Fraser, Frasier, Frazier
Gary Frazier
related, how they came to be spelled different, and what their
relationship to a home clan is?
I've often wondered about all this, and I hope that someone can shed some
light on this for me, here or in email if you prefer!
Gary
Militant Scot/Englishman/Hollander/German/Amerind etc, etc, etc...
Harry W. Duckworth
also get "Frazer" sometimes. There's probably no good explanation for
the variability - the name was unfamiliar to Englishmen in the 17th and
early 18th century (until Lord Lovat's execution in 1747 made it a
household word), and different spellings were used depending on what
people thought they were hearing.
In principle, all people with these surnames belong to the same clan,
with its home lands in the Aird and Stratherrick, Inverness-shire.
I'm interested in Fraser families of the 18th century in Scotland, and in
Canada, and would like to correspond with anyone having the same sort of
interests.
Harry Duckworth
hdc...@cc.umanitoba.ca
Gary Frazier
Harry, thanks for the info! Does the Lovat clan HQ (or whatever) have
more information on how the clan "broke up" into the variants? Since I
know that there have been "Fraziers" in NA since the time of the
revolution, it can't be an Ellis Island bureaucrat sort of thing.
Perhaps back when literacy was touch and go the variations were created by
phonetic changes?
My own research indicates that the entire magilla (Fraser, Frasier, Frazer,
Frazier) derives originally from the Frisian Islands along the N coasts of
The Netherlands and Germany. Can you confirm this, or at least point me
in the right direction to inquire further?
Thanks, Gary
mea...@violet.berkeley.edu
Harry W. Duckworth <hdc...@cc.umanitoba.ca> wrote:
>They're all just variants of the same name, normally spelled Fraser. You
>also get "Frazer" sometimes. There's probably no good explanation for
>the variability - the name was unfamiliar to Englishmen in the 17th and
>early 18th century (until Lord Lovat's execution in 1747 made it a
>household word), and different spellings were used depending on what
>people thought they were hearing.
Well, it seems a bit more involved than that, at least in the US. My
mother-in-law's maiden name is Jane Frazer, my wife's name is Edith
Frazer Summers, and we named our son Frazer Meacham. Their Frazers are
from Kentucky back to the 1700s. We pronounce the name with a 'zh',
like the relatives in Kentucky do. But I understand that in Scotland
the name is just pronounced with a 'z'. I have always thought that the
spellings 'Frasier' and 'Frazier' tended to be used by those who pronounced
the name with the 'zh', while 'Fraser' and 'Frazer' tended to be used by
those who pronounced the name with a 'z'.
It seems easy to slip back and forth between the two pronunciations.
My wife had never noticed that although she and her mother pronounced the
name with a 'zh' like all the Kentucky relatives, her father and sister
used a 'z'.
They believe they are descended from the Frasers of Lovat, coming to this
country in the mid-1700s. How do other people with the name
Fraser/Frazer/Frasier/Frazier pronounce it?
Chris Meacham
Eric M. Reed
wrote:
> They believe they are descended from the Frasers of Lovat, coming to this
> country in the mid-1700s. How do other people with the name
> Fraser/Frazer/Frasier/Frazier pronounce it?
My family pronounces it with a 'z'.
Gary Frazier
Bruce, thanks! I suspected that the spellings were changed due to low
levels of literacy and differing methods of transliteration, and your
info seems to confirm this suspcion.
Gary
David Fraser
I have just joined this newsgroup and missed "Harry's info".
As a Fraser who is resident in Scotland I suppose I ought to be an expert on
the clan history. Well, sorry. I'm not.
I've got some info at home, which I'll try and bring in.
There tend to be contradictions all over the place.
What I can remember off-hand about the origins: (of course, there's lots
of contradiction between sources)
The first Frasers to reach Britain were Normans and hit England in 1066.
As a child, King David I of Scots, lived in England and had many Norman
friends. When he was crowned he brought a lot of Norman families up with
him. Including the de Brus (aka ancestors of Robert The Bruce),
de Baliol and a lot more. I'm not sure whether the Frasers arrived just then.
But certainly, by the time of Robert The Bruce (c1300), there were Frasers
about. One of them was a close friend of Bruce and assisted him in the
War of Independence.
Initially, there were Frasers in the south of Scotland. And my dad told me
tales of them being fine sheep-stealers. However, they seem to have faded
away down there and re-appeared in strength in the north, especially along
the shores of Loch Ness (near Inverness).
There's more, but that's enough for now. I'll try and get my facts straight.
By the way, "Fraser" is generally how the name is spelt in Scotland.
When you get into England, I think that "Frazer" happens a bit more often.
As a kid, I was once in Inverness and pointed out how to spell my name.
I got a very strange look, which I didn't understand at the time. :-)
I suspect that "Frazier" is very much a North American phenomenon.
Looking at the Edinburgh phone book, there are some 1200 Frasers, 18 Frazers
and no Frasiers or Fraziers.
bye for now,
David
--
David Fraser, Spider Software, | e-mail: dav...@spider.co.uk
Spider Park, Stanwell Street, | abuse: +44 31 555 5166 ext 4733
Edinburgh EH6 5NG, Scotland. /\oo/\ "Life is uncertain, eat dessert first"
Jim Fraser
My family pronounces the name FRASER like "Frasier", as in the current
TV show character.
Jim Fraser
** finger j...@shore.net for PGP public key
David Fraser
>In article <emr2-091...@132.236.29.39>,
>em...@cornell.edu (Eric M. Reed) wrote:
>> In article <39oen7$8...@agate.berkeley.edu>, mea...@violet.berkeley.edu ()
>> wrote:
>>
>> > They believe they are descended from the Frasers of Lovat, coming to this
>> > country in the mid-1700s. How do other people with the name
>> > Fraser/Frazer/Frasier/Frazier pronounce it?
>>
>> My family pronounces it with a 'z'.
>
>
>My family pronounces the name FRASER like "Frasier", as in the current
>TV show character.
>
As I think, I mentioned before, on a recent trip to the U.S. I found my name
being pronounced in that way. It was so bugging! Personally I blame Joe the
boxer.