Glass Break detector question?
carter
option are they compared to contacts?
Do they audibly detect a certain range of freqs to alarm?
Do they attach to the glass?
Frank Olson
"carter" <ca...@netart.com> wrote in message
news:3F521F2B...@netart.com...
> How do these type of sensors work and how reliable of an
> option are they compared to contacts?
On an opening window, glass breaks are pretty useless unless the windows
closed and locked. Contacting it to show that it's "faulted" when open is a
good idea. Installing a "fresh air" opening by positioning the magnets so
you can open the window six inches is an alternative that works with sliding
windows and *some* crank style.
>
> Do they audibly detect a certain range of freqs to alarm?
Some do... some are shock sensors that actually attach to the glass.
>
> Do they attach to the glass?
Some do.
Here's a couple of links for more information:
http://www.getintellisense.com/products/glassbreaks/default.htm
http://www.geindustrial.com/cwc/products/ge-interlogix?pnlid=9&famid=55&catid=1134&id=sle-sens&lang=en_US
Robert L. Bass
FlexCore™ Signal Processor
The FlexCore Signal Processor is an Application-Specific Integrated Circuit (ASIC), which processes sound data in parallel rather than sequentially for faster, more accurate detection decisions. The combination of proven FlexGuard® performance with the speed of FlexCore processing provides unmatched false alarm immunity without compromising detection.Easy Installation and Setup
IntelliSense’s patented technology allows remote activation of Test Mode (with simulator). The FG-1625 has a centered wire entry hole, 45° terminal blocks, and EOL terminals. A hand-clap feature verifies that the detector is functioning.Selectable Sensitivity
Two dip switches on the FG-1625 make it easy to set the sensitivity to match the acoustics of the room. Four different sensitivity levels are available, ranging from very low to high. The range can then be verified remotely with the FlexGuard FG-701 Glassbreak Simulator.Mount the Detector Anywhere
Mounts on any wall, in the window frame, or on the ceiling, with no minimum range and a maximum range of 25’ (7.6 m) to the glass.Covers All Glass Types
The FG-1625 works on all glass types, including plate, tempered, laminated, wired, film-coated, and sealed insulating glass.Multiple Domain Signal Analysis
The FG-1625 performs Multiple Domain Signal Analysis in which time, frequency and amplitude characteristics are evaluated for signal qualification. This enables the detector to accurately discriminate false alarms from true glassbreak events.Enclosed PC Board
The PCB is protected from potential damage during installation.
Patented Remote Test Mode
The Patented Remote Test Mode can enabled or disable the indicator LEDs using the FG-701 Glassbreak Simulator. The unit automatically resets from Test Mode in five minutes.Mounting Locations
The FG-1625 can be mounted on the ceiling, opposite wall, adjoining wall, or the same wall as the glass.
Regards,
Robert
Bass Home Electronics, Inc
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
941-925-9747 Fax
941-232-0791 Wireless
Nextel Private ID - 161*21755*1
http://www.bass-home.com
=============================>
Frank Olson
"Robert L. Bass" <rober...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:k6OdnTtee99...@giganews.com...
<snip>
> Glassbreaks should be programmed as "Interior 2" devices which are
bypassed
> when the family is at home and awake.
What??? Glassbreaks provide *perimeter* protection... Are you going to
suggest he auto-bypasses the door to the patio too because he might be
barbequing?? Modern Glassbreak sensors can be put on a 24 hour loop if you
like with no adverse effects (I don't normally recommend this but some of
our clients have requested it and have never had a false alarm from the
zones programmed this way)...
> That is because normal activities, such as dropping a spoon into a
stainless steel sink,
The FG-1625's and the older 730 series have *never* falsed from that...
> playing "Top Gun" on the home theater system and slamming doors
> on alarm salesmen :^) can set them off.
Really??? Please... try it, Robert... You obviously don't have any in
your house... Gawd... you're sounding more and more like Paul the "RFI"...
<disclosure> Robert L. Bass is clueless when it comes to glass break
detectors.</disclosure>
Beachcomber
>I've used a number of different brands and models of glass break =
>detectors over the years. Early models were so bad that they couldn't =
>be used if there was an active pet or even a crying baby in the room. =
>Things have improved dramatically since then. Newer models like the FG =
>series are much more reliable. Note, however, that almost any acoustic =
>glassbreak will go off if there's a heavy thunderstorm in the immediate =
>vicinity.
>
I was an installer back in the 70's back when glass breakage detector
meant installing an Ademco (typical brand) vibration detector directly
on the pane of glass. I remember that those things used to go off if
you looked at them the wrong way...
Been out of the industry since then, but lately I've enjoyed keeping
up with the new technology. You say the new acoustic glassbreaks
still go off in thunderstorms? Is that a common occurance? Seems
for all of the improvements, that was always the no. 1 weakness...
Beachcomber
Mark Leuck
"Frank Olson" <(remove the "dot") ho...@shawdot.ca> wrote in message
news:nFs4b.66277$la.15...@news1.calgary.shaw.ca...
I've done it that way as well Frank, it depends on what the customer wants
and in some cases (although rare) I've set em up as interior zones because
the customer didn't want them active when they were home and the system was
armed
And I've triggered Intellisense glassbreaks using keys before, they aren't
THAT false-alarm resistant
Robert L. Bass
> up with the new technology. You say the new acoustic glassbreaks
> still go off in thunderstorms? Is that a common occurance? Seems
> for all of the improvements, that was always the no. 1 weakness...
Yes, that's still a problem. The better quality ones won't false unless
it's really intense, though.
Southern
"Frank Olson" <(remove the "dot") ho...@shawdot.ca> wrote in message
news:nFs4b.66277$la.15...@news1.calgary.shaw.ca...
> What??? Glassbreaks provide *perimeter* protection... Are you going to
> suggest he auto-bypasses the door to the patio too because he might be
> barbequing?? Modern Glassbreak sensors can be put on a 24 hour loop if
you
> like with no adverse effects (I don't normally recommend this but some of
> our clients have requested it and have never had a false alarm from the
> zones programmed this way)...
I think you need to do some real residential installing Frank. I have seen
*every* glass break fielded false in a home situation, even the newer high
tech ones. Teenage girls girl screams are real good at it, as are dishes,
percussion practice, snapping on the front panel of computer cases, pool
tables in rumpus rooms, and the Matrix or Dune on the HT.
We program the zone depending on where the glass breaks are installed.
Unoccupied basements are set up differently than the HT area. Houses with
teenagers programmed differently than a retired handicapped couple. I
assume others here do something similar.
Robert L. Bass
To minimize the chance of false alarms:
• Do not use outside.
• Avoid installing in rooms with high-level noise sources, such as air compressors, bells, power tools, etc., if those sources can be active when the detector can signal an alarm.
• Test false alarm immunity by activating any known noise sources in the room.
To maximize detection:
• Mount the unit on a wall or ceiling directly opposite the glass if possible. The least desirable mounting location is on the same wall as the glass.
• Minimize range to the glass. Do not install beyond the maximum specified range even if testing indicates greater range.
• Verify all installations back to the panel to be sure that the protection loop is intact.
Mode. Make sure to close the front cover of the FG-1025 before beginning test.
To test the FG-1025:
1. Place the unit in Test Mode as described above.
2. Set the FG-701 switches to the TEST and FLEX positions.
3. Press the red start button. The simulator will "click" on and start an eight second armed period.
4. Position the FG-701 near the farthest point of the protected glass and point it directly at the FG-1025.
5. Generate a flex signal by carefully striking the glass with a cushioned tool. The FG-701 will respond by producing a burst of glass-break audio. (Refer to Figure 7.) If both the flex and audio are received properly, the red alarm LED on the FG-1025 will light.
IMPORTANT: If window coverings are present, close them fully and hold the FG-701 behind the window coverings for testing.
NOTE: You can also use the simulator in the Manual mode to test
>> you like with no adverse effects (I don't normally recommend
>> zones programmed this way)...
> We program the zone depending on where the glass breaks are
Frank Olson
"Southern" <no@email> wrote in message
news:3D2dnV1M1dR...@comcast.com...
> I think you need to do some real residential installing Frank. I have
seen
> *every* glass break fielded false in a home situation, even the newer high
> tech ones. Teenage girls girl screams are real good at it, as are dishes,
> percussion practice, snapping on the front panel of computer cases, pool
> tables in rumpus rooms, and the Matrix or Dune on the HT.
Let's see... of the hundred's of 730 series glass breaks we've got out
there I can confidently say we've had *zero* false alarms. I don't count
the time one customer's son broke the living room window with a base ball...
The sensor performed flawlessly and did exactly what it was supposed to.
I've got the Matrix and Dune in our movie room... Along with an FG730...
I'll crank up the amp next time I watch them and get back to you. I have a
customer that has a daughter in a band (she plays the drums). They practice
in their garage and that has a FG-1625 mounted on the ceiling... No
problems... Dropping a dish or glass on the floor *can* result in an alarm
(or so I've heard)... I guess if you stomped on the floor at the same time
that the glass broke, it would go off, but then you *are* meeting all the
sensor's detection parameters aren't you?
>
> We program the zone depending on where the glass breaks are installed.
> Unoccupied basements are set up differently than the HT area. Houses
with
> teenagers programmed differently than a retired handicapped couple. I
> assume others here do something similar.
I agree the environment plays a huge role in how any detector should be set
up. I've yet to see an Intellisense FG series detector false from any of
the things you've mentioned (including rattling your keys)...
Frank Olson
>> What??? Glassbreaks provide *perimeter* protection...
From one of the IntelliSense installation manuals:
<snip>
Now that you know how to install (and test) them properly, I'm sure that
you're going to provide better information in your FAQ's...
>These detectors are for perimeter protection but an experienced installer
> would know that they are not the same as magnetic sensors (contacts).
> Anyone who has actually installed for a living for more than a week knows
> you don't want glass break sensors armed while the family is at home and
> moving about.
On the contrary... You *want* the perimeter protection activated while the
family's at home. Perimeter systems are designed to safeguard individuals
*not* contents... And no... I don't give you permission to use this line in
your FAQ...
>> Modern Glassbreak sensors can be put on a 24 hour loop if
>> you like with no adverse effects (I don't normally recommend
>> this but ...
> Uh-huh.
>> some of our clients...
> You don't do installations.
You know nothing about what I do... Your investigative skills leave much to
be desired.
>> have requested it and have never had a false alarm from the
>> zones programmed this way)...
> Were these clients also with you aboard the Fictitious Flight
> of the Phantom Fools where you claim to have inverted a 737
> jet airliner at 5000 AGL and lived to tell the tale?
Nope...
>> I think you need to do some real residential installing Frank.
> He doesn't install residential or commercial systems.
Heh, heh, heh... The "green monster" on your shoulder's getting bigger by
the minute, isn't he??
>> I have seen *every* glass break fielded false in a home situation,
> Same here.
Yeah, I'll bet... Was that like seven years ago??
>> even the newer high tech ones. Teenage girls girl screams are real
>> good at it, as are dishes, percussion practice, snapping on the front
>> panel of computer cases, pool tables in rumpus rooms, and the
>> Matrix or Dune on the HT.
> Play "Band of Brothers" on my HT and the neighbor's glass breaks
> go off three houses away.
That's probably because you installed it (on the "QT")...
>> We program the zone depending on where the glass breaks are
>> installed. Unoccupied basements are set up differently than the
>> HT area. Houses with teenagers programmed differently than a
>> retired handicapped couple. I assume others here do something
>> similar.
> Yes.
Liar... You haven't installed professionally for seven years, Robert...
Petem
before but stopped before touching the send button...)
But this time I have to say that Robert have a point there..
every damn GB I have seen would trigger in normal life operation..
Frank I am very disappointed by you...but I hope you wont think I am at war
with you..
Robert don't think that I am friend either..I don't want to be between you 2
"Southern" <no@email> wrote in message
news:3D2dnV1M1dR...@comcast.com...
>
Southern
Maybe they are made different for the Canadian market, like ladies hose. ;-)
Seriously. We discuss with our clients how we are going to program the
glass breaks and what do to if one false triggers. Most think that 24 hrs
is the way to go. After a few months, we end up changing those in the
active areas of the home to a night/away type of setting. We also have
noticed that tile floors on a slab seem to aggravate the falsing, especially
in a kitchen. Pool tables seem to set them off a lot too. The snapping
the front of a computer case is our assembly area makes the FG nearby go off
every time. Clearly your experience and mine are contradictory. I don't
consider the technology flawed. Its come a long way. We have no problem
adjusting the programming to meet the capabilities of the technology and the
lifestyle at the location. Its what we get paid what we do.
I don't ever use my keys ;-)
Frank Olson
designed to protect my clients and not their property... Things may be
different in Quebec... Maybe it's the French accent... ;-)
"Petem" <pe...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:U1w4b.15717$qA6.2...@wagner.videotron.net...
Frank Olson
>
> Maybe they are made different for the Canadian market, like ladies hose.
;-)
The fish net stockings they used in the movie "Chicago" are only
manufactured in one place... Vancovuer, BC... (Some "meaningful" Canadian
trivia)...
>
> Seriously. We discuss with our clients how we are going to program the
> glass breaks and what do to if one false triggers.
Check... We do exactly the same thing... Never had one "false trigger"
though... Even in the kitchen the client appreciates the fact that if he
drops a glass on his tile floor the green light flashes (on the FG-730) to
let him know that the sensor's working...
> Most think that 24 hrs
> is the way to go. After a few months, we end up changing those in the
> active areas of the home to a night/away type of setting.
Interesting... Sort of defeats the purpose of having them installed in the
first place, doesn't it??
> We also have
> noticed that tile floors on a slab seem to aggravate the falsing,
especially
> in a kitchen.
Hmmm... I've noticed that floors with plywood bases are more prone to
setting off the yellow light (flex indicator) than the ones on a slab...
You must have some pretty thin slabs down your way... :-)
> Pool tables seem to set them off a lot too.
Got one... I've only seen the green light trip once... (on a "break" in
which my older son dropped four balls in three pockets)... No Robert, I
don't have a video of that...
> The snapping
> the front of a computer case is our assembly area makes the FG nearby go
off
> every time.
You've gotta adjust your sensors... We build computers too...
> Clearly your experience and mine are contradictory.
Yep...
> I don't consider the technology flawed. Its come a long way.
It's not... and it has...
> We have no problem
> adjusting the programming to meet the capabilities of the technology and
the
> lifestyle at the location. Its what we get paid what we do.
Check!!!
>
> I don't ever use my keys ;-)
Try it sometime... :-)
Allan Waghalter
only on rare occassions and then for a specific problem would we catagorize
one as interior. I have been doing this since 1983 beginning with the
Visonic GFD20. It was pretty good, but the new ones from Caddx (FG3000) are
excellent. If I have a problem with two dogs, one big for the flex sound
and a little squirt with a high pitched bark in the same house, I switch to
the sentrol 5812A. While it is more expensive, it handles the dogs better.
In the past few months, I have been installing a GE 512-RND. It is about
1/3 less money than the Caddx and about half the price of the 5812. So far,
I have had no false alarms. My tester indicates that the catch should be
nominal.
We have a lot of thunderstorms here. If there is a close by lightning
strike, we can get an occassional false. But, with the close strike, it
could be something more than the audio portion that trips the system.
Regards,
Allan Waghalter
"Frank Olson" <(remove the "dot") ho...@shawdot.ca> wrote in message
news:nFs4b.66277$la.15...@news1.calgary.shaw.ca...
Allan Waghalter
protection when the alarm is turned on. To many false alarms if programmed
24 hours... slamming a counter door, construction, nailing a picture on the
wall.... Let the customer decide when they want the alarm to be turned on.
Why do you post anonymously? What are you afraid of?
Allan
"Southern" <no@email> wrote in message
news:5O6dnYQRwdd...@comcast.com...
Southern
news:hCA4b.3107$gr2...@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
> Don't ever program glass breaks on a 24 hour zone. They are for perimeter
> protection when the alarm is turned on. To many false alarms if
programmed
> 24 hours... slamming a counter door, construction, nailing a picture on
the
> wall.... Let the customer decide when they want the alarm to be turned
on.
Int/24/perimeter are terms somewhat dependent on the panel you use. Lets
try it without the vendor words.
- We prefer to set up any glass break trigger as an alarm generating event
for safety, even if the panel is not armed. If you fall through a large
window you need help. Its a safety thing and most of our customers seem to
be into big picture windows.
- In some locations of many houses, that is not possible since when the
occupants are present and active since their activities cause the nearby
glass breaks to trip occasionally.
- To solve the problem we program those glass break zones to be an alarm
generating events only when the system is armed.
Robert L. Bass
> you use. Lets try it without the vendor words.
Vendor words? :^)
> - We prefer to set up any glass break trigger as an alarm generating
> event for safety, even if the panel is not armed.
I've used glass breaks on more that 90% of our installations for many years.
Probably 80% or more of my DIY clients also use them. This amounts to quite
a few thousand units installed by now. I've found that even the best units
can be activated from normal activities when the family is at home. As
such, I never want glass breaks active unless the people are either asleep
or not at home. YMMV.
> If you fall through a large window you need help.
Indeed.
> Its a safety thing and most of our customers seem to be into
> big picture windows.
How many of them have fallen through a picture window? Perhaps some unlucky
clutz has done it but in 26 years I've not had a client do that. Maybe it's
just luck.
> - In some locations of many houses, that is not possible since
> when the occupants are present and active since their activities
> cause the nearby glass breaks to trip occasionally.
Precisely. If the glass break is in the basement and there's not much other
than laundry equipment and a furnace there, then leave the glass breaks
active. In the kitchen, family room, home theater, dining room, etc., the
likelihood of a false alarm approaches unity. I prefer to set the glass
breaks in those locations as "Interior" devices so that they are not armed
when the family is about. On some Napco panels there are two Interior
groups. You can place the glass breaks in Interior 2 and the motion
detectors in Interior 1. This allows the client to have the motion
detectors off whenever anyone is home and the glass breaks on when they're
out of the house or asleep.
Nathaniel Lind (New)
Playing certain video games.
Drums (acoustic or electronic), especially Cymbals.
Action Movies
Smoke Detectors/CO Detectors (This might be advantageous, though.)
Woodworking, Car repair (even though they shouldn't be installed in a
garage), metalworking...
Newer keyboards, sound effects CD's,......
Nathaniel Lind (New)
a while they had a vibration-actuated glassbreak on their door and it would
often false, whether from wind or even an insect slamming into it. I also
read a report on the 'Net a while back that told about a vibration-actuated
glassbreak that was triggered by a smoke alarm! (I assumed the SD was one of
the older units that used the vibratory electromechanical horns [the ones
that have the buzzer like sound])
Rex Wilson
do you like the Sentrol 5400 series?
Robert L. Bass
>> it's really intense, though.
> what do you consider the "better quality" ones?
> do you like the Sentrol 5400 series?
I really like the IntelliSense FG series detectors. I've used them for
quite a few years.
The Sentrol 5400 series are shock detectors -- not the same as acoustic
detectors. They are designed to protect one window or possibly two
adjacent, fixed pane windows with a narrow mullion between them.
Acoustic glass breaks cover an entire room and do not require wiring to the
windows. This is a major advantage over on-glass or on-frame models. The
5400's have their place, though. If there is only one window in the room
such as a bathroom or laundry, the Sentrol 5415A-W is handy. It provides
both glass breakage protection and a magnetic switch (contact) to detect if
the window is opened.
Sentrol also makes an acoustic glass break called a 5620W. They refer to
the series as "ShatterPro." It replaced their horrible "ShatterBox" line
which would false if a canary sneezed in the next county. The ShatterPro
series seem to be greatky improved. Those I've sold online have not been a
significant source of problems to date.
Ratch...@columbus.rr.com
gb's up for instant perimeter protection. Lets face it, most people don't
use the alarm system when they are playing pool or have a
200-man-marching-band practice in their basement. I simply ask if they plan
to use the alarm system while they are alseep, awake or both and program
accordingly. Secondly, customer education plays a big part in reduction of
falses. I simply tell customer that they will learn what does and does not
set gb's into alarm. For example, if you are sweeping the floors with a
power sweeper, or drilling holes with a drill or mixing some margauritas
with a blender, the motor will most definitely set the gb off. simply give
monitoring your password and don't do it again with the system on. Kinda
like the ole' "doctor it hurts when i slam my hand in the car door thing"
the doctor will tell you 100-times-out-of-a-100 don't slam your hand in the
car door.
Ratch...@columbus.rr.com
accidently big deal. give up the password to monitoring and go on with your
life. For those of you who are setting these up as interior verses perimeter
just to reduce false alarms while at the same time reducing the protection,
check to see if your business insurance is up to date, your gonna need it.
allpaws
devise at forecasting a break than a vibs ...esp if with a pir afterwards.
altho in saying that i do occasionally find bgds go off in sympathy of pirs.
Vibs work as a deterrent I guess. In terms of false (ie unwanted) alarms
vibs are far worse than bgds activated by sound/both.
Air pressure sensors suck.
Robert L. Bass
Avoid locations that expose the detector to possible false alarm sources such as:
-
Glass airlocks and vestibule areas
-
Kitchens
-
Residential car garages
-
Small utility rooms
-
Stairwells
-
Bathrooms
-
Small acoustically live rooms
-
Air vents
> falses. I simply tell customer that they will learn what does and
Robert L. Bass
> goes into alarm accidently big deal.
That attitude is the primary reason the alarm industry gets zero respect
from police and fire departments all over the country.
> give up the password to monitoring and go on with your
> life. For those of you who are setting these up as interior
> verses perimeter just to reduce false alarms...
Arrrggggh!!! *Just* to reduce false alarms???
> while at the same time reducing the protection, check to
> see if your business insurance is up to date, your gonna
> need it.
I've been in this trade for over 26 years. I've never been sued yet. It
sounds like you've been in the trade a relatively short time and you're
totally unconcerned about the biggest problem the industry faces. You
blithely pass off the false alarms you cause with a "so what" attitude.
Marc Mazzarese
>I have seen
>*every* glass break fielded false in a home situation, even the newer high
>tech ones. Teenage girls girl screams are real good at it, as are dishes,
>percussion practice, snapping on the front panel of computer cases, pool
>tables in rumpus rooms, and the Matrix or Dune on the HT.
I have even seen new ones false from a dog barking.
Marc Mazzarese
ABC Alarm Holdings
Aquisitions
Frank Olson
> I've been in this trade for over 26 years. I've never been sued yet. It
> sounds like you've been in the trade a relatively short time and you're
> totally unconcerned about the biggest problem the industry faces. You
> blithely pass off the false alarms you cause with a "so what" attitude.
Robert:
Not again.... PULEEZE!!
Speaking of not answering a question...
> "Robert L. Bass" <rober...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:0JCdnQRFkZc...@giganews.com...
>
> > I was installing alarms long before 1979 -- just not under the corporate
> > name. We didn't incorporate for a number of years.
> In most states and provinces you have to *register* a trade name to carry
on
> business (invoice customers), pay your State and Federal taxes, WCB, etc.
> When did you register your trade name? Or did people simply write cheques
> to "Robert L. Bass, itinerate unlicensed alarm installer"?? I'm real
> curious as to how you got your start in this profession... Not many
people
> would simply plonk down a whole lot of money for all the equipment
required
> to operate a CS without knowing *something* about the industry. Where did
> you apprentice - or did you just "sprout" the spade drill and Grabbit??
When did you get your alarm license in CT? Where did you apprentice (gain
the experience necessary to meet the exam and licensing criteria)??