Drive belt overheating
scooter pride
and a few days after I got it the drive belt broke. I purchased a new
one and replaced it. The next day I had gone about 4 miles from my
house and the belt broke againj, melted , smelled like burning
rubber...
So I again purchased another belt, and replaced it, only now I am too
afraid of getting stranded so I only go a few blocks from my house!!!
Ia there a belt cooling system that I am missing? Is there something
in the drivetrain that would cause the belt to overheat? Even on
short rides it seems to get hot back there? Does the air filter and
intake feed any air down to the belt/pulley area?
Help.
Thanks
Animeniac
I expect it is like the CH250, which has it own air cleaner for the belt
case. I don't think there is forced air, but maybe so. Pull the
filter, and see if it is clogged.
Take a look a the diagram at www.bikebandit.com to see how it is laid
out.
Anime arimasu ka? (Got Anime?)
Animeniac
How did it run with the new belt? Acceleration, noise?
When the belts broke, what happened to the scooter? Were you going at
higher speeds? Did the rear wheel lock?
I always wondered what would happen if the belt broke, and would it be
dangerous or just troublesome.
Bob
<robcph...@hotmail.com> wrote:
|>
|>Ia there a belt cooling system that I am missing? Is there something
|>in the drivetrain that would cause the belt to overheat? Even on
|>short rides it seems to get hot back there? Does the air filter and
|>intake feed any air down to the belt/pulley area?
Al CVT's have the same belt cooling system, just different shapes
mostly.....
The ch250 is always hard on the belt, I had 1 for 50,000k and still
working, but the smell from city driving was there......hell I get that
sometimes on my new Majesty.
The ch250 has a washable/reusable black felt filter costing about
$2 secured in a triangular slot by 2 of those pipe strap pings, you have all
the place....clean it with a water squeeze.
Bob
So sorry I missed the original post detail, ( '87 CH150
Elite).....what you have is a bad belt.....it's proly old/chaffed....maybe
have one soaked in "rubber renue" or Brake fluid, but the mechanics should
know that revitalizing trick already, which is proly what they installed
from an older model....
Bob
<robcph...@hotmail.com> wrote:
|>Ia there a belt cooling system that I am missing? Is there something
|>in the drivetrain that would cause the belt to overheat? Even on
|>short rides it seems to get hot back there? Does the air filter and
|>intake feed any air down to the belt/pulley area?
Does the CVT cooling fan (front clutch with the rollers) pulley
still have fins on it, are they broken?
The CVT cooling fan get's the 1st intake of air till it's integrated
and passed to the Air Filter-->plenum chamber--> carburator-->motor.
I still think your buying a defective recycled product, unless your
doing 0-->60mph in 1 second>:)......then some clutch tensioning may be
needed or the clutch plates aren't smooth for some mysterious reason.
meman
sounds like something CVT related is not right (new belt broke nearly
imediately?).
I first suspect clutch issues, then next the front pulley.
And I don't think this is caused by clogged CVT air filters (even if they
were completely clogged it most likely wouldn't snap these belts)
1st get a service manual, or at least a link showing all CVT parts
Everything installed properly? (see service manual).
You sure it's the CORRECT belt for the scoot?
You sure there's no parts/metal/debris in there anywhere in the CVT?
Are you sure all CVT parts are intact (everything, every washer, etc.)?
Drive and driven pulley faces are intact, ok, even and smooth, clean, not
bent filthy, etc.
Boss is ok, no shaft gears chewed, no bearings shot?
Clutch is pivoting/moving, main spring ok, clutch weight springs are intact
and working, etc...etc.
In other words I'd go over each part there with a fine toothed comb and rule
it out completely before putting on any new belt. I can't see this being a
'bad belt" issue nor "normal" heat related issue.
Something in there sounds wrong and it's before the belt.
* but...i'm sure it's not unheard of to put on a bad belt (used or
new)...but I highly doubt it. ya never know, best to rule things out first.
GL
"scooter pride" <robcph...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2170a528-7673-433f...@s9g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
meman
Also...when's the last time you did a final drive oil change? inspect the
oil and it's level (and know which bolts are the drain and fill holes).
I would take some time to inspect that which means taking things apart and
getting that final drive cover off (again - you need a service manual)...as
well as the crank and operation there.
You will need a new final drive over gasket - don't reuse.
You may have a shot bearing in there (incorrect, no, or old oil will help
this along fast. Change it once a year).
Again, if it's CVT or clutch or final drive related - all of the above isn't
exactly ok news nor very simple to fix (if only because of parts ability to
find certain parts)...but, it can be done with soem perserverance. I do
hope it's not what I'm suspecting here and it's a rather easy resolve.
Those are great scoots and last a good long time - when properly maintained.
"meman" <bi...@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:faidnXkpHt5J6kzV...@comcast.com...
tomcas
Sounds like you got the wrong size belt, twice, and it's slipping.
R. LaCasse
To: *****
Subject: RE: Drive belt overheating
From: Rob Phillips <robcph...@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 12:34:48 -0600
Thanks for the info -
Yes the drive pulley still has fins, I will clean the filter though that is
a good thought.
How would I increase the clutch tensioning as suggested, the belt does seem
loose? The clutch plates are smooth (other than the melted rubber from the
previous melt downs).
Thanks
Rob Phillips
R. LaCasse
One of your best moves, at this point is to get the Service Manual
from original or alternate places....I know they cost from the dealer, but
the other places have a good price:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/
there's a lot of other clymer type sources for this model....
Bob
paul c
> To: *****
> Subject: RE: Drive belt overheating
> From: Rob Phillips <robcph...@hotmail.com>
> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 12:34:48 -0600
>
>
> Thanks for the info -
>
> Yes the drive pulley still has fins, I will clean the filter though that is
> a good thought.
>
> How would I increase the clutch tensioning as suggested, the belt does seem
> loose? The clutch plates are smooth (other than the melted rubber from the
> previous melt downs).
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Rob Phillips
(Thread seems a little mangled, sorry if I'm replying to the wrong
message.)
I'd suggest to check Meman's advice again.
Also, when you say "belt seems loose", that's a little worrisome. Using
your haand, it shouldn't slide easily with the engine not running.
There should always be some tension. Double-check your assembly, ie.,
that you put the variator spacer/boss in the right position (assuming it
has one and that you did pull the variator to put the new belt on), I
suspect it's possible that the variator path could be too wide at rest
and when the face moves, maybe the belt gets pinched.
See
http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorcycles/honda-motorcycle-ch150-elite-1987/o/m2081
for variator parts explosion.
As the other posters said, this assumes it is the right belt.
Also turn the engine, clutch and transmission by hand with the belt off
and listen for bad, eg., grinding noises and wiggle the rear wheel,
there shouldn't be more than an eighth of inch side to side play, max.
After the new belt is on, turn the wheel by hand, feeling and listening
for anything strange, at most all you should hear might be a little
tingle from the clutch weights, maybe not even that. Then put a wrench
on the variator nut and turn the engine by hand (this will be easier if
you remove the spark plug) and observe how the belt behaves, it should
grab both the variator (drive face) and clutch (driven face) even when
you turn the crank slowly by hand.
paul c
> ... belt behaves, it should
> grab both the variator (drive face) and clutch (driven face) even when
> you turn the crank slowly by hand.
>
Forgot to mention, make sure you turn the engine in it's normal
direction, when you are on the left-hand side of the scoot that will be
counter-clockwise, same as the rear wheel. Also, make sure the variator
nut is tight, preferably by borrowing a torque wrench if you don't have
one - it makes a real mess when the variator nut comes off and the
belt might not be the only part to replace. Loc-tite is also a good idea.
meman
the correct belt for your scoot?
Send us a link to the one you bought, or post the part #
>"tomcas" <tom...@mjwebsitedesign.com> wrote in message
>news:48d15033$0$4897$607e...@cv.net...
SoCalMike
> Hello master mechanics. I own an '87 CH150 Elite. It has 16000 miles
> and a few days after I got it the drive belt broke. I purchased a new
> one and replaced it. The next day I had gone about 4 miles from my
> house and the belt broke againj, melted , smelled like burning
> rubber...
when youre replacing, you arent doing anything to the new belt, are you?
soaking it in alcohol? spraying everything down with brake
cleaner/alcohol when assembled?
how are you installing the belt? by taking the front pulley off? rear?
both?
(there are tricks that worked with the helix and elite 250, like
squeezing the rear pulleys together to slack the belt, then remove by
walking it over the front pulley. installation is reverse.)
how are the pulley halves (front and rear)? smooth? clean? no burrs?
hows the front half (drive pulley)? are the rollers ok and loose? the
bushing over the crankshaft bolt smooth, clean, with a miniscule amount
of grease? do the pullies slide open and shut easily?
a lot of these concepts apply to almost all CVT trannys, from the aero80
to the helix, to the suzuki burgman and majesty 400
>
> So I again purchased another belt, and replaced it, only now I am too
> afraid of getting stranded so I only go a few blocks from my house!!!
>
> Ia there a belt cooling system that I am missing? Is there something
> in the drivetrain that would cause the belt to overheat? Even on
> short rides it seems to get hot back there? Does the air filter and
> intake feed any air down to the belt/pulley area?
the belt cooling system for the 80s era honda scoots is a fan in the
front pully, sucking air in through a DRY foam filter and exiting out
the rear. it works well, no known problems.
the biggest belt ruiners for novice mechanics are:
-oil or any chemical on the belt
-damaging the belt when installing (stretching, ripping)
-binding pullys
-pinching the belt in the front pully when reassembling the front driven
face pully
>
> Help.
>
> Thanks
R. LaCasse
<mikein562...@hotmail.com> wrote:
|>
|>(there are tricks that worked with the helix and elite 250, like
|>squeezing the rear pulleys together to slack the belt, then remove by
|>walking it over the front pulley. installation is reverse.)
Don't you spread the gap in the rear for some slack to walk over the
front.....if you squeeze the rear pulley, it tensions right?
meman
that was damaged).
I have heard that basic brake cleaner isn't problematic for these belts
(auto or scoots)...you're saying otherwise. Interesting.
I've heard many techs clean pulleys and belts with it after completing work
in that area (grime/grease on belts, etc.).
Working on my Chevy S10 I accidentally got grease/grime on the belt and
pulley, some dealership serv techs I talked to said use a bit of brake or
belt cleaner on it (saying they were both very similar) - but do not let the
grease spread further.
I'm not arguing with ya though...I think you make a good point.
BTW: What would you use to clean a belt/pulley and help it extend its life
best?
"SoCalMike" <mikein562...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:gav8s...@news5.newsguy.com...
R. LaCasse
TOP post corrected....OK?
On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 12:20:59 -0700, "meman" <bi...@microsoft.com> wrote:
|>"SoCalMike" <mikein562...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
|>news:gav8s...@news5.newsguy.com...
|>
|>> when youre replacing, you arent doing anything to the new belt, are you?
|>> soaking it in alcohol? spraying everything down with brake cleaner/alcohol
|>> when assembled?
|>>
|>
|>Not sure this would affect a new belt really (maybe a really old belt or one
|>that was damaged).
|>
I'm not sure about brake cleaner, but *in the long run*, alcohol is
bad for rubber, it dries it out, but on a CVT belt it shouldn't matter
anymore than spilling on a tyre.......
Not even then, but brake Rubber Renue or Brake fluid might wreck it,
assuming the Belt was all "rotten" too hardened and cracked....it would snap
before that happens.....
|>I have heard that basic brake cleaner isn't problematic for these belts
|>(auto or scoots)...you're saying otherwise. Interesting.
|>I've heard many techs clean pulleys and belts with it after completing work
|>in that area (grime/grease on belts, etc.).
|>
Some use brake fluid....smells purty..
(http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/21396/Softening-Hard-Rubber)
|>I'm not arguing with ya though...I think you make a good point.
|>
Alcohols and Brake Fluids are opposite......some Rubber
Renue/Rejuvenators are a mild DOT brake fluid.....
A lot of Rubber Renue/Rejuvenators have been since outlawed in most
states due to it being an economic trick, and the extreme adverse effect it
has to the plastic the rubber is attached to, like in tape pinch rollers and
other belt driven things.
|>BTW: What would you use to clean a belt/pulley and help it extend its life
|>best?
|>
(http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/21396/Softening-Hard-Rubber)