Do you use MapFactor Navigator for GPS routing on a non-data-enabled Android smartphone (with GPS)?

[Danny D.]

I have a use-model question about "MapFactor Navigator" version 1.0.35
on Samsung Galaxy SIII Android 4.1.2 where I can't figure out HOW the
use model can possibly work.

Since it must be either me (being a dimwit), or, the use model is impossible
to figure out for MapFactor (which would mean it is unusable) ... I must ask:

QUESTION: How do you set the start and stop point from your "My Places"?

Here's how to reproduce:
1. I have no data plan, but I have WiFi so, I can save places while on the net.
2. I add, using the wifi, "Favourites" to "My Places", let's call them 'favorite1'
and 'favorite2' which are intended to be my start and end points.
3. Then I travel, where there is no wifi (or just turn off the WiFi).
4. I press "Navigate" where all I want is to route from "favorite1" to "favorite2".
But, HOW do you tell the software to navigate from favorite1 to favorite2?
5. NONE of the available options (address & name, imports, map center, gps position)
allow using "favorite1" as the destination.

Can a navigation program be *that* useless?
I find that hard to believe - so - it must be something *I* am doing wrong.
But what?

QUESTION: How do you set the start point as "favorite1" from "My Places",
and how do you set the stop point as "favorite2" from "My Places" in
MapFactor Navigator 1.0.35 on Android?

This should be trivial...

[Danny D.]

On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 20:11:00 +0000, Danny D. wrote:

> Since it must be either me (being a dimwit), or, the use model is impossible
> to figure out for MapFactor (which would mean it is unusable) ... I must ask:
> QUESTION: How do you set the start and stop point from your "My Places"?

If it turns out that this Mapfactor Navigator free application
can't route from point A to point B without a data plan, can
someone suggest a viable freeware Android application for a
GPS-enabled Samsung Galaxy SIII that *can* route from a pre-defined
location1 to a pre-defined location2 without having to have a data
plan?

It seems to me, all the phone needs is:
a) A map (e.g., OSM free data maps should work, right?)
b) GPS signals (which the Samsung Galaxy SIII has, right?)
c) Software that *can* route from point a to point b on the OSM map
given those GPS signals.

Does GPS routing capability exist in Android freeware?

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Danny D.:
> data plan

??
--
Pete Cresswell

[Danny D'Amico]

On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 15:48:08 -0500, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
>> no data plan
> ??

I guess I should clarify, given that response.

I've been using portable GPS for years, and they don't even have the concept
of a 'data plan'. All they have are these three things:
a) A map
b) GPS
c) Software that can route from point a to point b on the map

So, now I have a Samsung Galaxy SIII, which has:
a) A map (they can be downloaded from a variety of sources)
b) GPS
c) Software that can route from point a to point b is what I'm looking for

None of that should need a data plan (once the map & software is downloaded).
Right?

[Greg Troxel]

Danny D'Amico <dan...@is.invalid> writes:

> So, now I have a Samsung Galaxy SIII, which has:
> a) A map (they can be downloaded from a variety of sources)
> b) GPS
> c) Software that can route from point a to point b is what I'm looking for
>
> None of that should need a data plan (once the map & software is downloaded).
> Right?

Check out 'osmand'.

[Moe DeLoughan]

On 11/14/2013 2:11 PM, Danny D. wrote:
> I have a use-model question about "MapFactor Navigator" version 1.0.35
> on Samsung Galaxy SIII Android 4.1.2 where I can't figure out HOW the
> use model can possibly work.

Here's the manual:
http://static.mapfactor.com/files/Navigator_android_eng.pdf

From page 25:

Using favourites you can quickly access locations and set as
navigation destinations.

Tap on a favourite and you will be taken to the following screen. To
expand a group tap on it.

Now tap Navigate and your journey will be calculated.

You have also the following options:

Set as departure - Set the start of your journey (only necessary if
you want to calculate a route without GPS)

Set as waypoint - Add it as a stop along your journey

Set as destination - Set the destination point without starting
navigation immediately

Add to favourites - Add your selection to your favourites

Show on Map - Show the result on the map

Favourite Journeys are set in Main Menu/My routes

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Danny D'Amico:

But the question remains: what is a "Data Plan"?

--
Pete Cresswell

[Marius Gavrilescu]

"(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid> writes:

> But the question remains: what is a "Data Plan"?

A data plan is a service you can buy from a telco. You pay them some
money and they let you connect to the internet from your mobile
phone/tablet/other device that accepts SIM cards.

It is also known as 'mobile internet', 'mobile data' or 'mobile web'.
--
Marius Gavrilescu

[Danny D'Amico]

On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 16:33:43 -0500, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

> But the question remains: what is a "Data Plan"?

Oh. I apologize for the confusion. There is no such thing as
a "data plan". I was just making that clear.

What I want to do is use my device as a portable GPS navigation
system. Just like any Garmin or TomTom, etc.

More specifically, the "device" an Android Samsung Galaxy SIII,
which is what I'm trying to set up as a poor-man's portable GPS
navigation system.

The best, technically, I can come up with at the moment is to install
the freeware "My Tracks" application, which is a GPS breadcrumbing
application, that comes with a map of the USA pre loaded and which
talks to the GPS transceiver to locate my current (and past) GPS
coordinates on the underlying map.

Now, my "device" acts just like any portable GPS navigation device does,
in that it shows where I am on the map, and it shows where I've been.

The only thing it doesn't do is *route* from point a to point b.

So, to turn the device into a full-fledged poor-man's portable GPS
navigation device, all I need now is software that can route from
the current position, to a desired position.

All using the same GPS technology that has been in portable GPS navigation
systems since they were invented.

In summary:
Q: Is there a free Android application that routes from one point to
another using an underlying pre-installed map?

[Danny D'Amico]

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 00:12:33 +0200, Marius Gavrilescu wrote:

> A data plan is a service you can buy from a telco. You pay them some
> money and they let you connect to the internet from your mobile
> phone/tablet/other device that accepts SIM cards.
>
> It is also known as 'mobile internet', 'mobile data' or 'mobile web'.

Actually, the entire "data plan" question is moot, since it doesn't
exist in my case. I was just asking a more complete question, so, I
noted that there is no data service.

But, the entire reason the gps guys were included is *exactly* for
that reason. They've been navigating by GPS since day 1 *without* any
data service.

I just want to do the same thing; so I figured the android and GPS guys
would know how.

Do they?

[mike]

A data plan is something that costs money...a lot of money for
mapping options.
You pay the carrier for a monthly subscription so you can use online
trip routing applications.

Getting from here to there is FREE after you have a
$60/month phone/tablet service.
Getting from there to there costs $60/month if you don't.

My search for ANYTHING affordable that runs on a phone/pda has been
fruitless.

There was a program called mapopolis back in 2006 or so. Did a very
good job of calculating/tracking routes on a windows mobile or palm PDA.
Their business model was a failure. Gave away the program and charged
you $15 per county for maps. And you could download and sample any
or all maps for 15 days for free.
Crackers had a field day with that.

They couldn't make any money at it. Roads change too slowly to
drive frequent paid updates. I'm still using the 2006 maps.
They retreated to commercial apps like truck routing.

After their retreat, I never found ANYTHING for any OS that ran
locally on a handheld computer.

And I think we never will.

Maintaining a worldwide road database is a HUGE/EXPENSIVE task.
And we won't pay what it costs.
Virtually all the potential customers already pay that $60/month
for their cellphone/tablet.
They can access a cloud service for an incremental cost of zero.

I do my navigation on a standalone gps device or using mapopolis
on a windows PDA. I have to carry an extra device when I need it,
but I buy 'em at garage sales and can get a bucketfull of 'em for $60.

If you're trying to build a product around android and gps that
runs locally, I expect you're outa luck.

If you do find one, I'd like to hear about it.

[John S]

On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 20:15:28 +0000 (UTC), Danny D. wrote:

> On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 20:11:00 +0000, Danny D. wrote:
>
>> Since it must be either me (being a dimwit), or, the use model is impossible
>> to figure out for MapFactor (which would mean it is unusable) ... I must ask:
>> QUESTION: How do you set the start and stop point from your "My Places"?
>
> If it turns out that this Mapfactor Navigator free application
> can't route from point A to point B without a data plan, can
> someone suggest a viable freeware Android application for a
> GPS-enabled Samsung Galaxy SIII that *can* route from a pre-defined
> location1 to a pre-defined location2 without having to have a data
> plan?

This is contrary to my experience.

I obtained the "Mapfactor Navigator Free" for my wife's Nexus 7" android
tablet from the Google app store and installed it.

On opening, you are given the option to download maps from
openstreetmap.org, which I did for New Zealand.

My wife's tablet does not have the ability to connect to a mobile network,
but can access the internet via wifi when I'm at home.

On the road, it navigates perfectly well, from the gps signal, using the
downloaded maps.

So maybe someone gave you the wrong information, or you tried to use the
wrong option, or the version you are referring to is different from the one
I have. Maybe worth taking another look at it, as I find the application
very useful.

Cheers,

John S

[Marius Gavrilescu]

mike <ham...@netzero.net> writes:

> If you're trying to build a product around android and gps that
> runs locally, I expect you're outa luck.
>
> If you do find one, I'd like to hear about it.

Well, there is a least one such product. It's called Osmand [0].

It lets you download maps by country (the maps are updated about once
every 10 days), but it can also use online maps. It has offline routing
capabilities, but it can also use online routing services such as YOURS
or OpenRouteService.

And it's free and open source.

[0]: https://f-droid.org/repository/browse/?fdfilter=osm&fdid=net.osmand.plus
--
Marius Gavrilescu

[Marius Gavrilescu]

Danny D'Amico <dan...@is.invalid> writes:

> In summary:
> Q: Is there a free Android application that routes from one point to
> another using an underlying pre-installed map?

Yes. It's called Osmand [0].

First you download maps country-by-country (or state-by-state for the US,
or region-by-region for the UK, Italy, Germany, France).
Then you can browse the map, see your location, get a route from point A
to point B and follow that route with voice directions.

It has a built-in plugin (you just have to enable it in the settings)
for recording tracks.

[~BD~]

mike, you are the only one I 'know' here in this thread so I'd like you
to answer a query for me if you'll be so kind!

Do you think *THIS* would work for the OP?
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.apps.maps&hl=en

I watched a long video from Google yesterday and understand that one may
now download a specified area map whilst 'on-line' - and then *save it*
for use if/when Wi-Fi and/or a 3G/4G connection is not unavailable!

Have a great day! :-)

-

[mike]

Yep, that's a possibility.
Google maps has been available on many devices.
Question is whether the downloaded map is "live" or not.
Back in the day, Streets and Trips said they could download the map.
And you could, but it was a fixed rendering of the map from your main PC.
Great as a map, but couldn't do anything interesting like reroute.

I don't know how easy it is to download a chunk of a map.
Minimum chunk for mapopolis was a county. Mine is 1.5MB.
Minimum chunk for navigator free seems to be the state.
Mine's 29MB. California is 135MB.
You'd think it would take a lot of work to download an
arbitrary square
mile of map database and keep it live. 135MB would use up
your wireless data allotment pretty quickly.

I installed the mapfactor navigator free recommended earlier on my Axim X51.
It's very much like mapopolis. Looks very good. Haven't made the
voice work yet, but I thought I'd better not go wandering
the streets until dawn. Be just my luck to get arrested. ;-)

My Android tablet is a no-name knock-off that can't access google-play.
And it android 1.6 anyway, so won't run much. And doesn't have gps or
bluetooth. So, I can't experiment with the android version.

Good to learn about navigator. Last I checked I couldn't find anything
free with a competent database.
If they can just port the android version to linux, that would
knock one more thing off my linux inhibition list.
No, wine is not porting to linux.

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Marius Gavrilescu:

Geeze, I feel stupid. Being too cheap to use anything but free WiFi, I
was fixated on the database aspect of GPS applications thinking it was
something really, really technical around the compilation of source
code....

Right now, I'm using Sygic. It's about forty bucks - less if you only
get USA maps. A complete download of maps for the USA, Canada, and
Mexico takes 4 gigs. USA maps can be downloaded state-by-state, so the
space requirement for somebody who only wants a few states would be much
less.

No data connection required once you get the maps downloaded and it's
browse-friendly. i.e. it isn't always bugging you for a destination -
you can just scroll around the map. You can also choose destinations
by several different means - favorites, exact addresses, incomplete
addresses, GPS coordinates and so-forth.

I also tried CoPilot for about nine dollars. Same deal: download the
maps and you're good to go. For the price it was a no-brainer, but I
found the directions unreliable and browsing it's maps was significantly
less convenient than Sygic. CoPilot was oriented towards soliciting a
destination address (and it had to be a complete address) and plotting
the route.

Sygic's directions, OTOH, seem comparable to the dedicated Garmin device
I used to have. It's only been a few weeks and I don't drive that
much... but Sygic uses Tom-Tom's maps and the company seems to cater to
users in the transportation industry. It's spoken directions are also
vastly superior to CoPilot's and, again, comparable to Garmin's.

Google Maps has a caching feature where you draw a rectangle around the
area you want cached and it downloads the tiles - and multiple
rectangles can be drawn. My experience, however, was that when I
really needed a particular map, it wouldn't be there.

IIRC, Osmand has something in that line too - but I'd apply the same
caution: when you really need a cached map, will it actually be there?
--
Pete Cresswell

[Danny D'Amico]

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 08:27:59 +0200, Marius Gavrilescu wrote:

> Yes. It's called Osmand.

Thanks for the pointer. There seem to be over 250 apps that
use the free Open Street Map data! This is great advice!

Searching on the phone (with WiFi) for "Osmand" found these:
- ($0) OsmAnd Maps & Navigation (v1.6.5 beta, 21.72MB, 11/6/2013)
- ($0) OsmAnd-Parking plugin
- ($0) OsmAnd-Ski
- ($0) OsmAnd Voice Import
- ($2) OsmAnd Contour lines plugin
- ($7) OsmAnd+ Maps & Navigation(v1.6.5 beta, 21.72MB, 11/5/2013)
etc.

The freeware description is:
OsmAnd (OSM Automated Navigation Directions) is a map and navigation
application with access to the free, worldwide, and high-quality
OpenStreetMap (OSM) data. All map data can be stored on your device's
memory card for offline use. Via your device's GPS, OsmAnd offers
routing, with optical and voice guidance, for car, bike, and pedestrian.
All the main functionalities work both online and offline (no Internet
needed).

The paid description adds:
OsmAnd+ is the paid application version. By buying it you support the
project, fund the development of new features, and receive the latest
updates.

[Danny D'Amico]

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 15:30:43 +0000, Danny D'Amico wrote:

> Searching on the phone (with WiFi) for "Osmand" found these:
> - ($0) OsmAnd Maps & Navigation (v1.6.5 beta, 21.72MB, 11/6/2013)

More description once downloaded ...
"This free OsmAnd version is limited to 10 downloads and
does not support offline Wikipedia articles."

I'm not sure what a Wikipedia article does for me, but, the 10
maps does not seem to be too limiting since a US state seems to
be a single download.

[~BD~]

Thanks for commenting.

I cannot test it personally as I don't have ANY Android devices (I
converted to being an Apple fanboi about 4.5 years ago! - but I still
can't justify buying an iPhone!)

<aside> If you have time to spare, a fellow like you might like to
explore/play here: https://www.biodigitalhuman.com/home/

I've only just found it myself!

-

[~BD~]

Did you read my post to 'mike', Danny?

-

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 16:12:45 +0000, ~BD~ wrote:

> Did you read my post to 'mike', Danny?

I downloaded OsmAnd (but the maps are problematic, and
I still haven't been able to download one yet).

Reading your post to Mike, I see you wrote:
> Do you think *THIS* would work for the OP?
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.apps.maps&hl=en
> I watched a long video from Google yesterday and understand that
> one may now download a specified area map whilst 'on-line' - and
> then *save it* for use if/when Wi-Fi and/or a 3G/4G connection is
> not unavailable!

That's *exactly* what I want to do:
1. Install the correct program (while on wifi)
2. Download a regional map (while on wifi)
3. Then, turn off wifi (or go hiking or driving)

And then, to turn on GPS to:
a) Locate my current position on the map
b) Breadcrumb my prior path on the map

And, then use the map routing software to:
c) Route from the current position to a future position

All without needing to connect to the Internet again.

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 16:12:45 +0000, ~BD~ wrote:

> Did you read my post to 'mike', Danny?

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 05:02:03 -0800, mike wrote:

> Google maps has been available on many devices.
> Question is whether the downloaded map is "live" or not.
> Back in the day, Streets and Trips said they could download the map.
> And you could, but it was a fixed rendering of the map from your main PC.
> Great as a map, but couldn't do anything interesting like reroute.

The maps that come with the Android application "My Tracks" suffer
from the same problem.

The application has a beautiful street, satellite, and contour map
of the USA, and it shows where you are, and where you've been; but,
the map is just a pretty picture. It doesn't have the concept of a
route.

That's why I'm looking for a freeware Android application that has
all that, but, also has the concept of a route.

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 16:12:45 +0000, ~BD~ wrote:

> Did you read my post to 'mike', Danny?

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 05:02:03 -0800, mike wrote:

> Google maps has been available on many devices.
> Question is whether the downloaded map is "live" or not.
> Back in the day, Streets and Trips said they could download the map.
> And you could, but it was a fixed rendering of the map from your main PC.
> Great as a map, but couldn't do anything interesting like reroute.

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 05:02:03 -0800, mike wrote:

> Google maps has been available on many devices.
> Question is whether the downloaded map is "live" or not.
> Back in the day, Streets and Trips said they could download the map.
> And you could, but it was a fixed rendering of the map from your main PC.
> Great as a map, but couldn't do anything interesting like reroute.

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 16:12:45 +0000, ~BD~ wrote:

> Did you read my post to 'mike', Danny?

To summarize, you referred to the Google "Maps" application.
Interestingly, I had it on my Android phone all along.
But, I didn't know it could download the maps for offline use.

I did follow the directions on the web page for downloading
the map data, but, it apparently only caches the 'screen'.

At least this is what it says in default view when I ask
it to "Make this map area available offline".

If I'm zoomed out to about 50 miles, it says:
"The on-screen map area is too large. Zoom in first."

When I zoom into about half that, roughly around 25 miles,
it seems to download the map, saying: "Pre-loading map" as
it does so (with a percentage). It took about five minutes
to "pre-load" the roughly 25-mile diameter map, saying in
the end "The on-screen map area has been cached".

Then I turned off the wifi, and it *did* seem to cache the
maps, down to the deepest level of detail. So, it *seems* to
work.

I hope the cache is permanent though (i.e., survives reboot).

So, in quick conclusion: The Google "Maps" application *should*
work because I can "cache" the maps, in 25-mile increments.

Dunno if GPS works with the cached maps offline, but, I will
test that out.

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 16:12:45 +0000, ~BD~ wrote:

> Did you read my post to 'mike', Danny?

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 20:35:55 +0000, Danny D. wrote:

> That's *exactly* what I want to do:
> 1. Install the correct program (while on wifi)
> 2. Download a regional map (while on wifi)
> 3. Then, turn off wifi (or go hiking or driving)

The good news is that the Google "Maps" application
regional "cache" survived a reboot!

What it does is fuzz out any area that you haven't
cached; but for any area you've cached, it does
get you down to the street level. That's good.

I typed in a city name, and left it at the default
zoom (again, I'm guessing about 25 miles or so), and
at that default zoom level, it had no problem caching
the additional maps in just a minute or three.

Again, I haven't run the GPS integration on it, but,
since it's Google, I expect it to be pretty good.

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 16:12:45 +0000, ~BD~ wrote:

> Did you read my post to 'mike', Danny?

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 20:35:55 +0000, Danny D. wrote:

> That's *exactly* what I want to do:
> 1. Install the correct program (while on wifi)
> 2. Download a regional map (while on wifi)
> 3. Then, turn off wifi (or go hiking or driving)

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 20:35:55 +0000, Danny D. wrote:

> That's *exactly* what I want to do:
> 1. Install the correct program (while on wifi)
> 2. Download a regional map (while on wifi)
> 3. Then, turn off wifi (or go hiking or driving)

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 18:07:19 +1300, John S wrote:

> I obtained the "Mapfactor Navigator Free"

> On opening, you are given the option to download maps from
> openstreetmap.org, which I did for New Zealand.

> On the road, it navigates perfectly well, from the gps signal,
> using the downloaded maps.

I will try to learn from you since I do very much want an offline
map that will route from point A to point B using just GPS signals.

When I start MapFactor Navigator 1.0.35, I get a screen with:
a. Search
b. Navigate
c. Route info
d. My places
e. Tools
f. Map

When I press "Map", it shows me where I am, but, only in
a map of gross detail, meaning no roads; just country outlines.

Looking about, I see a gray region below the six buttons above,
that says:
g. Settings
h. Map manager
i. Exit

Clicking on "Map manager", I see three additional gray buttons:
j. Download maps
k. Delete maps
l. Buy maps

So, I click on "Download maps", and it says:
"Downloading list of available maps", one of which is "America"
which is actually "North America" from what I can tell ... so
I delve a bit deeper and select "USA OSM/USA California OSM",
with the available data version of "201310170".

While it's downloading that 129MB map data, they throw ads at
you; but they're not obnoxious, so I can easily live with that.

It takes a few minutes to download the entire 129MB so, I'll
type this up and write back if/when I get it to work the way
I want to, which is exactly what everyone else would want
who doesn't have a data plan.

We just want the Android device to work exactly like a hand-held
portable GPS device normally works.

1. Download the desired maps while online & then go offline
2. Offline, we want to set a start & stop point & route between them.
3. It should use the GPS transceiver to figure out where you are.

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 18:07:19 +1300, John S wrote:

> I obtained the "Mapfactor Navigator Free"

> On opening, you are given the option to download maps from
> openstreetmap.org, which I did for New Zealand.

> On the road, it navigates perfectly well, from the gps signal,
> using the downloaded maps.

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 18:07:19 +1300, John S wrote:

> I obtained the "Mapfactor Navigator Free"

> On opening, you are given the option to download maps from
> openstreetmap.org, which I did for New Zealand.

> On the road, it navigates perfectly well, from the gps signal,
> using the downloaded maps.

[Marius Gavrilescu]

Danny D'Amico <dan...@is.invalid> writes:

> More description once downloaded ...
> "This free OsmAnd version is limited to 10 downloads and
> does not support offline Wikipedia articles."
>
> I'm not sure what a Wikipedia article does for me, but, the 10
> maps does not seem to be too limiting since a US state seems to
> be a single download.

It is best to get OsmAnd from F-Droid [0], an application market for
free and open source software. This way you'll get a full version of
OsmAnd without these limits.

Wikipedia articles are not really useful. They're some extra POIs which
pull up offline wikipedia articles.

[0]: https://f-droid.org/
--
Marius Gavrilescu

[Danny D.]

I apologize for the triplicate posts!
My free news server (aioe.org) for some reason does
that whenever I have a flaky Internet connection.

Please ignore the duplicate posts.

[Danny D.]

[Danny D.]

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 23:40:53 +0200, Marius Gavrilescu wrote:

> It is best to get OsmAnd from F-Droid [0], an application market for
> free and open source software. This way you'll get a full version of
> OsmAnd without these limits.

I have only used Google play.
Reading the web page for f-droid.org, it seems to be a google-play
lookalike for free and open source applications only.

That's good; but, how would f-droid have a different limit on
it's freeware than google play has on its freeware?

Which is the *real* OsmAnd?

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 23:40:53 +0200, Marius Gavrilescu wrote:

> It is best to get OsmAnd from F-Droid [0], an application market for
> free and open source software. This way you'll get a full version of
> OsmAnd without these limits.

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 23:40:53 +0200, Marius Gavrilescu wrote:

> It is best to get OsmAnd from F-Droid [0], an application market for
> free and open source software. This way you'll get a full version of
> OsmAnd without these limits.

[Marius Gavrilescu]

"Danny D." <dan...@nowhere.com> writes:

> I have only used Google play.
> Reading the web page for f-droid.org, it seems to be a google-play
> lookalike for free and open source applications only.
>
> That's good; but, how would f-droid have a different limit on
> it's freeware than google play has on its freeware?
>
> Which is the *real* OsmAnd?

Both are real.

OsmAnd is free software. However, the developer published it as a paid
application on Google Play, with a crippled free version.

The F-Droid version is just like the paid version on Google Play, just
compiled by the F-Droid server instead of the developer.

Also, if you are looking for another usenet server, try [0]. The problem
might also be caused by your usenet client. I personally use Gnus, but I
also used (and liked) slrn before.

[0]: http://www.eternal-september.org/
--
Marius Gavrilescu

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 21:15:31 +0000, Danny D. wrote:

> So, I click on "Download maps", and it says:
> "Downloading list of available maps", one of which is "America"
> which is actually "North America" from what I can tell ... so
> I delve a bit deeper and select "USA OSM/USA California OSM",
> with the available data version of "201310170".

Ah. That was my problem!
Now the "Mapfactor Navigator Free" freeware Android application
*does* have a map underneath it (finally!).

And, I can route (it seems) from one saved "My Places" to another!
Woo hoo!

Time to test if it works with GPS on the road!

PS: OT, but, how can portable GPS devices compete with phones
in the future? I can't see how they can, except they are bigger
and can pack more features that are related to trip navigation.

[M.L.]

>> Does GPS routing capability exist in Android freeware?
>
>NavFree

I'm surprised no one mentioned CoPilot. It meets all the OP
requirements, includes audio, easy to use and works quite well.

[Patrick]

On 14/11/2013 20:11, Danny D. wrote:
> I have a use-model question about "MapFactor Navigator" version 1.0.35
> on Samsung Galaxy SIII Android 4.1.2 where I can't figure out HOW the
> use model can possibly work.
>
> Since it must be either me (being a dimwit), or, the use model is impossible
> to figure out for MapFactor (which would mean it is unusable) ... I must ask:
>
> QUESTION: How do you set the start and stop point from your "My Places"?
>

MapFactor;
I have found that if you Tap (not Tap and hold) the item in 'My Places'
you will be given this menu;

?Select action
-------------------------
Navigate
Set as departure
Set as waypoint
Set as destination
Add to My places (strange, this just makes a copy)
Show on map

If you Tap and hold the item you will be given a different menu
(including Delete the Item).

Haven't checked but after you set you destination from My Places (as
above), you will goto the main menu and click 'Navigate' and it will
give you visual and audio for your journey.

[The Real Bev]

On 11/14/2013 01:03 PM, Moe DeLoughan wrote:

> On 11/14/2013 2:11 PM, Danny D. wrote:
>> I have a use-model question about "MapFactor Navigator" version 1.0.35
>> on Samsung Galaxy SIII Android 4.1.2 where I can't figure out HOW the
>> use model can possibly work.
>

> Here's the manual:
> http://static.mapfactor.com/files/Navigator_android_eng.pdf

Can you only do this when you actually have the GPS running and a map
displayed? What I'd like to do is set my destination inside my home and
sanity-check the route before I leave. I have been able to create
NOTHING except a useless new 'group'. No destinations, no favourites,
no Home, nothing. 'Search' only searches a history, of which there is,
of course, none. WTF?

No, I don't trust this stuff any more than my Garmin, which has led me
astray several times and tried to kill me twice.

> From page 25:
>
> Using favourites you can quickly access locations and set as
> navigation destinations.
>
> Tap on a favourite and you will be taken to the following screen. To
> expand a group tap on it.
>
> Now tap Navigate and your journey will be calculated.
>
> You have also the following options:
>
> Set as departure - Set the start of your journey (only necessary if
> you want to calculate a route without GPS)
>
> Set as waypoint - Add it as a stop along your journey
>
> Set as destination - Set the destination point without starting
> navigation immediately
>
> Add to favourites - Add your selection to your favourites
>
> Show on Map - Show the result on the map

Never actually saw a map, even when I was outside with a GPS fix.

> Favourite Journeys are set in Main Menu/My routes


--
Cheers,
Bev
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I've enjoyed just about as much of this as I can stand.

[The Real Bev]

On 11/15/2013 07:30 AM, Danny D'Amico wrote:

> On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 08:27:59 +0200, Marius Gavrilescu wrote:
>
>> Yes. It's called Osmand.
>
> Thanks for the pointer. There seem to be over 250 apps that
> use the free Open Street Map data! This is great advice!
>
> Searching on the phone (with WiFi) for "Osmand" found these:
> - ($0) OsmAnd Maps & Navigation (v1.6.5 beta, 21.72MB, 11/6/2013)
> - ($0) OsmAnd-Parking plugin
> - ($0) OsmAnd-Ski
> - ($0) OsmAnd Voice Import
> - ($2) OsmAnd Contour lines plugin
> - ($7) OsmAnd+ Maps & Navigation(v1.6.5 beta, 21.72MB, 11/5/2013)
> etc.
>
> The freeware description is:
> OsmAnd (OSM Automated Navigation Directions) is a map and navigation
> application with access to the free, worldwide, and high-quality
> OpenStreetMap (OSM) data. All map data can be stored on your device's
> memory card for offline use.

It seems to allow moving everything from phone/internal storage to the
external sdcard. It would be nice if it gave you that choice before you
downloaded it... I moved the osmand subdirectory to /storage/sdcard1
and it actually runs and saves stuff there. Maybe 'll download more
maps now that I have space for them.

> Via your device's GPS, OsmAnd offers
> routing, with optical and voice guidance, for car, bike, and pedestrian.
> All the main functionalities work both online and offline (no Internet
> needed).

I wish adding a destination/waypoint were more intuitive. For ALL GPS
software. It's like the instructions that came with the pnone: "Insert
the battery." Nothing about sticking a screwdriver into the invisible
slot on top, twisting it a bit, and then running your fingernail or
similar object down the join to separate the back from the front and
THEN inserting the battery...

> The paid description adds:
> OsmAnd+ is the paid application version. By buying it you support the
> project, fund the development of new features, and receive the latest
> updates.


--
Cheers, Bev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
It only takes 2 men to tile a bathroom
if you slice them thinly enough.

[Hans-Georg Michna]

On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 20:15:28 +0000 (UTC), Danny D. wrote:

>If it turns out that this Mapfactor Navigator free application
>can't route from point A to point B without a data plan, can
>someone suggest a viable freeware Android application for a
>GPS-enabled Samsung Galaxy SIII that *can* route from a pre-defined
>location1 to a pre-defined location2 without having to have a data
>plan?
>
>It seems to me, all the phone needs is:
>a) A map (e.g., OSM free data maps should work, right?)
>b) GPS signals (which the Samsung Galaxy SIII has, right?)
>c) Software that *can* route from point a to point b on the OSM map
>given those GPS signals.

>
>Does GPS routing capability exist in Android freeware?

As others have already written, there is a variety of offline
navigation apps available. For example, I sometimes use Locus
for this on an Android phone.

Two points should be mentioned, however.

1. Programs can navigate offline, but they cannot do this very
well, because they have no information about the traffic. I
recently drove along a freeway and was directed off the freeway
by Google Navigation. After a brief check I followed the advice
and drove happily along a nice country highway parallel to the
freeway, on which I could observe a multi-mile-long traffic jam.
Google Nav saved me 15 minutes on that one and another 15
minutes on the next. The third traffic jam on that day I had to
endure, because apparently Google Nav reckoned that I'd be
better off staying on the freeway than turning off into a city
where traffic was not faster.

2. The GPS needs an Internet connection to get its first fix
quickly. Without the Internet connection it can take anything
between 3 and 20 minutes in my experience, until the GPS gets
its first fix. However, if it is positioned favorably, like
under the windshield of a car, it will produce location
information happily ever after, until it loses its view of the
sky.

Actually, let me add a third point. If you have a smartphone,
why not have an Internet connection as well? A smartphone
without an Internet connection is like a car without wheels, a
pretty much useless piece of junk.

Hans-Georg

[Hans-Georg Michna]

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 10:15:02 +0000, ~BD~ wrote:

>I watched a long video from Google yesterday and understand that one may
>now download a specified area map whilst 'on-line' - and then *save it*
>for use if/when Wi-Fi and/or a 3G/4G connection is not unavailable!

True, but it does not allow offline navigation.

Hans-Georg

[Danny D'Amico]

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 23:31:55 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:

> I wish adding a destination/waypoint were more intuitive [in OsmAnd]...

I've been having trouble with my newsserver so I apologize for not answering
all the posts sooner.

I had posted a very detailed summary, and lost it and now I don't have the
heart to type it all over again (Damn Pan doesn't have a sent folder or an
outbox and aioe was dropping my posts but saying they were successful!).

Anyway, here's a quick rehash to help others who want to turn an Android
phone without data into a poor-man's portable GPS nav system ...

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 08:24:11 +0200, Marius Gavrilescu wrote:

> OsmAnd has the features described by you above: favorites, addresses, GPS
> coordinates, being browse-friendly.

Thanks for the pointers. Here's a quick summary (I wasn't able to post
from aioe so I lost all my replies to you guys yesterday.) :(

Goal: Android free GPS apps that perform point-to-point routing offline:
Quick impressions after a few minutes with each of the following apps.
1. Google Maps, version 7.4.0
Pro: Familiar Google maps, routing, overlays, & POI; speaks road names.
Con: You must download 25-by-25-mile square sections beforehand.
But you can't easily tell how to make contiguous downloads.
2. OsmAnd~ (obtained from F-Droid), version 1.5-ARM
Pro: Maps downloads are not limited & speaks the name of the road
Con: It wouldn't find a few well-known destinations (need more tests)
3. MapFactor Navigator, version 1.0.35
Pro: Works nicely offline with GPS.
Con: Does not speak the name of the roads.
..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
I don't recommend those below - but they are also billed as freeware.
..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
4. Navmii Navfree USA, version 2.1.17 build 12063
Pro: Download USA maps by state
Con: Adware is really obnoxious
5. CoPilot, version
Pro: Speaks the name of the road when routing.
Con: Must supply an email address & password (can be bogus it appears).
Voice navigation costs money after the trial period?
6. OsmAnd (obtained from Google Play), version 1.6.5 beta
Pro: Same as OsmAnd~
Con: Limited to 10 downloaded maps

DISCLAIMER: This is a first pass; some of what I wrote could be wrong.
If it is, please point it out as I don't mind being corrected, and, in
fact, I appreciate the help.

[Danny D'Amico]

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 18:48:28 +0000, Danny D'Amico wrote:

> Goal: Android free GPS apps that perform point-to-point routing offline.

After running quick tests, I can only recommend these two (at this time):
1. Google Maps (obtained from Google Play), version 7.4.0

2. OsmAnd~ (obtained from F-Droid), version 1.5-ARM

Basically, Google Maps wins for almost everything *except* the really
frustrating need to download cryptically unspecified rectangles of
roughly 25-by-25-mile map chunks. That idea is horrifically lousy.

If Google Maps at least showed *which* chunks were downloaded, that
would help; but it would still be a pain. So, Google Maps can really
only be recommended for your local area (where you KNOW what the area
is).

Given that the expense of freeware is in selecting the best one,
I'd pretty much have to say OsmAnd~ seems to be the freeware offline
routing program of choice.

MapFactor Navigator, version 1.0.35, would be a good second choice
if the thing would speak the names of the roads, but it doesn't.

CoPilot and NavFree weren't worth the effort to test them (IMHO),
and neither was the OsmAnd Google Play version.

[Danny D'Amico]

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 19:06:50 -0600, M.L. wrote:

> I'm surprised no one mentioned CoPilot. It meets all the OP
> requirements, includes audio, easy to use and works quite well.

Thanks for that suggestion. In the olden days, I had used the Win95 or Win2K version
of CoPilot, where I plugged a 5-inch half-round white dome into my serial port, and
then drove around with that white dome on my dash and the laptop literally on my lap.

CoPilot was the best then, because it would speak the names of the roads.
I installed the free CoPilot Android application, and I didn't like that it insisted
on an email address (I gave it a bogus one), and it said something about the voice
being only a trial TTS, so, I'm a bit worried about that.

Also, I wasn't sure if the maps were free either, as when I first tried, it tried
to get ten bucks off me; but when I tried again, it allowed a California download.

Anyway, it's scary enough, and there are others (like OsmAnd~) which don't scare me
on the installation, that, I'll test it out, but, I'm not encouraged by what I see
so far in the install.

Does anyone know, from experience, what that trial period stuff was about?
Note: the goal here is freeware, not trialware.

The expense of freeware is in the testing to pick a good one to bother to learn,
so, if CoPilot has trialware in it, it isn't even worth testing.

[Danny D'Amico]

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 08:05:17 +0000, Hans Meier wrote:

> NavFree

I installed NavFree and NavFree USA (and Sygic) but found NavFree USA ads
obnoxious (and Sygic turned out to be payware).

So, neither looks promising.

Again, we have to make quick decisions, unless there is someone who knows the
software really well, because the expense of freeware is in picking the best
one and learning only that interface (if possible).

So, *my* first impression of the obnoxious ads in NavFree USA was that it
likely isn't worth the expense of testing it.

I did first accidentally download the NavFree version that had *only* non-USA
maps for free; and then I came upon NavFree USA, which allowed USA maps for
free. So, I have it installed now, but, I'm not all that hopeful, being a
freeware junkie, I have to make a call early in the testing process unless
someone who knows better explains it.

BTW, NavFree USA did add clouds to the routing, which was an interesting
perspective, as it tried to emulate 3D maps. The roads drove off into the
sunset, so to speak.

One bad thing though, is that NavFree USA doesn't seem to speak the roads,
but, I have yet to test all of these more fully on the road.

So consider this only a first impression as I try to do a first sort to
weed out those worth the expense of testing further.

[Danny D'Amico]

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 20:34:44 +0000, ~BD~ wrote:

> I'd only just read about the new facility in Google Maps and had
> not/have not yet tested it myself. I have no doubt that, being Google,
> the facility will only get better! ;-)

Yeah. The funny thing was that, of all the suggested programs, the only
one I *already* had was the Google Map app!

But, of course, I hadn't realized that you could download the map
chunks, for offline use. So, it didn't occur to me that it was a great
first (or second) choice.

For the hundred miles surrounding your home, I would think it's not
too frustrating to download the maps ahead of time. The hard part is
only in making sure you don't skip areas, since you have no visual
clue what you've downloaded (AFAIK).

But, other than that, the Google Map app seems to be a great first
choice.

Since the expense of freeware is in the testing, I will likely mostly
compare OsmAnd~ (note the tilde!) with Google Maps, to choose the
best of those two.

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per M.L.:

>I'm surprised no one mentioned CoPilot. It meets all the OP
>requirements, includes audio, easy to use and works quite well.

The less-than-ten-dollar price made it a no-brainer for me.

But the thrill wore off when it told me to make a right turn on to an
overpass.

Since then Somebody-Who-Probably-Knows has said this is a common fault
across all GPS apps. But I had moved on to Sygic by the time I read
that.
--
Pete Cresswell

[The Real Bev]

I've got that, but it's threatening to lose some of its functionality in
2 days unless I pay for the full version. We'll see...

I really wish entering in destinations were as simple as it is with a
real Garmin. One of them won't let me feed in a street number and
demands a cross street instead. If I knew the fscking cross street, why
would I need a goddam GPS?

--
Cheers, Bev
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(On going to war over religion:) "You're basically killing each other
to see who's got the better imaginary friend." -- Rich Jeni

[The Real Bev]

On 11/16/2013 02:36 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

> Per M.L.:
>>I'm surprised no one mentioned CoPilot. It meets all the OP
>>requirements, includes audio, easy to use and works quite well.
>
> The less-than-ten-dollar price made it a no-brainer for me.
>
> But the thrill wore off when it told me to make a right turn on to an
> overpass.

HAH! I can beat that. My Garmin told me to make a left turn off the
edge of a mountain where there could NEVER have been even the
possibility of a road. Twice.

> Since then Somebody-Who-Probably-Knows has said this is a common fault
> across all GPS apps. But I had moved on to Sygic by the time I read
> that.

Having to sanity-check a route beforehand kind of spoils the experience,
especially when it's not easy to do :-(

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per The Real Bev:

>> Since then Somebody-Who-Probably-Knows has said this is a common fault
>> across all GPS apps. But I had moved on to Sygic by the time I read
>> that.
>
>Having to sanity-check a route beforehand kind of spoils the experience,
>especially when it's not easy to do :-(

Agreed, but I have come to accept that, if I tell a GPS to plan a route
for me, that the chances of it being the one I would choose are not so
good. Accordingly, I plan the long-distance part of any trip using a
map and only rely on the GPS to get me to a local spot once I am in the
area.

If I ever get comfortable with Sygic's rout modification feature I might
also modify it's routes to agree with what I planned using a map - just
for the voice instructions before turns and exits.
--
Pete Cresswell

[Hans-Georg Michna]

Correction: If you start the navigation while still online and
are careful never to interrupt it, Google Navigation will
navigate offline. For this function you don't even have to
download all the maps along your route for offline use---Google
Maps does this automatically, but only for this single,
temporary case.

Of course you cannot change your mind and choose a different
destination or drive an alternative route while being offline.

Hans-Georg

[Colin]

"Danny D." <dan...@nowhere.com> wrote in
news:l63aok$4pu$1...@speranza.aioe.org:

> I have a use-model question about "MapFactor Navigator" version 1.0.35
> on Samsung Galaxy SIII Android 4.1.2 where I can't figure out HOW the
> use model can possibly work.
>

> Since it must be either me (being a dimwit), or, the use model is
> impossible to figure out for MapFactor (which would mean it is
> unusable) ... I must ask:
>
> QUESTION: How do you set the start and stop point from your "My
> Places"?
>

> Here's how to reproduce:
> 1. I have no data plan, but I have WiFi so, I can save places while on
> the net. 2. I add, using the wifi, "Favourites" to "My Places", let's
> call them 'favorite1' and 'favorite2' which are intended to be my
> start and end points. 3. Then I travel, where there is no wifi (or
> just turn off the WiFi). 4. I press "Navigate" where all I want is to
> route from "favorite1" to "favorite2". But, HOW do you tell the
> software to navigate from favorite1 to favorite2? 5. NONE of the
> available options (address & name, imports, map center, gps position)
> allow using "favorite1" as the destination.
>
> Can a navigation program be *that* useless?
> I find that hard to believe - so - it must be something *I* am doing
> wrong. But what?
>
> QUESTION: How do you set the start point as "favorite1" from "My
> Places", and how do you set the stop point as "favorite2" from "My
> Places" in MapFactor Navigator 1.0.35 on Android?
>
> This should be trivial...

Tru BeOnRoad. It has an option to use free maps and after the program is
installed (from the Google store) you download your maps and don't need a
data connection anymore. Take a look at my blog for a detailed review.

--
Read and be merry http://blog.rankarmor.com

[Danny D'Amico]

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 22:02:26 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:

> Osmand (Ozymandias, or something completely
> different) is running on the external sdcard now, but I think it's one
> of the ones that's nasty about entering destinations.

I must concur that some of the tested offline GPS free apps were
absolutely miserable to enter the starting and/or ending locations.

You'd think *that* would be simple.

So far, I've tested these, and self declare them "the best":
OsmAnd~ (and its crippled twin, OsmAnd)
Google Maps (even with its limited offline capability)
MapFactor Navigator (even with its god-awful map colors)

One thing about freeware is that often they're only really
good for a specific application.

For example, Google Maps is really good because you're already
familiar with it, and its layers ... but ... it only works well
if you have the map downloaded (assuming no data plan), so, I'd
use Google Maps around home (where I have downloaded the maps).

If I start to travel any distance, then Google Maps will fail
me, so then I'd switch to OsmAnd~ (which at least downloads entire
states at a time).

And, if I was in a rush, I'd ignore the horrid map graphic colors,
and resort to MapFactor, even though it doesn't speak the names
of the roads - at least the user interface is the most like a
"real" portable GPS navigation system.

[Danny D'Amico]

On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 18:19:09 +0700, John B. wrote:

> I only use OsmAnd as a map that tells me where I am so I don't know
> all the bells and whistles but it does have the ability to enter
> waypoints that "I think" might work for you.

When I start OsmAnd~ with no data connection, it opens with a 4-box
GUI, saying "Map", "Search", "Favorites", and "Settings".

Clicking on "Map", it shows a lot of stuff in horrid colors, which,
thankfully you can modify. In fact, you can modify almost anything.
Unfortunately, whatever settings I modified make the entire map
glow with horrid unnatural colors, making it into an abstract Picasso.

When I start Google Maps with no data connection, I don't get a whole
bunch of usable options (e.g., traffic won't work without data), but,
at least it zooms to my current location on the map. Ah. That was easy.

So, I think this offline stuff will take a bit of getting used to:
- OsmAnd~ gives me options for anything possible, while,
- Google Maps without data works pretty much like Google Maps with data,
except that you'd better omnipotently pre-load the data first.

[Danny D'Amico]

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 17:28:48 -0500, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

> Cresswell Predicts: Osmand will be your winner.

After a bit more testing offline, I have to say OsmAnd~ kills
cached Google Maps.

The key issue that is frustrating with OsmAnd~ is that an
offline search for a POI is limited to <100 km.

That's frustrating for two reasons:
1. I can't find a setting to change 100km to 60 miles
2. I want to search for something further than 60 miles away

I will google and see if there is a way, but; something that
simple should be intuitive.

Of course, the nearest contender, cached Google Maps, says
"No Network Connection" when you try to search sans a data
plan, even with the cached maps.

So, I'm beginning to ding Google Maps more and more, for
offline use anyway, as you really have to do all the planning
online, whereas OsmAnd~ at least will allow a 60 mile radius
of planning offline.

[Danny D'Amico]

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 17:36:38 -0500, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

> Since then Somebody-Who-Probably-Knows has said this is a common fault
> across all GPS apps. But I had moved on to Sygic by the time I read
> that.

Speaking of common faults, and being a freeware aficionado, strategically,
I would *never* buy an app until/unless I already exhausted the freeware
alternatives.

In the best case (i.e., most of the time), the freeware apps do what
I need done.

In the worst case, after having tested the freeware apps and failing to
do what I need done, at the very least, I *know* exactly what I want in
an application.

That is, I want, in the payware, whatever the freeware lacked.

This usually is specific enough to sort through the various payware
alternatives (since I can't afford to buy them all).

[Danny D'Amico]

On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 08:56:45 -0500, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

> If I ever get comfortable with Sygic's rout modification feature I might
> also modify it's routes to agree with what I planned using a map - just
> for the voice instructions before turns and exits.

Given we slide blue dots around to modify a PC browser google map around,
what would be nice would be to modify the route at home on the PC, and then
save that modified route in some common format.

Then, all we'd need to do is suck that common format into our GPS app
on the Android device.

Does something like that exist?

[Danny D'Amico]

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 21:58:53 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:

> I've got that, but it's threatening to lose some of its functionality in
> 2 days unless I pay for the full version. We'll see...

I had the same problem with the freeware copilot. I wasn't sure *what* it
was threatening to lose (I think it was the text-to-speech?) so I ditched
it, as, well, I've always said, the cost of freeware is in all the testing.

So, the only offline map apps I'm testing at this point are:
1. OsmAnd~
2. MapFactor Navigator
and
3. Google Maps (although this is falling farther & farther behind as I
begin to try to actually use it WITHOUT an Internet connection).

[Danny D'Amico]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 04:44:56 +0000, Danny D'Amico wrote:

> That is, I want, in the payware, whatever the freeware lacked.
> This usually is specific enough to sort through the various payware
> alternatives (since I can't afford to buy them all).

BTW, I teach my kids the same rule.
Never (ever) buy payware until you've used the freeware (and failed).
Because then, you know exactly what to ask about the payware.

Sometimes, even the payware fails on that key set of requirements.
Often, the freeware does just fine.
Most of the time, a combination of freeware does everything I need.

[Danny D'Amico]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 03:27:44 +0000, Colin wrote:

> Try BeOnRoad.

Thanks!

That's a new suggestion which nobody else suggested to date!
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=cz.aponia.bor3

Google Play seems to have two in stock:
1. Please Upgrade Aponia Software SRO (huh?)
2. GPS Navigation Be-On-Road Aponia Software SRO

I downloaded the second one in the list above:

Description:
Free GPS offline map and navigation which allows for concurrent
usage of OpenStreetMap, Navteq maps (trial version), or local map
providers.

After installing, it asked me where to put my data, but only
gave me one choice (so why did it ask?) and then automatically
downloaded stuff for a few minutes.

Then it asked me to choose a language, where "English" was my
choice; then I get to choose either a British or American English
voice; it asked for an email, but allowed me to skip; and then
did a "synchronization" before asking me to select a map out of
a list of continents (how is synchronizing different than
downloading?)

Selecting "North America" brought up a long list of states and
countries, where I then selected "California". It gave me the
choice of a trial (7-day) Navteq or the free OpenStreetMap.org maps,
where I picked the free stuff (trials are rarely worth the learning
curve).

Cryptically, even though I de-selected the Navteq map, it then
said "Packages to install: 2", so, I was confused why selecting 1
maps gets you 2 downloads, but, I ignored that and move on.

After an un-intuitive checkbox-versus-x selection, it then,
for the third time, downloaded data for a very long time.
It took so long, I thought my cellphone battery would die.

The default view seems to be a 3D view, which is nice. Hitting
the "MENU" button brings up a nice portable-GPS-like 6-box
menu of "Destination", "POI", "Services", "Settings", "Home"
and "Work".

In Settings, I set the "Regional Settings" to "yd/mi" and
then tried to navigate to UCLA from my current destination.
Hmmm... it had only one "University of California" and it
was the closest UC to me, but no other choices, so, the POI
search must be limited to a short distance.

I chose that closest UC, and it routed to it from where it
thought I was. It gave good route descriptions, and even allowed
route recording.

My quick assessment is that the freeware BeOnRoad offline
GPS routing Android application is worth it to be in the top
three to test:

1. OsmAnd~ (the current functional favorite)
2. MapFactor Navigator (the current second place)
3. Aponia Be-On-Road (just displaced Google Maps after a quick test)
----
4. Google Maps (falling farther & farther behind)

[tlvp]

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 21:58:53 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:

> One of them won't let me feed in a street number and
> demands a cross street instead. If I knew the fscking cross street, why
> would I need a goddam GPS?

Osmand~ seems to have an easily overlooked tick-box to let you specify
whether you prefer to feed in a cross street or a house number. Could
something like that be what's buggering the system you're describing above?

Cheers, -- tlvp
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.

[Danny D'Amico]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 04:50:07 +0000, Danny D'Amico wrote:

> So, the only offline map apps I'm testing at this point are

My quick tests put these as the best of the suggested offline Android maps:
1. (F-Droid) OsmAnd~ (un-crippled version)
2. MapFactor Navigator (uses OSM maps)
3. Aponia Be-On-Road (uses OSM maps or payware maps)

Dropped off my top-three list after an initial test:
a. Google Maps (best maps for accuracy!)
b. NavFree USA (uses OSM maps)
c. CoPilot free (proprietary maps?)
d. OsmAnd (Google Play version)
e. Google My Tracks

However, this review of offline Android map apps puts cached Google Maps first:
http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/top-3-free-offline-gps-apps-android/

1. Google Maps
2. OsmAnd (free version is crippled)
3. NavFree (uses OSM data)

But, googling, these also appear to be free offline GPS navigation Android apps:

[Ashton Crusher]

On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 20:15:28 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."

<dan...@nowhere.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 20:11:00 +0000, Danny D. wrote:
>
>> Since it must be either me (being a dimwit), or, the use model is impossible
>> to figure out for MapFactor (which would mean it is unusable) ... I must ask:
>> QUESTION: How do you set the start and stop point from your "My Places"?
>

>If it turns out that this Mapfactor Navigator free application
>can't route from point A to point B without a data plan, can
>someone suggest a viable freeware Android application for a
>GPS-enabled Samsung Galaxy SIII that *can* route from a pre-defined
>location1 to a pre-defined location2 without having to have a data
>plan?
>
>It seems to me, all the phone needs is:
>a) A map (e.g., OSM free data maps should work, right?)
>b) GPS signals (which the Samsung Galaxy SIII has, right?)
>c) Software that *can* route from point a to point b on the OSM map
>given those GPS signals.
>

>Does GPS routing capability exist in Android freeware?

have you tried Google Maps???

[Heinrich Pfeifer]

Am 16.11.2013 14:09, schrieb Hans-Georg Michna:
>
> Actually, let me add a third point. If you have a smartphone,
> why not have an Internet connection as well? A smartphone
> without an Internet connection is like a car without wheels, a
> pretty much useless piece of junk.

I guess you're German, are you?

For Americans who hardly leave the US, your statement is true. No doubt.
But here in Europe most people have good internet access within the home
country but roaming in neighbour countries is expensive.


--

Heinrich
mail: new<at>pfei.eu

[Hans-Georg Michna]

Yes, I'm German and in Germany.

But data roaming is not all that expensive any more, and there
are new EU regulations coming that will lower the price even
more by getting rid of all roaming fees.

Currently in the EU you can get 25 MB for €1.99 from midnight to
midnight (O2) or 25 MB for 48 hours for €2.50 (simquadrat) or
250 MB for €20 for a month (simquadrat). The other operators all
have similar offers. If you move around and need to navigate,
the phone may well pay for itself in saved time and kilometers.

If I stay in another country for longer, I get a local prepaid
SIM card, for example, Safaricom in Kenya. There data is only
half as expensive as it is here in Germany, and coverage is good
and always improving. I'd do the same thing in European
countries, for example getting a prepaid TIM or Wind SIM card in
Italy, where they have surprisingly cheap weekly data tariffs.

To be honest, I find the thought of carrying a smartphone
without an Internet connection stupid or at least thoughtless.
People can do what they want, but if I think they make mistakes,
I will try to tell them.

Hans-Georg

[Danny D'Amico]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 01:54:18 -0500, tlvp wrote:

> Osmand~ seems to have an easily overlooked tick-box to let you specify
> whether you prefer to feed in a cross street or a house number. Could
> something like that be what's buggering the system you're describing above?

I was having a rough time with OsmAnd~ obtaining a street number of
a building. For an entire street in a city, OsmAnd~ would only allow
two pre-defined building numbers. It was absolutely weird.

I went through *every* setting I could find, and, well, if it's there,
I missed it.

An article on the web suggested putting in the GPS coordinates, which,
would work but which wouldn't be so easy to determine while you're off
wifi on the road.

[Danny D'Amico]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 01:07:05 -0700, Ashton Crusher wrote:

>>Does GPS routing capability exist in Android freeware?
> have you tried Google Maps???

Heh heh ... the funny thing is that Google Maps was the only mapware
on my computer, and I didn't even know it had *offline* capabilities.

Of course, you have to know *how* to cache the maps; and, the cache
is crazy in that they are seemingly of arbitrary size (probably
data density dependent); and you have absolutely no idea of what
tiles you've already cached (so you'll certainly make mistakes); and,
their seems to be an arbitrary limit (based on some reports) of the
number of tiles you can cache; and, in the end, you still can't search
for POIs or anything else while offline (all you get is the map).

So, given that, I would put Google Maps further and further down
on my list of offline programs that helpfully came out of the thread.

It's probably great to cache tiles of the local surrounding area,
since at least you can make use of them in your daily commute; but,
for anything useful, you're going to have to use a bona-fide offline
mapping application.

Luckily, as this thread shows, there are plenty of freeware offline
mapping applications, such as these, which are in my top three after
quick tests:

1. (F-Droid) OsmAnd~ (un-crippled version)
2. MapFactor Navigator (uses OSM maps)
3. Aponia Be-On-Road (uses OSM maps or payware maps)

Dropped off my top-three list after an initial test:
a. Google Maps (best maps for accuracy!)
b. NavFree USA (uses OSM maps)
c. CoPilot free (proprietary maps?)
d. OsmAnd (Google Play version)
e. Google My Tracks

Note: When I test freeware, I make a first pass at the top three,
and then I only spend my time with them, unless something better
comes up to displace one of the top three.

I do this to limit the expense of the freeware.

[Danny D'Amico]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 13:12:40 +0000, Dick Streefland wrote:

> With Osmand~, you mean Osmand+?

Heh heh. I agree, it's confusing. I can't find the tickbox either, and
I'm using the same thing as OsmAnd+ (supposedly), which is called OsmAnd~
because I downloaded it from F-Droid.

The supposed difference between OsmAnd~, OsmAnd+, & OsmAnd was explained
earlier in this thread, in a post by Marius Gavrilescu, I believe, so
I repeat for convenience how I understand the permutations:

Google Play OsmAnd ==> Freeware (limited to something like 10 maps)
Google Play OsmAnd+ ==> Payware (not limited by number of maps)
F-Droid OsmAnd~ ==> Same as OsmAnd+ (also includes source code)

F-Droid is apparently similar to Google Play except it's intended
apparently only for opensource ware and not payware.

[Danny D'Amico]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 13:12:40 +0000, Dick Streefland wrote:

> I have the Osmand, the free edition, installed, and I can only choose
> between "Building" and "Intersecting street". Where can I find this
> easily overlooked tick-box?

I must agree with Dick Streefland. I tried *every* setting there is in
OsmAnd~ (which is said to be the freeware equivalent to OsmAnd+) and I
can't find any setting for this.

I'm using OsmAnd~ downloaded this week, version 1.5-ARM on a Samsung
Galaxy SIII running Android 4.1.2.

Of course, there is a switch where you can search by "intersection" or
"building", but, if you choose the latter, it will only allow very
narrow numerical choices.

For example, if I take the very first California address from this
list of famous people's residences online:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_the_addresses_of_some_famous_people

The first line is:
Criss Angel - 9465 Wilshire Blvd. - Beverly Hills, CA90212

I press:
[OsmAnd~]Search->Address search->
Region=Us California
City=Beverly Hills
Street=Wilshire Boulevard
Building=Choose building
Where my select box is on "Building" (and not on "Intersecting street").

The problem is that the *only* building allowed is 10101.
If I type in any other number, and hit "Done", nothing happens.

So, this magical setting to allow building numbers is very important,
if it exists, for us to find.

The *only* way I can find that street address in OsmAnd~ is to
google for it (while online) to obtain the GPS coordinates:
Latitude=34.067267
Longitude=-118.399852

Then, back in OsmAnd~, I can do a "Coordinates" search, entering
those two points (which I had obtained by typing the address into
GoogleMaps on the PC, & then right clicking to select "What's Here".

Cryptically, there is no "Done" button, so, I first tried pressing
the flag button, where it says:
"You already have destination point set.
(a) Replace destination point?
(b) Add as first waypoint?
(c) Add as last waypoint?

So, I selected "Replace destination point", and, nothing happened.
When I tried routing, it only had my current location in GPS
coordinates. Huh?

So, I went back and saved it to favorites by pressing the STAR
button. And then I told it to "Show" the destination, which put me
in the middle of the Inyo National Forest. Huh?

Then I got an error on my Samsung Galaxy SIII:
Error calculating route. Not enough process memory.
(9)MB available out of 64

Trying again using the "Follow" instead of "Show" button, I get:
Error calculating route: There is no [sic] enough memory

Hmmm... OsmAnd~ failed this test. Miserably.

[Danny D'Amico]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 08:24:11 -0600, CRNG wrote:

> Thanks for keeping us updated.

Reporting back results is what makes the USENET so great.
Especially for freeware.

The *expense* of freeware is in the selection and testing of the programs.
We can spread out that expense by helping each other and reporting back.

At the moment, after my last test trying to find a well known address on
Wilshire Boulevard, I'm starting to think that OsmAnd~, while the perfect
concept of open-source open-map offline GPS navigation software, is, in
reality, still in beta.

Luckily, there are plenty of other alternatives. But, they also seem to
be in a beta mode. :(

For example, I tried "Be-On-Road", by typing the zip code for:

Criss Angel - 9465 Wilshire Blvd. - Beverly Hills, CA90212

But, Be-On-Road would only take a few selections, the closest being
90210

So, I try again, typing in the city:
Beverly Hills

It then immediately starts routing to that city, without even allowing
me to put in any more of the address (such as the street & number).

What's with that?

So, I try again, this time with "Coordinates" where the direction is
required, so I had to *think* about whether I was north, south, east,
or west of the respective meridians when typing the numbers below:
Latitude=N34.0672 (you can't type any more decimal places)
Longitude=W-118.3998 (you can't type in more than 4 decimal places)

In contrast to OsmAnd~ (which errored out due to the lack of memory),
Be-On-Road calculated the route in about 10 seconds.

So, my quick assessment of this one offline test of routing a 300
mile distance to a known address is that both OsmAnd~ and Be-On-Road
failed; but Be-On-Road at least passed using a GPS coordinate workaround,
whereas OsmAnd~ failed in both the address and the GPS coordinate
routing.

Sigh. The expense of freeware is in the testing and choosing of the
best one to use.

[Danny D'Amico]

On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 14:58:43 +0100, Hans-Georg Michna wrote:

>>>Google Maps can cache offline maps

>
>>True, but it does not allow offline navigation.
>
> Correction: If you start the navigation while still online and
> are careful never to interrupt it, Google Navigation will
> navigate offline. For this function you don't even have to
> download all the maps along your route for offline use---Google
> Maps does this automatically, but only for this single,
> temporary case.
>
> Of course you cannot change your mind and choose a different
> destination or drive an alternative route while being offline.

Hi Hans-Georg,
Since the expense of freeware is the knowledge needed to choose
the right one, we greatly appreciate this useful datapoint!

The beauty of Google Maps is the accuracy.
The disadvantage is that you have to know *these* kinds of tricks
in order to get it to work offline.

Thanks!

[Danny D'Amico]

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 14:09:10 +0100, Hans-Georg Michna wrote:

> As others have already written, there is a variety of offline
> navigation apps available. For example, I sometimes use Locus
> for this on an Android phone.

Locus is a *new* suggestion! Thanks.

I'll download it, and test it offline in California on my Galaxy SIII:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=menion.android.locus&hl=en

Locus Map Free, by Asamm Software, s. r. o., November 15, 2013
Description: (9.41MB) version 2.17.2
GPS outdoor navigation app that is packed with features.
View topo maps offline, track your route, hunt geocaches,
use a voice guide and do even more...
- Explore new places
- Download cycling and hiking maps for offline use
- Plan your geocaching adventure
- Save you favorite routes and places
- Save your battery with smart GPS system
- Import your own tracks and points
- Enjoy new and improved features every month
and much more

There also appear to be some addons for this application:

Locus - addon GpsTrace, by Ville SML, May 29, 2013
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.vsy.gpstrace4locus&hl=en

Description
This is a plug-in for Locus mapping software. Plug-in enables to display
location data on Locus map from GPS transmitters.
Locus Free or Pro version 2.0.2 or later required for full functionality
Application sends SMS to gps transmitter to query gps transmitter location.
Returning SMS from gps transmitter is parsed and the transmitter location
is updated on Locus map.
Note that this app sends SMSes to gps transmitters.
Use at your own risk!

Hmmm... what does it mean to send an SMS text to a "gps transmitter"?
Isn't the GPS transmitter a satellite way up in the sky?

[Heinrich Pfeifer]

Am 18.11.2013 11:19, schrieb Hans-Georg Michna:

> Yes, I'm German and in Germany.
>
> But data roaming is not all that expensive any more, and there
> are new EU regulations coming that will lower the price even
> more by getting rid of all roaming fees.

Unfortunately, EU and Europe is not the same. I live close to CH, you
know...

> To be honest, I find the thought of carrying a smartphone
> without an Internet connection stupid or at least thoughtless.
> People can do what they want, but if I think they make mistakes,
> I will try to tell them.

for some short trips to a foreign country, I won't like to waste my time
buying a prepaid SIM. And my smartphone which is my only mobile phone at
this time is good for many things without internet for a while. I can
survive for several days without internet connection if required.

Anyway it would be nice to get a service which doesn't by its own
require internet connection all the time.

[Marius Gavrilescu]

Danny D'Amico <dan...@is.invalid> writes:

> The key issue that is frustrating with OsmAnd~ is that an
> offline search for a POI is limited to <100 km.

Open OsmAnd -> Search -> Search by name. Then type the name, and press
search. It will search in a radius of 100km. Then press search again. It
will search in a radius of 1000km. Then press search again. It will
search in a radius of 5000km.

The same procedure works for the category searches. For example OsmAnd
-> Search -> Fuel. It searches in a radius of 1km. Then after tapping
Find More several times the radius becomes 2km, then 5km, then 10km,
then 20km, then 50km, then 100km, then 200km, and finally 500km.

So when you're looking for a particular POI, you can search by name and
the radius is 5000km. Which should be enough for any reasonable purpose.
--
Marius Gavrilescu

[Danny D'Amico]

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 14:09:10 +0100, Hans-Georg Michna wrote:

> Actually, let me add a third point. If you have a smartphone,
> why not have an Internet connection as well? A smartphone
> without an Internet connection is like a car without wheels, a
> pretty much useless piece of junk.

Hans-Georg's question is apropos. AT&T asked me the same question
when they forced me to have a data plan even for the unsubsidized
$100 smart phone I bought for my ten year old kid.

So I dropped AT&T. Who are they to force me to have an expensive
data plan for my kid when I don't want a data plan for my kid?

If I used the phone without data, AT&T would automatically
charge me something like $20 per month, even if I had a data block.
That would cost me, in just a few months, more than the price of
the smart phone.

So I switched to T-Mobile (a German company, I might add), who
is *wonderful* in that they don't force you to have a data plan.

If I were to add the data plan to my T-Mobile family plan, it would
cost me about $30 per month, or about $360 per year, and, guess what?

I'd rather buy a $360 smart phone and, with a bit of intelligence, it
does *everything* (almost) that I need!

Everything is a tradeoff.

PRO:
1. The reason I don't have a data plan on my T-Mobile family plan
is so that I can save about $360 per year, which is a lot of money
to me (I'm retired).

CON:
2. The disadvantage is that I need to be smarter than the next guy,
since, like iPhones tend to make people lazy, having a data plan is
clearly the *easy* solution to this problem. It takes intelligence
and effort to find a solution that still works, sans data.

I think, at the moment, we have a good set of offline contenders,
out of the more than dozen suggested offline free Android GPS mapping
applications.

[Danny D'Amico]

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 14:09:10 +0100, Hans-Georg Michna wrote:

> A smartphone without an Internet connection is like a car without wheels,
> a pretty much useless piece of junk.

That's an unimaginative statement! :)

I know what you're trying to say, which is that the Internet (not the smart
phone) has a lot of value to you no matter *where* you are; but you didn't
actually say *that*! :)

Your statement, taken alone, makes you sound like an uncreative user,
and, since you're on the satnav newsgroup, I *know* you're not!

So, allow me to exclaim that a smartphone is perfectly useful even without
a data plan. It's simply like a car with a broken radio antenna. The entire
car works just fine; it just needs to be close to the radio station in order
to get the latest news.

For example, even without a data plan, all smartphones work just fine.
They play games. They calculate stuff. They take pictures. etc. And, when
on WiFi (which they all can do and almost everyone has access to nowadays),
they're actually more powerful (faster anyway) than when on a data plan.

So, smartphones are perfectly powerful without a data plan, except to
the unimaginative few or for those who can't find a wifi connection.

More to the point, even without wifi or data, smartphones easily track where
you are on a map just perfectly fine (assuming they have GPS, which most do).
The only thing they need extra is to ROUTE to where you want to go.

And, for that, all they need is to download maps when they're on a wifi
connection. Once the maps and POIs are downloaded (whether they be
open-source, Google, TomTom, Telenav, etc) maps, they're "on" the smartphone.

You probably don't remember the olden days, with the StreetPilot III, but, in
those days, we had 8MB (or was it 32MB) proprietary memory cards where we had
to download sections of maps in order to route to POIs. Nobody said a Garmin
StreetPilot III was a useless as a car without wheels in those days.

We weren't unimaginative then; and we're not unimaginative now.
A smartphone is perfectly powerful without a data plan - you just have to
be smarter to get what you need than an iPhone user with a data plan is.

That shouldn't be all that difficult though ... :)

Note: The iPhone user analogy is just a joke!

[Danny D'Amico]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 08:56:37 +0200, Marius Gavrilescu wrote:

> Then press search again.

Aurgggh! I see! I see! It was all so easy, if I only knew.
It even makes sense, once you know the use model!

You press search (it searches 100 km).
You press search again (it searches 1,000 km).
Again you press search (it's now 5,000 km).

Of course, being a Gringo, I have no idea what 1,000 km is in the
real world, but, I do remember 5 miles is 8 kilometers, and, more
to the metric, 60 miles per hour is 100 km per hour, so, I guess
1,000 km and 5,000 km are roughly 600 miles & 3,000 miles respectively.

> The same procedure works for the category searches. For example OsmAnd
> -> Search -> Fuel. It searches in a radius of 1km. Then after tapping
> Find More several times the radius becomes 2km, then 5km, then 10km,
> then 20km, then 50km, then 100km, then 200km, and finally 500km.

Now it all makes sense! Thanks.

NOTE: What would be nice is if we get five or six people who use the
top five or six freeware apps to fill out a sheet that I can write
which tests basic things like this.

[Danny D'Amico]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 18:35:09 +0100, Heinrich Pfeifer wrote:

> Anyway it would be nice to get a service which doesn't by its own
> require internet connection all the time.

You *can* travel on a smartphone without any SIM card at all, and
still have perfectly good GPS routing, tracking, and navigation.

This is useful when you're going from country to country, for
example.

You just have to be more imaginative than the average data user!
:)

Here is my quick summary of the suggested map apps, to date:
(Note: I welcome corrections as the goal is a good map app for all!)

Suggested Freeware Offline GPS Map/Routing/Tracking Applications on Android:
1. F-Droid: OsmAnd~, v1.5-ARM (X-86 & MIPS builds exist)
https://f-droid.org/repository/browse/?fdfilter=osmand~&fdid=net.osmand.plus
Note: This freeware is the most powerful; but it's rusty.
2. MapFactor: Navigator, v1.0.35
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mapfactor.navigator&hl=en
Note: Powerful freeware; but doesn't speak the road names.
3. Aponia: Be-On-Road, v3.9.26239
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=cz.aponia.bor3
Note: Powerful freeware; but uses OSM maps so they're not as complete yet.
4. Google: Maps, v7.4.0
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.apps.maps
Note: Most accurate maps, but, must cache tiles; no POIs; no offline search;
5. Geolife: NavFree USA, v2.1.17
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.navfree.android.OSM.USA
Note: Powerful freeware; but uses OSM maps so they're not as complete yet.
6. Alk: CoPilot GPS free,
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.alk.copilot.mapviewer
Note: Powerful app; has phone numbers; clean interface.
7. Google Play: OsmAnd, v1.6.5
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.osmand
Note: 10-map limit; use OsmAnd~ freeware instead.

Free Android apps that FAILED for offline GPS mapping + routing + tracking:
8. Google: My Tracks, v2.0.5
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.maps.mytracks
Note: Tracks beautifully onto an accurate Google map; does not route.
9. Asamm: Locus Free, v2.17.2
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=menion.android.locus
Note: Tracks beautifully onto a USGS topo map; does not route without net.
10. Atlogis: US Topo Maps free, v1.1.0
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.atlogis.northamerica.free
Note: Tracks beautifully onto a USGS topo map; does not route.
11. Telenav: Scout, v1.6.1.7610003
Note: Complains "Unable to reach server"
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.telenav.app.android.scout_us
12. Sygic: GPS, v13.2.2
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sygic.aura
Note: Complains "Unable to reach server"
13. 66: Navigate 6, v5.13.46.DB3B2C1.73F9DB5
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.route66.maps5
Note: Uses TomTom maps; complains about wanting money to route.

[Danny D'Amico]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 19:36:31 +0000, Danny D'Amico wrote:

> A smartphone is perfectly powerful without a data plan - you just have to
> be smarter to get what you need than an iPhone user with a data plan is.

Here is a list of the *offline* GPS navigation Android *freeware* tested
in the past couple of days, thanks to all the suggestions.

NOTE: Corrections and improvements are *always* welcome!

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.telenav.app.android.scout_us

Note: Complains "Unable to reach server"

12. Sygic: GPS, v13.2.2
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sygic.aura
Note: Complains "Unable to reach server"
13. 66: Navigate 6, v5.13.46.DB3B2C1.73F9DB5
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.route66.maps5

Note: Uses TomTom maps; routing is not free & maps time out in 30 days
============================================================================

[Danny D'Amico]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 16:23:24 -0500, tlvp wrote:

>> I can only choose between "Building" and "Intersecting street".
>> Where can I find this easily overlooked tick-box?
>

> If you're given that choice, you've *found* the (evidently not so)
> easily overlooked tick-box . Cheers, -- tlvp

Ah. I see where the confusion lies.
That tickbox is readily apparent.
It just doesn't work.

What I mean is that everyone will hit "Building" (versus "Intersection"),
simply because, as stated, we almost certainly don't know the intersection.

But, we *do* usually know the building number, e.g.,
1000 Main Street

I had never heard of OSM maps before, but, I'm beginning to think that there
aren't *any* numerical street destinations until or unless someone actually
*enters* them into the OSM database.

If that suspicion is true, it does us no good whatsoever to try to search for
a building number (e.g., 1,000 in my example), if that building number hasn't
been previously entered into the database.

So, if that assumption is true, the *real* problem isn't the settings, but,
it's the lack of the information in the database.

QUESTION: Does anyone know if that assumption has any merit?

[Marius Gavrilescu]

Danny D'Amico <dan...@is.invalid> writes:

> I had never heard of OSM maps before, but, I'm beginning to think that there
> aren't *any* numerical street destinations until or unless someone actually
> *enters* them into the OSM database.
>
> If that suspicion is true, it does us no good whatsoever to try to search for
> a building number (e.g., 1,000 in my example), if that building number hasn't
> been previously entered into the database.
>
> So, if that assumption is true, the *real* problem isn't the settings, but,
> it's the lack of the information in the database.
>
> QUESTION: Does anyone know if that assumption has any merit?

Yes, this assumption is correct.
--
Marius Gavrilescu

[Danny D'Amico]

On Tue, 19 Nov 2013 07:14:04 +0200, Marius Gavrilescu wrote:

>> So, if that assumption is true, the *real* problem isn't the settings, but,

>> it's the lack of the information in the OSM database.

>
> Yes, this assumption is correct.

Wow. OK. Well, then. That changes things. A lot.

Based on the few lookups I made in California on the OSM maps, I'd
conclude the maps themselves (including POIs) are in a very early
"beta" stage (I might even call the database "alpha").

Point is, there are a *lot* of street addresses missing.

In fact, on a street which must have literally many thousands of buildings,
only two showed up in my first search. That confused me until you confirmed
my suspicion above.

At least your confirmation explains what's going on. It also means
that we have no hope, in the short term, of finding random addresses
by their street address. At least not in California.

So, that changes the entire use model, at least with respect to
entering in desired destinations.

Pretty much, we'll want to enter in desired locations by cross
referencing with another mapping program (most likely online Google
maps), and, then, typing the GPS coordinates as the destination
address in the routing software that uses OSM maps.

Or, as has been suggested, we can find the cross street in online
Google maps, and then we can enter in the intersection into the
OSM map.

Given this revelation, it seems that we need to revise our expectations
as to what we can do with the nascent OSM map databases.

[Danny D'Amico]

On Tue, 19 Nov 2013 06:28:40 +0000, Danny D'Amico wrote:

> Given this revelation, it seems that we need to revise our expectations
> as to what we can do with the nascent OSM map databases.

Given this, it's important to determine which suggested applications
are hindered by the OSM databases' lack of detailed building information.

Here's my first pass at trying to figure out *what* maps they use:

1. F-Droid: OsmAnd~, v1.5-ARM (X-86 & MIPS builds exist)

Uses OSM maps.
2. MapFactor: Navigator, v1.0.35
Uses OSM maps
3. Aponia: Be-On-Road, v3.9.26239
Uses OSM maps (also uses NAVTEQ Maps but they're not free)
4. Google: Maps, v7.4.0
Dunno, but I assume it uses proprietary Google maps.

5. Geolife: NavFree USA, v2.1.17

Uses OSM maps

6. Alk: CoPilot GPS free,

I think it uses Navteq maps (but I'm not sure)

So, out of the top six Android freeware offline gps navigation apps,
it looks like five of them are using the nascent OSM maps by default.

Given that revelation, one *offline* method of locating a building
destination by street address (e.g., 1000 main street), would be to
locate it using CoPilot (which I think uses Navteq map data).

Once the address is located, one may route with CoPilot, or, since
CoPilot freeware is actually crippled somewhat, one can try to
obtain the GPS coordinates offline from CoPilot and enter those
coordinates as the destination in any of the OSM-based programs.

Or, one can obtain the nearest cross street, again, using offline
CoPilot, and then enter that cross street into the OSM-based map.

[Danny D'Amico]

On Tue, 19 Nov 2013 06:57:17 +0000, Danny D'Amico wrote:

> Once the address is located, one may route with CoPilot, or, since
> CoPilot freeware is actually crippled somewhat, one can try to
> obtain the GPS coordinates offline from CoPilot and enter those
> coordinates as the destination in any of the OSM-based programs.

Drat. I can't seem to get GPS coordinates out of the freeware CoPilot!
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.alk.copilot.mapviewer

Given a point on the Navteq map in the freeware CoPilot ...
Q: Do you know how to spit out the GPS coordinates for that point?

[Danny D'Amico]

On Tue, 19 Nov 2013 07:07:10 +0000, Danny D'Amico wrote:

> Drat. I can't seem to get GPS coordinates out of the freeware CoPilot!
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.alk.copilot.mapviewer
>
> Given a point on the Navteq map in the freeware CoPilot ...
> Q: Do you know how to spit out the GPS coordinates for that point?

I can not figure out how to get the GPS coordinates of the *destination*
in CoPilot! :(

Can you?

Here's the best I can get:

1. Start CoPilot GPS free, version 9.5.0.400
2. Open the "Main Menu", which will have 5 B&W icons on the bottom:
a. Go To (flag icon)
b. Route (dotted line icon)
c. My CoPilot (id card icon)
d. Settings (two gears icon)
e. More (three dots icon)
3. Press the "Settings" icon (the 4th icon)
4. Select "Map Display"
5. Select "Location Info Display"
6. Select information to display the 6 choices, which are:
a. None
b. Current Road
c. Destination
d. Nearest Town
e. Heading
f. Lat/Long
7. Set the 6th choice, which is:
f. Location Info Display = Lat/Long

But, even with this, I can't seem to get the GPS coordinates to show
for the starting or stopping point.

The only GPS coordinates I can read are those of the current position.

Sigh. Can you help get the GPS coordinates out of CoPilot?

[M.L.]

>Luckily, as this thread shows, there are plenty of freeware offline
>mapping applications, such as these, which are in my top three after
>quick tests:
>1. (F-Droid) OsmAnd~ (un-crippled version)
>2. MapFactor Navigator (uses OSM maps)
>3. Aponia Be-On-Road (uses OSM maps or payware maps)
>
>Dropped off my top-three list after an initial test:
>a. Google Maps (best maps for accuracy!)
>b. NavFree USA (uses OSM maps)
>c. CoPilot free (proprietary maps?)

CoPilot uses Navteq maps.

[M.L.]

>Free Android apps that FAILED for offline GPS mapping + routing + tracking:

>12. Sygic: GPS, v13.2.2
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sygic.aura
> Note: Complains "Unable to reach server"

7 day trial according to Google Play.

[nob...@nada.com]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 19:20:44 +0000 (UTC), Danny D'Amico
<dan...@is.invalid> wrote:

>On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 14:09:10 +0100, Hans-Georg Michna wrote:
>
>> Actually, let me add a third point. If you have a smartphone,
>> why not have an Internet connection as well? A smartphone
>> without an Internet connection is like a car without wheels, a
>> pretty much useless piece of junk.

A smartphone without a data plan is like a iPod that does voice and
text. Sounds liek a good compromise to me. In fact my wife has a HTC
Incredible on the PagePlus standard plan. She can read books at the
doctors office and a lot of other things using apps and data stored on
tehphone, even without a wifi connection. And it costs us about $30-45
a year.

[mike]

I loaded MapFactor on my windows PDA.
I was initially put off by lack of spoken street names, but got over it.
I took off on the bicycle and tried to confuse it. It rerouted
me thru bike paths as advertised. On one bike path, the route
correctly calculated left, but the voice said, "turn right"...but
all in all, it was competent.
Was also competent at POI's.
I found several places where two streets had been joined in the past
decade. The map showed the connection, but it wouldn't route thru it.
If you know where you're going on the map, and can find it, I like it.

But if all you have is a street address, I agree, it's worthless.
Around here, many streets are not through streets. And the addresses
seem to be randomly assigned. It seems that one town was laid out
using magnetic north. The adjacent town used true north.
At the intersection, it's quite a mess numerically.
If you don't get to the right segment,
you can't get there from here.

It's worth having for the price...free. But I won't be deleting
Mapopolis.

Maps maintained by the "community" are not likely to cut it.
People like to FINISH stuff for their own satisfaction.
If the best your effort can manage is to patch up .00001%,
I think they don't bother.

But, at the macro level, I'm impressed.