MacBain vs MacBean
Norris
Hi:
I am a Beaty descendant, which with earlier ancestors, was spelled
Beattie.
I've learned that Beattie was a name of a sept in the MacBain clan. In
surfing the web, I have found MacBain and MacBean sites that seem to
use each others hero's and history, but yet, have separate web sites.
How are the MacBain's and the MacBean's related, or distinguished from
each other?
Oh, yes, and one more question. I had learned some time ago that
Beattie was a "pet" name for Bartholomew, a Biblical name. So, I
thought it was kind of generic, ie could be found anywhere in the UK.
Is Beattie pretty much of Scottish origin, or, as a derivative of
Bartholomew, could it have generated about anywhere where Latin(?) had
been?
Thanks for your support!
Norris
EMail: Norris Taylor <nm...@ix.netcom.com>
Main Ancestral Lines:
Beaty, Earhart, Feather, Johnston, Millirons,Taylor, Vatter
"Most Wanted" Lines to connect with:
Powers, McCart, McBride, Snodgrass, McCampbell, Brinning
Connoly, Nellist, Fletcher, Donalson
Genealogy Home Page: http://members.aol.com/ntgen/index.html
Allan A MacBain
In article <33705156...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, Norris
<nm...@ix.netcom.com> writes
>Hi:
>
>I am a Beaty descendant, which with earlier ancestors, was spelled
>Beattie.
>
>I've learned that Beattie was a name of a sept in the MacBain clan. In
>surfing the web, I have found MacBain and MacBean sites that seem to
>use each others hero's and history, but yet, have separate web sites.
>
>How are the MacBain's and the MacBean's related, or distinguished from
>each other?
Distingushed? Some of my M(a)cBain/Bayne/Bean's are definitly _not_
distinguished. At one point in their lives they are listed as Mcbean,
at another Mcbain, at another MacBain/MacBayne etc....
It seems to have depended on the spelling used by the
Registrar/Minister/Enumerator. Boy, does it get confusing! :-)).
>Genealogy Home Page: http://members.aol.com/ntgen/index.html
I'll pop in soon.
--
Allan A MacBain
Researching MacBain (all spellings), Thom, Paterson, Redmond, Pharmister... and
many more in the Inverness-shire area.
Norris
Hi Allan:
I believe there is more going on here than a spelling variation.
Various of the "clan" sites on the web clearly show MacBain and
MacBean as separate clans, sometimes showing MacBean's as a sept of
MacBain. However, they describe people named MacBean in the MacBain
page and vice versa, common motto's, etc., but other characteristics
differently.
So, thanks for your answer, but I don't think it's quite that
simple... altho.. it could be..
Norris
EMail: Norris Taylor <nm...@ix.netcom.com>
Main Ancestral Lines:
Beaty, Earhart, Feather, Johnston, Millirons,Taylor, Vatter
"Most Wanted" Lines to connect with:
Powers, McCart, McBride, Snodgrass, McCampbell, Brinning
Connoly, Nellist, Fletcher, Donalson
Scott Bains-Jordan
Oh Please! I gotta know more!
I'm reading that MacBain is a sept of MacBean, but Bain is a sept of
Mackay. On my map, MacBean and Bain were geographically close to one
another. I've been simplifying it to mean that MacBain & MacBean came
from Bain. Yes/No? What information do you all have on these people?
Scott Bains-Jordan
ss...@softcom.net
Norris
In the recent past, Scott Bains-Jordan wrote:
>>>How are the MacBain's and the MacBean's related, or distinguished from
>>>each other?
>Oh Please! I gotta know more!
>
>I'm reading that MacBain is a sept of MacBean, but Bain is a sept of
>Mackay. On my map, MacBean and Bain were geographically close to one
>another. I've been simplifying it to mean that MacBain & MacBean came
>from Bain. Yes/No? What information do you all have on these people?
>
>Scott Bains-Jordan
>
Hi Scott:
I have found references that Clan Beattie is a sept of Clan MacBain,
Clan MacBean, Clan MacKay, and Clan MacBeth. I have also seen
references that Clan MacBean is a sept of Clan MacBain and that Clan
MacBain is a sept of Clan MacKay. And that Clan MacKay, in different
parts of Scotland is a sept of Clans MacDonald and Davidson. And
also that Clan MacBeath is a sept of Clan MacBeth.
Whew!! I'm confused. I still don't think the distinction between
MacBain and MacBean is as simple as a spelling variation, although
that may be contributing to the confusion.
Norris
EMail: Norris Taylor <nm...@ix.netcom.com>
Main Ancestral Lines:
Beaty, Earhart, Feather, Johnston, Millirons,Taylor, Vatter
"Most Wanted" Lines to connect with:
Powers, McCart, McBride, Snodgrass, McCampbell, Brinning
Connoly, Nellist, Fletcher, Donalson
gawiseman
Scott,
The two are the same. The Clan MacBean in North America, Inc., currently
has over 70 accepted name spellings (Alvin, Bain(e)(es), Bane, Bayn(e),
Beian, Bean(e), Bee(an)(n)(ne), Beth, Binnie, Bheath, Elvain(e), Elvane,
Elvayne, Elveen, Elwane, Elwayne, Elwee (and the same beginning with IL),
Vain(e), Vane, Vayn(e)(es), Vean(e), Vee(n)(ne), Vian, Wain(e), Wane.
Also the same with the 'Mac' or 'Mc' prefix.
A lot of the members of the clan association trace their genealogy, as I
do, back to John Bean, brought here as a war prisoner in 1652, indentured
to the Lissen family of Exeter, New Hampshire. The current clan chief,
James Hughston McBain of McBain, 22nd Hereditary Chief of the Name and
Arms lives in Tucson, Arizona.
As a genealogical entity, we have published what has been called the most
complete genealogy of any Scottish clan association. In the current
three volumes are covered over 9,000 families. In Volume 1, which begins
with John Bean, there are some 3,400 families directly connected.
Comment was made that the spelling had much to do with
Registrar/Minister/Enumerator. Absolutely. Add to that Immigration
Officers.
There were three main branches of the clan: MacBeans of Kinchyle,
MacBeans of Failie and MacBeans of Tomatin. The Kinchyle (Kin-hile)
group was the largest and occupied lands near Dores (Daars) which is
about 8 miles south of Inverness. Our Chief owns a bit of the old lands
and his father established the McBain Memorial Park there. It's a very
beautiful hillside spot and looks right down to Loch Ness.
MacBean was also a part of the Clan Chattan Confederacy along with
Macintosh, Davidson, MacGillivray, MacPherson, Shaw, etc.
You should probably try to get to one of the Highland Games or other
events where Clan MacBean expects to be represented. If you get in touch
with me, I'll see if I can't provide you with some additional
information.
George Wiseman, Secretary
Clan MacBean in NA, Inc.
gawiseman
Allan A MacBain
In article <5m46st$8...@lois.Read.TASC.COM>, gawiseman
<tasc.read.com@?.?> writes
>Scott,
>The two are the same. The Clan MacBean in North America, Inc., currently
>has over 70 accepted name spellings (Alvin, Bain(e)(es), Bane, Bayn(e),
>Beian, Bean(e), Bee(an)(n)(ne), Beth, Binnie, Bheath, Elvain(e), Elvane,
>Elvayne, Elveen, Elwane, Elwayne, Elwee (and the same beginning with IL),
>Vain(e), Vane, Vayn(e)(es), Vean(e), Vee(n)(ne), Vian, Wain(e), Wane.
>Also the same with the 'Mac' or 'Mc' prefix.
>Comment was made that the spelling had much to do with
>Registrar/Minister/Enumerator. Absolutely. Add to that Immigration
>Officers.
Also add Fathers (in this case my gg-grandfather, who named some of his
sons using different spellings for the surname).
>
>There were three main branches of the clan: MacBeans of Kinchyle,
>MacBeans of Failie and MacBeans of Tomatin.
I lived in Tomatin for 5 years - we were the only MacBains in the area
at the time - AFAIK - but my dad was born in Inverness & us kids were
born in Glasgow
> The Kinchyle (Kin-hile)
>group was the largest and occupied lands near Dores (Daars) which is
>about 8 miles south of Inverness. Our Chief owns a bit of the old lands
>and his father established the McBain Memorial Park there. It's a very
>beautiful hillside spot and looks right down to Loch Ness.
It _is_ a _very_ nice spot....great view. Just along the road from my
gran's old house in Essich Road (Gran is 100yrs old this year & still
going strong).
>
>MacBean was also a part of the Clan Chattan Confederacy along with
>Macintosh, Davidson, MacGillivray, MacPherson, Shaw, etc.
>
>You should probably try to get to one of the Highland Games or other
>events where Clan MacBean expects to be represented. If you get in touch
>with me, I'll see if I can't provide you with some additional
>information.
Our family were the only MacBains at the 1974 (I think) Highland
gathering on the MacIntosh of MacIntosh's lands at Moy - a mile or two
from Tomatin (Hill of the Juniper).
>George Wiseman, Secretary
>Clan MacBean in NA, Inc.
>
If I'm wrong correct me - don't flame me. If I'm right....I won't
gloat.
--
Allan A MacBain
Researching MacBain (all spellings), Thom, Paterson, Redmond, Pharmister... and
many more in the Inverness-shire area.
You mean that piece of Granite is my _Uncle_????
Oh well, Dad always said our family was sedimentary.
Roger Basom
Well I might as well put my two cents in too.
reading from a pamphlet from the clan. it reads.
(a brief history of clan McBain)
There is no "correct" or even uniform way of either spelling or
pronouncing our name.
"If yu look at MacBheathain,and understand certain basic speech patterns,
one can better grasp how the various spellings developed,and,in Gaelic,
can be considered identical. The "th" would be silent.."Bean" would be
pronounced "Bain".This shows how MacBheathain became MacBean,pronounced
MacBain and in later years spelled that way."Bh" in old Gaelic has the sound
of our "V" and as old Clan Chattan records show we were long known as
"Clan Vean". A branch that settled in Pershire retained the form
MacVean. As further variation from the old Gaelic, some who settle in the
Caroliinas and Georgia,spell the name Macllvain,"Macllvean" and "Macllveen".
Bean is a patronymic, meaning taken from the personal name of an ancestor.
Probably our direct name ancestor was Bean MacMilmhor,who is mentioned in old
Kinrara Manuscript on page 168.His son, Milmor Macbean(1368) mentioned in the same Manuscript on page 174,probably was the first person ever to use Macbean as a surname.This is the first example of the useage.
Hope this one helps too.
Roger
--
****TOUCH NOT A CAT BUT A TARGE****CLAN MCBAIN****
Sheila McGregor
Not to doubt that Roger Basom's pamphlet is based on some
facts, but it would be interesting to know the basis for
saying that a branch of Clan Chattan calling themselves McVean
settled in Perthshire. I have so far not found any
signs of Clan Chattan before the middle of the 18th century
when one family called MacPherson appeared on Lochtayside.
Other supposed sightings are cases of mistaken identity,
in which the same surname occurs independently in Perthshire,
eg the Tossachs of Glentilt, who were not part of Clan Chattan
by a long chalk.
> As further variation from the old Gaelic, some who settle in the
> Caroliinas and Georgia,spell the name Macllvain,"Macllvean" and "Macllveen".
This is another name IMO. MacBheathain is a patronym, if
Beathain is a personal name. MacIlvain and the other forms
given are Gille names, specifically, Mac-Gille-Bhan, which
means 'Son of the Servant of the White Lad'. There are a
lot of Gille names in this form, and the final word is
always an adjective. In Perthshire other adjectives such
as Geal (shining), Gorm (noble), Dubh (black), Malloch (hairy),
Cattenach (curly-coated), Buidhe (yellow) and Ruadh (red) occur
in this kind of name (spelling approximate as always!).
Of course the Gaels were fond of puns, and often no absolute
line can be drawn, since a lot of their names have at least
two quite separate meanings, both equally valid from different
points of view.
> Bean is a patronymic, meaning taken from the personal name of an ancestor.
> Probably our direct name ancestor was Bean MacMilmhor,who is mentioned in old
> Kinrara Manuscript on page 168.His son, Milmor Macbean(1368) mentioned in the
> same Manuscript on page 174,probably was the first person ever to use Macbean
> as a surname.This is the first example of the useage.
This is about the same time as Gregor first appears as a personal
name and the first MacGregor appears in Clan Gregor records. I have
come to believe that this is a personification of the older
non-personal Clan identify, Gregarach meaning 'herdsmen', and that
the rash of ancestors associated with early written records are
personifications of much older Gaelic names which were not names
of people at all. There is no Gregor in the earliest Clan Gregor
pedigrees, and by 1515 there is one person of the name. The
oldest ancestor is Duncan. Duncan is a Perthshire word meaning
'cattle pen'. As archaeology continues to suggest, these clans
are probably all very old indeed, Iron Age, Bronze Age, who knows
how much older? So although the first Bean or Beathan appears
on the record in 1368 or so, his name is probably a much older
family name taken as a personal name, under the influence of some
literate Christian monk seeking for a suitable baptismal name.
This seems to be the origin of Gregor, certainly - an easier name
to trace.
--
Sheila McGregor