Napco vs. ADT
Stuart Grief
I am in the process of selecting an alarm system for my home (2 floor
colonial, ~10 rooms). I have quotes from ADT and from an alarm company
who is proposing a Napco system. I'm leaning toward the Napco because I
understand it is more "open" than the ADT and central station monitoring
is significantly less expensive.
I have a number of questions that hopefully some of you can help with:
1) How would you compare Napco vs. ADT _equipment_ (ignore the central
station monitoring aspect for now...)?
2) Are there any particular Napco components/controls that I should be
avoiding or including in the system?
3) What are the options for linking to X-10 at some point in the future
(please be gentle with your answers - I'm an X-10 neophyte...)?
4) The contractor is proposing to wire the exterior screens covering
double-hung windows on the first floor instead of installing contacts
top and bottom because of the expense and difficulty in getting wiring
into the window frames. Seems like a good idea. Any thoughts?
4) Anything else I should know or be concerned about?
Thanks for your help!
Stuart
nedbal
I replaced my panel my self, I'm not presently in the business day to day
: 1) How would you compare Napco vs. ADT _equipment_ (ignore the central
: station monitoring aspect for now...)?
The typical napco is much more adaptable than the adt offered to the home
owner and just as reliable. and adt OWNS the equipment, You could opt
to own the napco stuff
: 2) Are there any particular Napco components/controls that I should be
: avoiding or including in the system?
keyfob? all custom alpha keypads that give zones in plain english
is a must
: 3) What are the options for linking to X-10 at some point in the future
: (please be gentle with your answers - I'm an X-10 neophyte...)?
in the napc gemini there is a add on module that will send x10
signals to x10 modules , it has "fair" x10 capabilities as compared
to a x10 based computer controlled interface. My guess for
a installer to add this on latter is about $200 and some programing.
if you want more details on this ask
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Art Doyle
Stuart Grief <gr...@highway1.com> wrote:
>I am in the process of selecting an alarm system for my home (2 floor
>colonial, ~10 rooms). I have quotes from ADT and from an alarm company
>who is proposing a Napco system. I'm leaning toward the Napco because I
>understand it is more "open" than the ADT and central station monitoring
>is significantly less expensive.
>
>I have a number of questions that hopefully some of you can help with:
>
>1) How would you compare Napco vs. ADT _equipment_ (ignore the central
>station monitoring aspect for now...)?
>
>2) Are there any particular Napco components/controls that I should be
>avoiding or including in the system?
>
>3) What are the options for linking to X-10 at some point in the future
>(please be gentle with your answers - I'm an X-10 neophyte...)?
>
>4) The contractor is proposing to wire the exterior screens covering
>double-hung windows on the first floor instead of installing contacts
>top and bottom because of the expense and difficulty in getting wiring
>into the window frames. Seems like a good idea. Any thoughts?
>
>4) Anything else I should know or be concerned about?
>
>Thanks for your help!
>
>Stuart
If you're looking at X10 for the "energy savings", don't. Go to the
store, buy compact fluorescent lamps and some of the Philips IQ (TM)
bulbs that turn themselves off after 10min of use. Use a good
Honeywell *independent* thermostat, and shade your house.
KISS rules.
Good Luck,
Art Doyle
Stuart Grief <gr...@highway1.com> wrote:
>I am in the process of selecting an alarm system for my home (2 floor
>colonial, ~10 rooms). I have quotes from ADT and from an alarm company
>who is proposing a Napco system. I'm leaning toward the Napco because I
>understand it is more "open" than the ADT and central station monitoring
>is significantly less expensive.
>
>I have a number of questions that hopefully some of you can help with:
>
>1) How would you compare Napco vs. ADT _equipment_ (ignore the central
>station monitoring aspect for now...)?
>
>2) Are there any particular Napco components/controls that I should be
>avoiding or including in the system?
>
>3) What are the options for linking to X-10 at some point in the future
>(please be gentle with your answers - I'm an X-10 neophyte...)?
>
>4) The contractor is proposing to wire the exterior screens covering
>double-hung windows on the first floor instead of installing contacts
>top and bottom because of the expense and difficulty in getting wiring
>into the window frames. Seems like a good idea. Any thoughts?
>
>4) Anything else I should know or be concerned about?
>
>Thanks for your help!
>
>Stuart
I am not an industry practitioner, so take what I say with a grain of
salt.
If your objective is to keep the national economy humming, and to
employ otherwise worthy individuals in the supervised destruction of
your home...by all means proceed.
If however, you are attempting to simply hold on to what you have
worked for, may I suggest a simpler solution?
1. Keep it simple. The more complex, the more likely it is to fail.
2. Use mass produced equipment. Napco, ADT, Taiwan Inc...it probably
comes from the same source these days and it is almost always good.
Look for very low component counts on the board. Best is a *single*
surface mount IC.
3. Consider restricting your sensor investment to IR detectors, and
use the money saved to *REPLACE* the vulnerable land line.
4. Find someone who can sell you an INDUSTRIAL grade cell phone (not
the cheapies the carriers give away), hook it to a GOOD backup power
supply, and a hidden Yagi antenna. Keep the radio transmission line
length short. Yes you will have a monthly cellular bill...but it is
getting better. In some cities $3/month fixed cost + $5.00 /call.
5. Use a good quality dialer and a good central monitoring station. I
use COPS (45 sec)...but there are probably others equally good.
6. Avoid the X10 junk.It's like the stuff that they hang onto
lawnmowers, as it falls off - one never replaces it, but the mower
runs fine.
7. Disarm your unit via a code rolling garage door opener receiver.
This allows for INSTANT alarm transmission upon entry.
I once had ~20ea X10 units, multiple wireless sensors, multiple
consoles & much other crap. Now I use a simple console, 4 IR
detectors, wieless link, remote disarm - and it works. Murphy doesn't
visit anymore.
Take your wife to Hawaii instead,
John Welton
Take a look at Savoy's Cyberhouse ver 2.0 page: http:\\savoysoft.com
It has some information on how their software interfaces with the Geminii
panel. Savoy will introduce a two-way interface in Jan so that the software
can control the relay board on the panel if that interests you. The key fob
has four keys - two to arm/disarm the panel and two others that are
programmable such as: open/close garage door, turn on outside lights, etc.
Good luck
Fightcrime
>I am in the process of selecting an alarm system for my home (2 floor
>colonial, ~10 rooms). I have quotes from ADT and from an alarm company
>who is proposing a Napco system. I'm leaning toward the Napco because I
>understand it is more "open" than the ADT and central station monitoring
>is significantly less expensive.
DO NOT GO WITH ADT!!!!
>I have a number of questions that hopefully some of you can help with:
>
>1) How would you compare Napco vs. ADT _equipment_ (ignore the central
>station monitoring aspect for now...)?
ADT will rape you for all you are worth and leave you wondering what
happened! The biggest problem is that ADT systems can ONLY be monitored by
and/or serviced by ADT!
>2) Are there any particular Napco components/controls that I should be
>avoiding or including in the system?
Napco makes very good equipment, any of their new lines would be
acceptable, but it all really depends on your needs.
>3) What are the options for linking to X-10 at some point in the future
>(please be gentle with your answers - I'm an X-10 neophyte...)?
ANY control panel may handle simple X10 "All Lights On or All Lights
FLASH" with the installation of a X10 Burglar Alarm Interface that would
allow the control panel to flash all X10 lights in the house when the
alarm is tripped.
>4) The contractor is proposing to wire the exterior screens covering
>double-hung windows on the first floor instead of installing contacts
>top and bottom because of the expense and difficulty in getting wiring
>into the window frames. Seems like a good idea. Any thoughts?
Excellant idea except that it is MORE expensive than installing contacts
in the windows! Alarm screens are usually a extra item above and beyond
standard magnetic contacts in the windows. BTW, almost nobody installs a
switch at the top AND bottom of a double hung, usually only the bottom.
David J. Rosso
Affordable Home Security Systems
===========================
Phone/Fax: 1-800-555-9205 ext.5120
http://members.aol.com/fightcrime
===========================
Fightcrime
>in the napc gemini there is a add on module that will send x10
>signals to x10 modules , it has "fair" x10 capabilities as compared
>to a x10 based computer controlled interface.
Fair? I have a Gemini system and installed the X10 interface and REMOVED
it the same afternoon! You can do more with two X10 burglar alarm
interface modules than the X10 interface would do! I was totally
dissatisfied with what the Napco GEMX10 Interface was capable of. This is
just my opinion.
Steve Ryckman
Stuart Grief wrote:
> 4) The contractor is proposing to wire the exterior screens covering
> double-hung windows on the first floor instead of installing contacts
> top and bottom because of the expense and difficulty in getting wiring
> into the window frames. Seems like a good idea. Any thoughts?
Alarm screens are more expensive than mag contacts but in general I like
them much more. When I ran an alarm company we only had one customer
that
paid for them, but I had them on my house and loved them. The nice
thing
about them is you can open and close windows without regards to the
alarm
being on (nice for middle of the night weather changes).
Most installers don't wire the top and bottom of a window though,
usually the
top side of a double hung will have a latch or pin on it to prevent it
from
being slid down except from inside. Some of the new vinyl windows won't
let
the top slide down unless the bottom is open already.
Personally though I did the screens because the house had really tall
windows in the living room and was built on a slab. In order to get the
wires to the bottom of the window would have been a nightmare unless I
used
exposed plastic conduit or something like that. The alarm screens
allowed me
to run the wires to the top of the window and have the whole window
protected.
We just moved in this house a little while ago and the windows are weird
sizes
so I have to send my frames to the manufacturer to have screens made
which
since we live in Texas, I'm waiting until summer when it's too warm to
have
the windows open so we don't need the screens. Right now all the
windows are
mag-switched and when I add the window screens I'll leave the switches
connected
but they'll be programmed as interior zones then so they can be bypassed
easily but keep the alarm screens armed.
Steve Ryckman
SIMS, Inc.
Computer Assistance Services
Stuart,
Take bids from more than just two companies, you've just scratched the
surface of the options that are available to you.Look at systems that
use DSC, Detection Systems, And other manufactures equipment.
Be sure to look at a system that uses the DSC832 control panel.
http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~ak921/p832/p832.html
Steve Ryckman
aa...@deltanet.com@deltanet.com wrote:
>
> In <32CE69...@pobox.com>, Steve Ryckman <sryc...@pobox.com> writes:
> >We just moved in this house a little while ago and the windows are weird
> >sizes
> >so I have to send my frames to the manufacturer to have screens made
>
> something equally unusual, you shouldn't need to send your screen frames
> to the screen manufacturer. You won't save any money, and in most
> cases, the screen frames you get from an alarm screen company are
> better quality than the original screens. Plus, who wants a new
> screen in an old, corroded frame?
That is true... in this case they have an odd "lip" on them that holds
them in place. My drawings of them yeilded a "never seen that before"
from two differant screen manufacturers (and I went to the Illinois
Drafting Finals in high school so you know my drawings were fairly
accurate and to scale). :-)
One of the guys I talked to said that he thought he could fabricate a
lip on new frames for me but wanted to see the real deal before trying
because he was afraid that the lip may interfere with cabling of the
screen itself.
Steve Ryckman
SIMS, Inc.
Steve Ryckman
aa-2@deltanet.com@deltanet.com
Robert L. Bass
If your screen frames are wooden, lip or no lip, have the alarm screen
company make an insert. We recently did a job in a 100+ year old mansion.
The inside-mounted screens were hinged on the side to swing in. Each
screen had a hole in the bottom rail to allow operation of the push-bar
mechanism to open the window.
The homeowner wanted to keep the original frames to maintain the period
appearance of the home. They had another contractor strip and re-finish
the frames.
I contacted Safe-Vue Security screens of Rhode Island (800) 346-7732 and
they made custom inserts for the screens. We made a dado in the frames
so you could not see the new metal inserts. Only the fabric is visible.
The connectors were run through the wood to a point near the hinges so
the leads don't show when the screens are closed. And the tamper magnets
are similarly buried in the wooden frames.
The homeowner was ecstatic with the results.
For more information on custom security techniques, please e-mail me.
RLBass
Robert L. Bass
I have information and specifications on the DSC Power 832 system
at my Web site at http://www.basshome.com/aisle84.html
I will shortly be posting complete technical data on the 832, as
well as the rest of the DSC line.
RLBass
Computer Assistance Services <in...@casweb.com> wrote in article
<32CE9C...@casweb.com>...
Robert L. Bass
Disclosure first: I compete with XXX, so I'm not entirely unbiased.
I also sell Napco products, among *many* others, over the internet.
But I'll give my honest opinion anyway.
First of all, BEFORE YOU BUY, contact your state's Department of
Consumer Protection. In many states, the DCP has a Division of
Professional Licensing. They often maintain public records of
complaints against contractors. One of my clients checked up on
a certain 3-letter, national alarm company whose name rhymes with
"Hey We See" in Connecticut and was told they had literally hundreds
of complaints about deceptive sales techniques, as well as faulty
equipment. I have heard many horror stories from victims of that
alarm company, whose name I shall not mention due to the large number
of lawyers who work for them.
I have installed hundreds of Napco systems over the past 17 years.
Their hardware is pretty hard to beat. They stand up well to static
and surges. The systems are quite flexible -- you can completely change
the "personality" of your system by programming the *many* features
on or off on a per-zone basis.
The newer Napco models, such ad the Magnum 3000 and the Gemini series,
are real powerhouses. They're in a totally different league than the
systems from XXX.
Also, the Napco can be monitored anywhere. Only ADT can monitor their
systems, since the proprietary ADT systems won't interface with any
other central station but ADT.
Alarm screens, when made properly, are about the best level of protection
for a residential alarm. They warn of intrusion before the thief even
gets to the window. They afford full protection even with the window wide
open. A system using comprehensive perimeter protection will always be
better protection than these "quick install" systems with just door and
motion protection. This is especially true when you're at home -- the
motion detectors have to be off, leaving you with little or no protection.
The screens and door sensors can be on all the time. A word to the wise,
though. DO NOT use EOL resistor supervision on a security screen with a
bottom-mounted "Molex" connector. Snow and rain will lower the screen's
resistance and cause a false alarm. Instead, use either a side or
top-mounted connector or a closed-loop alarm screen. If you don't know
what I mean, just pass on the request to your alarm installer. He will
order the screens in the proper configuration.
If you live in New England, try to get your alarm contractor to use
screens from a company called Safe-Vue Security. They are very reliable
and the screens they've made for me (1000's over the years) have been
consistently high quality. The owner, a guy named Chuck, is extremely
honest.
If you want an idea of the different Napco products and relative costs,
check them out on my Web site at http://www.basshome.com/aisle5.html
where I have several Napco systems on display.
Note: Please do not get mad at your alarm contractor when you see how
much less I charge than he does. He has to install the system for you
and I sell to do-it-yourselfers. He has higher overhead, too, so his
price will necessarily be several times what you'd pay direct. This is
not a solicitation. If your contractor is fair and honest, the price
will be well worth it.
As for systems to avoid, I usually don't install any brand new systems
until they've been on the market for at least 6 months or so. If anyone
proposes to include components from Visonic or Rokonet, find another
contractor.
Stuart Grief <gr...@highway1.com> wrote in article
<32CC13...@highway1.com>...
| I am in the process of selecting an alarm system for my home (2 floor
| colonial, ~10 rooms). I have quotes from ADT and from an alarm company
| who is proposing a Napco system. I'm leaning toward the Napco because I
| understand it is more "open" than the ADT and central station monitoring
| is significantly less expensive.
|
| I have a number of questions that hopefully some of you can help with:
|
| 1) How would you compare Napco vs. ADT _equipment_ (ignore the central
| station monitoring aspect for now...)?
|
| 2) Are there any particular Napco components/controls that I should be
| avoiding or including in the system?
|
| 3) What are the options for linking to X-10 at some point in the future
| (please be gentle with your answers - I'm an X-10 neophyte...)?
|
| 4) The contractor is proposing to wire the exterior screens covering
| double-hung windows on the first floor instead of installing contacts
| top and bottom because of the expense and difficulty in getting wiring
| into the window frames. Seems like a good idea. Any thoughts?
|
aa-2@deltanet.com@deltanet.com
In <32CF1F...@pobox.com>, Steve Ryckman <sryc...@pobox.com> writes:
>
>That is true... in this case they have an odd "lip" on them that holds
>them in place. My drawings of them yeilded a "never seen that before"
>from two differant screen manufacturers (and I went to the Illinois
>Drafting Finals in high school so you know my drawings were fairly
>accurate and to scale). :-)
Are you talking about what's called a "lip frame"--a standard screen
frame which has a 1/2" flange all the way around the frame?
If you haven't talked to Imperial Screen Company, you might want to
give King Willson a call at (310) 769-0371. King invented the alarm
screen back in 1957, and consequently he's been doing alarm screens
longer than anyone else on the planet. If your screens are truly weird,
send a couple Polaroids as well as your drawings. A picture is worth
a thousand...drawings?
Robert L Bass
WRONG!
Alarm screens have been around since the turn of the century, friend.
They used to be made from basswood (nothing to do with my family name).
A drawn copper wire was fitted into a tiny groove in the basswood
screen. The wood and the wire would snap if a thief tried to bend or
force it.
Fabric screens are made by hundreds of companies -- some good and some
not so good -- all over the country. No one has a corner on quality.
I have been using screens made by Safe-Vue Security of Rhode Island for
years. They are reliable and honest. Their number is 800-346-7732.
Safe-Vue covers all of New England. They don't charge for pick-up and
delivery. Prices are as good as or better than every other screen dealer
I've talked to and service is the best I know of.
RLBass
========
--
=======================================
Robert L. Bass
Northeastern Security Systems
dba Bass Home Electronics
80 Bentwood Rd
W Hartford, CT 06107
860 561-2020 voice
860 521-2143 fax
web site: http://www.BassHome.com
alar...@BassHome.com
========================================
aa-2@deltanet.com@deltanet.com
In <32DB5E...@home.com>, Robert L Bass <alar...@home.com> writes:
>WRONG!
>
>Alarm screens have been around since the turn of the century, friend.
>They used to be made from basswood (nothing to do with my family name).
>A drawn copper wire was fitted into a tiny groove in the basswood
>screen. The wood and the wire would snap if a thief tried to bend or
>force it.
>> If you haven't talked to Imperial Screen Company, you might want to
>> give King Willson a call at (310) 769-0371. King invented the alarm
>> screen back in 1957, and consequently he's been doing alarm screens
>> longer than anyone else on the planet.
All right, I'll be more specific.
Wood dowel screens have indeed been around for a very long time. I've
installed them. However, I don't think I'd want them on the windows of
my home.
King Willson invented the residential alarm screen back in 1957. He
obtained a U.S. patent on it. If you really care, I can get the number
for you. Patents, in those days, were only good for 17 years, so
ever since about 1974, anyone has been able to manufacture residential
alarm screens.