Forestry planting
Lesley Robertson
the Forestry have decided to throw all that away by ploughing up and
foresting one of the best views in the Trossachs.
Have a look here http://www.locharkletview.org.uk/ and sign the
petition if you think it matters.
Lesley Robertson
S Viemeister
Sheila
Nor
"Lesley Robertson" <l.a.ro...@tnw.tudelft.nl> wrote in message
news:5NqdneGI9pdpUrbU...@infopact.nl...
Done
Noreen
>
Jane Margaret Laight
wrote:
> After years of trying to improve their own image with better planting,
> the Forestry have decided to throw all that away by ploughing up and
> foresting one of the best views in the Trossachs.
> petition if you think it matters.
>
> Lesley Robertson
Done.
Jane M
Josiah Jenkins
Done !
Karl-Heinz Efkemann
schrieb "Lesley Robertson" <l.a.ro...@tnw.tudelft.nl>:
done
#203
--
Karl-Heinz
Jens-Peter Schulze-Hughes
You are signer #229
JP Schulze-Hughes
Mary
news:5NqdneGI9pdpUrbU...@infopact.nl...
Done.
Mary
The Fifeshire Bimbo
Done! I also sent out a copy of your email to 12 friends ... some
living in Scotland and others in Canada, Australia and the U.S.
Cheers, Helen
Nor
"Lesley Robertson" <l.a.ro...@tnw.tudelft.nl> wrote in message
news:5NqdneGI9pdpUrbU...@infopact.nl...
And my Dutch friend in Nieuw Buinen has also done :o)
Noreen
>
Séimí mac Liam
Now that bunhes of folk have signed the petition, perhaps someone of you
can explain why you think the view would be spoiled by the trees.
--
Saint Séimí mac Liam
Carriagemaker to the court of Queen Maeve
Prophet of The Great Tagger
Canonized December '99
Ian Smith
finger in the stour:
Ah've gone an' dunnit. ;-)
deem...@aol.com
> the Forestry have decided to throw all that away by ploughing up and
> foresting one of the best views in the Trossachs.
> petition if you think it matters.
>
> Lesley Robertson
Looks like a few trees might spruce the place up a bit........(do
I need an emoticon?)
Ian Smith
finger in the stour:
> On Nov 25, 5:14 am, "Lesley Robertson" <l.a.robert...@tnw.tudelft.nl>
Fir goodness sake, you just wouldn't leaf it alone, would you?
Fred J. McCall
:On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 16:14:36 -0800, deem...@aol.com scrievit this wi a
:
I don't want to needle you about it, but cone't you resist a pun or
two?
La N
<deem...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:d884ee8f-774b-4787...@33g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
****************
More importantly, where's Adam? I tend to pine for him when he's gone too
long.
- nilita
Lesley Robertson
"Séimí mac Liam" <gwy...@comcast.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9B6197...@74.209.136.93...
> "Lesley Robertson" <l.a.ro...@tnw.tudelft.nl> wrote in
> news:5NqdneGI9pdpUrbU...@infopact.nl:
>
>> After years of trying to improve their own image with better planting,
>> the Forestry have decided to throw all that away by ploughing up and
>> foresting one of the best views in the Trossachs.
>> Have a look here http://www.locharkletview.org.uk/ and sign the
>> petition if you think it matters.
>>
>> Lesley Robertson
>>
>
> Now that bunhes of folk have signed the petition, perhaps someone of you
> can explain why you think the view would be spoiled by the trees.
>
grow in what is boggy ground - thereby preventing the current flora -
heather, bog myrtle, bog cotton, St John's wort, etc - from surviving. They
put in non-native species in straight lines, packed close together to make
them grow straight, so that nothing else can grow, or even move between the
trees. And the trees will block any view that's left. It'll be just another
wall of mono-culture. The drainage will affect runoff into the loch. The
Forestry Commission has a history of doing this, but in the last 10-15 years
they've been working hard at improving their image - mixed planting at the
edges, using irregular lines at the edges and not encroaching on the
skyline, but sometimes they get carried away by the fact that they're one of
Scotland's largest landowners.
Oh, and the folk who live there don't want it - they have 2 weeks to prove
that people outside their community care - hence the petition. They're not
rich or powerful - there's a hotel, a Photography Centre (which is how I
know the area), farms and a lot of people who depend on tourists who are NOT
going to come to see another wall of Sitka spruce.
Many thanks to everyone who's helped.
Lesley
Ian Smith
finger in the stour:
> Ian Smith <ianin...@btinternet.naespam.com> wrote:
>
> :On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 16:14:36 -0800, deem...@aol.com scrievit this wi
> a :finger in the stour:
> :
> :> On Nov 25, 5:14 am, "Lesley Robertson" <l.a.robert...@tnw.tudelft.nl>
> :> wrote:
> :>> After years of trying to improve their own image with better
> planting, :>> the Forestry have decided to throw all that away by
> ploughing up and :>> foresting one of the best views in the Trossachs.
> Have a look :>> herehttp://www.locharkletview.org.uk/and sign the
> petition if you think :>> it matters.
> :>>
> :>> Lesley Robertson
> :>
> :> Looks like a few trees might spruce the place up a bit........(do
> :> I need an emoticon?)
> :
> :Fir goodness sake, you just wouldn't leaf it alone, would you? :
>
> I don't want to needle you about it, but cone't you resist a pun or two?
Well, there comes a point when you eventually get sycamore puns.
Ian Smith
stour:
> <deem...@aol.com> wrote in message
I'm sure he's rooting for yew.
Jane Margaret Laight
wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 22:25:13 -0700, Fred J. McCall scrievit this wi a
> finger in the stour:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > :On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 16:14:36 -0800, deemsb...@aol.com scrievit this wi
> > a :finger in the stour:
> > :
> > :> On Nov 25, 5:14 am, "Lesley Robertson" <l.a.robert...@tnw.tudelft.nl>
> > :> wrote:
> > :>> After years of trying to improve their own image with better
> > planting, :>> the Forestry have decided to throw all that away by
> > ploughing up and :>> foresting one of the best views in the Trossachs.
> > petition if you think :>> it matters.
> > :>>
> > :>> Lesley Robertson
> > :>
> > :> Looks like a few trees might spruce the place up a bit........(do
> > :> I need an emoticon?)
> > :
> > :Fir goodness sake, you just wouldn't leaf it alone, would you? :
>
> > I don't want to needle you about it, but cone't you resist a pun or two?
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Shame! Shame!
Don'tcha know that making a pun on a tree is a knock on wood?
JML
who once planted bullets cuz she wanted to see little shoots
S Viemeister
Ummm - did you _really_ mean to say that?
Cory Bhreckan
In Oz, root has a whole different meaning.
--
"For the stronger we our houses do build,
The less chance we have of being killed." - William Topaz McGonagall
S Viemeister
Fred J. McCall
:On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 22:25:13 -0700, Fred J. McCall scrievit this wi a
:
That wasn't bad, but if this keeps up it's going to give me a stomach
oak.
Fred J. McCall
:On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 05:42:36 +0000, La N scrievit this wi a finger in the
:
Adam is just generally a pain in the ash...
Fred J. McCall
:On Nov 26, 5:03 am, Ian Smith <ianinho...@btinternet.naespam.com>
:
So it's just another hatchet job?
:
:JML
:who once planted bullets cuz she wanted to see little shoots
:
I suspect you must have dug them up again, because you strike me as a
woman with a fair amount of brass....
Fred J. McCall
:
And being in Oz, Adam is rootless in pretty much every sense of the
word...
--
"So many women. So little charm."
-- Donna, to Josh; The West Wing
Ian Smith
I once planted a trumpet, but a gardener advised me to root-it-toot.
Ian Smith
finger in the stour:
A sachet of beech-ams should help with that.
Ian Smith
in the stour:
> Ian Smith wrote:
>> On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 05:42:36 +0000, La N scrievit this wi a finger in
>> the stour:
>>
>>> <deem...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>> news:d884ee8f-774b-4787-8e52-
ec301a...@33g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Nov 25, 5:14 am, "Lesley Robertson" <l.a.robert...@tnw.tudelft.nl>
>>> wrote:
>>>> After years of trying to improve their own image with better
>>>> planting, the Forestry have decided to throw all that away by
>>>> ploughing up and foresting one of the best views in the Trossachs.
>>>> Have a look herehttp://www.locharkletview.org.uk/and sign the
>>>> petition if you think it matters.
>>>>
>>>> Lesley Robertson
>>> Looks like a few trees might spruce the place up a bit........(do
>>> I need an emoticon?)
>>>
>>> ****************
>>>
>>> More importantly, where's Adam? I tend to pine for him when he's gone
>>> too long.
>>>
>>> - nilita
>>
>> I'm sure he's rooting for yew.
>
> Ummm - did you _really_ mean to say that?
I'm quite sure I don't know a lot of Australian slang yet. :-)
Cory Bhreckan
Root means **** in 'stine.
So endeth the lesson.
La N
"Cory Bhreckan" <corybhreckan@nospam_verizon.net> wrote in message
news:%ChXk.1218$us6...@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
What does **** in 'stine mean?
- nil, the innocent
Cory Bhreckan
It's when the chap puts his ***** in the lady's ****** and then they
smoke cigarettes.
James Hogg
The number of asterisks may vary from dialect to dialect,
but otherwise I couldn't have explained it better myself,
except possibly to add that "in 'stine" means
"in Australian", aka God's own English.
James
La N
I don't smoke.
Would cracking open a bottle of wine be sufficient substitute?
- nilita
Cory Bhreckan
Did I say 'stine? I meant 'strine.
Cory Bhreckan
I think beer is traditional in Oz.
La N
Anyway, I think we've scared Adam away for good <insert ellipsis>.
- nil
Peter Jason
"The Fifeshire Bimbo" <htr.@awa.an.bile.yer.heid.com> wrote
in message news:6p36umF...@mid.individual.net...
> "Lesley Robertson" <l.a.ro...@tnw.tudelft.nl> wrote
>> After years of trying to improve their own image with
>> better planting,
>> the Forestry have decided to throw all that away by
>> ploughing up and
>> foresting one of the best views in the Trossachs.
>> Have a look here http://www.locharkletview.org.uk/ and
>> sign the
>> petition if you think it matters.
>
> ... some living in Scotland and others in Canada,
> Australia and the U.S.
>
> Cheers, Helen
That view looks like a Martian landscape in flood. Clearly
it has all been mowed down by countless sheep and rabbits.
Anyway, do trees actually grow in the tundra? Perhaps a
thick planting of tall pines will work, or failing that the
newly found "dinosaur palm" in Oz called "Wollemia
nobilis" - a leftover from the Cretacious period.
http://www.anbg.gov.au/gnp/interns-2004/wollemia-nobilis.html
http://www.rkm.com.au/PHOTOS/AUSTRALIAN-NATIVE-PLANTS/Wollemia-nobilis/index.html
Fred J. McCall
:On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 05:43:56 -0800, Jane Margaret Laight scrievit this wi
:
I would have thought that a young man would have been more interested
in sax.
Charles Ellson
<corybhreckan@nospam_verizon.net> wrote:
As (in an increasingly health-conscious world) might the follow-up
activity. Maybe that should now be "they ***** **********" ? Allegedly
the traditional <insert relevant community> version reserves any
secondary activity to the female with the male going straight to the
snoring stage.
>> but otherwise I couldn't have explained it better myself,
>> except possibly to add that "in 'stine" means
>> "in Australian", aka God's own English.
>>
>> James
>
>Did I say 'stine?
>
You did.
>I meant 'strine.
>
I suspected that but I was awaiting confirmation. ;-)
Charles Ellson
wrote:
For the "afters" or for the whole episode ?
Fred J. McCall
:On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 09:09:32 -0700, Fred J. McCall scrievit this wi a
:
Oh, don't be a sap. It's knot right to just bark out any old solution
that occurs to you, you know.
Fred J. McCall
:
:"Cory Bhreckan" <corybhreckan@nospam_verizon.net> wrote in message
:news:YjiXk.1319$QX3...@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
:
That usually happens before, not after...
Fred J. McCall
:>
:
:I think beer is traditional in Oz.
:
Perhaps, but they actually do make some fairly decent wines there.
[As opposed to the indecent whines, which also seem to be made by some
there...]
Cory Bhreckan
Nonsense, he's simply too busy 'rooting'.
Séimí mac Liam
news:b0117$492d1241$83b4502b$31...@news1.tudelft.nl:
>
> "Séimí mac Liam" <gwy...@comcast.nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:Xns9B6197...@74.209.136.93...
>> "Lesley Robertson" <l.a.ro...@tnw.tudelft.nl> wrote in
>> news:5NqdneGI9pdpUrbU...@infopact.nl:
>>
>>> After years of trying to improve their own image with better
>>> planting, the Forestry have decided to throw all that away by
>>> ploughing up and foresting one of the best views in the Trossachs.
>>> Have a look here http://www.locharkletview.org.uk/ and sign the
>>> petition if you think it matters.
>>>
>>> Lesley Robertson
>>>
>>
>> Now that bunhes of folk have signed the petition, perhaps someone of
>> you can explain why you think the view would be spoiled by the trees.
>>
> They start by drainage-ploughing the land to drain it so that the
> trees can grow in what is boggy ground - thereby preventing the
> current flora - heather, bog myrtle, bog cotton, St John's wort, etc -
> from surviving. They put in non-native species in straight lines,
> packed close together to make them grow straight, so that nothing else
> can grow, or even move between the trees. And the trees will block any
> view that's left. It'll be just another wall of mono-culture. The
> drainage will affect runoff into the loch. The Forestry Commission has
> a history of doing this, but in the last 10-15 years they've been
> working hard at improving their image - mixed planting at the edges,
> using irregular lines at the edges and not encroaching on the skyline,
> but sometimes they get carried away by the fact that they're one of
> Scotland's largest landowners.
>
> Oh, and the folk who live there don't want it - they have 2 weeks to
> prove that people outside their community care - hence the petition.
> They're not rich or powerful - there's a hotel, a Photography Centre
> (which is how I know the area), farms and a lot of people who depend
> on tourists who are NOT going to come to see another wall of Sitka
> spruce.
>
> Many thanks to everyone who's helped.
> Lesley
>
>
>
I'm getting a bit of a disconnect here. Could you take a look at
http://www.unep-
wcmc.org/forest/restoration/fris/documents/CS_Loch_Katrine_Nov06_LR.pdf
Here it is small: http://tinyurl.com/5rgoxj
and tell me if this is the planting being opposed?
--
Saint Séimí mac Liam
Carriagemaker to the court of Queen Maeve
Prophet of The Great Tagger
Canonized December '99
Lesley Robertson
Loch Katrine is the other side of the road, and one of the main water
supplies for Glasgow. It's used a lot for recreation.
The objection is not to the planting proposals for the whole area, just to
the Loch Arklet part.
Huge chunks of that area are already down to the Forestry.
Lesley Robertson
Adam Whyte-Settlar
"Séimí mac Liam" <gwy...@comcast.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9B6197...@74.209.136.93...
> "Lesley Robertson" <l.a.ro...@tnw.tudelft.nl> wrote in
> news:5NqdneGI9pdpUrbU...@infopact.nl:
>
>> After years of trying to improve their own image with better planting,
>> the Forestry have decided to throw all that away by ploughing up and
>> foresting one of the best views in the Trossachs.
>> Have a look here http://www.locharkletview.org.uk/ and sign the
>> petition if you think it matters.
>>
>> Lesley Robertson
>>
>
> Now that bunhes of folk have signed the petition, perhaps someone of you
> can explain why you think the view would be spoiled by the trees.
It wouldn't.
This is just the sort of typical kinee-jerk reaction one has come to expect
from people who know nothing whatsoever about trees or the natural
environment of Scotland.
Arklet is just yet another species-poor wet desert that was long ago totally
destroyed by sheep-farming and deer-hunting mismanagement.
It seems that it and the whole west coast has been a treeless bleak desert
for so long people have collectively forgotten what a decent view and
woodland environment really is and have come to accept barren, denuded,
man-made bogs invaded by heather, myrtle and bog-cotton as 'normal' or even,
God-forbid, 'natural'.
Nothing could be further from reality. I mean just *look* at those photos on
the website FFS! Is that attractive?! Are they all ****ing blind or what?!
Can't you *see* how empty and denuded of woodlands the whole landscape is?!
This ignorant attitude is one of the main reasons I gave up a career in
woodland design. Screw them - they can keep their precious near-dead
heather-deserts if that's what they want.
The reason it has to be drained first is because 150 years of mismanagement
has compacted what little soil still remains on the hill and not in the
acidified loch. Any tree saplings would either die or check so badly they
would resemble Bonzoi trees.
There will be hundreds of thousands of broadleaved native trees in over 20
species planted and, if the designer is even close to being as good as I
was, then the result will be absolutely stunning - both visualy and
especially for the ecology.
Viewpoints are 'built' into the design at strategic intervals and points.
It's called 'sustained intrigue and is basic woodland design practice
Furthermore it only takes about 20 years for the first reversals of 150 -
200 years of damage to begin to be to be reversed. But you guys just go
ahead with your petition and keep the wildlife out why don't you.
Sheesh - why do tree-huggers even bother when the Scotland is populated with
such blinkered clowns.
Adam Whyte-Settlar
"La N" <nilita20...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:gl5Xk.207$yK5.82@edtnps82...
>
> <deem...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:d884ee8f-774b-4787...@33g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>> the Forestry have decided to throw all that away by ploughing up and
>> foresting one of the best views in the Trossachs.
>> petition if you think it matters.
>>
>> Lesley Robertson
>
> I need an emoticon?)
>
> ****************
>
> More importantly, where's Adam? I tend to pine for him when he's gone too
> long.
I'm just digusted at you total morons. Why don't you read something about
Scottish history or forestry before you sign something you have no clue
about.
Séimí mac Liam
>> f Here it is small: http://tinyurl.com/5rgoxj
>> and tell me if this is the planting being opposed?
>>
>
> Loch Katrine is the other side of the road, and one of the main water
> supplies for Glasgow. It's used a lot for recreation.
> The objection is not to the planting proposals for the whole area,
> just to the Loch Arklet part.
> Huge chunks of that area are already down to the Forestry.
> Lesley Robertson
>
>
>
I looked at the before and after pictures on the linked page you posted
and I really do fail to see the objection. When I googled Loch Arklet,
the best response I found was the one about the Loch Katrine and Arklet
plantings from 2006. I can't find anything from the Foresty saying what
it is they have planned except that bit from 2006. The after pictures
(photoshopped) from the petition site didn't seem to present what you and
the page described, but rather what was described in the pdf...plantings
appropriate to restoring the natural woodlands. I don't see how the
after photos show anything that will destroy or block the view. If you
can point me to some better info, I'd be most grateful. Whur the 'ell is
our professional forester when we need him?
Séimí mac Liam
news:hc2dnfyPiuriFrPU...@westnet.com.au:
Ah, thur's oor forester now. God Save US, I think we may agree here.
Got any links to what the acual plan is?
James Hogg
A good, well-informed rant, Adam.
I don't think the Heather Stewardship Council
would agree with it, though.
James
conwaycaine
"Adam Whyte-Settlar" <ador@ble> wrote in message
news:hc2dnf-PiuocFrPU...@westnet.com.au...
> I'm just digusted at you total morons. Why don't you read something about
> Scottish history or forestry before you sign something you have no clue
> about.
Scottish Forestry?
You had no forests until recently (having cut them all down for to make
cabers and whiskey and such) so what would you birds know of Forestry?
My dear old Da, a world traveler he, said that Scotland looked for all the
world like East Tennessee without the trees.
Fred J. McCall
:
:"La N" <nilita20...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
:
And now we know where Adam has been. He was out getting his bile tank
refilled.
La N
"James Hogg" <Jas.H...@SPAM.gmail.com> wrote in message
news:177ti45b5l55codup...@4ax.com...
Doncha like it when Adam talks dirty, tho'? ;)
- nilita
Jane Margaret Laight
> "Séimí mac Liam" <gwyd...@comcast.nospam.net> wrote in messagenews:Xns9B6197...@74.209.136.93...
>
> > "Lesley Robertson" <l.a.robert...@tnw.tudelft.nl> wrote in
> >news:5NqdneGI9pdpUrbU...@infopact.nl:
>
> >> After years of trying to improve their own image with better planting,
> >> the Forestry have decided to throw all that away by ploughing up and
> >> foresting one of the best views in the Trossachs.
Ochone!
so where were you when we total morons strayed from the road of
knowledge?
I mean, without you, we couldn't see the forests for the trees!
why, you should have been here amongst us to restrain our moronic
tendencies and inform us as to where we would go wrong, O Adorable
One! We look to you for guidance in these matters, and you were no
where to be found! And we asked all around for you too!
we have been betrayed!
O Tempora! O Mores!
Oh Oh Oh!
<swoon>
JML
firs keep me warm
Fred J. McCall
:
Damn, Adam, I think you got the woman all firred up!
Ian Smith
finger in the stour:
> "Séimí mac Liam" <gwy...@comcast.nospam.net> wrote in message
So, are you saying the Forestry Commission will not plant a monotonous
grid of conifers? (as they seem to have done in many other places I've
seen with my own eyeballs) Anyway, I'm not against tree planting in
principle. I just think the government sucks at pretty much everything it
does nowadays; bigtime. Lol!
Ian Smith
finger in the stour:
> "La N" <nilita20...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:gl5Xk.207$yK5.82@edtnps82...
>>
>> <deem...@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:d884ee8f-774b-4787-8e52-
ec301a...@33g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>> On Nov 25, 5:14 am, "Lesley Robertson" <l.a.robert...@tnw.tudelft.nl>
>> wrote:
>>> After years of trying to improve their own image with better planting,
>>> the Forestry have decided to throw all that away by ploughing up and
>>> foresting one of the best views in the Trossachs. Have a look
>>> herehttp://www.locharkletview.org.uk/and sign the petition if you
>>> think it matters.
>>>
>>> Lesley Robertson
>>
>> Looks like a few trees might spruce the place up a bit........(do
>> I need an emoticon?)
>>
>> ****************
>>
>> More importantly, where's Adam? I tend to pine for him when he's gone
>> too long.
>
> I'm just digusted at you total morons. Why don't you read something
> about Scottish history or forestry before you sign something you have no
> clue about.
Well, I hope your digustion gets better. In the meantime, a wee question
aboot trees. I've noticed a lot of rather dead looking (yellowish)
conifers up in the Highlands in recent months; much more so this year for
some reason. They occur in discrete bunches within a plantation, with no
obvious pattern. Is this something you've come across before?
S Viemeister
> Well, I hope your digustion gets better. In the meantime, a wee question
> aboot trees. I've noticed a lot of rather dead looking (yellowish)
> conifers up in the Highlands in recent months; much more so this year for
> some reason. They occur in discrete bunches within a plantation, with no
> obvious pattern. Is this something you've come across before?
They may be larches.
Charles Ellson
Cory Bhreckan
Did he say 'root'? I must have missed it.
Cory Bhreckan
There's a stretch of Forestry Commission land that runs a couple of
miles along the A830 east from Loch Shiel that is not a conifer grid.
They bought a tree farm and are converting it to native hardwoods and
pine. The Missus and I walked up the old logging road from the car park
up to Loch Shiel (we were too cheap to pay for the car park at the
Glenfinnan memorial).
Ian Smith
in the stour:
> Ian Smith wrote:
Perhaps. To my untrained eye they did look like dead versions of their
immediate (green) neighbours. Next time I'm out and about, will try and
get a high-resolution photo.
Ian Smith
finger in the stour:
I empathise with your cheapness. It is a quality which runs in my family.
Adam Whyte-Settlar
That's twice in 12 years!
Quite disturbing.
> Got any links to what the acual plan is?
I'll leave that to our resident knee-jerk reactionary Bimbo researcher.
I don't have the time to hunt them down myself but I'd really like to see
them. However I do know the rules that the FC work by as I had to follow
them closely and they were damn fussy (and rightly so) about veiwpoints,
landscape impact, protection of water catchments and streams and the
percentage of native broadleaves to commercial species etc. I have also
heard anecdotaly that since I left the old country they have gone even
further to the point where they have vurtually abandoned the attempt to
compete commercially with Latvia and Estonia and similar places as these
countries can deliver sawn timber on ships to the docks in Newcastle
cheaper than I could get raw logs there from 100 miles away. Therefore the
designs are now even more 'silvicutural' and 'landscape amenity' than
commercial.
Another little factoid that these landscape-blind heather desert
preservationists often neglect to mention is that a well-managed mature
Sitka forest hosts as much biodiversity (and more) than many of our own
native hardwood forests. And bare in mind that the soil in these wet desert
habitats has been destroyed and compacted by centuries of sheep hoofs and
overgrazing to such a degree that very few species can be established
initially. There would be no point planting ash, oak, aspen etc without
shelter from sitka or other 'nurse' species as they would shrivel up and
die. Don't worry - we tried. Repairing the damage in an area as wholly
devastated as Arkle is a long term operation and will take about 80 years of
planting, thinning, small coupe-felling for age structure variation and
finally secondary planting with hardwoods in the clearings.
Also the 'crammed together in straight lines' is a *silvicultural* technique
not a commercial technique. The idea is not to grow as many trees as
possible in a small area as many seem to believe, but to force the trees to
grow straight and tall at outset and then, after about 18-20 years and again
at about 30 years, they are thinned out to allow the trees of better form
to grow on while the thinnings are cut up and left on the forest floor ('cut
to recycle') to create habitat for flora and fauna and to prevent acid
run-off via adding humus to the soil for the following decades.
Here are a couple of pics of other FC properties where they have 'ruined the
veiw of the loch' with conifer plantings.
http://www.loveofscotland.com/pics/affric21.jpg
http://www.loveofscotland.com/pics/affric1.jpg
Now which do you prefer? The miles of man-made barren heather/myrtle wet
desert as in the pics of Arkle or 28 species of trees (including commercial
sitka and larch) as in the pics of Affric?
Adam Whyte-Settlar
>>Viewpoints are 'built' into the design at strategic intervals and points.
>>It's called 'sustained intrigue' and is basic woodland design practice
>>Sheesh - why do tree-huggers even bother when the Scotland is populated
>>with
>>such blinkered clowns.
>
>
> A good, well-informed rant, Adam.
>
> I don't think the Heather Stewardship Council
> would agree with it, though.
Is that the organisation that is aka 'A self-serving elite of
grouse-shooting wankers'.
Adam Whyte-Settlar
"Ian Smith" <ianin...@btinternet.naespam.com> wrote in message
news:492efc95$0$5223$9a6e...@unlimited.newshosting.com...
> So, are you saying the Forestry Commission will not plant a monotonous
> grid of conifers? (as they seem to have done in many other places I've
> seen with my own eyeballs) Anyway, I'm not against tree planting in
> principle. I just think the government sucks at pretty much everything it
> does nowadays; bigtime. Lol!
What confuses most people is the time scale that foresters operate on.
The FC was a total vandal IMO from about 1940 to about 1987.
Everything changed in 1987 - on paper at least.
The whole tax and grant system was completely overhauled. You might remember
people like Terry Wogan and Phil Collins making the the news by 'investing'
in totally innapropriate planting schemes to gain tax breaks back in the
1980's? The Caithness peat bogs debacle is probably the best example of the
worst excesses that the pre-1987 system created. Now in that case the
bog-lovers were right. That area had *never* been a forest in the first
place and the species they chose (lodgepole pine) turned out to be a
disaster. I think they are currently cutting them down. That led to some
very bad press for the FC and deservedly so (though a lot of it was done by
private entities too).
Trouble is - all the trees that were blanket planted on 'tree-farms' pre
1987 are, of course, still there and growing more noticiable by the year.
It makes no sense to wade in and cut them to waste at this stage so the FC
is basically stuck with them for about the next 30 years at least. In some
areas the fellin cycle is a long as 100 years! In most cases the average is
about 60.
They have instigated a policy of felling in small coupes instead of
clear-felling, have removed buffer zones around streams and replanted with
hardwoods around the edges, and restructured for age-class variation, made
open areas for deer glades (aka killing fields : )) and various other
tinkering at the edges but unless they take a massive hit and pay thousands
of cutters to clear them for no profit and then replant their entire
holdings with natives at enormous cost they can't do anything much more
quickly than they are already doing.
If you live another 50 years you WILL see a huge change in the landscape
but it is going to carry on getting worse for a decade or two yet before it
starts getting better.
A trained eye can easily see these changes taking place but to the great
unwashed it still looks like a dark green blanket smothering the hills.
Not so.
Adam Whyte-Settlar
"Jane Margaret Laight" <jml2...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e5c1cf1d-ba1b-4ab4-9990-
> This is just the sort of typical kinee-jerk reaction one has come to
> expect
> from people who know nothing whatsoever about trees or the natural
> environment of Scotland.
so where were you when we total morons strayed from the road of
knowledge?
I HAVE been trying to educate these 'wet desert wankers' since around 1972.
I tried - believe me I tried. I've even got into fist fights over it. (Well
OK - I actually just ran away very fast on several occasions)
I've written countless newspaper and magazine articles on it - I've even
given a totally nerve-wracking 15 minute national radio broadcast on the
subject.
And in the early stages I was doing this against the teeth of a hurricane
and was considered quite mad by some, if not most foresters and public. Now,
some 30 years later, most of my 'radical ideas' are mainstream forestry
best practice but still the wet desert wankers block us at every turn as
they know best of course.
And now half of the posters in here have joined their ranks without pausing
for even a minute to consider the merits of the proposals.
Peat bog good.Fir trees bad.Peat bog good.Fir trees bad.Peat bog good.Fir
trees bad.
Lord, give me strength.
La N
No, he said, "blinkered clowns". That was cool.
And, btw, what does "blinkered clowns" mean?
- nilita
Cory Bhreckan
There's no need to be blunt.
Scotty
Pardon the top posting but I didn't want to make you re-read the harsh and
unfeeling berating just ladled out by that insensitive B*****d ex-pat.
I realise that nerves are feeling a bit jangled and already too many red faces
but this is too funny to miss. At least to my sense of humour.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLKXhbRs2d4
It's a petition to ban a substance that occurs in all our rivers, super-markets,
baby food etc.
I don't mean to rub it in....
Lesley Robertson
"Adam Whyte-Settlar" <ador@ble> wrote in message
news:xfydna9tmK7p07LU...@westnet.com.au...
> And now half of the posters in here have joined their ranks without
> pausing for even a minute to consider the merits of the proposals.
> Peat bog good.Fir trees bad.Peat bog good.Fir trees bad.Peat bog good.Fir
> trees bad.
> Lord, give me strength.
>
Maybe the posters here think that the local people who have to live with the
consequences should be allowed to have a say in the decisions and deserve
some support? If you'd read the site, you'd know that they're not objecting
to the whole plantation, just one specific piece.
However, total submission from the locals has always been a requirement of
the FC.
Sorry folks, it seems that I should not have asked you to make up your own
minds!
Lesley Robertson
Séimí mac Liam
Of course, you should. Could you please give us the other side of the
question? What is the actual plan to which a part is being objected?
Encouraging folks to make up their own minds from wholey one-sided
information, that's what you shouldn't have done.
charles
Scotty <nob...@home.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Nov 2008 21:56:16 +1000, "Adam Whyte-Settlar" <ador@ble> wrote:
> Pardon the top posting but I didn't want to make you re-read the harsh and
> unfeeling berating just ladled out by that insensitive B*****d ex-pat.
> I realise that nerves are feeling a bit jangled and already too many red
> faces but this is too funny to miss. At least to my sense of humour.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLKXhbRs2d4
> It's a petition to ban a substance that occurs in all our rivers,
> super-markets, baby food etc.
surely the substance is Di-hydrogen 'Monoxide'. Monoxide makes it much
more dangerous - and, it's even found in beer!
--
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"
Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11
Séimí mac Liam
news:50054046...@charleshope.demon.co.uk:
Especially Real Ale!
Adam Whyte-Settlar
> I looked at the before and after pictures on the linked page you posted
> and I really do fail to see the objection. When I googled Loch Arklet,
> the best response I found was the one about the Loch Katrine and Arklet
> plantings from 2006. I can't find anything from the Foresty saying what
> it is they have planned except that bit from 2006. The after pictures
> (photoshopped) from the petition site didn't seem to present what you and
> the page described, but rather what was described in the pdf...plantings
> appropriate to restoring the natural woodlands. I don't see how the
> after photos show anything that will destroy or block the view. If you
> can point me to some better info, I'd be most grateful. Whur the 'ell is
> our professional forester when we need him?
If you mean me I'm not a 'forester' and never have been. Although I do have
a Higher National Diploma in Forestry I also have a BSc in environmental
management and was employed by a private company as an environmental
management consultant.
Foresters worked for me.
I can't comment in detail until I see the plans. The plans should be
accessible to the public and are usually posted in council buildings and the
FC offices and can be ordered on request. The public are invited to study
them and lodge any objections they have prior to a given date. All part of
the public consultation process. I don't know if they are available online
however.
I find it difficult to believe that the FC would or legally could make an
exception for this paticular planting and abandon their long-standing
national policy regarding amenity, landscaping, ecology and public access
criteria. These aren't 'guidelines' they are the law. In recent years the
emphasis has switched from a doomed attempt to make a decent profit to
providing a public asset. All FC lands are now open to the public and the
designs reflect this fact.
According to FC research, when visiting the countryside the average distance
people walk from their cars is 300 yards. Yes - that's right - 300 yards. To
this end the FC will concentrate their 'best' plantings around key
viewpoints and 'interpretation centres' - known as 'honeypots' in the trade.
In addition all roadsides should be planted with hardwoods to a 'depth' of
at least 30 metres. At least all my designs were. 30 metres doesn't sound
much on paper but you try peering through it when it's mature.
Within the forest the tracks and paths are treated in a similar fashion as
are all ridges, knolls and easily visible points. Beyond the visible
horizons is where the bulk of the commercial species will be planted. As I
mentioned elsewhere a well-managed sitka spruce plantation can also provide
good habitat and if mixed with larch, douglas, and scots pine can also look
good. The pics I posted of Loch Affric include a large percentage of
non-native larch for example. Most people wouldn't have a clue what species
they were - they just think it's beautifull. The emphasis is on the
'well-managed' part.
All the above has been more or less standard design practice for at least 15
years now.
A good example of this technique is on the Duke of Bucleugh's (sp?) place
near Castle Douglas. From the various 'honeypots' around his vast estate it
is almost impossible to spot a non-specimen conifer. We visited as students
and one of the tasks we were given back in class later was to estimate what
percentage of his woodlands were commercial conifer plantations.
No-one came close.
Most estimates were in the 30 - 40% range.
In fact the figure is nearly 90%.
A classic case of not being able to see the wood for the trees. The views
were simply stunning. One of the best estates I've seen in fact.
I would expect the FC's planners and contracted-in environmental management
consultants to produce something equally stunning at Arklet or I shall want
to know the reason why.
If anyone can find the plans please let me know.
Adam Whyte-Settlar
"conwaycaine" <conwa...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:L5yXk.696$nD1...@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
To me it looks like Scotland without the trees.
Adam Whyte-Settlar
"Lesley Robertson" <l.a.ro...@tnw.tudelft.nl> wrote in message
news:3e912$492fb07b$83b4502b$10...@news1.tudelft.nl...
>
> "Adam Whyte-Settlar" <ador@ble> wrote in message
> news:xfydna9tmK7p07LU...@westnet.com.au...
>> And now half of the posters in here have joined their ranks without
>> pausing for even a minute to consider the merits of the proposals.
>> Peat bog good.Fir trees bad.Peat bog good.Fir trees bad.Peat bog good.Fir
>> trees bad.
>> Lord, give me strength.
>>
>
> Maybe the posters here think that the local people who have to live with
> the consequences should be allowed to have a say in the decisions and
> deserve some support? If you'd read the site, you'd know that they're not
> objecting to the whole plantation, just one specific piece.
> However, total submission from the locals has always been a requirement of
> the FC.
Excuse me but that's simply tosh.
It is Scottish law that the plans have to be made available for public
consultation purposes and are displayed in FC offices and other public
places and copies have to be supplied upon request. (I think there might be
a fee for the latter fair enough) The public then have a period of at least
28 days to lodge objections which in my experience were always taken
seriously.
A part of my job was taking the flack at public meetings over just that sort
of thing. We found it extremely hard to please everybody. Reconciling
horse-riders with walkers and bikers was tricky for example, but we bent
over backwards to try and keep the public happy.
And IMO it's not a 'local' issue it's a global issue. A few local people who
are inexplicably blind to the devastation that has been wrought on the land
all around them over the last few centuries have no right to prevent the
rest of the world's less blinkered people from attempting to restore it to
life for the benefit of future generations and the planet in general. Every
little bit helps.
Adam Whyte-Settlar
"S Viemeister" <firs...@lastname.oc.ku> wrote in message
news:6p8dk6F...@mid.individual.net...
That's what I was going to suggest but the 'recent months' bit suggests some
kind of die-back.
More research (by Ian) is required.
Adam Whyte-Settlar
I'm sorry to have to tell you this Seimi but I agree with you on this too.
From what Lesley says above it appears I might have missed something but I
still think people should investigate thoroughly before signing a petition.
Adam Whyte-Settlar
>
>>
>> Root means **** in 'stine.
>>
>> So endeth the lesson.
>>
>>
>
> What does **** in 'stine mean?
He means 'Strine'.
It helps to remember he's an idiot.
Adam Whyte-Settlar
>
>
> Anyway, I think we've scared Adam away for good <insert ellipsis>.
Do you still need to use contraception at your advanced age?
Adam Whyte-Settlar
> Nonsense, he's simply too busy 'rooting'.
Truth to tell I'm finding you all even less inspiring than I usualy do.
That and the absolutely disgusting weather we are having at the moment is
entirely sapping my will to live.
Wednesday was the hottest day we've had since we moved to Australia.
Stinking, fetid, super-heated air is coming straight down over PNG in a
constant stream all the way fromt he equator. 38C in the shade and 96%
humidity. And there's no shade. I'm sure the air has been used several times
before we get it. On top of that, last week, just before the current
northerly wind began I made the stupid mistake of deciding I was bored and
thought; 'I know - I'll get a job'.
I must have been slipped some crisis crank in my vino or else I'm going
Doolally. Anyway - I went into the nearest tropical plant nursery and more
or less said 'I can do that - geez a job' and they did.
I don't know how they can stand it. I was drinking about 8 or 9 pints of
water a day and getting sunburnt *through* my soaking wet shirt.
*-*-*-* t-h-a-t!
I lasted all of three days before discovering I had something far more
compelling to do - like lying flat on my back in the bedroom with the A/C
turned full on chewing the air 30 times before inhaling it and being bored.
I'm currently looking for an inside job so to speak.
One compensation has been the truly spectacular lightning storms we've been
having every evening and the fact that the humid air has made it all the way
south as far as Melbourne sparking some very heavy rainfalls in the
Moray-Darling catchment on the way. First real rain for nine or ten years
for some regions. You wait - floods next. What a country - has all it's rain
in one night once a decade.
Séimí mac Liam
Oh, no. My reputation is irreparably damaged.
conwaycaine
"Adam Whyte-Settlar" <ador@ble> wrote in message
> "Séimí mac Liam" <gwy...@comcast.nospam.net> wrote in message
>> our professional forester when we need him?
>
> If you mean me I'm not a 'forester' and never have been.
I distinctly remember your stating you had "Single Handedly" planted half
the trees in Western Scotland.
If that does not qualify you as a forester, what does?
> Foresters worked for me.
The forestry training helps in the manufacture of pink purses?
conwaycaine
"Adam Whyte-Settlar" <ador@ble> wrote in message
> "conwaycaine" <conwa...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>> My dear old Da, a world traveler he, said that Scotland looked for all
>> the world like East Tennessee without the trees.
>
> To me it looks like Scotland without the trees.
Because, you benighted ex pat, you've never been to East Tennessee.
deem...@aol.com
> "Adam Whyte-Settlar" <ador@ble> wrote in message
>
> news:5bOdnfMzOKgET7LU...@westnet.com.au...
>
> >> My dear old Da, a world traveler he, said that Scotland looked for all
> >> the world like East Tennessee without the trees.
>
> > To me it looks like Scotland without the trees.
>
> Because, you benighted ex pat, you've never been to East Tennessee.
He's afraid to be a stranger climbing Rocky Top......
Charles Ellson
<corybhreckan@nospam_verizon.net> wrote:
>Adam Whyte-Settlar wrote:
>> "James Hogg" <Jas.H...@SPAM.gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:177ti45b5l55codup...@4ax.com...
>>
>>>> Viewpoints are 'built' into the design at strategic intervals and points.
>>>> It's called 'sustained intrigue' and is basic woodland design practice
>>
>>>> Sheesh - why do tree-huggers even bother when the Scotland is populated
>>>> with
>>>> such blinkered clowns.
>>>
>>> A good, well-informed rant, Adam.
>>>
>>> I don't think the Heather Stewardship Council
>>> would agree with it, though.
>>
>> Is that the organisation that is aka 'A self-serving elite of
>> grouse-shooting wankers'.
>
>There's no need to be blunt.
>
I don't know about "blunt" but I don't think the description narrows
it down to a single organisation.
Séimí mac Liam
news:X8UXk.1273$n_5....@bignews7.bellsouth.net:
And here was me thinking all that was necessary was an adequate suppy o
sow's ears.
Charles Ellson
<cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <90bvi4d4aaeu7t8id...@4ax.com>,
> Scotty <nob...@home.net> wrote:
>> On Thu, 27 Nov 2008 21:56:16 +1000, "Adam Whyte-Settlar" <ador@ble> wrote:
>
>> Pardon the top posting but I didn't want to make you re-read the harsh and
>> unfeeling berating just ladled out by that insensitive B*****d ex-pat.
>
>> I realise that nerves are feeling a bit jangled and already too many red
>> faces but this is too funny to miss. At least to my sense of humour.
>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLKXhbRs2d4
>
>> It's a petition to ban a substance that occurs in all our rivers,
>> super-markets, baby food etc.
>
>surely the substance is Di-hydrogen 'Monoxide'.
>
It was/is. The title is wrong and someone did notice.
>Monoxide makes it much
>more dangerous - and, it's even found in beer!
>
You'd rather have Dihydrogen Dioxide (H2 O2) in your beer ?
Séimí mac Liam
news:hp40j45dv0c6erkm4...@4ax.com:
Only for removal of the sickly green color on March 18th.
Cory Bhreckan
I haven't the foggiest.
Cory Bhreckan
This clip is derivative, a Di-hydrogen Monoxide shtick was done by Al
Franken on 'Saturday Night Live' back in the '70s.
Cory Bhreckan
> "Cory Bhreckan" <corybhreckan@nospam_verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:qyjXk.1337$QX3...@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
>
>
>> Nonsense, he's simply too busy 'rooting'.
>
> Truth to tell I'm finding you all even less inspiring than I usualy do.
> That and the absolutely disgusting weather we are having at the moment is
> entirely sapping my will to live.
> Wednesday was the hottest day we've had since we moved to Australia.
> Stinking, fetid, super-heated air is coming straight down over PNG in a
> constant stream all the way fromt he equator. 38C in the shade and 96%
> humidity. And there's no shade. I'm sure the air has been used several times
> before we get it. On top of that, last week, just before the current
> northerly wind began I made the stupid mistake of deciding I was bored and
> thought; 'I know - I'll get a job'.
> I must have been slipped some crisis crank in my vino or else I'm going
> Doolally. Anyway - I went into the nearest tropical plant nursery and more
> or less said 'I can do that - geez a job' and they did.
> I don't know how they can stand it. I was drinking about 8 or 9 pints of
> water a day and getting sunburnt *through* my soaking wet shirt.
So I was right, you *were* rooting.
>
> *-*-*-* t-h-a-t!
>
> I lasted all of three days before discovering I had something far more
> compelling to do - like lying flat on my back in the bedroom with the A/C
> turned full on chewing the air 30 times before inhaling it and being bored.
> I'm currently looking for an inside job so to speak.
> One compensation has been the truly spectacular lightning storms we've been
> having every evening and the fact that the humid air has made it all the way
> south as far as Melbourne sparking some very heavy rainfalls in the
> Moray-Darling catchment on the way. First real rain for nine or ten years
> for some regions. You wait - floods next. What a country - has all it's rain
> in one night once a decade.
I was right again, you will need a bridge.
Cory Bhreckan
Interesting, a spelling flame from Bruce. What is the world coming to?
Fred J. McCall
:In article <90bvi4d4aaeu7t8id...@4ax.com>,
:
There are even people who will add it to whisky! Horrors!!!
Adam Whyte-Settlar
>
> "Adam Whyte-Settlar" <ador@ble> wrote in message
> news:5bOdnfYzOKgJT7LU...@westnet.com.au...
>> "Séimí mac Liam" <gwy...@comcast.nospam.net> wrote in message
>
>>> our professional forester when we need him?
>>
>> If you mean me I'm not a 'forester' and never have been.
>
> I distinctly remember your stating you had "Single Handedly" planted half
> the trees in Western Scotland.
> If that does not qualify you as a forester, what does?
That was way back in my youth when I was a mere peasant tree-planting
contractor.
I skipped the forester level and went straight from there to consultant via
Uni'.
Adam Whyte-Settlar
Blinkered in the sense of 'those who will not see' in that Arklet is a sad
and tragic wasteland long ago denuded of all it's once rich flora and fauna.
'Clowns' in the sense of blundering in without thinking - sort of
tragi-comedic.