Need help with fire zone on DSC alarm...
Daniel Born
Hi all,
I have a "PC 1500" DSC alarm (basic 6 zones with supervision). I
recently had an "interesting" problem with it: three hours into a power
failure (therefore on the backup battery), it decided (falsely) that
there was a fire in my house... :(
I finally traced the problem to a resistor of 1K Ohm in parallel with my
smoke detector, if I remove that resistor, everything is fine...
Let me give you a bit more info on my system: it's powered by a 15VA,
16V. AC power supply and the backup battery is 12 Volts, 4 Amps (now
upgraded to a 7 Amps). The fire zone has two heat detectors and one
(alarm powered) smoke detector. All these devices are connected in
parallel to a normally open circuit.
I didn't check the heat detectors yet, but I'll bet they both have the
same 1K resistors in parallel with the contacts! I'm assuming that three
1K resistors in parallel will give about 333 Ohms??? Maybe this value is
too low?
I assume that these resistors are there to create a "3 state" system:
Open circuit: problem.
Closed circuit: alarm condition.
In between: Everything normal.
What I'd like to know is: how should this be done so that everything
works properly?
Thanks for any help!
Daniel
P.S. My alarm installer went bankrupt and I asked another installer I
know and was not satisfied with his answer...
P.P.S. Notice my "real" return address: This means I'm REAL interested
in a response! ;)
Irv Fisher
On Thu, 15 Jan 1998 22:11:44 -0500, Daniel Born <db...@sympatico.ca>
wrote:
>What I'd like to know is: how should this be done so that everything
>works properly?
I'm not a real field tech but I read pretty good. The manual calls
for a 1K ohm resistance across the fire loop. If you've got 300,
you've got a problem.
Paul Thompson
Daniel Born wrote in message <34BECF...@sympatico.ca>...
>I have a "PC 1500" DSC alarm (basic 6 zones with supervision). I
>recently had an "interesting" problem with it: three hours into a power
>failure (therefore on the backup battery), it decided (falsely) that
>there was a fire in my house... :(
>Let me give you a bit more info on my system: it's powered by a 15VA,
>16V. AC power supply and the backup battery is 12 Volts, 4 Amps (now
>upgraded to a 7 Amps). The fire zone has two heat detectors and one
>(alarm powered) smoke detector. All these devices are connected in
>parallel to a normally open circuit.
>
>I didn't check the heat detectors yet, but I'll bet they both have the
>same 1K resistors in parallel with the contacts! I'm assuming that three
>1K resistors in parallel will give about 333 Ohms??? Maybe this value is
>too low?
>
>I assume that these resistors are there to create a "3 state" system:
>Open circuit: problem.
>Closed circuit: alarm condition.
>In between: Everything normal.
Daniel, the problem is not with your smoke alarm; it is your backup battery.
When you had your power failure, the battery took over as primary supply but
after three hours was unable to provide proper operating voltage to the
smoke alarm. It failed, going into alarm. The DSC1500 requires a 1K resistor
as a means of supervising the loop condition.
Open: trouble
Closed: alarm
1K: normal
The resistor should be placed at the farthest point in the loop, if it is in
the panel then nothing is being supervised. If the heat detectors are on the
same circuit and you have already found the resistor then they shouldn't
have one. If all these devices are home-run and terminated in parallel at
the panel, then it wasn't done right. They should run from one to another
with the resistor at the last device, or be double-looped back to the
control. That way everything is still home-run and all the splices are in
the panel. Replacing your backup battery should solve your problem.
Paul Thompson
aeon...@usa.net
http://www.infodex.org/alu/index.html
Dimitry Shuster
I guess I have a similiar problem and was wondering if someone could
help me out. I have a Power832 PC5010. All my burglary zones are
Normally Closed Loops. My fire zone has a resistor at the end. My fire
zone consists of my smoke sensor and heat sensors wired in parallel and
a resistor at the end. In the manual you have an option for First
System Option Code to program it either Normally Closed Loops or
End-of-Line Resistors. I am assuming this affects all the zones. So
what do you do if one zone has a resistor and the rest dont. I put fire
on my last usualable zone.
Does that mean I have to put a resistor on all the rest of the zones?
Erik
Fire zones on the 832 always need a resistor, whether you have your burglary
zones programmed with one, two, or no EOL resistors. Also the fire loops
should be using the normally open circuit rather than a closed one. A single
resistor of 5.6K across the open contacts does the job.
Dimitry Shuster wrote in message <69pfk1$5dg$1...@ha2.rdc1.md.home.com>...
la...@pop.flash.net
In article <69pfk1$5dg$1...@ha2.rdc1.md.home.com>,
dshu...@home.com (Dimitry Shuster) wrote:
>
> I guess I have a similiar problem and was wondering if someone could
> help me out. I have a Power832 PC5010. All my burglary zones are
> Normally Closed Loops. My fire zone has a resistor at the end. My fire
> zone consists of my smoke sensor and heat sensors wired in parallel and
> a resistor at the end. In the manual you have an option for First
> System Option Code to program it either Normally Closed Loops or
> End-of-Line Resistors. I am assuming this affects all the zones. So
> what do you do if one zone has a resistor and the rest dont. I put fire
> on my last usualable zone.
>
> Does that mean I have to put a resistor on all the rest of the zones?
If you program the burg zones as "normally Closed Loops"
you don't need a resistor (address 013). By putting the fire protection
on the last useable zone and defining it as a 24hr "Fire"
(either 07 or 08), the panel then needs to see 5600 ohm on
that zone only. This is the way to utilize a 4 wire smoke
detector. With the 4 wire S/D, remember to use a "end of
line power supervision module/relay). With this module/relay
if the S/D is not functioning due to loss of power you will
have the appropriate trouble condition. Wire the power for the
fire circuit with + to aux, and the neg to "PGM 2". Program PGM 3 as
03 for sensor reset (address 009). This allows you to reset the S/D
after burning the toast. I personally prefer 2-wire smoke detectors
on this system.
Don F - SoCal Alarm Dealer
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Wally Waller
Dimitry Shuster wrote:
>
> I guess I have a similiar problem and was wondering if someone could
> help me out. I have a Power832 PC5010. All my burglary zones are
> Normally Closed Loops. My fire zone has a resistor at the end. My fire
> zone consists of my smoke sensor and heat sensors wired in parallel and
> a resistor at the end. In the manual you have an option for First
> System Option Code to program it either Normally Closed Loops or
> End-of-Line Resistors. I am assuming this affects all the zones. So
> what do you do if one zone has a resistor and the rest dont. I put fire
> on my last usualable zone.
When you program a zone as a fire zone, that over rides the NC spec
for the rest of the zones.
> Does that mean I have to put a resistor on all the rest of the zones?
No
Robert L Bass
FLEM 6557
><HTML><PRE><FONT COLOR="#000000" BACK="#ffffff" SIZE=3>I guess I have a
>similiar problem and was wondering if someone could
help me out. I have a
>Power832 PC5010. All my burglary zones are
Normally Closed Loops. My fire
>zone has a resistor at the end. My fire
zone consists of my smoke sensor
>and heat sensors wired in parallel and
a resistor at the end. In the manual
>you have an option for First
System Option Code to program it either
>Normally Closed Loops or
End-of-Line Resistors. I am assuming this affects
>all the zones. So
what do you do if one zone has a resistor and the rest
>dont. I put fire
on my last usualable zone.
Does that mean I have to put
>a resistor on all the rest of the zones?</PRE></HTML>
Dimitry, I am not familiar with the alarm system you mentioned specifically.
But, by what you say, you should program zones with End-of-line-Resistors
required and place resistors on each zone. The Fire zone should have the
resistor across the terminals of the last device zone terminal and the burglary
zones should have the resistor in series, which means on leg of the loop should
be tied to on side of the resistor and the other side of the resistor tied to
on side of the last device in the circuit. Hope this helps. Its a little
difficult to explain. But easy to do.
Regards,
Mark
Robert L Bass`
Charles Mackenzie wrote:
>
> Sorry to say, you have to make all zones EOL or N/C loops you can not assign
> just one zone.This is not correct. You can indeed assign the fire zone as EOLR supervised with all other zones as NC loops. This is the one exception to the all or nothing EOLR programming option on the DSC Power832 system.
BTW, the Napco systems all allow selection of EOL or NC on a zone by
zone basis. They use an "open matrix" with the zone numbers across
the top and the features down the left side. You can select (almost)
any cobination of features for each zone without regard to the
features of other zones. Nice panels!
RLBass
Robert L Bass`
Yep. You are correct. One cupy doll coming right up, Doug :)
VSS DOUG wrote:
>
> Charles wrote
>
> >Sorry to say, you have to make all zones EOL or N/C loops you can not assign
> >just one zone.
>
> I dont think so Charles,it is my understanding if you program a zone as a Fire
> zone on a PC5010 it will overide the N/C setting in the system option section .
>
> Doug L
--
Blue Skies,
Robert L Bass
========================>
Bass Home Electronics >
80 Bentwood Road >
W Hartford, CT 06107 >
alar...@BassHome.com >
http://www.BassHome.com >
860-561-9542 Voice >
860-521-2143 Fax >
========================>
Charles Mackenzie
Sorry to say, you have to make all zones EOL or N/C loops you can not assign
just one zone.
VSS DOUG
Charles wrote
>Sorry to say, you have to make all zones EOL or N/C loops you can not assign
>just one zone.
I dont think so Charles,it is my understanding if you program a zone as a Fire
Dimitry Shuster
I finally got it to work. I made one zone Standard Fire and the rest
N/C Burglary Zones and it worked fine.
Thanks to everyone for the info.
-Dimitry
In article <34C326C3...@securitysupplies.com>,
Cha...@securitysupplies.com says...
>
>Sorry to say, you have to make all zones EOL or N/C loops you can not
assign
>just one zone.
>
Darren Lesage
Wally Waller <lushc...@erin.go.way> wrote:
>Dimitry Shuster wrote:
>>
>> I guess I have a similiar problem and was wondering if someone could
>> help me out. I have a Power832 PC5010. All my burglary zones are
>> Normally Closed Loops. My fire zone has a resistor at the end. My fire
>> zone consists of my smoke sensor and heat sensors wired in parallel and
>> a resistor at the end. In the manual you have an option for First
>> System Option Code to program it either Normally Closed Loops or
>> End-of-Line Resistors. I am assuming this affects all the zones. So
>> what do you do if one zone has a resistor and the rest dont. I put fire
>> on my last usualable zone.
>
>When you program a zone as a fire zone, that over rides the NC spec
>for the rest of the zones.
>
Really? Then all my PC 5010 panels must be defective, because programming ANY zone as a fire zone only changes THAT
zone to NO and the other zones are left as programmed, NC.
Or DSC is selling different panels in the US.
>> Does that mean I have to put a resistor on all the rest of the zones?
>
>No
>
>Robert L Bass
Darren Lesage
Charles Mackenzie <Cha...@securitysupplies.com> wrote:
>Sorry to say, you have to make all zones EOL or N/C loops you can not assign
>just one zone.
>
Better read your installation manual Charles, because you are definately wrong. Just this past Friday, my tech put in a
PC 5010, with one expansion board to make a total of 16 zone, and the 16 th zone was programmed as a 24 hour fire with
delay (zone definition 07) and it is the only zone with a resistor (56Kohms). ALL other zones are NC and the system
works perfectly. I programmed the panel via the DLS-2 software, so I know how it is programmed.
>Dimitry Shuster wrote:
>
>> I guess I have a similiar problem and was wondering if someone could
>> help me out. I have a Power832 PC5010. All my burglary zones are
>> Normally Closed Loops. My fire zone has a resistor at the end. My fire
>> zone consists of my smoke sensor and heat sensors wired in parallel and
>> a resistor at the end. In the manual you have an option for First
>> System Option Code to program it either Normally Closed Loops or
>> End-of-Line Resistors. I am assuming this affects all the zones. So
>> what do you do if one zone has a resistor and the rest dont. I put fire
>> on my last usualable zone.
>>
Robert L Bass`
Darren Lesage wrote:
>
> Wally Waller <lushc...@erin.go.way> wrote:
>
> >Dimitry Shuster wrote:
> >>
> >> I guess I have a similiar problem and was wondering if someone could
> >> help me out. I have a Power832 PC5010. All my burglary zones are
> >> Normally Closed Loops. My fire zone has a resistor at the end. My fire
> >> zone consists of my smoke sensor and heat sensors wired in parallel and
> >> a resistor at the end. In the manual you have an option for First
> >> System Option Code to program it either Normally Closed Loops or
> >> End-of-Line Resistors. I am assuming this affects all the zones. So
> >> what do you do if one zone has a resistor and the rest dont. I put fire
> >> on my last usualable zone.
> >
> >for the rest of the zones.
That should have read, ".... over rides the NC spec for that one zone,
without affecting the other NC zones."