), about 50 user codes,
and 4 zone expanders. FUN!
--
Frank Olson
http://www.alt-security-alarms.com
Free listings for qualified industry professionals & suppliers.
Visit the unofficial web site to view FAQ and participant information.
G. Morgan
-0400,
>Best thing I've found about Ademco panels is if you throw the board away
>and fill the can with concrete they make pretty good door stops.
>
> Terry Buyers
> New Ellenton, SC
Ouch!! That was direct! What do find annoying about them specifically? The
Vista-128 is better than any Napco Iv'e seen. Smart card access, addressable
devices, and very flexible programming - that is easy to read on the keypad.
And the user is easily trained with the Ademco's.
I really do want feedback. If you have a problem with the *newer* Ademcos
please let me know. I have a issue I need to resolve.
Thanks for the post,
Graham
G. Morgan
03:11:34 GMT,
>. I was installing the panel and expected to be
>able to relay the appropriate information so it could be downloaded to
>the panel. To make a long story short, I wound up programming the
>sucker from the keypad. Multiple partitions (5), about 50 user codes,
>and 4 zone expanders. FUN!
NOT! Those suckers are not worth the time to program by hand. And congrats.
that you actually did it. It's very easy to make a mistake hand programming one
of those beasts. The keypads are not user friendly, and the programing is a
bitch. I find Ademco's line way more thought out. It's really not hard to hand
program a Vista 128 or 32 if you get the "hand" of it. But I'm sure that Napco
pros will say the same thing. Remember who invented "contact id", you have to
give credit where it's due.
Graham
Robert L. Bass
that "the guy" didn't know the PCD3000 software, especially since it
couldn't program the 2600 if "the guy" was the most experienced Napco
installer in all history.
Now don't get too defensive yet, Franky. I'm not finished with you yet.
Where exactly did you enter the FIVE PARTITIONS in the MA-2600 panel? Do
tell us all how you got that going. I'm dying (laughing) to hear how you
managed that one.
But wait!!! Let's not stop just yet, Olson. Tell me how you got 50 user
codes into the MA-2600. In fact, I'll make it easier for you. Just tell me
where you stored the 17th user code. Now don't start some crap about the
access code (there is only one) or the ambush code (1- or 2-digit prefix
turns any user code into a "duress" code.
Admit it, Franky. You just told another lie. You never installed an
MA-2600 in your life, much less programmed one. I can hardly wait to watch
you try to dance your way out of this one, Olson. Consider yourself down
for the count, moron.
Regards,
Robert L Bass
=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
The Online DIY Alarm Store
http://www.Bass-Home.com
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota, FL 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
941-925-9747 Fax
rober...@comcast.net
=============================>
>... Loved their 2600, but if you ever programmed one from
Frank Olson
> I installed a hundred or two of the 2600 panels. I'm not at all surprised
> that "the guy" didn't know the PCD3000 software, especially since it
> couldn't program the 2600 if "the guy" was the most experienced Napco
> installer in all history.
>
> Now don't get too defensive yet, Franky. I'm not finished with you yet.
> Where exactly did you enter the FIVE PARTITIONS in the MA-2600 panel? Do
> tell us all how you got that going. I'm dying (laughing) to hear how you
> managed that one.
>
> But wait!!! Let's not stop just yet, Olson. Tell me how you got 50 user
> codes into the MA-2600. In fact, I'll make it easier for you. Just tell me
> where you stored the 17th user code. Now don't start some crap about the
> access code (there is only one) or the ambush code (1- or 2-digit prefix
> turns any user code into a "duress" code.
>
> Admit it, Franky. You just told another lie. You never installed an
> MA-2600 in your life, much less programmed one. I can hardly wait to watch
> you try to dance your way out of this one, Olson. Consider yourself down
> for the count, moron.
Real simple Robert. I got the model number wrong. Sorry. It was a
3000, not a 2600.
Robert L. Bass
Now you're lying again, Franky. You claimed you put in four (4) expanders.
The MA-3000, unlike the MA-2600 which you previously lied about having
installed, has precisely eight -- count 'em -- eight zones on the panel.
Four 8-zones expanders + 8 on the mother board makes forty (that's right,
Franky, 40) zones. In your original lie you claimed to have installed 50
zones on the panel.
I deliberately let that ride when I pointed out your first lie since I knew
you'd try to dodge and say it was a 3000. That's why you didn't realize you
needed to change your story -- again. To do 50 zones on a Napco MA-3000 you
would need (6) zone expanders.
You never installed an MA-3000 in your life, Franky.
Frank Olson
Nope... 50 user codes, not 50 zones. Read the post again.
Frank Olson
<some more silly stuff>
I don't recall how many zones we had on the panel. We didn't use them
all. The zone expanders were there because of the size of the building
and the convenience of not having to home run all the wires.
It seems that lately you have a real "hard on" for me, Robert.
Unfortunately I don't "swing" that way so you'll have to go elsewhere.
You've spent some time contacting some "major" dealers and distributors
in BC about me. That tells me that I'm accomplishing something. I hear
business is pretty slow these days for you. I'm sure that I make a
convenient scape-goat, but I really don't think you can place the whole
burden of blame on me. If you had been getting business from the group,
perhaps you should reflect on your behaviour here, and look a little
closer to home for the cause of your present "troubles".
You don't engender a great deal of respect or sympathy in the group
(with the exception of your sock puppets) so your "opinions" don't mean
a whole heck of a lot (to me at least). I never once said I was
perfect. I do make mistakes although they are few and far between (sort
of like you, I guess).
Have a pleasant evening and don't sweat the small stuff. By the way
this isn't in any way a reference to the size of your... ummmm... van...
Robert L. Bass
have never installed either of those panels.
Frank Olson
> So you made one correct guess. You got everything else WRONG because you
> have never installed either of those panels.
It was years ago, Robert. Many years ago... As I said earlier, I work
mostly with DSC and Ademco (for security). Installed ONE DAT 5000 panel
(CN Rail was in love with the things) for the same small outfit in
Langley that sold the Napco 3000. I always seemed to get these "one of"
jobs with this outfit, but the nice thing is they were a challenge both
intellectually and physically. Their sales guy didn't know diddly and
won orders based on price. They then turned to me to "make it work".
They didn't last long because they were invariably priced too low for
the sheer scope of some of their jobs. Yeah, you'll twist all this
around too... I already know what you're going to say... That's scary
for me because I'm not really psychic. I just know you better than I
ever wanted to. :-(
Robert L. Bass
>
> It was years ago, Robert. Many years ago...
Suuure, Franky. If you say so. But you and I both know you're an
inveterate liar.
Robert L. Bass
"Frank Olson" <feo...@alt-security-alarms.com> wrote in message
news:3DB8E178...@alt-security-alarms.com...
> Robert L. Bass wrote:
>
> <some more silly stuff>
>
>
>
> I don't recall how many zones we had on the panel.
Or how you got out of inverted flight at 5000 AGL in a jet airliner.
> We didn't use them all.
You didn't install any of them.
> The zone expanders were there because...
> of the size of the building and the convenience
> of not having to home run all the wires.
You would have needed even more expanders in that case -- not just the four
you lied about.
> It seems that lately you have a real
> "hard on" for me, Robert.
What a vulgar comment. This is a security news group, Olson. Take your
filth elsewhere.
> Unfortunately I don't "swing" that way
> so you'll have to go elsewhere.
We're not interested in your sexual preferences, no matter how strange.
This is not the proper forum to discuss that sort of thing.
> You've spent some time contacting some
> "major" dealers and distributors in BC
> about me.
You don't like turnabout, do you? The difference is I only asked if they
knew you. Only one (a dealer, not a distributor) had ever heard of you.
That correlates with all the other lies you've told about yourself here.
> That tells me that I'm accomplishing something.
Nice tyo know you're accomplishing something. Heretofore it appears you've
accomplished nothing at all. Perhaps that's why you make up all these
stiories of vast experience, personal heroism, authority over air traffic
disaster investigations, etc. You've really done nothing on this planet to
make anyone notice you at all. Bored and disheartened with your nobody
existence, you fantasize about being an accomplished businessman, a heroic
adventurer and a Napco installer.
Unfortunately, you not only post all kinds of easily disproven lies about
yourself but you also have made it a project to try to harm my business. If
you were just telling all your stupid "war stories" trying to impress the
newbies here, I'd have ignored you. But since you try to do me harm I will
make it a point to expose you for the incompetent, inexperienced liar that
you are.
> I hear business is pretty slow these days for
> you.
I manage all right.
> I'm sure that I make a convenient scape-goat...
I was thinking of you as another 4-legged beast of burden, actually.
Frank Olson
> Or how you got out of inverted flight at 5000 AGL in a jet airliner.
Good thing I wasn't flying it, eh??
> You would have needed even more expanders in that case -- not just the four
> you lied about.
Are you psychic?? Have you seen the building? Interesting you can make
such a comment.
> What a vulgar comment. This is a security news group, Olson. Take your
> filth elsewhere.
It's an expression. Some might consider it "vulgar". Most of the guys
here are familiar with it. I'm surprised you're not.
> We're not interested in your sexual preferences, no matter how strange.
> This is not the proper forum to discuss that sort of thing.
You should know.
> You don't like turnabout, do you? The difference is I only asked if they
> knew you. Only one (a dealer, not a distributor) had ever heard of you.
> That correlates with all the other lies you've told about yourself here.
Considering you phoned all the "major" dealers, and I've already told
you I worked for smaller mid sized businesses, I'm surprised you found
ANYONE that "knew" me. What Turnabout? For what? I've told nothing
but the truth. I've never harassed your suppliers. I've never harassed
people's employers either. You've done both and are willing to do it
again given the opportunity. I choose not to give you that opportunity.
My licensing isn't an issue here. I don't even advertise ANY of my
companies on the http://www.alt-security-alarms.com web site and won't.
It goes against my principles and a promise I made to myself when I
conceived the idea. Your principles are more "dynamic" (read less
rigid/not fixed) as are those of a couple of other individuals that post
here. On the other hand, if I did list the security company then you'd
have a valid argument for full disclosure.
You're not an alarm company. Your not a qualified installer or service
technician. You have a problem, Robert. It's not with me, or even with
the group. Try looking in the mirror for the answer. I've got no
problem with anything you might try from down in FL. It is proof
positive that you are one devious snake, and certainly justifies my NOT
satisfying your curiosity. I know full well that if I posted my resume
here you'd be harassing every one of the companies listed there. You
forget. I've seen what you're capable of. I'm also sure you'll recall
when "Ms Cleo" and a bunch of low-lifes started posting the addresses
and telephone numbers of dozens of Olsons and Olsens in this forum (all
from the telephone directory). The last thing I need is some nameless
jerk (let alone one I "deal with" every day) harassing MY friends,
business associates and family.
> But since you try to do me harm I will
> make it a point to expose you for the incompetent, inexperienced liar that
> you are.
You do more harm to yourself.
> I manage all right.
Good for you.
> I was thinking of you as another 4-legged beast of burden, actually.
I didn't know a "goat" was considered a beast of burden.
Frank Olson
> Try reading the post. I also contacted all the distributors in your area.
> None had ever heard of you.
Hmmmm... that's funny. Who'd you talk to??
> If you were a partner as you lied in any
> distributor or dealership there would be at least one distributor who knew
> who you are.
Yep! At least one does... :-)
> If you worked anywhere in the industry for the years you lied,
> at least some other dealers would know about you.
Lot's of dealers know me, just not the one's you called. I'm sure the
same goes for you if I picked some out of the phone book.
> You lie every time you open your mouth.
Yeah... Prove it!
> Funny. That's not what they said.
Who said? Name one!
> Me neither.
Google says different.
> However, if you appear to be using your employer's network or
> PC to harass other dealers, he's entitled to know about that.
Agreed. I've posted "my bosses" contact info before. You want it again?
> I've never harassed anyone's employer for any reason. I did forward some
> posts where some jerk made threats of violence against myself and the
> airplane I was flying to the owners of the network he used. He seems to
> have retired from that job. :^)
I seem to recall hearing about a lady, not a guy... I guess that makes
at least two you've harassed (your words, not mine).
> You've made a very public effort to hurt my business,
I've corrected some misrepresentations and provided some clarification.
Nothing more.
> made libelous attacks on me personally and my company,
If you really think so, have your Lawyer send me an email stating where,
when, and how I've "hurt" you.
> harassed my suppliers
Never have. I was up front about what it was I asked. The ONLY company
I mentioned your name to was DSC (and you know the reason why).
> and generally been a naughty boy.
Are you gonna spank me, Uncle Bobby?
> You think you're hiding but you're wrong. Keep it up, Olson.
> I won't do anything unfair or dishonest like you have done.
Name one thing I've done that's unfair or dishonest. Provide verifiable
proof as well.
> I'll simply
> pass on your exact words -- all of them from every post -- to those who do
> business with you.
I've no problem with that. How about I do the same with all of yours?
> I'll include full headers with date and time posted. I
> have no plans to make any accusatuions whatsoever. If you get into trouble
> with your boss/partner/whoever for wasting company time harassing people on
> the news group, it will be your own words that cause it.
Ditto, Robert.
> It seems you don't have one. The provincial government hasn't any idea who
> you are either.
You obviously didn't ask the right questions.
> Oooh, *ANY* of them! Olson now wants us to think he owns a bunch of
> thriving enterprises. Sure, Olson.
Yup. Two.
> You have no principles.
This applies to you, not me.
> You're talking to yourself?
Can anyone blame me?
> You're pregnant?
Nope... The rabbit's still alive.
> You haven't any idea. But get ready. I won't do any of the things you've
> tried to do to me. I'll just let your own vicious words expose you.
What goes around, comes around.
> There's only one person who used to call himself "Miss Cleo."
Prove it. I can't.
> You recommend his business on your fraud web site.
"Fraud web site" is a libellous statement. It's been posted from your
computer and is authored by you. Apologize immediately.
> The only participant here who has done that did it to me. He's listed on
> your web site as a "recommended" online dealer.
Sorry. I don't "recommend" anyone. I list qualified industry
professionals and suppliers. There's hope for you though, Robert. It's
sitting out there in plain view. You haven't seen it yet because you
don't "read" well. I'll give you a clue. It starts by pressing the
"email" button at http://www.alt-security-alarms.com. Look down the
page. Something there should look interesting. There are some rules
though. We'll go over them if you decide to ask about it.
Robert L. Bass
> 5000 AGL in a jet airliner.
>
> Good thing I wasn't flying it, eh??
Especially since it never happened.
>> You would have needed even more
>> expanders in that case -- not just the
>> four you lied about.
>
> Are you psychic??
Are you psychotic?
> Have you seen the building?
> Interesting you can make such a comment.
>> What a vulgar comment. This is a security
>> news group, Olson. Take your filth elsewhere.
>
> It's an expression. Some might consider it "vulgar".
Only vulgar dolts would consider it anything else.
> Most of the guys here are familiar with it.
> I'm surprised you're not.
I'm familiar with gutter language. That does not mean I use it.
>> We're not interested in your sexual preferences,
>> no matter how strange. This is not the proper
>> forum to discuss that sort of thing.
> Considering you phoned all the "major" dealers,
> and I've already told you I worked for smaller
> mid sized businesses, I'm surprised you found
> ANYONE that "knew" me.
Try reading the post. I also contacted all the distributors in your area.
None had ever heard of you. If you were a partner as you lied in any
distributor or dealership there would be at least one distributor who knew
who you are. If you worked anywhere in the industry for the years you lied,
at least some other dealers would know about you.
> What Turnabout? For what? I've told nothing
> but the truth.
You lie every time you open your mouth.
> I've never harassed your suppliers.
Funny. That's not what they said.
> I've never harassed people's employers either.
Me neither. However, if you appear to be using your employer's network or
PC to harass other dealers, he's entitled to know about that.
> You've done both and are willing
> to do it again given the opportunity.
I've never harassed anyone's employer for any reason. I did forward some
posts where some jerk made threats of violence against myself and the
airplane I was flying to the owners of the network he used. He seems to
have retired from that job. :^)
> I choose not to give you that opportunity.
You've made a very public effort to hurt my business, made libelous attacks
on me personally and my company, harassed my suppliers and generally been a
naughty boy. You think you're hiding but you're wrong. Keep it up, Olson.
I won't do anything unfair or dishonest like you have done. I'll simply
pass on your exact words -- all of them from every post -- to those who do
business with you. I'll include full headers with date and time posted. I
have no plans to make any accusatuions whatsoever. If you get into trouble
with your boss/partner/whoever for wasting company time harassing people on
the news group, it will be your own words that cause it.
> My licensing isn't an issue here.
It seems you don't have one. The provincial government hasn't any idea who
you are either.
> I don't even advertise ANY of my companies...
Oooh, *ANY* of them! Olson now wants us to think he owns a bunch of
thriving enterprises. Sure, Olson.
> It goes against my principles...
You have no principles.
> ...and a promise I made to myself...
You're talking to yourself?
> ... when I conceived ...
You're pregnant?
> ... You forget. I've seen what you're capable of....
You haven't any idea. But get ready. I won't do any of the things you've
tried to do to me. I'll just let your own vicious words expose you.
> I'm also sure you'll recall when "Ms Cleo"
> and a bunch of low-lifes started posting the
> addresses and telephone numbers of dozens
> of Olsons and Olsens in this forum (all from
> the telephone directory).
There's only one person who used to call himself "Miss Cleo." You recommend
his business on your fraud web site.
> The last thing I need is some nameless
> jerk (let alone one I "deal with" every day)
> harassing MY friends, business associates
> and family.
The only participant here who has done that did it to me. He's listed on
JamChst
>got good product. Loved their 2600, but if you ever programmed one from
>the keypad, you'll know it's a "bear". I was on a job for a company in
>Langley. The guy that "said" he was familiar with the PCD3000 software
>didn't know it from Adam. I was installing the panel and expected to be
>able to relay the appropriate information so it could be downloaded to
>the panel. To make a long story short, I wound up programming the
>sucker from the keypad. Multiple partitions (5), about 50 user codes,
>and 4 zone expanders. FUN!
>
I used to use Napco all the time. The 2600 and lack of backwards compatibility
has caused a lot of headaches. Anyone have a 2600 account with 5 keypads? Try
to find a replacement board, expander or keypad.
I have a few Vistas out there but I've started to use DSC exclusively. MaxSys
on large Systems and Power series on small systems.
The only panel I've found as easy to program as a MaxSys is the Optex/ Morse
MDC Series.
Best Alarm Tech
Napco Best DL Hook-Up
Napco Wireless Signal Strength VIA DOWNLOADER !!!
Napco More Quaility Keypad.
Napco K/P Ezm Combo.
Napco ZONE ANDING & Relay/Output Boards!!!
Napco Bidirectional Key Fob (should have been software programable).
Napco Local Downloade pci2000 Mini.
Oh Then There Is That Lightning THING NAPCO.
But I Used APEX AT HOME
RC
South Florida Lightning Captial
Robert L. Bass
Regards,
Robert L Bass
=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
The Online DIY Alarm Store
http://www.Bass-Home.com
2291 Pine View Cir
Sarasota, FL 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Support
941-925-9747 Fax
rober...@comcast.net
=============================>
"Best Alarm Tech" <rc3...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:d31e77f9.02103...@posting.google.com...
Alarminex
(JamChst) writes:
>Subject: Re: Napco vs. Ademco
>From: jam...@aol.com (JamChst)
>Date: 29 Oct 2002 20:11:16 GMT
I have quite a few 2600's out and when/if something goes bad, all you have to
do is send it back for repair. I've got a couple of keypads I've had repaired
and keep in stock. I've got 2 zone expanders to use as replacements if needed
and I don't expect I'll be adding on to too many 2600's rather than replacing
them for newer panels. I've got a couple of spare panels I've pulled out of old
jobs, just in case one goes bad.
It was well publicized when the Gemini panels were introduced that the MA 2600
was the end of the line for the Magnum series. The 2600 was as far as that
technology could go. Same thing happened to the Ademco 5600 series wireless
panels years ago. I've still got some of those systems working too. As some of
the systems are replaced, I save the equipment and when those that are still
working, have a problem, I use the parts that I've saved from the old job. You
should be able to collect enough parts from tear outs to set up some spares as
replacements.
If you are not using the Napco line just because of the discontinuing of the
2600, you'd better be on the alert with which ever manufacturer you are using
now. Some time, some place, some day, they're going to discontinue a line with
out backward compatability also. Sometimes it just better to cut the cord than
make the dealers pay for technology that is just fading from use or is dead end
technology. It's a better investment for all concerned, in the long run, to
start at the bottom of the ladder with an expandable new product, that can
unfold for the next decade and be compatable with new technology as it is
discovered.
>
>
Jim
Remove the Qzapp to email
Nomen Nescio
>If you are not using the Napco line just because of the discontinuing of the
>2600, you'd better be on the alert with which ever manufacturer you are using
>now. Some time, some place, some day, they're going to discontinue a line with
>out backward compatability also. Sometimes it just better to cut the cord than
>make the dealers pay for technology that is just fading from use or is dead end
>technology. It's a better investment for all concerned, in the long run, to
>start at the bottom of the ladder with an expandable new product, that can
>unfold for the next decade and be compatable with new technology as it is
>discovered.
Still, it galls me when any manufacturer discontinues support for their old
panels and keypads. You know the game they're playing: they want you to
buy a new panel with new keypads, because they make more money that way.
Yes, you can keep some repaired keypads laying around for service, but I
always feel a little guilty when I have to tell someone their "new" keypad
is actually a repaired product.
To put this in perspective, a friend of mine is a big Porsche fan.
Apparently, you can still get most, if not all the parts for their 30 year
old cars. He tells me that Porsche occasionally fires up one of their
assembly lines specifically to make some old part, just so they have some
on the shelf for people. I can't personally vouch for that, but it sure
would be a nice way to do business.
- badenov
Frank Olson
> To put this in perspective, a friend of mine is a big Porsche fan.
> Apparently, you can still get most, if not all the parts for their 30 year
> old cars. He tells me that Porsche occasionally fires up one of their
> assembly lines specifically to make some old part, just so they have some
> on the shelf for people. I can't personally vouch for that, but it sure
> would be a nice way to do business.
>
> - badenov
It's true about Porsche, BMW and Daimler/Mercedes.
One more thing:
American industry spent MILLIONS of dollars on Research and Development
to perfect a pen that could write in space.
The Russians bought a couple of HB pencils and a sharpener.
I still haven't figured out how some Senate sub-committee can justify
the expenditure of $18,464.00 on a plastic toilet seat for the Airforce.
I guess it sounds better if you say it's a seat for a "throne"...
:-)
Nomen Nescio
>What can they do? Should Ademco have not discontinued the 1025? C&K kept
>parts for the Eclipse? Manufacturers end replacement parts are expensive to
>keep in inventory. I would have a problem if they discontinued something
>that was say only 5 years old but the 2600 was almost 15 years old.
I guess I didn't explain that very well. I was mostly thinking about
keypads, and maybe some other small parts that are needed to keep a system
in service. Yes, eventually you have to stop making 1025's. (and in the
case of the 1025, Ademco waited too long :-) )
Where I get annoyed is when you have a system with four keypads, and one
keypad goes bad--as keypads do. Now you get to tell the owner that his
keypad is bad, only they don't make them anymore, so he's going to have to
buy a new control panel, four new keypads, and maybe some other parts that
aren't compatible. You look like a thief, replacing an entire system
because a keypad failed. Or, maybe you happen to have a used or repaired
keypad on hand--in which case you look bad because you're putting in used
parts. And of course, that supply of old parts only lasts so long, and
you're back to replacing an entire system.
At least some manufacturers have universal keypads, or at least keypads
that are compatible with old products. DMP keypads of today look entirely
different from the original keypads sold back in the early 1980's, but they
will directly replace those old keypads. Radionics, on the other hand, has
come out with about eight different keypads during that same time,
incompatible with each other. Ademco got the message too: their keypads
are crap, but at least they work on multiple panels.
- badenov
m..leuck
"Nomen Nescio" <nob...@dizum.com> wrote in message
news:5c3937cadf2d6bb0...@dizum.com...
>
> Still, it galls me when any manufacturer discontinues support for their
old
> panels and keypads. You know the game they're playing: they want you to
> buy a new panel with new keypads, because they make more money that way.
> Yes, you can keep some repaired keypads laying around for service, but I
> always feel a little guilty when I have to tell someone their "new" keypad
> is actually a repaired product.
What can they do? Should Ademco have not discontinued the 1025? C&K kept
parts for the Eclipse? Manufacturers end replacement parts are expensive to
keep in inventory. I would have a problem if they discontinued something
that was say only 5 years old but the 2600 was almost 15 years old.
>> To put this in perspective, a friend of mine is a big Porsche fan.
> Apparently, you can still get most, if not all the parts for their 30 year
> old cars. He tells me that Porsche occasionally fires up one of their
> assembly lines specifically to make some old part, just so they have some
> on the shelf for people. I can't personally vouch for that, but it sure
> would be a nice way to do business.
Porshe can afford to do and and the world has a ton of collectors hence high
demand, DSC, Napco and Ademco can't and don't have the same luxury
m..leuck
> Mark said:
>
> >What can they do? Should Ademco have not discontinued the 1025? C&K kept
> >parts for the Eclipse? Manufacturers end replacement parts are expensive
to
> >keep in inventory. I would have a problem if they discontinued something
> >that was say only 5 years old but the 2600 was almost 15 years old.
>
> I guess I didn't explain that very well. I was mostly thinking about
> keypads, and maybe some other small parts that are needed to keep a system
> in service. Yes, eventually you have to stop making 1025's. (and in the
> case of the 1025, Ademco waited too long :-) )
Same thing still applies, obsolete keypads sitting in a warehouse cost
manufacturers money when they'd rather that old stuff be changed out with
new stuff. I never relished changing out an old Napco (done a few 2600's)
but sometimes it just has to be done.
> Where I get annoyed is when you have a system with four keypads, and one
> keypad goes bad--as keypads do. Now you get to tell the owner that his
> keypad is bad, only they don't make them anymore, so he's going to have to
> buy a new control panel, four new keypads, and maybe some other parts that
> aren't compatible. You look like a thief, replacing an entire system
Been there done that, not fun but if you explain it as you would a computer
upgrade they tend to take it a little better since they have more than
likely already gone through buying new computers
> because a keypad failed. Or, maybe you happen to have a used or repaired
> keypad on hand--in which case you look bad because you're putting in used
> parts. And of course, that supply of old parts only lasts so long, and
> you're back to replacing an entire system.
I once had to replace an AT&T 8300 with a PC5010, I laid them both out on
the floor and explained to the customer that this tiny new panel did far
more than the old one and its cheaper. I got no complaint from them :)
> At least some manufacturers have universal keypads, or at least keypads
> that are compatible with old products. DMP keypads of today look entirely
> different from the original keypads sold back in the early 1980's, but
they
> will directly replace those old keypads. Radionics, on the other hand,
has
> come out with about eight different keypads during that same time,
> incompatible with each other. Ademco got the message too: their keypads
> are crap, but at least they work on multiple panels.
That can be a double edged sword, they are then locked into the older
technology when other companies have gone to bus type keypads that can do
more.
>
> - badenov
>
>
>
>
Alarminex
<nob...@dizum.com> writes:
>ubject: Re: Napco vs. Ademco
>From: Nomen Nescio <nob...@dizum.com>
>Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 07:00:06 +0100 (CET)
Granted .... it would be "nice" but I understand that the microtechnology in
the 2600 was the problem. It just couldn't be expanded anymore.
Also, your Porshe example it comparing a $60,000.00 car to a $120.00 alarm
panel.
And Napco hasn't stopped support ...... they will still repair and/or replace
anything sent back with "like new" equipment.
Alarminex
<nob...@dizum.com> writes:
>Subject: Re: Napco vs. Ademco
>From: Nomen Nescio <nob...@dizum.com>
>Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 08:30:06 +0100 (CET)
>
>Mark said:
>
>>What can they do? Should Ademco have not discontinued the 1025? C&K kept
>>parts for the Eclipse? Manufacturers end replacement parts are expensive to
>>keep in inventory. I would have a problem if they discontinued something
>>that was say only 5 years old but the 2600 was almost 15 years old.
>
>I guess I didn't explain that very well. I was mostly thinking about
>keypads, and maybe some other small parts that are needed to keep a system
>in service. Yes, eventually you have to stop making 1025's. (and in the
>case of the 1025, Ademco waited too long :-) )
>
>Where I get annoyed is when you have a system with four keypads, and one
>keypad goes bad--as keypads do. Now you get to tell the owner that his
>keypad is bad, only they don't make them anymore, so he's going to have to
>buy a new control panel, four new keypads, and maybe some other parts that
>aren't compatible. You look like a thief, replacing an entire system
>because a keypad failed. Or, maybe you happen to have a used or repaired
>keypad on hand--in which case you look bad because you're putting in used
>parts. And of course, that supply of old parts only lasts so long, and
>you're back to replacing an entire system.
>
Just take the keypad and send it back for repair and install the spare. What
more can the customer want? Even at that ..... you don't expect that you will
get the same exact keypad that you sent in ...... back from the repair
department ...... do you?
There's no customer that wouldn't accept the fact that they've got an old
system and if an item goes bad that it's got to be sent back to the factory for
repair. I've never had any objection to that at all.
VSS DOUG
him the benefit of your experience and teach him how to be a more competent
and experienced liar
Doug L
RLB wrote in reply to Frank Olson