Calling all Mackay....
mhicaoidh
kilt back to the US from Scotland through Customs. It occurred to me this
evening as I was going over my itinerary, that this would be a perfect place
to flush out a section of my trip. For a portion of my trip, I plan to head
deep into the Highlands to the traditional stomping grounds of Clan Mackay.
I had planned to go to Durness because the pictures I have seen from there
have been absolutely breath taking. Also, I've learned that Tongue is the
traditional "seat" of the Clan, and that there is an old Mackay castle near
there. So ....
Do any of you know of any specific places that have historical
significance to the Clan's history? Is there still a strong Clan presence
in the area? Will I be welcomed as a Mackay if I let my surname (McCoy) be
known (definitely don't plan to make an issue of it)? Will I be required to
shake my fist at any Sutherland I may meet <GBG>? In all seriousness, I
would like my trip to that area to include some opportunities to learn more
about our Clan. I've been able to learn some from my family (although they
aren't as "in to it" as I have become), and have educated myself about a lot
more of it. For example, I hear the original Bratach Bhan is still in
existence ... where can it be seen? I would kick myself if I missed a
chance to see the White Banner. On a side note, the extend of Gaelic I know
is that "Mhic Aoidh" and "Mackay" are pronounced "Mick Eye," and that "sgian
dubh" is pronounced "skeen doo." But, how is "Bratach Bhan" pronounced?
;-)
Thanks is given for any and all information!
Lachie Macquarie
mhicaoidh <mhic_...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> writes
There is a replica of the original Bratach Bhan, it was made by Mrs.
Pat Bain and is on display at the Strathnaver Museum, Bettyhill,
Scotland. The original Bratach Bhan is housed in the Royal Museum of
Scotland, Edinburgh. It is considered to be one of Clan Mackay's most
important relics. It was last used in battle in 1433 at the battle of
Druim na Coup, near Tounge, when Ian Aberach, the illegitimate son of
Angus Dhu, led a charge against an overwhelming force of Sutherlands. *
I would pronounce MacKay, Mac Eye but what do I know? Bratach, as seen
but with the ch as in the German ich, bhan would be van.
Here is me thinking MacCoy was am Irish name;
http://www.pdevlinz.btinternet.co.uk/genmccoy.htm
--
Lachie Macquarie, Bod an Deamhan-- smaoineachadh miannach.
Margaret
> is that "Mhic Aoidh" and "Mackay" are pronounced "Mick Eye," and that
"sgian
> dubh" is pronounced "skeen doo." But, how is "Bratach Bhan" pronounced?
> ;-)
Bratach Ban[not Bh] ---- brahtuch ban
Margaret
Dan Jones
Please do stop in at www.clanmackayusa.org and have a look at the photos I
took while in Důthaich Mhic Aoidh (Gaelic for the "Country of Mackay", ).
As well I have some links to Durness and other sites of teh region. If you
want to saty the night in Durness, I can recommend two places, 1 being Smoo
Falls B&B which sits nearly on top of the waterfall inside Smoo Cave (a
place you'll want to visit) as well as Parkhill Hotel owned and operated by
Dottie Mackay. (the B&B is owned and operated by her duaghter's
mother-in-law).
Bettyhill Museum is well worth the time.
Do let the townsfolk know you're a Mackay (McCoy will do fine as it is an
anglized version of Mackay). There is a nice liitle pub not far from Smoo
Cave that is frequented by local Mackays and they like American Mackay
visitors!
I can provide further information if you'd like.
Dan Jones
"mhicaoidh" <mhic_...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:usKd7.232105$Q9.64...@news1.elmhst1.il.home.com...
mhicaoidh
news:o54O04Gq...@lachiemacq.demon.co.uk...
The name is common in Ireland, but did not originate there (save for the
original Scots that came from Ireland to Scotland/Alba originally) as that
link explains. Interestingly enough, I noticed on the back linked page:
<http://www.pdevlinz.btinternet.co.uk/Genealogy.htm>
The MacCoy name is shown with the Clan Mackay Arms (severed stag head,
adjacent daggers, muzzled bears' heads, and all), and have the Clan motto
"manu forti." Although the following paragraph mentions nothing of this
association. Probably because that page only lists information on the
family names as they relate to Ireland. Yet, below the Arms, Scotland is
mentioned with Ulster.
Robert McKay
>From: "Dan Jones" danj...@starband.net
>Date: 8/13/01 8:28 AM Mountain Daylight Time
>Do let the townsfolk know you're a Mackay (McCoy will do fine as it is an
>anglized version of Mackay). There is a nice liitle pub not far from Smoo
>Cave that is frequented by local Mackays and they like American Mackay
>visitors!
Gin Ah iver gae tae Scotland, Ah maun remember that. :)
BTW, those are nice pictures of Mackay country. I visit the site periodically
to keep up on things and found 'em there my last time by.
Robert McKay
AOL - Goffs California, E-mail - goffsca...@aol.com
Conservatism - dangerously explicit common sense
Robert McKay
>Date: 8/13/01 10:39 AM Mountain Daylight Time
> The MacCoy name is shown with the Clan Mackay Arms (severed stag head,
>adjacent daggers, muzzled bears' heads, and all), and have the Clan motto
>"manu forti." Although the following paragraph mentions nothing of this
>association. Probably because that page only lists information on the
>family names as they relate to Ireland. Yet, below the Arms, Scotland is
>mentioned with Ulste
I'm no expert, but I believe the info they've got is inaccurate. The site
speaks of Mackay "home territory being the southern isles of Scotland" yet
everything I've seen points to Clan Mackay being from the northernmost
Highlands of Scotland.
mhicaoidh
news:20010813183135...@mb-md.aol.com...
>
> I'm no expert, but I believe the info they've got is inaccurate. The site
> speaks of Mackay "home territory being the southern isles of Scotland" yet
> everything I've seen points to Clan Mackay being from the northernmost
> Highlands of Scotland.
I noticed that as well. What I attribute that to is the site probably
found in their research (or whomever they are quoting) that the exit point
from Scotland to Ireland was the lower Isles. Much like many families of
Scottish decent in the States think they are of Irish decent because the
tradition of their family history is that they came from Ireland to America.
What they fail to include is that they came to Ireland by way of Scotland.
But, Ireland was the last place they were before they came to America. At
any rate, that site seems to be devoid of really any significant
information. They have McCoy listed as an Irish family name, but show it
with the Scottish Clan Mackay Arms, the Mackay motto, and then give it's
origin as Scotland. Contradictions abound! ;-)
Tiss
you out. The people we talked to, when we were there, were excited and anxious
to talk to us.
You be nice and not unfriendly and they will be the same. I know how you feel,
though. I felt the same. I had been warned that Scots were cold and unfriendly
and they weren't at all. Just be your natural midwestern self. We are probably
closer to the Scots way of thinking. This is where many of our ancestors ended
up.
Tiss
Tiss
Lachie Macquarie wrote:
Maybe it belonged to one of those Scots who went to Ulster. After all, they were
originally Scot.
Tiss
Lachie Macquarie
<Lac...@lachiemacq.demon.co.uk> writes
Bad news following up my own post but Margaret was quite right in
pointing out that white in Gaelic is bàn, not bhàn, which means down or
slope. I should leave it to the experts or get my finger out and learn
it? So it should be bratach bàn. It is also Tongue in Sutherland, the
thing in your head.
You may find the book by Ian Grimble, Clans and Chiefs, quite useful as
it has quite a bit regarding the MacKays. It is published by Birlinn.
Tiss
America, after a long stay in Ulster, referred to themselves as Irish.
Tiss
mhicaoidh
> Some of the problem with those people that went to Ulster, was when they
got to
> America, after a long stay in Ulster, referred to themselves as Irish.
Precisely. I've run into many people with obvious Scots names who
insist it's Irish. I know that there is a lot of overlap due to the
closeness of the region. They may trace their origins back to Ireland, but
a Scottish name is a Scottish name, and somewhere along the line there had
to be a Scottish influence. A perfect example is the name McNeillis. After
I met this person, I asked them if they knew much about their Scottish
heritage. They professed to be Irish. I said okay, and left it at that.
At that time I was really looking into my own heritage, and casually started
looking around for references to their name. I didn't find many, but what I
did find were Scottish references. I never mentioned it again to them
because I feel a value in your heritage is the most important thing, really.
They have that, and that's enough.
Also, I've read numerous accounts that state that the Mac meaning "son
of" is indicative of Scotland due to the importance of the father. While,
in Ireland, they go one generation back and view the grandfather as the
important one. Thus, the O' (as in O'Reilly) means "grandson of." I'm sure
this is not news to any of you here, certainly. But, I run into a lot of
people that don't know this distinction. Many, in America anyway,
erroneously think that the "Mac" means it's Scottish and "Mc" means it's
Irish ... not realizing that they mean the same thing.
S Viemeister
>
> I know some fellow Mackay have been following my thread about bringing a
> kilt back to the US from Scotland through Customs. It occurred to me this
> evening as I was going over my itinerary, that this would be a perfect place
> to flush out a section of my trip. For a portion of my trip, I plan to head
> deep into the Highlands to the traditional stomping grounds of Clan Mackay.
> I had planned to go to Durness because the pictures I have seen from there
> have been absolutely breath taking. Also, I've learned that Tongue is the
> traditional "seat" of the Clan, and that there is an old Mackay castle near
> there. So ....
>
Balnakeil. The have a good selection of books on the area. Ian
Grimble's Mackay trilogy is well written and well researched. I would
also suggest Tom Atkinson's 'The Empty Lands', ISBN 0 946487, Luath
Press; Jim Johnston's 'Tongue and Farr'; Kevin O'Reilly's 'What to See
Around the Kyle of Tongue'; Alan Temperley's 'Tales of the North
Coast'; and 'North Sutherland Studies, ISBN 0 9505084 6 2, from the
Scottish Vernacular Bulidings Working Group.
Places to see - the CofS in Tongue, the Museum in Bettyhill, Dun
Dornagill broch, Rossal (remains of a cleared village, with explanatory
signs), Castle Bharrich, Tongue House (not open to vistors, but the
Countess of Sutherland opens the gardens once a year), Melness House is
also private, but easily seen from the road.... and the scenery is
gorgeous! Make sure to stop in at the Craggan Hotel in Melness on a
Friday or Saturday - there should be quite a few Mackays there.
Sheila Mackay Viemeister
Tiss
the Mc, Mac, & O, which makes it difficult fot the genealogist. One of mine was
a McWilliams who became Williams.
Tiss
mhicaoidh
> I've run into many like that too. Many of them, both Scot & Irish have
dropped
> the Mc, Mac, & O, which makes it difficult fot the genealogist. One of
mine was
> a McWilliams who became Williams.
Yes. It becomes a case where you have to go straight to the birth and
death records as guided by immigration papers right off the bat. If you are
lucky, you can use the modern name as a starting point. But, as you point
out in the case of Williams, your first question would be: What
documentation did you bring with you? I never knew illiteracy and changing
name spellings for the sake of cultural integration (a big reason why a lot
of Irish immigrants dropped the "O") would have such a grand effect on
research attempts.