Freeview in New Zealand
Damien Service
Prime and they mentioned the British free-to-air Freeview service,
which I think TVNZ may now look at if they can arrange something with
TV3.
Who here thinks it would be successful and worth buying depending on
the packages?
Philip
Hard to know which channels they would offer that aren't already present.
There are a few news channels not currently offered on Sky, and it could
be that the Discovery and lifestyle groups might be prepared to come
aboard in addition to their Sky offerings.
Sport is highly questionable - unless TVNZ or TV3 have rights to it,
it's not going to happen.
It could be that someone would put together a rival to UK24, by
assembling a load of repeat blasts from the past - but they would likely
have to stay away from the ratings pullers on UK24.
Remember that UK Freeview works by multiplexing digital signals on UHF
frequencies. The big appeal in UK was that you didn't have to have a
dish (their planning laws are quite surprisingly restrictive about that)
and you could usually get the signals through the antenna you already
had on the roof. Plus - it offered you another 12-20 channels without
subscribing to anything. You just had to buy a box for around 50 pounds
(about $120). The main networks sprouted attractive extra channels: BBC
1 & 2 were joined by BBC3, BBC4, CBBC, BBC News 24, Parliament Channel
and CBeebies for tots.
ITV has grown up to be ITV1, 2, 3 and 4.
Channel 4 came out qith E4, and now More4.
That won't happen in NZ.
Questions: where are the UHF frequencies going to come from?
Who will make the set-top boxes?
Most important, what sort of programme lineup would readers here
suggest? So far TVNZ has added DW-tv (my former employer) which is fine
but only half in English, and NASA, which is also fine in a geeky sort
of way.
Looking at overseas multichannel packages in English and for a
mainstream audience, maybe we would get:
Court tv
ABC Pacific
Dating channel
Reality channel
Assorted godbotherers
Shopping channels
Golf channel
Weather channel
24 hour local news channel (boy would this be bad!).
Prime has demonstrated that recycled tat from Australia isn't enough to
get an audience by itself.
The fact that TVNZ hasn't been able to get its own freeview off the
ground suggests that the whole things is more difficult than it looks.
And Sky's launch of the My Sky PVR is another hindrance: viewers who can
watch what they like when they like will be less attracted to a
traditional take-it-or-leave it service.
What do others here think?
Philip
Craig Sutton
"Damien Service" <dservice@*NOSPAM*.xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:qo0et1d4tulffeddq...@4ax.com...
TVNZ have always been wanting to do such a service, a lot of talk for the
past 2 years but very little action on it.
As for worth buying well for say $99 it would fly just as cheap DVD player
have
Craig Sutton
"Philip" <philip_...@web.de> wrote in message
news:43d7...@news.orcon.net.nz...
> Looking at overseas multichannel packages in English and for a
> mainstream audience, maybe we would get:
>
> Court tv
> ABC Pacific
> Dating channel
> Reality channel
> Assorted godbotherers
> Shopping channels
> Golf channel
> Weather channel
> 24 hour local news channel (boy would this be bad!).
>
You are miles off in your thinking..!
ABC for starters refuse to even admit that they can be received in NZ!!
NZ Freeview there is no reason why TVNZ can't branch out into their own
niche channels
This was a mockup I made 2! years ago..
1 Tv1
2 Tv2
3 Tv3
4 Tv4 or Freeview Music TV/or MTV
5 TVNZ+ / Parliament
6 Prime
7 Maori TV
8 Trackside / runs something else when Trackside off-air
9 Nasa TV
10 TVNZ Classic
11 TVNZ News 24
12 TVNZ/KIDS/Youth
13 Freeview Sports
14 Freeview Entertainment
15 Triangle
16 FTN
17 Spare/NZ shopping channel
18 Weather TV , simple PC slideshow info
Damien Service
<xcxcn...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>This was a mockup I made 2! years ago..
>
>
>1 Tv1
>2 Tv2
>3 Tv3
>4 Tv4 or Freeview Music TV/or MTV
>5 TVNZ+ / Parliament
>6 Prime
>7 Maori TV
>8 Trackside / runs something else when Trackside off-air
>9 Nasa TV
>10 TVNZ Classic
>11 TVNZ News 24
>12 TVNZ/KIDS/Youth
>13 Freeview Sports
>14 Freeview Entertainment
>15 Triangle
>16 FTN
>17 Spare/NZ shopping channel
>18 Weather TV , simple PC slideshow info
Thats a good mockup and I like the TVNZ Classic idea.
Rather than DVD (which i want to see happen) a channel of the best of
Kiwi would be a kickass idea.
I dont know if u guys were aware of it but before TV4 became C4 it was
going to be a retro channel with overseas programming, of course it
had that with Six Million Dollar Man (now on TV3) and Remmington
Steele.
I can only think of those two but I know there were others.
Philip
> "Philip" <philip_...@web.de> wrote in message
> news:43d7...@news.orcon.net.nz...
>
>> Looking at overseas multichannel packages in English and for a
>> mainstream audience, maybe we would get:
>>
>> Court tv
>> ABC Pacific
>> Dating channel
>> Reality channel
>> Assorted godbotherers
>> Shopping channels
>> Golf channel
>> Weather channel
>> 24 hour local news channel (boy would this be bad!).
>>
>
> You are miles off in your thinking..!
> ABC for starters refuse to even admit that they can be received in NZ!!
I would think that like most of these questions it's about copyrights.
NZ and Oz are separate territories for copyright, and a lot of what ABC
Pacific has is unavailable to them for broadcast here because someone
else either has it or the owners want to sell it to someone else. Bear
in mind that after Australia, NZ is the other big South Pacific market!
There's not a lot to be made selling firt-run programming to Fiji &
Raratonga.
>
> NZ Freeview there is no reason why TVNZ can't branch out into their own
> niche channels.
Apart from money, that is.
>
> This was a mockup I made 2! years ago..
>
>
> 1 Tv1
> 2 Tv2
> 3 Tv3
An interesting issue for all the FTA terrestrials is what they should be
asked to pay for carriage, and whether they should be encrypted or not.
I think there's no case for Sky's objectionable encryption of the
terrestrial channels - and it should have been a condition of their
licence that they carry the lot FTA. But it's not and it won't change
and Sky might be able to mount a challenge to such an intrusion into
their own business. It would certainly make a good fight.
> 4 Tv4 or Freeview Music TV/or MTV
MTV (and VH1) would possibly like to be present in this market, and are
already here for those that can get the Taiwanese version. But they are
not a free-to-air service and may well not wish to change that status.
> 5 TVNZ+ / Parliament
What would run when Parliament wasn't parleying?
> 6 Prime
> 7 Maori TV
> 8 Trackside / runs something else when Trackside off-air
Suggestions of something else?
> 9 Nasa TV
Joyful, geeky and with astonishingly low and uncompressed sound levels
as this is, it would attract an audience of maybe double figures for
most of the day. It certainly won't pay its way in revenue or set-top
box sales.
.
> 10 TVNZ Classic
If they own the rights to any of it/have the tapes of any of it/haven't
wiped great chunks of it. Very often programmes were made where the
artists contracts only allowed for one or two broadcasts.
> 11 TVNZ News 24
TVNZ struggles to put out a 42 minute bulletin between 6 and 7 pm. I do
not believe they have the resources to mount a real rolling news
operation, and I think they would feel that doing so for no extra
revenue would harm their flagship production at 6 pm. I wish I was wrong
about this but after working in broadcast news for more than 40 years,
and as the former licensee of a satellite channel for the EU, I don't
think so.
> 12 TVNZ/KIDS/Youth
What programming have they ready for air? Who will advertise - and how
will it drag an audience away from PSP & XBox?
> 13 Freeview Sports
Which sports are not already signed up to TV deals? It may be that
Southland hurling would love to get coverage,and petanque in Petone may
be hammering at the door. I dunno. I do know that Sky chose not to
exploit its rights in the Dakar rally, but you can't make a channel out
of that! The trouble with niche markets in a country that is itself a
niche market is that the audience for marbles or underwater crochet or
films about railways or whatever can't pay for the coverage. I do wonder
if a "Hobby Channel" could be constructed and programmed for My Sky /
TiVo machines. But minority interests like that are not going to be
attractive to tv bosses unless the minority is big enough across the
whole audience to justify the cost.
> 14 Freeview Entertainment
Umm. Yes, well. Not being too cynical, but what entertainment will this
be that already exists and is cleared for free-to air and will attract
an audience?
> 15 Triangle
Fine, as far as it goes - but it's never a "must have" for the average
viewer.
> 16 FTN
Same as Triangle. Now if you had said ALT tv (I think on UHF59 in
Auckland) , that might get somewhere. And then there's Channel 7, and
Mainland, and CTV. But none of them can afford satellite distribution,
and I have to ask where the money is coming from to present these local
services to the national audience. Southland tv has its own distance
education agenda - but the others?
> 17 Spare/NZ shopping channel
I could see a shopping or auction channel, tho I bet it would be crammed
with Time Life instant CD compilations, magnetic underblankets and
extract of bee pollen. And I think it wouldn't last six months because
it's quicker, cheaper and easier to do it on Radio Live & Pacific.
> 18 Weather TV , simple PC slideshow info
Fine to fill up the screen, but viewers do like real programmes.
I would love to see a rival to Sky, and pressure on them to cut their
charges too. But the first think to understand about tv is that every
image, every sound that you put on belongs to someone else, and the
someone else is going to want paying for it. If you haven't cleared
rights for the programme for the use you plan to make of it, you can't
broadcast it.
Even if you offered a "viewers' channel" showing their video clips and
reports, you still have to clear rights in that material too. Who
actually owns the image that you've been sent? Whose music is playing in
the background? Have they cleared the rights to it? Did they have the
owners' permission to film in that location? Have they got signed
releases for all those people we see on the screen? It all takes time &
costs money. Deeply boring and off-putting, but this is where tv is at.
And all the time you have to ask: who is the audience for this? Who will
but a set-top box and spend time looking at pictures from it, how many
of them are there, what is that audience worth to my sponsors? Of the
current channels on TVNZ freeview I would guess that the average
audience for TV1 and TV2 is around 5 000, being people that bought the
box to get halfway decent reception. For TV Wide about 100, for DWtv
around 200 in German and maybe 1500 in English, and for Nasa between 10
and 70. If the programmes were promoted, advertised, scheduled and put
into the My Sky EPG, that might be different - but even if the audience
was ten times bigger, it wouldn't go anywhere near meeting the cost of
putting it out.
And you need a drawcard channel - something that Joe and Josephine Six
Pack are going to want so much that they'll go out & buy the STB plus
the satellite dish they'll need for it.
What can you suggest that would really drag the punters in?
Philip
Craig Sutton
> > NZ Freeview there is no reason why TVNZ can't branch out into their own
> > niche channels.
>
>
> Apart from money, that is.
> >
Of course TVNZ don't make any proffits right ;-)
Please note the list I made was over 2 YEARS ago as a mockup for the
satellite platform. I wouldn't use the same line-up now.
> An interesting issue for all the FTA terrestrials is what they should be
> asked to pay for carriage, and whether they should be encrypted or not.
> I think there's no case for Sky's objectionable encryption of the
> terrestrial channels - and it should have been a condition of their
> licence that they carry the lot FTA. But it's not and it won't change
> and Sky might be able to mount a challenge to such an intrusion into
> their own business. It would certainly make a good fight.
>
We need to wait and see what the Commerce Commission decide re:
sky/prime/tvnz
> > 4 Tv4 or Freeview Music TV/or MTV
> MTV (and VH1) would possibly like to be present in this market, and are
> already here for those that can get the Taiwanese version. But they are
> not a free-to-air service and may well not wish to change that status.
>
ah but TVNZ tried MTV Europe on their spare uhf freqs ages ago. It bombed
but I think that was more to do with lack of coverage than anything. I think
C4 has proved itself now filling a niche and worthy of a place and they have
some of the MTV content anyway
> > 5 TVNZ+ / Parliament
> What would run when Parliament wasn't parleying?
Replays ;-) maybe some documentry or history stuff?
> > 6 Prime
> > 7 Maori TV
> > 8 Trackside / runs something else when Trackside off-air
> Suggestions of something else?
A no brainer..$ for the Govt from the TAB and the platform needs to generate
income.
> > 9 Nasa TV
> Joyful, geeky and with astonishingly low and uncompressed sound levels
> as this is, it would attract an audience of maybe double figures for
> most of the day. It certainly won't pay its way in revenue or set-top
> box sales.
> .
Yes it would get the boot some of the content could probably fit elsewhere.
> > 10 TVNZ Classic
>
> If they own the rights to any of it/have the tapes of any of it/haven't
> wiped great chunks of it. Very often programmes were made where the
> artists contracts only allowed for one or two broadcasts.
>
Yeah tricky
> > 11 TVNZ News 24
> TVNZ struggles to put out a 42 minute bulletin between 6 and 7 pm. I do
> not believe they have the resources to mount a real rolling news
> operation, and I think they would feel that doing so for no extra
> revenue would harm their flagship production at 6 pm. I wish I was wrong
> about this but after working in broadcast news for more than 40 years,
> and as the former licensee of a satellite channel for the EU, I don't
> think so.
>
Tvnz have wanted to do their own news channel for years. I don't see them
doing a 24 hour live news setup. But they must have access to vast news
resources of other networks.
> > 12 TVNZ/KIDS/Youth
> What programming have they ready for air? Who will advertise - and how
> will it drag an audience away from PSP & XBox?
>
the usual advertisers, fast food companies and toys
> > 13 Freeview Sports
>
> Which sports are not already signed up to TV deals? It may be that
> Southland hurling would love to get coverage,and petanque in Petone may
> be hammering at the door. I dunno. I do know that Sky chose not to
> exploit its rights in the Dakar rally, but you can't make a channel out
> of that!
Regional sports..replays of some older events, throw in some live or EXTRA
coverage from events such as commonwealth games.
> > 14 Freeview Entertainment
> Umm. Yes, well. Not being too cynical, but what entertainment will this
> be that already exists and is cleared for free-to air and will attract
> an audience?
How about a movies channel?
> > 15 Triangle
> Fine, as far as it goes - but it's never a "must have" for the average
> viewer.
True
> > 16 FTN
> Same as Triangle. Now if you had said ALT tv (I think on UHF59 in
> Auckland) , that might get somewhere. And then there's Channel 7, and
> Mainland, and CTV. But none of them can afford satellite distribution,
> and I have to ask where the money is coming from to present these local
> services to the national audience. Southland tv has its own distance
> education agenda - but the others?
>
Alt TV wasn't around when the list was made..don't get me started on
mainland tv they fail the copyright situation for starters!(i will say no
more on that one!)
> > 17 Spare/NZ shopping channel
> I could see a shopping or auction channel, tho I bet it would be crammed
> with Time Life instant CD compilations, magnetic underblankets and
> extract of bee pollen. And I think it wouldn't last six months because
> it's quicker, cheaper and easier to do it on Radio Live & Pacific.
>
Think bigger.."The warehouse tv" or "Trademe tv" etc give away some free
crap every 30 mins
> > 18 Weather TV , simple PC slideshow info
>
> Fine to fill up the screen, but viewers do like real programmes.
>
Well the lineup was based on a practical channel -lineup for the possible
TVNZ satellite freeview service. A weather slideshow would use very little
bandwidth. That was the reason for it.
> Even if you offered a "viewers' channel" showing their video clips and
> reports, you still have to clear rights in that material too. Who
> actually owns the image that you've been sent? Whose music is playing in
> the background? Have they cleared the rights to it? Did they have the
> owners' permission to film in that location? Have they got signed
> releases for all those people we see on the screen? It all takes time &
> costs money. Deeply boring and off-putting, but this is where tv is at.
>
Hmm Public Access tv? Waynes World anyone?
> And all the time you have to ask: who is the audience for this? Who will
> but a set-top box and spend time looking at pictures from it, how many
> of them are there, what is that audience worth to my sponsors? Of the
> current channels on TVNZ freeview I would guess that the average
> audience for TV1 and TV2 is around 5 000, being people that bought the
> box to get halfway decent reception. For TV Wide about 100, for DWtv
> around 200 in German and maybe 1500 in English, and for Nasa between 10
> and 70. If the programmes were promoted, advertised, scheduled and put
> into the My Sky EPG, that might be different - but even if the audience
> was ten times bigger, it wouldn't go anywhere near meeting the cost of
> putting it out.
>
The other tvnz channels are nothing more than tests it has never been
promoted in any format
> And you need a drawcard channel - something that Joe and Josephine Six
> Pack are going to want so much that they'll go out & buy the STB plus
> the satellite dish they'll need for it.
>
Or plug into an existing UHF terrestrial aeriel
> What can you suggest that would really drag the punters in?
>
Look at what u.k freeview has... nothing major but it works it sells itself.
The channel providers are fighting to get on spare capacity when made
available.
Steven Ellis
I have to agree that $99 is the price point and then units will move.
I've been using a UK DVB-T tuner to get crystal clear (in comparison)
TV1 & 2 since the new year and it is worth it to remove the ghosting
and static.
The number of people I know who have bought sky simply because their
normal terrestial signal is shoddy is scary.
Plus with just 2-3 UHF frequencies we can get all the current channels
plus some extras. That would give us 10-15 digital channels which most
people would be happy to pay NZ$100 for.
What i'd like to see
TV1
TV2
TV3
C4
Prime
Triange
JuiceTV
DW
NASA TV
Sky News (Its on Freeview in the UK)
TVNZ News 24
BBC World
BBC Prime
Now if you make sure the standard NZ box has a CAM then I can see
additional programming appearing, for example SKY could move its UHF
programs over to the system which would free up additional UHF
frequencies. We might also see other players move into the market.
10-15 free stations, plus an additional 10-15 optional subscriber
services anyone?
Steve
grolschie
"Damien Service" <dservice@*NOSPAM*.xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:qo0et1d4tulffeddq...@4ax.com...
I've been reading this thread (and others like it over the last year)
and seen the mock-up lists. This is all silliness right? As if TVNZ are
going to read these lists and go "yeah ok". It's more like "if I was
TVNZ, this is what I'd do" which means diddly, right?
Philip
the people posting in here (Craig Sutton) is extremely well informed
about these matters, was writing about it when most people didn't
imagine it could ever happen in NZ, and has for some years run one of
the more authoritative web sites on satellite broadcasting at
www.apsattv.com.
I doubt anyone from TVNZ reads this newsgroup - I bet there are people
at all the networks that read Craig's pages.
if you want to speculate about content, look at the full Foxtel list in
Oz, try to figure how attractive any of it would be to the NZ audience
and then look for gotchas like the fact that a lot of the Hallmark stuff
is already contracted to other NZ channels.
Then start thinking about audiences.
I think there is room for a Freeview in NZ - but it would have to be run
by a joint consortium of TNVZ, TV3 & Prime / Sky, or it won't get off
the ground, because these companies control pretty well all the content
that people want to see and a lot of the programming would have to come
from their back catalogues and unused rights.
If it's done from satellite, rather than DVB over UHF, viewers will need
a dish and and box. No way can you do that, plus fitting, for $99. Plus
you exclude most people living in apartments because the building owners
won't allow a dish outside the window - even if you could open the window.
if it's done from the UHF transmitters, there's the sad example of Maori
tv which was dropped onto the Sky CNN UHF frequency, even though other
frequencies were set aside for it, because Sky was afraid that using
those frequencies set aside for the Maori Channel would interfere with
their standard channel setting for sending the RF signal from their STBs
to the antenna input on the tv, and they'd have to send out engineers to
retune a whole swatch of Sky boxes. Those Maori Channel frequencies are
now frozen and unusable for another eight years, & I have no idea how
you unscramble that mess without paying Sky a big bundle of dosh.
All of this is about problems rather than performance. All these issues
can be resolved, it can be done, if there are people at the networks and
BCL that want it to happen, and people with imagination, vision and
willingness to make a go of it. I wish...
Philip
yearssate
Craig Sutton
"Steven Ellis" <steven...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1138231969.9...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> What i'd like to see
>
> TV1
> TV2
> TV3
> C4
> Prime
> Triange
> JuiceTV
> DW
> NASA TV
> Sky News (Its on Freeview in the UK)
> TVNZ News 24
> BBC World
> BBC Prime
>
I say NO to Dwelle, the best content from it could be on the possible
NZ24news channel. Nasa won't stand on its own quality wise either.
As for Sky News that's a Murdoch channel ...BBC World runs fta overnight on
TV1 anyway and I think can't go 24 hours via another platform due to
contract with Sky.
As for BBC Prime, british content is very popular in NZ. Such content would
maybe be on a new entertainment channel customized for NZ. Or maybe TVNZ
could revive UKGold with a customized NZ version.
Steven Ellis
Ok probably no DW or Nasa, but I can't see a Freeview like service
happening without some input from Sky. They have some involvement in
the UK resulting in Sky News, Sky Travel and Sky 3 available on
Freeview.
I think some one has been talking to the equipment suppliers judging by
the news page at
http://www.topfield-newzealand.co.nz/news.htm
Steve
Damien Service
wrote:
>10-15 free stations, plus an additional 10-15 optional subscriber
>services anyone?
All lesbian porn channel 24/7 with none of the same shit showing 4
times a day like SKY does with Playboy and Spice Channels.
grolschie
"Damien Service" <dservice@*nospam*.xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:07cht1p5d24m42300...@4ax.com...
>... and Spice Channels.
MMMmmmm.... spice channels!!!! Nothing like some good Indian curry
recipes. ;-)
ShuckItAnShee
"grolschie" <grol...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote in message
news:ulaCf.22888$vH5.9...@news.xtra.co.nz...
Which reminds me.... how is the Asian TV outlet in Auckland doing these
days. Sorry, can't remember its name.