X9 vs. Burgman400
Spencer R. Lower
Lanceandrew
is that fair?
and "obsolete"? sure, the burg owners can be a chest thumping pain in the
ass....reminding us of this fact....but obsolete? give me a break...
Hasn't this battle already been sorted out in Europe and Asia?...I believe
these are basically circa 2001 scooters....no? It's only we Americans that
have no experience from which to draw comparison on.
Historically the X9 has had....."issues". Let's hope their resolved with the
US version.
...Something tells me Yamaha has no trouble sleeping at night now that the X9
has hit the States....
Bryce Ludwig
news:20040818231619...@mb-m18.aol.com:
If I were in the market for a big maxiscooter, the Japanese machines
would have great appeal to me. The fact that within 1.5 hours drive of
me I could find 3-5 Honda, Yamaha, or Suzuki dealers is very nice. I
would have some competition on purchase price, and I would have options
on servicing as well. However, if I went with any of the Euro brands I
have perhaps one option per brand. Piaggio/Vespa, I could drive about
45 minutes to Kansas City or 2 hours to Wichita, and I know I'd get
lackluster service at one, and imagine it wouldn't be a whole lot better
at the other. If I wanted Aprilia, I could go about an hour and get
good service and what seem to be reasonable prices, but then again it's
an hour away and I would have a long wait on any parts (as it seems I
might with Piaggio). If I wanted to buy Derbi I could buy one in my own
town, but only if I wanted a 50cc, or a bigger one only if I wanted to
lay down the money for one up front without having seen, touched or even
ridden one. I could buy a Kymco there, but with the same problem. If I
want a Stella, Bajaj, Malaguti or a bigger Kymco I could go about 30
minutes away and deal with one of the best shops I've been to. So the 3
Japanese marques are looking quite good to me. Deals can be had, and I
have plenty of options.
--
Ciao,
Bryce Ludwig
2003 Peugeot Looxor 150
SoCalMike
> Is the Burgman400 now obsolete? If not, why choose it over the X9?
>
>
add in all taxes, registration, setup, doc fees, freight? youre at
$6800, easy.
its a great scoot, but the diff between 95 and 98mph isnt that much for
the price.
and i couldnt even tell you who the piaggio dealer(s) in los angeles
are. hopefully, NOT the vespa boutiques. id never set foot in one.
Bryce Ludwig
$eM2.167018@attbi_s51:
I think they're all boutiques my friend. That seems to be the structure of
them. They want a more retail experience rather than a vehicle buying
setup. The whole idea is that you end up paying whatever price they set,
and you won't bother haggling, just like you don't when you go to Target or
whatever. I think that I'm going to go and start haggling in a department
store or electronics store or something just for the fun of it. If I get a
better price, then why not?
scootgirl.com
news:10i8bqg...@corp.supernews.com...
[snip]
>
> I think they're all boutiques my friend. That seems to be the structure
of
> them. They want a more retail experience rather than a vehicle buying
> setup. The whole idea is that you end up paying whatever price they set,
> and you won't bother haggling, just like you don't when you go to Target
or
> whatever. I think that I'm going to go and start haggling in a department
> store or electronics store or something just for the fun of it. If I get
a
> better price, then why not?
>
I wouldn't mind the one price fits all concept so long as it's not a
sky-high price with tons of add-on fees. That's why I didn't even look at
the GT200. I mean, what would be the point? I wasn't going to pay high
retail *plus* sodomy fees for a scooter.
PWB
"scootgirl.com" <duzf...@dslextreme.com> wrote in message
news:10i8cn9...@corp.supernews.com...
"Sodomy fees"? LOL. Thanks a bundle, I just sprayed Diet Cherry Coke out
my nostrils and all over my Microsoft Natural Pro keyboard.
Well, I needed an excuse to buy a new keyboard anyway...
PWB
SoCalMike
> "Sodomy fees"? LOL. Thanks a bundle, I just sprayed Diet Cherry Coke out
> my nostrils and all over my Microsoft Natural Pro keyboard.
>
> Well, I needed an excuse to buy a new keyboard anyway...
if its wired, take it to the sink, and spray with hot water. then let it
dry, upside down for a couple days.
but yeah- sodomy fees suck. the only required stuff is tax and
registration. shipping should be included in the MSRP. dealers often get
an allowance for setup, and most scoots come pretty fully assembled anyway.
PWB
news:uKXUc.278664$a24.117452@attbi_s03...
> PWB wrote:
>
>> "Sodomy fees"? LOL. Thanks a bundle, I just sprayed Diet Cherry Coke
>> out my nostrils and all over my Microsoft Natural Pro keyboard.
>>
>> Well, I needed an excuse to buy a new keyboard anyway...
>
> if its wired, take it to the sink, and spray with hot water. then let it
> dry, upside down for a couple days.
I'll do that, as soon as I go pick up a brand new Microsoft Cordless Desktop
Pro (Natural Wireless Keyboard + Intellimouse Explorer Wireless Optical
mouse -- $99 at CompUSELESS and MEI Micro Center.). Then I won't NEED the
Natural Pro that's been sullied, but at least I'll be able to clean it, and
let it sit out to dry...
Like I said, I *was* looking for an excuse to get a new keyboard/etc. <G>
> but yeah- sodomy fees suck. the only required stuff is tax and
> registration. shipping should be included in the MSRP. dealers often get
> an allowance for setup, and most scoots come pretty fully assembled
> anyway.
Actually, I see nothing wrong with "shipping fees" if the dealer has to
deliver the bike to you -- as mine did -- from another state or a distant
part of the state in which you live. My Burg650 was delivered from
Bellaire, OH to Columbus, OH -- a distance of 130 miles. Dealer charged $50
above and beyond the OTD price. Bike arrived undamaged.
PWB
Jan Vagle
(snip)
> I wouldn't mind the one price fits all concept so long as it's not a
> sky-high price with tons of add-on fees. That's why I didn't even look at
> the GT200. I mean, what would be the point? I wasn't going to pay high
> retail *plus* sodomy fees for a scooter.
You don't know what *sodomy' fees are !!! :)
Imagine that you have to pay an $4300 extra in taxes for a Burgie 400 or
$5000 extra in taxes for a Tmax500 ? THATS *sodomy* reality in Norway..
Be my guest.. ;)
--
Jan Vagle
.............................oOo
scootgirl.com
news:2oj9aiF...@uni-berlin.de...
...dude, that hurts even me all the way in the USA just hearing about it!
Are those taxes progressive - like do 50cc scooters have to pay 90% sales
tax too?
Jan Vagle
>>>the GT200. I mean, what would be the point? I wasn't going to pay high
>>>retail *plus* sodomy fees for a scooter.
>>
>>You don't know what *sodomy' fees are !!! :)
>>Imagine that you have to pay an $4300 extra in taxes for a Burgie 400 or
>>$5000 extra in taxes for a Tmax500 ? THATS *sodomy* reality in Norway..
>>
>>Be my guest.. ;)
>
> ...dude, that hurts even me all the way in the USA just hearing about it!
> Are those taxes progressive - like do 50cc scooters have to pay 90% sales
> tax too?
They are progressive based on 'cc' and 'bhp'.
On a typical 600cc sports bike more than 50% of its retail is easily taxes.
On a 125 it's "only" approx 25% in taxes...
50cc get's only sales tax.
Sales tax on retail is 24%..
So: something is better over the pond... :)
--
Jan Vagle
.............................oOo
vkeyboard
> Is the Burgman400 now obsolete? If not, why choose it over the X9?
Thats like asking if 50cc are now obsolete because we have 400cc scooters.
If you haven't looked around lately there is plenty of room still for all
of them.
From just the specs the only thing I dont care for is the rear suspension.
They probably should have copied Suzuki on that on.
Never been on the x9 but I like the dual disc up front. Also like the
radio which Suzuki should have at least had as an option. The power stand
is also a neat feature. I'm sure all of that translates in addition to
the Piaggio name a higher sticker price.
When I got my burg I was trading in a Honda Helix and was actually looking
at the Reflex or Silverwing. The Burg was the same price as the Reflex.
I'd say the x9 is more of a threat (if one at all) to the 650 and + 400
then it is to the 400 because of that. I'm pretty sure we can expect a US
sticker price a lot closer to the SilverWing and Burg 650 then we can any
of the 400's
Dave Wood
400
(around $5500) and the $7600-7700 of the Silverwing/burg650. Now, if it had
vespa stuck on the side, it would be $2000 more :-)
"vkeyboard" <ihat...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:_92Vc.23494$Nl1....@fe1.columbus.rr.com...
PWB
news:UV4Vc.27791$9Y6...@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Difference is, with a lot of Suzuki and Honda dealerships, you can haggle
the price down enough to get the Burgman or 'Wing out the door at or below
the MSRP. That will NEVER happen at a Vespa boutique... and I'm willing to
bet that they tack on a shitload of (thanks, Karen!) sodomy fees, so that
you'll be lucky if you can get out of the boutique paying less than $7000
for the X9.
Did I mention that I got my zero-mile brand-spanking-new AN650 (Burgman) for
$6861 OTD, including delivery from the dealership to my home 130 miles away?
See if you can get that kind of service from a Vespa boutique. For that
matter, see if you can keep the price of that X9 under $6861 OTD. I don't
see it happening...
PWB
Lanceandrew
the price
That's right. First of all folks, to my knowledge the X9 is not being sold at
boutiques, but through Piaggio dealers. They don't mix the Vespa with the rest
of the Piaggio products....the Vespas are "stand alone" products to
themeselves.
But to the point...and an Example...right now on Ebay is a brand new SilverWing
for $6K from an authorized dealer with all the dealer/honda warranty, etc.
That's the "Buy It Now" price. The MSRP on that scooter is $7.5K, the ABS
model is $8K.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2487510
791&category=42593
This illustrates well the ability to buy below MSRP when it comes to Japanese
maxi-scooters in the USA. Methinks you can get a non-ABS Silverwing for $6K
from just about any dealer if you show up with the money...no problem.
Thus if you're going to compare around the $6K X9, compare it to the $6K 600cc
SilverWing too.
Bryce Ludwig
news:20040819132739...@mb-m18.aol.com:
> Difference is, with a lot of Suzuki and Honda dealerships, you can
> haggle the price
> __
>
> That's right. First of all folks, to my knowledge the X9 is not being
> sold at boutiques, but through Piaggio dealers. They don't mix the
> Vespa with the rest of the Piaggio products....the Vespas are "stand
> alone" products to themeselves.
Uh, there are stand alone Piaggio places here in the US? The Vespa place
in Wichita, KC and St Louis are all Vespa and Piaggio boutiques. So I
don't know where else you would buy one.
David
> then it is to the 400 because of that. I'm pretty sure we can expect a US
> sticker price a lot closer to the SilverWing and Burg 650 then we can any
> of the 400's
Maybe on the basis of price that's true, but truthfully, there's
nothing out there that is a threat to the 650 at the moment, except
and unless the T-Max came to the USA.
The achitecture and ride of the 650 is just completely different than
any "motor on the swing arm" scooter we have available. One kind of
has to already have one to truly appreciate just how different it is
from all the other scooters.
Having said that, the X9 is a great scooter, and it would be my pick
over the Atlantic or Scarb 500's in a heartbeat.
Now that Piaggio owns Aprilia, I don't see the point of bringing the
Beverly 500 here though, except, I guess as the poor man's 500,
depending on how much it sells for here, but I know that's its role in
Europe.
I'm glad we FINALLY got the X9. Had it been here 2 years ago, I might
be riding one now.
David
PWB
I checked the Piaggio USA website. Their "dealer directory" shows almost
exclusively the Vespa Boutiques. There are a few general-purpose motorcycle
dealerships carrying Piaggio products, but the vast majority of Piaggio
dealers throughout the US will be the Vespa Boutiques... and as I said, God
help you if you want to haggle on price... I doubt they'll budge a
millimeter.
PWB
SoCalMike
that goes to pay for all the free healthcare and 6 months of vacation
each year :)
SoCalMike
> Having said that, the X9 is a great scooter, and it would be my pick
> over the Atlantic or Scarb 500's in a heartbeat.
how about compared to the t-max?
Spencer R. Lower
Because I've grown tired of reading how the Burgman is the answer to all
posts asking for help in differentiating between 50-150cc scooters. The
line usually goes, everybody always wants more power, choose the Burgman
today!
I'm also interested in how they compare, but I haven't learned a lot yet.
You have to admit that stirring things up was worth the following quote.
I'm glad I wasn't drinking coke when I read it:
" I wasn't going to pay high retail *plus* sodomy fees for a scooter."
thx Karen
Lanceandrew
in Wichita, KC and St Louis are all Vespa and Piaggio boutiques.
I stand corrected. Some Vespa Boutiques will I suppose sell X9s....but I doubt
many will. Some of the Boutiques are in shopping malls for example and the
entire focus/theme is on things/products "vespa". An X9 on the show room floor
of these boutiques a square peg trying to fit in a round hole. I think the
biggest profit margins for the boutique owner will be in traditional Vespa
scooters and all the other Vespa crap they sell.
If you really want to know the scoop on all this stuff...read this stuff
below...
___
<author credited at the end>
In the world of scooter dealerships, which retail model best suits a particular
brand? The options are pretty straightforward.
A blossoming phenomenon of the U.S. scooter scene is the Vespa boutique--an
important part of Vespa's strategy as part of its U.S. market relaunch in
November 2000. A Vespa boutique is mainly a dealership oriented to the heritage
and history of the Vespa name and lifestyle. It therefore sells exclusively
Vespa and Piaggio scooters and accessories. There already are 67 boutiques in
34 states.
The other option is the multiline store. These dealerships offer side-by-side
comparisons of products from different manufacturers, and they help consumers
decide which one is best suited for their particular application.
Vespa Boutique
If you want to open a Vespa boutique, you'll need to prove your commitment. Any
potential dealer must submit a sound business strategy, provide a large initial
investment in the product line and have a staff dedicated to the franchise. In
return, Vespa will provide the dealer with a large territory and a complete
line of trendy accessories, clothing, helmets, luggage and watches to sell.
Other perks of being a boutique dealer include factory training for mechanics
and an opportunity to sell Piaggio scooters alongside the traditional Vespas.
The Piaggio line includes the lightweight LT 50 and 150, the powerful Beverly
200, and the sporty Gilera line.
The initial scooter order required for a new boutique is 40 units, which costs
roughly $100,000. Another $25,000, on average, is spent on upgrading the
interior of the boutique and adding fixtures, lighting, etc. Piaggio must
approve all design decisions beforehand to make sure they are consistent with
the style and taste of the boutique concept. About another $25,000 will cover
the cost of spare parts, tools and accessories. So the maximum investment that
Piaggio is looking for is $150,000. There is no extra franchise fee.
Piaggio requires boutiques to be freestanding entities located in areas with
good profit potential. Sometimes boutiques can be part of a larger auto
dealership, but the boutique must maintain a distinct identity of its own. If a
boutique will share any type of floor space or address with another product,
Piaggio will review it on a case-by-case basis before giving any approval.
Current boutique demographics are urban customers ages 30 to 45. Their average
yearly income is $70,000, and about 30 percent of them are female. If these
demographics coincide with your client base and there aren't any Vespa
boutiques in your area, then owning a boutique may be right for you.
Multiline Dealership
Advantages of multiline dealerships are obvious: By providing the customer a
choice and stocking scooters from around the world, you can reach a broader
customer base. Scootershop in Orange, California, carries Bajaj, Derbi,
Italjet, Kymco and TN'G and has been in business since 1995.
Scootershop is also an Authorized Vespa Vintage Restoration shop. Because of
its location in California, the majority of the scooters sold are 150cc and up,
with Kymco leading the pack. Scootershop performs three to four vintage
restorations a year, but tries not to focus on the pre-owned and vintage
markets.
Scootershop owner Mic Koslov claims Kymco products sell just as well as Honda,
and if it were not for carrying new scooters, he would not be in business.
"Original scooter shops that picked up new bikes prospered, while those who did
not have failed," he says.
Despite strong Kymco sales, the Bajaj and Derbi lines have done moderately
well, says Koslov, who's also excited about his new entry-level line, TN'G.
Manufacturers prefer that at least one of each of its models is displayed on
the showroom floor. Depending on the extent of the product line, this
requirement will cost a dealer between $5,000 and $11,000. Manufacturers
offering only one model, like LML, require a minimum initial purchase of four
scooters.
Acknowledging the limitations of smaller multiline dealerships, some of the
larger scooter makers recently began offering two-product packages. Aprilia now
offers, for example, agreements for 50cc-to-150cc and 50cc-to-500cc scooters,
with different minimum orders for both. While Aprilia previously believed that
requiring an entire product line on the showroom floor was the best way to
market its product, the company retreated, realizing that pushing 500cc
scooters in a 50cc demographic may not be such a smart idea.
In addition to scooter inventory, all manufacturers require multiline dealers
to purchase spare parts, tools and marketing materials. This will add another
$1,500 to $3,500 to the startup cost, depending on the manufacturer. Total
costs to add a complete scooter line to a dealership will run between $6,500
and $14,500, with no additional franchise fees.
Author's Note:
Information contained in this article was obtained in part from exclusive
interviews with
* Costantino Sambuy, president and CEO of Piaggio USA
* Michael Smith, area manager for four Vespa boutiques in Southern California
* Mic Koslov, owner/ manager of Scootershop in Orange, California
* Tom McDonald, vice president/ GM of Aprilia World Services USA, whose
dealership approach straddles the line between boutique and multiline in select
markets
The Aprilia Experiment
To try and capture greater market share, Aprilia USA has aggressively expanded
its dealer network. First, the company developed two levels of product
agreements (see main story). Then, in October 2003, it opened a showroom on the
ground floor of Marshall Field's flagship State Street store in downtown
Chicago.
Nestled between a Yahoo! store, Starbucks and a GM concept car display is a 560
sq./ft. Aprilia scooter showroom displaying bikes and selling Aprilia-branded
clothing and accessories. Apparel from Aprilia's own line in Italy is sold at
Field's as well as luggage, hats, watches, leathers, locks and racks. Scooter
purchase referrals are given to three local Aprilia dealerships. The showroom
has a boutique feel, but it is not quite the same as a Vespa boutique.
Aprilia and Moto Guzzi in January opened a moto-lifestyle store in the trendy
SoHo district of Manhattan. It's a gallery of stylish motorcycles, scooters and
urban gear. This store is akin to the Vespa boutique in that it sells lifestyle
items, but it also remains multiline and multiplatform. If this concept proves
successful, we could see many more of these lifestyle dealerships in trendy
shopping districts.
--S. Moftakhar
COPYRIGHT 2004 Advanstar Communications, Inc.
COPYRIGHT 2004 Gale Group
SoCalMike
> "why are you trying to stir things up like this?
>
> Because I've grown tired of reading how the Burgman is the answer to all
> posts asking for help in differentiating between 50-150cc scooters. The
> line usually goes, everybody always wants more power, choose the Burgman
> today!
depends on what youre moving up from. if youre riding a helix, elite
250, or reflex and are generally happy but just want enough power to
ride in a lane *other* than the slow lane, yet dont want something that
costs $3000 more than what you have or weighs 200 lbs more, then the
burg 400 is, for NOW, until the majesty is available in the USA, the
only logical choice.
you want to pay a little more, get a little more power, and a european
pedigree? theres the X9, aprilia atlantic, scarabeo500, etc. id love to
see a shootout between all these bikes, and the japanese 400s.
Jan Vagle
Hahaha ! :)
First of all: We DON'T have free healthcare, and that 'care' there is is
third grade...
Second: We have 6 weeks off a year, thats all...
--
Jan Vagle
.............................oOo
Jan Vagle
Hahaha.. a Tmax will gobble it up for breakfast, and even better: after
50.000 mls a Tmax is still fresh but in a X9 there will be nothing left..
If I try to ride as spirited as I'm used to with my Tmax on a X9 I will
scream in fear as the thing undulates, wobbles and jumps ahead and linked
brakes are for pussys.. :P
Everything doesn't work as new when not new, therefor don't get blind when
reading comparison in magazines.
What you have left after 2 or 4 years of regulary use is also important.
Imagine that ! :)
--
Jan Vagle
.............................oOo
PWB
> SoCalMike wrote:
>
>> David wrote:
>>
>>> Having said that, the X9 is a great scooter, and it would be my pick
>>> over the Atlantic or Scarb 500's in a heartbeat.
>>
>>
>> how about compared to the t-max?
>
> Hahaha.. a Tmax will gobble it up for breakfast, and even better: after
> 50.000 mls a Tmax is still fresh but in a X9 there will be nothing left..
>
> If I try to ride as spirited as I'm used to with my Tmax on a X9 I will
> scream in fear as the thing undulates, wobbles and jumps ahead and linked
> brakes are for pussys.. :P
I've never been able to understand the attraction of linked brakes, myself.
I've found the independent front and rear brakes of the Burgman 650 to be a
LOT more controllable than the Burgman 400's linked brakes (and I've tried
both). I also don't find the ABS option (available on the Honda FSC600 and
probably available on next year's Burgman 650) terribly appealing. I mean,
a rider should be able to modulate his brakes himself to prevent lockups,
rather than relying on an electromechanical solution to save his ass...
Besides, on a bike with ABS, you can NEVER achieve maximum braking force
because the ABS prevents it...
PWB
Jan Vagle
> I've found the independent front and rear brakes of the Burgman 650 to be a
> LOT more controllable than the Burgman 400's linked brakes (and I've tried
> both). I also don't find the ABS option (available on the Honda FSC600 and
> probably available on next year's Burgman 650) terribly appealing. I mean,
> a rider should be able to modulate his brakes himself to prevent lockups,
> rather than relying on an electromechanical solution to save his ass...
>
> Besides, on a bike with ABS, you can NEVER achieve maximum braking force
> because the ABS prevents it...
Well, I think it has two sides:
Yes, if you are a seasoned rider, doing trackdays, or at least serious
backstreet carving, ABS is not an option.
No, if you are a casual commuter just ride from A to B and some occasional
touring ABS can save your ass.
I've only tried BMW's ABS system for real and despite it works somewhat
coarse it works.
Fact, at least for me (A pretty seasoned rider with +80.000 mls and +20
bikes rode in 18 years) in real life:
I can of course on a track or deserted road repeadedly brake to the absolute
max, with the tires nearly skidding, achieving shortest braking distance
possible, even from very high speeds.
But in real life in traffic, especially on the wet if something very
unexpected happens I think there's a 50% chance that I just jump at the
brakes at first, causing some skidding before I resemble myself and starts
to brake optimum..
So: Whils perhaps adding 5% to the braking distance whilst ready and able to
brake optimum, it might as well save your ass on a wet surface, when
something at sudden scared the shit uotta you and you just jumped the brakes..
Don't you all admit that ?
--
Jan Vagle
.............................oOo
Stuart W.
rider ? You wouldn't be caught dead on a Italian bike, right ?
lance...@aol.com (Lanceandrew) wrote in message news:<20040819205707...@mb-m02.aol.com>...
> The Vespa place
> in Wichita, KC and St Louis are all Vespa and Piaggio boutiques.
> __
> I stand corrected. Some Vespa Boutiques will I suppose sell X9s....but I doubt
> many will. Some of the Boutiques are in shopping malls for example and the
> entire focus/theme is on things/products "vespa". An X9 on the show room floor
> of these boutiques a square peg trying to fit in a round hole. I think the
> biggest profit margins for the boutique owner will be in traditional Vespa
> scooters and all the other Vespa crap they sell.
>
>
> Scootershop is also an Authorized Vespa Vintage Restoration shop. Because of
> its location in California, the majority of the scooters sold are 150cc and up,
> with Kymco leading the pack. Scootershop performs three to four vintage
> restorations a year, but tries not to focus on the pre-owned and vintage
> markets.
>
> Scootershop owner Mic Koslov claims Kymco products sell just as well as Honda,
> and if it were not for carrying new scooters, he would not be in business.
>
> "Original scooter shops that picked up new bikes prospered, while those who did
> not have failed," he says.
>
> Despite strong Kymco sales, the Bajaj and Derbi lines have done moderately
> well, says Koslov, who's also excited about his new entry-level line, TN'G.
>
>
> Acknowledging the limitations of smaller multiline dealerships, some of the
> larger scooter makers recently began offering two-product packages. Aprilia now
> offers, for example, agreements for 50cc-to-150cc and 50cc-to-500cc scooters,
> with different minimum orders for both. While Aprilia previously believed that
> requiring an entire product line on the showroom floor was the best way to
> market its product, the company retreated, realizing that pushing 500cc
> scooters in a 50cc demographic may not be such a smart idea.
>
> In addition to scooter inventory, all manufacturers require multiline dealers
> to purchase spare parts, tools and marketing materials. This will add another
> $1,500 to $3,500 to the startup cost, depending on the manufacturer. Total
> costs to add a complete scooter line to a dealership will run between $6,500
> and $14,500, with no additional franchise fees.
>
>
Bryce Ludwig
berlin.de:
> Hahaha ! :)
> First of all: We DON'T have free healthcare, and that 'care' there is is
> third grade...
> Second: We have 6 weeks off a year, thats all...
What do you get in return for your taxes then?
Lanceandrew
bike, right ?
_
you'd laugh you ass off at me. 4 months ago i bought a used '01 50cc yamaha
zuma on ebay for $430. i did so for "rehersal purposes"...to play out in real
life my imaginary theoretical model of how useful and practical a scooter would
be for me...an cheap/low cost experiment you might say.
i live/work in manhattan...and if i pull out my SUV, i spend more time looking
for parking than it takes me to get anywhere i need to drive...heck, i pay
$300/mo. for parking at my co-op apartment. taxi'$ add up and contend with
traffic & the subway's great...but i'm a californian and as such like being the
master of my universe when it comes to transportation.
Scootering in Manhattan is definitely "a solution" for me. now i just gotta
get off of this Zuma and get something more suitable for me. I hate to come
off as a snob like that...but i'm forty-friggen-one years old and work my darn
hard. right now...i'm scootering on the same thing the Restaurant delivery guy
is cruising...and that ain't right! (LOL!) (I see delivery guys in Manhattan
on Vino125s too).
i just might be buying an italian scoot. i only scoot 20 miles/week
max..which is funny since i'm a distance runner and run 9 miles/day. i'm
probably going to buy the value i can get in a nice first class scooter by the
end of the year. methinks the market for buying value will peak in
Nov./Dec....however, i will be doing a sniper bid on a Atlantic 200 w/less than
1K miles on it on Ebay today...that particular '04 model might sell for 33% off
its new selling price or $3,000 who knows. Damn...there's also a rare
Atlantic 500 on their, '04 w/less than 1K miles. Just wish I knew what in the
heck Piaggio has in mind w/these scooters in terms of sales/support going
forward. Anyway, I think the GrandTurismo is beautiful and a wonderful
scooter...total enduring class. In Manhattan you will see the 55+ year old
executive who probably makes a Mil or two a year on a GrandTurismo on the
weekends...
The only thing I know for sure is I gotta get out of this damn zuma. don't get
me wrong, it's a fun solidly built scooter..I weigh 175 .lbs and this thing can
pop a wheelie stock, keeps up with taxi cab traffic no problem on Manhattan
streets.
It's just that when I'm at a stop light...I'll see an ET2 or ET4, a
Scarabeo/S-Wing/Burg, whatever...and think, "wow"...."..why don't I have
one?"...and then I'll see the Chinese Restaurant delivery guy on his
Zuma....and instantly my brain thinks, ",....what's wrong with this
picture"?.....I admit it...I don't like being at the bottom of the totem pole,
the first to be eaten in the food chain.
I'm just being patient...learning...from all you people who really know...and
consuming all the info I can to ultimately buy a quality scooter scooter with
decent available support (parts/service) at a great value...
Jan Vagle
> Jan Vagle <bones...@broadpark.no> wrote in news:2olq23Fc1roqU1@uni-
> berlin.de:
>
>
>
>>Hahaha ! :)
>>First of all: We DON'T have free healthcare, and that 'care' there is is
>>third grade...
>>Second: We have 6 weeks off a year, thats all...
>
>
> What do you get in return for your taxes then?
Nothing. It is all stashed in 'founds'.
The total taxation level of income->real stuff you really can hold in your
hand is about +80%
Example: A 20 packet of cigarettes cost about $10, and theres all sorts of
annual fees for just posession of stuff, properties and real estate.
Cost of gas is just about $5.15 a (US) Gallon for 95 octane leadfree.
The cheapest model (1.4 litre engine, no acc.) of a VW Golf cost about $+29.000
Your standard Golf 1.8T will cost us about $ 50.000
Rendering us to drive the oldest carpark in Europe, it self killing people.
One bottle of 'Absolut' vodka will cost about $55, into Norways regime it
will cost about $4
The average gross income is about $ 38.000 and before you recieve a cent
minimum 36% goes to income taxes.
Add 24% sales tax, you have before additional taxes less than 50% to spend.
50% to spend at the worlds highest pricelevel. One exeption on apartements
etc.. Tokyo is more expensive..
Why we still live here ? I don't know, still too many socialist still
standing with their hats in their hands saying "Yes lord, thanks lord"..
Many of us fleed the country in the years between 1910~1935 mostly living in
Iowa, S/N Dakota, Illinois and of course Minnesota.. :)
Yes, I'm pissed off.
Nuff OT right ?
--
Jan Vagle
.............................oOo
Jan Vagle
> What are you riding today Lance ? You wouldn't be caught dead on a Italian
> bike, right ?
> _
> you'd laugh you ass off at me. 4 months ago i bought a used '01 50cc yamaha
(megasnip)
o ultimately buy a quality scooter scooter with
> decent available support (parts/service) at a great value...
God man ! You need to sign up for a 400cc Maj. NOW !
Then you take your 40'ish ass the following weekend up to L.I. on tha thinhy
and snicker to the staring rows of cops wondering what the hell is passing by..
It will work, trust me. :)
(Besides: That Maj. will rocket you out of every intersection before the
SUV's ever know what happened)
--
Jan Vagle
.............................oOo
scootgirl.com
news:20040820140659...@mb-m02.aol.com...
[snip]
> don't get
> me wrong, it's [the Zuma] a fun solidly built scooter..I weigh 175 .lbs
and this thing can
> pop a wheelie stock, keeps up with taxi cab traffic no problem on
Manhattan
> streets.
>
I was surprised seeing and sitting on the Zuma IRL. In the web pics it looks
like a toy, but IRL it looks and feels so solid.
scootgirl.com
news:xrmVc.28626$cT6....@fe2.columbus.rr.com...
[snip]
> I've never been able to understand the attraction of linked brakes,
myself.
>
> I've found the independent front and rear brakes of the Burgman 650 to be
a
> LOT more controllable than the Burgman 400's linked brakes (and I've tried
> both). I also don't find the ABS option (available on the Honda FSC600
and
> probably available on next year's Burgman 650) terribly appealing. I
mean,
> a rider should be able to modulate his brakes himself to prevent lockups,
> rather than relying on an electromechanical solution to save his ass...
>
> Besides, on a bike with ABS, you can NEVER achieve maximum braking force
> because the ABS prevents it...
>
>
> PWB
I can see why someone would want ABS, but I'm with you on linked braking.
One of the things they taught in the MSF class was if the front wheel ever
locks up immediately let go of the brake and reapply gently but firmly. If
the rear brake locks up hold onto it until you stop. Linked braking would
just complicate this I'd think. It's hard enough to remember those rules
(and I sure hope I do if that happens to me) without linked braking thrown
into the mix.
I'm glad my P250 has independent brakes. It doesn't take a genius to apply
the front brake more as one stops.
Bryce Ludwig
Ok, but I'm still curious, what is the government doing with that money?
I'd go elsewhere if I were you. Someplace warmer sounds good.
Bryce Ludwig
news:10icm46...@corp.supernews.com:
> I can see why someone would want ABS, but I'm with you on linked
> braking. One of the things they taught in the MSF class was if the
> front wheel ever locks up immediately let go of the brake and reapply
> gently but firmly. If the rear brake locks up hold onto it until you
> stop. Linked braking would just complicate this I'd think. It's hard
> enough to remember those rules (and I sure hope I do if that happens
> to me) without linked braking thrown into the mix.
>
> I'm glad my P250 has independent brakes. It doesn't take a genius to
> apply the front brake more as one stops.
>
> Karen
> http://scootgirl.com/
What I've found with linked brakes (and I have them) is that you are
unlikely to lock up the front wheel. If you want to lock the front
wheel you are going to have to do the linked lever and the additional
front lever and really hard. Generally this is done by either having
dual discs in front (typical on linked brake big motorcycles), or you
have a multiple piston caliper, but unlike most mutli-piston calipers it
is fed by two different master cylinders. Linked braking works very,
very well, particularly for new riders. The brake proportioning front
to rear is has always been spot on for me on my scooter. So basically
you hit the "rear" brake first, and then add front. Typically by the
time you've added some front brake force you're slowed enough to not
lock it up. Having ridden many different scooters I think a linked
brake system is easier to stop quickly than a non-linked one.
However, if you're a motorcycle racer or something then you have a
totally different skill set than the average rider.
Jan Vagle
> Ok, but I'm still curious, what is the government doing with that money?
Funds, I said !
> I'd go elsewhere if I were you. Someplace warmer sounds good.
I will, when the opportunity arise..
--
Jan Vagle
.............................oOo
Jan Vagle
> I can see why someone would want ABS, but I'm with you on linked braking.
> One of the things they taught in the MSF class was if the front wheel ever
> locks up immediately let go of the brake and reapply gently but firmly. If
> the rear brake locks up hold onto it until you stop.
This MSF-teacher is an inexperienced, nonlogical moron !
A tyre grip its best on the verge of skidding, NOT skidding. And a rear tire
skidding might cause the rear end to slid out of direction causing you to
flip when you release the brakes.
****** MSF-idiot !
> Linked braking would
> just complicate this I'd think. It's hard enough to remember those rules
> (and I sure hope I do if that happens to me) without linked braking thrown
> into the mix.
Not as complicated as it seems to, once you get it 'right', with the right
amount of practice, it all comes natural.
> I'm glad my P250 has independent brakes. It doesn't take a genius to apply
> the front brake more as one stops.
Still the front is the most important, like the rear is the clue when
maneouvring at slow speeds.. :)
Terrible though Karen to hear about your rear bash.. luckily it mostly
turned allright ?
Just got a few days ago a friggin SUV (Land Rover) almost passing me at my
right with screeching tires, just because I halted at a pedestrian crossing
after doing a right at a roundabout.. almost shitted myself..
Dangerous world outta there, but SO much fun..
--
Jan Vagle (my centre stand feets is not square anymore.. why !!!)
...............................................................oOo
Jan Vagle
> Ok, but I'm still curious, what is the government doing with that money?
> I'd go elsewhere if I were you. Someplace warmer sounds good.
By the way: Norway has the highest rate of emigration amongst the
educated/graduate people in the whole Europe..
May speak for it self..
My goal is of course Italy.. :P
--
Jan Vagle
.............................oOo
Bryce Ludwig
berlin.de:
> Bryce Ludwig wrote:
>
>> Ok, but I'm still curious, what is the government doing with that money?
>
> Funds, I said !
Funds for what exactly?
Bryce Ludwig
> Bryce Ludwig wrote:
>
>> Ok, but I'm still curious, what is the government doing with that
>> money? I'd go elsewhere if I were you. Someplace warmer sounds
>> good.
>
> By the way: Norway has the highest rate of emigration amongst the
> educated/graduate people in the whole Europe..
>
> May speak for it self..
>
> My goal is of course Italy.. :P
>
Yeah, I would consider Italy, but Spain and Portugal have similar
attractions to me. Spain most of all because I know enough Spanish that I
would have a starting point to really immerse and learn it.
Jan Vagle
> Jan Vagle <bones...@broadpark.no> wrote in news:2onal7Fck73vU1@uni-
> berlin.de:
>
>
>>Bryce Ludwig wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Ok, but I'm still curious, what is the government doing with that money?
>>
>>Funds, I said !
>
>
> Funds for what exactly?
Funds for "When we run outta oil and got no more money pouring in to please
the facade"
--
Jan Vagle
.............................oOo
David
Well, I've been captivated by the X9 500 since I first saw one about 3
years ago, and then every one I'd see would catch my eye. I think
it's a really nice-looking scooter.
The T-Max doesn't do much for my visually, but I've never ridden one,
so that would truly be the clincher.
I didn't get the Burger King for its looks, although it's not all that
bad. I got it for what it can do and how well it does it. It'd
probably be a similar situation with the T-Max, but I might still have
gone for the Burger 650 due to some of its more practical attributes
(storage and comfort). I've seen many T-Maxes, but I've never
actually sat on one, let alone ridden one.
Naturally, these impressions all stem from trips to Europe, in case
anyone thinks I'm hallucinatory <grin>.
David
David
> brake optimum, it might as well save your ass on a wet surface, when
> something at sudden scared the shit uotta you and you just jumped the brakes..
>
> Don't you all admit that ?
I can't say.
I've never yet locked my Burgman 650's brakes, and at least for me, it
seems as though you'd have to be quite deliberate to do so, and I
agree that linked brakes might be a bit weird. Stopping with only the
left lever would be weird for me too. I certainly don't miss having
linked brakes.
I modulate my brakes myself and seem to do okay with it.
I think ABS are like seatbelts: usually they work well and might even
save your life, but occassionally, depending on the situation, they
might also kill you.
I might buy for ABS brakes, but I wouldn't trade up for their sake
alone.
David
SoCalMike
> Jan Vagle <bones...@broadpark.no> wrote in news:2olq23Fc1roqU1@uni-
> berlin.de:
>
>
>
>>Hahaha ! :)
>>First of all: We DON'T have free healthcare, and that 'care' there is is
>>third grade...
>>Second: We have 6 weeks off a year, thats all...
>
>
> What do you get in return for your taxes then?
6 weeks off.
in the USA, any time off you get is determined by your employer. where i
work, you get
1 year service- 1 week off
2-4 yr service- 2 weeks off
5-9 years service- 3 weeks off
10-14 years service- 4 weeks off
15- years service- 5 weeks off
and i THINK if youre there 20 years, you get 6 weeks. id have to check.
im going on 14 years this october.
>
SoCalMike
> What are you riding today Lance ? You wouldn't be caught dead on a Italian
> bike, right ?
> _
> you'd laugh you ass off at me. 4 months ago i bought a used '01 50cc yamaha
> zuma on ebay for $430. i did so for "rehersal purposes"...to play out in real
> life my imaginary theoretical model of how useful and practical a scooter would
> be for me...an cheap/low cost experiment you might say.
which is the smart thing to do! kudos for that, eh? beats shelling out
$$$ for a big scoot, only to find you dont like it. and i would bet your
zuma is more relaibele than the ebay chinese stuff.
>
> i live/work in manhattan...and if i pull out my SUV, i spend more time looking
> for parking than it takes me to get anywhere i need to drive...heck, i pay
> $300/mo. for parking at my co-op apartment. taxi'$ add up and contend with
> traffic & the subway's great...but i'm a californian and as such like being the
> master of my universe when it comes to transportation.
wouldnt you be better off just getting rid of it, and renting a car for
the times you need to go out of state? or no?
>
> Scootering in Manhattan is definitely "a solution" for me. now i just gotta
> get off of this Zuma and get something more suitable for me. I hate to come
> off as a snob like that...but i'm forty-friggen-one years old and work my darn
> hard. right now...i'm scootering on the same thing the Restaurant delivery guy
> is cruising...and that ain't right! (LOL!) (I see delivery guys in Manhattan
> on Vino125s too).
sounds like theyre smart, to me. the zuma has a rep for being reliable,
durable, and cheap to operate.
>
> i just might be buying an italian scoot. i only scoot 20 miles/week
> max..which is funny since i'm a distance runner and run 9 miles/day. i'm
> probably going to buy the value i can get in a nice first class scooter by the
> end of the year. methinks the market for buying value will peak in
> Nov./Dec....however, i will be doing a sniper bid on a Atlantic 200 w/less than
> 1K miles on it on Ebay today...that particular '04 model might sell for 33% off
> its new selling price or $3,000 who knows. Damn...there's also a rare
are they that rare?
> Atlantic 500 on their, '04 w/less than 1K miles. Just wish I knew what in the
> heck Piaggio has in mind w/these scooters in terms of sales/support going
> forward. Anyway, I think the GrandTurismo is beautiful and a wonderful
> scooter...total enduring class. In Manhattan you will see the 55+ year old
> executive who probably makes a Mil or two a year on a GrandTurismo on the
> weekends...
>
> The only thing I know for sure is I gotta get out of this damn zuma. don't get
> me wrong, it's a fun solidly built scooter..I weigh 175 .lbs and this thing can
> pop a wheelie stock, keeps up with taxi cab traffic no problem on Manhattan
> streets.
>
> It's just that when I'm at a stop light...I'll see an ET2 or ET4, a
> Scarabeo/S-Wing/Burg, whatever...and think, "wow"...."..why don't I have
> one?"...and then I'll see the Chinese Restaurant delivery guy on his
> Zuma....and instantly my brain thinks, ",....what's wrong with this
> picture"?.....I admit it...I don't like being at the bottom of the totem pole,
> the first to be eaten in the food chain.
as long as you have a safe place to park it. id be more worried about my
$5500 burg getting ripped off than a $400 zuma. but it *sounds* like if
you can afford to pay $300/mo for a parking space, you should be able to
get whatever you want and get full coverage for it.
>
> I'm just being patient...learning...from all you people who really know...and
> consuming all the info I can to ultimately buy a quality scooter scooter with
> decent available support (parts/service) at a great value...
do you plan on doing the maintenance on it yourself?
what dealers are close?
those would be my primary concerns. because if you have to take the
scaravespmanco5000 to paramus new jersey because thats the only
authorised service place that can get parts, thats a bummer.
but yeah- ya only live once so get what you want. the X9 looks sweet,
and you dont seem the penny-pinching type.
SoCalMike
>
> Ok, but I'm still curious, what is the government doing with that money?
> I'd go elsewhere if I were you. Someplace warmer sounds good.
healthcare
6 paid weeks vacation a year
roads/infrastructure
plus, id be willing to bet the govt officials from the street sweeper to
the president make damn good money and pensions.
i love america, but id bet we have more crime, homelessness,
joblessness, sick and hungry than norway.
SoCalMike
>
> Yeah, I would consider Italy, but Spain and Portugal have similar
> attractions to me. Spain most of all because I know enough Spanish that I
> would have a starting point to really immerse and learn it.
si. yo tambien.
all of my spanish is of the mexican dialect, tho. kinda like british
english and USA english is different.
SoCalMike
>
> I can see why someone would want ABS, but I'm with you on linked braking.
> One of the things they taught in the MSF class was if the front wheel ever
> locks up immediately let go of the brake and reapply gently but firmly. If
> the rear brake locks up hold onto it until you stop. Linked braking would
> just complicate this I'd think.
how? use the left lever primarily, followed by the front and bobs your
uncle.
the left puts 30/70 front/rear. squeeze it *real* hard, the rear *will*
lock.
meanwhile, the front brake is helping...
so modulate the right lever, and give the front more pressure. keep the
"death grip" on the left lever if you want, since MSF says so...
>It's hard enough to remember those rules
> (and I sure hope I do if that happens to me) without linked braking thrown
> into the mix.
theres nothing to think about. every time you give the rear some
pressure, youre also giving some to the front, which is what you want.
>
> I'm glad my P250 has independent brakes. It doesn't take a genius to apply
> the front brake more as one stops.
and you do the same exact thing on the burg400. except when youre using
the rear, youre also giving 30% to the front, whether you like it or
not. makes ya stop quicker :)
>
> Karen
> http://scootgirl.com/
>
>
Jan Vagle
> Bryce Ludwig wrote:
>
>>
>> Ok, but I'm still curious, what is the government doing with that
>> money? I'd go elsewhere if I were you. Someplace warmer sounds good.
>
>
> healthcare
11' nth rank in Europe.
> 6 paid weeks vacation a year
> roads/infrastructure
What roads ? We have about 24 mls of freeway.. rest is .. hillbilly crap
killing people.
> plus, id be willing to bet the govt officials from the street sweeper to
> the president make damn good money and pensions.
They do.. "boys club"
> i love america, but id bet we have more crime, homelessness,
> joblessness, sick and hungry than norway.
And still more oppurtunity for those who wnnts something..
BTW: How is San Diego ?
--
Jan Vagle
.............................oOo
Lanceandrew
---
believe it or not there's no piaggio dealer in manhattan (to my
knowledge)...which is a shame because imo scootering is going to ignite in the
u.s. from the city centers.
$/barrel of oil has broken records nearly everyday this week and sooner or
later people are going to have to consider and think through their
transportation modes.
brooklyn has a robust scooter culture. at the foot of wall street there's an
area where scooterist park...and you'll see about 50-60 scooters/day of all
stripes (no Chinese stuff)....all the good stuff.
I'm not really a person looking for highway scootering, etc. I aim to "get
about town in comfort with a touch of class"....that's all.
Side Note to Scooter folks looking to upgrade. Note about 3 weeks ago on this
ng some might recall a guy bought a brand new Aprilia Atlantic 200 for $5K when
the smoke cleared. Today (about an hour ago) an '04 Aprilia Atlantic 200cc
with 1K miles sold for $2,850 on Ebay. These two transactions took place
within 300-400 miles of each other....and that's 40% depreciation to retail
market on the same scooter (one having 1K miles) within 1 month.
I'm just learning about the scooter market.....and it blows my mind....on what
values you can get if your prudent and patient....
I'm just going to let winter set in...and let people think about that '03 and
'04 scooter they bought....and buy when there's least demand...at the ususual
suspects...ebay, scoot.net, anythingatv, etc....
scootgirl.com
news:2onbi0F...@uni-berlin.de...
> scootgirl.com wrote:
>
> > I can see why someone would want ABS, but I'm with you on linked
braking.
> > One of the things they taught in the MSF class was if the front wheel
ever
> > locks up immediately let go of the brake and reapply gently but firmly.
If
> > the rear brake locks up hold onto it until you stop.
>
> This MSF-teacher is an inexperienced, nonlogical moron !
> A tyre grip its best on the verge of skidding, NOT skidding. And a rear
tire
> skidding might cause the rear end to slid out of direction causing you to
> flip when you release the brakes.
> ****** MSF-idiot !
Why was he a moron again? I've read that a few times but still can't figure
it out.
SoCalMike
> what dealers are close?
> ---
> believe it or not there's no piaggio dealer in manhattan (to my
> knowledge)...which is a shame because imo scootering is going to ignite in the
> u.s. from the city centers.
i thought there was one, at least in NYC.
>
> $/barrel of oil has broken records nearly everyday this week and sooner or
> later people are going to have to consider and think through their
> transportation modes.
i havent been paying attention to the news lately, but in southern
california, i filled up at $1.91/gal today. it hasnt been under $2 in a
long time.
>
> brooklyn has a robust scooter culture. at the foot of wall street there's an
> area where scooterist park...and you'll see about 50-60 scooters/day of all
> stripes (no Chinese stuff)....all the good stuff.
still lots of old ones/vintage vespas? or primarily newer- 80's - present?
>
> I'm not really a person looking for highway scootering, etc. I aim to "get
> about town in comfort with a touch of class"....that's all.
storage space would be nice too. or it would be for me if i lived in the
big city.
>
> Side Note to Scooter folks looking to upgrade. Note about 3 weeks ago on this
> ng some might recall a guy bought a brand new Aprilia Atlantic 200 for $5K when
> the smoke cleared. Today (about an hour ago) an '04 Aprilia Atlantic 200cc
> with 1K miles sold for $2,850 on Ebay. These two transactions took place
> within 300-400 miles of each other....and that's 40% depreciation to retail
> market on the same scooter (one having 1K miles) within 1 month.
well... thats kinda an extremely small sample. i personally wouldnt pay
$5k for ANY 200cc scooter, even a 50's vespa still in the shipping crate
hidden in some back room.
and the $2850 '04? good price, considering a new elite 80 runs over $2k.
my prognosis? the first buyer got ripped, the ebay buyer got a decent deal.
>
> I'm just learning about the scooter market.....and it blows my mind....on what
> values you can get if your prudent and patient....
yup. i bought an 86 elite 150, garaged, needed a tank cleaning and new
battery for $400... drove it 2 years, resold for $800. shoulda kept
it... it was a keeper. digital dash, popup headlight, virtually mint.
bought an 86 helix w/12k miles on it for $800. garaged, needed battery.
drove it 3 years, put 10k miles on it before i sold it for $1500. it was
in excellent shape too.
but i took that $1500, and another $4000 out of pocket, and bought an 04
burgman 400 outright.
>
> I'm just going to let winter set in...and let people think about that '03 and
> '04 scooter they bought....and buy when there's least demand...at the ususual
> suspects...ebay, scoot.net, anythingatv, etc....
yup. supposedly the best days are right after xmas, or the end of any
month in the winter. if they want that sale to count toward that month,
theyll do it.
SoCalMike
> And still more oppurtunity for those who wnnts something..
>
>
> BTW: How is San Diego ?
im in LA, but have been to SD... seems more laid back, more mellow.
housing prices still suck, but theres more "open space" down there.
SoCalMike
he misread. basically, he reiterated what the MSF guy said... if you
lock the rear (BAD!), keep it locked.
but, um... try not to in the first place, mmkay?
its difficult for me, since i *have 30% of my braking power going to the
front disc, no matter what*
just wanted to reiterate that.
btw... the only time i HAVE locked the rear, was on purpose. i was doing
about 10mph on a gravel road, and wanted to see what would happen. i had
my legs in full "outrigger" mode, just in case :)
> Karen
> http://scootgirl.com/
>
>
Dave Wood
the zuma. It'll fix it right up and you can hold your head high in the
scooter pecking order. I think the zuma is a great scooter. It's yamahas own
idea of an offroad/urban assault scooter - For a long time it was unique -
no retro/pseudo retro styling but it doesn't look like another
speedfight/phantom type modern scooter. The Zuma screams "I'm smarter than
you 'cause I didn't spend a load on a name"
-Dave
"Lanceandrew" <lance...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040820140659...@mb-m02.aol.com...
> What are you riding today Lance ? You wouldn't be caught dead on a
Italian
> bike, right ?
> _
> you'd laugh you ass off at me. 4 months ago i bought a used '01 50cc
yamaha
> zuma on ebay for $430. i did so for "rehersal purposes"...to play out in
real
> life my imaginary theoretical model of how useful and practical a scooter
would
> be for me...an cheap/low cost experiment you might say.
snip
> It's just that when I'm at a stop light...I'll see an ET2 or ET4, a
> Scarabeo/S-Wing/Burg, whatever...and think, "wow"...."..why don't I have
> one?"...and then I'll see the Chinese Restaurant delivery guy on his
> Zuma....and instantly my brain thinks, ",....what's wrong with this
> picture"?.....I admit it...I don't like being at the bottom of the totem
pole,
> the first to be eaten in the food chain.
>
snip
Eric Franz
earn wouldn't be worth the second rate health care(as it always ends up
being when socialized) and 6 weeks vacation. the roads here are fine, if
congested, but really, that's the fault of the citizens and the gross lack
of mass transportation in most cities and idea that everyone needs a car.
that, and not enough scooters on the road so you can slide up on through the
cars to the front of the pack...heh
Eric
"SoCalMike" <mikein562...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:DkyVc.288262$a24.274362@attbi_s03...
Bryce Ludwig
news:7myVc.45965$mD.20435@attbi_s02:
Yeah, most of my Spanish is that way too. I imagine it will get altered a
bit though because the graduate program for geology my wife is in has a
bunch of Puerto Ricans in it. Puerto Rico is a place I certainly wouldn't
mind living.
scootgirl.com
news:zICVc.8597$3O3....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Scooter envy? Just get yourself a "your scooter sucks" sticker and put it
on
> the zuma. It'll fix it right up and you can hold your head high in the
> scooter pecking order. I think the zuma is a great scooter. It's yamahas
own
> idea of an offroad/urban assault scooter - For a long time it was unique -
> no retro/pseudo retro styling but it doesn't look like another
> speedfight/phantom type modern scooter. The Zuma screams "I'm smarter than
> you 'cause I didn't spend a load on a name"
>
> -Dave
>
Yeah! Or/and paint it like this to turn heads:
http://tokyoscoot.scootgirl.com/images/DSC03681.JPG <-- one seriously
bad-ass looking scooter.
SoCalMike
>
> Yeah! Or/and paint it like this to turn heads:
> http://tokyoscoot.scootgirl.com/images/DSC03681.JPG <-- one seriously
> bad-ass looking scooter.
>
Lanceandrew
> bad-ass looking scooter.
>
thats sweet!
you think so? that's looks like some military-spec scooter. zuma's are rugged
puppies. they can take a beating, abuse, and they just keep on cruising.
fyi, the seller of that Atlantic 500 on Ebay <overnight> added a "but it now
price" of $3,995 on that 2004 scooter with 1K miles.
Of course the first person who chanced upon that deal at the odd hour it
offered that buy it now price bought it immediately. i was watching that item
and could not believe it when i saw it. that's a hell of a deal on a top of
the food chain scooter...that's really only perhaps got the Burg650 and S-Wing
ahead of it.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2487590
067&category=38627&sspagename=WDVW
gareth
--
Gary
"Jan Vagle" <bones...@broadpark.no> wrote in message
news:2omv57F...@uni-berlin.de...
> Bryce Ludwig wrote:
>
> > Jan Vagle <bones...@broadpark.no> wrote in news:2olq23Fc1roqU1@uni-
> > berlin.de:
> >
> >
> >
> >>Hahaha ! :)
> >>First of all: We DON'T have free healthcare, and that 'care' there is is
> >>third grade...
> >>Second: We have 6 weeks off a year, thats all...
> >
> >
> > What do you get in return for your taxes then?
>
> Nothing. It is all stashed in 'founds'.
>
> The total taxation level of income->real stuff you really can hold in your
> hand is about +80%
>
> Example: A 20 packet of cigarettes cost about $10, and theres all sorts of
> annual fees for just posession of stuff, properties and real estate.
> Cost of gas is just about $5.15 a (US) Gallon for 95 octane leadfree.
> The cheapest model (1.4 litre engine, no acc.) of a VW Golf cost about
$+29.000
> Your standard Golf 1.8T will cost us about $ 50.000
>
> Rendering us to drive the oldest carpark in Europe, it self killing
people.
>
> One bottle of 'Absolut' vodka will cost about $55, into Norways regime it
> will cost about $4
>
> The average gross income is about $ 38.000 and before you recieve a cent
> minimum 36% goes to income taxes.
> Add 24% sales tax, you have before additional taxes less than 50% to
spend.
>
> 50% to spend at the worlds highest pricelevel. One exeption on apartements
> etc.. Tokyo is more expensive..
>
> Why we still live here ? I don't know, still too many socialist still
> standing with their hats in their hands saying "Yes lord, thanks lord"..
> Many of us fleed the country in the years between 1910~1935 mostly living
in
> Iowa, S/N Dakota, Illinois and of course Minnesota.. :)
>
> Yes, I'm pissed off.
I should think so. You people need a revolution to take back your lives. I'm
serious.
gary