ZUMA: *Not* a restriction spacer
Kevin
restriction washer really *isn't* a restriction spacer unless it
"floats" over the cylinder that the pulleys ride on. Removing the
*washer* will caused the belt to pinch and/or slip without it,
apparently (explains my lag after removing it).
Terry recommends leaving the *washer* in, but removing the *restrictor*.
So my washer is going back in after clarifying that confusion. After it
gets back from the gear swap and two tires, that is.
Just an FYI for you all.
Kevin
'99 Red Yamaha Zuma II
49cc, aka "Turbo Mule"
(San Leandro, CA)
---
http://www.quosig.com/quosig/kevin/zuma/
Photo Taken: 04/00 || Just over 5100 Miles
--
Speed (cruise/top) as of 7/30/00: 42/45mph
Restriction Spacer Removed || Malossi Kelvar drive belt
LeoVinci SP3 exhaust || 6 x 5.0 rollers
Top Performance Fixed Spark, Derestricted CDI
DR Racing +30% Clutch Spring || Del Orto (sp?) 17.5mm Carb. (99 Jet)
Malossi 70cc (Cast Iron) Kit || DR Racing Gears to be installed 8/3/00
---
Sunday, July 30, 2000 || 1:12 PM PDT
ki...@my-deja.com
but removing the *restrictor*." What is the difference between the
washer and the restrictor. I thought the washer was the restrictor. How
come every one seems to gain speed after removing it if it is not a
restrictor????????????
In article <kevin-3CC781....@nuq-read.news.verio.net>,
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
skadar
Kevin <ke...@quosig.com> wrote:
> Turns out that brass "washer" everyone seems to be saying is a
> restriction washer really *isn't* a restriction spacer unless it
> "floats" over the cylinder that the pulleys ride on. Removing the
> *washer* will caused the belt to pinch and/or slip without it,
> apparently (explains my lag after removing it).
>
> Terry recommends leaving the *washer* in, but removing the
*restrictor*.
Wow! This could be a revelation! I removed the washer a few days ago
and just yesterday and today I've had problems with belt slippage!
Your last sentence above is going to cause a LOT of confusion. What
exactly do you mean? We all thought that the washer WAS the
restrictor. If the washer is the washer... then what is
the "restrictor"?
It was clear to me as I was removing it how the washer restricted the
ability of the two variometer plates from fully closing. Removing the
washer allows the two plates to come closer together by exactly the
width of the washer itself. Is this not correct?
Your comments are exciting... please clarify.
Just to be absolutely sure. In my comments above, when I say "washer"
I am referring to the spacer as highlighted in photos 11 and 12 on the
following website:
http://www.virtualmagicusa.com/kamo/zuma_transmission_upgrade/
Later!
Steve
Kevin
> ok, i'm confused. You say "Terry recommends leaving the *washer* in,
> but removing the *restrictor*." What is the difference between the
> washer and the restrictor. I thought the washer was the restrictor. How
> come every one seems to gain speed after removing it if it is not a
> restrictor????????????
I wondered too, and it's been nagging me since I started all this, and
Terry answered both those questions today:
The brass washer I speak of sits in a slight indentation inside the
outer half of the front pulley. It is seated around the toothed
crankshaft *but* has the same diameter hole as the large cylinder the
back pulley half rides on (smooth, steel, about 1" long or so). This
brass bit is a *washer*, and is pinned in place by the 1" long cylinder.
Terry states that if there is a restrictor (which it appears now USA
scooters *do not* have), it is a thicker piece that actually rides
around the same cylinder as the back half does and keeps the belt from
sinking deeper down between the pulleys. It can "float" between pulleys
(unlike the brass washer which is pinned against the outside pulley half
by the steel cylinder).
The reason we all gain speed after removing the washer (and I did,
admittedly), and the reason the kick starter acts funny, is that the
pulley halves can come closer together than they "should." This will
increase speed by allowing the belt to ride higher in the pulley, but
also can cause it to ride *too* high (or dangerously high anyway)
causing unusual wear on the belt. It can also be pinched or slip at the
bottom, causing lag in acceleration at slow speeds, and also unexpected
cause wear from unintended forces on the belt (pinching and twisting).
The kick starter acts wierd because you've moved that hooked-star-washer
bit a tad towards the inside and away from the kickstarter mechanism
which is in a fixed position relative to the transmission cover, and
both need to interlock properly to work right.
I plan to look at the pulleys when I get my scooter back to see the wear
pattern, but if Terry is right, the puleys will be "polished"
dangerously close to the top lip.
Anybody willing to second-guess Terry, I'd like to hear it...but since
most of us lean on his advice, I believe it is prudent to listen.
Now maybe I misunderstood the directions of others, but the diagrams
posted here (by Hilbert? I can't recall) seem to indicate the removal of
the washer just inside the outer pulley, and I am getting the feeling
this is a whole different animal from the "restrictor" spoken about by
our friends in UK and Europe, where they have different graduated steps
of driving licenses based on speed, displacement, and age. Since in many
states a Zuma is still a motorcycle (i.e. "M" class license in
California, for example), maybe the "restrictor" was removed for the USA
market, since we don't have the same complicated licensing laws? Just a
thought.
I'd like to hear input from the Zuma owners in the USA and Canada about
"restrictor versus washer," and feedback from European and UK owners
comparitively.
Kevin
'99 Red Yamaha Zuma II
49cc, aka "Turbo Mule"
(San Leandro, CA)
---
http://www.quosig.com/quosig/kevin/zuma/
Photo Taken: 04/00 || Just over 5100 Miles
--
Speed (cruise/top) as of 7/30/00: 42/45mph
Restriction Spacer Removed || Malossi Kelvar drive belt
LeoVinci SP3 exhaust || 6 x 5.0 rollers
Top Performance Fixed Spark, Derestricted CDI
DR Racing +30% Clutch Spring || Delorito (sp?) 17.5mm Carb. (99 Jet)
Malossi 70cc (Cast Iron) Kit || DR Racing Gears to be installed 8/3/00
---
Sunday, July 30, 2000 || 8:59 PM PDT
Kevin
<tatooin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> In article <kevin-3CC781....@nuq-read.news.verio.net>,
> Kevin <ke...@quosig.com> wrote:
> > Turns out that brass "washer" everyone seems to be saying is a
> > restriction washer really *isn't* a restriction spacer unless it
> > "floats" over the cylinder that the pulleys ride on. Removing the
> > *washer* will caused the belt to pinch and/or slip without it,
> > apparently (explains my lag after removing it).
> >
> > Terry recommends leaving the *washer* in, but removing the
> *restrictor*.
>
> Wow! This could be a revelation! I removed the washer a few days ago
> and just yesterday and today I've had problems with belt slippage!
>
> Your last sentence above is going to cause a LOT of confusion. What
> exactly do you mean? We all thought that the washer WAS the
> restrictor. If the washer is the washer... then what is
> the "restrictor"?
So did I, but according to Terry's description...that is *not* a
restrictor, just a washer, a boring, necessary piece of the transmission.
> It was clear to me as I was removing it how the washer restricted the
> ability of the two variometer plates from fully closing. Removing the
> washer allows the two plates to come closer together by exactly the
> width of the washer itself. Is this not correct?
Yup, it does indeed do that, and I'm discrediting that it does enhance
performance...but is not a "good thing" according to Terry.
*shrug*
Terry's description would describe something like a larger, thicker,
washer-like item that would fit over the cylinder you can see in the
illustration labeled...
"Front variator outside disc removed. Notice the restricting spacer is
still in there."
...at the web site you quote below.
I've asked Terry about this numerous times over the last 12 months, each
time I get a bit more clarity about it. This last time gave the most
explicit instructions, and I quote:
> The restrictor spacer IF fitted goes around the tube that fits over the
> crankshaft. It sounds as if it is not fitted to your machine.
> By moving the thin washer you have changed the diameters the belt will be
> pushed to. but you have also pinched the belt more so belt slip off
> the mark is reduced.
> Your comments are exciting... please clarify.
Actually, it'll probably just confuse us all a bit more. ;-)
> Just to be absolutely sure. In my comments above, when I say "washer"
> I am referring to the spacer as highlighted in photos 11 and 12 on the
> following website:
I wish they were actually numbered!
> http://www.virtualmagicusa.com/kamo/zuma_transmission_upgrade/
I refere to this web site on my references.
Kevin
'99 Red Yamaha Zuma II
49cc, aka "Turbo Mule"
(San Leandro, CA)
---
http://www.quosig.com/quosig/kevin/zuma/
Photo Taken: 04/00 || Just over 5100 Miles
--
Speed (cruise/top) as of 7/30/00: 42/45mph
Restriction Spacer Removed || Malossi Kelvar drive belt
LeoVinci SP3 exhaust || 6 x 5.0 rollers
Top Performance Fixed Spark, Derestricted CDI
DR Racing +30% Clutch Spring || Delorito (sp?) 17.5mm Carb. (99 Jet)
Malossi 70cc (Cast Iron) Kit || DR Racing Gears to be installed 8/3/00
---
Sunday, July 30, 2000 || 10:38 PM PDT
ki...@my-deja.com
after hearing this?
~~sigh~~
cford
that some were not imported into North America without one kind of confirms
that. This is one reason I have not entered into the restrictor debate. Last
point: Terry is the best authority we have so use him.
Kevin wrote:
> Kevin
> '99 Red Yamaha Zuma II
> 49cc, aka "Turbo Mule"
> (San Leandro, CA)
> ---
> http://www.quosig.com/quosig/kevin/zuma/
> Photo Taken: 04/00 || Just over 5100 Miles
> --
> Speed (cruise/top) as of 7/30/00: 42/45mph
> Restriction Spacer Removed || Malossi Kelvar drive belt
> LeoVinci SP3 exhaust || 6 x 5.0 rollers
> Top Performance Fixed Spark, Derestricted CDI
> DR Racing +30% Clutch Spring || Delorito (sp?) 17.5mm Carb. (99 Jet)
> Malossi 70cc (Cast Iron) Kit || DR Racing Gears to be installed 8/3/00
> ---
> Sunday, July 30, 2000 || 8:59 PM PDT
--
From the Beautiful Creston Valley
In the Central Kootenays of
Super Natural British Columbia
COLIN FORD cf...@uniserve.com
skadar
ki...@my-deja.com wrote:
> so....how many of you ZUMA owners are going to put the "washer" BACK
in
> after hearing this?
I might try putting mine back in... only because I'm worried about the
belt slippage that I've been having.
When I give it gas off the mark I can hear the belt slipping on one of
the pulleys. It's not a good sound. The thing is... it seems counter-
intuitive. If the washer is removed, your front variator discs are
closer together, theoretically tightening the belt. So you'd think
that with the washer removed you'd get no slippage at all.
I just don't get it. So I will probably try re-installing the washer
to see what happens with my slippage problem. It's probably worth
doing just to see how it affects my top speed too. I'm curious.
Later,
Steve
ki...@my-deja.com
washer back in. Include lots of details. Thanks.
In article <8m4ebv$77u$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
cford
him change his roller weights. Guess I'm back in the loop!
Colin on the Koot Scoot
cford wrote:
--
Kevin
> so....how many of you ZUMA owners are going to put the "washer" BACK in
> after hearing this?
I know I am, but somehow I doubt others are willing to lose 5 mph. Me,
I'll never miss it since I never really had it. ;-)
Kevin
'99 Red Yamaha Zuma II
49cc, aka "Turbo Mule"
(San Leandro, CA)
---
http://www.quosig.com/quosig/kevin/zuma/
Photo Taken: 04/00 || Just over 5100 Miles
--
Speed (cruise/top) as of 7/31/00: 42/45mph
Restriction Spacer Removed || Malossi Kelvar drive belt
LeoVinci SP3 exhaust || 6 x 5.0 rollers
Top Performance Fixed Spark, Derestricted CDI
DR Racing +30% Clutch Spring || Delorito (sp?) 17.5mm Carb. (99 Jet)
Malossi 70cc (Cast Iron) Kit || DR Racing Gears to be installed 8/3/00
---
Monday, July 31, 2000 || 8:18 PM PDT
Kevin
> I might try putting mine back in... only because I'm worried about the
> belt slippage that I've been having.
>
> When I give it gas off the mark I can hear the belt slipping on one of
> the pulleys. It's not a good sound. The thing is... it seems counter-
> intuitive. If the washer is removed, your front variator discs are
> closer together, theoretically tightening the belt. So you'd think
> that with the washer removed you'd get no slippage at all.
>
> I just don't get it. So I will probably try re-installing the washer
> to see what happens with my slippage problem. It's probably worth
> doing just to see how it affects my top speed too. I'm curious.
Well, after re-reading Terry's e-mail I *may* have interpreted that part
wrong (no washer = slippage)...it's posted here, you can decide for
yourself. :-)
Kevin
'99 Red Yamaha Zuma II
49cc, aka "Turbo Mule"
(San Leandro, CA)
---
http://www.quosig.com/quosig/kevin/zuma/
Photo Taken: 04/00 || Just over 5100 Miles
--
Speed (cruise/top) as of 7/31/00: 42/45mph
Restriction Spacer Removed || Malossi Kelvar drive belt
LeoVinci SP3 exhaust || 6 x 5.0 rollers
Top Performance Fixed Spark, Derestricted CDI
DR Racing +30% Clutch Spring || Delorito (sp?) 17.5mm Carb. (99 Jet)
Malossi 70cc (Cast Iron) Kit || DR Racing Gears to be installed 8/3/00
---
Monday, July 31, 2000 || 8:19 PM PDT
Hilbert
I have put the washer back into my Zuma, lost ~5mph on top speed. other than
that, I feel no difference. I rode my scoot without the washer for ~600
miles, no visible wear on the belt. I still think that's a restricting
spacer. I think I'm going to call (or email) Terry about this.
With the washer removed the belt gets ~3/16" close to the rim of the
variator, which doesn't seem dangerous to me at all. (with the spacer it
gets only 6/16" close).
I might take it out again.
Hilbert.
"cford" <cf...@uniserve.com> wrote in message
news:39864C4E...@uniserve.com...
> > > Kevin
> > > '99 Red Yamaha Zuma II
> > > 49cc, aka "Turbo Mule"
> > > (San Leandro, CA)
> > > ---
> > > http://www.quosig.com/quosig/kevin/zuma/
> > > Photo Taken: 04/00 || Just over 5100 Miles
> > > --
> > > Speed (cruise/top) as of 7/30/00: 42/45mph
> > > Restriction Spacer Removed || Malossi Kelvar drive belt
> > > LeoVinci SP3 exhaust || 6 x 5.0 rollers
> > > Top Performance Fixed Spark, Derestricted CDI
> > > DR Racing +30% Clutch Spring || Delorito (sp?) 17.5mm Carb. (99 Jet)
> > > Malossi 70cc (Cast Iron) Kit || DR Racing Gears to be installed
8/3/00
> > > ---
Kevin
<hil...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I have put the washer back into my Zuma, lost ~5mph on top speed. other
> than
> that, I feel no difference. I rode my scoot without the washer for ~600
> miles, no visible wear on the belt. I still think that's a restricting
> spacer. I think I'm going to call (or email) Terry about this.
>
> With the washer removed the belt gets ~3/16" close to the rim of the
> variator, which doesn't seem dangerous to me at all. (with the spacer it
> gets only 6/16" close).
>
> I might take it out again.
Let us know what you find out, but of course I relayed what Terry told
me. :-)
You know, he really should just follow this NG and answer questions
here...save himself alot of trouble. ;-)
Kevin
'99 Red Yamaha Zuma II
49cc, aka "Turbo Mule"
(San Leandro, CA)
---
http://www.quosig.com/quosig/kevin/zuma/
Photo Taken: 04/00 || Just over 5100 Miles
--
Speed (cruise/top) as of 8/1/00: 42/45mph
Restriction Spacer Removed || Malossi Kelvar drive belt
LeoVinci SP3 exhaust || 6 x 5.0 rollers
Top Performance Fixed Spark, Derestricted CDI
DR Racing +30% Clutch Spring || Delorito (sp?) 17.5mm Carb. (99 Jet)
Malossi 70cc (Cast Iron) Kit || DR Racing Gears to be installed 8/3/00
---
Tuesday, August 1, 2000 || 10:31 PM PDT
skadar
Kevin <ke...@quosig.com> wrote:
> In article <sof68j...@corp.supernews.com>, "Hilbert"
> <hil...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
other
> > than
> > that, I feel no difference. I rode my scoot without the washer for
~600
> > miles, no visible wear on the belt. I still think that's a
restricting
> > spacer. I think I'm going to call (or email) Terry about this.
> >
> > With the washer removed the belt gets ~3/16" close to the rim of the
> > variator, which doesn't seem dangerous to me at all. (with the
spacer it
> > gets only 6/16" close).
> >
> > I might take it out again.
>
told
> me. :-)
>
> You know, he really should just follow this NG and answer questions
> here...save himself alot of trouble. ;-)
Speaking of that, when I received my SP3 from him it included 2 full
pages of handwritten notes about installation! It seems that if he
sends out more than a couple of these a year, it would save him a lot
of trouble to simply photocopy those notes and send out the copies.
Heh.
j o r d a n
writing, those notes might have helped me on the installation.
If it wasn't for this news group, i would be completely lost in everything..
Damn i am glad i read almost every thread.
-jordan
skadar <tatooin...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8m9417$ld0$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <kevin-4F85F2....@nuq-read.news.verio.net>,
> Kevin <ke...@quosig.com> wrote:
> > In article <sof68j...@corp.supernews.com>, "Hilbert"
> > <hil...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I have put the washer back into my Zuma, lost ~5mph on top speed.
> other
> > > than
> > > that, I feel no difference. I rode my scoot without the washer for
> ~600
> > > miles, no visible wear on the belt. I still think that's a
> restricting
> > > spacer. I think I'm going to call (or email) Terry about this.
> > >
> > > With the washer removed the belt gets ~3/16" close to the rim of the
> > > variator, which doesn't seem dangerous to me at all. (with the
> spacer it
> > > gets only 6/16" close).
> > >
> > > I might take it out again.
> >
DVS Graphics
>
> Speaking of that, when I received my SP3 from him it included 2 full
> pages of handwritten notes about installation! It seems that if he
> sends out more than a couple of these a year, it would save him a lot
> of trouble to simply photocopy those notes and send out the copies.
> Heh.
>
> Steve
I like the fact that Terry takes the time to write the notes. Its good
service on a personal level and I think that he really wants us to get it
right. Also, not everyone orders the same combination of parts at the same
time so generic instructions wouldn't work as well for me. I think he cares
for us yanks pretty well.
I wasn't going to order the gears, but reading all of Kevin's posts got my
blood to rushing so I ordered a gear set and another red clutch spring.
Using the Handmade Expansion Chamber without knowing how many rpm's its
turning is making dialing in the transmission difficult. My engine has to be
completely removed from the frame each time I change rollers (and I'm
quadriplegic) so I ordered a digital tachometer to take some of the guess
work out of it....going to dial this little transmission in one way or the
other. Maybe the note I get this time will suggest what roller weight I
should try first :) I hope so.
DB
DVS Graphics
Pic of my Chariot www.bcity.com/dvs/chariot.html Don't laugh too much! Its
not metal, its not plastic, but I think its still a scooter?
Kevin
<tatooin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Speaking of that, when I received my SP3 from him it included 2 full
> pages of handwritten notes about installation! It seems that if he
> sends out more than a couple of these a year, it would save him a lot
> of trouble to simply photocopy those notes and send out the copies.
> Heh.
I thought the same thing. ;-)
Kevin
'99 Red Yamaha Zuma II
49cc, aka "Turbo Mule"
(San Leandro, CA)
---
http://www.quosig.com/quosig/kevin/zuma/
Photo Taken: 04/00 || Just over 5100 Miles
--
Speed (cruise/top) as of 8/2/00: 42/45mph
Restriction Spacer Removed || Malossi Kelvar drive belt
LeoVinci SP3 exhaust || 6 x 5.0 rollers
Top Performance Fixed Spark, Derestricted CDI
DR Racing +30% Clutch Spring || Delorito (sp?) 17.5mm Carb. (99 Jet)
Malossi 70cc (Cast Iron) Kit || DR Racing Gears to be installed 8/3/00
---
Wednesday, August 2, 2000 || 6:51 PM PDT
DVS Graphics
> > so....how many of you ZUMA owners are going to put the "washer" BACK in
> > after hearing this?
>
>
> I know I am, but somehow I doubt others are willing to lose 5 mph. Me,
> I'll never miss it since I never really had it. ;-)
>
>
> Kevin
> '99 Red Yamaha Zuma II
> 49cc, aka "Turbo Mule"
> (San Leandro, CA)
> ---
> http://www.quosig.com/quosig/kevin/zuma/
> Photo Taken: 04/00 || Just over 5100 Miles
> --
> Speed (cruise/top) as of 7/31/00: 42/45mph
> Restriction Spacer Removed || Malossi Kelvar drive belt
> LeoVinci SP3 exhaust || 6 x 5.0 rollers
> Top Performance Fixed Spark, Derestricted CDI
> DR Racing +30% Clutch Spring || Delorito (sp?) 17.5mm Carb. (99 Jet)
> Malossi 70cc (Cast Iron) Kit || DR Racing Gears to be installed 8/3/00
> ---
> Monday, July 31, 2000 || 8:18 PM PDT
My beluga transmission had a restricting spacer and it floated on the
bushing like you guys are talking about ( Like Terry told Kevin ). when I
took it out it did go 5mph faster but after a few miles when everything got
hot, take off from a stop and the clutch seemed bound up or belt
pinched...something just killing the revs up to about 5mph where it would
start to pick up as usual. I bought the MultiVar and Torque Driver pulleys
and they have done wonders for acceleration but I lost the 5mph that
removing the spacer gave me, damit. Any Ideas?
DB ('89 Chariot)