X-Treme XM-3000 Electric Scooter/Motorcycle For Sale in Upstate NY
Leftie
Local pickup only. The ad has an email link, or you can ask about it
here.
Leftie
I've been riding this bike for a few weeks now, and I'm having a
blast with it. If people are interested in a review I'll post one here.
I'm in no hurry to sell it now...
Denizen
> Leftie wrote:
>
> I've been riding this bike for a few weeks now, and I'm having a
> blast with it. If people are interested in a review I'll post one here.
> I'm in no hurry to sell it now...
From the description (3000watts etc) this would be a motorcycle in
Ontario, if it could be licensed for the street. How is it licensed at
your location?
I just recently bought an "electric bicycle" to cover similar distance
as my gas scooter but with battery charging at both ends of the
commute. This is a 7-speed bicycle with a 450watt motor at the back
wheel. < 500watt electric bicycles have been legal in Ontario for 3 or
4 years now, and they're used in the same way as a bicycle.
I like my electic bicycle but am disappointed in the limited range on
electric power. My 50cc gas scooter has infinite range as long as
there are filling stations, and it's much faster than the electric
bicycle too.
Are any other scooter group folks using electric vehicle power? How do
you like electric-powered travel?
d.
paul c
It seems to me that the vendors of electric bikes and scoots that use
lead-acid (SLA) batteries don't advertise the whole story. Lead-acid
batteries don't survive repeated full discharges very well, they're more
suited for high current discharge, ie. partial discharge, for a brief
time before re-charging. So when a bike or scoot is advertised as
having a twenty klic range, that is best case when new and is not likely
to be true after a few months of use or even less. The range of SLA
seems to fall rapidly after a few dozen hours of use, based on a couple
of ebikes that a friend and I had. Now I use the motor only for helping
me up hills, which amount to only several miles or less on my typical rides.
Apparently lithium-ion batteries are better in this respect but I have
no experience with those. SLA batteries are popular because they are
widely available, being more suitable for automotive use and much
cheaper than the others.
Denizen
>
> It seems to me that the vendors of electric bikes and scoots that use
> lead-acid (SLA) batteries don't advertise the whole story. Lead-acid
> batteries don't survive repeated full discharges very well, they're more
> suited for high current discharge, ie. partial discharge, for a brief
> time before re-charging. So when a bike or scoot is advertised as
> having a twenty klic range, that is best case when new and is not likely
> to be true after a few months of use or even less. The range of SLA
> seems to fall rapidly after a few dozen hours of use, based on a couple
> of ebikes that a friend and I had. Now I use the motor only for helping
> me up hills, which amount to only several miles or less on my typical rides.
>
first two rides I totally discharged the battery as directed by the
manufacturer, and now I'm supposed to only partially discharge the
battery, then recharge immediately. That's what I'll do in the 15km
ride to my office, carrying the little charger in a padded bag. In
completely discharging the battery I went to the office and back,
pedaling all the time and using supplemental battery power up hill and
into the wind. The point is to get some exercise too, so the electric
bike may work out ok. BTW it's a Canadian Tire Schwinn 700c tire bike
imported by Dorel Industries, with a Currie Electro-drive system. You
can add a second SLA battery but then the bike would weigh a ton more.
I have to wonder about the scooter-type e-bikes that can't be
effectively pedaled. Also, there are lead-acid batteries for starting
a car or motorcyle, and storage-type batteries for electric vehicles.
Hopefully e-bikes have the latter type of battery, and Wikipedia has
extensive information on batteries.
> Apparently lithium-ion batteries are better in this respect but I have
> no experience with those.
I was warned off lithium batteries by someone who had experience with
high-end e-bikes; he recommended nickel metal hydride battery power.
Apparently lithium batteries may totally fail unexpectedly, and then
they're very expensive to replace. I had this happen with a new
lithium-powered electric drill, which was then replaced under
warranty.
d.
Leftie
I'll post in more detail later, as I'm on my way to work. Two quick
answers:
The bike is registered as a class II "Moped" in NY. That makes it
legal for use on all highways, although with a supposed 40MPH limit on
speed, I'd avoid interstates. My Lepton scooter is registered as a Class
III scooter, and is limited to secondary roads. Both bikes require
helmets, but only the X-Treme needs an annual inspection. I don't
remember if the Lepton needs a motorcycle operator's license, but the
X-Treme does.
The SLA problem is real, but overstated by the previous poster. I've
had a Lepton electric scooter that I bought 'new old stock' from Ebay
about 6 years ago. Capacity is down about 40% from when it was new, but
I've also learned a lot about riding for economy, and can still ride it
for 15 miles. The X-Treme scooter gets pretty amazing range in Economy
mode: I can go 20 miles and use less than half the charge, while riding
at 20 MPh to even 45MPh (downhill). You can take these batteries down to
20% of charge fairly often - the key is to not go much lower then that,
and to always recharge *immediately*. So if you want to commute with
one, you need to recharge at work to preserve the batteries, even if the
range allows you to skip it.
Leftie
> On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 22:42:31 -0500, Leftie <N...@Thanks.net> declaimed the
> following in alt.scooter:
>
>
>> The SLA problem is real, but overstated by the previous poster. I've
>> had a Lepton electric scooter that I bought 'new old stock' from Ebay
>> about 6 years ago. Capacity is down about 40% from when it was new, but
>> I've also learned a lot about riding for economy, and can still ride it
>> for 15 miles. The X-Treme scooter gets pretty amazing range in Economy
>> mode: I can go 20 miles and use less than half the charge, while riding
>> at 20 MPh to even 45MPh (downhill). You can take these batteries down to
>> 20% of charge fairly often - the key is to not go much lower then that,
>> and to always recharge *immediately*. So if you want to commute with
>> one, you need to recharge at work to preserve the batteries, even if the
>> range allows you to skip it.
>
> "starter" batteries [starter batteries are designed for a short, but
> very high amperage, use -- my SC8000 charger has an 80A jumpstart mode
> which can be used for 5-10 seconds, and then it enforces a 3 minute
> cool-down... 80A won't start my 4L 6cyl Jeep if the battery is dead; it
> will help if the battery has had 30-60 minutes charging at 12-30A].
Yes, all of these scooters use deep cycle batteries, either AGM or
gel cell type. Starting batteries wouldn't last two months under serious
use.
paul c
...
> I have to wonder about the scooter-type e-bikes that can't be
> effectively pedaled. Also, there are lead-acid batteries for starting
> a car or motorcyle, and storage-type batteries for electric vehicles.
> Hopefully e-bikes have the latter type of battery, and Wikipedia has
> extensive information on batteries.
I believe the difference in a 'deep cycle' SLA battery is mostly just
plate thickness (less surface area), which comes down to weight, so
theoretically one could use several 'deep-cycle' marine batteries for
longer range but they'd probably be too heavy for most bicycles to
balance very well. I'd guess they might be more practical with a
bicycle trailer to carry them, I've seen a couple of those.
As for e-scooters, a lot of the cheaper ones seem to use the (also
cheaper) non-deep-cycle batteries. The pedals on the e-scoots I've tried
seemed pointless, ungeared and turning them felt like a duck waddling.
Denizen
> As for e-scooters, a lot of the cheaper ones seem to use the (also
> cheaper) non-deep-cycle batteries. The pedals on the e-scoots I've tried
> seemed pointless, ungeared and turning them felt like a duck waddling.
today. 15km each way and charging at work.
My first experience driving a motor vehicle was a heavy Berini moped
in the old country. Under power it was fine, but pedaling was as you
describe, like a duck waddling :) .
d.
Denizen
>
> Yes, all of these scooters use deep cycle batteries, either AGM or
> gel cell type. Starting batteries wouldn't last two months under serious
As mentioned elsewhere, my e-bike is working pretty well with
recharging at work. The bicycle is also very solidly built; wasn't
expecting that. It was imported from China, where there are millions
of e-bikes in daily use.
When the batteries eventually die I'll probably open the battery pack
to see whether there are informative labels on the two 12v batteries
within.
d.
paul c
It may be the same 24V Schwinn with the Currie chain drive my friend
bought last year from Can' Tire on sale for CAD 379, which I thought was
a pretty fair deal, regardless of battery type. I've had has apart to
put in a new plug (the original disintegrated, he rides to the coffee
shop every day for his exercise, he's eighty years old and uses the
batteries to help get home which is partly uphill, about two klics each
way).
I wrote down the (Chinese) battery info but don't have it in front of
me. The batteries resembled the same kind that are used for home alarm
systems. With thin terminals, not the think kind that m/c's and cars
have for high starter current draw. This made me think that perhaps the
plates are thicker even though the labelling outside gives no hint of
that. They were rated 12AH. I used to know a guy who had a friend at
an alarm company, he got their old batteries for free, most had not been
used much, they were just required to replace them every two years no
matter what. Another friend told me today he has a similar source for
home alarm batteries, I think I will get some and make up a case for
friend (24v) and me (36V).
Another theory I have is that the cheaper ebikes come with fairly basic
chargers. For my scooters and bikes I've always used a four-stage CTEK,
which will de-sulphate to some degree, although it can take up to a week
for a small m/c battery. I remember seeing some online plans for such
chargers, the key for de-sulphating is to have a constant-current mode
whereas most of the cheaper chargers have only constant-voltage behaviour.
paul c
...
> It may be the same 24V Schwinn with the Currie chain drive my friend
> bought last year from Can' Tire on sale for CAD 379, which I thought was
Including tax! At the time, BC charged no PST on ebikes, I think that
has changed, so I think he paid only 5% Canuck GST. I think the Loonie
was within a few percent of the USD at the time. Now that the Chinese
are floating their currency, I imagine that their batteries and other
stuff will go up in price even when on sale.
Denizen
and fairly thin 700c tires. The motor is chain drive, hanging off the
back axle.
I paid $500 plus HST "on sale" but what the heck. Old stock, no doubt.
BTW in my northern Ontario city e-bikes are very rare on the streets,
as are motor scooters. The usual badge of manhood is a large pickup
truck with a hemi under the hood, or at least an SUV. Folks don't know
the good things they're missing!
d.
paul c
The pickups are nNot much different from southwest BC, except for the
winters (and rust!). Years ago I spent a lot of time going up to Parry
Sound in the winter (only because of a beautiful girl) somewhat south of
you, and that was enough for me in the days when my feet didn't get so
cold, let alone now! Now the main two-wheeled problem I have is
occasional black ice, a few days a year everything goes silent and you
just cross your fingers, try to avoid any sudden movement and hope that
you will pass it before it ends. Not boasting, the northern ON people
are a tough bunch, much more so than I.
Leftie
It's almost certainly Chinese-made gel cell batteries. I doubt that
any Chinese companies import batteries, and no well-designed bike would
use starting batteries.
R. LaCasse
|> Yes, all of these scooters use deep cycle batteries, either AGM or
|>gel cell type. Starting batteries wouldn't last two months under serious
|>use.
deep cycle batteries = Marine types
AGM= starting and running, but uses a lower voltage to charge than Wet SLA,
and should hold some 13.5 volts on auto float. These can't take a discharge
like marine and Wet.
gel cell= running only and being replaced by some "AGM" hybrids since
1980...these cannot be desulfated, one discharge and your gone.
On a Shumacher SC1200, (less than Dennis Lee Bieber's high amp one)
has 3 settings
1]Standard 14.4 stage 16v desulfation and 13.3v++ float base
2]Marine less charging volts than Wet, but can deep cycle 13.3v++ float base
3]AGM/Gel 13.7 desulfation and charge with a 13.4v++ float base
The are good chargers if you like a lot of LEDs, but the AGMs/Gel
need a special wimpy charger to avoid surface charges....constant chargers
are best.......there's a world of knowledge on this stuff, that can fill up
a library of 500 books, so who can explain it here...try all in the AGM/Gel
low volt range for the full float charge effect that even Battery Tender
plus does not have, like Optima$.....$chumachers have been in battery
Charger/testers business for 60 years......Auto Sense on Demand work best if
you're NOT sure or don't have the time to calibrate the better constant
charger.
Bob
--
National Association of Assault Research
Soul Yamaha Majesty400 2005, Grey, Night Rider!
http://*remove*tarbitch.balder.prohosting.com/scooter.html
http://*remove*pages.istar.ca/~vampire/YamyMajesty400.jpg
Leftie
Your definitions for battery types are off. AGM batteries are deep
cycle. Marine batteries are for "starting and running." AGM batteries
handle deep discharges well, and also physical shocks. Gel batteries are
deep cycle, but less robust.
Bob
Nope not ever....AGM can't handle a Deep cycle like Marine types,
they are hard to revive once they get to 12v=10%
|>cycle. Marine batteries are for "starting and running."
They vary in terminology of "Marine" category....
|> AGM batteries
|>handle deep discharges well, and also physical shocks.
No AGM can handle deep discharges like some Wet/SLA or Marine can.
|>Gel batteries are
|>deep cycle, but less robust.
Nope, GEL is like an AGM as they are charged alike, but GEL cannot
be desulphated at all.
What I am referencing here in
|>> 1]Standard 14.4 stage 16v desulfation and 13.3v++ float base
|>> 2]Marine less charging volts than Wet, but can deep cycle 13.3v++ float base
|>> 3]AGM/Gel 13.7 desulfation and charge with a 13.4v++ float base
......... is the way an autocharger handles the charging algorithm output
for these types of batteries.....
Fer instance your little charger reference manual says that NO AGM
has Vents, whereas a lot of them (mostly chinese) have in the real world.
Most times you can't tell until you open them, and ruin the balance pressure
balance, just to find the AGM white foam plates.
Most Batts these days are AGM (Aggregated Glass Matte), some are
hybrids, called Fumion and other hybrid names for various
commercial/indutrial reasons that are not to clear to me yet....Marketing
jerking around???
SEE NG:
Message-ID: <NrtQm.9880$Ym4....@text.news.virginmedia.com>
news:NrtQm.9880$Ym4....@text.news.virginmedia.com
Bob
Leftie
> On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 21:43:38 -0500, Leftie <N...@Thanks.net> declaimed the
> following in alt.scooter:
>
>> cycle. Marine batteries are for "starting and running." AGM batteries
>> handle deep discharges well, and also physical shocks. Gel batteries are
>> deep cycle, but less robust.
>
> "deep discharge" -- electric trolling motor on 12ft aluminum fishing
> dinghy... Not as "salt water safe battery" for 24+ft sea-going power
> boats...
He is, but there are several types of "marine" batteries and they
aren't the only "deep cycle" batteries out there - not by a long shot.
It's easy to get tripped up in definitions, especially when we post in
haste. It's generally safe to assume that a commercial EV or
battery-assist vehicle will use some type of deep cycle battery.