USE OF STANDARD MODEMS TO SEND ALARMS
homerj
Is it possible to use a standard Hayes compatible modem
(300/1200/2400/56K) to send SIA Modem (Bell or CCITT) format alarm
messages to an alarm receiver ?
Application in mind is remote automation systems that need to dial out
alarms to a central monitoring station.
No problems with any character sequences that the protocol may
require. The automation system can send or receive any ASCII character
sequence(s).
Just concerned that there may be some non-standard modem frequencies
or timings involved with alarm receivers that would throw a standard
PC type modem off the case.
m..leuck
"homerj" <andot...@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message
news:1b75d280.02042...@posting.google.com...
homerj
SIA level I and II formats: 110 and 300 baud or Radionics Modem II
format.
Or perhaps the latest SIA DC-03 (R2000.11) format which I see is now
up for ANSI standards approval.
"m..leuck" <m.l....@attbi.com> wrote in message news:<ioly8.10660$ao1.8105@rwcrnsc54>...
m..leuck
now and I have a major use for it if such a way exists, I did know of
software that used software and a standard modem to decode contact id but
thats something different than from what you are trying to do
One way you might consider is recording the format into WAV format and
sending it, I've seen that done however you'd have to make sure you get the
timing correct between your "panel" and the receiver
homerj
modem, set to 300 Baud (either Bell or CCITT), would correctly perform
the initial handshake and get on-line with an alarm receiver. Once the
modem is connected and on-line the game is won. All that is needed
from this point on is to send and receive ASCII characters in
accordance with the SIA protocol.
Seems odd that alarm receiver documentation that I've seen
specifically refers to 300 Baud Bell and CCITT tones, and yet they
would not connect with exactly these types of "standard" modems ?
"m..leuck" <m.l....@attbi.com> wrote in message news:<qRHy8.80935$HH5....@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>...
Ian T
> I guess the central issue here is whether a standard Hayes compatible
> modem, set to 300 Baud (either Bell or CCITT), would correctly perform
> the initial handshake and get on-line with an alarm receiver. Once the
> modem is connected and on-line the game is won. All that is needed
> from this point on is to send and receive ASCII characters in
> accordance with the SIA protocol.
>
> Seems odd that alarm receiver documentation that I've seen
> specifically refers to 300 Baud Bell and CCITT tones, and yet they
> would not connect with exactly these types of "standard" modems ?
They will.
The main problem is that the majority of those posting on this NG have no
first hand knowledge of the SIA format.
Most are familiar with the good old '4+2' or Ademco Contact ID formats - the
latter being the 'standard' for many years (and it works well). Both require
something to dial - a modem - and after that need something that can generate,
and receive, 1400Hz and 2300Hz single tones - Not a modem - both frequencies
used by 4+2 and CID. DTMF codes are also used by CID and a modem can be used
here as well. But the modem is not used throughout the connection because of
the single tone handshaking..
The other problem would be in finding a central monitoring station correctly
set up to handle the SIA format (or some of the ones more recent).
>
>>It may be possible but again I doubt it or someone would have invented it by
>>now and I have a major use for it if such a way exists, I did know of
>>software that used software and a standard modem to decode contact id but
>>thats something different than from what you are trying to do
See what I mean -- obviously has no idea of the SIA format (which incidentally
is often used at 1200 baud and higher these days).
>>
>>One way you might consider is recording the format into WAV format and
>>sending it, I've seen that done however you'd have to make sure you get the
>>timing correct between your "panel" and the receiver
Duh !!
73 de Ian.
R&D Manager, Arrowhead Alarm Products Ltd,
Auckland, NZ.
a Division of Crow Electronics Ltd, Israel.
homerj
for this. I've always suspected that it could be done.
In terms of alarm receivers being correctly setup to accept SIA
format, I agree. Typical central station receivers such as the Ademco,
Surguard, and Fratech FE-100 all state that they can handle various
SIA formats and I suspect that these are the types of receivers being
used by local monitoring companies. Hopefully they can read the
manuals well enough ( i.e. tick the right boxes ) to configure SIA.
The Fratech site in Oz (www.fratech.com.au) also goes into some detail
on the implementation of SIA on their receiver.
Anyway, I've got some contact names in the local monitoring companies
(such as Chubb) so I'll see if I can set up a trial with my trusty
Hayes modem.
One other thing. Is there an easier way to get info on the parts of
the SIA protocol that I will require besides paying US$100 to get the
full standard from the SIA site ?
Many Thanks
John Kelly
Engineering Manager
Andotek Systems Limited
Auckland, NZ
Ian T <ia...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message news:<3CCBDCF7...@ihug.co.nz>...
m..leuck
> > specifically refers to 300 Baud Bell and CCITT tones, and yet they
> > would not connect with exactly these types of "standard" modems ?
>
>
> They will.
Here we go again, come on Ian T, tell us how its down with which modem?
> The main problem is that the majority of those posting on this NG have no
> first hand knowledge of the SIA format.
I do agree with that one
> Most are familiar with the good old '4+2' or Ademco Contact ID formats -
the
> latter being the 'standard' for many years (and it works well).
I doubt most here know much about Contact ID either, at least in how it
works
> Both require
> something to dial - a modem - and after that need something that can
generate,
> and receive, 1400Hz and 2300Hz single tones - Not a modem - both
frequencies
> used by 4+2 and CID. DTMF codes are also used by CID and a modem can be
used
> here as well. But the modem is not used throughout the connection because
of
> the single tone handshaking..
>
> The other problem would be in finding a central monitoring station
correctly
> set up to handle the SIA format (or some of the ones more recent).
Its hard to find one that DOESN'T handle SIA anymore
> >>It may be possible but again I doubt it or someone would have invented
it by
> >>now and I have a major use for it if such a way exists, I did know of
> >>software that used software and a standard modem to decode contact id
but
> >>thats something different than from what you are trying to do
>
>
> See what I mean -- obviously has no idea of the SIA format (which
incidentally
> is often used at 1200 baud and higher these days).
I mentioned Contact Id in that statement not SIA, how does that mean I have
no idea?
> >>One way you might consider is recording the format into WAV format and
> >>sending it, I've seen that done however you'd have to make sure you get
the
> >>timing correct between your "panel" and the receiver
>
>
> Duh !!
Before you "Duh" keep in mind I doubt he knew what I was talking about
> 73 de Ian.
> R&D Manager, Arrowhead Alarm Products Ltd,
> Auckland, NZ.
> a Division of Crow Electronics Ltd, Israel.
Crow demonstrated a camera inside a motion with a memory card at the Vegas
show, damn nice product
m..leuck
> for this. I've always suspected that it could be done.
Unfortunatly Ian is great at saying it can be done however he falls short in
actually doing it enough to be able to tell someone else how
> In terms of alarm receivers being correctly setup to accept SIA
> format, I agree. Typical central station receivers such as the Ademco,
> Surguard, and Fratech FE-100 all state that they can handle various
> SIA formats and I suspect that these are the types of receivers being
> used by local monitoring companies. Hopefully they can read the
> manuals well enough ( i.e. tick the right boxes ) to configure SIA.
The manual shows what the signals are and sometimes even how the string is
interpreted however they will not tell you exactly how to do it
> The Fratech site in Oz (www.fratech.com.au) also goes into some detail
> on the implementation of SIA on their receiver.
>
> Anyway, I've got some contact names in the local monitoring companies
> (such as Chubb) so I'll see if I can set up a trial with my trusty
> Hayes modem.
If you can do it great, again however I doubt it can be done this way,
depending on what you are doing the WAV setup will likely be far easier to
do, record a panel sending SIA then remove what the receiver side is sending
and it should work although you are limited to sending what you've recorded
at the panel
> One other thing. Is there an easier way to get info on the parts of
> the SIA protocol that I will require besides paying US$100 to get the
> full standard from the SIA site ?
I've got the SIA protocol from the site however it says nothing about how it
exactly sends other than what the output at the receiver will be
Robert L Bass
>
>> The main problem is that the majority of those posting on
>> this NG have no first hand knowledge of the SIA format.
>
> I do agree with that one
Yes.
>> Most are familiar with the good old '4+2' or Ademco
>> Contact ID formats - the latter being the 'standard' for
>> many years (and it works well).
>
> I doubt most here know much about Contact ID either, at
> least in how it works
Some of us do and some obviously don't.
>> Both require something to dial - a modem - and after that
>> need something that can generate, and receive, 1400Hz and
>> 2300Hz single tones - Not a modem - both frequencies
>> used by 4+2 and CID. DTMF codes are also used by CID
>> and a modem can be used here as well. But the modem is
>> not used throughout the connection because of the single tone
>> handshaking..
>>
>> The other problem would be in finding a central monitoring
>> station correctly set up to handle the SIA format (or some of
>> the ones more recent).
I disagree on this score. The CMS doesn't need to understand *how* SIA
works. All thery need is a receiver that can process SIA. If the receiver
can handle it, the rest is trivial as far as the station is concerned. The
developer still has to deal with the other issues, but they're not
insurmountable.
> Its hard to find one that DOESN'T handle SIA anymore
>
>> See what I mean -- obviously has no idea of the SIA format (which
>> incidentally is often used at 1200 baud and higher these days).
>
> I mentioned Contact Id in that statement not SIA, how does that
> mean I have no idea?
Can we all say, "one upmanship?" :^)
--
Regards,
Robert L Bass
=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
The Online DIY Alarm Store
http://www.Bass-Home.com
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota, FL 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
941-925-9747 Fax
rober...@comcast.net
=============================>
Nomen Nescio
Obviously, if it's an industry standard, any manufacturer that wants to
build SIA into a new product has to be able to refer to some standard
reference work. If it were a matter of each manufacturer
reverse-engineering competitive products, it wouldn't be much of an
industry standard, would it?
- badenov
Ian T
> "homerj" <andot...@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:1b75d280.02042...@posting.google.com...
>
>>At last ! And bless his heart he's from the same country. Ian, thanks
>>for this. I've always suspected that it could be done.
I believe our two companies were once part of the same organisation 12 or so
years ago...
Mark,
Once again you demonstrate your ignorance of what the discussion is about.
In the past I have maintained, and still do, that ANY modem can be made to
work at 300baud, bell103 or CCITT V21 IF one has the information for that
particular modem or the time to sit down and try the various settings often
not in the manuals..
Unfortunately, there is no standard to do this - even within a particular
model of modem. The AT+ms command often works but you have stated many times
that you do not have the time to shag about experimenting to try and make
the modems work.
That's your choice. Others, some who post on this NG, HAVE taken the time to
try various settings and have had 100% success. They will not post those
results here primarily because of this bloody minded attitude of yours, and a
few others. I have received emails from many NG members who have let me know
of their success..
However, That is not what this discussion is about.
This discussion was about the use of a modem to communicate with a CMS using
the SIA format (and others). A pure modem to modem form of comms.
>>
>
> Unfortunatly Ian is great at saying it can be done however he falls short in
> actually doing it enough to be able to tell someone else how
We have many satisfied people here.. The bit that makes it difficult is that
we usually have to have THEIR modem physically in our hands...
Send me a modem or two and I'll send you back the appropriate init strings.
Until then, Fuck OFF!
>
>
>>In terms of alarm receivers being correctly setup to accept SIA
>>format, I agree. Typical central station receivers such as the Ademco,
>>Surguard, and Fratech FE-100 all state that they can handle various
>>SIA formats and I suspect that these are the types of receivers being
>>used by local monitoring companies. Hopefully they can read the
>>manuals well enough ( i.e. tick the right boxes ) to configure SIA.
>>
>
> The manual shows what the signals are and sometimes even how the string is
> interpreted however they will not tell you exactly how to do it
Ah, but they do. To those who understand data communications the whole thing
is dead easy.
>
>
>>The Fratech site in Oz (www.fratech.com.au) also goes into some detail
>>on the implementation of SIA on their receiver.
>>
>>Anyway, I've got some contact names in the local monitoring companies
>>(such as Chubb) so I'll see if I can set up a trial with my trusty
>>Hayes modem.
>>
>
> If you can do it great, again however I doubt it can be done this way,
> depending on what you are doing the WAV setup will likely be far easier to
> do, record a panel sending SIA then remove what the receiver side is sending
> and it should work although you are limited to sending what you've recorded
> at the panel
Demonstrates once again the lack of knowledge about the SIA 'high speed'
formats...
>
>
>>One other thing. Is there an easier way to get info on the parts of
>>the SIA protocol that I will require besides paying US$100 to get the
>>full standard from the SIA site ?
>>
>
> I've got the SIA protocol from the site however it says nothing about how it
> exactly sends other than what the output at the receiver will be
In that case you have the wrong document. We are referring to SIA DC-03. My
copy is the 1999 revision but I know there's a more recent one available.
It defines EXACTLY all the messages. Unfortunately it also goes to great
length to regurgitate the specs for a 300 baud bell103 modem - all the
frequencies, handshaking etc that are 'standard' for that protocol.
Remove all that chaff and the info required is right there..
... IF you know anything about data communications.
73 de Ian.
Ian T
> "Ian T" <ia...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:3CCBDCF7...@ihug.co.nz...
>
>>homerj wrote:
>>
> >
>
>>>Seems odd that alarm receiver documentation that I've seen
>>>specifically refers to 300 Baud Bell and CCITT tones, and yet they
>>>would not connect with exactly these types of "standard" modems ?
>>>
>>
>>They will.
>>
>
> Here we go again, come on Ian T, tell us how its down with which modem?
Easy. Get modem. Make correct init string for THAT modem (and you're on your
own there as there's no standard). Hook modem to phone line..
>
>
>>The main problem is that the majority of those posting on this NG have no
>>first hand knowledge of the SIA format.
>>
>
> I do agree with that one
Which is why you have no idea what we are ACTUALLY talking about. The SIA
protocol is a modem - to - modem protocol. The initial spec works at 300 baud
but it can actually be used at any speed - yup, right up to 56k as long as
both ends have the appropriate modems.
>
>
>> Most are familiar with the good old '4+2' or Ademco Contact ID formats -
>>
> the
>
>>latter being the 'standard' for many years (and it works well).
>>
>
> I doubt most here know much about Contact ID either, at least in how it
> works
Which aptly demonstrates the technical level of most here...
Down here, 4+2 has been obsolete for years. In fact you would have to look
real hard to find ANY 4+2 CMS's in Australasia. There's NONE in NZ.
>
>
>>Both require
>>something to dial - a modem - and after that need something that can
>>
> generate,
>
>>and receive, 1400Hz and 2300Hz single tones - Not a modem - both
>>
> frequencies
>
>>used by 4+2 and CID. DTMF codes are also used by CID and a modem can be
>>
> used
>
>>here as well. But the modem is not used throughout the connection because
>>
> of
>
>>the single tone handshaking..
>>
>>The other problem would be in finding a central monitoring station
>>
> correctly
>
>>set up to handle the SIA format (or some of the ones more recent).
>>
>
> Its hard to find one that DOESN'T handle SIA anymore
We're talking SIA 'high speed'...
>
>
>>>>It may be possible but again I doubt it or someone would have invented
>>>>
> it by
>
>>>>now and I have a major use for it if such a way exists, I did know of
>>>>software that used software and a standard modem to decode contact id
>>>>
> but
>
>>>>thats something different than from what you are trying to do
>>>>
>>
>>See what I mean -- obviously has no idea of the SIA format (which
>>
> incidentally
>
>>is often used at 1200 baud and higher these days).
>>
>
> I mentioned Contact Id in that statement not SIA, how does that mean I have
> no idea?
>
>
>>>>One way you might consider is recording the format into WAV format and
>>>>sending it, I've seen that done however you'd have to make sure you get
>>>>
> the
>
>>>>timing correct between your "panel" and the receiver
>>>>
>>
>>Duh !!
>>
>
> Before you "Duh" keep in mind I doubt he knew what I was talking about
Knowing the company he works for I think he knew EXACTLY what you were talking
about..
>
>
>>73 de Ian.
>>R&D Manager, Arrowhead Alarm Products Ltd,
>>Auckland, NZ.
>>a Division of Crow Electronics Ltd, Israel.
>>
>
> Crow demonstrated a camera inside a motion with a memory card at the Vegas
> show, damn nice product
The outside version has been very successful at schools and car yards...
Wait until you see the new panels..
73 de Ian.
Ian T
> m..leuck wrote:
>
>>>The main problem is that the majority of those posting on
>>>this NG have no first hand knowledge of the SIA format.
>>>
>>I do agree with that one
>>
>
> Yes.
Good..
>
>
>>> Most are familiar with the good old '4+2' or Ademco
>>>Contact ID formats - the latter being the 'standard' for
>>>many years (and it works well).
>>>
>>I doubt most here know much about Contact ID either, at
>>least in how it works
>>
>
> Some of us do and some obviously don't.
This has been very obvious..
>
>
>>>Both require something to dial - a modem - and after that
>>>need something that can generate, and receive, 1400Hz and
>>>2300Hz single tones - Not a modem - both frequencies
>>>used by 4+2 and CID. DTMF codes are also used by CID
>>>and a modem can be used here as well. But the modem is
>>>not used throughout the connection because of the single tone
>>>handshaking..
>>>
>>>The other problem would be in finding a central monitoring
>>>station correctly set up to handle the SIA format (or some of
>>>the ones more recent).
>>>
>
> I disagree on this score. The CMS doesn't need to understand *how* SIA
> works. All thery need is a receiver that can process SIA. If the receiver
> can handle it, the rest is trivial as far as the station is concerned. The
> developer still has to deal with the other issues, but they're not
> insurmountable.
And this is the level we are discussing.. I am a developer.. John (homerj)
is a developer...
But the CMS hardware has to be SIA compatible - as you say "..need is a
receiver that can process SIA". And that's the hassle - there aren't that
many of those around, at least down here. 99.9% of monitoring down this way
uses Contact ID. It works. It's quick. Why change... ?
John is exploring the newer protocols. I have already been there, done that...
>
>
>>Its hard to find one that DOESN'T handle SIA anymore
>>
>>
>>>See what I mean -- obviously has no idea of the SIA format (which
>>>incidentally is often used at 1200 baud and higher these days).
>>>
>>I mentioned Contact Id in that statement not SIA, how does that
>>mean I have no idea?
>>
>
> Can we all say, "one upmanship?" :^)
Nope. Just discussion on a different plain.
We are talking the use of a different, some might say better, protocol for
reporting. This requires DEVELOPMENT at the panel (security, access, fire...
whatever) and DEVELOPMENT at the CMS.
Unfortunately, most on this NG are not involved with development. Most are
involved with installation, and no doubt do an excellent job. I have gained a
lot of useful information from your posts, and those from a few others. Where
applicable, I have used that information in the development of panels and RF
devices to, hopefully, make life a tad easier for the installer.. And also
the end user.
But it has become obvious, very quickly, that this particular thread is not at
the installer level.
73 de Ian.
Ian T
> At last ! And bless his heart he's from the same country. Ian, thanks
> for this. I've always suspected that it could be done.
John,
Not only are we from the same country, and city, but about 12 or so years ago
Andotek and Arrowhead were both part of the same company - Staefa.
Not sure if you were around at that time... (I wasn't, at least not with
Arrowhead..)
>
> One other thing. Is there an easier way to get info on the parts of
> the SIA protocol that I will require besides paying US$100 to get the
> full standard from the SIA site ?
That's what I did...
I have to be tad careful as Andotek are our competitors in one particular
area, although I believe you do use our panels for building management or
similar.. :)
It's all good fun...
73 de Ian.
Nomen Nescio
>copy is the 1999 revision but I know there's a more recent one available.
>It defines EXACTLY all the messages. Unfortunately it also goes to great
>length to regurgitate the specs for a 300 baud bell103 modem - all the
>frequencies, handshaking etc that are 'standard' for that protocol.
Well then, I'm confused. If you have all of the technical specifications
to transmit SIA messages using a modem of your choice, then you would
appear to have all of the info you need to do what you want to do.
What are you lacking? A genuine SIA-compatible receiver to conduct tests
with?
Robert L Bass
>
>> I disagree on this score. The CMS doesn't need to understand *how* SIA
>> works. All thery need is a receiver that can process SIA. If the
receiver
>> can handle it, the rest is trivial as far as the station is concerned.
The
>> developer still has to deal with the other issues, but they're not
>> insurmountable.
>
> And this is the level we are discussing.. I am a developer.. John
(homerj)
> is a developer...
Although I only do a little programming these days, I am a partner in a
contract software developer. I understand a good deal more about comms and
software than many here, but that's nothing special. It's not their job.
> But the CMS hardware has to be SIA compatible - as you say "..need is a
> receiver that can process SIA". And that's the hassle - there aren't that
> many of those around, at least down here. 99.9% of monitoring down this
way
> uses Contact ID. It works. It's quick. Why change... ?
Perhaps that's what is so different in my world from yours. There are
plenty of SIA compatible receivers around here. Everyone wants to brag that
his CMS can handle all the latest formats so there's a marketing impetus to
stay on the leading edge. Most of the time that's a good thing.
> John is exploring the newer protocols. I have already been there, done
that...
If you've got a current production modem and an init string to configure it
to talk to a SIA receiver, why not lay your cards on the table. That's the
only way you'll get Mark to believe you.
>>> I mentioned Contact Id in that statement not SIA, how does that
>>> mean I have no idea?
>>
>> Can we all say, "one upmanship?" :^)
>
> Nope. Just discussion on a different plain.
Come on, now. We're all discussing the same issue. BTW, you used the wrong
homonym above. I believe you meant to say "a different plane."
> We are talking the use of a different, some might say better,
> protocol for reporting. This requires DEVELOPMENT at
> the panel (security, access, fire... whatever) and
> DEVELOPMENT at the CMS.
If you're building a new panel or receiver, I agree. But here in the US you
can just hop over to ADI and order a SIA compatible panel and receiver.
> Unfortunately, most on this NG are not involved with development.
That's not surprising. It's a security alarms forum. Most of thefolks here
are either alarm installers, alarm users or alarm manufacturer techs. Among
the latter I only know of three or four. You and I are about the only ones
who have posted anything indicating an involvement in development. But that
doesn't put us on a different plane -- we just have different jobs. Of
course there are a few here on a different plane from the rest of the world,
but that's another matter entirely. :^)
> Most are involved with installation, and no doubt do an excellent job.
Some seem to do a terrible job. :(
> I have gained a lot of useful information from your posts, and those from
a
> few others.
[blush] Glad to be of service.
> Where applicable, I have used that information in the development of
> panels and RF devices to, hopefully, make life a tad easier for the
> installer.. And also the end user.
Sounds good to me.
> But it has become obvious, very quickly, that this particular thread is
> not at the installer level.
True, but there are among us several installers and other alarm company
types who have an extensive knowledge -- way beyond that of the (what is it
Paul calls them?) low level electricians. You may disagree with Mark. You
may even be right and he wrong (perish the thought). But don't
underestimate him. He's a lot smarter than many of the others here.
m..leuck
> m..leuck wrote:
>
> > "homerj" <andot...@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message
> > news:1b75d280.02042...@posting.google.com...
> >
> >>At last ! And bless his heart he's from the same country. Ian, thanks
> >>for this. I've always suspected that it could be done.
>
>
> I believe our two companies were once part of the same organisation 12 or
so
> years ago...
>
>
> Mark,
> Once again you demonstrate your ignorance of what the discussion is about.
>
> In the past I have maintained, and still do, that ANY modem can be made to
> work at 300baud, bell103 or CCITT V21 IF one has the information for
that
> particular modem or the time to sit down and try the various settings
often
> not in the manuals..
Telling someone it can be done then leaving them hanging by telling them to
go play with various settings of a modem does them no good at all, I would
have far more respect for you on this if you could post at least 1 example
of how you made ANY modem work with ohh say an FBI panel, or Ademco, now
apparently ANY modem can send SIA and Contact ID signals....
Again, you have yet to provide any information to do so, unless you've
tested EVERY modem I seriously doubt ANY modem can do it, you are starting
to sound like our "friend" from Belgium.
> Unfortunately, there is no standard to do this - even within a particular
> model of modem. The AT+ms command often works but you have stated many
times
> that you do not have the time to shag about experimenting to try and
make
> the modems work.
Yes and I doubt the original poster has time either
> That's your choice. Others, some who post on this NG, HAVE taken the time
to
> try various settings and have had 100% success. They will not post those
> results here primarily because of this bloody minded attitude of yours
I'm open for any suggestions on how I can get a more common modem to work
with a given panel and I'm sure others are as well, and now we are to
believe others are hiding info in fear of ME? please...
> and a
> few others. I have received emails from many NG members who have let me
know
> of their success..
Good, I guess its all of your groups little secret then
> However, That is not what this discussion is about.
>
> This discussion was about the use of a modem to communicate with a CMS
using
> the SIA format (and others). A pure modem to modem form of comms.
Ahh you remembered
> > Unfortunatly Ian is great at saying it can be done however he falls
short in
> > actually doing it enough to be able to tell someone else how
>
>
> We have many satisfied people here.. The bit that makes it difficult is
that
> we usually have to have THEIR modem physically in our hands...
Not really, I'm sure some modems are common between our countries, pick one
like ummmmm a 3-Com 56k, or how about a Supra? I suspect you may have a few
laying around just waiting to send SIA and Contact ID
> Send me a modem or two and I'll send you back the appropriate init
strings.
> Until then, Fuck OFF!
Somehow I knew you'd sink to that :)
Tell you what, since you've already done this you can tell me what modems
you did get working and what init strings you used right?
> >>In terms of alarm receivers being correctly setup to accept SIA
> >>format, I agree. Typical central station receivers such as the Ademco,
> >>Surguard, and Fratech FE-100 all state that they can handle various
> >>SIA formats and I suspect that these are the types of receivers being
> >>used by local monitoring companies. Hopefully they can read the
> >>manuals well enough ( i.e. tick the right boxes ) to configure SIA.
> >>
> >
> > The manual shows what the signals are and sometimes even how the string
is
> > interpreted however they will not tell you exactly how to do it
>
>
> Ah, but they do. To those who understand data communications the whole
thing
> is dead easy.
Uh huh
> > If you can do it great, again however I doubt it can be done this way,
> > depending on what you are doing the WAV setup will likely be far easier
to
> > do, record a panel sending SIA then remove what the receiver side is
sending
> > and it should work although you are limited to sending what you've
recorded
> > at the panel
>
>
> Demonstrates once again the lack of knowledge about the SIA 'high speed'
> formats...
Not really, unlike your non-existant modem tricks I've done the WAV stuff
> In that case you have the wrong document. We are referring to SIA DC-03.
My
> copy is the 1999 revision but I know there's a more recent one available.
> It defines EXACTLY all the messages. Unfortunately it also goes to great
> length to regurgitate the specs for a 300 baud bell103 modem - all the
> frequencies, handshaking etc that are 'standard' for that protocol.
> Remove all that chaff and the info required is right there..
> ... IF you know anything about data communications.
This you are correct and I am wrong, page 7 on the 2000 documentation
section 4.2.1, the question is still can any modem send the tones and
unless you are prepared to send homerj tons of emails on how to do it with
his modem it will not happen
Contrary to your opinion of me I am not closed minded, I can think of a few
things I'd like to do with this however so far you've been very open about
how it can easily be done (hey does that sound familiar?) but provided no
examples...none...zilch...nada
Group Moderator
> Once again you demonstrate your ignorance of what the discussion is about.
OUCH !!!!
Mike, Sr.
Alarm Services Inc.(NJ)
Group Moderator
http://www.AlarmServicesInc.Com
APPROVED VENDOR - Attention DIY's & Newbies
http://www.NorcoAlarm.Com/
Be Sure To Visit The Goofy/Bass/Paul Website
http://www.goofysplace.com/
m..leuck
> m..leuck wrote:
>
> > "Ian T" <ia...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
> > news:3CCBDCF7...@ihug.co.nz...
> >
> >>homerj wrote:
> >>
> > >
> >
> >>>Seems odd that alarm receiver documentation that I've seen
> >>>specifically refers to 300 Baud Bell and CCITT tones, and yet they
> >>>would not connect with exactly these types of "standard" modems ?
> >>>
> >>
> >>They will.
> >>
> >
> > Here we go again, come on Ian T, tell us how its down with which modem?
>
>
> Easy. Get modem. Make correct init string for THAT modem (and you're on
your
> own there as there's no standard). Hook modem to phone line..
Thank you, you proved my point, you've provided no help to homerj, again I
say "if" you wish to say that ANY modem can do it you'd better be sure to be
able to provide specific examples of HOW it is done instead of your answer
here
As a comparison someone recently posted in this NG about an unknown trouble
with a DSC Power832, now am I providing any help by saying "Okay thats easy,
you just gotta play with the panel for a while"? No, instead if I wanted to
actually help the guy I'd draw on my own experience and explain exactly what
I think the problem is, this way the guy (who's skills are unknown to us)
doesn't spend hours of frustrating work that might end up going nowhere or
worse causing more damage than he has now, if I didn't know what I thought
the problem is I'd say nothing
> Which is why you have no idea what we are ACTUALLY talking about. The SIA
> protocol is a modem - to - modem protocol. The initial spec works at 300
baud
> but it can actually be used at any speed - yup, right up to 56k as long as
> both ends have the appropriate modems.
I know this already but he's going to a receiver, whats an "appropriate"
modem to do that?
> > I doubt most here know much about Contact ID either, at least in how it
> > works
>
>
> Which aptly demonstrates the technical level of most here...
>
> Down here, 4+2 has been obsolete for years. In fact you would have to
look
> real hard to find ANY 4+2 CMS's in Australasia. There's NONE in NZ.
Its obsolete everywhere, problem is it just hasn't died out yet
> > Before you "Duh" keep in mind I doubt he knew what I was talking about
>
>
> Knowing the company he works for I think he knew EXACTLY what you were
talking
> about..
Possible but then again he IS asking here isn't he? Because we don't know
his background we tend to assume he doesn't know much about the subject
because most that ask general questions like this usually don't
m..leuck
"Group Moderator" <alarm...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020429065655...@mb-mb.aol.com...
> Mark,
> > Once again you demonstrate your ignorance of what the discussion is
about.
>
> OUCH !!!!
> Mike, Sr.
> Alarm Services Inc.(NJ)
> Group Moderator
> http://www.AlarmServicesInc.Com
Bring back painful memories of most of your conversations Mike?
Graeme McKenzie
One day I will sit down and work out what the different strings I need for
the various panels to download from one modem. It's not so bad at my desk,
where the computer is connected to two modems, and the programs are set up
on the correct ports to connect, and I imagine you probably have a rack of
modems at your disposal, but when I use my laptop at home or wherever, I
have to drag out my external Bit Blitzer modem to connect with half my
panels, as the 56k internal will only connect to some panels (Tecom,
Concept, Elite, Caddx). It will not do Napco, DSC, EDM, etc. It will be
good when I have it all sussed.
If you do half the downloading I do (and I am sure you probably do 100 times
the amount I do), you would benefit from using less modems as well. At
least we should try to get them working. Ian says it can be done - I have
no reason to doubt him - I have used the panels he produces and know that he
can produce the goods.
Now all I need to do is learn more about running modems at low speeds -
almost all the information on the net about modems is to get them running
faster....
Graeme McKenzie
"m..leuck" <m.l....@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:LB1z8.26718$vX.3815@rwcrnsc53...
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.343 / Virus Database: 190 - Release Date: 3/22/02
m..leuck
"Graeme McKenzie" <mckenz...@clear.net.nz> wrote in message
news:3ccd...@clear.net.nz...
> Mark,
> One day I will sit down and work out what the different strings I need for
> the various panels to download from one modem. It's not so bad at my
desk,
> where the computer is connected to two modems, and the programs are set up
> on the correct ports to connect, and I imagine you probably have a rack of
> modems at your disposal, but when I use my laptop at home or wherever, I
> have to drag out my external Bit Blitzer modem to connect with half my
> panels, as the 56k internal will only connect to some panels (Tecom,
> Concept, Elite, Caddx). It will not do Napco, DSC, EDM, etc. It will be
> good when I have it all sussed.
I currently use 3 with a switchbox, a Hayes 2400 Optima #4007AM (DSC, ITI,
Moose), a Hayes 1200 07-00038 (Ademco, FBI, Napco, AT&T) and a StarComm
(C&K, Radionics, Visonic), I also have a Practical Peripheral 1200 for no
particular reason and a DMP modem which I've used twice in 2 years
I would like to see what you've done if possible
> If you do half the downloading I do (and I am sure you probably do 100
times
> the amount I do), you would benefit from using less modems as well.
It varies, sometimes I don't download anything sometimes its 50 a day,
lately I've been killing Radionics 2112's with the StarComm, that modem has
taken anything I've fed it except DSC and AT&T
> At
> least we should try to get them working. Ian says it can be done - I have
> no reason to doubt him - I have used the panels he produces and know that
he
> can produce the goods.
It isn't a question of doubting him, my problem is when he states its easy
to do then cannot produce results because he doesn't have that modem to work
with, that doesn't help the original poster at all who likely doesn't know
anything about init strings or how they are used (blame Windows for that
part)
> Now all I need to do is learn more about running modems at low speeds -
> almost all the information on the net about modems is to get them running
> faster....
If you know anything about modem telecommunications its easy! just ask Ian
:)
Ian T
You are indeed confused..
I wrote the top paragraph. I have the information.
I was NOT the person requesting the information..
You have got out of step with 'who said what'.. A common problem with NG's :)
73 de Ian.
Ian T
> "Ian T" <ia...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:3CCCD77C...@ihug.co.nz...
>
>>m..leuck wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"homerj" <andot...@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message
>>>news:1b75d280.02042...@posting.google.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>At last ! And bless his heart he's from the same country. Ian, thanks
>>>>for this. I've always suspected that it could be done.
>>>>
>>
>>I believe our two companies were once part of the same organisation 12 or
>>
> so
>
>>years ago...
>>
>>
>>Mark,
>>Once again you demonstrate your ignorance of what the discussion is about.
>>
>>In the past I have maintained, and still do, that ANY modem can be made to
>>work at 300baud, bell103 or CCITT V21 IF one has the information for
>>
> that
>
>>particular modem or the time to sit down and try the various settings
>>
> often
>
>>not in the manuals..
>>
>
> Telling someone it can be done then leaving them hanging by telling them to
> go play with various settings of a modem does them no good at all, I would
> have far more respect for you on this if you could post at least 1 example
> of how you made ANY modem work with ohh say an FBI panel, or Ademco,
> now apparently ANY modem can send SIA and Contact ID signals....
They can ??? How?? This I would like to see.. I definitely have never said
this..
>
> Again, you have yet to provide any information to do so, unless you've
> tested EVERY modem I seriously doubt ANY modem can do it, you are starting
> to sound like our "friend" from Belgium.
To date we have had a 100% success rate. While there may well be a modem or
two out there that may not do 300 baud with the correct coercion, it hasn't
turned up in NZ. Until I get one that we can't make operate at 300 baud I'll
stick with the ANY.
>
>
>>Unfortunately, there is no standard to do this - even within a particular
>>model of modem. The AT+ms command often works but you have stated many
>>
> times
>
>> that you do not have the time to shag about experimenting to try and
>>
> make
>
>>the modems work.
>>
>
> Yes and I doubt the original poster has time either
He doesn't need to because he doesn't want to use the modem in the way you are
referring. He wants it for SIA format.
And given he is from down here I suspect he will definitely find the time to
try various settings - we tend to actually think outside the square and
attempt these things - maybe it's a Kiwi trait....
>
>
>>That's your choice. Others, some who post on this NG, HAVE taken the time
>>
> to
>
>>try various settings and have had 100% success. They will not post those
>>results here primarily because of this bloody minded attitude of yours
>>
>
> I'm open for any suggestions on how I can get a more common modem to work
> with a given panel and I'm sure others are as well, and now we are to
> believe others are hiding info in fear of ME? please...
I have made suggestions in the past - start by trying an AT+ms? or AT+ms=?
command and see what your modem responds with.. Many modern modems recognise
the +ms command (and there are several variants unfortunately of what comes
after the =) but you won't find it in their documentation.
You actually have to push keys on the keyboard and TRY things.. Something you
have always maintained you don't have the time to do..
>
>
>>and a
>>few others. I have received emails from many NG members who have let me
>>
> know
>
>>of their success..
>>
>
> Good, I guess its all of your groups little secret then
There's no secret about it. It's simply a case of getting off ones arse (ass
for the yanks) and actually trying something..
>
>
>>However, That is not what this discussion is about.
>>
>>This discussion was about the use of a modem to communicate with a CMS
>>
> using
>
>>the SIA format (and others). A pure modem to modem form of comms.
>>
>
> Ahh you remembered
>
>
>>>Unfortunatly Ian is great at saying it can be done however he falls
>>>
> short in
>
>>>actually doing it enough to be able to tell someone else how
>>>
>>
>>We have many satisfied people here.. The bit that makes it difficult is
>>
> that
>
>>we usually have to have THEIR modem physically in our hands...
>>
>
> Not really, I'm sure some modems are common between our countries, pick one
> like ummmmm a 3-Com 56k, or how about a Supra? I suspect you may have a few
> laying around just waiting to send SIA and Contact ID
I don't have ANY modems that can 'send contact ID'. I do have a few that can
happily send the SIA 'high speed' format.
And the Supra obeys the +ms command - can't remember which variant off the top
of my head but try AT+ms=? and report back what it spits out...
>
>
>>Send me a modem or two and I'll send you back the appropriate init
>>
> strings.
>
>>Until then, Fuck OFF!
>>
>
> Somehow I knew you'd sink to that :)
>
> Tell you what, since you've already done this you can tell me what modems
> you did get working and what init strings you used right?
I could but given your total disbelief and lack of nouse or enthusiasm to try
it yourself, I'm not about to. I'll help those that make an attempt to help
themselves. I will not help those who do nothing but denigrate others.
Your opening sentence of your first post in this thread set the tone for any
further discussion with you. it was "I doubt it." then your opening sentence
in your first response after I entered the thread capped it off.
Yes ANY modem can send those tones. They are defined as the Bel103 originate
and answer tones. the 2225 Hz handshake tone is also a 'standard'.
I don't have to send John tons of emails - we live in the same city. As I
mentioned a long way above, our two companies were part of the one, many years
ago.
If John wants further info he knows how to get hold of me - he, or the company
he works for, uses our panels. My number is in the local directory.
I suspect we'll talk person to person before much longer and may even get
together over a beer in the near future...
There's nothing special about those tones. That's why I said the document has
a lot of chaff defining the bell103 modem specs - an unnecessary portion of
the manual as that spec is already well defined in any decent modem book. If
it had kept to the task at hand - defining the SIA format, it would be a much
thinner manual. Someone obviously had too much time on their hands.. :)
>
> Contrary to your opinion of me I am not closed minded, I can think of a few
> things I'd like to do with this however so far you've been very open about
> how it can easily be done (hey does that sound familiar?) but provided no
> examples...none...zilch...nada
What do I have to provide examples of ???
To do SIA format all that is required is a modem - and a panel or whatever
that talks SIA - and a CMS that receives SIA. While the original
documentation specified 300 baud it can operate at higher speeds.
All the info is in the SIA document.
73 de Ian.
Ian T
Mark,
On this we are in 100% agreement :)
Who is this fuckwit that calls himself "Group Moderator" ??
Rather tricky for an unmoderated newsgroup...
73 de Ian.
Ian T
> Ian T wrote:
>
>>>I disagree on this score. The CMS doesn't need to understand *how* SIA
>>>works. All thery need is a receiver that can process SIA. If the
>>>
> receiver
>
>>>can handle it, the rest is trivial as far as the station is concerned.
>>>
> The
>
>>>developer still has to deal with the other issues, but they're not
>>>insurmountable.
>>>
>>And this is the level we are discussing.. I am a developer.. John
>>
> (homerj)
>
>>is a developer...
>>
>
> Although I only do a little programming these days, I am a partner in a
> contract software developer. I understand a good deal more about comms and
> software than many here, but that's nothing special. It's not their job.
Exactly. And if they know bugger all about it then they should stay out of
the conversation...
>
>
>>But the CMS hardware has to be SIA compatible - as you say "..need is a
>>receiver that can process SIA". And that's the hassle - there aren't that
>>many of those around, at least down here. 99.9% of monitoring down this
>>
> way
>
>>uses Contact ID. It works. It's quick. Why change... ?
>>
>
> Perhaps that's what is so different in my world from yours. There are
> plenty of SIA compatible receivers around here. Everyone wants to brag that
> his CMS can handle all the latest formats so there's a marketing impetus to
> stay on the leading edge. Most of the time that's a good thing.
Indeed.. But how many of those CMS's with SIA compatible receivers actually
receive SIA high speed format ??
How many panels down your way send the SIA high speed format ?? How many can
be connected directly to cellular phones ?? How many can interface direct to
a CDMA network ??? I could continue.....
>
>
>>John is exploring the newer protocols. I have already been there, done
>>
> that...
>
> If you've got a current production modem and an init string to configure it
> to talk to a SIA receiver, why not lay your cards on the table. That's the
> only way you'll get Mark to believe you.
The modem in this PC I am using from home is :-
Conexant Soft 56 Data, Fax, RTAD PCI modem
The init string I use for panels is:
AT+ms=BEL103,0,300,300^MATS10=255^M
The modem in my PC in my office is a Rockwell beast - can't remember its model
off the top of my head.
Its init string is
AT+ms=64,0,0,0^MATS10=255^M
We have found many variants of the +ms command. Somewhere over in the office
we have a list of some we have found but we actually find it quicker to get
our hands on the modem and try the various options. Mainly because we have
found variations with the same model of modem from the same manufacturer.
Depended in the firmware revision.
Which is why I cannot give a simple answer to Mark, or anyone else. All I can
do, and have done, is suggest they try AT+ms? or AT+ms=? and see what their
modem spits back.
Mark seems reluctant to try even this simple exercise. He doesn't want to do
his bit to help - he has stated on numerous occasions that he does not have
the time to experiment (I suspect the lack of nouse..) - so why the fuck
should I try and answer his questions ?
>
>
>
>>>>I mentioned Contact Id in that statement not SIA, how does that
>>>>mean I have no idea?
>>>>
>>>Can we all say, "one upmanship?" :^)
>>>
>>Nope. Just discussion on a different plain.
>>
>
> Come on, now. We're all discussing the same issue. BTW, you used the wrong
> homonym above. I believe you meant to say "a different plane."
I wrote it that way initially - didn't look right :)
>
>
>>We are talking the use of a different, some might say better,
>>protocol for reporting. This requires DEVELOPMENT at
>>the panel (security, access, fire... whatever) and
>>DEVELOPMENT at the CMS.
>>
>
> If you're building a new panel or receiver, I agree. But here in the US you
> can just hop over to ADI and order a SIA compatible panel and receiver.
Great. But in case you haven't actually noticed there is a much larger world
out there. The number of panels sold in the USA is a fraction of those sold
world-wide. This is typical yank arrogance - if it isn't available in the USA
it doesn't exist.
In fact, outside the USA we aren't particularly interested in things like UL,
things like a so called 'International building code' (That's purely a States
code - NOT international), things like FCC regs... the list goes on.
The original poster, Homerj, is from Auckland, NZ. NOT the USA.
>
>
>>Unfortunately, most on this NG are not involved with development.
>>
>
> That's not surprising. It's a security alarms forum.
Correct...
> Most of thefolks here are either alarm installers, alarm users
Who have no idea about SIA formats etc so should simply stay out of the
discussion unless they have something constructive to contribute...
> or alarm manufacturer techs.
Who may well have some knowledge of the subject..
> Among
> the latter I only know of three or four. You and I are about the only ones
> who have posted anything indicating an involvement in development. But that
> doesn't put us on a different plane -- we just have different jobs. Of
> course there are a few here on a different plane from the rest of the world,
> but that's another matter entirely. :^)
Indeed... And I worry about a few of them :)
>
>
>>Most are involved with installation, and no doubt do an excellent job.
>>
>
> Some seem to do a terrible job. :(
I was being kind... :)
>
>
>>I have gained a lot of useful information from your posts, and those from
>>
> a
>
>>few others.
>>
>
> [blush] Glad to be of service.
>
>
>>Where applicable, I have used that information in the development of
>>panels and RF devices to, hopefully, make life a tad easier for the
>>installer.. And also the end user.
>>
>
> Sounds good to me.
>
>
>>But it has become obvious, very quickly, that this particular thread is
>>not at the installer level.
>>
>
> True, but there are among us several installers and other alarm company
> types who have an extensive knowledge -- way beyond that of the (what is it
> Paul calls them?) low level electricians. You may disagree with Mark. You
> may even be right and he wrong (perish the thought). But don't
> underestimate him. He's a lot smarter than many of the others here.
I have read many of Marks postings over the last few years. Most I have found
to be very informative. However, on this one subject of modems and init
strings he has taken the attitude that it can't be done based solely on the
fact, and by his own admission, that he can't be bothered trying various
commands to see the effect. That is his prerogative BUT that does not give
him the right to turn around and say I don't know what I'm talking about just
because I haven't posted numerous init strings to prove the point.
73 de Ian.
Ian T
>>
>
> It isn't a question of doubting him, my problem is when he states its easy
> to do then cannot produce results because he doesn't have that modem to work
> with,
Exactly. And how I wish it were otherwise.
We get numerous requests each week and the stock answer is either try the
various options (see other posts) and we'll go from there OR send us your
modem and we'll get it sussed for you.
We spend many hours, usually at no charge I might add, doing this.
I see Graeme hasn't managed to talk to DSC or EDM panels. We have - I have
one of each in my office for 'comparison' purposes..
> that doesn't help the original poster at all who likely doesn't know
> anything about init strings or how they are used (blame Windows for that
> part)
Have a look at his postings... He has identified himself. He has identified
the company he works for, and his position within that company.
I know the company concerned - I may have even met John personally.. I know
what they produce and/or sell. I have a fair idea that he knows about init
strings and how they are used...
I have to be little careful because that company is our potential opposition
in some products.
>
>
>>Now all I need to do is learn more about running modems at low speeds -
>>almost all the information on the net about modems is to get them running
>>faster....
>>
>
> If you know anything about modem telecommunications its easy! just ask Ian
> :)
Always happy to help a) if able and b) if there has been some attempt at
helping oneself... I've been in the telecomm business since the early 1970's
when 300baud was 'standard' and 1200 was 'fast'... I installed many of the
original banking networks around NZ. I could almost recognise the type of
transaction by the modem tones.
73 de Ian.
Mike Simpson
"Nomen Nescio" <nob...@dizum.com> wrote in message
news:bb0029baa5934e1f...@dizum.com...
http://www.siaonline.org/page.asp?c=storeproduct_58
Robert L Bass
an unmoderated news group. Calling himself "Group Moderator" is roughly the
Usenet equivalent of going around wearing a policeman's badge. The only
difference is in real life you get arrested whereas here we just laugh at
him.
His name is Michael Sabodish, Sr. He posts from Matawan, NJ via AOL using a
number of false names as well as his own. He bought a bunch of accounts
some years ago from a guy who was unable to continue his business due to a
break down. According to the people at the central station where he farms
out his monitoring, he has not installed any new accounts in years. That's
not surprising, given the aberrant behavior he displays here.
He also has convinced himself that Mark Leuck and I are his worst enemies
(actually, he fulfills that role rather well himself). He's been harassing
and flaming folks here for several years. Every once in a while he seems to
calm down for a while, presumably when he gets back on his meds. After a
few days or weeks he returns spouting more of the same drivel.
Oh, by the way, he also claims to have over 30 years in the trade. But he
has admitted that he counts his years spent as a telephone clerk working for
ADT (not installing or servicing anything) as *double* years of experience.
It's an interesting form of mathematics which would do the Al Gore vs.
George Bush debates proud.
J. Stevens
>Others, some who post on this NG, HAVE taken the time to
> try various settings and have had 100% success. They will not post those
> results here primarily because of this bloody minded attitude of yours,
and a
> few others. I have received emails from many NG members who have let me >
know of their success..
Ian, until now I've given you the benefit of the doubt concerning your
success with modems. The statement above however, has pegged my BS
detector. I don't believe that many would spitefully refuse to post such
information simply because they are offended by some posters here. Why
don't you cut the BS. If you have useful info then post it in the spirit of
professional courtesy. If you don't want to, then why not just stop telling
everyone about it.
--
Jack Stevens
Robert L Bass
> >
> > Although I only do a little programming these days, I am a partner in a
> > contract software developer. I understand a good deal more about comms
and
> > software than many here, but that's nothing special. It's not their
job.
>
>
> Exactly. And if they know bugger all about it then they should stay out
of
> the conversation...
The problem with that is that neither you nor I know precisely how much any
other specific person here know (with the possible exception of *one*
particular person). In Usenet, these aren't really conversations in the
sense of an ofice chat. They are open threads and anyone can and should
participate. It is not unreasonable for anyone, including Mark, to ask for
more information or even to challenge another on the validity of statements
made. By answering such questions with provable facts you can dispell any
questions as to the veracity of your claims. Others may then accept or
reject what you're saying, but at least an unbiased reader will be able to
discern what is going on. You're not under any obligation to prove what you
say. But I would encourage you to do so.
> >>But the CMS hardware has to be SIA compatible - as you say "..need is a
> >>receiver that can process SIA". And that's the hassle - there aren't
that
> >>many of those around, at least down here. 99.9% of monitoring down this
> >>
> > way
> >
> >>uses Contact ID. It works. It's quick. Why change... ?
> >>
> >
> > Perhaps that's what is so different in my world from yours. There are
> > plenty of SIA compatible receivers around here. Everyone wants to brag
that
> > his CMS can handle all the latest formats so there's a marketing impetus
to
> > stay on the leading edge. Most of the time that's a good thing.
>
> Indeed.. But how many of those CMS's with SIA compatible receivers
actually
> receive SIA high speed format ??
Almost all of the large CMS seem to be using it. You can program any panel
with SIA capabilities to report in the format. If the CMS has the right
receiver the rest is simple. That's one of the main advantages to going
with these "smart" reporting formats.
> How many panels down your way send the SIA high speed format ??
I don't know the answer to that. I do know that a number of manufacturers
advertise their systems as SIA enabled. Am I missing something?
> How many can be connected directly to cellular phones??
Almost any panel reporting in digital formats can be connected using a
cellular add-on. Some also work with units that transmit on the cellular
control channel.
> How many can interface direct to
> a CDMA network ??? I could continue.....
I don't know that either. Would you like to share a bit on the subject?
I'm not being sarcastic, Ian. I'd like to hear more from you on the
subject.
> > If you've got a current production modem and an init string to configure
it
> > to talk to a SIA receiver, why not lay your cards on the table. That's
the
> > only way you'll get Mark to believe you.
>
> The modem in this PC I am using from home is :-
> Conexant Soft 56 Data, Fax, RTAD PCI modem
>
> The init string I use for panels is:
> AT+ms=BEL103,0,300,300^MATS10=255^M
>
> The modem in my PC in my office is a Rockwell beast - can't remember its
model
> off the top of my head.
>
> Its init string is
> AT+ms=64,0,0,0^MATS10=255^M
Excellent! Now if Mark can get hold of one of these he can test your
method. Knowing him for several years (as well as can be done via Usenet)
I'd expect him to be honest in reporting his results.
> We have found many variants of the +ms command. Somewhere over in the
office
> we have a list of some we have found but we actually find it quicker to
get
> our hands on the modem and try the various options. Mainly because we
have
> found variations with the same model of modem from the same manufacturer.
> Depended in the firmware revision.
>
> Which is why I cannot give a simple answer to Mark, or anyone else. All I
can
> do, and have done, is suggest they try AT+ms? or AT+ms=? and see what
their
> modem spits back.
In the preceeding oparagraphs you have given enough to start. Thank you.
Perhaps we can get some consensus on this soon.
> Mark seems reluctant to try even this simple exercise.
I'm loathe to make assumptions as to motive. He may or may not have access
to the specified modems. But by providing some specifics you've at least
opened the door. We'll see what comes next.
>> Come on, now. We're all discussing the same issue. BTW, you used the
wrong
>> homonym above. I believe you meant to say "a different plane."
>
> I wrote it that way initially - didn't look right :)
Heh, heh, heh.
> > If you're building a new panel or receiver, I agree. But here in the US
you
> > can just hop over to ADI and order a SIA compatible panel and receiver.
>
> Great. But in case you haven't actually noticed there is a much larger
world
> out there. The number of panels sold in the USA is a fraction of those
sold
> world-wide. This is typical yank arrogance - if it isn't available in the
USA
> it doesn't exist.
That's not fair, Ian. You asked how many I've seen. I can only answer for
what I see here in the USA. I don't automatically assume that what we do is
(a) the best way; or (b) the most common way. It's just what I'm able to
observe from my small corner of the globe. But that is the corner about
which you inquired of me. Calling my reply "yank arrogance" is not only
unfair. It is also not conducive to an open dialogue.
> In fact, outside the USA we aren't particularly interested in things like
UL,
> things like a so called 'International building code' (That's purely a
States
> code - NOT international), things like FCC regs... the list goes on.
I also get a kick out of it when someone from the UK posts about some piece
of hardware only to have a US poster ask if it's "FCC listed." :*)
> The original poster, Homerj, is from Auckland, NZ. NOT the USA.
>> Most of thefolks here are either alarm installers, alarm users
>
> Who have no idea about SIA formats etc so should simply stay out of the
> discussion unless they have something constructive to contribute...
By whose standards? If we are to decide who can contribute to which thread
we become a moderated group -- the surest way kill a good Usenet forum.
Even with all of the verbal excrement that gets spilled here, this is still
a very good place to come for information on things relavent to electronic
security. Each of us has different levels of knowledge and experience in
various aspects of the trade. Each is welcome to join in any thread.
> > or alarm manufacturer techs.
>
> Who may well have some knowledge of the subject..
Some do and some don't.
> > Some seem to do a terrible job. :(
>
> I was being kind... :)
I thought so.
> ... on this one subject of modems and init strings he has taken the
> attitude that it can't be done based solely on the fact, and by his
> own admission, that he can't be bothered trying various commands
> to see the effect. That is his prerogative BUT that does not give
> him the right to turn around and say I don't know what I'm talking
> about just because I haven't posted numerous init strings to prove
> the point.
Well, I believe it can be done, but I haven't the time to test it out on a
bunch of modems either. Does that make me any different from Mark?
(Actually, the MM claims I'm related to Mark by marriage).
J. Stevens
> And given he is from down here I suspect he will definitely find the time
to
> try various settings - we tend to actually think outside the square and
> attempt these things - maybe it's a Kiwi trait....
Ah, yes. That explains all those marvelous inventions that came out of NZ.
There was the ...er...well, how 'bout the...hmmmm...
--
Jack Stevens
alarman2...@yahoo.com
remove NOSPAM to reply
Mike Simpson
"J. Stevens" <no...@nothanks.com> wrote in message
news:_thz8.20583$ab.13...@news2.west.cox.net...
Jack....go here to some NZ inventions....
http://www.fieldays.co.nz/2001_images.asp
Mike
m..leuck
"Ian T" <ia...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message news:3CCD3F8...@ihug.co.nz...
> m..leuck wrote:
> >
> > Telling someone it can be done then leaving them hanging by telling them
to
> > go play with various settings of a modem does them no good at all, I
would
> > have far more respect for you on this if you could post at least 1
example
> > of how you made ANY modem work with ohh say an FBI panel, or Ademco,
>
>
>
> > now apparently ANY modem can send SIA and Contact ID signals....
>
>
> They can ??? How?? This I would like to see.. I definitely have never
said
> this..
>
>
> >
> > Again, you have yet to provide any information to do so, unless you've
> > tested EVERY modem I seriously doubt ANY modem can do it, you are
starting
> > to sound like our "friend" from Belgium.
>
>
> To date we have had a 100% success rate. While there may well be a modem
or
> two out there that may not do 300 baud with the correct coercion, it
hasn't
> turned up in NZ. Until I get one that we can't make operate at 300 baud
I'll
> stick with the ANY.
Sending 300 baud isn't what was originally discussed here, it was about
sending SIA, I agree with you it would be almost impossible to find a modem
that can't do 300 baud
> > times
> >
> >> that you do not have the time to shag about experimenting to try and
> >>
> > make
> >
> >>the modems work.
> >>
> >
> > Yes and I doubt the original poster has time either
I should amend that, I have worked with init strings in the past to try
making them work however the end result is it isn't worth it
> He doesn't need to because he doesn't want to use the modem in the way you
are
> referring. He wants it for SIA format.
Yes I know
> And given he is from down here I suspect he will definitely find the time
to
> try various settings - we tend to actually think outside the square and
> attempt these things - maybe it's a Kiwi trait....
Must be, however since neither of us knows his experience with modem init
strings I assume he doesn't know very much about it or he wouldn't be asking
here
> >>try various settings and have had 100% success. They will not post
those
> >>results here primarily because of this bloody minded attitude of yours
> >>
> >
> > I'm open for any suggestions on how I can get a more common modem to
work
> > with a given panel and I'm sure others are as well, and now we are to
> > believe others are hiding info in fear of ME? please...
>
>
> I have made suggestions in the past - start by trying an AT+ms? or AT+ms=?
> command and see what your modem responds with.. Many modern modems
recognise
> the +ms command (and there are several variants unfortunately of what
comes
> after the =) but you won't find it in their documentation.
>
> You actually have to push keys on the keyboard and TRY things.. Something
you
> have always maintained you don't have the time to do..
I'm well aware of most of the AT commands thank you, I'm also aware that if
you can get the modem to operate at a given speed however it still won't do
what you want it to do because speed is only one factor
> >>few others. I have received emails from many NG members who have let me
> >>
> > know
> >
> >>of their success..
> >>
> >
> > Good, I guess its all of your groups little secret then
>
>
> There's no secret about it. It's simply a case of getting off ones arse
(ass
> for the yanks) and actually trying something..
I'm doubtful this is the case, what am I going to do if someone does post a
working init string to do what the original poster asked? ridicule him? Of
course not since there is no reason to do so, I would be more than happy to
test it out
> > Not really, I'm sure some modems are common between our countries, pick
one
> > like ummmmm a 3-Com 56k, or how about a Supra? I suspect you may have a
few
> > laying around just waiting to send SIA and Contact ID
>
>
> I don't have ANY modems that can 'send contact ID'. I do have a few that
can
> happily send the SIA 'high speed' format.
> And the Supra obeys the +ms command - can't remember which variant off the
top
> of my head but try AT+ms=? and report back what it spits out...
I find that rather odd since Contact ID is touch-tones anyone can do by
pushing phone keys, since I now know you have used a Supra you can now tell
me how to enable it to work with an FBI panel including the warble tones? Or
how to make it send SIA
> > Tell you what, since you've already done this you can tell me what
modems
> > you did get working and what init strings you used right?
>
>
> I could but given your total disbelief and lack of nouse or enthusiasm to
try
> it yourself, I'm not about to. I'll help those that make an attempt to
help
> themselves. I will not help those who do nothing but denigrate others.
> Your opening sentence of your first post in this thread set the tone for
any
> further discussion with you. it was "I doubt it." then your opening
sentence
> in your first response after I entered the thread capped it off.
Again contrary to your opinion of me I do not have total disbelief, I'd like
to see what you've done with this, what I have a problem is when someone
posts a question here such as homerj did and you state its easy to do yet
the only help you can give him is to "look at the manual and play with the
settings" you have done nothing to help him. Especially when we don't know
if he has done ANYTHING in the past with modem init strings (common when
Windows does most of it for you). They don't know it because they've never
needed to know it, heck I've forgotten most of what I learned back in the
BBS 300 baud days
Had you said "homerj I've done something like that and you might try this or
this but your modem may have problems doing it" we wouldn't be having this
debate now
I'll accept that, now if you could post some strings showing us all how it
works with say a Supra modem we'll all be happy
> > Contrary to your opinion of me I am not closed minded, I can think of a
few
> > things I'd like to do with this however so far you've been very open
about
> > how it can easily be done (hey does that sound familiar?) but provided
no
> > examples...none...zilch...nada
>
>
> What do I have to provide examples of ???
Umm I thought it was how to send SIA tones to an alarm receiver
> To do SIA format all that is required is a modem - and a panel or whatever
> that talks SIA - and a CMS that receives SIA. While the original
> documentation specified 300 baud it can operate at higher speeds.
> All the info is in the SIA document.
Great, now be more specific
m..leuck
although the 4th image from the left in the top row does raise some
questions
"Mike Simpson" <msi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:aakbbo$bfcp8$1...@ID-123047.news.dfncis.de...
m..leuck
I couldn't have said it better
J. Stevens
Okay, but what are you specifically referring to?
Nomen Nescio
>There was the ...er...well, how 'bout the...hmmmm...
They invented sheep, didn't they? Or was it just things you can do with
sheep?
m..leuck
> >
> > Although I only do a little programming these days, I am a partner in a
> > contract software developer. I understand a good deal more about comms
and
> > software than many here, but that's nothing special. It's not their
job.
>
>
> Exactly. And if they know bugger all about it then they should stay out
of
> the conversation...
Do not forget that the original poster didn't know "bugger" about it, should
he then not have asked the question?
> > Perhaps that's what is so different in my world from yours. There are-
> > plenty of SIA compatible receivers around here. Everyone wants to brag
that
> > his CMS can handle all the latest formats so there's a marketing impetus
to
> > stay on the leading edge. Most of the time that's a good thing.
>
>
> Indeed.. But how many of those CMS's with SIA compatible receivers
actually
> receive SIA high speed format ??
With us it's about 1/3rd of the 400,000+ panels we monitor (my guess)
> How many panels down your way send the SIA high speed format ?? How many
can
> be connected directly to cellular phones ?? How many can interface direct
to
> a CDMA network ??? I could continue.....
None that I know of here
> > If you've got a current production modem and an init string to configure
it
> > to talk to a SIA receiver, why not lay your cards on the table. That's
the
> > only way you'll get Mark to believe you.
>
>
> The modem in this PC I am using from home is :-
> Conexant Soft 56 Data, Fax, RTAD PCI modem
>
> The init string I use for panels is:
> AT+ms=BEL103,0,300,300^MATS10=255^M
>
> The modem in my PC in my office is a Rockwell beast - can't remember its
model
> off the top of my head.
> Its init string is
> AT+ms=64,0,0,0^MATS10=255^M
Thank you, now I can test something, that one didn't work on my 2400 Optima
and the USR Courier V-Everything I have on my desk, it also didn't much like
the AT+ms? command, shows ERROR, the Courior is a rockwell chipset, looking
through the documentation and I don't see the AT+ms command you refer to
anywhere for this model of modem
> We have found many variants of the +ms command. Somewhere over in the
office
> we have a list of some we have found but we actually find it quicker to
get
> our hands on the modem and try the various options. Mainly because we
have
> found variations with the same model of modem from the same manufacturer.
> Depended in the firmware revision.
That I know very well with my 4 Hayes 9600 modems I mentioned in the past
>
> Which is why I cannot give a simple answer to Mark, or anyone else. All I
can
> do, and have done, is suggest they try AT+ms? or AT+ms=? and see what
their
> modem spits back.
Again, all I got was an error in Hyperterminal, now my USR is by far is/was
the most popular modem out there and the odds of someone having one here or
elsewhere in the world are fairly good.
> Mark seems reluctant to try even this simple exercise. He doesn't want to
do
> his bit to help - he has stated on numerous occasions that he does not
have
> the time to experiment (I suspect the lack of nouse..) - so why the fuck
> should I try and answer his questions ?
You have yet to answer the original posters question either which is pretty
much my entire point
> Great. But in case you haven't actually noticed there is a much larger
world
> out there. The number of panels sold in the USA is a fraction of those
sold
> world-wide. This is typical yank arrogance - if it isn't available in the
USA
> it doesn't exist.
No, we are familiar with our own panels much like you are familiar with
yours
> > Most of thefolks here are either alarm installers, alarm users
>
>
> Who have no idea about SIA formats etc so should simply stay out of the
> discussion unless they have something constructive to contribute...
I am not an installer, I am at the central station and I have a nice SurGard
MLR2 on my bench which gladly accepts SIA or about anything else I've thrown
at it in the past 2 1/2 years. I have used it in the past several times to
try figuring out why several panels in the Hartford CT don't like sending
SIA and some from the same area do, or why panels in some Salt Lake City
areas send Contact ID sometimes then the next day can't, I've also worked
with an ITI CS4000/5000, Radionics 6500/6600, SurGard Virtual 2000 and
internet monitoring, I am not who you think I am
. As far as constructive things to say which is more constructive? Telling
someone who may not know anything about modems that it likely can't be done
and/or may be too difficult to attempt to make it worth it or telling him it
can be done and you've done it many times then leaving him hanging by not
following up with the complete (as much as you can get it) information?
> I have read many of Marks postings over the last few years. Most I have
found
> to be very informative. However, on this one subject of modems and init
> strings he has taken the attitude that it can't be done based solely on
the
> fact, and by his own admission, that he can't be bothered trying various
> commands to see the effect. That is his prerogative BUT that does not
give
> him the right to turn around and say I don't know what I'm talking about
just
> because I haven't posted numerous init strings to prove the point.
Again, I have stated from the beginning it DOUBT it can be done, not that it
can't, you have yet to dispute that either way
I'm going to go out on a limb with this but I suspect I know where the
problem lies, I have no doubts of your abilities yet I also suspect you have
been doing it for so long it all seems easy therefore it shouldn't be a
problem for anyone else, I do the same thing troubleshooting alarm systems
while doing tech support, I often forget the tech I'm talking to may not
have ever programmed the system before, heck they may have never cracked
open the book (if it even exists on some of the ancient stuff still out
there), I have to catch myself and think things like "is this something the
tech will want to do or will he get totally confused by my so-called "easy"
explaination that he won't do it?". I can try to get a feel of what he is
capable of doing and what he isn't and make a judgement call, in the example
you and I are debating is if homerj or anyone else reading this thread even
knows what the hell we are talking about, I also recall my first days of
owning a 300 baud Atari modem and wondering what an init string is and why
should I use it (at the time (1984 I think) I finally threw that book away
since to me none of it made any sense at the time, only later did I have a
use for it and finally learned what SOME of the commands did, I doubt I can
put together an init string like you can but this isn't something I'm
unfamiliar with
I will let this one go, if you wish to make general statements on sending
SIA or Contact ID with a standard modem to a central station receiver or by
making a particular modem work with a given panel feel free however I'd
really love to know who gets what software working with what modem, I
suspect the successful results will be far far less than you think they are
m..leuck
the History Channel is my guide :)
"Nomen Nescio" <nob...@dizum.com> wrote in message
news:7d0c707628cda1a1...@dizum.com...
Mike Simpson
Mike Simpson
Exactly..... :-)
J. Stevens
--
Jack Stevens
alarman2...@yahoo.com
remove NOSPAM to reply
"Mike Simpson" <msi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:aakphk$bcdv5$1...@ID-123047.news.dfncis.de...
Ian T
> He's definitely *not* a moderator of anything on Usenet.
I gathered that..
> In fact, this is an unmoderated news group.
Indeed it is.
> Calling himself "Group Moderator" is roughly the
> Usenet equivalent of going around wearing a policeman's badge. The only
> difference is in real life you get arrested whereas here we just laugh at
> him.
Funnily enough, in some parts of the world he CAN be arrested for doing what
he's doing - there's a couple of people down here who are a few thousands of
dollars lighter because of their comments on public NG's. Just because he can
get away with it in the States doesn't make it legal elsewhere..
>
> His name is Michael Sabodish, Sr. He posts from Matawan, NJ via AOL using a
> number of false names as well as his own. He bought a bunch of accounts
> some years ago from a guy who was unable to continue his business due to a
> break down. According to the people at the central station where he farms
> out his monitoring, he has not installed any new accounts in years. That's
> not surprising, given the aberrant behavior he displays here.
Definitely not surprising.. In fact I would have thought any
wholesaler/supplier who was shown some of his crap would cancel all dealings
with him immediately.
>
> He also has convinced himself that Mark Leuck and I are his worst enemies
> (actually, he fulfills that role rather well himself). He's been harassing
> and flaming folks here for several years. Every once in a while he seems to
> calm down for a while, presumably when he gets back on his meds. After a
> few days or weeks he returns spouting more of the same drivel.
I have noticed that.
>
> Oh, by the way, he also claims to have over 30 years in the trade. But he
> has admitted that he counts his years spent as a telephone clerk working for
> ADT (not installing or servicing anything) as *double* years of experience.
> It's an interesting form of mathematics which would do the Al Gore vs.
> George Bush debates proud.
Perhaps he uses dog years, or maybe Ass years....
I guess we just ignore him :)
73 de Ian.
Ian T
> Ian T wrote
>
>>And given he is from down here I suspect he will definitely find the time
>>
> to
>
>>try various settings - we tend to actually think outside the square and
>>attempt these things - maybe it's a Kiwi trait....
>>
>
>
> Ah, yes. That explains all those marvelous inventions that came out of NZ.
> There was the ...er...well, how 'bout the...hmmmm...
Off the top of my head...
First person to fly using powered aircraft - it was NOT the Wright brothers.
Inventor of the Atomic Age - Ernest Rutherford.
Barbed Wire - yup, that's a Kiwi invention.
Ultrasonic spectacles to guide the blind..
... and that's without thinking too hard.
73 de Ian.
Robert L Bass
"Nomen Nescio" <nob...@dizum.com> wrote in message
news:7d0c707628cda1a1...@dizum.com...
Robert L Bass
--
Regards,
Robert L Bass
=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
The Online DIY Alarm Store
http://www.Bass-Home.com
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota, FL 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
941-925-9747 Fax
rober...@comcast.net
=============================>
"m..leuck" <m.l....@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:Dalz8.174431$CH1.127129@sccrnsc02...
homerj
To Ian :-
>>Not only are we from the same country, and city, but about 12
>>or so years ago Andotek and Arrowhead were both part of the
>>same company - Staefa. Not sure if you were around at that
>>time... (I wasn't, at least not with Arrowhead..)
Yes, we were all once part of the same commercial group. Arrowhead
split first. We split later. Noel knows all about it. As with you,
however, it was all before I joined.
>>I have to be tad careful as Andotek are our competitors in
>>one particular area, although I believe you do use our panels
>>for building management or similar.. :)
Yep, and GOOD panels they are too ( in case anyone WORTHWHILE is
looking ). As for competitors, we buy stuff from you - not the other
way around - so doesn't that make us valued customers !
>>Knowing the company he works for I think he knew EXACTLY what
>>you were talking about..
[Grin with humility] our reputation must be wider than I thought.
>>AT+ms=BEL103,0,300,300^MATS10=255^M
>>AT+ms=64,0,0,0^MATS10=255^M
I take it you actually needed to post this stuff for the benefit of
(some) members of the USA audience ?
>>Which is why you have no idea what we are ACTUALLY talking
>>about. The SIA protocol is a modem - to - modem protocol.
>>The initial spec works at 300 baud but it can actually be
>> used at any speed - yup, right up to 56k as long
>> as both ends have the appropriate modems.
Exactly as I've always suspected. Nothing magic going on here.
Ian, I guess [yawn] we may as well just do this to keep the nay-sayers
from biting at the ankles too hard. Do you have an alarm receiver card
that you use for testing your panels in-house or should I see if I can
set up something through a friendly local monitoring company ?
To Mark :-
>>It may be possible but again I doubt it or someone would
>>have invented it by now and I have a major use for it if
>>such a way exists
What can I say ? If you cosy up real nice to Ian in the coming days he
may just be persuaded to share the technique we end up using to send
simple SIA to an alarm receiver. Then you can go off and make lots of
money from addressing that "major use" you mention.
To be fair though, if you hadn't have gotten Ian's back up by saying
that it was unlikely it could be done, he would probably have never
got involved in this discussion. So we owe you that much at least !
Ian T <ia...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message news:<3CCD48CA...@ihug.co.nz>...
Robert L Bass
>
> Robert L Bass wrote:
>
>> He's definitely *not* a moderator of anything on Usenet.
>
> I gathered that..
>
>> In fact, this is an unmoderated news group.
>
> Indeed it is.
>
>> Calling himself "Group Moderator" is roughly the
>> Usenet equivalent of going around wearing a policeman's badge. The only
>> difference is in real life you get arrested whereas here we just laugh at
>> him.
>
>
> Funnily enough, in some parts of the world he CAN be arrested for
> doing what he's doing - there's a couple of people down here who
> are a few thousands of dollars lighter because of their comments
> on public NG's. Just because he can get away with it in the States
> doesn't make it legal elsewhere..
It's illegal here, too. It's called stalking and it's a felony. The thing
is in order to prosecute the dolt someone has to be willing to devote the
time and energy to pursue the matter. That leaves me out. I've gotr far
better things to do than sit across the room and look at him behind the
defense table in New Jersey. Besides, I figure any thinking person can se
right through him. The only people who support his blather are a few idiots
with major axes to grind themselves. The other side of this is the
possibility of a civil action. I investigated that avenue about three years
ago. I have several close relatives in NJ who are a civil attorneys. One
ran a superficial check on the guy to see what we might take from him in
court. It turns out he hasn't the proverbial pot to pee in. That makes him
what lawyers call "judgment proof" since there's nothing to be had. It also
may indicates part of th reason he's so hateful. He sees others as
successful in the field where he has pretty much failed and it irks him.
Then when he makes a few ill-tempered comments he gets smacked verbally by
people of obvious;y superior intellect (actually the average turnip may
qualify on that score) and it further enrages him.
>> His name is Michael Sabodish, Sr. He posts from Matawan, NJ via AOL
>> using a number of false names as well as his own. He bought a bunch of
>> accounts some years ago from a guy who was unable to continue his
>> business due to a break down. According to the people at the central
>> station where he farms out his monitoring, he has not installed any new
>> accounts in years. That's not surprising, given the aberrant behavior he
>> displays here.
>
> Definitely not surprising.. In fact I would have thought any
> wholesaler/supplier who was shown some of his crap would
> cancel all dealings with him immediately.
You ought to have heard what the owner of the contract central station he
uses had to say about him when samples of his hate mail were forwarded to
him. I made the comment, "Well, he's your friend..." and the guy nearly
burst a vessel. The sad part is Sabodish actually thinks the guy is his
friend.
>> He also has convinced himself that Mark Leuck and I are his worst
>> enemies (actually, he fulfills that role rather well himself). He's
>> been harassing and flaming folks here for several years. Every once
>> in a while he seems to calm down for a while, presumably when he
>> gets back on his meds. After a few days or weeks he returns
>> spouting more of the same drivel.
>
> I have noticed that.
>
>> Oh, by the way, he also claims to have over 30 years in the trade.
>> But he has admitted that he counts his years spent as a telephone
>> clerk working for ADT (not installing or servicing anything) as
>> *double* years of experience. It's an interesting form of mathematics
>> which would do the Al Gore vs. George Bush debates proud.
>
> Perhaps he uses dog years, or maybe Ass years....
Or horse's a##. Whatever. :^)
> I guess we just ignore him :)
Almost everyone does. I have him filtered. He only pops up when someone
quotes him while suggesting he jump off of something.
J. Stevens
> Off the top of my head...
>
> First person to fly using powered aircraft - it was NOT the Wright
brothers.
>
> Inventor of the Atomic Age - Ernest Rutherford.
>
> Barbed Wire - yup, that's a Kiwi invention.
>
> Ultrasonic spectacles to guide the blind..
>
>
> ... and that's without thinking too hard.
Touche.
Why did I know you'd come up with some really good ones? :-)
Ok, Ian. I was poking a little fun at your expense after your inference
that we Americans are not capable of creative thought.
Ian T
... snip ...
>>
>
> Sending 300 baud isn't what was originally discussed here, it was about
sending
> SIA,
Correct. Which has got NOTHING to do with init strings..
> I agree with you it would be almost impossible to find a modem that
> can't do 300 baud
John asked for information on the SIA format. The high speed ASCII format.
NOT SIA tones.
He was not asking for init strings.
It was YOU who introduced init strings into the discussion.
>
>> He doesn't need to because he doesn't want to use the modem in the way
>> you
>>
> are
>
>> referring. He wants it for SIA format.
>>
>
> Yes I know
So why keep harping on about init strings. That's not what he asked for in
the first place.
>>
>
> Must be, however since neither of us knows his experience with modem init
strings
> I assume he doesn't know very much about it or he wouldn't be asking here
He wasn't. YOU introduced init strings into the discussion because YOU had
no idea what John was actually asking about. Go back and look at his, and
your, first postings... John has NEVER asked about init strings.
>>
>
> I'm well aware of most of the AT commands thank you, I'm also aware that if
you can get the modem to operate at a given speed however it still won't do
> what you want it to do because speed is only one factor
Correct, BUT the +ms command *usually* takes care of the other factors such as
disabling compression and error checking etc. I say *usually* because I have
had one instance when this wasn't the case.. Oh, for a 'standard'...
>
>
>>
>
> I'm doubtful this is the case, what am I going to do if someone does post a
> working init string to do what the original poster asked?
Again, because you seem hell bent on init strings, he wasn't asking about
init strings.
Here is his ORIGINAL question:-
<quote>
Is it possible to use a standard Hayes compatible modem
(300/1200/2400/56K) to send SIA Modem (Bell or CCITT) format alarm
messages to an alarm receiver ?
Application in mind is remote automation systems that need to dial out
alarms to a central monitoring station.
No problems with any character sequences that the protocol may
require. The automation system can send or receive any ASCII character
sequence(s).
Just concerned that there may be some non-standard modem frequencies
or timings involved with alarm receivers that would throw a standard
PC type modem off the case.
</quote>
Mark,
Where is there anything in the above message about init strings ???
All he is concerned about is the possibility of non-standard modem
frequencies. And I answered that in my first post.
Then we have your reply - the first reply to John's question :-
<quote>
I doubt it
</quote >
Mark,
I fail to see where that is of any help to John.
John replied with:-
<quote>
Would have thought there was a possibility with formats like :-
SIA level I and II formats: 110 and 300 baud or Radionics Modem II
format.
Or perhaps the latest SIA DC-03 (R2000.11) format which I see is now
up for ANSI standards approval.
</quote>
Again, nothing about init strings. In fact, because of his reference to the
level I and II formats from SIA DC-03 it is obvious, to me at least, that
John's experience is somewhat higher than 'init strings'..
Your highly helpful reply:-
<quote>
It may be possible but again I doubt it or someone would have invented it by
now and I have a major use for it if such a way exists, I did know of
software that used software and a standard modem to decode contact id but
thats something different than from what you are trying to do
One way you might consider is recording the format into WAV format and
sending it, I've seen that done however you'd have to make sure you get the
timing correct between your "panel" and the receiver
</quote>
Wtf are you on about - it HAS been invented. John has made reference to the
2000 copy of SIA DC-03. Not only has it been invented, it has also been
documented.
YOU introduce 'contact id' into the discussion then some ridiculous idea of
using WAV files.. Go back and read his original question...
It was obvious at this point that you had absolutely no idea what John was
actually talking about. You confirmed this many times since...
Then we have a reply from John - again, nothing about init strings..
Then I come on board - nothing about init strings.
John responds.. Ditto.
Then you reply taking a jab at me and then start rabitting on about things not
remotely connected with the topic and, surprise surprise, init strings are now
part of the discussion.
> ridicule him? Of course not since there is no reason to do so, I would be
more than happy to
> test it out
Your very first sentence after I entered the discussion was :-
<quote>
Unfortunatly Ian is great at saying it can be done however he falls short in
actually doing it enough to be able to tell someone else how
</quote>
As for the 'testing it out' , DO SO and let's see the results.
... snip ...
>>
>
> I find that rather odd since Contact ID is touch-tones anyone can do by
> pushing phone keys,
Which has got WHAT to do with a modem ??? Which has got WHAT to do with the
SIA format ???
> since I now know you have used a Supra you can now tell me how to enable it
to work with an FBI panel including the warble tones?
I suspect the 'warble' tones are the standard inter-modem exchange to
establish speed and protocol. Our panels do the same thing.
It means we can use bell103 or CCITT V21 protocols without actually having to
specify which one we are using. The 'warbles' consist of a series of tones
starting with 2225Hz used to ascertain the speed and protocol. ALL modems
can do that. Basically, the modem will only respond to the correct tone set.
> Or how to make it send SIA
Easy. Read SIA DC-03.
However we, John & I, are talking about SIA high speed format - ASCII
characters sent over a standard modem link.
We are NOT talking about SIA tones - the 1400 and 2300 Hz tones used for 4+2
and CID etc handshaking. A normal modem cannot do those.
... snip ...
>
>
>
> Again contrary to your opinion of me I do not have total disbelief, I'd
> like
> to see what you've done with this, what I have a problem is when someone
> posts a question here such as homerj did
Go and read his question again.
> and you state its easy to do yet
> the only help you can give him is to "look at the manual and play with the
> settings" you have done nothing to help him.
I have done ALL I can to help him except for sending him a copy of SIA DC-03.
He has obviously seen the document but does not have a copy - he has said as
much. I have a copy. I paid $US?? for it.
If he, or Andotek Systems, want to develop the link, using SIA format, between
their device and a CMS then let them spend $US?? and get their own copy of the
manual. I stopped being a bank when my kids got old enough to leave home :)
(At least that was the plan...)
> Especially when we don't know
> if he has done ANYTHING in the past with modem init strings (common when
> Windows does most of it for you). They don't know it because they've never
> needed to know it, heck I've forgotten most of what I learned back in the
> BBS 300 baud days
Again with those init strings.
>
> Had you said "homerj I've done something like that and you might try this or
> this but your modem may have problems doing it" we wouldn't be having this
> debate now
But he was not asking about modem strings or anything to do with his modem.
Go and re-read his message AGAIN!!! His modem should have no problems doing it.
>>
>
> Umm I thought it was how to send SIA tones to an alarm receiver
Nope. There's been no discussion about SIA tones - other than what you have
generated.
John wanted to know about the SIA format - the high speed ASCII format. NOT
the 1400 and 2300 Hz tones.
>
>
>>To do SIA format all that is required is a modem - and a panel or whatever
>>that talks SIA - and a CMS that receives SIA. While the original
>>documentation specified 300 baud it can operate at higher speeds.
>>All the info is in the SIA document.
>>
>
> Great, now be more specific
Why. It's all in the document. If YOU want to know more then YOU buy the
document. Ditto for John. My library is closed.
73 de Ian.
Ian T
> They have a reputation for being the most hospitable people on earth.
>
Yup... And if you don't toe the line it's into the Hangi pit and you become
part of the next nights Kai.
73 de Ian.
Ian T
> Ian T wrote
>
>>Off the top of my head...
>>
>>First person to fly using powered aircraft - it was NOT the Wright
>>
> brothers.
>
>>Inventor of the Atomic Age - Ernest Rutherford.
>>
>>Barbed Wire - yup, that's a Kiwi invention.
>>
>>Ultrasonic spectacles to guide the blind..
>>
>>
>>... and that's without thinking too hard.
>>
>
> Touche.
>
> Why did I know you'd come up with some really good ones? :-)
> Ok, Ian. I was poking a little fun at your expense after your inference
> that we Americans are not capable of creative thought.
I'll let you off...
You came up with Al Gore.. Now, THAT's creative :)
And Homer Simpson..
But we get to keep Xena.
73 de Ian.
Mike Simpson
Rather a nice site on NZ here....
http://www.nzedge.com/heroes/index.html
Mike
J. Stevens
> You came up with Al Gore.. Now, THAT's creative :)
Nope, I think he was planted by aliens.
> And Homer Simpson..
My hero.
> But we get to keep Xena.
Too angry. You can keep her. :-)
Ian T
> "Ian T" <ia...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:3CCD4599...@ihug.co.nz...
>
>>>Although I only do a little programming these days, I am a partner in a
>>>contract software developer. I understand a good deal more about comms
>>>
> and
>
>>>software than many here, but that's nothing special. It's not their
>>>
> job.
>
>>
>>Exactly. And if they know bugger all about it then they should stay out
>>
> of
>
>>the conversation...
>>
>
> Do not forget that the original poster didn't know "bugger" about it, should
> he then not have asked the question?
Perhaps I should re-phrase my statement...
If they want to introduce other, non-related, topics then they should stay out
of it..
Like introducing init strings when they have NOTHING to do with the original
question.
>
>
>
>>>Perhaps that's what is so different in my world from yours. There are-
>>>plenty of SIA compatible receivers around here. Everyone wants to brag
>>>
> that
>
>>>his CMS can handle all the latest formats so there's a marketing impetus
>>>
> to
>
>>>stay on the leading edge. Most of the time that's a good thing.
>>>
>>
>>Indeed.. But how many of those CMS's with SIA compatible receivers
>>
> actually
>
>>receive SIA high speed format ??
>>
>
> With us it's about 1/3rd of the 400,000+ panels we monitor (my guess)
Impressive.. Guess that's the marketing hype..
>
>
>>How many panels down your way send the SIA high speed format ??
But this is the more important question..
I KNOW the answer is very few.
... snip ...
>
>
>>>If you've got a current production modem and an init string to configure
>>>
> it
>
>>>to talk to a SIA receiver, why not lay your cards on the table. That's
>>>
> the
>
>>>only way you'll get Mark to believe you.
There is no init string to make a modem talk to an SIA receiver.... I think
you have also got SIA high speed format - what John was querying, and SIA
tones confused.
> Thank you, now I can test something, that one didn't work on my 2400 Optima
> and the USR Courier V-Everything I have on my desk, it also didn't much like
The USR's are a sod! First off, some have more than one default command - the
AT&F We have found AT&F2 to be the best. Then we found you actually need
to disable compression and error checking manually - /N0 and /K0 ring a bell,
or something similar.
> the AT+ms? command, shows ERROR, the Courior is a rockwell chipset, looking
Try AT+ms=?
> through the documentation and I don't see the AT+ms command you refer to
> anywhere for this model of modem
And you probably won't find it in the documentation for most modems. But the
majority of 33.6k and 56k modems support it.
Slower ones are a tad more difficult - you have to disable error etc manually
as well as sometimes needing to force it to 300bd. ATB1 sometimes is all that
is needed.
My son's new modem 56k - about 1 month old - needed no more than ATB59 to make
it work at 300baud into various panels. That command WAS in the PDF file on
the CD else I would never have found it :)
Once again - I wish there was a standard !!
>
>
>>We have found many variants of the +ms command. Somewhere over in the
>>
> office
>
>>we have a list of some we have found but we actually find it quicker to
>>
> get
>
>>our hands on the modem and try the various options. Mainly because we
>>
> have
>
>>found variations with the same model of modem from the same manufacturer.
>>Depended in the firmware revision.
>>
>
> That I know very well with my 4 Hayes 9600 modems I mentioned in the past
Bloody nuisance isn't it...
... snip ...
>>
>
> Again, all I got was an error in Hyperterminal, now my USR is by far is/was
> the most popular modem out there and the odds of someone having one here or
> elsewhere in the world are fairly good.
We have had 100% success with USR's. The details are over in my office - I
try to avoid going there as it's a one+ hour trip each way. I work from home
a lot. Later this year will be great - we shift company premises and I will
be 7.5 minutes away :) Plus another company I own (electronics manufacturing)
is also moving closer...
>
>
>>the time to experiment (I suspect the lack of nouse..) - so why the fuck
>>should I try and answer his questions ?
>>
>
> You have yet to answer the original posters question either which is pretty
> much my entire point
But I have. He was asking about the SIA high speed format, and whether it
would work with his Hayes compatible modem. I said it would.
THAT'S ALL HE ASKED!!!
He made reference to the SIA DC-03 document, as did I - I have my own copy. I
paid for my copy.
He needs info from that document.
He is wanting to interface plant equipment to a CMS via the SIA format.. This
is a commercial project. It may well be in competition to something we are
doing - remember his company is in the same city and in a similar business.
Both his and my companies used to be part of a larger group 12+ years ago.
Therefore, he, or his company, can buy their own manual.
>
>
>>Great. But in case you haven't actually noticed there is a much larger
>>
> world
>
>>out there. The number of panels sold in the USA is a fraction of those
>>
> sold
>
>>world-wide. This is typical yank arrogance - if it isn't available in the
>>
> USA
>
>>it doesn't exist.
>>
>
> No, we are familiar with our own panels much like you are familiar with
> yours
In fact we are also familiar with many of the panels you use.. And shortly
you will be seeing ours on your shelves.. :)
>
>
>>>Most of thefolks here are either alarm installers, alarm users
>>>
>>
>>Who have no idea about SIA formats etc so should simply stay out of the
>>discussion unless they have something constructive to contribute...
>>
>
> I am not an installer, I am at the central station and I have a nice SurGard
> MLR2 on my bench which gladly accepts SIA or about anything else I've thrown
> at it in the past 2 1/2 years. I have used it in the past several times to
> try figuring out why several panels in the Hartford CT don't like sending
> SIA and some from the same area do, or why panels in some Salt Lake City
> areas send Contact ID sometimes then the next day can't, I've also worked
> with an ITI CS4000/5000, Radionics 6500/6600, SurGard Virtual 2000 and
> internet monitoring, I am not who you think I am
My apologies. You are correct - I did not envisage you in that role..
Now, when you say SIA are you talking SIA high speed format, as per SIA DC-03
OR SIA tones as used for 4+2 etc. ??
>
> . As far as constructive things to say which is more constructive? Telling
> someone who may not know anything about modems that it likely can't be done
But there was nothing to suggest he had a modem problem.. That's NOT what he
was asking.
> and/or may be too difficult to attempt to make it worth it or telling him it
> can be done and you've done it many times then leaving him hanging by not
> following up with the complete (as much as you can get it) information?
Again, read his question and my response.
He was worried that there might be special modem frequencies.. My first
message told him there wasn't - it uses standard modem frequencies.
What more can I tell him ???
He KNOWS where to get the manual. He has seen the manual. He simply does not
have a copy of the manual.
>
>
>>I have read many of Marks postings over the last few years. Most I have
>>
> found
>
>>to be very informative. However, on this one subject of modems and init
>>strings he has taken the attitude that it can't be done based solely on
>>
> the
>
>>fact, and by his own admission, that he can't be bothered trying various
>>commands to see the effect. That is his prerogative BUT that does not
>>
> give
>
>>him the right to turn around and say I don't know what I'm talking about
>>
> just
>
>>because I haven't posted numerous init strings to prove the point.
>>
>
> Again, I have stated from the beginning it DOUBT it can be done, not that it
> can't, you have yet to dispute that either way
But I have.. I have already posted a couple of strings that worked.
>
> I'm going to go out on a limb with this but I suspect I know where the
> problem lies, I have no doubts of your abilities yet I also suspect you have
> been doing it for so long it all seems easy therefore it shouldn't be a
> problem for anyone else,
You may well be correct...
> I do the same thing troubleshooting alarm systems
> while doing tech support, I often forget the tech I'm talking to may not
> have ever programmed the system before, heck they may have never cracked
> open the book (if it even exists on some of the ancient stuff still out
> there), I have to catch myself and think things like "is this something the
> tech will want to do or will he get totally confused by my so-called "easy"
> explaination that he won't do it?". I can try to get a feel of what he is
> capable of doing and what he isn't and make a judgement call,
Touche' I guess we could sit down and recount numerous 'scary' stories...
Like the tech who says "The ACDC's are reading 5" - he has a digital
voltmeter with the probe plugged into the AC/DC socket...
> in the example
> you and I are debating is if homerj or anyone else reading this thread even
> knows what the hell we are talking about, I also recall my first days of
> owning a 300 baud Atari modem and wondering what an init string is and why
> should I use it (at the time (1984 I think) I finally threw that book away
> since to me none of it made any sense at the time, only later did I have a
> use for it and finally learned what SOME of the commands did, I doubt I can
> put together an init string like you can but this isn't something I'm
> unfamiliar with
Fair enough... And you will agree there's many, many combinations and
permutations..
>
> I will let this one go, if you wish to make general statements on sending
> SIA or Contact ID with a standard modem to a central station receiver or by
> making a particular modem work with a given panel feel free however I'd
> really love to know who gets what software working with what modem, I
> suspect the successful results will be far far less than you think they are
This is the crux of the confusion. We (homerj = John and I) are not, and
never have been, talking about SIA or contact ID in the way you are. You are
talking SIA tones - the 1400 & 2300 Hz tones for 4+2 and CID handshaking. We
are talking about the SIA format sent over a standard modem link using ASCII
characters. We have been talking about that since his very first message.
I have NEVER made any statement about sending SIA tones or Contact ID with a
standard modem - except to say it cannot be done! Read back through the
messages in this thread - the only one saying that is YOU!
The DTMF signal for CID data can be sent with a modem but the handshaking and
kiss-off tones cannot be sent or detected.
As far as I am concerned modems are used between panels and a CMS or whatever
with SIA high speed ASCII format (referred to in this thread as SIA format) or
similar OR modem links to monitor and/or remotely configure a panel.
I think we have been talking at cross purposes.. :)
73 de Ian.
Ian T
> Hell, doesn't a lot happen around here in 48 hours !
>
> To Ian :-
>
>
>>>Not only are we from the same country, and city, but about 12
>>>or so years ago Andotek and Arrowhead were both part of the
>>>same company - Staefa. Not sure if you were around at that
>>>time... (I wasn't, at least not with Arrowhead..)
>>>
>
> Yes, we were all once part of the same commercial group. Arrowhead
> split first. We split later. Noel knows all about it. As with you,
> however, it was all before I joined.
Noel was telling me all about it a couple of days ago...
Actually, he's the king "modem init string nutter outer".. And he doesn't
stop until he's got the bastard going.. I've done a few but he's done hundreds..
>
>
>>>I have to be tad careful as Andotek are our competitors in
>>>one particular area, although I believe you do use our panels
>>>for building management or similar.. :)
>>>
>
> Yep, and GOOD panels they are too ( in case anyone WORTHWHILE is
> looking ).
Thanks for that... Polishes halo..
> As for competitors, we buy stuff from you - not the other
> way around - so doesn't that make us valued customers !
Guess it does..
>
>
>>>Knowing the company he works for I think he knew EXACTLY what
>>>you were talking about..
>>>
>
> [Grin with humility] our reputation must be wider than I thought.
You might be surprised..
>
>
>>>AT+ms=BEL103,0,300,300^MATS10=255^M
>>>AT+ms=64,0,0,0^MATS10=255^M
>>>
>
> I take it you actually needed to post this stuff for the benefit of
> (some) members of the USA audience ?
Yup. Could have written a sentence in Swahili - would have been just as good :)
>
>
>>>Which is why you have no idea what we are ACTUALLY talking
>>>about. The SIA protocol is a modem - to - modem protocol.
>>>The initial spec works at 300 baud but it can actually be
>>>used at any speed - yup, right up to 56k as long
>>>as both ends have the appropriate modems.
>>>
>
> Exactly as I've always suspected. Nothing magic going on here.
Indeed. As long as modem A speaks the same lingo as modem B then Kapai.
>
> Ian, I guess [yawn] we may as well just do this to keep the nay-sayers
> from biting at the ankles too hard.
Ya reckon that'll work ?
> Do you have an alarm receiver card
> that you use for testing your panels in-house or should I see if I can
> set up something through a friendly local monitoring company ?
Quicker to talk to a friendly monitoring co. Brian Pullen at ARmourguard
could be worth a bell - tell him I said Hi. He is a fellow cricket umpire -
something I do to relax the mind... Not sure if they have SIA high speed
capability or not..
We have our own purpose built testers - not a receiver card. If we want to do
any major testing we have test accounts with CMS's in NZ, Aus, Turkey, Greece,
Israel, China, Malaysia, UK, USA ... And our panels work into them all from NZ.
What's more we can actually connect to a panel in Te Anau and do a full
upload/download... :) (Local Kiwi Joke..)
>
>
> To Mark :-
>
>
>>>It may be possible but again I doubt it or someone would
>>>have invented it by now and I have a major use for it if
>>>such a way exists
>>>
>
> What can I say ? If you cosy up real nice to Ian in the coming days he
> may just be persuaded to share the technique we end up using to send
> simple SIA to an alarm receiver. Then you can go off and make lots of
> money from addressing that "major use" you mention.
>
> To be fair though, if you hadn't have gotten Ian's back up by saying
> that it was unlikely it could be done, he would probably have never
> got involved in this discussion. So we owe you that much at least !
>
>
Hmmmmmmm..
73 de Ian.
Ian T
> "J. Stevens" <no...@nothanks.com> wrote in message
> news:BZmz8.20878$ab.13...@news2.west.cox.net...
>
... snip ...
>>
>
> Rather a nice site on NZ here....
>
> http://www.nzedge.com/heroes/index.html
Thanks for that Mike.. I haven't seen that site before.
Forgot about Pickering being the man behind the US getting into space.
I actually knew one of those listed - Tex Morton. He was a fellow Radio Ham
and I met him on several occasions.
73 de Ian.
Graeme McKenzie
Graeme McKenzie
"Ian T" <ia...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
news:3CCDEFED...@ihug.co.nz...
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/02
m..leuck
> m..leuck wrote:
>
> >
> > Do not forget that the original poster didn't know "bugger" about it,
should
> > he then not have asked the question?
>
>
> Perhaps I should re-phrase my statement...
>
> If they want to introduce other, non-related, topics then they should stay
out
> of it..
>
> Like introducing init strings when they have NOTHING to do with the
original
> question.
This is the original question from homerj
[Is it possible to use a standard Hayes compatible modem
(300/1200/2400/56K) to send SIA Modem (Bell or CCITT) format alarm
messages to an alarm receiver ?
Application in mind is remote automation systems that need to dial out
alarms to a central monitoring station.]
Correct me if I'm right but I would think that would involve some form of
init string or else the modem is useless
> > With us it's about 1/3rd of the 400,000+ panels we monitor (my guess)
>
>
> Impressive.. Guess that's the marketing hype..
Marketing hype?
> >>How many panels down your way send the SIA high speed format ??
>
> But this is the more important question..
> I KNOW the answer is very few.
Any reason why?
> >>>to talk to a SIA receiver, why not lay your cards on the table. That's
> >>>
> > the
> >
> >>>only way you'll get Mark to believe you.
>
>
> There is no init string to make a modem talk to an SIA receiver.... I
think
> you have also got SIA high speed format - what John was querying, and SIA
> tones confused.
>
>
> > Thank you, now I can test something, that one didn't work on my 2400
Optima
> > and the USR Courier V-Everything I have on my desk, it also didn't much
like
>
>
> The USR's are a sod! First off, some have more than one default command -
the
> AT&F We have found AT&F2 to be the best. Then we found you actually
need
> to disable compression and error checking manually - /N0 and /K0 ring a
bell,
> or something similar.
USR's are about the most common modem around here and this was part of my
original point that it involves far more than the user is willing to put up
with when doing something like this
> > the AT+ms? command, shows ERROR, the Courior is a rockwell chipset,
looking
>
>
> Try AT+ms=?
Same error
> > through the documentation and I don't see the AT+ms command you refer to
> > anywhere for this model of modem
>
>
> And you probably won't find it in the documentation for most modems. But
the
> majority of 33.6k and 56k modems support it.
Now this is silly, you expect someone to "play with the settings" when it
may not even be documented and they would have no idea it even exists? This
is again my entire point of why I doubt someone can get it working the way
they want
> Slower ones are a tad more difficult - you have to disable error etc
manually
> as well as sometimes needing to force it to 300bd. ATB1 sometimes is all
that
> is needed.
I threw in the Hayes Optima because it was also sitting on my desk and the
B1 command does work however according to Hayes documentation that forces
1200 baud not 300, either way this is the way to do however again I stress
depending on what you are wanting to do (for example downloading) getting to
the speed is just a small part of the battle, my questions is what are you
trying to do with 300 baud in the first place?
> My son's new modem 56k - about 1 month old - needed no more than ATB59 to
make
> it work at 300baud into various panels. That command WAS in the PDF file
on
> the CD else I would never have found it :)
in my Hayes documentation B59 doesn't exist, B60 is 9600 baud, B15 is
110/300
>
> Once again - I wish there was a standard !!
Which is a large part of why I doubted it worked in the first place :)
> >>found variations with the same model of modem from the same
manufacturer.
> >>Depended in the firmware revision.
> >>
> >
> > That I know very well with my 4 Hayes 9600 modems I mentioned in the
past
>
>
> Bloody nuisance isn't it...
>
> ... snip ...
Yup although in all honesty we are trying to emulate (in my opinion) custom
chips sending non-standard instructions to an alarm receiver
> > Again, all I got was an error in Hyperterminal, now my USR is by far
is/was
> > the most popular modem out there and the odds of someone having one here
or
> > elsewhere in the world are fairly good.
>
>
> We have had 100% success with USR's. The details are over in my office -
I
> try to avoid going there as it's a one+ hour trip each way. I work from
home
> a lot. Later this year will be great - we shift company premises and I
will
> be 7.5 minutes away :) Plus another company I own (electronics
manufacturing)
> is also moving closer...
100% with USR's doing what? Sending SIA tones? Downloading? I guess I should
have asked that a long time ago :)
> > You have yet to answer the original posters question either which is
pretty
> > much my entire point
>
>
> But I have. He was asking about the SIA high speed format, and whether it
> would work with his Hayes compatible modem. I said it would.
> THAT'S ALL HE ASKED!!!
He wants to send SIA signals with his Hayes compatible modem to an alarm
receiver, you said it would but we still have yet to be able to do that it
seems. my point is this doesn't help him at all
> He made reference to the SIA DC-03 document, as did I - I have my own
copy. I
> paid for my copy.
I have the 2000 version, my company paid for mine :)
> He needs info from that document.
I agree but turning that into something a modem can produce is quite another
thing
> He is wanting to interface plant equipment to a CMS via the SIA format..
This
> is a commercial project. It may well be in competition to something we
are
> doing - remember his company is in the same city and in a similar
business.
> Both his and my companies used to be part of a larger group 12+ years ago.
> Therefore, he, or his company, can buy their own manual.
which manual? the SIA manual or one for his modem?
> > No, we are familiar with our own panels much like you are familiar with
> > yours
>
>
> In fact we are also familiar with many of the panels you use.. And
shortly
> you will be seeing ours on your shelves.. :)
As you've already seen ours on your shores :)
> > I am not an installer, I am at the central station and I have a nice
SurGard
> > MLR2 on my bench which gladly accepts SIA or about anything else I've
thrown
> > at it in the past 2 1/2 years. I have used it in the past several times
to
> > try figuring out why several panels in the Hartford CT don't like
sending
> > SIA and some from the same area do, or why panels in some Salt Lake City
> > areas send Contact ID sometimes then the next day can't, I've also
worked
> > with an ITI CS4000/5000, Radionics 6500/6600, SurGard Virtual 2000 and
> > internet monitoring, I am not who you think I am
>
>
> My apologies. You are correct - I did not envisage you in that role..
Not a problem, most here think the same thing :)
> Now, when you say SIA are you talking SIA high speed format, as per SIA
DC-03
> OR SIA tones as used for 4+2 etc. ??
SIA high speed
> > . As far as constructive things to say which is more constructive?
Telling
> > someone who may not know anything about modems that it likely can't be
done
>
>
> But there was nothing to suggest he had a modem problem.. That's NOT what
he
> was asking.
He didn't have a modem problem but he was asking if it is possible, to me
that indicated he had yet to start testing anything?
> > Again, I have stated from the beginning it DOUBT it can be done, not
that it
> > can't, you have yet to dispute that either way
>
>
> But I have.. I have already posted a couple of strings that worked.
Worked for doing what? It appears that getting to 300bps was your primary
focus with the strings you posted?
> > I'm going to go out on a limb with this but I suspect I know where the
> > problem lies, I have no doubts of your abilities yet I also suspect you
have
> > been doing it for so long it all seems easy therefore it shouldn't be a
> > problem for anyone else,
>
> You may well be correct...
Don't feel bad, I catch myself doing it all the time even with people in my
department
> > I do the same thing troubleshooting alarm systems
> > while doing tech support, I often forget the tech I'm talking to may not
> > have ever programmed the system before, heck they may have never cracked
> > open the book (if it even exists on some of the ancient stuff still out
> > there), I have to catch myself and think things like "is this something
the
> > tech will want to do or will he get totally confused by my so-called
"easy"
> > explaination that he won't do it?". I can try to get a feel of what he
is
> > capable of doing and what he isn't and make a judgement call,
>
>
> Touche' I guess we could sit down and recount numerous 'scary'
stories...
>
> Like the tech who says "The ACDC's are reading 5" - he has a digital
> voltmeter with the probe plugged into the AC/DC socket...
Or he doesn't have the voltmeter turned on in the first place :)
>
>
> > in the example
> > you and I are debating is if homerj or anyone else reading this thread
even
> > knows what the hell we are talking about, I also recall my first days of
> > owning a 300 baud Atari modem and wondering what an init string is and
why
> > should I use it (at the time (1984 I think) I finally threw that book
away
> > since to me none of it made any sense at the time, only later did I have
a
> > use for it and finally learned what SOME of the commands did, I doubt I
can
> > put together an init string like you can but this isn't something I'm
> > unfamiliar with
>
>
> Fair enough... And you will agree there's many, many combinations and
> permutations..
I agree
> > I will let this one go, if you wish to make general statements on
sending
> > SIA or Contact ID with a standard modem to a central station receiver or
by
> > making a particular modem work with a given panel feel free however I'd
> > really love to know who gets what software working with what modem, I
> > suspect the successful results will be far far less than you think they
are
>
>
> This is the crux of the confusion. We (homerj = John and I) are not, and
> never have been, talking about SIA or contact ID in the way you are. You
are
> talking SIA tones - the 1400 & 2300 Hz tones for 4+2 and CID handshaking.
We
> are talking about the SIA format sent over a standard modem link using
ASCII
> characters. We have been talking about that since his very first
message.
I assumed he was wanting to have a modem send SIA format to a central
station receiver exactly the same way an alarm panel sends
> I have NEVER made any statement about sending SIA tones or Contact ID with
a
> standard modem - except to say it cannot be done! Read back through the
> messages in this thread - the only one saying that is YOU!
???
This is homerj's statement
- homerj wrote:
- I guess the central issue here is whether a standard Hayes compatible
- modem, set to 300 Baud (either Bell or CCITT), would correctly perform
- the initial handshake and get on-line with an alarm receiver. Once the
- modem is connected and on-line the game is won. All that is needed
- from this point on is to send and receive ASCII characters in
- accordance with the SIA protocol.
-
- Seems odd that alarm receiver documentation that I've seen
- specifically refers to 300 Baud Bell and CCITT tones, and yet they
- would not connect with exactly these types of "standard" modems ?
This is what you wrote
- They will.
- The main problem is that the majority of those posting on this NG have no
- first hand knowledge of the SIA format.
Does this not indicate you infer that a modem CAN do this?
> The DTMF signal for CID data can be sent with a modem but the handshaking
and
> kiss-off tones cannot be sent or detected.
True but is it even needed? For instance the receiver will send the kiss-off
tones but a modem sending DTMF tones could care less and I would think you
could just have a small script to have it disconnect anyway
> As far as I am concerned modems are used between panels and a CMS or
whatever
> with SIA high speed ASCII format (referred to in this thread as SIA
format) or
> similar OR modem links to monitor and/or remotely configure a panel.
>
>
>
> I think we have been talking at cross purposes.. :)
I'm not so sure
m..leuck
"homerj" <andot...@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message
news:1b75d280.020...@posting.google.com...
>
> To Mark :-
>
> >>It may be possible but again I doubt it or someone would
> >>have invented it by now and I have a major use for it if
> >>such a way exists
>
> What can I say ? If you cosy up real nice to Ian in the coming days he
> may just be persuaded to share the technique we end up using to send
> simple SIA to an alarm receiver. Then you can go off and make lots of
> money from addressing that "major use" you mention.
>
> To be fair though, if you hadn't have gotten Ian's back up by saying
> that it was unlikely it could be done, he would probably have never
> got involved in this discussion. So we owe you that much at least !
My major use is just testing receivers, and in a previous message I think
Ian stated exactly what I said in the first place with this statement
"I have NEVER made any statement about sending SIA tones or Contact ID with
a
standard modem - except to say it cannot be done! Read back through the
messages in this thread - the only one saying that is YOU!" (me)
Ian T
Which has got WHAT to do with John's original question ???
You've still got SIA tones confused with the SIA format - the SIA high speed
ASCII format - which is a 100% modem-modem protocol.
Until you get rid of that mindset, there is no point continuing.
73 de Ian.
homerj
> >
> > Ian, I guess [yawn] we may as well just do this to keep the nay-sayers
> > from biting at the ankles too hard.
>
> Ya reckon that'll work ?
>
Tell you what. If someone is prepared to email me the parts of the SIA
protocol that I will need to carry out the necessary handshakes and
deliver ONE sample alarm to a receiver, then provided it works as
discussed to date, I'll post back to this NG exactly how I did it in
language that even the most (ooops - almost got carried away there),
in language that a suitably qualified person of any given nationality
could understand.
There. How's that for a gesture of International reconciliation ?
And while we're on the subject of great Kiwi inventions, don't EVER
forget that it was a Kiwi who gave you lot Symantec GHOST. The one
reliable, never fail thing standing between the regular as daylight
Microsoft Windows cock-ups, and a fully working system again, in
minutes.
Typical how these little gems get conveniently overlooked in favour of
inane and inaccurate sheep jokes !
m..leuck
"Ian T" <ia...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message news:3CCE4BE...@ihug.co.nz...
> Which has got WHAT to do with John's original question ???
>
> You've still got SIA tones confused with the SIA format - the SIA high
speed
> ASCII format - which is a 100% modem-modem protocol.
>
> Until you get rid of that mindset, there is no point continuing.
Unless this is a breakdown in definitions it was my opinion that he is
wanting to send SIA signals to a central station receiver in exactly the
same way an alarm panel sends
This is the original message
"Here's an easy one.
Is it possible to use a standard Hayes compatible modem
(300/1200/2400/56K) to send SIA Modem (Bell or CCITT) format alarm
messages to an alarm receiver ?
Application in mind is remote automation systems that need to dial out
alarms to a central monitoring station.
No problems with any character sequences that the protocol may
require. The automation system can send or receive any ASCII character
sequence(s).
Just concerned that there may be some non-standard modem frequencies
or timings involved with alarm receivers that would throw a standard
PC type modem off the case."
Did you think it was something else?
Robert L Bass
Alarminex
>ubject: Re: USE OF STANDARD MODEMS TO SEND ALARMS
>From: Ian T <ia...@ihug.co.nz>
>Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 18:17:48 +1300
>
<SNIP>
>Mark,
>Once again you demonstrate your ignorance of what the discussion is about.
>
<SNIP>
>
>Send me a modem or two and I'll send you back the appropriate init strings.
>Until then, Fuck OFF!
>
<SNIP>
Thank you Ian.
>
>
Jim
Remove the Qzapp to email
After you reach a certain age,
there's nothing left to learn the hard way.
Ian T
> "Ian T" <ia...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message news:3CCE4BE...@ihug.co.nz...
>
>
>>Which has got WHAT to do with John's original question ???
>>
>>You've still got SIA tones confused with the SIA format - the SIA high
>>
> speed
>
>>ASCII format - which is a 100% modem-modem protocol.
>>
>>Until you get rid of that mindset, there is no point continuing.
>>
>
> Unless this is a breakdown in definitions it was my opinion that he is
> wanting to send SIA signals to a central station receiver in exactly the
> same way an alarm panel sends
... and that's where you are basically wrong!!!
Few panels use the SIA High Speed format - "modem format" in John's original
message.. Most use good old 4+2 or Contact ID. Your own, and Robert's
postings pretty much verify that.
However, those formats were not part of the discussion.
It all comes down to YOUR understanding of the definition of "SIA signals" v
"SIA format". Two very different things.
>
> This is the original message
>
> "Here's an easy one.
>
> Is it possible to use a standard Hayes compatible modem
> (300/1200/2400/56K) to send SIA Modem (Bell or CCITT) format alarm
> messages to an alarm receiver ?
See that part of the sentence - ".. SIA Modem (Bell or CCITT) format .. "
That's the guts of it. NOT SIA tones. NOT 4+2 NOT CID. A modem format,
defined in SIA DC-03, which John specifically refers to in a subsequent message.
I knew that's what he was referring to in his first message. Before my first
reply I brought my copy of DC-03 on screen and checked - all the frequencies
used are 100% standard modem frequencies. DC-03 also includes details of the
initial handshaking to ascertain speed and protocol - what you refer to as
'warbles' with the likes of the FBI panel. The spec basically re-iterates
the contents of any half decent modem technical manual.. And that's why my
initial reply said it was indeed possible.
Your experience, by your own volition, is with older, 'rigid' modems. Set it
to 300 Bell103 and that's all it does. However, there are several different
tone formats at 300 baud (bell103, CCITT V21, reversed 103, reversed V21) and
any 'standard' modem *should* recognise the handshaking involved in deciding
which format to use. Nothing to do with init strings.. Entirely dependent on
the device connected to the modem.
>
> Application in mind is remote automation systems that need to dial out
> alarms to a central monitoring station.
this paragraph could apply to any format...
>
> No problems with any character sequences that the protocol may
> require. The automation system can send or receive any ASCII character
> sequence(s).
Another clue that he's not talking about the *usual* panel -> CMS comms..
"... send or receive any ASCII character sequence(s)." Immediately indicates
a level above the likes of 4+2, CID etc AND knowing what the SIA modem (high
speed ) format is, having read and used DC-03, I knew what he was talking
about...
>
> Just concerned that there may be some non-standard modem frequencies
> or timings involved with alarm receivers that would throw a standard
> PC type modem off the case."
...And this paragraph pretty much verifies it. And this is the only question
he actually raised. Not that there ARE non-standard modem frequencies and
how does one generate them, only that there MAY BE some and he is unsure.
Remember, he does not have the DC-03 spec in front of him. And I answered
him by telling him straight up that there are no non-standard frequencies
being used..
>
>
> Did you think it was something else?
Nope. I knew all along it was the format as defined in DC-03. A format
specifically designed for use over a modem-modem connection.
73 de Ian.
homerj
Have a CLOSE look at the 4th line of my original post. I've reproduced
it below so that there's absolutely no confusion :-
"(300/1200/2400/56K) to send SIA Modem (Bell or CCITT) format alarm"
Now zoom in on these two items.
1. "(300/1200/2400/56K)"
These are ... M O D E M ... baud rates
2. "SIA Modem (Bell or CCITT) format"
Ohhh, look, there is even the word MODEM. Ohhh, and look again, there
are even the qualifiers, BELL and CCITT. Hmmmm [THINKS], perhaps this
could be a person talking about MODEMS, perhaps like the SIA Modem to
Modem format. Ohhh, look at that, there are even the words "SIA Modem"
next to each other.
Ian, is this really worth all the effort !
Why doesn't someone just send me the SIA protocol to shut me up !
"m..leuck" <m.l....@attbi.com> wrote in message news:<nbvz8.27378$ao1.9066@rwcrnsc54>...
Nomen Nescio
Ian, using the modem of your choice, would you please:
1. Specify the appropriate modem setup string to enable the modem to
transmit data in SIA modem format to a SIA-enabled standard alarm receiver.
Please identify the receiver, if that makes a difference, and the baud rate
you would choose for the transmission.
2. Specify what data, if any, must be transmitted after a connection is
established and before the actual alarm message is transmitted.
3. Specify the ASCII text that must be transmitted for: "Account 1234
burglar alarm zone 1"
4. Specify the acknowledgement data (or NAK) sent by the receiver upon
receipt of the data.
The purpose is, obviously, to produce a message on the alarm receiver that
is indistinguishable from that which would be produced by an alarm panel
transmitting the same message in SIA format. And yes, I fully understand
the difference between SIA, Contact ID, and pulse formats.
Since you have the DC-03 standard and most of us do not, a specific example
would be most helpful.
- badenov
m..leuck
"Robert L Bass" <rober...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:%Jvz8.231424$3L2.21...@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
m..leuck
> >
> > Unless this is a breakdown in definitions it was my opinion that he is
> > wanting to send SIA signals to a central station receiver in exactly the
> > same way an alarm panel sends
>
>
> ... and that's where you are basically wrong!!!
I guess homerj can tell us exactly what he wants to do, I see no other
reason to send to an alarm receiver
> Few panels use the SIA High Speed format - "modem format" in John's
original
> message.. Most use good old 4+2 or Contact ID. Your own, and Robert's
> postings pretty much verify that.
I wouldn't say that, the 2nd largest alarm manufacturer in North America is
DSC which is big on it, in fact I think almost every large manufacturer
supports it, the only reason its used less than Contact ID is it hasn't been
out as long
> However, those formats were not part of the discussion.
SIA sure was
> It all comes down to YOUR understanding of the definition of "SIA signals"
v
> "SIA format". Two very different things.
I guess so, we call it sending signals in SIA format
> > This is the original message
> >
> > "Here's an easy one.
> >
> > Is it possible to use a standard Hayes compatible modem
> > (300/1200/2400/56K) to send SIA Modem (Bell or CCITT) format alarm
> > messages to an alarm receiver ?
>
>
>
> See that part of the sentence - ".. SIA Modem (Bell or CCITT) format .. "
If I comprehend what you are saying he doesn't want to actually send SIA
signals but tones to an alarm receiver? What exactly would the purpose of
that be?
> That's the guts of it. NOT SIA tones. NOT 4+2 NOT CID. A modem
format,
> defined in SIA DC-03, which John specifically refers to in a subsequent
message.
> I knew that's what he was referring to in his first message. Before my
first
> reply I brought my copy of DC-03 on screen and checked - all the
frequencies
> used are 100% standard modem frequencies. DC-03 also includes details of
the
> initial handshaking to ascertain speed and protocol - what you refer to as
> 'warbles' with the likes of the FBI panel. The spec basically
re-iterates
> the contents of any half decent modem technical manual.. And that's why
my
> initial reply said it was indeed possible.
Again, we should be asking homerj what exactly he is trying to do
> Your experience, by your own volition, is with older, 'rigid' modems. Set
it
> to 300 Bell103 and that's all it does.
What is "all it does"?
> However, there are several different
> tone formats at 300 baud (bell103, CCITT V21, reversed 103, reversed V21)
and
> any 'standard' modem *should* recognise the handshaking involved in
deciding
> which format to use. Nothing to do with init strings.. Entirely
dependent on
> the device connected to the modem.
I agree
> Application in mind is remote automation systems that need to dial out
> > alarms to a central monitoring station.
He's talking about an alarm receiver which only understands alarm signals,
the only way it will understand anything in SIA is if the device sends SIA
"signals" agreed?
> this paragraph could apply to any format...
>
>
> >
> > No problems with any character sequences that the protocol may
> > require. The automation system can send or receive any ASCII character
> > sequence(s).
>
>
> Another clue that he's not talking about the *usual* panel -> CMS comms..
> "... send or receive any ASCII character sequence(s)." Immediately
indicates
> a level above the likes of 4+2, CID etc AND knowing what the SIA modem
(high
> speed ) format is, having read and used DC-03, I knew what he was talking
> about...
He may not have an understanding of what message is sent between the panel
and receiver too and as such worded it wrong
> ...And this paragraph pretty much verifies it. And this is the only
question
> he actually raised. Not that there ARE non-standard modem frequencies
and
> how does one generate them, only that there MAY BE some and he is unsure.
> Remember, he does not have the DC-03 spec in front of him. And I
answered
> him by telling him straight up that there are no non-standard frequencies
> being used..
>
>
> >
> >
> > Did you think it was something else?
>
>
> Nope. I knew all along it was the format as defined in DC-03. A format
> specifically designed for use over a modem-modem connection.
Again however, if he is sending SIA whatever to an alarm receiver it will
only understand SIA signals, what else can it do?
m..leuck
> Mark,
>
> Have a CLOSE look at the 4th line of my original post. I've reproduced
> it below so that there's absolutely no confusion :-
>
> "(300/1200/2400/56K) to send SIA Modem (Bell or CCITT) format alarm"
>
> Now zoom in on these two items.
>
> 1. "(300/1200/2400/56K)"
>
> These are ... M O D E M ... baud rates
>
> 2. "SIA Modem (Bell or CCITT) format"
>
> Ohhh, look, there is even the word MODEM. Ohhh, and look again, there
> are even the qualifiers, BELL and CCITT. Hmmmm [THINKS], perhaps this
> could be a person talking about MODEMS, perhaps like the SIA Modem to
> Modem format. Ohhh, look at that, there are even the words "SIA Modem"
> next to each other.
>
> Ian, is this really worth all the effort !
>
> Why doesn't someone just send me the SIA protocol to shut me up !
I find the conversation engaging, what exactly are you trying to do? Are you
trying to send signals to an alarm receiver like an alarm panel does? If so
you WILL have to figure out how to make your modem send SIA "signals" which
is what I thought at the beginning is doubtfull to do
Robert L Bass
Regards,
Robert L Bass
=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
The Online DIY Alarm Store
http://www.Bass-Home.com
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota, FL 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
941-925-9747 Fax
rober...@comcast.net
=============================>
"m..leuck" <m.l....@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:QNEz8.83214$CH.1...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
Ian T
> Maybe a few specific questions would help put this endless thread to rest.
>
> Ian, using the modem of your choice, would you please:
>
> 1. Specify the appropriate modem setup string to enable the modem to
> transmit data in SIA modem format to a SIA-enabled standard alarm receiver.
> Please identify the receiver, if that makes a difference, and the baud rate
> you would choose for the transmission.
Quite possibly no special string is required except AT&F - reset factory
defaults. The initialisation of the modem is dependent on the modem and was
NOT part of the original discussion.
>
> 2. Specify what data, if any, must be transmitted after a connection is
> established and before the actual alarm message is transmitted.
See below
>
> 3. Specify the ASCII text that must be transmitted for: "Account 1234
> burglar alarm zone 1"
See below
>
> 4. Specify the acknowledgement data (or NAK) sent by the receiver upon
> receipt of the data.
See below
>
> The purpose is, obviously, to produce a message on the alarm receiver that
> is indistinguishable from that which would be produced by an alarm panel
> transmitting the same message in SIA format. And yes, I fully understand
> the difference between SIA, Contact ID, and pulse formats.
That is the intention.
>
> Since you have the DC-03 standard and most of us do not, a specific example
> would be most helpful.
Here is 'below':
NO. I paid for my copy of DC-03.
If you want to know the ins and outs of the SIA format then you, and anyone
else who wishes to know, can go to www.siaonline.org and get your own copy.
As I have already stated, I'm not a bank, and my library is shut.
Do some work for yourself.
73 de Ian.
Ian T
> "Ian T" <ia...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:3CCECC60...@ihug.co.nz...
>
>>>Unless this is a breakdown in definitions it was my opinion that he is
>>>wanting to send SIA signals to a central station receiver in exactly the
>>>same way an alarm panel sends
>>>
>>
>>... and that's where you are basically wrong!!!
>>
>
> I guess homerj can tell us exactly what he wants to do, I see no other
> reason to send to an alarm receiver
Down this way CMS are used for a damn site more than monitoring burglar alarms.
They monitor medical alarms.
They monitor plant machinery - overheating.. Freezer starting to thaw etc etc.
In fact our panels are used in many plant monitoring applications simply
because we have not dictated that it MUST send CID 130 for an activation or
CID 137 for a tamper - the user can send whatever they wish..
This is why he is looking at another form of interface between remote
automation equipment and a CMS.
We tend to think 'outside the square' ... Confuses the hell out of some
CMS's but what the heck :)
>
>
>>Few panels use the SIA High Speed format - "modem format" in John's
>>
> original
>
>>message.. Most use good old 4+2 or Contact ID. Your own, and Robert's
>>postings pretty much verify that.
>>
>
> I wouldn't say that, the 2nd largest alarm manufacturer in North America is
> DSC which is big on it, in fact I think almost every large manufacturer
> supports it, the only reason its used less than Contact ID is it hasn't been
> out as long
DSC support it in a couple of panels only. Many of the 'large' manufacturers
do not support it at all. Or, if they do it's an 'add on'.
I'm not about to enter into a 'who does or who doesn't' discussion. You are
entirely correct in that CID has been around a lot longer, is stable, works
well, and does not require a modem with all the possible attendant hassles, at
each end.
>
>
>>However, those formats were not part of the discussion.
>>
>
> SIA sure was
NOPE SIA format, as in the high speed ASCII modem-modem format was. NOTHING
ELSE!!! Except when YOU introduced it.
>
>
>>It all comes down to YOUR understanding of the definition of "SIA signals"
>>
> v
>
>>"SIA format". Two very different things.
>>
>
> I guess so, we call it sending signals in SIA format
Perhaps you should read the SIA specs and see what THEY call it. I have been
using their definitions.
>
>
>>>This is the original message
>>>
>>>"Here's an easy one.
>>>
>>>Is it possible to use a standard Hayes compatible modem
>>>(300/1200/2400/56K) to send SIA Modem (Bell or CCITT) format alarm
>>>messages to an alarm receiver ?
>>>
>>
>>
>>See that part of the sentence - ".. SIA Modem (Bell or CCITT) format .. "
>>
>
> If I comprehend what you are saying he doesn't want to actually send SIA
> signals but tones to an alarm receiver? What exactly would the purpose of
> that be?
NO. he wants to connect a modem, any modem - it doesn't matter - to some
remote automation equipment and use that to send/receive to a CMS that also
has a modem and is using the SIA format.
To use the SIA format the CMS MUST HAVE A MODEM!!! It is a modem-modem
protocol. As long as the two modems speak the same modem talk and the
messages are per DC-03, it WILL WORK !!!!
He has said nothing about sending tones anywhere.
I still get the impression that you have never seen DC-03 and hence have
absolutely no idea what this SIA format is all about.
>
>
>>That's the guts of it. NOT SIA tones. NOT 4+2 NOT CID. A modem
>>
> format,
>
>>defined in SIA DC-03, which John specifically refers to in a subsequent
>>
> message.
>
>>I knew that's what he was referring to in his first message. Before my
>>
> first
>
>>reply I brought my copy of DC-03 on screen and checked - all the
>>
> frequencies
>
>>used are 100% standard modem frequencies. DC-03 also includes details of
>>
> the
>
>>initial handshaking to ascertain speed and protocol - what you refer to as
>>'warbles' with the likes of the FBI panel. The spec basically
>>
> re-iterates
>
>>the contents of any half decent modem technical manual.. And that's why
>>
> my
>
>>initial reply said it was indeed possible.
>>
>
> Again, we should be asking homerj what exactly he is trying to do
He told us in his very first message what he is trying to do. He is intending
to interface some remote automation equipment to a CMS using the SIA format -
the format that uses a modem at each end. The format that is fully described
in DC-03.
Which bit of that did you have trouble understanding from his original message ?
>
>
>>Your experience, by your own volition, is with older, 'rigid' modems. Set
>>
> it
>
>>to 300 Bell103 and that's all it does.
>>
>
> What is "all it does"?
It runs at 300baud. It can't change speeds or protocols if it is connected to
some other device that supports, say CCITT V21 for instance...
You have told it to run at 300baud, Bell103. That's all it can do.
>
>
>>However, there are several different
>>tone formats at 300 baud (bell103, CCITT V21, reversed 103, reversed V21)
>>
> and
>
>>any 'standard' modem *should* recognise the handshaking involved in
>>
> deciding
>
>>which format to use. Nothing to do with init strings.. Entirely
>>
> dependent on
>
>>the device connected to the modem.
>>
>
> I agree
>
> > Application in mind is remote automation systems that need to dial out
>
>>>alarms to a central monitoring station.
>>>
>
> He's talking about an alarm receiver which only understands alarm signals,
> the only way it will understand anything in SIA is if the device sends SIA
> "signals" agreed?
No he is NOT!!!
He is talking about a CMS that has the capability to receive/send the SIA
format - the SIA modem-modem ASCII format as defined in DC-03
Therefore, the alarm receiver MUST be a bit more intelligent than something
that only understands alarm signals. In fact, at the CMS end there must be a
MODEM NOT an alarm receiver as you know them.
Mark,
It is now VERY obvious you have no idea what the SIA format is. Your
paragraph above makes that very clear. You are still confusing SIA 'signals'
- the tones emitted by or to alarms - 1400 and 2300 Hz - with the SIA format
we are discussing.
PLEASE, have a look at DC-03 then you might actually understand what we are
talking about. John (homerj to you) and I KNOW what we are talking about.
We have NEVER been confused about the subject at all.
>
>
>>this paragraph could apply to any format...
>>
>>
>>
>>>No problems with any character sequences that the protocol may
>>>require. The automation system can send or receive any ASCII character
>>>sequence(s).
>>>
>>
>>Another clue that he's not talking about the *usual* panel -> CMS comms..
>>"... send or receive any ASCII character sequence(s)." Immediately
>>
> indicates
>
>>a level above the likes of 4+2, CID etc AND knowing what the SIA modem
>>
> (high
>
>>speed ) format is, having read and used DC-03, I knew what he was talking
>>about...
>>
>
> He may not have an understanding of what message is sent between the panel
> and receiver too and as such worded it wrong
But he DOES. Subsequent messages show this. I also know the business John is
in so I KNOW he did not word it wrong. He also makes specific reference to
DC-03 in a subsequent message...
>
>
>>...And this paragraph pretty much verifies it. And this is the only
>>
> question
>
>>he actually raised. Not that there ARE non-standard modem frequencies
>>
> and
>
>>how does one generate them, only that there MAY BE some and he is unsure.
>>Remember, he does not have the DC-03 spec in front of him. And I
>>
> answered
>
>>him by telling him straight up that there are no non-standard frequencies
>>being used..
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Did you think it was something else?
>>>
>>
>>Nope. I knew all along it was the format as defined in DC-03. A format
>>specifically designed for use over a modem-modem connection.
>>
>
> Again however, if he is sending SIA whatever to an alarm receiver it will
> only understand SIA signals, what else can it do?
FOR FUCKS SAKE MARK !!!
He is NOT intending to communicate with a poxy alarm receiver. He will not
be sending SIA signals, as you understand them.
READ WHAT HE WROTE !!! DON'T READ ANYTHING ELSE INTO WHAT HE WROTE!!!
He said "SIA format". This is defined in DC-03. The CMS MUST have a modem
to utilise SIA format.
He specifically says he will also have to find a local CMS that supports SIA
format. Meaning one that has the necessary modem AND can support the SIA
format. Again, NOT an alarm receiver - all CMS's have them.
How many more clues does he have to leave before you wake up to the fact he is
NOT talking about tones between a panel and an alarm receiver ???
GET DC-03 AND READ IT !!!
Until then, we are going around in circles. To save a lot of shagging about,
John and I have shifted to email - why the fuck should we keep ignorant pricks
like you appraised of what we are doing!! You refuse to lift your head out of
the sand - you have a single mindset and until that changes we are wasting our
time.
While John works for an opposition company (partly..) that will not stop me
keeping in touch with hime. He now has a copy of DC-03.. And, it happens he
actually lives no more than about 5km from me so we may well get together for
that beer shortly and discuss his project.
I'm of two minds whether we should bother posting any results back here..
Why make life easy for those that are to thick and lazy to help themselves!
This thread is dead !
73 de Ian.
Ian T
> "homerj" <andot...@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:1b75d280.02043...@posting.google.com...
>
>>Mark,
>>
>>Have a CLOSE look at the 4th line of my original post. I've reproduced
>>it below so that there's absolutely no confusion :-
>>
>>"(300/1200/2400/56K) to send SIA Modem (Bell or CCITT) format alarm"
>>
>>Now zoom in on these two items.
>>
>>1. "(300/1200/2400/56K)"
>>
>>These are ... M O D E M ... baud rates
>>
>>2. "SIA Modem (Bell or CCITT) format"
>>
>>Ohhh, look, there is even the word MODEM. Ohhh, and look again, there
>>are even the qualifiers, BELL and CCITT. Hmmmm [THINKS], perhaps this
>>could be a person talking about MODEMS, perhaps like the SIA Modem to
>>Modem format. Ohhh, look at that, there are even the words "SIA Modem"
>>next to each other.
>>
>>Ian, is this really worth all the effort !
I think Mark answers it himself about eight line feeds below;
NO. Unfortunately he has no idea about the SIA format, and seems hell bent on
not actually finding out what it is.
Ian T
> Maybe a few specific questions would help put this endless thread to rest.
>
> Ian, using the modem of your choice, would you please:
>
> 1. Specify the appropriate modem setup string to enable the modem to
> transmit data in SIA modem format to a SIA-enabled standard alarm receiver.
> Please identify the receiver, if that makes a difference, and the baud rate
> you would choose for the transmission.
Missed a vital bit here...
There is no way the SIA modem format can be received by a "standard alarm
receiver". The CMS would need a modem at their end as well - most likely
directly connected to a computer of some type.. OR a dedicated SIA format
receiver. Definitely not a receiver normally used for CID or 4+2 etc.
But connecting to a standard alarm receiver was never the intention - read the
original message.
73 de Ian.
Robert L Bass
>
> Badenov wrote:
>>
>> Since you have the DC-03 standard and most of us do not, a specific
>> example would be most helpful.
>
>
> If you want to know the ins and outs of the SIA format then you, and
> anyone else who wishes to know, can go to www.siaonline.org and
> get your own copy.
>
> As I have already stated, I'm not a bank, and my library is shut.
>
> Do some work for yourself.
Heh, heh, heh. :^)
Robert L Bass
On the DSC web site there is information about several alarm receivers they
sell. One interesting new toy is their PC-LC2 which is a PC-based receiver.
Obviously that's not a "standard" receiver. But I thought you and some of
the others might find it interesting. Here's a little snippet from their
online documentation:
Communication Formats .
. 3-1, 4-1, 4-2 formats with or without checksum 10, 14, 20 or 40 baud
. 4-1, 4-2, 4-3, and 4-3 with checksum in DTMF formats
. Ademco Contact ID format
. SIA formats: 110 and 300 baud, tonal and data acknowledge, with and
without separators
. Ademco DTMF 4-1 and 4-2 Express with checksum formats
. 3-2, 4-1 extended, 4-2 extended, with baud rates from 10 to 40
Also, their MLR-2000 docuimentation receiver lists scads of formats the unit
will handle, including SIA levels 1, 2, 3, SIA8 and 20. Note that the docs
refer to the receiver in the future tense.
They have several others but I didn't bother reading all the specs.
Osborne-Hoffman's OH-2000 model only handles SIA1 and SIA2.
Reference: http://www.osborne-hoffman.com/oh2000.html
I have not been following recent developments from SIA -- too busy hawking
alarms to DIY'rs... :^) If you're referring to something beyond SIA20, I'm
in the dark on it.
BTW, I have the full SIA protocols for Contact ID and 4/2, but nothing on
the SIA high speed format itself. The work I'm currently doing for a fire
alarm manufacturer doesn't require it since the new panel will only talk 4/2
and Contact ID (their decision, not my idea).
Regards,
Robert L Bass
=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
The Online DIY Alarm Store
http://www.Bass-Home.com
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota, FL 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
941-925-9747 Fax
rober...@comcast.net
=============================>
homerj
of the SIA modem protocol that I need to know about.
Therefore, I will shut up and exit from this particular topic (as
promised in my last post) and commence work with my trusty Hayes modem
(that has been in virtual retirement since DSL got plugged into my
house). And on the subject of DSL/TCP-IP make sure you visit the
following page ...
http://www.radionicsinc.com/communications/communications.asp
... for the "primative beginnings" of the future of alarms reporting.
The writing is on the wall for Contact ID, even SIA fast modem.
Upskill now. Learn what an IP address is, what a router does, and what
a subnet mask is used for. Perhaps even what XML is all about. You
have been warned !
Many thanks to all those who contributed to this thread. Even those
who in vain attempted to poke fun at Kiwis. A largely FUTILE exercise.
Although I have now noticed that there are a lot of sheep wandering
around down here. And lots of American tourists having their pictures
taken with them. Hmmmmm. Now what does that tell me ...
I'll report back in a few weeks on how I got on. And whether I'm still
on speaking terms with the techs at our local alarm monitoring
companies.
Cheers, John.
"m..leuck" <m.l....@attbi.com> wrote in message news:<N6Fz8.454$xv1...@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>...
Alarminex
>Subject: Re: USE OF STANDARD MODEMS TO SEND ALARMS
>From: Ian T <ia...@ihug.co.nz>
>Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 13:47:35 +1300
>
<Snip>
Heh heh heh heh!
This is just about the funniest thing I've read in a long time.
Thanks Ian
m..leuck
"Ian T" <ia...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message news:3CCF400...@ihug.co.nz...
Ian, this is the original message
"Here's an easy one.
Is it possible to use a standard Hayes compatible modem
(300/1200/2400/56K) to send SIA Modem (Bell or CCITT) format alarm
messages to an alarm receiver ?
Application in mind is remote automation systems that need to dial out
alarms to a central monitoring station."
He IS trying to go to a standard alarm receiver
m..leuck
> What do mean when you say "standard" in reference to an alarm receiver,
Ian?
> On the DSC web site there is information about several alarm receivers
they
> sell. One interesting new toy is their PC-LC2 which is a PC-based
receiver.
> Obviously that's not a "standard" receiver. But I thought you and some of
> the others might find it interesting. Here's a little snippet from their
> online documentation:
That is a neat little card too, perfect for local monitoring and inexpensive
($1,000)
> Communication Formats .
> . 3-1, 4-1, 4-2 formats with or without checksum 10, 14, 20 or 40 baud
> . 4-1, 4-2, 4-3, and 4-3 with checksum in DTMF formats
> . Ademco Contact ID format
> . SIA formats: 110 and 300 baud, tonal and data acknowledge, with and
> without separators
> . Ademco DTMF 4-1 and 4-2 Express with checksum formats
> . 3-2, 4-1 extended, 4-2 extended, with baud rates from 10 to 40
You can pretty much use the same specs on their entire line although I'm
surprised it doesn't mention ITI format which the MLR-2 and MLR-2000 can do,
SurGard is set to come out with a mini version of the 2000, get ready to
throw all the old stuff away
> Also, their MLR-2000 docuimentation receiver lists scads of formats the
unit
> will handle, including SIA levels 1, 2, 3, SIA8 and 20. Note that the
docs
> refer to the receiver in the future tense.
Thats typical, they haven't updated the docs on that thing since it first
came out 3 years ago, incredible receiver tho
> They have several others but I didn't bother reading all the specs.
>
> Osborne-Hoffman's OH-2000 model only handles SIA1 and SIA2.
> Reference: http://www.osborne-hoffman.com/oh2000.html
>
> I have not been following recent developments from SIA -- too busy hawking
> alarms to DIY'rs... :^) If you're referring to something beyond SIA20,
I'm
> in the dark on it.
>
> BTW, I have the full SIA protocols for Contact ID and 4/2, but nothing on
> the SIA high speed format itself. The work I'm currently doing for a fire
> alarm manufacturer doesn't require it since the new panel will only talk
4/2
> and Contact ID (their decision, not my idea).
Last I looked your Contact ID listing was apparently out of a DSC manual,
instead of what it actually sends it listed what you programmed into the
panel, I assume you've changed this in the last few months?
Robert L Bass
Regarding the upskill comments: Most here probably know what an IP address
is and have a vague idea about routers. A few (mainly cable modem and DSL
users) have had occasion to type in a subnet mask or three. A very limited
number of us have a clue about XML, but that's not surprising. Alarm
installers don't currently need to know how to read, much less write, a
schema. In fact, until a couple of years ago I didn't know much at all
about XML. Now I'm running Turbo XML 2.2 to edit schemas and integrate our
latest VB app with a Help system I'm finishing up.
You live and you learn, eh?
As to the sheep comments, here's an old one from this side of the ball:
Q. Why do Alabamans use Velcro?
A. Sheep can hear a zipper at 50 yards.
Regards,
Robert L Bass
=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
The Online DIY Alarm Store
http://www.Bass-Home.com
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota, FL 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
941-925-9747 Fax
rober...@comcast.net
=============================>
"homerj" <andot...@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message
news:1b75d280.02043...@posting.google.com...
Ian T
He is trying to connect to an alarm receiver THAT USES/RECOGNISES SIA MODEM
FORMAT.
I knew what he meant. I suspect others familiar with the SIA modem format also
knew what he meant - it's unfortunate that he called it 'an alarm receiver'.
...And there's no mention of the word 'standard' there at all.
It definitely isn't an alarm receiver in the context you understand. The rest
of that paragraph, the rest of his first message, and his subsequent messages
made that very obvious to those who know what the SIA format is. Read the
ENTIRE sentence.. Read the ENTIRE message.
I had hoped John's recent posting, where he goes to some length to break the
paragraph into easily digestible portions, would have clarified this for you.
Apparently not.
John, You used too many big words.
Mark, I HOPE you now understand what we have been talking about. If not, then
I give up...
Definitely a dead thread.. But fun :)
73 de Ian.
Robert L Bass
which is not copyright protected, I'll post a new page.
Regards,
Robert L Bass
=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
The Online DIY Alarm Store
http://www.Bass-Home.com
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota, FL 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
941-925-9747 Fax
rober...@comcast.net
=============================>
Robert L Bass
seeking and is now on his way with his project.
I think it's safe to say that:
1) Ian believes modems can do SIA high speed;
2) Mark doubts it can be done;
3) Ian & Mark aren't coming to my next barbeque (sniff, sniff);
4) Robert believes that it can be done but doesn't have the time to try;
5) I just wanted this thing to have 5 points of agreement.
How about giving this thread a rest so we can get back to bickering about
DIY'rs using software or something else that hasn't been beaten into
oblivion. :)
Regards,
Robert L Bass
=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
The Online DIY Alarm Store
http://www.Bass-Home.com
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota, FL 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
941-925-9747 Fax
rober...@comcast.net
=============================>
"Ian T" <ia...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
news:3CCF7AB5...@ihug.co.nz...
m..leuck
fuck off too! :)
"Alarminex" <alar...@aol.comQzapp> wrote in message
news:20020501001315...@mb-cg.aol.com...
m..leuck
> of the SIA modem protocol that I need to know about.
>
> Therefore, I will shut up and exit from this particular topic (as
> promised in my last post) and commence work with my trusty Hayes modem
> (that has been in virtual retirement since DSL got plugged into my
> house).
Before you end it can you please tell us all what specifically you are
intending to connect to at the central station? Is it a standard computer
with another Hayes modem or is it an alarm receiver that handles panel alarm
signals, if it is an alarm receiver what is the brand/model type? and does
it JUST handle alarm system reporting
And on the subject of DSL/TCP-IP make sure you visit the
> following page ...
>
> http://www.radionicsinc.com/communications/communications.asp
>
> ... for the "primative beginnings" of the future of alarms reporting.
> The writing is on the wall for Contact ID, even SIA fast modem.
Oddly enough it isn't, Ademco's internet monitoring sends Contact ID from
the receiving device at the CMS to automation
> Upskill now. Learn what an IP address is, what a router does, and what
> a subnet mask is used for. Perhaps even what XML is all about. You
> have been warned !
I setup the Radionics solution and indeed had to deal with all that (except
XML), the Ademco solution sounds far better by using DHCP, no need for
subnet masks and programming an ip address
Bill McDonald
> And while we're on the subject of great Kiwi inventions, don't EVER
> forget that it was a Kiwi who gave you lot Symantec GHOST. The one
> reliable, never fail thing standing between the regular as daylight
> Microsoft Windows cock-ups, and a fully working system again, in
> minutes.
>
> Typical how these little gems get conveniently overlooked in favour of
> inane and inaccurate sheep jokes !
greetings, hope you fulla's don't mind another kiwi joining in.
Can I point out that Murray Haszard, the man behind GHOST, previously
developed a database engine called B32.
Monitoring Automation Systems used this for their original CMS product,
also called B32, that some of you are probably still using.
homerj
1. See my separate email sent to you today. Enjoy !!
2. I'll post the results of all this back to the NG in a few weeks.
Cheers, John.
"m..leuck" <m.l....@attbi.com> wrote in message news:<VfLz8.1968$xv1...@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>...
Graeme McKenzie
I have a Practical Peripheral 1200 at the office - does Caddx, C&K, Napco,
EDM, Concept, Esprit, Digiplex, Micron, Elite and DSC. Plus a few more that
i have probably forgotten. The 56k internals in all the office computers
all can do Concept, Caddx, Tecom, Elite. At home, my Bitblitzer does almost
everything except C&K, and my 56k internals (4 computers at home) all can do
the modern stuff. The day I don't have to rely on an old external modem
will be great - must cram my brain with modem string information - when it's
all gone to plan I will report back. When it fucks up, I might stay quiet.
Graeme McKenzie
"m..leuck" <m.l....@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:OIaz8.88721$HH5....@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
> I currently use 3 with a switchbox, a Hayes 2400 Optima #4007AM (DSC,
ITI,
> Moose), a Hayes 1200 07-00038 (Ademco, FBI, Napco, AT&T) and a StarComm
> (C&K, Radionics, Visonic), I also have a Practical Peripheral 1200 for no
> particular reason and a DMP modem which I've used twice in 2 years
>
> I would like to see what you've done if possible
>
> > If you do half the downloading I do (and I am sure you probably do 100
> times
> > the amount I do), you would benefit from using less modems as well.
>
> It varies, sometimes I don't download anything sometimes its 50 a day,
> lately I've been killing Radionics 2112's with the StarComm, that modem
has
> taken anything I've fed it except DSC and AT&T
>
> > At
> > least we should try to get them working. Ian says it can be done - I
have
> > no reason to doubt him - I have used the panels he produces and know
that
> he
> > can produce the goods.
>
> It isn't a question of doubting him, my problem is when he states its easy
> to do then cannot produce results because he doesn't have that modem to
work
> with, that doesn't help the original poster at all who likely doesn't know
> anything about init strings or how they are used (blame Windows for that
> part)
>
> > Now all I need to do is learn more about running modems at low speeds -
> > almost all the information on the net about modems is to get them
running
> > faster....
>
> If you know anything about modem telecommunications its easy! just ask Ian
> :)
>
>
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/02
homerj
> Oddly enough it isn't, Ademco's internet monitoring sends Contact ID from
> the receiving device at the CMS to automation
>
> > Upskill now. Learn what an IP address is, what a router does, and what
> > a subnet mask is used for. Perhaps even what XML is all about. You
> > have been warned !
>
> I setup the Radionics solution and indeed had to deal with all that (except
> XML), the Ademco solution sounds far better by using DHCP, no need for
> subnet masks and programming an ip address
GOOD GOD MARK !! - Don't get Ian and me started on this topic or
you'll never hear the end of it !!
This will have more people telling each other they're fuckwits than we
have sheep in NZ. Wasn't the SIA modem drama enough for you. Have you
learnt nothing from all of this !!
Ian, over to you mate. I'm out of here for a rest. I don't think I can
handle much more of this. I've never laughed so hard some nights if
you know what I mean.
Anyway, well done all. At least we've proved that a sense of humour
goes a long way in this industry !
Cheers, John.
homerj
Didn't see this post until just now. Was only monitoring the other
thread that started several days back.
Ian mate. WARNING !! Possible intelligent life ahead.
Yes, what you've read into the alarm receiver specs is what I've
always assumed as well. The one you refer to below indicates that the
receiver is smart enough to work out or attempt to initiate things
like ContactID or SIA Modem on the same incoming phone line.
Not being an expert on this, however, I'll bow out now and leave it to
anyone who knows if such a single line arrangement is possible.
This doesn't affect what I am trying to achieve, but it does clear up
whether this type of receiver (that I would term as standard) can
indeed accept SIA Modem format directly. i.e. pretends to act like a
(say Bell 103) modem as and when required.
John.
"Robert L Bass" <rober...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<AMHz8.4174$v7.4...@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...
Ian T
> The gentleman has indicated that he has received the information he was
> seeking and is now on his way with his project.
Looks like it...
>
> I think it's safe to say that:
> 1) Ian believes modems can do SIA high speed;
> 2) Mark doubts it can be done;
> 3) Ian & Mark aren't coming to my next barbeque (sniff, sniff);
Please... Please with sugar on ...
> 4) Robert believes that it can be done but doesn't have the time to try;
> 5) I just wanted this thing to have 5 points of agreement.
Fair enough
> How about giving this thread a rest so we can get back to bickering about
> DIY'rs using software or something else that hasn't been beaten into
> oblivion. :)
OK.
Now, I have a RayStar 590 GPS (Raytheon/JRC) with a fritzed power supply. And
I mean *fritzed* as in tracks vapourised...
Anyone know where I can get a circuit of this beast ?? The NZ agents have
been a tad unhelpful.. Quite happy to part with a couple of pieces of gold,
or even my second born for the genuine cct. :)
Worth a go :)
73 de Ian.
Robert L Bass
"Ian T" <ia...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
news:3CCFE044...@ihug.co.nz...
Mike Simpson
> Now, I have a RayStar 590 GPS (Raytheon/JRC) with a fritzed power supply.
And
> I mean *fritzed* as in tracks vapourised...
> Anyone know where I can get a circuit of this beast ?? The NZ agents have
> been a tad unhelpful.. Quite happy to part with a couple of pieces of
gold,
> or even my second born for the genuine cct. :)
>
> Worth a go :)
>
>
> 73 de Ian.
>
Is this of any help... item 21??
http://www.marine-electronics.hr/surplus/mec.htm
Mike
VSS DOUG
the "when in Rome " thing just a tad too seriously.
Doug L
John wrote
Nomen Nescio
>
>If you want to know the ins and outs of the SIA format then you, and anyone
>else who wishes to know, can go to www.siaonline.org and get your own copy.
>
>As I have already stated, I'm not a bank, and my library is shut.
>
>Do some work for yourself.
One sample message isn't going to kill you, and it would conclusively
demonstrate whether it is possible to do what homerj originally requested.
After that, I quite agree: those who need the info should buy their own
copy of the standard. Those of us who are not manufacturers are not likely
to spend $100 for a copy just to satisfy our curiosity. Or do you get a
commision from SIA for each standard sold? :-)
You also said:
>There is no way the SIA modem format can be received by a "standard alarm
>receiver". The CMS would need a modem at their end as well - most likely
>directly connected to a computer of some type.. OR a dedicated SIA format
>receiver. Definitely not a receiver normally used for CID or 4+2 etc.
While it is true that a modem is required to receive modem formats (a
truism), surely you must realize that it is trivial to build the modem into
the receiver line card. This has been done for many years, though perhaps
not in your corner of the world. Therefore, no separate modem is required,
no direct modem connection to a computer is required, and it is quite
possible to receive SIA modem format on a standard alarm receiver. As Bill
Clinton might say, "It depends on what you mean by 'standard.'"
- badenov