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Kymco People 300 GTI vs Piaggio BV 350 ?
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bea...@sdf.org
Oct 17, 2012, 2:10:27 PM10/17/12
to
After riding a Kymco People 150 for 7 years I'm ready to upgrade to
something with more umph. It's mostly city riding so I've focused on the
shorter wheel base designs. I'm also partial to the bigger wheels. Adding
in considerations over parts availability narrowed things further to where
I'm just looking at the two scoots mentioned in the Subject line.
Having read the various online reviews I'd like to get feedback from some
actual owners &/or mechanics who've worked on either. The Piaggio has
some unique features, namely the wet clutch, for which only time will tell
how reliable it's going to be, though of course wet clutches aren't new
in the larger motorbike world.
something with more umph. It's mostly city riding so I've focused on the
shorter wheel base designs. I'm also partial to the bigger wheels. Adding
in considerations over parts availability narrowed things further to where
I'm just looking at the two scoots mentioned in the Subject line.
Having read the various online reviews I'd like to get feedback from some
actual owners &/or mechanics who've worked on either. The Piaggio has
some unique features, namely the wet clutch, for which only time will tell
how reliable it's going to be, though of course wet clutches aren't new
in the larger motorbike world.
Message has been deleted
phan...@nospam.invalid
Oct 20, 2012, 6:20:32 PM10/20/12
to
On Wed, 17 Oct 2012, beaker wrote the following in alt.scooter:
>> Having read the various online reviews I'd like to get feedback from some
>> actual owners &/or mechanics who've worked on either. The Piaggio has
>> some unique features, namely the wet clutch, for which only time will tell
>> how reliable it's going to be, though of course wet clutches aren't new
>> in the larger motorbike world.
On Thu, 18 Oct 2012, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>> Having read the various online reviews I'd like to get feedback from some
>> actual owners &/or mechanics who've worked on either. The Piaggio has
>> some unique features, namely the wet clutch, for which only time will tell
>> how reliable it's going to be, though of course wet clutches aren't new
>> in the larger motorbike world.
>Big difference though between a cable actuated clutch at the front
>of the transmission, and a centrifugal clutch at the back of the
>transmission. Even if both are multi-disk in oil...
I read a couple of online reviews but didn't see anything mentioned
about front cable or rear centrifical clutches. What's the deal
(pros/cons) with those?
Message has been deleted
bea...@sdf.org
Oct 20, 2012, 8:34:28 PM10/20/12
to
>The BV350 is still a CVT belt driven unit, where the clutch is
>between the rear transmission pulley and the drive axle. Being
>centrifugal, if the engine is idling a bit fast, there will still be
>friction -- same with the common dry centrifugal drum clutch. Dry drum
>clutch has the potential of having dust blow out; any dust from friction
>in the wet disk will eventually contaminate the oil...
I don't think there's any exposure to dust in the BV350 design; the clutch
is sealed off from the belt housing, at least that's how it appears in
the pics on this site:
http://www.scooterfile.com/oems/piaggio-group/inside-the-piaggio-bv350/
The page is short of specifics regarding how exactly the wet clutch works.
A little more can be gleaned here, though it's rather uncritical:
http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/motorcycles/2012models/2012-Piaggio-BeverlySportTouring350.htm
I test rode the BV350 earlier this week. Handles well and the seating
and arm positioning feels better than many scoots I've tried. One thing
that stood out was how much smoother compression braking was compared to
my Kymco P150 which has the usual centrifugal clutch on the CVT; no sudden
grabs, just felt like a regular bike as you roll off the throttle.
Still no idea how robust the new design will be. Out of curiosity I
downloaded the manuals for the BV350 and apparently they recommend
replacing the rollers every 2000 KM - kind of a short service life.
Probably I'll just wait a bit more and see what comes to light.
>between the rear transmission pulley and the drive axle. Being
>centrifugal, if the engine is idling a bit fast, there will still be
>friction -- same with the common dry centrifugal drum clutch. Dry drum
>clutch has the potential of having dust blow out; any dust from friction
>in the wet disk will eventually contaminate the oil...
I don't think there's any exposure to dust in the BV350 design; the clutch
is sealed off from the belt housing, at least that's how it appears in
the pics on this site:
http://www.scooterfile.com/oems/piaggio-group/inside-the-piaggio-bv350/
The page is short of specifics regarding how exactly the wet clutch works.
A little more can be gleaned here, though it's rather uncritical:
http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/motorcycles/2012models/2012-Piaggio-BeverlySportTouring350.htm
I test rode the BV350 earlier this week. Handles well and the seating
and arm positioning feels better than many scoots I've tried. One thing
that stood out was how much smoother compression braking was compared to
my Kymco P150 which has the usual centrifugal clutch on the CVT; no sudden
grabs, just felt like a regular bike as you roll off the throttle.
Still no idea how robust the new design will be. Out of curiosity I
downloaded the manuals for the BV350 and apparently they recommend
replacing the rollers every 2000 KM - kind of a short service life.
Probably I'll just wait a bit more and see what comes to light.
Message has been deleted
Phan...@nospam.invalid
Oct 22, 2012, 1:54:37 AM10/22/12
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On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 19:47:30 -0400, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>Manual transmission motorcycles have the clutch between the engine
>and the transmission, to take the pressure off the transmission when
>switching gears.
>The BV350 is still a CVT belt driven unit, where the clutch is
>between the rear transmission pulley and the drive axle. Being
>centrifugal, if the engine is idling a bit fast, there will still be
>friction -- same with the common dry centrifugal drum clutch. Dry drum
>clutch has the potential of having dust blow out; any dust from friction
>in the wet disk will eventually contaminate the oil -- and you will be
>in slipping range if trying to move slowly (the motorcycle may start
>with a faster engine and slippage, but as you pick up some speed, you
>can fully engage the clutch and let the engine just above stall speed;
>the CVT won't permit that since slowing the engine will result in more
>slippage of the clutch -- so more potential wear)
I understand what you're saying here but I'm not sure if you're
recommending one of these scooters over the other, or if you're
recommending neither of these, but something with a manual
transmission instead.
>Manual transmission motorcycles have the clutch between the engine
>and the transmission, to take the pressure off the transmission when
>switching gears.
>The BV350 is still a CVT belt driven unit, where the clutch is
>between the rear transmission pulley and the drive axle. Being
>centrifugal, if the engine is idling a bit fast, there will still be
>friction -- same with the common dry centrifugal drum clutch. Dry drum
>clutch has the potential of having dust blow out; any dust from friction
>in slipping range if trying to move slowly (the motorcycle may start
>with a faster engine and slippage, but as you pick up some speed, you
>can fully engage the clutch and let the engine just above stall speed;
>the CVT won't permit that since slowing the engine will result in more
>slippage of the clutch -- so more potential wear)
I understand what you're saying here but I'm not sure if you're
recommending one of these scooters over the other, or if you're
recommending neither of these, but something with a manual
transmission instead.
Phan...@nospam.invalid
Oct 22, 2012, 1:56:11 AM10/22/12
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On Sun, 21 Oct 2012, beaker declaimed the following:
>I sure hope that is a typo and was supposed to be 20,000km
Must have been a typo. The Piaggio Site says roller changes at 12,400
miles (which is approx 20,000km) and 24,800 miles which makes more
sense.
http://www.piaggiousa.com/scooters.html#!s=maintenance/bv-350
Maybe the 2,000km was for the wet clutch oil changes??
-shrug- I dunno. But that should certainly take care of the dust in
the oil problem. ;-)
hmmm.... well, maybe not. The above link has hub oil changes at 625
miles and 24,800 miles (and no, the 625 isn't a typo) I'm assuming by
"hub oil" they must mean "clutch oil"?
>> Still no idea how robust the new design will be. Out of curiosity I
>> downloaded the manuals for the BV350 and apparently they recommend
>> replacing the rollers every 2000 KM - kind of a short service life.
On Sun, 21 Oct 2012, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>> downloaded the manuals for the BV350 and apparently they recommend
>> replacing the rollers every 2000 KM - kind of a short service life.
>I sure hope that is a typo and was supposed to be 20,000km
Must have been a typo. The Piaggio Site says roller changes at 12,400
miles (which is approx 20,000km) and 24,800 miles which makes more
sense.
http://www.piaggiousa.com/scooters.html#!s=maintenance/bv-350
Maybe the 2,000km was for the wet clutch oil changes??
-shrug- I dunno. But that should certainly take care of the dust in
the oil problem. ;-)
hmmm.... well, maybe not. The above link has hub oil changes at 625
miles and 24,800 miles (and no, the 625 isn't a typo) I'm assuming by
"hub oil" they must mean "clutch oil"?
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Phan...@nospam.invalid
Oct 22, 2012, 10:41:41 PM10/22/12
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On Mon, 22 Oct 2012, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>The common dry drum clutch can be worked on
>without taking the rear hub apart as it is under the dust cover of the
>rear pulley. A wet clutch is likely inside the hub, so if the clutch
>does need service, they have to tear down the sealed portion of the hub
>(without a parts diagram I don't know if the centrifugal weights are on
>the outside, pushing a rod into the hub shaft to activate the clutch, or
>if the weights are inside the fluid also).
You are correct. The photos at the link Beaker posted upthread show
the clutch pretty clearly in Image 2 of 10 as well as Image 4 of 10.
And image 3 of 10 shows them prying it out with two screwdrivers. The
rear pulley goes on the outside (left side) of the clutch instead of
the clutch being on the outside like a dry clutch would be. And Image
7 of 10 shows the rear (as well as front) pulley with the belt on.
That little doohickey on the outside of the rear pulley is the housing
for the variator spring.
Looks pretty spiffy but you're right, you have to remove the rear
pulley and pull the clutch out to service it. And I'm not sure how
you change the clutch oil. There must be a fill and drain plug
somewhere but I don't see them in the photos.
Here's Beaker's link again.
http://www.scooterfile.com/oems/piaggio-group/inside-the-piaggio-bv350/
Scroll halfway down the page and click one of the photos. Then you can
click on the left/right arrows to find the images that I'm talking
about.
>The common dry drum clutch can be worked on
>without taking the rear hub apart as it is under the dust cover of the
>rear pulley. A wet clutch is likely inside the hub, so if the clutch
>does need service, they have to tear down the sealed portion of the hub
>(without a parts diagram I don't know if the centrifugal weights are on
>the outside, pushing a rod into the hub shaft to activate the clutch, or
>if the weights are inside the fluid also).
You are correct. The photos at the link Beaker posted upthread show
the clutch pretty clearly in Image 2 of 10 as well as Image 4 of 10.
And image 3 of 10 shows them prying it out with two screwdrivers. The
rear pulley goes on the outside (left side) of the clutch instead of
the clutch being on the outside like a dry clutch would be. And Image
7 of 10 shows the rear (as well as front) pulley with the belt on.
That little doohickey on the outside of the rear pulley is the housing
for the variator spring.
Looks pretty spiffy but you're right, you have to remove the rear
pulley and pull the clutch out to service it. And I'm not sure how
you change the clutch oil. There must be a fill and drain plug
somewhere but I don't see them in the photos.
Here's Beaker's link again.
http://www.scooterfile.com/oems/piaggio-group/inside-the-piaggio-bv350/
Scroll halfway down the page and click one of the photos. Then you can
click on the left/right arrows to find the images that I'm talking
about.
Phan...@nospam.invalid
Oct 22, 2012, 11:57:09 PM10/22/12
to
On Mon, 22 Oct 2012, Phantman wrote:
>And I'm not sure how
>you change the clutch oil. There must be a fill and drain plug
>somewhere but I don't see them in the photos.
>
>Here's Beaker's link again.
>
>http://www.scooterfile.com/oems/piaggio-group/inside-the-piaggio-bv350/
On second look at Image 6 of 10, you can see a bolt head on the
>And I'm not sure how
>you change the clutch oil. There must be a fill and drain plug
>somewhere but I don't see them in the photos.
>
>Here's Beaker's link again.
>
>http://www.scooterfile.com/oems/piaggio-group/inside-the-piaggio-bv350/
bottom, directly below the clutch. That might be the drain for the
clutch oil. And there's a bolt just above it that might be the fill
plug. I don't see a separate drain or fill for the reduction unit
though. Would the clutch and the gears share the same oil?
Message has been deleted
Phan...@nospam.invalid
Oct 23, 2012, 12:10:09 PM10/23/12
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On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 00:39:38 -0400, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>Heh... Apparently the ABS front brakes of my Scarabeo 500 ABS don't
>earn an honorable mention <G>
I guess you'll just have to settle for being one of the "also among
the first" lol! ;-)
"The model will also be among the first scooters to offer ABS/ASR"
As for the BV wet clutch, I understand how a dry centrifugal clutch
works. And I also understand a manual multi plate wet clutch. But a
*centrifugal* multi plate wet clutch is new to me and I'm not able to
find much information on how the *centrifugal* part of it works. Does
it use something like rollers on ramps to squeeze the plates together?
Or something completely different?
I'm pretty sure the photo at the top of the article is of the backside
of a variator and *not* part of the clutch.... although I've been
wrong before. <G>
>Heh... Apparently the ABS front brakes of my Scarabeo 500 ABS don't
>earn an honorable mention <G>
I guess you'll just have to settle for being one of the "also among
the first" lol! ;-)
"The model will also be among the first scooters to offer ABS/ASR"
As for the BV wet clutch, I understand how a dry centrifugal clutch
works. And I also understand a manual multi plate wet clutch. But a
*centrifugal* multi plate wet clutch is new to me and I'm not able to
find much information on how the *centrifugal* part of it works. Does
it use something like rollers on ramps to squeeze the plates together?
Or something completely different?
I'm pretty sure the photo at the top of the article is of the backside
of a variator and *not* part of the clutch.... although I've been
wrong before. <G>
Message has been deleted
Phan...@nospam.invalid
Oct 23, 2012, 5:17:36 PM10/23/12
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On Tue, 23 Oct 2012, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>The thick disc I'm fairly sure is the disc pack.
Aha! I found a parts breakout.
Seems everything gets squeezed between the Anello contenimento dischi
and the Disco portamolle inferiore !! ..... or maybe it's the Disco
portamolle superiore. hmmm.... -scratchin' head- But whichever the
case, we should have known!! LOL!
..... but I still don't see anything centrifugal looking that actually
causes the squeezing :-(
Here. Scroll down a page or two to the "Index" and then click on
"Driven pulley".
http://manuals.wotmeworry.org.uk/Beverley/BV350/BV350%20Parts%20Manual%20%28USA%29.pdf
>The thick disc I'm fairly sure is the disc pack.
Aha! I found a parts breakout.
Seems everything gets squeezed between the Anello contenimento dischi
and the Disco portamolle inferiore !! ..... or maybe it's the Disco
portamolle superiore. hmmm.... -scratchin' head- But whichever the
case, we should have known!! LOL!
..... but I still don't see anything centrifugal looking that actually
causes the squeezing :-(
Here. Scroll down a page or two to the "Index" and then click on
"Driven pulley".
http://manuals.wotmeworry.org.uk/Beverley/BV350/BV350%20Parts%20Manual%20%28USA%29.pdf
Jim Crowther
Oct 23, 2012, 6:56:35 PM10/23/12
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fetching it - I pay for the data transfer!
--
Jim Crowther
Jim Crowther
Oct 23, 2012, 7:46:12 PM10/23/12
to
In alt.scooter, on Tue, 23 Oct 2012 23:56:35, Jim Crowther wrote:
>
>Please download it and save that file locally for reference, not keep
>fetching it - I pay for the data transfer!
>
I'll add (rudely following up to myself) that if you guys had been
>
>Please download it and save that file locally for reference, not keep
>fetching it - I pay for the data transfer!
>
following the threads on Modern Vespa ( http://modernvespa.com )about
the BV350 you'd have had the full skinny on this lovely transmission
about a year ago. Look in particular for posts from 'cheekythomas',
among the earliest.
--
Jim Crowther
Message has been deleted
Phan...@nospam.invalid
Oct 24, 2012, 2:43:16 AM10/24/12
to
On Wed, 24 Oct 2012, Jim Crowther wrote:
>>Please download it and save that file locally for reference, not keep
>>fetching it - I pay for the data transfer!
>I'll add (rudely following up to myself) that if you guys had been
>following the threads on Modern Vespa ( http://modernvespa.com )about
>the BV350 you'd have had the full skinny on this lovely transmission
>about a year ago. Look in particular for posts from 'cheekythomas',
>among the earliest.
That's downright generous of you. Thanks.
>>Please download it and save that file locally for reference, not keep
>>fetching it - I pay for the data transfer!
>I'll add (rudely following up to myself) that if you guys had been
>following the threads on Modern Vespa ( http://modernvespa.com )about
>the BV350 you'd have had the full skinny on this lovely transmission
>about a year ago. Look in particular for posts from 'cheekythomas',
>among the earliest.
I'll go easy on your pocket book.
And I tried searching for the thread you mentioned, on ModernVespa,
using "BV 350" and came up with 1604 matches. Then searched
"cheekythomas" and narrowed it down to 643.
Is there something more in the thread title that might narrow it down
a bit further?
Phan...@nospam.invalid
Oct 24, 2012, 2:50:50 AM10/24/12
to
On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 01:12:40 -0400, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012, Phantman declaimed
the following:
>that is "Disc Containment Ring"
>> and the Disco portamolle inferiore !! ..... or maybe it's the Disco
>> portamolle superiore. hmmm.... -scratchin' head- But whichever the
>> case, we should have known!! LOL!
>Don't know about "portamolle", but I'd guess "disc inner ???" and
>"disc outer ???"
>> ..... but I still don't see anything centrifugal looking that actually
>> causes the squeezing :-(
>Interesting... #22 is the entire clutch assembly, but there is no
>part number for the housing (between 23 and 35 on the expansion). There
>are 6 springs (#35) and 12 "somethings" (#23). I suspect the centrifugal
>part are those small "T" shapes that go through the rim of the housing.
>I suspect they pivot -- at speed the cross bar (the thick part on the
>"left" side) rises outward, and the upright (the skinny part on the
>right side) drops inward, pressing the 12 #23 against the clutch plates.
>In effect, sort of like that centrifugal assist drag racing clutch I
>mentioned -- but with no provision of manual release at high speed.
You made some pretty good guesses...... I guess.
My translation software says:
Anello contenimento dischi = Containment Ring disks
Disco portamolle inferiore = Disk lower spring-holder
Disco portamolle superiore = Disc upper spring-holder
I see the 6 springs and the 12 something's but I didn't quite follow
the rest. I'll just take your word for the centrifugal part.
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012, Phantman declaimed
the following:
>> Aha! I found a parts breakout.
>> Seems everything gets squeezed between the Anello contenimento dischi
>Obviously still being translated to English... I'm going to guess
>> Seems everything gets squeezed between the Anello contenimento dischi
>that is "Disc Containment Ring"
>> and the Disco portamolle inferiore !! ..... or maybe it's the Disco
>> portamolle superiore. hmmm.... -scratchin' head- But whichever the
>> case, we should have known!! LOL!
>"disc outer ???"
>> ..... but I still don't see anything centrifugal looking that actually
>> causes the squeezing :-(
>part number for the housing (between 23 and 35 on the expansion). There
>are 6 springs (#35) and 12 "somethings" (#23). I suspect the centrifugal
>part are those small "T" shapes that go through the rim of the housing.
>I suspect they pivot -- at speed the cross bar (the thick part on the
>"left" side) rises outward, and the upright (the skinny part on the
>right side) drops inward, pressing the 12 #23 against the clutch plates.
>In effect, sort of like that centrifugal assist drag racing clutch I
>mentioned -- but with no provision of manual release at high speed.
You made some pretty good guesses...... I guess.
My translation software says:
Anello contenimento dischi = Containment Ring disks
Disco portamolle inferiore = Disk lower spring-holder
Disco portamolle superiore = Disc upper spring-holder
I see the 6 springs and the 12 something's but I didn't quite follow
the rest. I'll just take your word for the centrifugal part.
Jim Crowther
Oct 24, 2012, 7:22:24 AM10/24/12
to
In alt.scooter, on Wed, 24 Oct 2012 01:43:16, ? wrote:
>Is there something more in the thread title that might narrow it down a
>bit further?
Here are some good pictures:
>Is there something more in the thread title that might narrow it down a
>bit further?
http://modernvespa.com/forum/topic89918?&page=8#1321609
--
Jim Crowther
Phan...@nospam.invalid
Oct 24, 2012, 11:54:50 AM10/24/12
to
On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 12:22:24 +0100, Jim Crowther wrote:
Actually, we've been looking at those same photos on a different Site.
AlexBV200's comments underneath them in the thread were helpful
though.
We've been trying to understand how the clutch works. Or, at least,
that's what I've been interested in. And that's why I downloaded the
.pdf parts breakdown from your Site. The multiplate part of it looks
like most other motorcycle wet clutches except most others are
manually operated. Not centrifugal. And it's the centrifugal part that
I'm trying to understand. I haven't read the whole thread yet but, so
far, I haven't seen an explanation about how the centrifugal part of
the clutch works
I'm still reading though.
Thanks again.
Rick
>In alt.scooter, on Wed, 24 Oct 2012 01:43:16, Phantman wrote:
>>Is there something more in the thread title that might narrow it down a
>>bit further?
>Here are some good pictures:
>http://modernvespa.com/forum/topic89918?&page=8#1321609
K, thanks.
>>Is there something more in the thread title that might narrow it down a
>>bit further?
>Here are some good pictures:
>http://modernvespa.com/forum/topic89918?&page=8#1321609
Actually, we've been looking at those same photos on a different Site.
AlexBV200's comments underneath them in the thread were helpful
though.
We've been trying to understand how the clutch works. Or, at least,
that's what I've been interested in. And that's why I downloaded the
.pdf parts breakdown from your Site. The multiplate part of it looks
like most other motorcycle wet clutches except most others are
manually operated. Not centrifugal. And it's the centrifugal part that
I'm trying to understand. I haven't read the whole thread yet but, so
far, I haven't seen an explanation about how the centrifugal part of
the clutch works
I'm still reading though.
Thanks again.
Rick
Jim Crowther
Oct 24, 2012, 1:11:13 PM10/24/12
to
In alt.scooter, on Wed, 24 Oct 2012 10:54:50, wrote:
> And it's the centrifugal part that I'm trying to understand.
Page 146 of the workshop manual shows the rollers, ramps, and the first
> And it's the centrifugal part that I'm trying to understand.
ring they push against - much the same as a variator. From then on it's
just like a normal cable-operated multi-plate wet clutch.
--
Jim Crowther
Phan...@nospam.invalid
Oct 24, 2012, 2:04:59 PM10/24/12
to
In alt.scooter, on Wed, 24 Oct 2012, Phantman wrote:
>> And it's the centrifugal part that I'm trying to understand.
>> And it's the centrifugal part that I'm trying to understand.
On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 18:11:13 +0100, Jim Crowther wrote:
>Page 146 of the workshop manual shows the rollers, ramps, and the first
>ring they push against - much the same as a variator. From then on it's
>just like a normal cable-operated multi-plate wet clutch.
You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar.
>Page 146 of the workshop manual shows the rollers, ramps, and the first
>ring they push against - much the same as a variator. From then on it's
>just like a normal cable-operated multi-plate wet clutch.
That's *precisely* what I've been wanting to see.
Thank you.
Rick
Phan...@nospam.invalid
Oct 24, 2012, 3:15:11 PM10/24/12
to
On Wed, 24 Oct 2012, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>There
>are 6 springs (#35) and 12 "somethings" (#23).
Turns out those twelve unavailable "somethings" are rollers. So when
>There
>are 6 springs (#35) and 12 "somethings" (#23).
the clutch spins, centrifugal force rolls them up ramps and the clutch
pack gets squeezed. Same principal as variator rollers squeezing a
pulley.
Check out Jim Crowther's message about the Workshop Manual page 146.
bea...@sdf.org
Oct 28, 2012, 12:08:59 PM10/28/12
to
> Turns out those twelve unavailable "somethings" are rollers. So when
> the clutch spins, centrifugal force rolls them up ramps and the clutch
> pack gets squeezed. Same principal as variator rollers squeezing a
> pulley.
> ...
> the clutch spins, centrifugal force rolls them up ramps and the clutch
> pack gets squeezed. Same principal as variator rollers squeezing a
> pulley.
After talking with the mechanic at a local dealer it seems hte new
powertrain isn't so different after all. As mentioned, it just adds a
second variator to reduce belt wear. And the wet clutch has it's own
enclosure and oil, much like a standard gearbox.
Since starting this thread I came across the Sym Citycom 300i which I'm
kind of leaning towards for other reasons, mostly to do with price and
parts availability.
Phan...@nospam.invalid
Oct 29, 2012, 2:05:07 PM10/29/12
to
On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 16:08:59 +0000 (UTC), beaker wrote:
>Since starting this thread I came across the Sym Citycom 300i which I'm
>kind of leaning towards for other reasons, mostly to do with price and
>parts availability.
The price looks better but don't forget to add in the cost of not only
>Since starting this thread I came across the Sym Citycom 300i which I'm
>kind of leaning towards for other reasons, mostly to do with price and
>parts availability.
a top box but also a mounting bracket. The 350 doesn't come with a
top box either but at least it already has a place to mount one.
From the reviews I've seen, I don't think you can go wrong with any of
these three scooters. Looks like just a matter of personal preference
to me.
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