****** URGENT!!! ********** Burial rite info needed immediately!!!!!!!
Desperate Scot
done right!
My grandfather has passed away and the burial is TOMORROW!!!!
No one involved in the burial has any clue regarding the proper burial
rites for the clan. Does anyone have any details regarding burial
rites for the MacGregor clan? I want him to be buried properly and
have almost no time to gather the info. This is the first family
member's burial I have been involved in and I want the rites to be
adhered to properly.
HELP!!!!!!!!
Sean MacUisdin
Not to sound flippant, and I'm sorry for your loss, but off the top of
my head, a wake would not be out of place.
--
Air muir 's air tir,
Sean of Clan Uisdin
-------------------
If anyone is looking for Sean of Clan Uisdin, he can be found in the
bathtub mulling over his thoughts wi' a dram o' Glen Ord.
Remove 'mac' to reply.
... The heroes of the race of Conn are dead,
How bitter to our hearts is the grief for them!
We shall not live long after them,
Perilous we think it to be bereaved of the brotherhood!
Cathal MacMhuirich
"Well, I'm sick of this room and everyone in it!" - Bender
"Everything's gone wrong since Canada came along!" - MAC (Mothers
against Canada)
Akins of that Ilk
"Desperate Scot" <jangle...@soon.com> wrote in message
news:h9fpss44sjk16qqm3...@4ax.com...
> I've been put in an incredibly awkward position and want things to be
> done right!
>
> My grandfather has passed away and the burial is TOMORROW!!!!
>
> No one involved in the burial has any clue regarding the proper burial
> rites for the clan. Does anyone have any details regarding burial
> rites for the MacGregor clan? I want him to be buried properly and
> have almost no time to gather the info. This is the first family
> member's burial I have been involved in and I want the rites to be
> adhered to properly.
>
> HELP!!!!!!!!
There are no set rituals regarding death and funeral services for Scots,
particularly in this day and age. It was traditional in the Hebrides for the
departed to be carried to the grave in their coffin on the shoulders of
their male kinsmen, while the women stayed behind. A piper at the graveside
would not be out of place, and would make a nice addition to the service,
but all in all, most Scottish funerals are very much the same as funeral
services in other European or English-speaking parts of the world. You can
wear a kilt if you wish, but it is entirely optional.
Glenallan
are required. A wake would be inappropriate for a Presbyterian.
A Freemason's funeral service may well include the well known
hymn "Abide With Me"
Glenallan
-------------
"Akins of that Ilk" <sja...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:9L3z5.19411$Ao3....@news1.atl...
Alexander Maclennan
coffin and close family and friends symbolically lowering the coffib into
the grave is purely Scottish. A meal served to the close friends and family
is usual and sometimes there is a more open invitation, particularly if the
deceased has wished for it. The old tradition was a dram and oatcake
served after the burial in the graveyard, a horizontal gravestone serving as
a table. This was still observed in country churchyards in my lifetime.
Sometime the mourners completed the filling in too but that is long gone.
--
Alexander MacLennan sand...@sandymac.demon.co.uk
Robert McKay
>immediately!!!!!!!
>From: Desperate Scot jangle...@soon.com
>Date: 9/23/00 8:29 AM Mountain Daylight Time
>No one involved in the burial has any clue regarding the proper burial
>rites for the clan. Does anyone have any details regarding burial
>rites for the MacGregor clan? I want him to be buried properly and
>have almost no time to gather the info. This is the first family
>member's burial I have been involved in and I want the rites to be
>adhered to properly.
I would say the first question is, what did he want? I'd take that into
consideration above all else.
Beyond that, AFAIK there aren't any clan-specific burial ceremonies, though I
could be completely wrong on this. The only funerals I've ever been to or
participated in were standard Baptist funerals.
Robert McKay
AOL - Goffs California, E-mail - goffsca...@aol.com
http://hometown.aol.com/goffscalifornia/AllAmateurPage.html
Majestic sweetness sits enthroned upon the Savior's brow
Robert McKay
>immediately!!!!!!!
>From: sand...@sandymac.demon.co.uk (Alexander Maclennan)
>Date: 9/23/00 11:44 AM Mountain Daylight Time
It seems I spoke better than a knew a minute ago when I said I could be
completely wrong on the subject. :-/
Akins of that Ilk
"Glenallan" <RMB...@clydesdale.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8qinch$p4u$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Mr Akins is quite correct. No 'out of the ordinary' arrangements
> are required. A wake would be inappropriate for a Presbyterian.
>
> A Freemason's funeral service may well include the well known
> hymn "Abide With Me"
Which, by the way, is an excellent piece for the pipes. Delving a bit
further into the subject, I did come across the following which may be of
interest:
"As late as 1826, when Glengarry died in the wreck of a steamer off the
coast near Fort William, the pomp of a horse-drawn hearse was denied him by
his clansmen furious at the offence that would be given to the ancient
proprieties. In keeping with tradition, the clan chief was borne to his
grave, carried shoulder high, by the hands of his own people. Full
ceremonials were acorded Glengarry's corpse, and the occassion of his burial
was ornamented by an appropriate flash of lightening and peal of thunder
that counterpointed the wailing of "Ochone, ochone" by his loyal kinsmen."
- The Scots, by Iain Finlayson
"At a chief's or chieftain's funeral his great-flag is laid on the coffin
along with the chief's/chieftain's sword, if any, and tartan plaid.
Immediately before the coffin are borne claymore, carrying banner and/or
pinsel."
- Scottish Clans and Tartans, first published about 1891
Glenallan
> coffin and close family and friends symbolically lowering the coffib into
> the grave is purely Scottish.
The above custom is observed, and younger representatives of the wider
family will honour the deceased.
Leaving aside the horizontal gravestone, the meal is almost obligatory in
Scotland. Sorry, maybe I should have explained this. It need only be
amongst the very close family.
The clergyman is always invited and he may well attend for a short period.
It is a time of great stillness and reverence.
Glenallan
-------------
"Alexander Maclennan" <sand...@sandymac.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:n02A...@sandymac.demon.co.uk...
> I`m uncertain whether the practice of having eight cords attached to the
> coffin and close family and friends symbolically lowering the coffib into
> the grave is purely Scottish. A meal served to the close friends and
family
> is usual and sometimes there is a more open invitation, particularly if
the
> deceased has wished for it. The old tradition was a dram and oatcake
> served after the burial in the graveyard, a horizontal gravestone serving
as
> a table. This was still observed in country churchyards in my lifetime.
> Sometime the mourners completed the filling in too but that is long gone.
>
> --
>
> Alexander MacLennan sand...@sandymac.demon.co.uk
SilntThnkr
>> I`m uncertain whether the practice of having eight cords attached to the
>> coffin and close family and friends symbolically lowering the coffib into
>> the grave is purely Scottish.
>
>The above custom is observed, and younger representatives of the wider
>family will honour the deceased.
>Leaving aside the horizontal gravestone, the meal is almost obligatory in
>Scotland. Sorry, maybe I should have explained this. It need only be
>amongst the very close family.
>
>The clergyman is always invited and he may well attend for a short period.
>
>It is a time of great stillness and reverence.
>Glenallan
>-------------
As opposed to an Irish wake where there is lots of drinking? LOL
-David of the Clan Gunn
LOGGER_O
A custom in my family, We bury our dead Men and Women with a tartan sash,
and the clan badge. The children place a flower (Thistle is available) on
the casket. The mourners lower the casket, and begin to fill in the dirt.
(we used to dig the grave when we were younger, but most cemeteries don't
allow that anymore). We have a dinner with drink to honor the dead, and
stay until all are tired and must leave.
When my sister passed away, there was a young minister who had been her
paster of parish. We were talking about her as though she was still with
us, and the minister was obiviously upset. I explained to him that she was
still with us in spirit, and would have enjoyed to jocularity at her
expense.
Iain...
Now you are all going to think I am this wierd chap from the Colonies.
Don't forget the Lone Piper and Amazing grace is the tune of choice.
Lesley Robertson
> > I`m uncertain whether the practice of having eight cords attached to the
> > coffin and close family and friends symbolically lowering the coffib
into
> > the grave is purely Scottish.
>
> The above custom is observed, and younger representatives of the wider
> family will honour the deceased.
Having helped with three funerals in Scotland in the past 5 years, I can say
that the situation is very flexible, depending on the wishes of the family.
My Uncle's ashes were buried with those of his late wife - and the box was
lowered into the ground by 4 cords. My other Aunt's ashes were scattered in
a private ceremony.
My brother piped at the funeral of one Aunt, at the request of my Uncle, but
there was no piper at the other two funerals. One Aunt had expressed a
desire for simplicity.
> Leaving aside the horizontal gravestone, the meal is almost obligatory in
> Scotland. Sorry, maybe I should have explained this. It need only be
> amongst the very close family.
> The clergyman is always invited and he may well attend for a short period.
> It is a time of great stillness and reverence.
Not in our family - two out of the three had funeral lunches in a nearby
hotel - attended by friends and neighbours, and characterized by the volume
of the talk - about whoever was being buried, everyone's families, and
everyone's ailments. When organising my Uncle's, the funeral director told
us that about half the people he deals with have meals.
Since the postee only asked on the day before the funeral was to be, none of
this is going to be much use!
Lesley Robertson
SilntThnkr
particulary interesting burial rites while doing the many hours of research
that seems to charactorize the people of this NG? I mean either Celtic, Pic,
Scots, Norse(my clan), or any of the other people that have contributed to
modern Scotland. Or of any particulary interesting funerals from families of
Scotland since it has been united? Or been to any interesting/old cemtaries
they would like to share with us. I took my daughter and her friend to a
cemetary recently to take pictures for thier photography class in school. My
children and I used to drive long distances to visit some of the smaller more
interesting cemetaries in the area. I know that many people here have visited
them to get genelogical information. It seems no matter where you go you will
always find a group of stones that will have 6 or 7 members of a same family
who dies at the same time. It makes you think about what tragedy may have
caused this (fire, plague, indian attack?). You see many stones where the
birth and the death are only one or two years apart or where it seems the
average age of those buried is around 40 or 45 (especially on the older stones)
and it makes you remember how difficult just stayiing alive was even one or two
hundred years ago, let alone 7 or 8 hundred.
LOGGER_O
"SilntThnkr" wrote
I believe that you will find traditions that change with the times. Seems
that there is always someone with a group of people that does most of the
work in a family when it comes to the organization of these things. The
head of our family filling this function is my Brother Jerry. I was placing
the stone at my Mothers Grave when he made me promise to take care of him
and his wife in the same manner. He really didn't need to secure the
promise, as I would have anyway, however it did make him feel better.
Iain...
Incidentally have you noticed that many grave in cemeteries have the stones
facing east?
Bob
Bothwell Parish Church, only 500 yards from where I am seated right now is
just such a magnificent ecclesiastical site with two churches, joined in the
middle with a "four pointed tower", and surrounded by a graveyard of great
antiquity. The earlier church, almost uniquely intact dates from the 14th
Century, whilst the newer post Reformation Church dates from the 17th
Century. The rear of the Church is a designated site of archaeological
interest, and every now and then an artefact of our early Christian history
is unearthed.
The 'old' church is The Collegiate Church of St Bride, founded in 1398 by
Archibald the Grim, third Earl of Douglas and resident of Bothwell Castle
who is buried within the churchyard.
By the way, it may be of interest to you to know that I live on the edge of,
if not actually on, the battlefield of The Battle of Bothwell Bridge. The
Bridge and the River Clyde are only 300 yards away, and both the Bridge and
the Churches as well as many of the gravestones and my own house are formed
of the same indigenous red sandstone. Indeed this red sandstone is a feature
of the 'Village'. The actual camphill, (where now sits the Camphill
Vaults...a pub) is only 300 yards away also. Last year on my property I
came across a rusted sword about 4 feet long. I sort of half wondered if it
is a left over from the Battle. Your timely post has jogged my memory on
this and I must visit the curator of Hamilton Museum.
Inside the 'old' church there are stones and relics predating even the Roman
Catholic Church, which are typical of the ancient Celtic Christian Church.
These stones have the typical 'ringed' designs of the Celts.
The Church is always in great demand for high-falootin' weddings because of
its beautiful setting, and the buildings are a focal point at night where
the buttresses and 'gothic' windows are lit from below...presenting an eerie
spectacle to the exiting patrons of The Douglas Arms, of a winter evening, I
can tell you. ;-)
Maybe I'll take a walk around to the graveyard during the week and report
back to you, by way of the Douglas Arms of course.
Cheers
Glenallan
-------------
"SilntThnkr" <silnt...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000924103400...@ng-fz1.aol.com...
Steve Morrill
have been involed in burial details from time to time... It was explained to
me that the dead are buried with their feet to the east, so that when Christ
returns ( in the east) that the dead will rise up to meet him.
Steve
LOGGER_O <LOGG...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:uxEmnrkJAHA.324@cpmsnbbsa09...
SilntThnkr
Glenallan, that would be most appreciated.
Of course where I live a cemetary is considered old if it is from the mid 19th
century. I am of course talking about european type not native american. LOL
I guess it puts things into perspective huh? In the East they probably have
them from the 16th Century but you don't get much older then that here in the
'new' world unless you go native.
Tiss
Tiss
Glenallan wrote:
> Mr Akins is quite correct. No 'out of the ordinary' arrangements
> are required. A wake would be inappropriate for a Presbyterian.
>
> A Freemason's funeral service may well include the well known
> hymn "Abide With Me"
>
> Glenallan
> -------------
>
> "Akins of that Ilk" <sja...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:9L3z5.19411$Ao3....@news1.atl...
> >
> > "Desperate Scot" <jangle...@soon.com> wrote in message
> > news:h9fpss44sjk16qqm3...@4ax.com...
> > > I've been put in an incredibly awkward position and want things to be
> > > done right!
> > >
> > > My grandfather has passed away and the burial is TOMORROW!!!!
> > >
> > > No one involved in the burial has any clue regarding the proper burial
> > > rites for the clan. Does anyone have any details regarding burial
> > > rites for the MacGregor clan? I want him to be buried properly and
> > > have almost no time to gather the info. This is the first family
> > > member's burial I have been involved in and I want the rites to be
> > > adhered to properly.
> > >
Tiss
SilntThnkr wrote:
Of course. It's to wish the deceased a happy trip to heaven.
Tiss
Tiss
LOGGER_O wrote:
I knew it!! Ye are part Irish.
Tiss
Tiss
LOGGER_O wrote:
> "SilntThnkr" wrote
> I believe that you will find traditions that change with the times. Seems
> that there is always someone with a group of people that does most of the
> work in a family when it comes to the organization of these things. The
> head of our family filling this function is my Brother Jerry. I was placing
> the stone at my Mothers Grave when he made me promise to take care of him
> and his wife in the same manner. He really didn't need to secure the
> promise, as I would have anyway, however it did make him feel better.
>
> Iain...
>
> Incidentally have you noticed that many grave in cemeteries have the stones
> facing east?
Didn't we have this discussion some time ago? Did we ever reach a conclusion?
We also discussed some rather odd burial customs.
Tiss
Tiss
Bob wrote:
snip
Very interesting. Also interesting is the term "high falootin'." I thought
that was an American term.
Did I mention that we have a "Bothwell Castle" here in Missouri? It was built
in the late 1800's by a Scot by the name of Bothwell. I forgot what business he
was in, but he was a philanthropist. The house is built into the side of a
large hill.
Tiss
Tiss
Tiss
Steve Morrill wrote:
> As a law enforcement officer and a member of our department's honor guard, I
> have been involed in burial details from time to time... It was explained to
> me that the dead are buried with their feet to the east, so that when Christ
> returns ( in the east) that the dead will rise up to meet him.
>
> Steve
>
> LOGGER_O <LOGG...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
> news:uxEmnrkJAHA.324@cpmsnbbsa09...
>
Odysseus
"LOGGER_O" <LOGG...@email.msn.com> wrote:
>
> Now you are all going to think I am this wierd chap from the Colonies.
> Don't forget the Lone Piper and Amazing grace is the tune of choice.
>
"Lochaber No More" or "The Flowers of the Forest" would be more traditional
(and IMHO much more suitable) tunes for the occasion.
__________
--Odysseus
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Jim Stewart
Tiss <ejth...@i1.net> wrote in message news:39CEF120...@i1.net...
> A wake is usually is what the Irish Catholics observe.
>
> Tiss
>
> Glenallan wrote:
>
> > Mr Akins is quite correct. No 'out of the ordinary' arrangements
> > are required. A wake would be inappropriate for a Presbyterian.
> >
> > A Freemason's funeral service may well include the well known
> > hymn "Abide With Me"
> >
> > Glenallan
> > -------------
A freemason's ceremoney is elaborate and unique. There was a reinactment of
George Washington's four hour funeral on TV. It involved his entire lodge.
This is very different from the average funeral.
It is done for free, upon request of the next of kin. Of course proof that
the man was in good standing is required.
Jim Stewart
Jamie McDonell
Let's just say Catholics.
When I was growing up in a (mainly) Highland Catholic community here in
Canada, wakes were major events. They still are, though the community is
now more mixed, culturally.
Threeboars
> I believe the ancient Egyptians believed that too.
>
> Tiss
The ancient Egyptians were christian???
--
Regards,
3B
"Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects." - - Will Rogers
"He, who will not reason, is a bigot; he, who cannot, is a fool; and he, who
dares not, is a slave." - - William Drummond, Laird of Hawthornden
Akins of that Ilk
"Tiss" <ejth...@i1.net> wrote in message news:39CEF7C6...@i1.net...
> > Incidentally have you noticed that many grave in cemeteries have the
stones
> > facing east?
>
> Didn't we have this discussion some time ago? Did we ever reach a
conclusion?
> We also discussed some rather odd burial customs.
It started out as a pre-christian pagan tradition - the sun rises in the
east every morning, and so the association of renewal of life/ressurection
is associated with the sun, hence graves have traditionally been laid out so
that the dead would face east were they to rise up as does the sun every
morning. The christians merely adopted the pagan practice, along with many
of the pagan festivals and customs.
LOGGER_O
"Threeboars wrote
: Tiss wrote:
: > I believe the ancient Egyptians believed that too.
: >
: > Tiss
:
: The ancient Egyptians were christian???
I think not, but then again they may have been part Jewish? VBG...
Iain...
LOGGER_O
"Tiss wrote
snip
:
: I knew it!! Ye are part Irish.
:
: Tiss
GGGrandma Rebeca Tanner Fisher Hand was, so it tis true...
Iain...
LOGGER_O
: "Tiss" wrote
: > > Incidentally have you noticed that many grave in cemeteries
have the
: stones
: > > facing east?
: >
: > Didn't we have this discussion some time ago? Did we ever reach a
: conclusion?
: > We also discussed some rather odd burial customs.
: It started out as a pre-christian pagan tradition - the sun rises in
the
: east every morning, and so the association of renewal of
life/ressurection
: is associated with the sun, hence graves have traditionally been
laid out so
: that the dead would face east were they to rise up as does the sun
every
: morning. The christians merely adopted the pagan practice, along
with many
: of the pagan festivals and customs.
And I thought it was so you could drive by on the east and read all
the tomb stones without getting out of your car. Go figure!
Iain...
LOGGER_O
:
: "Tiss wrote
: snip
: :
: : I knew it!! Ye are part Irish.
: :
: : Tiss
:
: GGGrandma Rebeca Tanner Fisher Hand was, so it tis true...
:
: Iain...
:
Clarification! She was part Irish, (the Fisher part that came from
MD) The Fishers were also quite Catholic! What a marriage union.
The Tanners were instrumental in the beginnings of the Baptist Church,
and later some were involved in the Seventh Day Baptist, the
Millerites, which later became the present day Seventh Day Adventist.
Tanner married a Fisher, he was a Baptist Minister, she a Catholic.
The children were raised Catholic, but later converted to Luthern.
Iain...
Akins of that Ilk
They do. I have visited dozens of old cemeteries in doing genealogical
research and have noted how things change from one generation to another. In
the Carolinas where some of my earliest ancestors are buried, it was not
uncommon for the graves to be marked by a fairly nice monuments, even as
early as the 1700's, and these were often made of soapstone and decorated
with family coats of arms, or other devices, including thistles, along with
dour, sometimes morbid epitaphs. In more southern areas, such as Alabama,
you see a variety of different traditions. Many of the oldest graves here
were covered with rectangular cairns of rocks that had been roughly chiseld
into blocks and stacked without mortar to form a box over the grave, often
two or three feet high by four feet wide, by eight feet long. Later it
became a fashion to have the grave covered with a roof made from smooth
slabs of sandstone that had been pitched at an angle like the roof of a
house, with triangular gabled ends, at which were placed the head and
footstones. Often the headstones, which were also made of local sandstone,
would be as much as six or seven feet in height above the ground, and two or
three feet broad, but were more usually only about three feet or so in
height and 1 1/2 to 2 feet across. If the deceased was a Mason, the monument
would be inscribed with symbolic masonic emblems, such as a square, level,
trowel, etc. Occassionally in rural areas you will see actual wooden
structures built over graves with a gabel roof supported by four posts some
seven or eight feet above the grave. These would sometimes be surrounded by
an intregal fence of pickets. During the Victorian period in the later part
of the 19th century, marble tombstones became fashionable and these were
often designed in the form of obilisks, pillars, and arches and would
include stylized decorations and sentimental epitaphs. Ornamental cast-iorn
fences became fashionable around that time too, and would be placed around
family lots or sometimes around a single grave. In my own lifetime I can
recall as a child going with my grandparents to get clean sand and bringing
it to the cemetery to cover the graves of my great grandparents in
preparation for the gaudy ritual of "decoration day", an annual observance
in May on which the community would gather at the cemetery and place floral
arrangements (mostly artificial ones) on the graves of family members. This
often evolved into a sort of unspoken competition as to who could come up
with the most elaborate floral arrangements and resulted in an extravaganza
of immitation flowers covering the entire cemetery. After the graves were
decorated, people would wander around the cemetery renewing old
acquaintances and would sometimes partake of a communal dinner on the church
grounds, or would go home with relatives to have small family reunions
around their own dinner tables.
anne.burgess
> : > > Incidentally have you noticed that many grave in cemeteries have
the
> : stones facing east?
> And I thought it was so you could drive by on the east and read all
> the tomb stones without getting out of your car. Go figure!
And I thought it was just to make it difficult to get decent photographs of
the inscriptions ...
Anne B
Todd
They were amazing people, Moses must have carried their wisdom when he
departed.
Todd
Todd
> > Didn't we have this discussion some time ago? Did we ever reach a
> conclusion?
> > We also discussed some rather odd burial customs.
>
> It started out as a pre-christian pagan tradition - the sun rises in the
> east every morning, and so the association of renewal of life/ressurection
> is associated with the sun, hence graves have traditionally been laid out so
> that the dead would face east were they to rise up as does the sun every
> morning. The christians merely adopted the pagan practice, along with many
> of the pagan festivals and customs.
This is true with many ancient sites as well. If soccer pitches were
to remain intact for thousands of years after a period where humans were
almost extict, the growing population may wonder why the nets face
north/south.
Todd
Todd
They may dismiss it as being part of our religious practices, much of
what we discuss is not proven without a doubt to be fact.
Todd
Micheil
<RMB...@clydesdale.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>Mr Akins is quite correct. No 'out of the ordinary' arrangements
>are required. A wake would be inappropriate for a Presbyterian.
Speak for the Lowlands!
>A Freemason's funeral service may well include the well known
>hymn "Abide With Me"
>
>Glenallan
- měcheil
- innis dhomh sgéile mu 'n Thěr nan Ňg...
Lesley Robertson
>
> "Tiss wrote
> snip
> :
> : I knew it!! Ye are part Irish.
> :
> : Tiss
>
> GGGrandma Rebeca Tanner Fisher Hand was, so it tis true...
>
> Iain...
>
from sunny Queen's County....
Lesley Robertson
Lachie Macquarie
<RMB...@clydesdale.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>Mr Akins is quite correct. No 'out of the ordinary' arrangements
>are required. A wake would be inappropriate for a Presbyterian.
>
Bet my grandfather was extraordinarily pissed off then. It went on for a
good few days allegedly. He was TT and everybody found it to be quite
amusing to be celebrating his life with copious amounts of whisky.
>A Freemason's funeral service may well include the well known
>hymn "Abide With Me"
>
>Glenallan
>-------------
--
Lachie Macquarie, Bod an Deamhain I wish.
Micheil
I don't think I've ever been to a Scottish funeral, Highland or
Lowland, Presbyterian or Catholic, where everyone wasn't pissed out of
their tits. John Knox must have been an unspeakably boring arsehole,
considering that he invented Presbyterianism; a religion based on the
awful fear that somewhere, somebody may be having fun and worse, may
escape punishment for enjoying it.
anne.burgess
"Micheil" wrote
> I don't think I've ever been to a Scottish funeral, Highland or
> Lowland, Presbyterian or Catholic, where everyone wasn't pissed out of
> their tits.
I've never been to one where anyone _was_ p****d. Every funeral I have been
to was a very sober occasion.
> John Knox must have been an unspeakably boring arsehole,
> considering that he invented Presbyterianism; a religion based on the
> awful fear that somewhere, somebody may be having fun and worse, may
> escape punishment for enjoying it.
Now there I am in complete agreement.
Anne
Lachie Macquarie
<anne.b...@newscientist.net> writes
The last funeral I attended was under the shadow of the Lagavulin
distillery, drink was taken.
Bryn Fraser
<Lac...@lachiemacq.demon.co.uk> writes
OK... So who stole the millstones.....
Bryn Fraser
To the Phenomenologist, legend is an artifact.
Anne Jackson
from Tiss <ejth...@i1.net> contains these words:
> > As a law enforcement officer and a member of our department's honor guard, I
> > have been involed in burial details from time to time... It was explained to
> > me that the dead are buried with their feet to the east, so that when Christ
> > returns ( in the east) that the dead will rise up to meet him.
> I believe the ancient Egyptians believed that too.
The "ancient Egyptians" believed that they would rise up to meet Christ?
Awa' wi' ye!!
Anne
Lesley Robertson
"Lachie Macquarie" <Lac...@lachiemacq.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:rHBdcKAO$j05...@lachiemacq.demon.co.uk...
> The last funeral I attended was under the shadow of the Lagavulin
> distillery, drink was taken.
> --
OK, where did you hide the barrels?
SCS needs to know.
Lesley Robertson
Joe Makowiec
They needed to drain one to make a suitable burial container for the
dearly departed...
<gdr>
--------------------
Sorry for the jammed e-mail address.
Joe Makowiec can be reached at:
makowiec(at)nycap.rr.com
Micheil
<pan...@panloaf.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>On Wed, 27 Sep 2000 11:05:27 GMT, Mic...@Ireland.com (Micheil) wrote:
>
>>I don't think I've ever been to a Scottish funeral, Highland or
>>Lowland, Presbyterian or Catholic, where everyone wasn't pissed out of
>>their tits. John Knox must have been an unspeakably boring arsehole,
>>considering that he invented Presbyterianism; a religion based on the
>>awful fear that somewhere, somebody may be having fun and worse, may
>>escape punishment for enjoying it.
>
>The getting pissed out ones tits is normally after the funeral. Even
>I kept the hipflask firmly in my pocket until we'd got into the car
>after my fathers funeral.
>
>Pan Loaf <pan...@panloaf.fsnet.co.uk>
I suppose when you start drinking depends on how much the deceased
owed you but hadn't paid back...
I've buried a few pay packets in my time!
Kitten
(SilntThnkr) writes:
>Of course where I live a cemetary is considered old if it is from the mid
>19th
>century. I am of course talking about european type not native american.
>LOL
>I guess it puts things into perspective huh? In the East they probably have
>them from the 16th Century but you don't get much older then that here in the
>'new' world unless you go native.
One of the nicest buildings we have here in Paisley is the Abbey which was
built circa 1200s and was the seat of the Stewarts. A monk known as St Mirrin,
built a small church near the bank of the River Cart 600 years earlier and the
Abbey is believed to be built on the same site. Within the Abbey walls are
many interesting gravestones. I haven't looked around for a while but I'm
certain Marjorie Bruce (daughter of Robert I (the Bruce) and mother of the
first Stewart King, Robert II) is buried here. She died at a Paisley roadside
after falling off her horse, her son was born by c-section within minutes of
that fall.
sla\inte
Kitten
Guma fada be/o thu is ce/o as ur taigh
Lang may yer lum reek :-)
Kitten
(SilntThnkr) writes:
>Or of any particulary interesting funerals from families of
>Scotland since it has been united?
My paternal grandmother's funeral was different to the other family ones. When
visiting my aunt in hospital after a cornea transplant, my gran befriended a
fellow heilander who'd just had a kidney transplant and was doing well. My
gran thought it great that our bits 'n' pieces could save someone's life after
we're gone. She got to talking about this with her doctor. He told her that
because of her great age and many illnesses, her bits 'n' pieces couldn't be
used for transplants but would be useful to medical students. So, she decided
to donate her body to science, the University of Strathclyde to be exact.
My gran died in hospital. The hospital called my uncle to inform him, he
phoned round the rest of the family. Within half an hour, the family arrived
at the hospital church where the chaplin said a few words and a prayer, a piper
played her favourite tune (the Dark Isle) as the coffin was carried out to the
waiting ambulance which then drove to the university. The service lasted only
a few minutes and, at my gran's request, only her sons and daughters attended.
Incidentally, the young piper was a nurse with whom my gran had already made
arrangements.
The university would do whatever they do with the body and when finished,
they'd have a small service in line with the deceased's religion, attended by
students and members of the faculty, before disposing of the body by cremation.
They do not invite nor inform the deceased's family as the funeral might not
take place until a few years after the death. This was explained to my gran in
detail and was written in the papers she, her doctor and I believe, two
witnesses had to sign.
Glenallan
> they'd have a small service in line with the deceased's religion, attended
by
> students and members of the faculty, before disposing of the body by
cremation.
In the case of my own father, I was informed some 30 years ago,
of a similar procedure when I enquired that his body be treated
with due respect. I was given helpfull assurance.
"Kitten" <pis...@aol.commonsense> wrote in message
news:20001004115657...@nso-fo.aol.com...
Kitten
<RMB...@clydesdale.freeserve.co.uk> writes:
>> The university would do whatever they do with the body and when finished,
>> they'd have a small service in line with the deceased's religion, attended
>by
>> students and members of the faculty, before disposing of the body by
>cremation.
>
>In the case of my own father, I was informed some 30 years ago,
>of a similar procedure when I enquired that his body be treated
>with due respect. I was given helpfull assurance.
As this is something I've thought of myself, I once asked my GP about it. He
told me that he'd attended three such funerals whilst at Uni. He said two were
like any other RC funeral he'd been to, with full mass being given and the
third was a simple ceremony presided over by a senior Professor (the deceased
was athiest). On the forms you sign, they do ask what your religion is so that
they can give you a proper send off. The doc said that students and lecturers
who have "worked" with the deceased are normally the ones who attend and like
any other funeral, tears are shed.
Skene
underground, but I think will bring much happiness to families and members
of those who have been suffering for a long time for transplants.
I hope to live to a hundred - most of my ancestors lived into their late
80's & 90's.
Skeen
> The university would do whatever they do with the body and when finished,
> they'd have a small service in line with the deceased's religion, attended
by
> students and members of the faculty, before disposing of the body by
cremation.
> They do not invite nor inform the deceased's family as the funeral might
not
> take place until a few years after the death. This was explained to my
gran in
> detail and was written in the papers she, her doctor and I believe, two
> witnesses had to sign.
>
Kearney Bothwell
Tiss <ejth...@i1.net> wrote:
>
>
> Bob wrote:
>
> > David,
> >
> > Bothwell Parish Church, only 500 yards from where I am seated right now is
> > just such a magnificent ecclesiastical site with two churches, joined in the
> > middle with a "four pointed tower", and surrounded by a graveyard of great
> > antiquity. The earlier church, almost uniquely intact dates from the 14th
> > Century, whilst the newer post Reformation Church dates from the 17th
> > Century. The rear of the Church is a designated site of archaeological
> > interest, and every now and then an artefact of our early Christian history
> > is unearthed.
> >
> > The 'old' church is The Collegiate Church of St Bride, founded in 1398 by
> > Archibald the Grim, third Earl of Douglas and resident of Bothwell Castle
> > who is buried within the churchyard.
> >
> > By the way, it may be of interest to you to know that I live on the edge of,
> > if not actually on, the battlefield of The Battle of Bothwell Bridge. The
> > Bridge and the River Clyde are only 300 yards away, and both the Bridge and
> > the Churches as well as many of the gravestones and my own house are formed
> > of the same indigenous red sandstone. Indeed this red sandstone is a feature
> > of the 'Village'. The actual camphill, (where now sits the Camphill
> > Vaults...a pub) is only 300 yards away also. Last year on my property I
> > came across a rusted sword about 4 feet long. I sort of half wondered if it
> > is a left over from the Battle. Your timely post has jogged my memory on
> > this and I must visit the curator of Hamilton Museum.
> >
> > Inside the 'old' church there are stones and relics predating even the Roman
> > Catholic Church, which are typical of the ancient Celtic Christian Church.
> > These stones have the typical 'ringed' designs of the Celts.
> >
> > The Church is always in great demand for high-falootin' weddings because of
> > its beautiful setting, and the buildings are a focal point at night where
> > the buttresses and 'gothic' windows are lit from below...presenting an eerie
> > spectacle to the exiting patrons of The Douglas Arms, of a winter evening, I
> > can tell you. ;-)
> >
> > Maybe I'll take a walk around to the graveyard during the week and report
> > back to you, by way of the Douglas Arms of course.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Glenallan
> > -------------
> >
>
> snip
>
> Very interesting. Also interesting is the term "high falootin'." I thought
> that was an American term.
>
> Did I mention that we have a "Bothwell Castle" here in Missouri? It was built
> in the late 1800's by a Scot by the name of Bothwell. I forgot what business he
> was in, but he was a philanthropist. The house is built into the side of a
> large hill.
>
> Tiss
>
>
He was John Homer Bothwell, a lawyer who spent 16 years in the Missouri
Legislature, was a Republican delegate to three national conventions,
including the one that nominated Herbert Hoover for president, financed
$50,000 of the construction of the Hotel Bothwell in downtown Sedalia in
1920. The following year, he donated $100,000 towards the building of the
John H. Bothwell Memorial Hospital in Sedalia (now known as the
Bothwell Regional Health Center). When fire ravaged the Pettis County
Courthouse in 1920, Bothwell led efforts to rebuild the building.
And that's probably more than you ever wanted to know about him. But if
you ant the whole bio, its at: http://kcsun4.kcstar.com/schools/Bothwell/
Kearney Bothwell (no relations to John Homer)
--
For more information on the Bothwell family, check out the Bothwell
Family History and Surname Resource Center at http://www.bothwell.cx
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Before you buy.