The Clan Akins - a Scottish Clan in America

Steven Akins

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Oct 9, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/9/99

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As we complete the third year since the charter of our organization,
which was founded on St. Andrew’s Day (November 30), 1997, the Clan Akins
Society stands at the threshold of the new millennium, the 21st century. It
has been more than six centuries since our Clan first emerged as a distinct,
recognizable group of related families bound together by a common descent in
the rugged border country of Scotland. For nearly half that time we have
existed in a state of dormancy brought about by the political turmoil which
has constantly agitated our native homeland and people. But today we stand
once more as a united Clan and have assumed our rightful place among the
other Clans which make up the worldwide Scottish heritage community. After
centuries of silence, our name is once again finally being heard.
This has not come about without both difficulty and controversy
however. There are a persistent few who question our right to take our place
alongside the other Clans of Scotland. Loyalist British conservatism, which
many would justifiably look upon as baseless snobbery, is still a rampant
infection among those Clans who stand at attention and piously mutter the
words to God Save The Queen whenever Britain’s national anthem is played; as
if they have forgiven and forgotten the fact that it was England which has
constantly sought to annihilate the Scottish people and their culture in a
jealous attempt to expand its dominion beyond its own already bloated realm.
To me this is particularly distressing when this sort of British
loyalist attitude is being fostered by Americans, as our ancestors paid
dearly in the sacrifice to make our country free from the tyrannical control
of England’s House of Hanover whose imported German kings sought to deny our
Colonial ancestors their liberty as a free and equitable people. Even today
in Britain, those who are unfortunate enough to live under Queen Elizabeth’s
reign are forced to pay outrageous taxes, and only the very wealthiest of
that country’s citizens own their own homes, while the masses live in rented
flats and work for subsistence wages, having no genuine power to cast a vote
in political elections.
Recently, as our Clan has finally begun to be recognized within the
Scottish heritage community there have been some derogatory comments made by
loyalist detractors whose intent is to denigrate our Clan by arguing that we
are not a “true” Clan as we are not “recognized” by the British monarchy and
have not been thus “ennobled” by it (as if our very existence, which is a
matter of fact, were somehow affected by whether or not we are recognized by
any pretentious monarchical authority). I was even personally confronted
lately by the recently appointed Chief of another Clan who berated me for
serving as the Chief of the Clan Akins without going through the “proper”
British “authorities”. When I pointed out to him that I am an American
citizen and that the British “authorities” to which he was referring had no
jurisdiction in the United States (where I have already been legally
recognized by both my State and Federal government as Akins of that Ilk and
the lawful owner of the undifferenced Arms of the Name of Akins) and that my
fitness to serve in the position as Chief of the Clan Akins was more a
matter for the members of our own Clan to decide than anyone else, he became
irate and accused me of being ignorant, much to the dismay of his own
clanspeople who were sitting at the Clan MacTavish tent where he was
visiting, which I happened to walk past at a recent Highland Games in
Mufreesboro, Tennessee. This audacity was matched by his insistence that the
Clan Akins was not a “legitimate” Clan, to which remark I pointed out that
even in the Court of the Lord Lyon it had been successfully established in
the 1938 case of MacLean of Ardgour vs. MacLean that “Clan and family mean
exactly the same thing”, and that Lord Lyon’s refusal to recognize our
existence as a Clan would be tantamount to the Pope’s refusal to recognize
the existence of the Protestant Church; it simply does not matter whether or
not we are “recognized” as one thing or another by any assumed “authority”,
our existence as a Clan under the accepted definition of the word is simply
a fact, like it or not.
This particular Chief was Dugald MacTavish of MacTavish, a Canadian
citizen now living in the United States, who was recently recognized as
Chief of the Clan MacTavish/Thompson in Scotland, after filing his petition
and paying several thousand dollars to prove his case in Lyon Court in order
to be matriculated as such. This was perhaps the most egregious example of
the sort of baseless Anglophilic snobbery which unfortunately has begun to
infect numerous individuals within the Scottish heritage community who
cannot seem to separate the concepts of Scottish ethnicity and British
political bureaucracy.
We cannot, I suppose, seek to re-establish our place among the other
Scottish Clans without encountering some sorts of controversy stirred up by
the radical loyalists who are enamored of the obsolete and redundant
traditions of the English aristocracy which have been imposed upon the
Scottish people as subjects of the British throne. Even that supreme
hobgoblin the Lord Lyon serves no other purpose than to collect taxes for
the Queen of England by requiring all armigerous Scots in Britain to have
their family coats-of-arms registered for exorbitant fees, despite the fact
that those very arms were assumed by their ancestors centuries ago and have
been handed down from one generation to the next. Who can imagine the idea
of the Lord Lyon telling a Highland Chief of the 1600’s that “he had better
come down to Edinburgh and have his arms registered and he would have to
mortgage his castle to come up with the fee.” Any good Highlander would have
drawn his claymore then and there as his reply to such nonsense.
It was for reasons of this sort that our ancestors left Britain in the
first place, to escape this sort of political oppression over every aspect
of their lives. It is unfortunate that there are those living in this
country today who find themselves nostalgic for that very sort of
bureaucratic totalitarianism in the name of respectability and tradition.
As ethnic Scots, and more importantly as members of the Clan Akins, we have
plenty to be proud of, and as Americans we should be thankful that we no
longer have to live in a land plagued with such “charming” (yet oppressive)
traditions.
Today our Clan stands as a proud part of the ethnic Scottish heritage
community, reorganized after centuries of dormancy, but once again strong
and able to defend itself and its right to take its place among the other
Clans of Gaeldom. Even in Scotland itself, for today the Akins Clan tartan
is being woven in Scottish mills, and Akins Clan crest-badges are being
manufactured by Scottish metalworking firms, for sale to our clanspeople
both in Scotland and abroad. All of this has come about as the result of our
united effort to bring our Clan together once again, and to gain the
recognition which we deserve as a viable part of the Scottish heritage
community.

Steven L. Akins of that Ilk

An t-Acainaich Mor

Note: Should anyone care to share their thoughts and opinions regarding the
comments made about the Clan Akins and its Chief by Dugald MacTavish, I
would encourage you to contact him personally and let him know how you feel
about the affront he has made upon the honor of a fellow Clan. Please
address your comments to:

Dugald MacTavish of MacTavish
3049 Bolin Lane
Sebring, Florida 33870
or
e-mail:
Duna...@aol.com

Steven Akins

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Oct 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/10/99

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I'm American by birth, Scottish by the grace of God. Actually to be an
"American" is to be a citizen of the United States, it has nothing to do
with cultural heritage or ethnicity - it isn't a nationality so much as it
is a political status. I am of Scots ethnicity, therefore I am a Scottish
American (as opposed to Asian American, African American, Italian American,
German American and so on). I know a lot of Scots in Britain don't
understand this concept, but here in America, we don't look at our political
status as being the same as our ethnicity, as everyone in America ultimately
came from some other country where their true national origins lie; except
perhaps for the red-Indians, who are the closest thing to being ethnic
Americans.

Ronald Downes wrote in message <959M3.1350$D33....@ozemail.com.au>...
>I'm getting confused, are you Scottish or American?
>Esther
>Steven Akins <sja...@sonet.net> wrote in message
>news:YdJL3.3356$oq.2...@newsfeed.slurp.net...

Steven Akins

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Oct 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/10/99

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The federal government of the United States department of Social
Security as well as the Bearu of Vital Statistics has recognized my legal
name as being such.
My hereditary coat-of-arms has been duly registerd with the U.S.
Copyright office in my name, thus is also recognized as my personal,
heritable property. "When in Rome do as the Romans."

Steven L. Akins of that Ilk

CAPT Sel. Glen Cook wrote in message
<19991010213453...@ng-ff1.aol.com>...

>> jurisdiction in the United States (where I have already been legally
>>> recognized by both my State and Federal government as Akins of that Ilk
>>and
>>> the lawful owner of the undifferenced Arms of the Name of Akins) and
that
>
>

>Really, the federal govenment recognized a genealogical claim and
recognized
>your right to arms? I was unaware of any department which performed either
>function. I'd be very interested in how that happened.
>
>
>
>Glen Cook
>Coo...@aol.com
>

Steven Akins

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Oct 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/10/99

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Captain Cook,

In regard to your first assumption you are correct. I indeed petitioned
the court to have my name so augumented, and was successful in my petition.
In regard to your second assumption your are only partially correct. My
arms are those which have been borne by my ancestors since before their
arrival in what was then the American colony of Maryland in the first half
of the 18th century. I am merely the first to have them copyrighted through
a branch of the U.S. Federal government. However you are indeed quite
correct in that titles of all sorts can be transferred on a monetary basis,
as this has become increasingly common in Britain, where titles are very
often discretely sold through law firms. One can very easily become "Lord
so-and-so" for several thousand pounds, you might try looking in the
classifieds of "Country Life" or some such publication. It has also been the
case that occassionally the husband of a female heiress will take his wife's
family name, rather than vice-versa, so that their children will inherit the
wife's legacy, I believe that this has happened in a number of Clans as
well. Primogeniture was not originally the deciding factor of Chiefship in
Scottish Clans, but rather tanistry, a system by which the title of Chief
was given by nomination to the most capable candidate, who would thus
inherit the office. Unfortunately the Celtic system was suppressed in favor
of the Anglo-Norman customs of primogeniture which have supplanted the
native traditions of our people as has been the case with so many things. By
the way, the Register of all Arms and Bearings of Scotland which was
instituted through Lyon Court in the reign of Charles II did not come into
play until 1672, nearly thirty years after our family departed for Ulster,
making the Lyon register a somewhat moot point in the case of our Clan.
Although I had intended to post my original editorial on this ng for
the benefit of any of my own Clan whom it might interest, it has evidently
been viewed by many outside of my Clan who deem it to be of a controversial
nature, as such matters no doubt are wont to be. However, for the purpose of
offering a more comprehensive account of all these things. I would refer you
to the Clan Akins web-site at:
http://www.angelfire.com/ar/clanakins/society.html

Steven L. Akins of that Ilk

CAPT Sel. Glen Cook wrote in message

<19991010230525...@ng-ff1.aol.com>...
>So, let me get this right. You changed your legal name to "Akins of that
Ilk"?
> Otherwise, the federal government has only allowed you to use the name of
>Steven Akins, which has nothing to do with claiming a genealogical descent
as
>chief of a clan, or even being descended from someone named Akins.
>
>Secondly, it would appear that if you assumed these arms (designed them or
had
>them made for you by a commercial vendor) you might be able to copyright
them,
>but then I could do the same with my arms and call myself Chief of Clan
Cook.
>Owning arms does not make one a chief unless proof is given that one has
the
>right to the chiefly arms by descent.
>Further, copyrights can be sold. So, by your analysis, if you sold your
arms
>to someone named Smith who was willing to change her name to Akins, she
would
>then be chief of the clan.
>
>Perhaps you could post your genealogical descent from someone who claimed
to be
>a chief or chieftan of Akins.

>Glen Cook
>Coo...@aol.com
>

Steven Akins

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Oct 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/10/99

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Steven Akins

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Oct 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/10/99

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Esther,

What is it to "be an American?" I am afraid that you fail to understand
the difference between ethnicity and place of residence. One does not lose
their ethnicity by moving to another country, nor by becoming a citizen of
it. I am an American as well as a Scot; just as many who inhabit that fine
old country north of the English border are British as well as Scots. You
see my dear, the one thing is political, while the other is genetic. You
evidently have a hard time dealing with pluralities.

Ronald Downes wrote in message ...
>Then by all means do as the 'Romans' do and be American.

>Esther
>
>Steven Akins <sja...@sonet.net> wrote in message

>news:yHbM3.4616$oq.2...@newsfeed.slurp.net...

Steven Akins

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Oct 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/10/99

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Necalban,
I certainly haven't any problem with Mr. Fraser, not being an Armstrong
nor an Elliott, I wouldn't expect to find much of pertenance in respect to
my Name in his book. Perhaps I made too much of a broad use of the term
"border country", as our Clan inhabited a wide area of Scotland, ranging
from Fifeshire, Angusshire, Perthshire, Dunbartonshire, Aberdeenshire,
Renfrewshire, Stirlingshire, Lanarkshire, Ayrshire and the Lothians. You
might find the following very brief excerpt of the tabulation of parish
register records for our Clan to be of some use in making a better
determination of the specific areas in question:

Jhone Akin – son of David Akin; ch. 8/28/1575, Perth, Perthshire, Scotland.
John Akin – son of William Akin & Meg Gibson; ch. 7/9/1585, Dunfermline,
Fifeshire, Scotland.
Jon. Aiken – son of Robert Aiken & Isobel Cyming; ch 12/22/1611, Glasgow,
Lanarkshire, Scotland.
John Aiken – son of John Aiken & Isobel Cummings; b. 2/1614, Glasgow,
Lanarkshire, Scotland.
Jhone Aikin – son of Jhone Aikin; ch. 4/17/1615, Perth, Perthshire,
Scotland.
Jhone Akin – son of William Akin; ch. 4/11/1615, Errol, Perthshire,
Scotland.
John Eckin – son of Johne Eckin & Helen Gib; ch. 4/27/1617, Leslie,
Fifeshire, Scotland.
Johne Aiking – son of Johne Aiking & Agnes Wilsoune; ch. 4/3/1617, High
Church, Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
John Aikine – son of Johne Aikine & Janet Inglis; ch. 11/30/1619,
Dunfermline, Fifeshire, Scotland.
Johne Aiking – son of James Aiking & Margaret Paull; ch. 8/20/1620, High
Church, Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
Johne Aikin – son of Johne Aikin; ch. 4/10/1621, Perth, Perthshire,
Scotland.
Jon. Aikin – son of Patrick Aikin & Bessie Abercrumbie; ch. 12/1/1622,
Dalkeith, Midlothian, Scotland.
John Aiken – son of John Aiken & Isobell Bowman; c. 9/3/1626, Kirkcaldy,
Fifeshire, Scotland.
John Aiken – son of John Aiken & Janet Watson; b. 11/10/1626, Glasgow,
Lanarkshire, Scotland.
Jon. Aiken – son of Jon. Aiken & Margaret Patersone; ch. 4/10/1628, Brechin,
Angusshire, Scotland.
John Aiken – son of Mathew Aiken & Agnes Eghlington; b. 9/4/1628, Glasgow,
Lanarkshire, Scotland.
Johne Aikine – son of Thomas Akine & Effie Andersone; ch. 3/22/1629,
Clackmannan, Clackmannanshire, Scotland.
Johne Aikin – son of Alexander Aikin & Janet Bell; ch. 11/19/1624, St.
Andrews & St. Leonards, Fifeshire, Scotland.
John Aikine – son of William Aikine & Janet Clerk; ch. 4/16/1629,
Dumfermline, Fifeshire, Scotland.
Johne Aikin – son of Alexander Aikin & Marie Gib; ch. 5/15/1631, St. Andrews
& St. Leonards, Fifeshire, Scotland.
John Aiken – son of Alexander Aiken & Janet Donaldson; ch. 5/15/1636,
Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
John Aiken – son of Hugh Aiken & Barbara Broun; ch. 6/5/1638, Glasgow,
Lanarkshire, Scotland.
Johne Aiken – son of James Aiken & Helen Taylor; ch. 10/12/1644, Trinity
Gask, Perthshire, Scotland.
John Aiken – son of James Aiken & Marion Muirhead; b. 9/24/1644, Falkirk,
Stirlingshire, Scotland.
John Aiken – son of Duncan Aiken & Margaret Ferguson; b. 1/21/1647, Glasgow,
Lanarkshire, Scotland.
Jon. Aikin – son of Jon. Aikin; ch. 6/22/1647, Perth, Perthshire, Scotland.
Johne Aikin – son of Ninian Aikin & Issoble Wallace; ch. 7/2/1648, Dysart,
Fifeshire, Scotland.
John Aiken – son of James Aiken & Isabel Barn; b. 4/24/1650, Falkirk,
Stirlingshire, Scotland.
John Aikin – son of George Aikin & Margaret Stewart; ch: 5/26/1652, St.
Ninians, Stirlingshire, Scotland.
John Aikin – son of John Aikin & Issobel Scot; ch. 9/13/1653, High Church,
Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
John Aikin – son of Archibald Aikin & Elspet Bachop; ch. 7/3/1653, St.
Ninians, Stirlingshire, Scotland.
John Aiken – son of Robert Aiken & Jonet Stein; ch. 6/19/1654, Glasgow,
Lanarkshire, Scotland.
John Aiken – son of Robert Aiken & Bessie Young; b. 1654, Falkirk,
Stirlingshire, Scotland.
John Akine – Umphra Aikine; ch. 6/3/1659, Kilbarchan, Renfrewshire,
Scotland.
John Aikin – son of John Aikin & Elspit Taylor; ch. 10/29/1660; Brechin,
Angusshire, Scotland.
John Aikine – son of George Aikine & Margaret Cawie; ch. 3/20/1664, High
Church, Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
John Aiken – son of John Aiken; b. 11/7/1665, Lanark, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
Johne Aiken – son of William Aiken; ch. 1/14/1666, Kembeck, Fifeshire,
Scotland.
Johne Aikine – son of John Aikine & Jonat Schanks; ch. 3/25/1666, High
Church, Glasgow, Scotland.
John Aikine – son of Robert Aikine & Euphame Colyiar; ch. 9/1/1667,
Auchterrader, Fifeshire, Scotland.
John Aiken – son of David & Janet Aiken; ch. 10/17/1669, St. Ninians,
Stirlingshire, Scotland.
John Aiken – son of Alexander Aiken & Effie Whyt; ch. 3/2/1670, Brechin,
Angusshire, Scotland.
John Aikine – son of Thomas Aikine & Jonet Casse; ch. 10/16/1670, Hamilton,
Lanarkshire, Scotland.
John Aikin – son of Alexander Aikin; ch. 5/19/1672, Old Machar,
Aberdeenshire, Scotland.
John Aikine – son of James Aikine & Issobell Tannehill; ch. 1/20/1672, High
Church, Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
Johne Aikine – son of George Aikine & Euphame Rose; ch. 12/14/1672, Perth,
Perthshire, Scotland.
John Aiken – son of John Aiken & Barbara Murray; b. 7/20/1673, Cambuslang,
Lanarkshire, Scotland.
John Aikine – son of Matthew Aikine & Agnes Orre; ch. 11/22/1673,
Kilbarchan, Renfrewshire, Scotland.
John Aiken – son of David Aiken & Agnes Symson, ch. 4/25/1674, Brechin,
Angusshire, Scotland.
John Akin – son of John Akin; ch. 6/27/1675, Derry Cathedral, Templemore,
Derry, Ireland.

As to Gaelic, its use, spelling, and defination of words I must confess
that I have but little knowledge, apart from its words being given to a
variety of different spellings at different periods in history, and as with
any language, it words very often have more than one meaning, as you have so
well illustrated in your humorous fashion. I once read that it is considered
improper to pronounce the word Celt as "Kelt", because this word was used to
mean a dead (and usually smelly) fish in Gaelic; however I still cannot
bring myself to pronounce it as "Selt" as some would have me to.

Neacalban1 wrote in message
<19991010211904...@ng-ce1.aol.com>...

>>" more than six centuries since our Clan first emerged as a distinct,
>recognizable group of related families bound together by a common descent
in
>the rugged border country of Scotland. For nearly half that time we have
>existed in a state of dormancy"
>

>That must be why George MacDonald Fraser(author of The Steel Bonnets-The
Story
>of the Anglo-Scottish Border Reivers)makes no mention of the Akins? I guess
>they didn't bother anyone and weren't bothered in return??

>
>" if they have forgiven and forgotten the fact that it was England which
has
> constantly sought to annihilate the Scottish people and their culture "
>

>Its always nice to keep things in black and white, huh? Sometimes the Scots
>were their own worst enemies, and while the English were frequently
involved,
>the Scottish Lords were frquently willing accomplices, such as with the
>Clearances.The English could not have done it without help.
>I'll admit I'm not big on "God Save the Queen".
>
>I belong to my clan organization, and it is fun, and I once spoke to my
clan
>chief on the phone, but if I him/her, I'll not be bowing and scraping.
>But it does sound a bit like you're really irritated about not being
allowed to
>sit at the same table.

>>> Steven L. Akins of that Ilk
>>>>
>>>> An t-Acainaich Mor
>

>As you point out, about 6 centuries- that puts y'all back to 1300, and most
>people agree that Gaelic had already begun to recede from the Borders some
time
>before that. So its pretty unlikely that any chief of the Akins would have
>styled him/herself in Gaelic. Kyleakin, the village on Skye. across from
Kyle
>of Lochalsh, would in theory derive from Caol Acain, the Strait of Acan,
but
>the strait is known as Caol Loch Aillse, or more usually, An Caol. another
name
>for Kyleakin is "Scalpa a'chaoil" but whether thats the name for another
place
>in Scotland, I can't say. I heard there may be some Akins in Skye.
> Nonetheless, using An t-Acainaich Mor as a title strikes me as being
just
>as pretentious as those you are accusing.
>in addition, "acain" means "moan,sob,sigh,complaint", and its a feminine
>gendered noun, so it would be An Acain Mh/or(the great complaint), or, you
>could use An t-Acainiche M/or - The Great Complainer.acainiche in this
case
>being masculine.
>
>

Ronald Downes

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Oct 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/11/99

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I'm getting confused, are you Scottish or American?

Esther
Steven Akins <sja...@sonet.net> wrote in message

news:YdJL3.3356$oq.2...@newsfeed.slurp.net...

Neacalban1

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Oct 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/11/99

to

>" more than six centuries since our Clan first emerged as a distinct,
recognizable group of related families bound together by a common descent in
the rugged border country of Scotland. For nearly half that time we have
existed in a state of dormancy"

That must be why George MacDonald Fraser(author of The Steel Bonnets-The Story

of the Anglo-Scottish Border Reivers)makes no mention of the Akins? I guess
they didn't bother anyone and weren't bothered in return??

" if they have forgiven and forgotten the fact that it was England which has

constantly sought to annihilate the Scottish people and their culture "

Its always nice to keep things in black and white, huh? Sometimes the Scots

were their own worst enemies, and while the English were frequently involved,
the Scottish Lords were frquently willing accomplices, such as with the
Clearances.The English could not have done it without help.
I'll admit I'm not big on "God Save the Queen".

I belong to my clan organization, and it is fun, and I once spoke to my clan
chief on the phone, but if I him/her, I'll not be bowing and scraping.
But it does sound a bit like you're really irritated about not being allowed to
sit at the same table.

>> Steven L. Akins of that Ilk
>>>
>>> An t-Acainaich Mor

As you point out, about 6 centuries- that puts y'all back to 1300, and most

CAPT Sel. Glen Cook

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Oct 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/11/99

to

> jurisdiction in the United States (where I have already been legally
>> recognized by both my State and Federal government as Akins of that Ilk
>and
>> the lawful owner of the undifferenced Arms of the Name of Akins) and that

Ronald Downes

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Oct 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/11/99

to

However you like to style yourself and the definition you may prefer to use;
you are American. Accept it and get on with your life.
Acknowledge your past and that of your ancestors by all means just don't try
and be something you are not.

Esther

Steven Akins <sja...@sonet.net> wrote in message

news:xm9M3.4449$oq.2...@newsfeed.slurp.net...

Ronald Downes

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Oct 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/11/99

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Then by all means do as the 'Romans' do and be American.

Esther

Steven Akins <sja...@sonet.net> wrote in message

news:yHbM3.4616$oq.2...@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> The federal government of the United States department of Social
> Security as well as the Bearu of Vital Statistics has recognized my legal
> name as being such.
> My hereditary coat-of-arms has been duly registerd with the U.S.
> Copyright office in my name, thus is also recognized as my personal,
> heritable property. "When in Rome do as the Romans."
>

> Steven L. Akins of that Ilk
>
>

> CAPT Sel. Glen Cook wrote in message
> <19991010213453...@ng-ff1.aol.com>...

> >> jurisdiction in the United States (where I have already been legally
> >>> recognized by both my State and Federal government as Akins of that
Ilk
> >>and
> >>> the lawful owner of the undifferenced Arms of the Name of Akins) and
> that
> >
> >

CAPT Sel. Glen Cook

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Oct 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/11/99

to

So, let me get this right. You changed your legal name to "Akins of that Ilk"?
Otherwise, the federal government has only allowed you to use the name of
Steven Akins, which has nothing to do with claiming a genealogical descent as
chief of a clan, or even being descended from someone named Akins.

Secondly, it would appear that if you assumed these arms (designed them or had
them made for you by a commercial vendor) you might be able to copyright them,
but then I could do the same with my arms and call myself Chief of Clan Cook.
Owning arms does not make one a chief unless proof is given that one has the
right to the chiefly arms by descent.
Further, copyrights can be sold. So, by your analysis, if you sold your arms
to someone named Smith who was willing to change her name to Akins, she would
then be chief of the clan.

Perhaps you could post your genealogical descent from someone who claimed to be
a chief or chieftan of Akins.

> The federal government of the United States department of Social
>Security as well as the Bearu of Vital Statistics has recognized my legal
>name as being such.
> My hereditary coat-of-arms has been duly registerd with the U.S.
>Copyright office in my name, thus is also recognized as my personal,
>heritable property. "When in Rome do as the Romans."
>
>Steven L. Akins of that Ilk
>
>
>CAPT Sel. Glen Cook wrote in message
><19991010213453...@ng-ff1.aol.com>...
>>> jurisdiction in the United States (where I have already been legally
>>>> recognized by both my State and Federal government as Akins of that Ilk
>>>and
>>>> the lawful owner of the undifferenced Arms of the Name of Akins) and
>that
>>
>>
>>Really, the federal govenment recognized a genealogical claim and
>recognized
>>your right to arms? I was unaware of any department which performed either
>>function. I'd be very interested in how that happened.
>>
>>
>>
>>Glen Cook
>>Coo...@aol.com
>>

Glen Cook
Coo...@aol.com

Ronald Downes

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Oct 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/11/99

to

What is to misunderstand, your ancestors came to America in the 1700's, you
are an american with a mixed heritage, assuming that all your ancestors did
not come from the one people group. that makes you an American any way you
look at it. Be proud of it and your ancestory. However it still does not
make you Scottish.

However you choose to spend your money, and in whatever court you visit you
were still born in America. The law or legal system cannot change that. If
you want to argue about it take it up with your parents.

I am a Scot, born in Scotland of Scottish parents and grandparents and so
the list goes on. My children were born in Australia and have an Australian
father of Irish descent. They too have a mixed heritage and are proud of it
and of being Australian. I am not an Australian citizen, I do not agree
with buying citizenship.

By the way I am not your anything.
Esther

Steven Akins <sja...@sonet.net> wrote in message

news:_vdM3.4710$oq.2...@newsfeed.slurp.net...

> Esther,
>
> What is it to "be an American?" I am afraid that you fail to
understand
> the difference between ethnicity and place of residence. One does not lose
> their ethnicity by moving to another country, nor by becoming a citizen of
> it. I am an American as well as a Scot; just as many who inhabit that fine
> old country north of the English border are British as well as Scots. You
> see my dear, the one thing is political, while the other is genetic. You
> evidently have a hard time dealing with pluralities.
>
>

> Ronald Downes wrote in message ...

> >Then by all means do as the 'Romans' do and be American.

> >Esther
> >
> >Steven Akins <sja...@sonet.net> wrote in message

> >news:yHbM3.4616$oq.2...@newsfeed.slurp.net...

> >> The federal government of the United States department of Social
> >> Security as well as the Bearu of Vital Statistics has recognized my
legal
> >> name as being such.
> >> My hereditary coat-of-arms has been duly registerd with the U.S.
> >> Copyright office in my name, thus is also recognized as my personal,
> >> heritable property. "When in Rome do as the Romans."
> >>

> >> Steven L. Akins of that Ilk
> >>
> >>

> >> CAPT Sel. Glen Cook wrote in message
> >> <19991010213453...@ng-ff1.aol.com>...

> >> >> jurisdiction in the United States (where I have already been legally
> >> >>> recognized by both my State and Federal government as Akins of that
> >Ilk
> >> >>and
> >> >>> the lawful owner of the undifferenced Arms of the Name of Akins)
and
> >> that
> >> >
> >> >

Ronald Downes

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Oct 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/11/99

to

Any yet again you show your self to be American. Face up to it.

Esther
Steven Akins <sja...@sonet.net> wrote in message

news:kRdM3.4738$oq.3...@newsfeed.slurp.net...

> Necalban,
> I certainly haven't any problem with Mr. Fraser, not being an
Armstrong
> nor an Elliott, I wouldn't expect to find much of pertenance in respect to
> my Name in his book. Perhaps I made too much of a broad use of the term
> "border country", as our Clan inhabited a wide area of Scotland, ranging
> from Fifeshire, Angusshire, Perthshire, Dunbartonshire, Aberdeenshire,
> Renfrewshire, Stirlingshire, Lanarkshire, Ayrshire and the Lothians. You
> might find the following very brief excerpt of the tabulation of parish
> register records for our Clan to be of some use in making a better
> determination of the specific areas in question:
>

> Jhone Akin - son of David Akin; ch. 8/28/1575, Perth, Perthshire,
Scotland.
> John Akin - son of William Akin & Meg Gibson; ch. 7/9/1585, Dunfermline,
> Fifeshire, Scotland.
> Jon. Aiken - son of Robert Aiken & Isobel Cyming; ch 12/22/1611, Glasgow,
> Lanarkshire, Scotland.
> John Aiken - son of John Aiken & Isobel Cummings; b. 2/1614, Glasgow,
> Lanarkshire, Scotland.
> Jhone Aikin - son of Jhone Aikin; ch. 4/17/1615, Perth, Perthshire,
> Scotland.
> Jhone Akin - son of William Akin; ch. 4/11/1615, Errol, Perthshire,
> Scotland.
> John Eckin - son of Johne Eckin & Helen Gib; ch. 4/27/1617, Leslie,
> Fifeshire, Scotland.
> Johne Aiking - son of Johne Aiking & Agnes Wilsoune; ch. 4/3/1617, High
> Church, Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
> John Aikine - son of Johne Aikine & Janet Inglis; ch. 11/30/1619,
> Dunfermline, Fifeshire, Scotland.
> Johne Aiking - son of James Aiking & Margaret Paull; ch. 8/20/1620, High
> Church, Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
> Johne Aikin - son of Johne Aikin; ch. 4/10/1621, Perth, Perthshire,
> Scotland.
> Jon. Aikin - son of Patrick Aikin & Bessie Abercrumbie; ch. 12/1/1622,
> Dalkeith, Midlothian, Scotland.
> John Aiken - son of John Aiken & Isobell Bowman; c. 9/3/1626, Kirkcaldy,
> Fifeshire, Scotland.
> John Aiken - son of John Aiken & Janet Watson; b. 11/10/1626, Glasgow,
> Lanarkshire, Scotland.
> Jon. Aiken - son of Jon. Aiken & Margaret Patersone; ch. 4/10/1628,
Brechin,
> Angusshire, Scotland.
> John Aiken - son of Mathew Aiken & Agnes Eghlington; b. 9/4/1628, Glasgow,
> Lanarkshire, Scotland.
> Johne Aikine - son of Thomas Akine & Effie Andersone; ch. 3/22/1629,
> Clackmannan, Clackmannanshire, Scotland.
> Johne Aikin - son of Alexander Aikin & Janet Bell; ch. 11/19/1624, St.

> Andrews & St. Leonards, Fifeshire, Scotland.

> John Aikine - son of William Aikine & Janet Clerk; ch. 4/16/1629,
> Dumfermline, Fifeshire, Scotland.
> Johne Aikin - son of Alexander Aikin & Marie Gib; ch. 5/15/1631, St.

Andrews
> & St. Leonards, Fifeshire, Scotland.

> John Aiken - son of Alexander Aiken & Janet Donaldson; ch. 5/15/1636,
> Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
> John Aiken - son of Hugh Aiken & Barbara Broun; ch. 6/5/1638, Glasgow,
> Lanarkshire, Scotland.
> Johne Aiken - son of James Aiken & Helen Taylor; ch. 10/12/1644, Trinity
> Gask, Perthshire, Scotland.
> John Aiken - son of James Aiken & Marion Muirhead; b. 9/24/1644, Falkirk,
> Stirlingshire, Scotland.
> John Aiken - son of Duncan Aiken & Margaret Ferguson; b. 1/21/1647,
Glasgow,
> Lanarkshire, Scotland.
> Jon. Aikin - son of Jon. Aikin; ch. 6/22/1647, Perth, Perthshire,
Scotland.
> Johne Aikin - son of Ninian Aikin & Issoble Wallace; ch. 7/2/1648, Dysart,
> Fifeshire, Scotland.
> John Aiken - son of James Aiken & Isabel Barn; b. 4/24/1650, Falkirk,
> Stirlingshire, Scotland.
> John Aikin - son of George Aikin & Margaret Stewart; ch: 5/26/1652, St.
> Ninians, Stirlingshire, Scotland.
> John Aikin - son of John Aikin & Issobel Scot; ch. 9/13/1653, High Church,
> Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
> John Aikin - son of Archibald Aikin & Elspet Bachop; ch. 7/3/1653, St.
> Ninians, Stirlingshire, Scotland.
> John Aiken - son of Robert Aiken & Jonet Stein; ch. 6/19/1654, Glasgow,
> Lanarkshire, Scotland.
> John Aiken - son of Robert Aiken & Bessie Young; b. 1654, Falkirk,
> Stirlingshire, Scotland.
> John Akine - Umphra Aikine; ch. 6/3/1659, Kilbarchan, Renfrewshire,
> Scotland.
> John Aikin - son of John Aikin & Elspit Taylor; ch. 10/29/1660; Brechin,
> Angusshire, Scotland.
> John Aikine - son of George Aikine & Margaret Cawie; ch. 3/20/1664, High
> Church, Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
> John Aiken - son of John Aiken; b. 11/7/1665, Lanark, Lanarkshire,
Scotland.
> Johne Aiken - son of William Aiken; ch. 1/14/1666, Kembeck, Fifeshire,
> Scotland.
> Johne Aikine - son of John Aikine & Jonat Schanks; ch. 3/25/1666, High
> Church, Glasgow, Scotland.
> John Aikine - son of Robert Aikine & Euphame Colyiar; ch. 9/1/1667,
> Auchterrader, Fifeshire, Scotland.
> John Aiken - son of David & Janet Aiken; ch. 10/17/1669, St. Ninians,
> Stirlingshire, Scotland.
> John Aiken - son of Alexander Aiken & Effie Whyt; ch. 3/2/1670, Brechin,
> Angusshire, Scotland.
> John Aikine - son of Thomas Aikine & Jonet Casse; ch. 10/16/1670,
Hamilton,
> Lanarkshire, Scotland.
> John Aikin - son of Alexander Aikin; ch. 5/19/1672, Old Machar,
> Aberdeenshire, Scotland.
> John Aikine - son of James Aikine & Issobell Tannehill; ch. 1/20/1672,

High
> Church, Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland.

> Johne Aikine - son of George Aikine & Euphame Rose; ch. 12/14/1672, Perth,
> Perthshire, Scotland.
> John Aiken - son of John Aiken & Barbara Murray; b. 7/20/1673, Cambuslang,
> Lanarkshire, Scotland.
> John Aikine - son of Matthew Aikine & Agnes Orre; ch. 11/22/1673,
> Kilbarchan, Renfrewshire, Scotland.
> John Aiken - son of David Aiken & Agnes Symson, ch. 4/25/1674, Brechin,
> Angusshire, Scotland.
> John Akin - son of John Akin; ch. 6/27/1675, Derry Cathedral, Templemore,

Neacalban1

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Oct 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/11/99

to

> I once read that it is considered
>improper to pronounce the word Celt as "Kelt", because this word was used to
>mean a dead (and usually smelly) fish in Gaelic; however I still cannot
>bring myself to pronounce it as "Selt" as some would have me to

Well, I refuse to- as there are no soft C's in any of the Celtic Languages, as
far as I know(although I freely confess only to knowing Gaelic with any
proficiency ;-)

Steven Akins

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Oct 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/11/99

to

Esther,

Again you flaunt your incapacity to comprehend the simplest of facts
without any degree of intellectual excercise. To quote from the Southron
bard, your words are "like a tale told by a madman, full of sound and fury,
signifying nothing."

Steven Akins of that Ilk

Ronald Downes wrote in message ...

>What is to misunderstand, your ancestors came to America in the 1700's, you
>are an american with a mixed heritage, assuming that all your ancestors did
>not come from the one people group. that makes you an American any way you
>look at it. Be proud of it and your ancestory. However it still does not
>make you Scottish.
>
>However you choose to spend your money, and in whatever court you visit you
>were still born in America. The law or legal system cannot change that. If
>you want to argue about it take it up with your parents.
>
>I am a Scot, born in Scotland of Scottish parents and grandparents and so
>the list goes on. My children were born in Australia and have an
Australian
>father of Irish descent. They too have a mixed heritage and are proud of
it
>and of being Australian. I am not an Australian citizen, I do not agree
>with buying citizenship.
>
>By the way I am not your anything.

>Esther
>
>
>
>Steven Akins <sja...@sonet.net> wrote in message

>news:_vdM3.4710$oq.2...@newsfeed.slurp.net...
>> Esther,
>>
>> What is it to "be an American?" I am afraid that you fail to
>understand
>> the difference between ethnicity and place of residence. One does not
lose
>> their ethnicity by moving to another country, nor by becoming a citizen
of
>> it. I am an American as well as a Scot; just as many who inhabit that
fine
>> old country north of the English border are British as well as Scots. You
>> see my dear, the one thing is political, while the other is genetic. You
>> evidently have a hard time dealing with pluralities.
>>
>>
>> Ronald Downes wrote in message ...
>> >Then by all means do as the 'Romans' do and be American.

>> >Esther
>> >
>> >Steven Akins <sja...@sonet.net> wrote in message

>> >news:yHbM3.4616$oq.2...@newsfeed.slurp.net...
>> >> The federal government of the United States department of Social
>> >> Security as well as the Bearu of Vital Statistics has recognized my
>legal
>> >> name as being such.
>> >> My hereditary coat-of-arms has been duly registerd with the U.S.
>> >> Copyright office in my name, thus is also recognized as my personal,
>> >> heritable property. "When in Rome do as the Romans."
>> >>

>> >> Steven L. Akins of that Ilk
>> >>
>> >>

>> >> CAPT Sel. Glen Cook wrote in message
>> >> <19991010213453...@ng-ff1.aol.com>...

>> >> >> jurisdiction in the United States (where I have already been
legally
>> >> >>> recognized by both my State and Federal government as Akins of
that
>> >Ilk
>> >> >>and
>> >> >>> the lawful owner of the undifferenced Arms of the Name of Akins)
>and
>> >> that
>> >> >
>> >> >

CAPT Sel. Glen Cook

unread,

Oct 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/11/99

to

>In regard to your first assumption you are correct. I indeed petitioned
>the court to have my name so augumented, and was successful in my petition.

However, the comment in your original post, that you had been "recognized as
Akins of that Ilk" by Federal and State entities implies that a recognition of
status, not name. It is as if I changed my legal name to Captain Cook, and
then stated that the Federal government had recognized me as a Captain. Your
position is at best disengenuous, if not misleading.

>My arms are those which have been borne by my ancestors

I did not see a posting on your web site showing descent from one entitled to
use those arms, nor did I see an indication of how you assumed the chiefship
pursuant to tanistry (even if this were still a valid concept). Again, it
would be helpful to your cause to show your descent from such, or even from a
Scot.

Glen Cook
Coo...@aol.com

Steven Akins

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Oct 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/11/99

to

You seem to be confused as to my point. I am not "making a claim" so
much as filling a long vacant position and trying to do it in such a way as
is provided for by the country of which I happen to be a citizen, in
contrast to the laws of a country which my family left long ago. Since the
reorganization of our Clan some three years ago, we have been supported by
more than 100 member families who have joined as supporting members of the
Clan association, none of whom have complained or expressed any
dissatisfaction with my leadership, nor suggested that I should be replaced
by a Lyon Court appointed candidate. In fact, there has been no one who has
expressed any interest whatsoever in challenging to overtake the Chiefship
in such a manner. Our Clan organization continues to grow and develop, and
we are slowly gaining some recognition through our efforts. Our interest in
the preservation of our Clan's cultural heritage and its customs and
traditions is genuine, and is felt by all of our members, most of whom
reside here in America, where the interest in such things appears to be far
greater and more appreciated than in Britain iteself. As I told someone
else, most people do not appreciate what they have until it is in danger of
being lost. My interest is largely in seeing that our Clan is reorganized
and that our heritage is preserved, rather than filling some seat on the
Standing Council of Scottish Chiefs. I have never sought their recognition,
nor do I intend to. I am only interested in returning the long lost legacy
of a cultural heritage to my people.

Sincerely,

Steven Akins of that Ilk

CAPT Sel. Glen Cook wrote in message
<19991011104432...@ng-fg1.aol.com>...

Clan MacNeil in Canada Webmaster

unread,

Oct 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/11/99

to

Steven Akins wrote:
>
>The federal government of the United States department of Social
>Security as well as the Bearu of Vital Statistics has recognized my >legal name as being such.
>
>My hereditary coat-of-arms has been duly registerd with the U.S.
>Copyright office in my name, thus is also recognized as my personal,
>heritable property. "When in Rome do as the Romans."
>

Well Steven, you might want to take everything one step further and
register your "arms" with the American College of Heraldry. That would
mean just as much as your registration with the U.S. Copyright Office.
My meaning here is: The American College of Heraldry has no legal
status in the United States (although they will be more than happy to
take your money to register your arms), and unless your "arms" are a
brand new design, anyone with access to records showing that they
existed and wer in use by others before you "copyrighted" them can
overturn your copyright.

BTW, if in fact you are bearing the rightful arms of the Chief of a
Scottish Clan in Scotland, you can be charged with a crime by the Lyon
Court. I believe that the Lord Lyon still has the power to have a
persons dangly bits stricken off. . .

Cheers,
--
Charles R. Kaiser
Clan MacNeil in Canada Web Services

http://clanmacneil.ca

"Vincere Vel Mori" "Buaidh No Bas"
Any way you say it, it's "Conquer or Die"

"Cuimhnich Air Na Daoine o'n D'thaing, thu."
- Remember the men from whom you have come.

Steven Akins

unread,

Oct 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/11/99

to

You seem to be confused as to my point. I am not +ACI-making a claim+ACI- so

much as filling a long vacant position and trying to do it in such a way as
is provided for by the country of which I happen to be a citizen, in
contrast to the laws of a country which my family left long ago. Since the
reorganization of our Clan some three years ago, we have been supported by
more than 100 member families who have joined as supporting members of the
Clan association, none of whom have complained or expressed any
dissatisfaction with my leadership, nor suggested that I should be replaced
by a Lyon Court appointed candidate. In fact, there has been no one who has
expressed any interest whatsoever in challenging to overtake the Chiefship
in such a manner. Our Clan organization continues to grow and develop, and
we are slowly gaining some recognition through our efforts. Our interest in
the preservation of our Clan's cultural heritage and its customs and
traditions is genuine, and is felt by all of our members, most of whom
reside here in America, where the interest in such things appears to be far
greater and more appreciated than in Britain iteself. As I told someone
else, most people do not appreciate what they have until it is in danger of
being lost. My interest is largely in seeing that our Clan is reorganized
and that our heritage is preserved, rather than filling some seat on the
Standing Council of Scottish Chiefs. I have never sought their recognition,
nor do I intend to. I am only interested in returning the long lost legacy
of a cultural heritage to my people.

Clan MacNeil in Canada Webmaster wrote in message
+ADw-3802079D.A824C33B+AEA-clanmacneil.ca+AD4-...
+AD4-
+AD4-
+AD4-Steven Akins wrote:
+AD4APg-
+AD4APg-The federal government of the United States department of Social
+AD4APg-Security as well as the Bearu of Vital Statistics has recognized my +AD4-legal
name as being such.
+AD4APg-
+AD4APg-My hereditary coat-of-arms has been duly registerd with the U.S.
+AD4APg-Copyright office in my name, thus is also recognized as my personal,
+AD4APg-heritable property. +ACI-When in Rome do as the Romans.+ACI-
+AD4APg-
+AD4-
+AD4-Well Steven, you might want to take everything one step further and
+AD4-register your +ACI-arms+ACI- with the American College of Heraldry. That would
+AD4-mean just as much as your registration with the U.S. Copyright Office.
+AD4-My meaning here is: The American College of Heraldry has no legal
+AD4-status in the United States (although they will be more than happy to
+AD4-take your money to register your arms), and unless your +ACI-arms+ACI- are a
+AD4-brand new design, anyone with access to records showing that they
+AD4-existed and wer in use by others before you +ACI-copyrighted+ACI- them can
+AD4-overturn your copyright.
+AD4-
+AD4-BTW, if in fact you are bearing the rightful arms of the Chief of a
+AD4-Scottish Clan in Scotland, you can be charged with a crime by the Lyon
+AD4-Court. I believe that the Lord Lyon still has the power to have a
+AD4-persons dangly bits stricken off. . .
+AD4-
+AD4-Cheers,
+AD4---
+AD4-Charles R. Kaiser
+AD4-Clan MacNeil in Canada Web Services
+AD4-
+AD4-http://clanmacneil.ca
+AD4-
+AD4AIg-Vincere Vel Mori+ACI- +ACI-Buaidh No Bas+ACI-
+AD4-Any way you say it, it's +ACI-Conquer or Die+ACI-
+AD4-
+AD4AIg-Cuimhnich Air Na Daoine o'n D'thaing, thu.+ACI-
+AD4- - Remember the men from whom you have come.

Lesley Robertson

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Oct 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/11/99

to

Clan MacNeil in Canada Webmaster <webm...@clanmacneil.ca> wrote in message
news:3802079D...@clanmacneil.ca...

>
> BTW, if in fact you are bearing the rightful arms of the Chief of a

> Scottish Clan in Scotland, you can be charged with a crime by the Lyon

> Court. I believe that the Lord Lyon still has the power to have a

> persons dangly bits stricken off. . .

I think Lyon King at Arms only has jurisdiction over recognised Clans and
their Chiefs.
Has anyone looked to see what Black has to say on the subject?
Lesley Robertson

Steven Akins

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Oct 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/11/99

to

Here is what Black, and some others have said:

In his book "The Surnames of Scotland - Their Origin, Meaning, and History"
George F. Black, Ph.D., tells us: "The use of fixed surnames or descriptive
names appears to have commenced in France about the year 1000, and such
names were introduced into Scotland through the Normans a little over one
hundred years later, though the custom of using them was by no means common
for many years afterward....at a general council held at Forfar in 1061
during the reign of Malcolm Ceannmor (1057-1093) the latter directed his
chief subjects, after the custom of other nations, to adopt surnames from
their territorial possessions... Surnames originating in this way are known
as territorial...Towns and villages and hamlets also gave distinctive
appellation to several persons wholly unconnected by blood - to any one, in
short, who left one of the towns or villages to reside elsewhere...Some of
our local names have never travelled beyond the bounds of the place or
places which gave them origin...Others again have spread over two or three
adjoining parishes, and still others have wandered over the entire
country...Many local surnames have been derived from places, the names of
not a few of which have not survived...Many of these places were too small
to be recorded on the map or have been altered....John of Akyne, a Scottish
merchant, petitioned for the return of his ship and goods illegally seized
in England in 1405...William Ackin was a witness in Brechin in 1476...George
Aczin appears in Lanark in 1498...John Eckin was a tenant under the bishop
of Aberdeen, 1511...John Ackyne was bailie of Stirling in 1520...Robert
Aykkyne was admitted burgess of Aberdeen in 1539...Forms of these names are
common in the Commissariot Record of Stirling, in the Edinburgh Marriage
Record, and in the Records of the Sheriff Court of Aberdeenshire...and in
Orkney it is believed to have replaced the Old Norse name Haakon and its
derivative Hakonson."
In his "Dictionary of American Family Names", Elsdon C. Smith lists the
names Akins and Akin as "Variants of Aiken...dweller near Akin, a strait in
Scotland named after King Hakon of Norway" Likewise in their "Encyclopedia
of American Family Names" H. Amanda Robb and Andrew Chesler arrive at the
same conclusion stating of the names Akins and Akin "the name was given to
those who were from the area near Akin, a strait in Scotland named for King
Hakon of Norway". According to William and Mary Durning, authors of "The
Scotch-Irish" the names Aiken, Akins, and Eakin came to Ireland from
Scotland during the Ulster Plantation of the 1600's where they were
transplanted to the Irish counties of Antrim, Monaghan, and Down
respectively. In another work by the same authors, entitled "A Guide to
Irish roots, they give a pedigree for the name which predates the 6th
century colonization of Scotland by the Irish Scotti for whom the country
was later named. In this genealogy they surmise that the name Akin is
derived from the Irish O'Eakin [O'hOGAIN], a family which descends from the
Irish Clann Tuirtre, itself a descendant of Fiach Tort, son of Colla Uais of
the Clanns of Oirghialla which were comprised of the descendants of Eochaidh
Dubhlein, son of Caibre Liffechar, son of Cormac Ulfhada and his wife
Etaine, whose ancestry goes back another forty-nine generations in Ireland
to its earliest mortal founders, the Milesians. Michael C. O'Laughlin, in
his "The Master Book of Irish Surnames" lists a number of spelling variants
including Aicken, Aiken, Aikin, Aikins, Aken, Eaken, Eakin, Eakins, Ekin,
and Eykin, which are found in Ulster and are of Scots origin. Edward
MacLysaght in his "Guide to Irish Surnames" likewise finds the name to be of
Scottish origin, adding that "some families of O'Hagan are said to have
changed their name to Aiken". According to 'The book of Ulster Surnames" by
Robert Ball, in Ireland the name is "common only in Ulster, Aiken is of
Scottish origin...The name was very common in the parish of Ballantrae in
Ayrshire and many of our Aikens may stem from there. There are many variant
spellings. It was recorded as being used interchangeably with Akins in Co.
Monaghan, Eakins in Belfast, Eakin in counties Derry and Donegal, Ekin in
Co. Donegal and Egan in Co. Down...In Co. Antrim where it is most popular,
it was found to be most concentrated in the area northwest of Ballymena in
the mid-ninteenth century." In a report furnished by the Hall of Names on
the surname of Akins it is reported that "Few areas in Britain have produced
as many notable families in world history...as the Border region of England
and Scotland. The family name Akins is included in this group...The first
record of the name Akins was found in Lanarkshire where they were seated
from very ancient times at the old barony of Akyne in that shire...The
family name Akins is believed to be descended originally from the
Strathclyde Britons. This ancient founding race of the north were a mixture
of Gaelic Celts whose original territories ranged from Lancashire in the
south, northward to the south bank of the River Clyde in Scotland...In 1246,
6 Chiefs from the Scottish side and 6 from the English side met at Carlisle
and produced a set of laws governing all of the border Clans...In 1603 the
unified English and Scottish crowns under James I dispersed these "unruly
border clans', clans which had served loyally in the defence of each side.
The unification of the government was threatened and it was imperative that
the old "border code" should be broken up. Hence the Border Clans were
banished to England, northern Scotland and to Ireland. Some were outlawed
directly to Ireland, the Colonies and the New World. Tracing its ancient
development, the name Akins was found in Lanarkshire...William Aiken held
lands in Glasgow in 1497, John Aiken was a Bailie of Stirling in 1520.

In Frank Adam's monumental book "The Clans, Septs & Regiments of the
Scottish Highlands" we read: "This "most aristocratic of communities,"
however, was based in name and theory upon the family, for clan, that is,
"children," is the Gaelic equivalent of "family"....The clan was a feature
of Gaelic organisation that the Scots had brought with them from Ireland,
although it may have already have existed in Scotland among the Picts....The
historical truth (as again set forth in the Ardgour evidence, see Appendix
XXX)is that the clan and family themselves were legally conceived as, and
treated as, incorporeal feudalised fiefs. The "family" or "clan" is,
however, always based on a fief, because to be an "honorable community"
which has been "received into the noblesse" of the realm, it must, in the
person of its "representer," have been granted or conferred, a "family seal
of arms," and a coat of arms is a feudalised property, the family is an
"incorporation," and all the scientific modern evidence concurs that "clan
and family mean exactly the same thing" (Appendix XXX, Dr. Lachlan Maclean
Watt).
Evidence of W. Mackay Mackenzie, LL.D. F.S.A., Secretary to the Royal
Commission on Ancient Monuments. Lyon Court, Case of MacLean of Ardgour vs.
MacLean; 5 July 1938
(P.220) (Q.) In your view, what does the word "clan" mean? (A.) It has a
general meaning of family, ordinary meaning of family, but there is a
peculiar sense in which it is used for this quasi-feudal organisation in the
Highlands, or you might say feudal organisation. (Q.) But its primary
meaning, I think, is family? (A.) Yes. (Q.)In your view, did the clans in
fact consist either of persons linked by blood or persons linked by reason
of place of dwelling in a territory? (A.) That is the defination of the Act
of Parliament. (Reference Acts 1587 & Act of 11 Sept, 1593 A.P.S., IV, p.
40) (Q.) Do you see a reference there to the pretence of blood or place of
dwelling? (A.)Yes. (Q.)Are those familiar terms? (A.) Quite familiar.
Pretence means claim....(Q.) So that in your view do you get this dual
element entering into the composition of the clan, blood-relation and place
of dwelling? (A.) Oh, yes, you have both.
Evidence of the Very Rev. Lachlan Maclean Watt, LL.D., Bard of the Clan
MacLean Association: (P. 517) (Q.) (Referred to Mackenzie's "Works," II,
574, 618: (Q.)Do you deduce that Sir G. Mackenzie considered that from a
heraldic point of view the "head of the clan" the "chief of the clan" or the
"representer of the family" all meant the same thing? (A.) I respectfully
suggest that it is a matter of "Head of a Family" and "Head of a Clan." He
was a Highlander and he knew that clan means a family. Clan and family mean
exactly the same thing."

Lesley Robertson wrote in message <7tt1si$bbk$1...@news.tudelft.nl>...

Steven Akins

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Oct 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/11/99

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"And you, O Druids, now that the clash of battle is stilled, once more have
you returned to your barbarous ceremonies and to the savage usage of your
sacred rites. To you alone it is given to know the truth about the gods...or
else you alone are ignorant of this truth."

Lucan,
Pharsalia

THreeBoaRS

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Oct 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/11/99

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Lesley Robertson wrote on 10/11/99:

>Clan MacNeil in Canada Webmaster <webm...@clanmacneil.ca> wrote in message
>news:3802079D...@clanmacneil.ca...
>>
>> BTW, if in fact you are bearing the rightful arms of the Chief of a
>> Scottish Clan in Scotland, you can be charged with a crime by the Lyon
>> Court. I believe that the Lord Lyon still has the power to have a
>> persons dangly bits stricken off. . .
>
>I think Lyon King at Arms only has jurisdiction over recognised Clans and
>their Chiefs.

The Lord Lyons' jurisdiction ends at the Scottish border and is only for the
arms registered in his court.

If this Akins' fellow has entitlement to armorial bearings within the Lyon
Court, he can lay claim to them through a very laborious and time consuming
process.

-------------------
"The ability to quote is a serviceable substitute for wit."
- W. Somerset Maugham

Sean MacUisdin

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Oct 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/11/99

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Ronald Downes wrote:
>
> Any yet again you show your self to be American. Face up to it.
> Esther

I'm almost getting the feeling that when you say 'American' there is a
certain distaste for it. Do you feel new world Scots are any less
culturally and ethnically Scottish than old world Scots?

Air muir 's air tir,

Sean of Clan Uisdin
-------------------
If anyone is looking for Sean of Clan Uisdin, he can be found in the
bathtub mulling over his thoughts wi' a dram o' Glen Ord.

Remove 'mac' to reply.

()
[]
[]
[]
<------>
[]
[]
Tha Gleann Garadh ceannsgalach
connspannach cruaidh,
chumadh ri luchd aimhreit
a' chonnspaid ud suas;
'n am tharraig gu sanntach
nan lann as an truaill
mholainn do luchd gamhlais
'san am ud bhith uaibh;
bidh ceum cridheil air reing trithear -
cha ghleidh bruidhinn buaidh --
aig buidheann mhor cheannard
nach teann mo chuid uam.
[]
[]
[]
[]
\/

Sean MacUisdin

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Oct 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/11/99

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Oct 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/11/99

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In article <taeM3.1541$D33....@ozemail.com.au>, Ronald Downes
<rtdo...@ozemail.com.au> writes

>What is to misunderstand, your ancestors came to America in the 1700's, you
>are an american with a mixed heritage, assuming that all your ancestors did
>not come from the one people group. that makes you an American any way you
>look at it. Be proud of it and your ancestory. However it still does not
>make you Scottish.
>

>However you choose to spend your money, and in whatever court you visit you
>were still born in America. The law or legal system cannot change that. If
>you want to argue about it take it up with your parents.
>
>I am a Scot, born in Scotland of Scottish parents and grandparents and so
>the list goes on. My children were born in Australia and have an Australian
>father of Irish descent. They too have a mixed heritage and are proud of it
>and of being Australian. I am not an Australian citizen, I do not agree
>with buying citizenship.
>
>By the way I am not your anything.

>Esther
>
>
>
>Steven Akins <sja...@sonet.net> wrote in message

>news:_vdM3.4710$oq.2...@newsfeed.slurp.net...
>> Esther,
>>
>> What is it to "be an American?" I am afraid that you fail to
>understand

Ask a Colombian if they are American and they will say yes along with the
Bolivians, Peruvians et al, I do not know about the Argentines though but it
pisses them off calling the US, America just as much as calling me English or
Scotch and yes I know I should accept being called Scotch it has a fine
history.

Pedant or what?

Bloody Poles and Swedes. Make you wish you were Albigensian
>

--
Lachie Macquarie, Bod an Deamhain I wish.

Steven Akins

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Oct 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/11/99

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Anne,

If the name Akins does exist at all? Well, there were 23, 586 of us
here in the U.S. at the time of the last Census in 1990, as compared to
17,924 Aiken and 12,140 Akin individuals. I would say that makes up a pretty
healthy Clan, and this isn't even taking the other less common variants into
consideration. For you Canadians out there, perhaps you may recall a former
Lietenant Governor of Manitoba (1916-1926) by the name of Sir James Albert
Manning Aikins. Then of course there was Thomas Beamish Akins (1809-1891) of
Halifax, Nova Scotia, a pioneer archivist and founder of the Nova Scotia
Historical Society, care to guess where his ancestors were from? By the way,
here are some additional statistics for you:
Clan Akins Surname Variants and Their
Ranking in the U.S. Population

The following list of surnames is compiled in order of numerical
superiority with their ranking in the U.S. population among all occuring
surnames according to the 1990 United States Census Bureau.

Spelling: Ranking Among All Surnames:

Akins 1,556th
Aiken 2,449th
Akin 3,449th
Aikens 5,245th
Eakins 8,398th
Eakin 8,488th
Aitken 8,510th
Aikin 18,838th
Aikins 22,499th
Aitkin 36,413th
Ekins 47,551st
Ekin 47,552nd
Aken 53,159th
Aitkins 53,162nd
Acken 53,194th
Ackins 75,642nd

The 150 Most Common Scottish Surnames in the United States

Smith
Brown
Wilson
Anderson
Thompson
Clark
Walker
Young
Scott
Mitchell
Campbell
Stewart
Bell
Bailey
Cooper
Watson
Ross
Henderson
Patterson
Alexander
Hamilton
Graham
Wallace
McDonald
Marshall
Murray
Crawford
Boyd
Kennedy
Burns
Gordon
Shaw
Robertson
Ferguson
Rose
Duncan
Cunningham
Armstrong
Elliott
Austin
Carr
Montgomery
Morrison
Reid
Frazier/Fraser
Douglas
Fleming
Davidson
McKinney
Craig
Fletcher
McDaniel
Ramsey
Cummings
Stevenson
Maxwell
Lindsey/Lindsay
McBride
McLaughlin
Buchanan
Logan
McKenzie
Burnett
Nicholson
Bruce
McClain/McLain
Keith
Calhoun
McDowell
McLean
McCall
McKee
Livingston
Kerr
Finley
McIntosh
McCulloch
McKnight
McMillan
McIntyre
Gillespie
McNeil/McNeal/McNeill
McFarland
Dunlap
McKay
McCarty
McPherson
Stuart
McCray
McFadden
McLeod/McCloud
Forbes
Guthrie
Rankin
Hanna
Lockhart
Sinclair
Kirkpatrick
Dunbar
McElroy
Leslie/Lesley
Sterling
McLellan/McClelland
Burrell
Ritchie
McQueen
McKinley
McLendon
McCain
McCord
Carmichael
McCauley
Pollock
Irvin/Irving
McGraw
McCollum
Kilgore
Trotter
Akins
McRae
McKenna
Drummond
McNair
Laird
Abernathy
Napier
Weir
Christie
McCracken
Crenshaw
Witherspoon
Kincaid
Bain
McLain
Shearer
McKinnon
Duff
Nesbitt
McHugh
Bowie
McGregor
Laughlin
Snodgrass
Kilpatrick
Moffett
Aiken
McCrary
McWhorter
McDuffie
McCurdy

anne.burgess wrote in message <38024...@news2.vip.uk.com>...

Steven Akins

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Oct 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/11/99

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CAPT Sel. Glen Cook wrote in message

<19991011181222...@ng-cd1.aol.com>...

>
>Please understand, I fully support family history/genealogical activities.
>FWIW, I would recommend a president/convenor of an Akin Scottish Society.
This
>would not require what appears to be a ruse.
>Glen Cook
>Coo...@aol.com
>

Actually, our Clan Society refers to its area representatives as
commissioners, of which we have several, including a very active one in
California, as well as one in Georgia, Arkansas, and Florida, who regularly
attend highland games and other Scottish cultural festivals where they
represent our clan.

Clan MacNeil in Canada Webmaster

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Oct 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/11/99

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To all hereby present:

I declare myself to be the Tzar of all the Russias!

Karl Ivanovich (nee Charles Kaiser)

*S*
--
Charles R. Kaiser

Clan MacNeil in Canada Web Services

http://clanmacneil.ca

"Vincere Vel Mori" "Buaidh No Bas"

Any way you say it, it's "Conquer or Die"

"Cuimhnich Air Na Daoine o'n D'thaing, thu."

Steven Akins

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Clan MacNeil in Canada Webmaster wrote in message
+ADw-3802898A.C01AB15C+AEA-clanmacneil.ca+AD4-...
+AD4-To all hereby present:
+AD4-
+AD4-I declare myself to be the Tzar of all the Russias+ACE-
+AD4-
+AD4-Karl Ivanovich (nee Charles Kaiser)

+ACI-Some people call it a slingblade....+ACI-

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Oct 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/12/99

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This is an idea of how seriously Mr. Akins claims are taken over in
rec.heraldry:

Subject: Re: Clan Akin claims
From: jdem...@easynet.co.uk (James Dempster)
Date: Tue, 12 October 1999 02:16 AM EDT
Message-id: <3802c988...@news.easynet.co.uk>

Ah, the confused Mr Akins - a joy beyond even Prince Michael of Albany
for the Scottish historian and heraldist.

>It
>has been more than six centuries since our Clan first emerged as a distinct,

>recognizable group of related families bound together by a common descent in
>the rugged border country of Scotland.

A border "clan" rather than a border family - what a pleasing concept
- no doubt Sir Walter is beaming down from on high. What a pity that
he mixes up his geography so much as to think that he's West Highland
as well as Border, and takes what may well be ancient impaled arms -
the armoured sleeve looks very like a variant on Armstrong, and claims
them as his own.

> This has not come about without both difficulty and controversy
>however. There are a persistent few who question our right to take our place
>alongside the other Clans of Scotland.

Who? Ah, of course - those awkward types on r.h and elsewhere who ask
for things like evidence.

>Loyalist British conservatism, which
>many would justifiably look upon as baseless snobbery, is still a rampant
>infection among those Clans who stand at attention and piously mutter the
>words to God Save The Queen whenever Britain’s national anthem is played; as

>if they have forgiven and forgotten the fact that it was England which has

>constantly sought to annihilate the Scottish people and their culture in a
>jealous attempt to expand its dominion beyond its own already bloated realm.

Yep, there's a gas chamber just down the road, and old Donald -
Quisling - Dewar has plans to lead us all into it. (Whoops - sorry -
that's the Dear Leader's plan for the "evil forces of conservatism").

> To me this is particularly distressing when this sort of British
>loyalist attitude is being fostered by Americans, as our ancestors paid
>dearly in the sacrifice to make our country free from the tyrannical control
>of England’s House of Hanover whose imported German kings sought to deny our
>Colonial ancestors their liberty as a free and equitable people. Even today
>in Britain, those who are unfortunate enough to live under Queen Elizabeth’s
>reign are forced to pay outrageous taxes, and only the very wealthiest of
>that country’s citizens own their own homes, while the masses live in rented
>flats and work for subsistence wages, having no genuine power to cast a vote
>in political elections.

Excuse me for 24 hours or so whilst I get new glasses!

> Recently, as our Clan has finally begun to be recognized within the
>Scottish heritage community there have been some derogatory comments made by
>loyalist detractors whose intent is to denigrate our Clan by arguing that we
>are not a “true” Clan as we are not “recognized” by the British monarchy and
>have not been thus “ennobled” by it (as if our very existence, which is a
>matter of fact, were somehow affected by whether or not we are recognized by
>any pretentious monarchical authority). I was even personally confronted
>lately by the recently appointed Chief of another Clan who berated me for
>serving as the Chief of the Clan Akins without going through the “proper”
>British “authorities”. When I pointed out to him that I am an American
>citizen and that the British “authorities” to which he was referring had no

>jurisdiction in the United States (where I have already been legally

>recognized by both my State and Federal government as Akins of that Ilk and
>the lawful owner of the undifferenced Arms of the Name of Akins) and that my
>fitness to serve in the position as Chief of the Clan Akins was more a
>matter for the members of our own Clan to decide than anyone else, he became
>irate and accused me of being ignorant, much to the dismay of his own
>clanspeople who were sitting at the Clan MacTavish tent where he was
>visiting, which I happened to walk past at a recent Highland Games in
>Mufreesboro, Tennessee.

I hereby claim to be President of the United States - I will take out
an ad in the Scotsman and the Glasgow Herald stating that I have
changed my name to James Dempster, President of the United States of
America - that's all that's needed for a change of name in Scotland.
Please send green and white SN61 helicopters, a boeing 747 and a
string of willing interns to my home address. I don't need to go
through any of the American rules which define who is and isn't
President because I'm a Scot and such petty rules don't apply to me.
Hey - I might even have a row with the US consul-general in Edinburgh
too.

>This audacity was matched by his insistence that the
>Clan Akins was not a “legitimate” Clan, to which remark I pointed out that
>even in the Court of the Lord Lyon it had been successfully established in
>the 1938 case of MacLean of Ardgour vs. MacLean that “Clan and family mean
>exactly the same thing”, and that Lord Lyon’s refusal to recognize our
>existence as a Clan would be tantamount to the Pope’s refusal to recognize
>the existence of the Protestant Church; it simply does not matter whether or
>not we are “recognized” as one thing or another by any assumed “authority”,
>our existence as a Clan under the accepted definition of the word is simply
>a fact, like it or not.

Sure, sure, clan and family are the same thing - but you've still got
to prove your position in it!

> This particular Chief was Dugald MacTavish of MacTavish, a Canadian
>citizen now living in the United States, who was recently recognized as
>Chief of the Clan MacTavish/Thompson in Scotland, after filing his petition
>and paying several thousand dollars to prove his case in Lyon Court in order
>to be matriculated as such. This was perhaps the most egregious example of
>the sort of baseless Anglophilic snobbery which unfortunately has begun to
>infect numerous individuals within the Scottish heritage community who
>cannot seem to separate the concepts of Scottish ethnicity and British
>political bureaucracy.

Hey you can be as ethnically Scottish as you like wthout even noticing
British bureaucracy - but you've claimed a British form of status -
title even.

> We cannot, I suppose, seek to re-establish our place among the other
>Scottish Clans without encountering some sorts of controversy stirred up by
>the radical loyalists

Yes you can - an Akins family society would no doubt get a welcome.

>Who can imagine the idea
>of the Lord Lyon telling a Highland Chief of the 1600’s that “he had better
>come down to Edinburgh and have his arms registered and he would have to
>mortgage his castle to come up with the fee.” Any good Highlander would have
>drawn his claymore then and there as his reply to such nonsense.

That's what he did - and as generally law abiding people, that's what
they did.

> It was for reasons of this sort that our ancestors left Britain in the
>first place, to escape this sort of political oppression over every aspect
>of their lives. It is unfortunate that there are those living in this
>country today who find themselves nostalgic for that very sort of
>bureaucratic totalitarianism in the name of respectability and tradition.
>As ethnic Scots, and more importantly as members of the Clan Akins, we have
>plenty to be proud of, and as Americans we should be thankful that we no
>longer have to live in a land plagued with such “charming” (yet oppressive)
>traditions.
> Today our Clan stands as a proud part of the ethnic Scottish heritage
>community, reorganized after centuries of dormancy, but once again strong
>and able to defend itself and its right to take its place among the other
>Clans of Gaeldom.

Anglo-saxondom surely - Beornicia was never part of Gaeldom, and you
are claiming a borders heritage.

>Even in Scotland itself, for today the Akins Clan tartan
>is being woven in Scottish mills, and Akins Clan crest-badges are being
>manufactured by Scottish metalworking firms, for sale to our clanspeople
>both in Scotland and abroad.

Well - some people will do anything for money - especially us Scots.

>All of this has come about as the result of our
>united effort to bring our Clan together once again, and to gain the
>recognition which we deserve as a viable part of the Scottish heritage
>community.

>
>
>
>Steven L. Akins of that Ilk
>

>An t-Acainaich Mor
>
>Note: Should anyone care to share their thoughts and opinions regarding the
>comments made about the Clan Akins and its Chief by Dugald MacTavish, I
>would encourage you to contact him personally and let him know how you feel
>about the affront he has made upon the honor of a fellow Clan. Please
>address your comments to:
>
>Dugald MacTavish of MacTavish
>3049 Bolin Lane
>Sebring, Florida 33870
>or
>e-mail:
>Duna...@aol.com
>
I have sent him my congratulations.

James

James Dempster (jdem...@easynet.co.uk)

You know you've had a good night
when you wake up
and someone's outlining you in chalk.

Glen Cook
Coo...@aol.com

Clan MacNeil in Canada Webmaster

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Wait. . .

Maybe I am not the Tzar after all. Just call me the Duke of Dubuque.

Your Buddy Karl

--
Charles R. Kaiser
Clan MacNeil in Canada Web Services

http://clanmacneil.ca

"Vincere Vel Mori" "Buaidh No Bas"
Any way you say it, it's "Conquer or Die"

"Cuimhnich Air Na Daoine o'n D'thaing, thu."

Clan MacNeil in Canada Webmaster

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Steven Akins wrote:

> +ACI-Some people call it a slingblade....+ACI-
>
> -Billy Bob Thornton

Some people call it a carpet knife. . . What's your point?

Clan MacNeil in Canada Webmaster

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Neacalban1 wrote:

> And how many Russias would that be?

Don't ask me, I was just kind of paraphrasing Pavel Chekov from Star
Trek. . .

But perhaps more that two?

Robert McKay

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Oct 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/12/99

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>Subject: Re: The Clan Akins - a Scottish Clan in America
>From: "Steven Akins" sja...@sonet.net
>Date: Mon, 11 October 1999 12:43 AM EDT

>...our Clan inhabited a wide area of Scotland, ranging
>from Fifeshire, Angusshire, Perthshire, Dunbartonshire, Aberdeenshire,
>Renfrewshire, Stirlingshire, Lanarkshire, Ayrshire and the Lothians.

Well, here's proof that this "clan" is a fiction. I'm no expert on Scottish
geography, but I do know that Ayrshire (the county of both William Wallace and
Robert Burns) was in the Lowlands. And since the clans were a Highland
institution, not part of Lowland culture...

Some people are so desperate they'll misrepresent Scotland with their
imaginings.<sigh>

Robert McKay/Raibeart MacAoidh
AOL - Goffs California
E-mail - goffsca...@aol.com
Four food groups: Eat in, take out, frozen, and canned.

Robert McKay

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>Subject: Re: The Clan Akins - a Scottish Clan in America

>From: Clan MacNeil in Canada Webmaster webm...@clanmacneil.ca
>Date: Mon, 11 October 1999 09:06 PM EDT

>I declare myself to be the Tzar of all the Russias!

I am the rightful Duke of Bridgewater!

Robert McKay

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Oct 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/12/99

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>Subject: Re: The Clan Akins - a Scottish Clan in America

>From: coo...@aol.comnojunk (CAPT Sel. Glen Cook)
>Date: Sun, 10 October 1999 09:34 PM EDT

>> jurisdiction in the United States (where I have already been legally
>>> recognized by both my State and Federal government as Akins of that Ilk
>>and
>>> the lawful owner of the undifferenced Arms of the Name of Akins) and that
>
>

>Really, the federal govenment recognized a genealogical claim and recognized
>your right to arms? I was unaware of any department which performed either
>function. I'd be very interested in how that happened.

In the US, you can call yourself whatever you want, and as long as there's no
intent to defraud the city, county, state, and federal goverments will
"recognize" you as that. For example, if I chose to go to a bank, give my name
as Hyper Upsalon, and open a checking account, I could do so, and as long as
the requisite funds were in the account my checks would be legal tender, with
de facto government approval. It wouldn't matter that my name is really Robert
McKay. Now if I wanted to go before a judge and formally change my name, that
would be fine, but it's not necessary; the government will regard those checks
as valid.

But there's no level of government in the US which even cares about clans;
that's a Scottish - specifically a Highland - institution, and there's no city,
county, state, or federal government which gives a flying flip. Now if someone
wants to incorporate an organization and call it Clan Whozis, that's perfectly
legal and the corporation will have legal recognition, but only as a
corporation; the incorporation under US law doesn't even address whether it's a
legitimate clan.

As someone has already pointed out, recognition as a genuine clan comes from
the Lord Lyon King at Arms, who is a *Scottish* official. That Clan Whozis
corporation ain't a clan until he says so. Period.

And of course the US government doesn't have anything to do with arms either.
That's a European institution. Now there are outfits which will discover, or
even create, arms - for a price. But unless they're genuine arms, and
genealogical research demonstrates that someone's entitled to display them,
they're meaningless from a US legal standpoint (indeed, even if they're genuine
and appropriate the government doesn't recognize 'em - because in the States
the government has no interest in such things).

Robert McKay

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Oct 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/12/99

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>Subject: Re: The Clan Akins - a Scottish Clan in America

>From: "Steven Akins" sja...@sonet.net
>Date: Mon, 11 October 1999 11:33 AM EDT

> You seem to be confused as to my point. I am not "making a claim" so

>much as filling a long vacant position and trying to do it in such a way as
>is provided for by the country of which I happen to be a citizen, in
>contrast to the laws of a country which my family left long ago.

A richt, Ah gie oop. Ye ken mair than any Scot iver kent, an ye're the ainlie
richtfu chief o th clan - an when there's nae onie sic clan foond in onie
authoritative source, th rizzon is thot those sources are wrang an ye're richt.

We haet a man like thot in California a hunner years or sae syne; thocht he wiz
an emperor or some sic. No ane iver paid him onie mind, he bein harmless.

Robert McKay

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Oct 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/12/99

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>Subject: Re: The Clan Akins - a Scottish Clan in America

>From: coo...@aol.comnojunk (CAPT Sel. Glen Cook)

>Date: Sun, 10 October 1999 11:05 PM EDT

>Secondly, it would appear that if you assumed these arms (designed them or
>had
>them made for you by a commercial vendor) you might be able to copyright
>them,
>but then I could do the same with my arms and call myself Chief of Clan Cook

I think I'll have someone whomp up a phony coat of arms for me and call myself
the chief of Clan Mackay.

Of course, The Mackay might differ with that decision, should he a) ever hear
of it, and b) stop laughing at me long enough.

Robert McKay

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Oct 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/12/99

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>Subject: Re: The Clan Akins - a Scottish Clan in America

>From: three...@aol.comSPAMTHIS (THreeBoaRS)
>Date: Mon, 11 October 1999 03:23 PM EDT

>If this Akins' fellow has entitlement to armorial bearings within the Lyon
>Court, he can lay claim to them through a very laborious and time consuming
>process.

It's unco easier just sayin it. Why gae throw th wark when ye can hae a th fun
wioot it.<g>

Steven Akins

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Oct 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/12/99

to

To the very outspoken (but ill informed) Robert McKay (McKie? McKee?
McY?......whatever.)

Still having trouble telling arse from quim I see. As I have said before,
and shall continue to stand firm in, it is pointless to argue over Lord Lyon
this and Lord Lyon that when good Mr. Innes' jurisdiction ends at the
Scottish border. The Scottish culture and its people however extend far
beyond that realm and may be found in most of the civilized (or otherwise)
parts of the world, where they are subject to the laws of the land where
they live. You all seem to forget that Scotland is named for the Scots, not
vice versa. As an Irish tribe with domestic troubles in their native Ulster,
they simply decided to appropriate a nice little plot of land in Argyll and
call it Dalriada, which happened to be what they used to call their old turf
across the Irish Sea. Didn't get a deed for it or anything, just said "It's
ours!", A bit like what that nasty fellow Edward tried to do several hundred
years later, or what that other fellow, George did a few hundred years after
that, and what poor old Charles tried to do right back. Or what a lot of my
folks did when the got over here and decided they were tired of George's
grandson, and tried to do yet again not quite a hundred years after that
when some of our fellow countrymen decided that we no longer knew what was
best for ourselves and needed to conform to their way of thinking. There was
just as much good Scottish blood spilled at Annttetum and Manassas as ever
there was at Bannockburn or Culloden, and for basically the same principles
"Nemo me impune lacessit" or as we say in Alabama "We dare defend Our
Rights!"
If one thing is consistant throughout history, it is that - in what
ever country we find ourselves in - we Scots stand up for ourselves, despite
what the so-called authorities have to say about it, be they Ceasar,
O'Neill, Brude, Edward, Cromwell, George I, George III, Mr. Lincoln, or Sir
Malcolm (though I have nothing personal against the latter as long as he
makes no pretension of authority over the 11 million Scots living in the
U.S., of which I and my Clan make up only a small, but nonetheless
significant, portion. We are Scots, whether we live in Glasgow, Scotland or
Glasgow, Kentucky; and our heritage is legitimate whether it is "recognized"
by the Queen's lapdog or not. There is nothing about that little country
north of Hadrian's wall which makes a person a Scot, as anyone can plainly
see who has run into anyone of the Paskistanis, Muslums, Africans, Hindus,
or Chinese who can be found as citizens living in most of Scotland's major
cities. We are a people, regardless of where we live or what government we
may or may not live under.
Mr. McKay, if you think my arms to be "whomped up" you are correct in
the sense that all arms are "whomped up" by someone at some point in time.
The arms that I bear were not designed for me personally however, but have
been borne by my family (who were Scots by the way) for well over two
hundred years. They are as legitimate as any, though like my family name you
may have trouble finding them in any of Collins' books. If you care to
trouble yourself, you may pay a visit to my family's burial plot in the
churchyard of Steele Creek Presbyterian Church, which you will find
convenient to the airport in Charlotte, North Carolina; and if you feel so
inclined, you may go to the courthouse there where you will find in the
minutes book of the Mecklenburg County Court numerous records pertaining to
my family, who were close neighbors to good folks like Col. Thomas Polk,
John McKnitt Alexander, and Henry Eustace McCullough, Scotsmen all. And if
you do go to the cemetery there at Steele Creek, take a good long look
around and you will find quite a few other gravestones bearing coats of arms
for other good Scottish names like Campbell, Carothers, Gilmore, Greer,
Maxwell, McCleary, McDowell and Neel; you might even want to dig a few of
them up and see if they have letters patent for the arms they bear on their
tombstones!
The energy which you spend in your tireless (yet tiresome) complaining
about this, that and the other thing in regard to me and my Clan might be
better served on more constructive purposes. After all, while you spend your
time worrying about other peoples' business, I spend my time rebuilding a
heritage for my clansmen. You are quick to point out this or that which you
consider to be undocumentable in regard to my Clan, yet how many other Clans
have pedigrees which can be traced back to mythical (or in your words
"bogus") ancestors? You show me Aodh's grant of arms and I'll show you mine.
I have repeatedly heard numerous moans whenever the word Clan is used
in respect to anything other than a "Highland" family, yet if you refer to
16th century Scottish parliament records you will find mention of "the
clannys of Liddisdale and Eskdaill" neither of which are located in the
Highlands. And was there not an act by King James which required all in
Scotland to be "clannyt men"?
You berate me for having the gumption to take up the reigns of a
wayward team in spite of the hollow rules of a kingdom whose voice and power
in this country are nothing more than an echo in the wind. Yet I have
accomplished more by doing so than you have by criticizing me for the doing
of it. I can think of others who have done the same, Wallace, Wishart,
Knox....absolutely no respect for authority, how dare they gather around
themselves a following who are so bold as to dispute the recognized
leadership; the nerve of them!
Well, I have had my say; the situation remains unchanged; the Clan
Akins endures.

Robert McKay wrote in message
<19991012183934...@ng-ch1.aol.com>...

>>Subject: Re: The Clan Akins - a Scottish Clan in America

Ronald Downes

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Oct 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/13/99

to

I have no distaste for any people group.
All have been created by God and I am commanded to love His people.
I can even understand why those who were born in other countries would like
to be Scottish, no matter how thin the blood line is.
What is wrong with being proud of your country of birth and of your heritage
through your ancestors?

Esther

Sean MacUisdin <sean.ma...@home.com> wrote in message
news:38023BB7...@home.com...

> Ronald Downes wrote:
> >
> > Any yet again you show your self to be American. Face up to it.
> > Esther
>
> I'm almost getting the feeling that when you say 'American' there is a
> certain distaste for it. Do you feel new world Scots are any less
> culturally and ethnically Scottish than old world Scots?
>

Sean MacUisdin

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Oct 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/13/99

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Ronald Downes wrote:
>
> I have no distaste for any people group.
> All have been created by God and I am commanded to love His people.

How delightfully put.

> I can even understand why those who were born in other countries would like
> to be Scottish, no matter how thin the blood line is.

They are ethnically Scottish, not nationally. Do you disagree?

> What is wrong with being proud of your country of birth and of your heritage
> through your ancestors?

Nothing is wrong with it. As I have said, I'm a very proud Scottish
Canadian. I make no claim to be of Scottish nationality, but I claim
Scottish ethnicity which is far more tenable than a mere imposed
man-made border on a map. This premise seems to bother you. Why?

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Oct 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/13/99

to

Robert McKay wrote:
>
>
> >Nothing is wrong with it. As I have said, I'm a very proud Scottish
> >Canadian. I make no claim to be of Scottish nationality, but I claim
> >Scottish ethnicity which is far more tenable than a mere imposed
> >man-made border on a map. This premise seems to bother you. Why?
>
> But what's the Scottish ethnicity? Celtic? Pictish? Norman French? English?
> Norse? All of these, and perhaps more, have gone into what we now call
> Scottish.

And? These are, of course, all contributing ethnic foundations into
Scottish culture. I'm sorry, but what is the point of this statement?

> I would presume, given the local of "Clan Mackay country," that my Scottish
> heritage would be mostly Celtic and/or Norse, but for all I know there's as
> much of other stuff in there, if not more, than those two.

Yeeeees. And? I do not disagree with your statement, but perhaps could
could clarify your point.

Steven Akins

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Oct 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/13/99

to

Esther,
I have never claimed citizenship within Scotland; don't know where you
got that idea - thought that I made it quite plain that I am an American
Scot. And in which family of mine was it that my Scottish ethnicity has been
watered down.....Akins? Alexander? Forbes? Henderson? McCorkle? Watson? Ah,
I remember now, it was that ggggggggggggggggggggggggggggrandfather of mine,
Malcolm who married that Saxon princess Margaret who talked him into moving
to Edinburgh & doing away with the Celtic Church - there goes the
neighborhood!

Ronald Downes wrote in message ...

>Claiming ethnicity is fine but this distinction does not generally come out
>in conversation.
>I may have lost the original claim by Mr Akins but as I remember it he
>claimed Scottish nationality amongst other things when he and generations
of
>his family were born in America.
>Which is why I make the distinction between nationality and heritage.
>I apologise if I have caused offence to you or others when making this
>distinction.
>
>Esther
>
>Sean MacUisdin <sean.ma...@home.com> wrote in message
>news:3803E2A9...@home.com...
>> Ronald Downes wrote:
>> >
>> > I have no distaste for any people group.
>> > All have been created by God and I am commanded to love His people.
>>
>> How delightfully put.
>>
>> > I can even understand why those who were born in other countries would
>like
>> > to be Scottish, no matter how thin the blood line is.
>>
>> They are ethnically Scottish, not nationally. Do you disagree?
>>
>> > What is wrong with being proud of your country of birth and of your
>heritage
>> > through your ancestors?
>>

>> Nothing is wrong with it. As I have said, I'm a very proud Scottish
>> Canadian. I make no claim to be of Scottish nationality, but I claim
>> Scottish ethnicity which is far more tenable than a mere imposed
>> man-made border on a map. This premise seems to bother you. Why?
>>

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Oct 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/13/99

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>Subject: Re: The Clan Akins - a Scottish Clan in America
>From: Sean MacUisdin sean.ma...@home.com

>Date: Wed, 13 October 1999 12:20 AM EDT

>> >Nothing is wrong with it. As I have said, I'm a very proud Scottish
>> >Canadian. I make no claim to be of Scottish nationality, but I claim
>> >Scottish ethnicity which is far more tenable than a mere imposed
>> >man-made border on a map. This premise seems to bother you. Why?
>>

>> But what's the Scottish ethnicity? Celtic? Pictish? Norman French?
>English?
>> Norse? All of these, and perhaps more, have gone into what we now call
>> Scottish.
>
>And? These are, of course, all contributing ethnic foundations into
>Scottish culture. I'm sorry, but what is the point of this statement?

You spoke of "Scottish ethnicity," but history shows that there ain't no sech
animule - Scotland's people have several *different* ethnicities.

>Yeeeees. And? I do not disagree with your statement, but perhaps could
>could clarify your point.

I'm not sure how it could be any clearer...

Robert McKay

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Oct 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/13/99

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>Subject: Re: The Clan Akins - a Scottish Clan in America

>From: coo...@aol.comnojunk (CAPT Sel. Glen Cook)

>Date: Wed, 13 October 1999 10:02 AM EDT

>And, he does not even trace his ancestory to Scotland.

Well, he did claim that his ancestors came from several Scottish counties; I am
no expert on Scottish geography, but at least one was a Lowland county and thus
wouldn't have the clan institution.

Robert McKay

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Oct 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/13/99

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>Subject: Re: The Clan Akins - a Scottish Clan in America

>From: "Steven Akins" sja...@sonet.net
>Date: Wed, 13 October 1999 10:48 AM EDT

> If you do not accept what I have already said at face

>value...

At face value, lad, yer claim is warth nae mair than the electrons it's
"printed" on. The *ainlie* person in th warl wi th authoritie tae say ye're a
chief o a clan - has niver said sae. Yer claim is worthless on th face o it.

Robert McKay

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Oct 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/13/99

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>Subject: Re: The Clan Akins - a Scottish Clan in America

>From: coo...@aol.comnojunk (CAPT Sel. Glen Cook)

>Date: Wed, 13 October 1999 10:12 AM EDT

>Why not give up the charade, form an Akin Society, along the lines of the
>House
>of Boyd, and serve as President. Develop your own arms (the Society could
>even
>receive arms from the Lord Lyon). This would serve all the appropriate
>purposes you claim, and avoid what appears to be a sham and pretense.

But thot wad end th grandiose claims, ye ken.

An it wad also end the ongoin laugh Ah'm haein at this lad's expense.<vbg>

Sean MacUisdin

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Oct 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/13/99

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Robert McKay wrote:

> >> But what's the Scottish ethnicity? Celtic? Pictish? Norman French?
> >English?
> >> Norse? All of these, and perhaps more, have gone into what we now call
> >> Scottish.
> >
> >And? These are, of course, all contributing ethnic foundations into
> >Scottish culture. I'm sorry, but what is the point of this statement?
>
> You spoke of "Scottish ethnicity," but history shows that there ain't no sech
> animule - Scotland's people have several *different* ethnicities.

What history? Scottish history? Are you basing the development of an
ethnicity on political/military history? The minute you combine and
assimilate two different ethnic backgrounds into one, you form a new
ethnicity distinct from its ingredients.

You assume that these separate ethnicities were incapable of coming
together to form a unique ethnicity. I disagree. The mixture of these
ethnicities has formed a Scottish ethnicity - and I doubt you will find
many of these 'pure' ethnicities kicking around much anyway.

THreeBoaRS

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Oct 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/13/99

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Robert McKay wrote on 10/12/99:

>I'm no expert on Scottish
>geography, but I do know that Ayrshire (the county of both William Wallace
>and
>Robert Burns) was in the Lowlands. And since the clans were a Highland
>institution, not part of Lowland culture...

Since Tiss is on holiday, I'll take up her banner for her:

Even though the clans are a Highland tradition, there are recognized clans
whose geographical area of influence was in the Lowlands - Alexander, Hume,
Graham, Maxwell, Johnson/Johnston, to name a few.

Don't seem to recall an Aiken, though.

-------------------
"Everybody is ignorant. Only on different subjects."
- Will Rogers

CAPT Sel. Glen Cook

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Oct 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/13/99

to

>The next thing you would want would be DNA testing. Really Captain, you are
>hardly in a position to demand anything. This little sounding board is
>hardly a court of law. If you do not accept what I have already said at face
>value, why should anyone believe you would be satisfied in seeing a pedigree
>chart? I suppose you think my great, great, great, great, great, great
>grandfather was a Presbyterian merely because he could find no other
>churchyard to be buried in?

1. I made no demands.

2. Nope, not a court of law, only the court of public opinion. Shall we poll
the jury?

3. However, based on a fair amount of experience in courts, both as a judge
and attorney (over 150 trials to verdict as counsel), when someone refuses to
provide information, it's usually because the information isn't there.

4. My great aunt in Marietta, Georgia is also Presbyterian. That is not proof
that someone is from Scotland, particularly if they are in America.

5. So, prove me wrong. Who is your Scottish ancestor?

Glen Cook
Coo...@aol.com

CAPT Sel. Glen Cook

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Oct 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/13/99

to

>Well, he did claim that his ancestors came from several Scottish counties; I
>am
>no expert on Scottish geography, but at least one was a Lowland county and
>thus
>wouldn't have the clan institution.

You're correct, I should have been more specific. He's not identified a
Scottish ancestor. I have Crawfords in my line, also a Scottish name, but I
haven't "traced" them back to Scotland (to use my term) and so I don't go
around claiming Scottish descent based upon that ancestral line.
Glen Cook
Coo...@aol.com

anne.burgess

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Oct 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/13/99

to

> If the name Akins does exist at all? Well, there were 23, 586 of us
>here in the U.S. at the time of the last Census in 1990, as compared to
>17,924 Aiken and 12,140 Akin individuals

Just because 23,586 US citizens spell their name this way does not alter the
fact that the spelling Akins is not recorded in Black's 'Surnames of
Scotland'.

Nor does the existence of 23,586 people who spell their names the same
constitute a clan. By your logic there should be a Clan Chang and a Clan
Patel and a Clan Singh <g>

Anne

CAPT Sel. Glen Cook

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Oct 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/13/99

to

>The next thing you would want would be DNA testing.

Snipped.

And you still don't respond to the question.

> the Aiken family in Liverpool,
>though unrelated to me, were also of Scottish descent. Their arms are a
>variant of Aitken of Saltcoats, I believe, with the addition of the crowned
>MacDuff Lion on the chevron. Completely different arms at that.

Actually, Burke's shows this charge being due to maternal descent from
McDowell.

And yes, they are completely different arms. That is my point. Until you show
descent from the armiger who's arms you are using, it is just as likely these
folks were your ancestors.

It may be that you are entitled to use the arms you are claiming. Terrific. I
have legitimately granted arms, and quite enjoy heraldry. But if you refuse to
take the effort to find out, it casts your position and organization in a very
poor light.

Glen Cook
Coo...@aol.com

CAPT Sel. Glen Cook

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Oct 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/13/99

to

>But thot wad end th grandiose claims, ye ken.
>

Oh, aye.

>An it wad also end the ongoin laugh Ah'm haein at this lad's expense.<vbg>
>

Ah, well, there is that.

Glen Cook
Coo...@aol.com

Steven Akins

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Oct 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/13/99

to

CAPT Sel. Glen Cook wrote in message

<19991013151109...@ng-cm1.aol.com>...

>4. My great aunt in Marietta, Georgia is also Presbyterian. That is not
proof
>that someone is from Scotland, particularly if they are in America.
>
>5. So, prove me wrong. Who is your Scottish ancestor?

A. to #4. Your great aunt isn't living in the 18th century. How many
different ethnic groups do you think belonged to the Presbyterian Church in
the 1700's?

A. to #5. John Akin, b. 1618 in Lanarkshire, Scotland. He emigrated to Co.
Monaghan, Ireland, and settled near Clones about 1645-46. He died in 1686
and is buried at the Presbyterian churchyard in Clones, Co. Monaghan. The -s
was added to our name by his grandson, who was my 6th great grandfather.

Steven Akins

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Oct 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/13/99

to

anne.burgess wrote in message <3804d...@news1.vip.uk.com>...

Why don't you check the South Glasgow phone directory?

By the way, our Clan recognizes all spellings of the Clan name,
Ackin(s), Aicken(s), Aiken(s), Aikin(s), Akin(s), Eaken(s), Eakin(s),
Ekin(s), etc., however as Akins is the most frequently encountered spelling
of the name (in the U.S. at least, where 11 million of the world's Scots
reside) it naturally takes precedence. I have not suggested that any ethnic
group should go around calling itself "Clan" anything, although the word is
used among the English-speaking Native American Indians as well, who have a
Bear Clan, a Crow Clan, etc. to which some groups within their tribes
belong. The concept of a Clan, that is a group of families sharing descent
from a common ancestor or ancestors, is found throughout many of the world's
tribal cultures, it is a narural development. The Scots however may take
credit for coining the phrase.

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Oct 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/13/99

to

>Subject: Re: The Clan Akins - a Scottish Clan in America

>From: Sean MacUisdin sean.ma...@home.com
>Date: Wed, 13 October 1999 02:55 PM EDT

>> >> But what's the Scottish ethnicity? Celtic? Pictish? Norman French?
>> >English?
>> >> Norse? All of these, and perhaps more, have gone into what we now call
>> >> Scottish.
>> >
>> >And? These are, of course, all contributing ethnic foundations into
>> >Scottish culture. I'm sorry, but what is the point of this statement?
>>
>> You spoke of "Scottish ethnicity," but history shows that there ain't no
>sech
>> animule - Scotland's people have several *different* ethnicities.
>
>What history? Scottish history? Are you basing the development of an
>ethnicity on political/military history? The minute you combine and
>assimilate two different ethnic backgrounds into one, you form a new
>ethnicity distinct from its ingredients.

Then my ethnicity is American - not Scottish, German, or Indian.

new_...@email.msn.com

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Oct 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/13/99

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Steven Akins wrote in message ...

>Esther,
> I have never claimed citizenship within Scotland; don't know where
you
>got that idea - thought that I made it quite plain that I am an American
>Scot. And in which family of mine was it that my Scottish ethnicity has
been
>watered down.....Akins? Alexander? Forbes? Henderson? McCorkle? Watson? Ah,
>I remember now, it was that ggggggggggggggggggggggggggggrandfather of mine,
>Malcolm who married that Saxon princess Margaret who talked him into moving
>to Edinburgh & doing away with the Celtic Church - there goes the
>neighborhood!

I did not know that anyone could a Scottish Citizen. Can you be a British
Citizen, of Scotland, or a Scottish Citizen of Britian?

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Oct 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/14/99

to

>A. to #4. Your great aunt isn't living in the 18th century

You haven't met my great aunt! <G>.

>John Akin, b. 1618 in Lanarkshire, Scotland. He emigrated to Co.
>Monaghan, Ireland, and settled near Clones about 1645-46. He died in 1686
>and is buried at the Presbyterian churchyard in Clones, Co. Monaghan. The -s
was added to our name by his grandson, who was my 6th great grandfather.

Terrific! I would suggest (I use the word advisedly) that you add this to your
web site.

Now, the remaining question, your relation to the person who's arms you are
using.

Glen Cook
Coo...@aol.com

Steven Akins

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Oct 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/14/99

to

CAPT Sel. Glen Cook wrote in message

<19991014004805...@ng-bh1.aol.com>...

>Now, the remaining question, your relation to the person who's arms you are
>using.
>
>Glen Cook
>Coo...@aol.com
>

Well, if you mean my relationship to the relative who had the arms on his
tombstone, Thomas Akins, he was the younger brother of my fourth great
grandfather. Thomas died without issue at the age of 28 on 15 August, 1785.
My gggggrandfather, William Akins, was appointed by the court of Mecklenburg
Co., N.C. to serve as the administrator of his estate, as he died without a
will. The court minutes read:

1785 September Session Ordered that Letters of Administration on the estate
of Thomas Akins, Decd., issue to William Akins who produces Hugh Parks as
Security, bound in L600. Administrators sworn.

William would have been the one who had the monument erected at his
brother's grave with the coat of arms on it.

Ronald Downes

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Oct 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/14/99

to

There are some that may not be surprised at that. Personally I do not see
what would be wrong with having their heritage and ancestory included.

Esther
Steven Akins <sja...@sonet.net> wrote in message

news:yddN3.777$zz....@newsfeed.slurp.net...

>
> Ronald Downes wrote in message ...

> >Would this then mean that you are linking your family to that of the
> >American Indians now?
> >Esther
>

Steven Akins

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Oct 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/14/99

to

-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Slight <larry...@erols.com>
To: Steven Akins <sja...@sonet.net>
Date: Thursday, October 14, 1999 5:47 PM
Subject: Further Discussions

>You wrote:

>Oh, please! There are a number of US Citizens in the newsgroup
>(although, I am thinking of dropping out!) and I would assume that we
>are all loyal to our nation of birth. My position is that, since I am
>involved in my HERITAGE, not my nationality or loyalty, as an Officer of
>the Clan Wallace Society, I can and do grant respect and honor to those
>who hold the offices upon which that heritage is based. There has been
>no hint of submission to an Officer of the British Crown made or
>suggested. However, since the Lord Lyon holds the books of Arms and
>registers of the Chiefs, if one desires to be accepted by the various
>Clans and Societies as a true Scottish Clan, one needs to address these
>concerns. One can't just "invent" a Clan (or family in the Scottish
>sense) by standing up and saying "Here I am!". You can say and do what
>ever you like, as long as it doesn't violate someone else's rights, here
>in the US, but that doesn't assure acceptance by the rest of the US.
>There are folks in Texas who claim the the annexation of Texas by the US
>was illegal and thus they are the rightful government of that "nation".
>You can guess how many others consider that claim to be acceptable.
>
>I don't want you to assume that I am disputing your claims to the Coat
>of Arms you display or to the fact that there should be a Clan Akins.
>However, I do want you to understand that those of us who are in
>recognized Clans and Clan Societies do not have any obligation to grant
>you the position and respect that you seem to desire. If you find a
>Festival and/or Games that accord you such recognition, don't be
>insulted if and when the Clans do not agree. As I wrote a few notes
>ago, I find rudeness to be unforgivable and I would prefer to ignore the
>situation if I come across it.
>
>I do find your description of you linage and work on your home page to
>be quite good. I just can not understand your political sentiments.
>You sound more like a member of a backwoods militia group that a
>rational citizen. I would like to meet you and, if you are planning to
>attend the Richmond, Va. Festival and Games, please look me up. Clan
>Wallace Society is having our annual general meeting at the Games on
>Saturday (23rd of October).
>
>--
>Larry Slight, NN, NSC, KHS, FSA(Scot)
>Director/Secretary
>Clan Wallace Society

Larry,

While you are probably the most rational of all of those whom I have
heard from since posting my original editorial on the ng, I remain firm in
my convictions. You, and most of the other members of the skeptics circle
are loyal to a Scotland of the here and now; while I am loyal to a Scottish
culture that once was, and that I hope will someday be once more, a Scottish
culture which is free of the oppresive influence of the English nation and
its regime of supremacy over the land of my ancestors. You say that I sound
militant, perhaps; but then militant attitude freed Ireland from its
oppressor, so perhaps there is something to be gained from that stance. I am
among those who support the rebuilding of a Celtic based society in
Scotland, purgeing it of its English impurities which include, chiefly the
government now in power, as well as its many offices of which Lyon Court is
one. I would that I could live to see the day when Scotland becomes a
republic of its own right, a place which might be more fitting for my own
children to return to, as sadly our American experience has been plagued
with problems which now seem to be so insurmountable that our people might
be better served to leave, as they will not be allowed to cut out the
cancers which threaten to destroy us.
It is less important to me to gain acceptance from those outside of my
clan, than it is for me to see my clan restored to a viable force to be
reckoned with, and this is ultimately going to happen. Three years ago we
were a disembodied Clan, adrift in a state of abandonment. But in the three
years since I put forth the call for our Clan to rally, look what we have
accomplished. Today our Clan Society is supported by no less than 100 member
families and continues to grow steadily. We have adopted our Clan tartan
which is produced for us in our homeland, and my personal crest is also
being minted in the form of clan-badges for our clansmen in Scotland by a
company which bears the "approval" of the standing council of Scottish
Chiefs. Our Clan web-site can be accessed around the world and is being used
to bring our clan together once more. Things, sir, are looking up for the
Clan Akins.
I realize that many enjoy casting aspersions on those who do not play
by the same rules as themselves, but when those very rules have been written
by our enemies, they should be discarded sir. It is time for us to make our
own rules! "Now is the day, and now is the hour" as the song goes.
Well, you have shared with me your opinions, and I have shared with you
mine. You come from a noble Clan, sir, which has produced some very fine
men, not only in Scotland, but even in the state which is my home, Alabama.
If we had more men like Wallace, things would indeed be much different.
Unfortunately, true heroes are few and far between, mainly for the reason
that the masses are satisfied with the status quo. I am not. I demand
change, and I shall have it, if I must lead my people to it myself, by God,
I will have it!
I should be pleased to meet with you and discuss these matters further,
but I generally am kept close to home by my family responsibilities, having
young children. We have a highland games here in Jasper, Alabama, which I
founded last year, and although I am not involved with it personally this
year, I would invite you to attend as a clan Wallace representative. In the
meantime, I will share with you the url of another organization whose
policies are in harmony with my own, Siol nan Gaidheal, which you may
explore by clicking on the link below.
In the meantime, take care, we'll see you in the funny-papers.

>
>Actually, what you're loyal to owes an enormous lot to Victorian England's
>sudden interest in Scotland.

On the contrary, the Celtic revival which took place in Scotland during the
Victorian period, was actually set in motion from within Scotland itself by
some of the leading lights of the day who were sorry to see Scotland going
to the dogs. It was an attempt to revitalize the native Celtic heritage of
Scotland which had been nearly stamped out by the Anglo-dominated government
and crown. Actually very few English people other than Albert and Victoria
and some of the artistic crowd cared anything about travelling hundreds of
miles to go trekking over the rain-drenched heather to shoot a few deer and
grouse - there was plenty of that in the English countryside. Albert and
Victoria didn't initiate the Celtic revival in Scotland, they were merely
caught up in it as were most Scots who cared anything about preserving what
little was left of their Celtic customs and traditions after the Hanoverian
suppression.

Joe Makowiec

unread,

Oct 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/15/99

to

anne.burgess wrote:

> Nor does the existence of 23,586 people who spell their names the same
> constitute a clan. By your logic there should be a Clan Chang and a Clan
> Patel and a Clan Singh <g>

Well, if one of the conditions of being a clan is having a tartan, then
I believe Patel qualifies...

Joe

--------------------
Sorry for the jammed e-mail address.
Joe Makowiec can be reached at:
makowiec(at)nycap.rr.com

John

unread,

Oct 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/17/99

to

What a bunch of crap. I have been following this thread for a while now,
and Steve you are the bigest bigot I have ever met. The trouble is, you
don't think you are. Mr. Bunker has nothing on you.

Iain... Of clan Gunn...

John

unread,

Oct 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/17/99

to

Neacalban1 wrote in message
<19991017010403...@ng-cf1.aol.com>...
>> There seems to be this odd little ketch, that
>>requires a Clan Chief to show unbroken lines of decent, and be a Citizen
>>with a perminate Scottish residence.
>>
>>
>
>Permanent residence? how permanent? the current Chief of Clan Mackintosh
>resides/teaches in Singapore. although his mother and sister live ay Moy
>Hall.near Inverness

I knew that someone would come up with an exception. Of course I am sure
that the Chief of Clan Mackintosh has not given up his rights as a Scot by
leaving the country. Should he chose to stay out of the country, and his
decendants as well, than I believe that there would be questions.

Iain....

Sean MacUisdin

unread,

Oct 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/17/99

to

Steven Akins wrote:

(snip to spare the US further embarrassment)

Well...... what can one say? Didn't exactly see that coming. All this
argument about clans and ethnicity was ultimately leading up to a racial
agenda.

I feel filthy now with you simply agreeing with my post concerning
contemporary Scottish ethnicity.

Friday I saw an Asian in full pipe band regalia - he looked outstanding.
I often Scottish country dance with a very dignified Japanese lady -
she's quite good. I know a black drummer in a pipe band - he's
excellent. The local Highland regiment has a number of Pakistanis - they
dignify Canada with their presence.

I would ultimately classify these people as my kith and kin long before
I would ever sully the proud name, history, and heritage of our people
with filth such as yourself.

Air muir 's air tir,

Sean of Clan Uisdin
-------------------
If anyone is looking for Sean of Clan Uisdin, he can be found in the
bathtub mulling over his thoughts wi' a dram o' Glen Ord.

Remove 'mac' to reply.

"But the howling of dogs beside me,
And the wail of the old heroes,
And the weeping of the woman turns,
'Tis that vexes my heart."

"Hey sexy moma, wanna kill all humans?" - Bender

Joe Makowiec

unread,

Oct 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/17/99

to

The chief of MacIntyre lives in upstate New York - established as chief
only a few years ago. The chiefly line has been there for over a
century.

Clan MacNeil in Canada Webmaster

unread,

Oct 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/17/99

to

Sean MacUisdin wrote:
(snip)

>I would ultimately classify these people as my kith and kin long >before I would ever sully the proud name, history, and heritage of our >people with filth such as yourself.

Hear Hear Sean! Very well said! This Akins character really turns my
guts.
--
Charles R. Kaiser
Clan MacNeil in Canada Web Services

http://clanmacneil.ca

"Vincere Vel Mori" "Buaidh No Bas"
Any way you say it, it's "Conquer or Die"

"Cuimhnich Air Na Daoine o'n D'thaing, thu."
- Remember the men from whom you have come.

Steven Akins

unread,

Oct 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/17/99

to

Sean MacUisdin wrote in message +ADw-380A611D.2EAF4AE6+AEA-home.com+AD4-...

Well...... what can one say? Didn't exactly see that coming. All this
argument about clans and ethnicity was ultimately leading up to a racial
agenda.

Not exactly. You seem to have overlooked the fact that I was replying
to a request for my personal viewpoint on an article which insinuated that
highland games here in America are a recruiting front for the Ku Klux Klan
and other white supremacist groups (perhaps you would have ben able to take
my comments in the proper context had you troubled yourself to read the
article which Ms. Garrett asked me to read and comment on. It is my opinion
that highland games and Scottish social groups such as Caledonian Societies
are not a part of this rampant white-supremacist extremist front which the
author of the article was alluding to. Racisim does exist however, perhaps
not to the same extent in Canada or California as it does here in Alabama,
Georgia, Mississippi and other states in the deep South, but the white
population of the deep South is unique in its experience of the cultural and
racial division which has always existed here in plantation country. I am
not singing the praises of racism, merely admitting that it does exist and I
am honest enough to also admit that it affects me as well as most other
individuals within the social groups that I am a part of. We don't go around
lynching black-folks for our Saturday night's entertainment, but we don't
want to live next door to them either. Unless you have lived in the deep
South and have experienced the level of tension bordering on fear which
exists between the white culture and those of other racial backgrounds, then
you cannot fairly judge the white man who puts his home up for sale because
the neighborhood is shifting along racial lines. You cannot condemn him for
the dissapointment that he feels at seeing his white neighbor's beautiful 16
year old daughter
an unwed mother of a mulatto child. This is not the racism of the Ku Klux
Klan, but it is the racism of suburbia, it is the racism of well-educated,
successful, accomplished men and women who cannot help how they feel, for
feelings such as these are quite natural, and it is an artificial morality
or set of ethics which says otherwise.