Wiring Pella Casement windows
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AcKBaR[KAC]
Pella Pro-Line Casement Windows. The windows are aluminum clad. The
windows are extremely expensive and I am somewhat reluctant to drill
into the clading before determining the optimal contact for this type
of windows. Can anyone who has installed contacts on these style of
windows tell me which brand and contact they have had the best luck
with?
Thanks,
Barry
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Robert L Bass
molding that hides the operating levers when the window is closed, this method
should work:
Before the moldings are installed, make a tick mark with a pencil on the bottom
of the frame where the inside edge of the sash stops. Open the window and drill
a 1/4" hole straight down into the framing about 3/4" to 1" in from the pencil
mark. Close the window and install a Sentrol 1035 (or similar competing brand)
magnet on the sash about 1/4" above the bottom edge so it will be hidden by the
wood molding when the window is closed. Shove the two leads from the 1035 into
the hole. Mount the 1035 sensor to the lower frame so it is parallel and within
1/4" or so away from the magnet. Solder and tape (or use shrink tubing) the
leads to the long cable leading back to the control panel. Leave about 12-16"
of spare wire in a loose coil inside the wall in case you ever have to replace
the sensor (a close encounter with lightning can sometimes destroy magnetic
alarm sensors).
This method has the advantage that the sash is not drilled, so the window maker
won't try to get out of warranty responsibilities. Also, when the window is
closed the sensor and magnet are completely hidden from view. When the window
is open, only the magnet is visible. They are quite small and (IMO)
unobtrusive. Another advantage here is that you are drilling inside the
house -- not in the window sill area. This means there is no possibility of
water leaking into the wall cavity. The weather seal of the sash is also
undisturbed.
The disadvantage to this method is that the magnet is visible when the sash is
open. If that is going to be a bother, you might want to consider using one of
the newer, very small rare earth magnets. These are tiny, powerful magnets.
Personally, I prefer the standard ones for this app, but it's something to
consider.
Another method which some installer like is to use a roller-plunger type sensor,
such as the Sentrol 3005 (or competing brand) switch. This type of sensor has a
reed switch and magnet all in one housing. When the sash closes it pushes the
roller which forces the magnet to slide into proximity to the sensor. The
advantage is it also requires no drilling of the sash. The disadvantage is that
this type of switch is sometimes easier to compromise. Also, because it
involves moving parts, there is the possibility that it may become gummed up
with leaves and insect debris or ice in winter. If that happens the switch
might fail to operate during a break-in. I don't know of any cases where that
has actually happened, but it is possible.
I have detailed specifications on these sensors and a few thousand (really)
others in my web site in case you want to learn more.
Regards,
Robert L Bass
=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
The Online DIY Alarm Store
http://www.Bass-Home.com
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota, FL 34233
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
941-925-9747 voice (Florida)
941-926-9857 fax
Rober...@home.com
=============================>
AcKBaR[KAC] wrote:
:
: I am in the process of wiring a new home which has a large number of
Jack Stevens
Those are nice windows. You can really screw them up if you don't pay
attention to where you drill. I like to use 3/8 inch press-fit contacts in
the top frame about four inches in from the strike side. Use a speed bore
to start the hole; it allows a neat recess for the contact. You can do
about a dozen windows before the aluminum starts to dull the bit.
Drill straight up about an inch; watch out you don't go through to the
outside. Now, switch to a 1/4 inch by 2 foot bit, and angle it so you're
drilling slightly inward. This gives you the angle you need to keep the
wire inside the wall without having to jam the contact into an angled hole.
There is room on top of the window for a 1/4 inch magnet; just silicone it
to the top of the window so that one end lines up with the contact when the
window is closed. Take your time. Start in the garage and practice on
those. Good luck!
--
Jack Stevens
alarman2000.nospam.yahoo.com
remove nospam. to reply
"AcKBaR[KAC]" <blib...@nospam.adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:hnm2pt82sv0jn2gos...@4ax.com...
AcKBaR[KAC]
exactly what I needed.
Regards,
Robert L Bass
Regards,
Robert L Bass
=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
The Online DIY Alarm Store
http://www.Bass-Home.com
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota, FL 34233
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
941-925-9747 voice (Florida)
941-926-9857 fax
Rober...@home.com
=============================>
"AcKBaR[KAC]" <blib...@nospam.adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:mf94pt85q23phsisk...@4ax.com...
: Thanks to Robert and Jack for the feedback. The suggestions were
Alarminex
<blib...@nospam.adelphia.net> writes:
>Subject: Re: Wiring Pella Casement windows
>From: "AcKBaR[KAC]" <blib...@nospam.adelphia.net>
>Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 08:29:36 -0400
>
>Thanks to Robert and Jack for the feedback. The suggestions were
>exactly what I needed.
>
>Regards,
>Barry
>
Did you ever think to question the warranty on the windows? With all of their
*** feedback *** no one has thought to mention that.
In my experience, Pella has a relatively uncooperative and unforgiving policy
concerning modifications to their windows. After an incident a long time ago, I
always get a release from the client before drilling, attaching or doing ** any
** kind of work, and particularly on Pella. They don't give an inch if there
has been any work done by someone else other then their authorized dealers.
They turn a blind eye towards any end user who wants to install alarm sensors
on their doors or windows if a warranty issue arises.
Also, in my opinion, they make the least secure and poorest designed sliding
glass door with regard to security. Again, in my experience, when ever a
sliding glass door has been sucessfully breached, it's more often then not, a
Pella. With no obvious concern for the security of their doors, they have
designed them with the sliding track door on the ** out side ** of the house.
All it takes is a screw driver under the door, to lift it out to the track. If
the door does not have the special locks that can only be installed by a Pella
dealer, the door comes off in about 2 seconds. If it has the special lock, the
only inconvenience is the intruder has to take another 30 seconds to break it
off. If the homeowner decides to put their own lock on or have a generic lock
put on by another contractor or locksmith, the warranty on the door is void.
And, not that they should design the door for alarm installation, just as a
matter of course, their door and window design is not condusive to making an
"easy" concealed switch installation.
It bears saying however, that I've never heard of anyone not being satisfied
with their windows and doors based on quality and their intended uses.
Jim
Remove the Qzapp to email
AcKBaR[KAC]
so long as the sash is not tampered with, the warranty is ok, hence
both of the suggested solutions appear viable. The most obvious point
of failure on the window is the sealed glass on the sash. Should the
sash fail, Pella replaces the entire sash. In the event that the sash
has been drilled, the warranty is in fact void. I will take your word
for the issues around the sliders. Fortunately, this house has no
sliders, only a large number of the triple latching french doors.
Barry
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Alarminex
<blib...@nospam.adelphia.net> writes:
>Subject: Re: Wiring Pella Casement windows
>From: "AcKBaR[KAC]" <blib...@nospam.adelphia.net>
>Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 16:09:55 -0400
>
>Again, thanks for the additional feedback. My understanding is that
>so long as the sash is not tampered with, the warranty is ok, hence
>both of the suggested solutions appear viable. The most obvious point
>of failure on the window is the sealed glass on the sash. Should the
>sash fail, Pella replaces the entire sash. In the event that the sash
>has been drilled, the warranty is in fact void. I will take your word
>for the issues around the sliders. Fortunately, this house has no
>sliders, only a large number of the triple latching french doors.
>
>Barry
I was under the impression, from my past experience, that if *any*
modification, to *any* part of the window, was performed by anyone other then a
Pella dealer, the warranty was void. I mention this because of your use of the
words "your understanding". If the warranty is of great importance to you, it
might be wise to get something in writing rather then depend on the whim of a
local dealer, a couple of years from now, in determining what is warranteed and
what is not.
*** My experience had to do with putting the push pin, track lock on a sliding
glass door, for one of my customers. It was in no way near the glass. A year
later the customer had a problem with the seal in the glass and they wouldn't
honor the warranty because I had put the lock on the door. Even though they
agreed that the lock had nothing to do with the failure of the glass seal.
Fortunately my customer didn't look at it as being my fault but it still was an
awkward situation.
Just fair warning. Your milage may vary.
barry
department specifically about this issue. I asked the following:
1. Does drilling a small hole in the casing, not the sash, obviate the
warranty on the glass seal.
2. If so, why since it does not impact the structural integrity of the
sash.
2. If so, how do they expect anyone who uses their windows to have
alarm contacts installed (my hope is they don't suggest wireless).
I will post their response.
Barry
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Mike Simpson
Limitations
Unless modified by the EnduraBrass ® hardware finish warranty, the seacoast exterior
paint finish warranty, or the EnduraCladT Plus exterior paint finish warranty, this
warranty does not cover: non-Pella products; products that have not been paid for in
full; problems caused by improper storage, handling, installation, finishing, use,
modification, or maintenance; Acts of God; accident........
Mike Simpson
"Alarminex" <alar...@aol.comQzapp> wrote in message
news:20010903144658...@nso-cg.aol.com...
Robert L Bass
1. Drilling a hole in the framing as I suggested earlier will in no way affect
the warranty because the hole does not affect the window seal or the sash at
all.
2. Don't drill the sash at all. That will keep Pella happy.
3. Generally speaking, window manufacturers don't care about your security
needs.
--
Regards,
Robert L Bass
=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
The Online DIY Alarm Store
http://www.Bass-Home.com
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota, FL 34233
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
941-925-9747 voice (Florida)
941-926-9857 fax
Rober...@home.com
=============================>
"barry" <blib...@nospam.adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:sm08pt0cr56m3q5qn...@4ax.com...
: Point taken. Just for grins, I emailed Pella's customer service
Alarminex
<msi...@home.com> writes:
>Subject: Re: Wiring Pella Casement windows
>From: "Mike Simpson" <msi...@home.com>
>Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 00:10:38 GMT
>
>From http://www.pella.com/service/warranty.asp
>
>Limitations
>Unless modified by the EnduraBrass ® hardware finish warranty, the seacoast
>exterior
>paint finish warranty, or the EnduraCladT Plus exterior paint finish
>warranty, this
>warranty does not cover: non-Pella products; products that have not been paid
>for in
>full; problems caused by improper storage, handling, installation, finishing,
>use,
>modification, or maintenance; Acts of God; accident........
>
>Mike Simpson
Kinda vague. But lacking a specific reply regarding alarm drilling into the
sill, this would allow them to interpret it in their favor, at their whim.
Alarminex
<blib...@nospam.adelphia.net> writes:
>Subject: Re: Wiring Pella Casement windows
>From: barry <blib...@nospam.adelphia.net>
>Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 18:27:38 -0400
>
>Point taken. Just for grins, I emailed Pella's customer service
>department specifically about this issue. I asked the following:
>
>1. Does drilling a small hole in the casing, not the sash, obviate the
>warranty on the glass seal.
>
>2. If so, why since it does not impact the structural integrity of the
>sash.
>
>2. If so, how do they expect anyone who uses their windows to have
>alarm contacts installed (my hope is they don't suggest wireless).
>
>I will post their response.
>
>Barry
>
Good move. Regardless what the answer, at least you'll be able to make an
informed decision.
I suspect that the answer to number 2 is ....... they don't. They are in the
window business and can't be expected to accomodate requirements other then the
intended purpose of the window.
We get the same response from the telephone company when there are problems
regarding alarm systems and incompatability with the telco system.
I'm looking forward to their reply and hope it's in your favor. Keep in mind
that if you ever do have a problem, you will be dealing with a local Pella
dealer who may invoke a hands off response. It will be up to you to produce an
official document from the factory to counter any attempt by the local dealer
to not honor the warranty. If you get an ok via E-mail now, it might be wise to
follow up with a written letter, to obtain a response on their letter head.
barry
Ok I spoke directly with Pella customer service today. I was informed
of the following:
1. Drilling a hole in the casing, not the sash, would not void the
warranty on the sash or the glass it contains.
2. Drilling a hole in the casing would void the waterproof guarantee
and the No-rot warrantee of the casing which I can certainly
understand.
3. Drilling a hole in the sash is a definite don't do. It then
becomes subjective as to whether or not the warrantee is voided on the
glass seal.
Regards and thanks to all for the suggestions and feedback!
Barry
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Robert L Bass
The area where I suggested you drill is actually inside the house. You can
leave a huge hole there and it won't leak into the wall. If you need help
visualizing this arrangement , let me know and I'll draw a sketch for you. I've
been doing casement windows this way for many years and have never had a problem
with leakage or warranty. Try it and I think you'll be pleased.
Regards,
Robert L Bass
=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
The Online DIY Alarm Store
http://www.Bass-Home.com
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota, FL 34233
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
941-925-9747 voice (Florida)
941-926-9857 fax
Rober...@home.com
=============================>
"barry" <blib...@nospam.adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:k5kaptcg4ppmic6m2...@4ax.com...
: [rest of stuff deleted to save space]
Robert L Bass
In an earlier reply I said I'd make a FAQ page for you if you want. I thought
about it further and decided to draw up the page anyway since this is a frequent
subject among DIY'rs. You can view it by clicking FAQ on my home page. A menu
will appear on the left side. Select Alarm Systems | Protection | Protect a
Casement Window.
Hoipe this helps clarify the method. Best of luck.
--
Regards,
Robert L Bass
=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
The Online DIY Alarm Store
http://www.Bass-Home.com
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota, FL 34233
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
941-925-9747 voice (Florida)
941-926-9857 fax
Rober...@home.com
=============================>
"barry" <blib...@nospam.adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:sm08pt0cr56m3q5qn...@4ax.com...
: Point taken. Just for grins, I emailed Pella's customer service
Alarminex
<Rober...@home.com> writes:
>Subject: Re: Wiring Pella Casement windows
>From: "Robert L Bass" <Rober...@home.com>
>Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 01:36:34 GMT
>
>Barry,
>
>The area where I suggested you drill is actually inside the house. You can
>leave a huge hole there and it won't leak into the wall. If you need help
>visualizing this arrangement , let me know and I'll draw a sketch for you.
>I've
>been doing casement windows this way for many years and have never had a
>problem
>with leakage or warranty. Try it and I think you'll be pleased.
>
>Regards,
>Robert L Bass
>
Barry, just watch out for this snake. He'll tell you anything just to get you
to buy something from him.
Alarminex
<blib...@nospam.adelphia.net> writes:
>Subject: Re: Wiring Pella Casement windows
>From: barry <blib...@nospam.adelphia.net>
>Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 18:11:56 -0400
>
>[rest of stuff deleted to save space]
>
>Ok I spoke directly with Pella customer service today. I was informed
>of the following:
>
>1. Drilling a hole in the casing, not the sash, would not void the
>warranty on the sash or the glass it contains.
>
>2. Drilling a hole in the casing would void the waterproof guarantee
>and the No-rot warrantee of the casing which I can certainly
>understand.
>
>3. Drilling a hole in the sash is a definite don't do. It then
>becomes subjective as to whether or not the warrantee is voided on the
>glass seal.
>
>Regards and thanks to all for the suggestions and feedback!
>
>Barry
>
Sounds like you're clear then. Drilling in the sill on the inside of the window
wont be of any consequence regarding rot or water leakeage.
I would still like to see you get something in writing from them. Only because
of my personal experience dealing with Pella Corporate, in the past.
Good luck.
Chris Larsen
Chris L.
"Robert L Bass" <Rober...@home.com> wrote in message
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