napco versus dsc
Ken Yip
Subject:
Re: Comparison: Napco Gemini v DSC Power-832
Date:
Sat, 17 May 1997 01:14:23 -0400
From:
Robert L Bass <alar...@BassHome.com>
Organization:
@Home Network
To:
Graham Smith <GSm...@PrecisionAlarms.com>
Newsgroups:
alt.security.alarms
References:
1 , 2 , 3 , 4
Since I sell Napco and DSC panels, I think I'm in a fairly neutral
position on this matter. I have to take issue with this kind of post,
though.
Graham Smith wrote:
>
> We have used both products since they came on the market. Without
> getting into all the details of product specification the Napco is a
> better product.
When you bash a product "without getting into the details," it just
sounds like competition bashing. I agree that there are differences
between the two similarly priced systems. Each has some advantages over
the other. They also share many common features, as would be expected.
What I have found is that "most" Napco products are pretty hard to
damage without a hammer. They do very well during lightning storms that
destroy nearby systems from other firms. The Napco products, quite the
contrary to your statement, last for years. I did say "most." The Napco
MA-2600 system was buggy and had a bad memory design, relying on a
lithium cell for long-term memory protection. After the lithium cell
died, the next long power failure would result in a total loss of
programming. The panel was effectively dead. Newer Napco panels have not
suffered from this design error.
The early MA-3000 panels were a real pain. There were countless software
revisions, all of which required site visits to correct program bugs. By
the time Napco reached version 56D, things were pretty much OK. Only the
holiday wildcards don't work, but there's a simple work-around for that.
The Gemini series panels seem to have really benefited from the years of
experimentation with the older MA-3000 series. So far, we have not had
any returns of Gemini products. We sell lots of systems, by the way, due
to our on-line discount sales approach.
> I have found the DSC product to have very poor
> reliability and we received several DOA panels and accessories.
I have also had not one single DSC panel or module returned, except for
one zone doubler. This device, which some installers love, is in my
opinion, too much trouble for what it gives. But that's just my opinion.
It is not poor quality -- I just don't like using multiple resistors for
zone division (doubling). However, since DSC also sells a very
reasonably priced, high quality 8-zone expansion module, the zone
doubler is not needed.
> As for
> Napco not having and intercom it's because somethings don't mix.
Don't mix? Are you trying to say intercom systems are inherently
incompatible with security systems? If that is so, please explain to me
why more intercom systems are sold by alarm companies than anyone else,
with the exception of the Nutone line, which is primarily marketed
through electrical distributors.
DSC has an intercom feature because alarm installers asked for it.
Installers asked for it because customers want it. Napco doesn't offer
an intercom because Napco feels they can sell enough panels without the
added features and benefits of an intercom. I guess they can, since
their business is growing at a steady pace every year, just like DSC.
> The DSC
> panel doesn't do a very good job with the intercom. You must use
> shielded wire (not mentioned in the installation manual) and the
> communication is simplex only.
You have not said what you consider inadequate about the DSC intercom.
The shielded wire is indeed mentioned in the installation manual. If you
had read the manual, you would have seen the diagram on page 5, showing
"shielded cable." If you haven't read the manual, I have difficulty
giving credence to your opening statement that you have used the panel
"since they came on the market."
> Napco Gemini does EVERYTHING you really
> need in a security panel and the wireless beats DSC hands down. To my
> knowledge Napco is one of the only companies to have a full wireless
> product line. (KeyFOB, PIR, Smoke, Glassbreak, Dual PIR,
> Door/Transmitter)
DSC sells wireless Keyfobs, Smokes, Motion Detectors, Door/Window
Transmitters. Napco's spread spectrum is very good quality -- almost as
powerful as the C&K system. I have not yet used the DSC wireless
products, though some of my clients have and, so far so good. I will be
testing a few of DSC's RF components in my own home shortly.
Although I have extensive experience with Napco and have an excellent
working relationship with the support group and the marketing people, I
chose a DSC Power-832 for my own home for two reasons. First it's very
similar in features and price to the Napco Gemini P3200. Second, since I
sell it on my web site, I wanted to become more familiar with the
features and any quirks and difficulties my clients may run into.
In sum, Napco does indeed make good products. You are entitled to boast
endlessly about their many features. But competition bashing, whether it
is directed at a specific installing company or just a slew of
unsupported derogatory statements about another firm's products is best
avoided here.
If you have specific complaints about poor service, inadequate tech
support or documentable product failures, by all means voice them
loudly. We all want to know before we install a crummy product and make
a client unhappy. Please just put some sunstance in the post, though --
not "xyz beats abc hands down." If xyz truly is better say so and say
why.
FROM KENYIP
I LIKE TO ADD MY 2 BITS REGARDING DSC POWER 832.
I HAVE BEEN INSTALLING THE PANELS FOR LAST SEVERAL MONTHS. I FIND THE
PANEL SO FAR QUITE RELIABLE, LOTS OF FLEXIBILITY AND OPTIONS. i HAVE
SEEN THE NEW VERSION OF INTERCOM INSTALL WITH THE PANEL. SOUND QUALITY
ARE NOT BAD AT ALL. HOWEVER I FIND 2 OCCASIONS BOTH ARE RESIDENTIAL
CUSTOMERS. FOR NO REASON AT ALL THE KEYPADS (LED) BLANK. WHEN ANY ZONES
ARE OPEN, KEYPAD WONT DISPLAY, NO FEED BACK WHEN ANY KEY BEING PRESS,
SYSTEM CANNOT BE ARMED. 1 CASE: WE REPLACE KEYPAD, NO CHANGE. PUT
ORGINAL KEYPAD BACK, RESET POWER TO TO KEYPAD, KEYPAD FINALLY START
WORKING. THE OTHER CASE, BEHAVES ALMOST THE SAME. I SUSPECT THE
MICROPROCESSOR IN KEYPAD HANG UP. ANYONE HAVE SIMILAR EXPERIENCE? I HAVE
DISCUSSED THIS WITH DISTRIBUTOR AND TECHS. THEY SAY KEYPAD MAY HAVE
PROGRAM AS GLOBAL KEYPAD. I CHECK PROGRAMMING, KEYPAD WAS PROGRAM FOR
PARTITION 1. AND SYSTEM INSTALLED AND WORKING FOR SEVERAL MONTHS.
KEN
eric
Ken Yip wrote:
> HOWEVER I FIND 2 OCCASIONS BOTH ARE RESIDENTIAL
> CUSTOMERS. FOR NO REASON AT ALL THE KEYPADS (LED) BLANK. WHEN ANY ZONES
> ARE OPEN, KEYPAD WONT DISPLAY, NO FEED BACK WHEN ANY KEY BEING PRESS,
> SYSTEM CANNOT BE ARMED. 1 CASE: WE REPLACE KEYPAD, NO CHANGE. PUT
> ORGINAL KEYPAD BACK, RESET POWER TO TO KEYPAD, KEYPAD FINALLY START
> WORKING. THE OTHER CASE, BEHAVES ALMOST THE SAME. I SUSPECT THE
> MICROPROCESSOR IN KEYPAD HANG UP. ANYONE HAVE SIMILAR EXPERIENCE? I HAVE
> DISCUSSED THIS WITH DISTRIBUTOR AND TECHS. THEY SAY KEYPAD MAY HAVE
> PROGRAM AS GLOBAL KEYPAD. I CHECK PROGRAMMING, KEYPAD WAS PROGRAM FOR
> PARTITION 1. AND SYSTEM INSTALLED AND WORKING FOR SEVERAL MONTHS.
>
> KEN
The only time I had this problem is when _I_ programmed the keypad as
global, press and hold 1 for two seconds to see if you can force it to
partition 1, if it comes back, reprogram the sucker, address 000, you
have to program each keypad by hand, and make sure each has a separate
keypad address.
btw - a friend of a friend services rf stuff at dsc, and yes I live in
Toronto
eric.