WHERE IS THE REAL GOD?
Bill M
all the others are fakes. The vast majority of people believe in the god or
gods of their
family or area they live in. Does this make the belief true and authentic?
Hardly!
There are thousands of God beliefs and tales. Which, if any, is the real
God? Which are fakes?
What objective evidence is there as to which of the thousand or so God
beliefs is the real God? If there is a real God, why does he not tell us
directly that he is the real God and all the rest are fakes? God, being
omniscient knows precisely what would convince me of his existence. And
being omnipotent, it would cost him nothing to provide that proof, and if he
cares about me he should be motivated to do so.
Why doesn't God permit any of our dead friends or loved ones to tell us,
directly from his heaven, about the real God and reality and grandeur of his
wonderful heaven? Could it be that these are nothing more than the creations
of man's imagination and non of these actually exist? It certainly seems so.
If God exists, why does he need errant and contradictory interpreters such
as priests, preachers, clergymen and shaman to speak for him? If man can
communicate with the whole world via TV, Radio and Telephone, why doesn't
God have his own TV network ( or communicate direct from his heaven ) to
answer our questions or at least demonstrate and confirm that he is the
'real God' and that all the others are fakes?
Why does only a very small fraction of mankind claim to hear God speak and
then from different Gods? Are these claims based on fantasies from mentally
deranged hallucinatory people or from people with selfish motivations? There
is NO OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE that anyone has actually talked with
God or any of the billions of deceased mortals. There are only a relatively
few and unauthenticated 'claims' of these 'contacts'.
Why would an all powerful God permit different scriptures, tomes, texts and
religious beliefs, replete with myths, fables, differences, contradictions
and implausible tales, to fuel the ravings of numerous sects, branches,
churches and rites? If any god exists, why does he not directly tell us what
are his 'real' wishes and commands?
There are many different religions and literally thousands of God beliefs.
There are many major religions such as Judaism, Buddhists, Sikhs, Hindus,
Muslims, Shintoists, Confusions, Christian Scientists, Mormons, Protestants,
Catholics, Evangelicists, Baptists, Lutherans, Methodists, etc. Then there
are also beliefs in the Devil.
Is the devil equal to or more powerful than god? If so, then surely the
devil must be god, and therefore god is responsible for evil. If not, then
god allows the devil to exist and do evil, and therefore god is responsible
for evil. Either way, god causes and is responsible for evil.
There are a plentitude of ancient religious documents that proclaim the
validity of these many Gods.
Major (not all) sacred texts and documents;
Baha'i Sacred writings
Life of Buddha - Dhammapada - Pali cannon
The Bible - Christian religious documents - 18 English versions alone.
Written by 56 claimed authors thousands of years ago. NO ORIGNINALS of the
old or new testaments exist.
The Book of Mormon - Church of Latter Day Saints
The Analects - Confucianism
The Eddas and Sagas - Icelandic beliefs
Wicca - Neo paganism of Greece and Rome over the centuries
Bhagavgita and Rig Veda - Hinduism
Qur'an - Islam
The Tanakh - Jewism
Tao-Te-Ching - Taoism
Nag Hammadi - Gnostics
Zhuan Falun - Falun Gong
And many more less popular religious beliefs.
Of all these different Gods and belief systems which is the true one, if
any, and which are fakes? None of these documents are objective evidence.
They are all documents written, copied, modified and further copied, over
the centuries, by errant men with their own personal selfish motivations.
There is no way to determine their authenticity or accuracy. The objective
evidence is that they are a mixture of history, myth, folklore and legends.
There certainly is no evidence that they are factual.
Christian's favorite evidence for the existence of their God is the old
canard that the Universe could not just happen but had to have a
designer/creator. If it was designed/created by some God, this God has to be
even more complex than the Universe, and using this same logic, would
require that God would also have to have a creator. Who or what created God?
Where is the OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE of a real god creator? Why would
any 'real' god
permit all this doubt and confusion?
Many religious types claim the Intelligent Design of the Universe is proof
of God.
Intelligent design!? Consider reality. The Universe shows no evidence of
"intelligent" design!
Why does this all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent
designer create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Earth
Quakes, Tornados, Floods, Famines, Wars, cancers and hundreds of
debilitating diseases and serious body malfunctions? There are 12,000 known
diseases that affect people of all ages and religious beliefs. Why does he
permit 2,000,000 million children to starve to death every year?
Why does this all powerful and caring god permit totally 'innocent children'
to die at birth? Or worse, be born lacking eyesight, a fully developed
brain, deaf and dumb, missing limbs etc.? Why are some born idiots and
others with super intelligence? Why are some born into wealth and others
pauper poor?
There is a parasitic worm in West Africa that bores through the eye of
innocent children and causes total blindness for the rest of their lives.
This is the work of an
all caring and loving god???
Why are his human creations designed to deteriorate into a miserable and
devastating old age regardless of their religious beliefs?
Why did this all powerful and loving creator create things like sharks,
jelly fish, octopus, lions, tigers, rhinoceros, poisonous snakes, stinging
and poisonous insects, poisonous plants etc.? Why did this caring benevolent
God create animals (including man) that need to kill and eat other animals
to survive?
World War I claimed 9,000,000 lives of people of many religious faiths.
World War II indiscriminately claimed over 20,000,000 lives of people of all
religious faiths, plus a vast destruction of property and more millions
maimed for life.
The recent Asian Tsunami has claimed over 200,000 lives; men, women and
children of all religious persuasions. 100,000 of these were totally
'innocent children'!
There were three major epidemics of the Bubonic Plaque - in the 6th,
14th.and 17th centuries. The death toll was over 137 million men, women and
totally innocent children.
The influenza of 1918-1919 killed at least 25 million men, women and
innocent children indiscriminately.
Diseases like malaria, AIDS, tuberculosis, etc. maim and kill millions
indiscriminately every year. 2,000,000 innocent children die of starvation
every year.
These afflict the young and old, atheists and those of all religious
persuasions.
If he exist, it would appear that this loving and caring God must actually
be a cruel, heartless, mean and torturing tyrant.
If he treats us so cruelly during life, why do you think he will provide us
eternal peace and happiness in his Heaven after death?
If there is a God that created the Universe, he is obviously not an
all-caring and benevolent God. Nor is he an 'Intelligent Designer'. The
objective evidence is that, if there is a god creator, he has no concern
about the welfare of the creatures on Earth.
This is understandable because the Earth is but a speck of dust in the vast
Universe, of trillions of Planets and Stars, that is over 20 BILLION LIGHT
YEARS across. (Light travels at 186.000 miles per SECOND!)
It appears that ALL the Gods are mythical creations of man's imagination
and do not actually exist.
Does anyone have objective verifiable evidence or proof that their God is
real and actually exists? The many ancient and contradictory documents of
these many religions are not objective evidence or proof; they are merely
the unsubstantiated and contradictory opinions, myths, fables and tales of
other mortals. There is no objective evidence that ANY of these documents
are the word of any real God. The God beliefs are about as credible as
belief in the Wizard of Oz
The objective evidence is very substantial that NO GOD CREATED MAN but quite
the opposite; that MAN CREATED GODS!
Pastor Wally
Quote: What objective evidence is there as to which of the thousand or
so God
beliefs is the real God? If there is a real God, why does he not tell
us
directly that he is the real God and all the rest are fakes? God,
being
omniscient knows precisely what would convince me of his existence.
And
being omnipotent, it would cost him nothing to provide that proof, and
if he
cares about me he should be motivated to do so.
There is a real God and He has told us that He is and that there is no
other beside Him.
"Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
'I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.
And who can proclaim as I do?
Then let him declare it and set it in order for Me,
Since I appointed the ancient people.
And the things that are coming and shall come,
Let them show these to them.
Do not fear, nor be afraid;
Have I not told you from that time, and declared it?
You are My witnesses.
Is there a God besides Me?
Indeed there is no other Rock;
I know not one.' "
And the only way that we know that there is only one God is because
this God has revealed Himself, first in Nature, as the Bible says:
"The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament shows His
handiwork.Day unto day utters speech,
And night unto night reveals knowledge.There is no speech nor
language Where their voice is not heard.
But also in Scripture, where He has revealed Himself and shown us to
be, not just the Creator but also the Sustainer.
And the reason that there is so much missery in the world is only
because we have mucked things up, we are the ones causing strife and
wars and bloodshed and all the other things that are happening in the
world today.
I know that you may not believe this but just because you are not able
to comprehend this does not make it any the less than the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
You want proof? Get to know God and you will have all the proof you
need.
Wally.
news.copper.net
agreeing with each other...
and it was written by 44 authors over a period of some 20 centuries...
be critical if you will...but read your history and facts first.
"Bill M" <wm...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:Yudai.272$AN....@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
john p
> There are some 2000 copies of various books of the testiments....all
> agreeing with each other...
> and it was written by 44 authors over a period of some 20 centuries...
> be critical if you will...but read your history and facts first.
>
You didn't answer the question. Where is the real god?
Free Lunch
john p <john....@gmail.com> wrote in
<1181434295.7...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>:
Your question mistakenly assumes that there is a real god.
Malcolm
I am a Unitarian, and an atheist, and I believe in God. I believe in
God that exists as an idea.
I think there are four aims to life which are the same for every human
being in this world. These aims are
1. Instinct
2. Power
3. Wisdom
4. Transformation of the Universe.
God is the ultimate being, and so posseses
1. Instinct which is as far as possible in accord with the universe
2. Ultimate Power (some may say omnipotence)
3. Ultimate Wisdom (perhaps even including omniscience- or knowing
everything possible)
4. Ultimate focus on transforming the universe.
In the teachings of the religions throughout history, reflections of
God have been revealed. At least some part of God is revealed in each
of these reflections.
This is what I think God is.
Thank you
Malcolm
http://4aspectsofgod.blogspot.com/
Padraic Brown
wrote:
>We hear hundreds of claims that some particular entity is the real god and
>all the others are fakes. The vast majority of people believe in the god or
>gods of their
>
>family or area they live in. Does this make the belief true and authentic?
We hear hundreds of claims that there is no God. The vast majority of
these people at one time beleived but were hurt by bad people
(parents, authority figures, priests, etc) and decided to turn their
energies to vicious hatred for religion and God in every form. Does
this make their belief true and authentic?
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Pastor Frank
news:Yudai.272$AN....@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>
> We hear hundreds of claims that some particular entity is the real god and
> all the others are fakes. The vast majority of people believe in the god
> or gods of their
> family or area they live in. Does this make the belief true and authentic?
> Hardly!
> There are thousands of God beliefs and tales. Which, if any, is the real
> God? Which are fakes?
>
clap-trap over and over. Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) become
fully manifested in
Jesus Christ giving His life for us sinners on the cross of Calvary.
That God is love is a matter of belief and faith, for like you said, god
can be a million other things. We believe that love is the key to existence,
that makes all things happen, and without love nothing happens.
If you don't think love is the key to existence, then let's hear your
theory why anything should happen. Just to chant: There ain't no god(s), is
a mindless waste of your life and our time.
Christopher A.Lee
<elem...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 7 Jun 2007 17:12:59 -0400, "Bill M" <wm...@bellsouth.net>
>wrote:
>
>>We hear hundreds of claims that some particular entity is the real god and
>>all the others are fakes. The vast majority of people believe in the god or
>>gods of their
>>
>>family or area they live in. Does this make the belief true and authentic?
>
>We hear hundreds of claims that there is no God.
No, liar, we hear brainwashed morons like you who can't cope with
reality inventing positions people don't have about the object of your
deluded fantasies.
> The vast majority of
>these people at one time beleived but were hurt by bad people
>(parents, authority figures, priests, etc) and decided to turn their
>energies to vicious hatred for religion and God in every form. Does
>this make their belief true and authentic?
It makes you a dishonest, in-your-face liar.
Dubh Ghall
wrote:
>"Bill M" <wm...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>news:Yudai.272$AN....@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>>
>> We hear hundreds of claims that some particular entity is the real god and
>> all the others are fakes. The vast majority of people believe in the god
>> or gods of their
>> family or area they live in. Does this make the belief true and authentic?
>> Hardly!
>> There are thousands of God beliefs and tales. Which, if any, is the real
>> God? Which are fakes?
>>
> I keep telling you Bill,
No you don't, Frank.
All you so is keep copy and pasting the same
clap-trap over and over.
This clap trap, to be precise:-
Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) become
fully manifested in
Jesus Christ giving His life for us sinners on the cross of Calvary.
That God is love is a matter of belief and faith, for like you
said, god
can be a million other things. We believe that love is the key to
existence,
that makes all things happen, and without love nothing happens.
If you don't think love is the key to existence, then let's hear
your
theory why anything should happen. Just to chant: There ain't no
god(s), is
a mindless waste of your life and our time.
And evading the question.
Pastor Frank
news:1181438605.2...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
which one is more relevant.
Pastor Frank
"GOD" THE CHRISTIAN MEANING OF THE WORD ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE:
Jesus in Jn:4:24: "GOD IS A SPIRIT, and they that worship him must
worship him in spirit and in truth."
Jesus in John 14:6-10: Jesus saith unto him: "I am the way, the truth,
and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me,
ye should have known my Father also, and from henceforth YE KNOW HIM AND
HAVE SEEN HIM."
Philip saith unto him: "Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us."
Jesus saith unto him: "Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast
thou not known me, Philip? HE THAT HAS SEEN ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER;
and how sayest thou then: Show us the Father? Believest thou not that I am
in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak unto you I speak
not of myself, but the FATHER THAT DWELLETH IN ME, HE DOETH THE WORKS."
Jesus in Jn:10:30: I and my Father are one.
Jesus in John 12:44-46`Then Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes
in me, believes not in me but in Him who sent me. And he who sees me sees
Him who sent Me. I have come as a light into the world, that whoever
believes in me should not abide in darkness."
Jesus in Lk 17:20-21: And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when
the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said: "The kingdom of
God cometh not with observation. Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo
there! For, behold, the kingdom of GOD IS WITHIN YOU."
1Jn:4:8: He that loveth not, knoweth not God; for GOD IS LOVE.
1Jn:4:16: And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us.
GOD IS LOVE; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
Jesus in Jn:13:34: A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one
another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Jesus in Jn:13:35: By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples,
if ye have love one to another.
Jesus in Jn:15:12-13: This is my commandment: That ye love one another,
as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down
his life for his friends.
Acts:17:28: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain
also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
Proverbs 10:22 God is nearer than our own soul, closer than our most
secret thoughts.
Pastor Frank
news:1181434295.7...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> You didn't answer the question. Where is the real god?
>
existence of your fantasy god, most likely an invisible old man in the sky,
that you don't recognise the "real God" within you. See Jesus below
explaining it all to you.
Pastor Frank
news:7hum63hd60adeogj0...@4ax.com...
paid for every "dishonest, in-your-face liar" he finds, for there isn't a
post of his that doesn't feature one.
Either that, or Christopher is stricly a copy and paste person like
Bill, who is close to a 100 years old and has copied and pasted his 20,000
gods and the question 'which of these is the "real" one', since copy and
paste was invented.
ZenIsWhen
"Pastor Frank" <P...@christfirst.edu> wrote in message
news:466c59f8$0$16382$8826...@free.teranews.com...
That's easy .... the previouis one.
The second one is so meaningless, contradictory, unsupportable and
superficial, it MUST be nothing more than a fairy tale.
At least the first poster preceeded his with an "I believe" - which presents
it as a belief, not fact.
ZenIsWhen
Unfortunately neither have ever been discovered by mankind.
Bill M
"news.copper.net" <will...@copper.net> wrote in message
news:466b0...@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> There are some 2000 copies of various books of the testiments....all
> agreeing with each other...
> and it was written by 44 authors over a period of some 20 centuries...
> be critical if you will...but read your history and facts first.
Christians totally base their faith on the Bibles.
The Bibles are nothing more than books of myths, fables, contradictions,
human and animal sacrifices, genocide, slaveholding, misogyny, destruction,
barbarisms, and impossible tales. They are not accurate history and
certainly are not the words of any god unless he is an insane and totally
untrustworthy monster. They are not even good fiction.
The average person today does not appreciate the difficulty and unlikelihood
of producing accurate transmissions of the original Bibles. Firstly there
are no originals in existence. They are all copies of copies of unknown
accuracy.
One of the problems with the accuracy of the Bibles is that when they were
copied, no marks of punctuation were used, no distinction was made between
lower case and upper case letters and more bizarre to modern script, no
spaces were used to separate words.
This kind of continuous writing was called "scriptuo continua"
'godisnowhere' could mean 'god is now here' or quit the opposite, 'god is no
where' depending on the spacing which not used at the time. This left
accurate interpretation very difficult and unlikely.
Add to this the natural occurrence of errors of transmission and the
intentional modification to suite the transcribers wishes and beliefs and
you have documents of highly questionable meaning and accuracy.
Further compounding the problem was the size and accuracy of the
vocabularies were much more limited than today.
The Bibles are a foundation of quicksand. There are NO ORIGINALS in
existence. Why would not any 'real' God protect the originals??? What are
available are altered copies of copies by unknown men of questionable
veracity. The books of the Bibles were written over 1,000 years before the
invention of the printing press. Even the so called originals were
supposedly written by 50 or more different authors of unknown veracity. They
are biased by, and dependent on the writings and opinions of the clergy. And
the status and survival of the clergy is totally dependent on their follower's
belief in their Bible stories. There are 18 different English versions alone
and there is no way of knowing how far they have wondered from the
originals.
And there is no evidence that even the originals are anything more than
inaccurate fiction.
Basing ones life and faith on these documents is not very sound reasoning.
Bill M
"Padraic Brown" <elem...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:i1hj63ler5tiiejlj...@4ax.com...
You are attempting toinvent facts. You have your facts wrong.
Atheists are atheists because there is NO objective verifiable evidence that
ANY gods actully exist and there is much evidence
that none actually exist.
Robibnikoff
"Malcolm" <malcolm...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1181438605.2...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
I think this is a crock o'hooey.
>
> Thank you
You're welcome.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
Richo
> all the others are fakes.
Really?
I usually hear that some God is true and the others are false.
Which is a different kettle of fish.
I believe all gods are false - even the ones that exist.
>The vast majority of people believe in the god or
> gods of their
> family or area they live in. Does this make the belief true and authentic?
> Hardly!
>
> There are thousands of God beliefs and tales. Which, if any, is the real
> God? Which are fakes?
>
I don't think there are any "Fakes" - people are generally sincere in
their beliefs.
Particular individuals may fake their belief but the number of such
sociopaths is relatively small.
> What objective evidence is there as to which of the thousand or so God
> beliefs is the real God?
Belief is about personal subjective emotional commitment not objective
evidence.
You need to think about peoples emotional needs and satisfy those
needs which are currently satisfied by their religious beliefs if you
want them to abandon their beliefs.
Cheers, Mark.
Pastor Frank
news:1181873621.2...@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 8, 7:12 am, "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>
>> We hear hundreds of claims that some particular entity is the real god
>> and
>> all the others are fakes.
>
> Really?
> I usually hear that some God is true and the others are false.
> Which is a different kettle of fish.
> I believe all gods are false - even the ones that exist.
>
>>The vast majority of people believe in the god or
>> gods of their
>> family or area they live in. Does this make the belief true and
>> authentic?
>> Hardly!
>>
>> There are thousands of God beliefs and tales. Which, if any, is the real
>> God? Which are fakes?
>
> I don't think there are any "Fakes" - people are generally sincere in
> their beliefs.
> Particular individuals may fake their belief but the number of such
> sociopaths is relatively small.
>
>> What objective evidence is there as to which of the thousand or so God
>> beliefs is the real God?
>
> Belief is about personal subjective emotional commitment not objective
> evidence.
>
of God. Those who find no quality worthy of emulation, or living up to,
merely are slaves to their lusts and desires, AKA "reality". Therefore "be
ye as perfect as your Father which is in heaven is perfect" (Jesus in
Matthew. 5:48) is the only worthwhile reason for living.
bob young
Pastor Frank wrote:
Yup....... Frank thinks that anyone who does not follow his particular cult
within Christendom is a 'luster'.
Could it get more banal than that?