MEIKLE family - From what clan?
Patrick Meikle
"Many a mickle makes a muckle"
"Mykill = keeper of the lord's game preserve"
My preliminary research comes up with the above two derivations of our family name (MEIKLE), and suggests that it may go back to circa-1330.
Anyone else out there?
-pwm
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Patrick Meikle is a freelance writer, editor, desktop publisher
and keyboard musician. His background includes: environment,
police(RCMP), national security and intelligence, housing/co-ops,
municipal government, public transit, adult education, music,
consultation in entry-level to computing, freenets and the
Internet, community newspapers and magazines.
He is also the system operator of The Writers'Deadline!!BBS
(613)833-1553/54, and teaches "Freelancing For Magazines"
with the Ottawa Board of Education, continuing education series.
He can also provide translation from English to French.
H:(613)833-1547, Fax:(613)833-1550, E-mail: aa...@freenet.carleton.ca
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|Internet: Patrick...@wd.ccai.com
|Fidonet: Patrick Meikle 1:163/504
EwanMacKen
In article <6e4_960...@ccai.com>, Patrick...@wd.ccai.com (Patrick
Meikle) writes:
>
>"Many a mickle makes a muckle"
>
Mickle and muckle mean the same thing, i.e. a large amount. If mickle is
replaced by pickle ("a grain of corn; any small seed; a small particle; a
small quantity; a few" - Scots Dialect Dictionary) then the saying makes
sense.
Ewan MacKenzie
William J Lamond
In message <50v97u$q...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
ewanm...@aol.com (EwanMacKen) writes:
> Ewan MacKenzie
I have allways known/used the saying as "Monny a mickle maks a
muckle" and the phrase "Just a mickle" would be used to mean a small amount.
--
bill....@zetnet.co.uk
Bill Lamond, Edinburgh, Scotland
EwanMacKen
In article <199609092...@zetnet.co.uk>, William J Lamond
<bill....@zetnet.co.uk> writes:
>I have allways known/used the saying as "Monny a mickle maks a
>muckle" and the phrase "Just a mickle" would be used to mean a small
amount.
>-
Perhaps you would, but a look at a dictionary would confirm that mickle
means much, not little. Of course, language is always changing, so
perhaps it's time the dictionaries were updated if enough people use
mickle to mean a little. I doubt whether that's the case though.
Ewan MacKenzie
William J Lamond
In message <51b22s$d...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
ewanm...@aol.com (EwanMacKen) writes:
> Ewan MacKenzie
Hi Ewan
I would be the last person to claim any authority in any language but
I have taken your advice and looked mickle up in my Collins English
dictionary and it gives the 'helpful!' information that it means a
large ammount but in "Scot. A small amount, esp. in the proverb Many ....".
Bill
--
bill....@zetnet.co.uk
Edinburgh, Scotland
EwanMacKen
In article <199609131...@zetnet.co.uk>, William J Lamond
>> >I have allways known/used the saying as "Monny a mickle maks a
>> >muckle" and the phrase "Just a mickle" would be used to mean a small
>> amount.
>> >-
>
>> Perhaps you would, but a look at a dictionary would confirm that mickle
>> means much, not little. Of course, language is always changing, so
>> perhaps it's time the dictionaries were updated if enough people use
>> mickle to mean a little. I doubt whether that's the case though.
>
>> Ewan MacKenzie
>Hi Ewan
>I would be the last person to claim any authority in any language but
>I have taken your advice and looked mickle up in my Collins English
>dictionary and it gives the 'helpful!' information that it means a
>large ammount but in "Scot. A small amount, esp. in the proverb Many
....".
>Bill
>--
>bill....@zetnet.co.uk
> Edinburgh, Scotland
Now that IS interesting. I, too, am no expert, and I always double
(triple...) check my facts (though not with Collins, alas) before posting
on any subject whatsoever. On the question of the meaning of mickle, I
was fairly sure to start with. Near where I grew up, there were (are) 2
hills, Little Corum and Mickle Corum. Mickle Corum is the larger of the
two; so far so good. When I first came across the saying "Many a mickle
makes a muckle" (and I admit it's a fairly common saying) it obviously
didn't make sense, so being well trained in such matters I expect I'd have
taken a look at a dictionary... as I did last week.
Chambers 20th Century Dictionary (1983) said:
"Mickle (arch.) adj. much; great. -n. a great quantity. -adv. much. Scot.
muckle. - Many a little (or pickle) makes a mickle (often absurdly many a
mickle makes a muckle) every little helps."
The Scots Dialect Dictionary (originally published 1911) said:
"Mickle, adj. great, big; much, abundant; grown-up; eminent, important;
proud, haughty. -adv. much, greatly; very. -n a large amount, a great
deal. Cf. muckle"
So I posted.
I didn't count on Collins having an alternative point of view though.
Clearly, further research was required...
The Concise Oxford (1982) said:
"mickle, muckle, a. & n. (arch. or Sc.) <snip> large amount (in prov. many
a little, or pickle, makes a mickle, or orig. erron. many a mickle makes a
muckle)"
The Oxford English Dictionary (the 20 or so volume one) gave 30 or so
variant spellings and quoted examples of its use from as far back as
825AD. All of the definitions meant "large" or similar, and the following
useful information was given: "In present dialectical use the prevailing
form is muckle; but mickle and meikle are often used by modern Scottish
writers even when their own colloquial dialect has only muckle".
All of this, though, relates primarily to the English language rather than
Scots, so in view of what Collins had to say I looked at some more Scots
dictionaries too; the Scottish National Dictionary, another multi-volume
epic, had 4 pages on muckle, mickle and variants, and included the
following quote from a report in the Huntly Express of 19 Jan 1940:
"He said at the close of his address: 'As the Scots say, and they should
know, mony a mickle mak's a muckle.' As I know Mr Hilton I took the
liberty of telling him that, as the Scots know, he had quoted the proverb
wrongly; that the proverb is 'mony a little mak's a muckle', or 'littles
mak' mickles'."
So, after all that, I feel justified in saying that IMHO, Collins has got
it wrong, at least from a historical viewpoint. Anyone wishing to follow
this thread further, please retune to Alt.Scottish.Lexicology.Pedantry.
Anyway, while I was in the library, I had a look for the surname Meikle in
a book of surnames (best place to look, I thought), in view of the
original poster's question which has never been answered (not on the
newsgroup at any rate). It said:
Meikle, Scots: nickname for a big man, from Older Sc. meikle, mekill,
great, large.
vars.: Mickle; Muckle (Northumb.)
Ewan MacKenzie
Livingston, West Lothian.
Margaret Tarbet
How odd! I learnt it -or at least so my memory says-
from my granny and have said it all my life without
ever once questioning it. She aye said "muckle" to
mean big and so i took it as read that mickle meant
small.
So, in the spirit of this enquiry, i looked up mickle in Mairi
Robinson's _Concise Scots Dictionary_ She classes
it a synonym with muckle, and gives for the saying:
"roughly corresponding to Eng _every little helps_
20(th century) [? altered from _mony a little_]"
ewanm...@aol.com (EwanMacKen) wrote:
> When I first came across the saying "Many a mickle
>makes a muckle" (and I admit it's a fairly common saying)
>it obviously didn't make sense, so being well trained in
>such matters I expect I'd have taken a look at a dictionary
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Carole Wilson
In article <526om2$h...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, EwanMacKen
<ewanm...@aol.com> writes
>
>Meikle, Scots: nickname for a big man, from Older Sc. meikle, mekill,
>great, large.
>
>vars.: Mickle; Muckle (Northumb.)
>
>Ewan MacKenzie
>Livingston, West Lothian.
Ewan,
Black's 'Surnames of Scotland' has examples of several variant spellings
of the names that are recorded in the Scottish records:
Meikle
Mickel
Mickle
Mekle
Mekill
Mykyl
Mykil
Mikil
Meikill
and lastly John Muckle, bellfounder in Glasgow 1693.
So, many a Meikle maks a Muckle, as they say.
Carole
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