Is there a non Google freeware traffic app

[Arlen Holder]

*Is there a non Google freeware privacy-enabled traffic app?*

On another thread, we discussed many ways to be more private when using
Google apps, particularly when using the Google Map app (e.g., cache the
maps and then use them offline without ever logging into Google).
o Does anyone know how or if Google associates your identity with your Google Map navigation activities?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/uk.telecom.mobile/qHy3tVLR3hg>

In that thread, the astute reader will note that Google Maps excels in
o Map accuracy
o Address lookup
o Spoken lane-by-lane turn-by-turn directions with road names (that's 4 things)
o Traffic

The astute reader will note that address lookup can be scraped anonymously
off the Google map database (e.g., addresstogps apps) and that once you
have that address accuracy, almost any freeware map app (e.g., Mapfactor
Navigator) will give decent enough accuracy on spoken-turn
spoken-streetname directions.

Hence, the astute reader will note that the only "hard" part is the
excellent traffic reports that Google Maps provides in real time.

Hence, the question of this thread:
*Is there a non Google freeware privacy-enabled traffic app?
--
Note: The non-Google freeware traffic app must _not_ require a login of any
kind, as that defeats the purpose.

[MissRiaElaine]

On 05/02/2020 18:12, Arlen Holder wrote:
> *Is there a non Google freeware privacy-enabled traffic app?*

No idea and care even less. I use a standalone Garmin satnav. No google
or anything else involved.

--
Ria in Aberdeen

[Send address is invalid, use sipsoup at gmail dot com to reply direct]

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on Wed, 5 Feb 2020 18:12:23 -0000 (UTC), Arlen

Holder <arlen.geo...@is.invalid> wrote:

>*Is there a non Google freeware privacy-enabled traffic app?*
>
>On another thread, we discussed many ways to be more private when using
>Google apps, particularly when using the Google Map app (e.g., cache the
>maps and then use them offline without ever logging into Google).
>o Does anyone know how or if Google associates your identity with your Google Map navigation activities?
><https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/uk.telecom.mobile/qHy3tVLR3hg>
>
>In that thread, the astute reader will note that Google Maps excels in
>o Map accuracy
>o Address lookup
>o Spoken lane-by-lane turn-by-turn directions with road names (that's 4 things)
>o Traffic
>
>The astute reader will note that address lookup can be scraped anonymously
>off the Google map database (e.g., addresstogps apps) and that once you
>have that address accuracy, almost any freeware map app (e.g., Mapfactor
>Navigator) will give decent enough accuracy on spoken-turn
>spoken-streetname directions.
>
>Hence, the astute reader will note that the only "hard" part is the

I guess I'm not astute.

I'd better stick to google.

[sms]

On 2/5/2020 2:30 PM, micky wrote:
<snip>

>> Hence, the astute reader will note that the only "hard" part is the
>
> I guess I'm not astute.
>
> I'd better stick to google.

LOL, the utility of Waze and Google Maps depends on the crowd-sourced
traffic data. You can pay for Active Traffic on CoPilot, but that
eliminates the "free" part of the question.

[Arlen Holder]

On Wed, 5 Feb 2020 22:00:54 -0800, sms wrote:

> LOL, the utility of Waze and Google Maps depends on the crowd-sourced
> traffic data. You can pay for Active Traffic on CoPilot, but that
> eliminates the "free" part of the question.

Hi Steve,

You're the only adult who posted so far (the rest were children who only
posted negative value, as they always do), where I wonder what exists, even
in payware, for traffic?

Did you mention pretty much _all_ the possible traffic options just now?
1. *Google Maps traffic* (now seems to require a login)
2. *Waze traffic* (requires a login)
3. *CoPilot Active Traffic* (requires an account plus CC information)

Is there _any_ other Android traffic option that anyone knows of?
--
Usenet is a great way to get ideas that are tested among astute adults.

[AnthonyL]

On Wed, 5 Feb 2020 21:12:40 +0000, MissRiaElaine
<thisad...@invalid.com> wrote:

>On 05/02/2020 18:12, Arlen Holder wrote:
>> *Is there a non Google freeware privacy-enabled traffic app?*
>
>No idea and care even less. I use a standalone Garmin satnav. No google
>or anything else involved.
>

I loved my Garmin and it's map updates, simple, go via a route. Then
it became obsolete so no more map updates for that model range.

I'll never buy a dedicated Satnav again.


--
AnthonyL

Why do scientists need to BELIEVE in anything?

[AnthonyL]

On Wed, 5 Feb 2020 18:12:23 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder
<arlen.geo...@is.invalid> wrote:

I user Here! but no lane information. Traffic requires internet and
isn't brilliant. Maps (worldwide by region) are fairly regularly
updated. Not sure how well privacy and Android go together but the
app works fullly off-line if traffic isn't required.

[AnthonyL]

On Wed, 5 Feb 2020 22:00:54 -0800, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:

Waze is now owned by Google :(

[MissRiaElaine]

On 06/02/2020 12:20, AnthonyL wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Feb 2020 21:12:40 +0000, MissRiaElaine
> <thisad...@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> On 05/02/2020 18:12, Arlen Holder wrote:
>>> *Is there a non Google freeware privacy-enabled traffic app?*
>>
>> No idea and care even less. I use a standalone Garmin satnav. No google
>> or anything else involved.
>
> I loved my Garmin and it's map updates, simple, go via a route. Then
> it became obsolete so no more map updates for that model range.
>
> I'll never buy a dedicated Satnav again.

Mine came with lifetime map updates and only cost a hundred quid or so
the best part of 10 years ago. Still getting updates, but even if it
does become obsolete, if I can get a similar device for a similar price,
I'll be happy.

[Jeff Layman]

On 06/02/20 13:04, MissRiaElaine wrote:
> On 06/02/2020 12:20, AnthonyL wrote:
>> On Wed, 5 Feb 2020 21:12:40 +0000, MissRiaElaine
>> <thisad...@invalid.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 05/02/2020 18:12, Arlen Holder wrote:
>>>> *Is there a non Google freeware privacy-enabled traffic app?*
>>>
>>> No idea and care even less. I use a standalone Garmin satnav. No google
>>> or anything else involved.
>>
>> I loved my Garmin and it's map updates, simple, go via a route. Then
>> it became obsolete so no more map updates for that model range.
>>
>> I'll never buy a dedicated Satnav again.
>
> Mine came with lifetime map updates and only cost a hundred quid or so
> the best part of 10 years ago. Still getting updates, but even if it
> does become obsolete, if I can get a similar device for a similar price,
> I'll be happy.

I see your OS is Linux. How do you update your Garmin? Mine only allows
updating via Windows or a Mac, and I have access to neither.

--

Jeff

[MissRiaElaine]

On 06/02/2020 18:26, Jeff Layman wrote:

> I see your OS is Linux. How do you update your Garmin? Mine only allows
> updating via Windows or a Mac, and I have access to neither.

Unfortunately I have to run up Windoze, which I maintain on a spare
machine specifically for this purpose, and also to run the programming
software for some 2-way radios that I have which won't run under Linux
either :-(

[The Real Bev]

On 02/06/2020 10:26 AM, Jeff Layman wrote:
> On 06/02/20 13:04, MissRiaElaine wrote:
>> On 06/02/2020 12:20, AnthonyL wrote:
>>> On Wed, 5 Feb 2020 21:12:40 +0000, MissRiaElaine
>>> <thisad...@invalid.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 05/02/2020 18:12, Arlen Holder wrote:
>>>>> *Is there a non Google freeware privacy-enabled traffic app?*
>>>>
>>>> No idea and care even less. I use a standalone Garmin satnav. No google
>>>> or anything else involved.
>>>
>>> I loved my Garmin and it's map updates, simple, go via a route. Then
>>> it became obsolete so no more map updates for that model range.
>>>
>>> I'll never buy a dedicated Satnav again.
>>
>> Mine came with lifetime map updates and only cost a hundred quid or so
>> the best part of 10 years ago. Still getting updates, but even if it
>> does become obsolete, if I can get a similar device for a similar price,
>> I'll be happy.

As long as I have it plugged in it tells me that there's traffic ahead
about 30 seconds after I'm caught in it. Still, since I don't have a
data plan for my phone, it's the only traffic warning I can get once I
leave the house. Unfortunately, I generally don't take it out of the
glove compartment (yeah, I know, they call them glove BOXES now, and I
even have a pair of gloves in it, but old habits die hard -- if at all)
and plug it in until too late.

> I see your OS is Linux. How do you update your Garmin? Mine only allows
> updating via Windows or a Mac, and I have access to neither.

I have a Win7 machine just for the stuff that linux can't do. Same
reason I have Chrome for stuff Firefox won't do. I hate both, but I
don't have that much choice. Well, to be precise, NONE :-(

--
Cheers, Bev
"Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity
is not thus handicapped."
-- Elbert Hubbard, American author

[Arlen Holder]

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 13:24:24 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:

> As long as I have it plugged in it tells me that there's traffic ahead
> about 30 seconds after I'm caught in it. Still, since I don't have a
> data plan for my phone, it's the only traffic warning I can get once I
> leave the house.

Hi The Real Bev,
You and I go way back over the years, where we've seen freeware solutions
to many problems that others pay money to solve.

This "free traffic" but "with privacy" seems to be a difficult one.
a. Waze requires a login
b. Google Maps now requires a login
c. CoPilot traffic requires payment (hence a login)
d. Garmin hardware seems to require payment, is that right?

Is there any free traffic that doesn't require a login?

[The Real Bev]

On 02/06/2020 03:20 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 13:24:24 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:
>
>> As long as I have it plugged in it tells me that there's traffic ahead
>> about 30 seconds after I'm caught in it. Still, since I don't have a
>> data plan for my phone, it's the only traffic warning I can get once I
>> leave the house.

It receives the info via radio transmission; the cord is the receiving
antenna. Or so Garmin says.

> Hi The Real Bev,
> You and I go way back over the years, where we've seen freeware solutions
> to many problems that others pay money to solve.
>
> This "free traffic" but "with privacy" seems to be a difficult one.
> a. Waze requires a login
> b. Google Maps now requires a login
> c. CoPilot traffic requires payment (hence a login)
> d. Garmin hardware seems to require payment, is that right?

I might have had to do some sort of login at the Garmin site in order to
update the hardware, but I really don't remember. I think I've had the
thing for maybe five years. I don't have to log in when I turn the unit
on, though.

> Is there any free traffic that doesn't require a login?

I don't really have a problem with logging in (other than remembering
the password, of course -- especially if the assholes require some
complex thing. It seems like the sites you care least about
security-wise are the ones with the nasty password requirements AND
captchas, which I can no longer see with firefox.


--
Cheers, Bev
It's not the speed that kills, it's the stopping.

[sms]

On 2/6/2020 4:20 AM, AnthonyL wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Feb 2020 21:12:40 +0000, MissRiaElaine
> <thisad...@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> On 05/02/2020 18:12, Arlen Holder wrote:
>>> *Is there a non Google freeware privacy-enabled traffic app?*
>>
>> No idea and care even less. I use a standalone Garmin satnav. No google
>> or anything else involved.
>>
>
> I loved my Garmin and it's map updates, simple, go via a route. Then
> it became obsolete so no more map updates for that model range.

It's not the map updates that are the issue. The crowd-sourced features
of Waze require a huge number of users submitting data, either passively
(based on their travel speed) or actively (submitting road hazards,
accident data, police activity, etc.)

[AnthonyL]

On Fri, 7 Feb 2020 00:23:24 -0800, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:

>On 2/6/2020 4:20 AM, AnthonyL wrote:
>> On Wed, 5 Feb 2020 21:12:40 +0000, MissRiaElaine
>> <thisad...@invalid.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 05/02/2020 18:12, Arlen Holder wrote:
>>>> *Is there a non Google freeware privacy-enabled traffic app?*
>>>
>>> No idea and care even less. I use a standalone Garmin satnav. No google
>>> or anything else involved.
>>>
>>
>> I loved my Garmin and it's map updates, simple, go via a route. Then
>> it became obsolete so no more map updates for that model range.
>
>It's not the map updates that are the issue.

It can be when the map shows you in a field and you miss the new
turning ending up joining the motorway.

>The crowd-sourced features
>of Waze require a huge number of users submitting data, either passively
>(based on their travel speed) or actively (submitting road hazards,
>accident data, police activity, etc.)

Google knows where many people are at any time, almost everyone with
an Android phone. Even when you switch location services off they
know.

The alternative, RDS often seems to show me the delay after I've been
in it for 15mins.

Poor and fragmented road traffic flow information must cost this
country a fortune. Several times a year I find myself in a hold-up
that would have taken me no effort to circumvent 5 miles earlier had I
known.

[The Real Bev]

Given the huge number of PROPER warnings about texting and driving, how
do you enter COP HERE etc. messages safely while driving? I would guess
it's not possible, but I have no data plan and can't test the system --
or even use it.

--
Cheers, Bev
"When I was in college, the only job I could get was
shitting on people's lawns. Sure, the owners complained,
but it was honest work and it kept me off welfare..."
-- M. Tabnik in mcfl (paraphrased)

[123456789]

The Real Bev wrote:

> Given the huge number of PROPER warnings about texting
> and driving, how do you enter COP HERE etc. messages
> safely while driving?

Have your passenger do it...

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on Wed, 5 Feb 2020 22:00:54 -0800, sms

I rarely care about traffic.

Most of the time I go where there is no traffic, or I have no choice of
how to go, traffic or not.

Much of the rest of the time, I take my chances and I've learned to be
patient with traffic.

Some of the rest of the remaining time, I could have benefitted by
checking the traffic but I forget.

And sometimes when I do look at traffic, it's hard to say which is the
better route.


And by the way, just to use google maps in a phone doesn't even require
a sim card or phone account. Use wifi to load the maps when near wifi,
and then the phone will show you wher you are without needing cellular
service.

My new google maps seem to expire a year from now, but the ones I
renewed expire a month from now. Go figure.

[The Real Bev]

Yeah, of course, but I can't believe that all the entries would be made
by passengers -- since most cars in LA contain only the driver.

--
Cheers, Bev
Why can't we all just get along and do things my way?

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 12:47:29 GMT, AnthonyL wrote:

> Google knows where many people are at any time, almost everyone with
> an Android phone. Even when you switch location services off they
> know.

Hi AnthonyL,

The first part is true that Google knows where "many stupid people" are.
o But Google doesn't need to know where the smart people are, IMHO.

I disagree with your second comment that it happens "even when you switch
location services off", in that, there are _other_ things you can switch
off if you're intelligent (unless you know something we don't know).

Unfortunately, most people are stupid (I need to trademark that statement
since the older I get, the more I believe the world is filled with morons
who can't even properly set up something as simple as a mobile phone).

Here are, for your purview, _my_ settings, where I ask questions of you:
Q: Is _my_ phone constantly uploading to Google my location information?
Q: Is my phone spying on my neighbors' WiFi APs, uploading them to Google?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/uk.telecom.mobile/qHy3tVLR3hg/uKIz0ju7FAAJ>

Here are settings that (a) smart & (b) polite people "should" use, IMHO:
This is for my Android Pie (Android 9) $100 Moto G7:

1. *Location* (treated exactly like your flashlight is treated):
o Settings > Security & location > Location = off
<https://i.postimg.cc/dtJjM8dT/gmap06.jpg>

2. *Scanning* (disables scanning even when the radio is turned off!):
o Settings > Security & location > Location > Advanced ...
Wi-Fi scanning = off
Bluetooth scanning = off
<https://i.postimg.cc/Hkx0nd6Y/gmap07.jpg>

3. *Google Location Accuracy* (disables upload of WiFi APs to Google???):
o Settings > Security & location > Location > Advanced > ...
o > Location services > Google Location Accuracy = off
<https://i.postimg.cc/jd8NGBtG/gmap09.jpg>

That might be all any intelligent non-rude person needs.
o In addition, not having a Google Account disables these:

4. *Google Location History* = (doesn't exist with no Google Account???)
<https://i.postimg.cc/SQdzMH2J/gmap10.jpg>

5. *Google Location Sharing* = (doesn't exist with no Google Account???)
<https://i.postimg.cc/KYt1vWhc/gmap11.jpg>

Up to you on how much you trust the ELS services button, where it likely
doesn't even work (and says so) but here it is for completeness:

6. *Emergency Location Service*
o Settings > Security & location > Location > Advanced > ...
o > Location services
*Emergency Location Service* = on/off (up to you)
<https://i.postimg.cc/sXp7qXgc/gmap08.jpg>

7. *Location Permission* (treat location like you treat the flashlight):
o Settings > Security & location > Location > Advanced > ...
o > See all
And... <https://i.postimg.cc/25vK1VZ2/gmap12.jpg>
o Settings > Security & location > Location > Advanced > ...
o > App-level permissions > (this will list all apps requesting location)
For each app that does not need location, simply turn it off.

Aw, heck.
Let's just turn off _all_ location permissions, and see what happens.
<https://i.postimg.cc/3x7RSbXB/gmap15.jpg>

Note: I play with my settings so much that often I have to factory reset.

8. *Bluetooth Device Visibility*
o Settings > Connected devices > Bluetooth > Connection preferences >
Manage your connection preferences as you wish
<https://i.postimg.cc/rFh44TX4/gmap13.jpg>

9. *App Permissions* specifically for the Google Map app:
Specifically for the Google Maps App, you can long press on the icon to get
to the app settings, where, it seems to work fine even if you don't have a
Google Account set up in the Android operating system, and it seems to work
fine if you just log into it as you would Facebook or other server; but
it's important to note for the non-lazy that Google Maps still works well
with almost all access turned off, for example:
<https://i.postimg.cc/G2f5MrSQ/gmap02.jpg>

10. *Clear cache & data* specifically for the Google Map app:
It's also important to note the Google Maps App data & cache can be cleared
simply by long pressing on the icon and pressing the button to clear them:
<https://i.postimg.cc/9Q2jtfGt/gmap01.jpg>

11. Similar to ELS, there may be "find my phone" functionality, which I
can't seem to find on my phone, but which is reputed to exist on Android
phones. (If you know where to find the app on the phone, let me know.)

12. *Contacts" permission (use it like a flashlight)
o Settings > Apps & notifications > Advanced > App permissions > Contacts
<https://i.postimg.cc/SxcbYyHQ/gmap14.jpg>

Aw heck.

Since I don't have a Google Account set up on the phone anyway, and since I
don't use the default contacts storage location anyway, I don't think _any_
app needs contacts, as far as I can tell; so I turned them _all_ off and
will see what happens over time.
<https://i.postimg.cc/WzGV0THP/gmap16.jpg>

Note: I use SimpleMobileTools Contacts & PulseSMS for phone/contacts & SMS.
o <https://www.simplemobiletools.com>
o <https://messenger.klinkerapps.com/overview/>
Neither of which seems to require the default contacts location to work.

Note: AFAIK, my _default_ SQLite3 contacts storage location is empty so as
to keep Google out of my contacts as much as is possible:
o </data/data/com.android.providers.contacts/databases/contacts.db>
o </data/data/com.motorola.blur.providers.contacts/databases/contacts2.db>

What else of the basic privacy settings did we miss?
--
Note: If people set up their phone for privacy, IMHO, they're not only
stupid but worse, they're _rude_ since they're constantly uploading their
neighbors' wifi information to Google, needlessly (just because they're too
stupid to turn off wifi scanning, for example).

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 11:49:13 -0500, micky wrote:

> And by the way, just to use google maps in a phone doesn't even require
> a sim card or phone account. Use wifi to load the maps when near wifi,
> and then the phone will show you wher you are without needing cellular
> service.

Downloading Google Map tiles used to work without needing a login, but mine
needs a login now to download the map tiles.

Note: I do not need a login to _cache_ the map tiles; but I need a login to
download those map tiles.

Does anyone else have information on that possibility that you now need to
log into the Google Maps App just to download the map tiles?

--
Usenet allows us to combine our tricks & knowledge to help more people!

[Arlen Holder]

On Thu, 06 Feb 2020 12:23:31 GMT, AnthonyL wrote:

> I user Here! but no lane information. Traffic requires internet and
> isn't brilliant. Maps (worldwide by region) are fairly regularly
> updated. Not sure how well privacy and Android go together but the
> app works fullly off-line if traffic isn't required.

Thanks for that information about "Here!" having offline routing and online
traffic (I think all traffic _must_ be online, by its very nature).

As I am wont to do, I've been _testing all the viable suggestions_ for
traffic functionality; but I can't find this "Here!" app you mentioned.

A lot of times people mention app names by what they display, which isn't
even close to what the actual app names end up being, which makes it harder
for others to _find_ those apps, without a unique name of some sort.

I had tested Here! in the past, but I didn't find it on Google Play or
F-droid just now in a search for just "Here!"...
o <https://play.google.com/store/search?q=here!>
o <https://search.f-droid.org/?q=here%21>

Did they change the name?

For example, is it called "Here Maps" now?
<https://www.topbestalternatives.com/here-maps/>

Or maybe "Here We Go"?
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.here.app.maps>

Does anyone have a Google Play URL to this reputed "Here!" maps app?
--
Together we can accomplish far more than we ever can do by ourselves.

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 7 Feb 2020 07:51:39 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:

> Given the huge number of PROPER warnings about texting and driving, how
> do you enter COP HERE etc. messages safely while driving? I would guess
> it's not possible, but I have no data plan and can't test the system --
> or even use it.

Hi The Real Bev,

This is partially off topic, since you were asking how to mark a speed
trap, which is certainly doable as I've seen those warnings in Google Maps
(not Waze, but in the Google Map App, which was a surprise to me).

Since you know I don't bullshit, and since you know that my belief system
is based on facts as I comprehend them, my off topic concern is that I
should mention that it's total bullshit what a _lot_ of people believe,
which is that they believe cellphone ownership contributes to the accident
rate.

Notice that we only know ownership, as we really don't know "usage", but we
can assume that usage while driving tracks ownership in some way, so that
statement _also_ says that cell phone usage while driving has no measurable
effect whatsoever on the accident rate. Period. That's just a fact that the
_reliable_ US (and Australia, as it turns out) accident statistics easily
show, and which the three entities that _love_ to claim otherwise will fume
about (insurance companies, police, and lawyers).

Also notice I said accident _rates_, since yearly accident events change
depending on the number of miles driven, the weather, the economy, etc.

Notice one clear fact, which is that accident rates have been trending
downward in the USA for _every_ state, irrespective of cellphone ownership
rates and regardless of laws and enforcement of those laws.

As another related aside, all known "safety" laws in the USA have had
_zero_ first order effects on "safety", which has been proven in detailed
macro assemblage studies of all studies. (There's only 1 known significant
second-order effect, and it's _not_ on accidents; it's on the length of a
hospital stay _after_ the accident, and those laws include seatbelt laws).

You know I don't bullshit, The Real Bev, so rest assured I'm well aware
that every moron out there thinks otherwise, but I simply ask them to
provide a reliable statistic that is _not_ from the three entities that
shill for the cellphone laws, namely the police, the insurance companies,
and the lawyers.

I'm also extremely well aware of what I'll call "in vitro" studies, as
opposed to "in vivo" studies, which prove almost anything that you want to
prove, where, if those studies were true, then the accident rate would have
skyrocketed at the same rate as cellphone ownership (and presumed usage).

And yet, the accident rate steadily declines, with or without cellphones
existing.

PS: Of all modern countries, the UK seems odd in that they still believe
that cellphone ownership numbers (and hence, use while driving) causes
accidents, and yet, they don't have any statistics to prove what they
believe to be true (Australia at least is sane that way).

BTW, there's a _reason_ cellphone use does not measurably increase the
accident rate; but most people can't believe the facts so there's no sense
in covering the rational for why the facts are the facts that they are.
--
This has been a factual PSA where I realize all morons will disagree but
they can't even provide a _single_ reliable fact backing up their
disagreement that isn't from police, lawyers, or insurance companies.

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on Fri, 7 Feb 2020 21:02:44 -0000 (UTC), Arlen

Holder <arlen.geo...@is.invalid> wrote:

>On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 11:49:13 -0500, micky wrote:
>
>> And by the way, just to use google maps in a phone doesn't even require
>> a sim card or phone account. Use wifi to load the maps when near wifi,
>> and then the phone will show you wher you are without needing cellular
>> service.
>
>Downloading Google Map tiles used to work without needing a login, but mine
>needs a login now to download the map tiles.

I can't tell because I think it logs me into google automatically.

But you still don't need an account with a cellular company. Very
useful when you're outside the USA (or whatever country you live in) and
have no data or roaming data is expensive in other countries (I've never
tried to use data from the US when I'm in another country. I do get a
sim card because my trips have been long, but if going for a few days it
might not be worth it.) And the day you arrive you might not have one
even if you plan to get one. Google maps works anyhow to show location,
and probably to show directions, but not traffic.

[AnthonyL]

On Fri, 7 Feb 2020 21:02:43 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder
<arlen.geo...@is.invalid> wrote:

>On Thu, 06 Feb 2020 12:23:31 GMT, AnthonyL wrote:
>
>> I user Here! but no lane information. Traffic requires internet and
>> isn't brilliant. Maps (worldwide by region) are fairly regularly
>> updated. Not sure how well privacy and Android go together but the
>> app works fullly off-line if traffic isn't required.
>
>Thanks for that information about "Here!" having offline routing and online
>traffic (I think all traffic _must_ be online, by its very nature).
>

Not necessarily, there is RDC/TMC which my old Garmin used, comes over
an FM radio signal.

>As I am wont to do, I've been _testing all the viable suggestions_ for
>traffic functionality; but I can't find this "Here!" app you mentioned.
>
>A lot of times people mention app names by what they display, which isn't
>even close to what the actual app names end up being, which makes it harder
>for others to _find_ those apps, without a unique name of some sort.
>
>I had tested Here! in the past, but I didn't find it on Google Play or
>F-droid just now in a search for just "Here!"...
>o <https://play.google.com/store/search?q=here!>
>o <https://search.f-droid.org/?q=here%21>
>
>Did they change the name?
>
>For example, is it called "Here Maps" now?
><https://www.topbestalternatives.com/here-maps/>
>
>Or maybe "Here We Go"?
><https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.here.app.maps>

That's the one, Here We Go.

>
>Does anyone have a Google Play URL to this reputed "Here!" maps app?

As above though I get it from Play Store.

Note that if you have an SD card the maps can be stored there.

[sms]

On 2/7/2020 7:51 AM, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 02/07/2020 12:23 AM, sms wrote:
>> On 2/6/2020 4:20 AM, AnthonyL wrote:
>>> On Wed, 5 Feb 2020 21:12:40 +0000, MissRiaElaine
>>> <thisad...@invalid.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 05/02/2020 18:12, Arlen Holder wrote:
>>>>> *Is there a non Google freeware privacy-enabled traffic app?*
>>>>
>>>> No idea and care even less. I use a standalone Garmin satnav. No google
>>>> or anything else involved.
>>>
>>> I loved my Garmin and it's map updates, simple, go via a route.  Then
>>> it became obsolete so no more map updates for that model range.
>>
>> It's not the map updates that are the issue. The crowd-sourced features
>> of Waze require a huge number of users submitting data, either passively
>> (based on their travel speed) or actively (submitting road hazards,
>> accident data, police activity, etc.)
>
> Given the huge number of PROPER warnings about texting and driving, how
> do you enter COP HERE etc. messages safely while driving?  I would guess
> it's not possible, but I have no data plan and can't test the system --
> or even use it.

You don't use text messages, you tap an icon.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 08 Feb 2020 13:36:08 GMT, AnthonyL wrote:

>>Thanks for that information about "Here!" having offline routing and online
>>traffic (I think all traffic _must_ be online, by its very nature).
> Not necessarily, there is RDC/TMC which my old Garmin used, comes over
> an FM radio signal.

I've had all three of the basic GPS solutions in the past, e.g.,
a. I had the laptop on my lap with the copilot & delorme dots on top of th
dash (sometimes even with an external antenna on the roof)
b. I then "graduated" to the StreetPilotIII and those horridly expensive
"flash cards" (remember them?) using their horrid downloading software on a
computer to populate with maps that couldn't cover even the smallest state.
c. Then I graduated to the dash mount nuvi's and Magellan (hated that
magellan) where some cost as much as $1,000 with the Euro maps, etc.
d. Then I did everything offline 'cuz I didn't have a data plan
e. And then once data became essentially free, I use what I use now.

I've written many reviews of map software over the years under so many
pseudonyms I can't remember which ones I used but you can recognize my
tutorials and map reviews almost instantly because I don't change my style.

Since roadmaps are relatively easy, I mostly did offline mapping, where,
unfortunately, the OSM maps suck so badly on accuracy that they're
fundamentally useless for the kinds of back country of the Santa Cruz
Mountains where I live. Luckily the USGS maps are perfect, so I wrote
reviews on how to create your own tracks, how to set coordinates on a PDF
map (e.g., one that is decades old), how to route backcountry (e.g., head
at 260 degrees for fifty feet), etc.

I just googled for my tutorials and found this as the first hit, for
example, where my "style" is instantly obvious to anyone:
o *My test of freeware Android offline GPS navigation applications*
<https://androidforums.com/threads/my-test-of-freeware-android-offline-gps-navigation-applications.806872/>

Anyway, I know the garmin traffic is not technically "online" (although, in
all likelihood, it is), where some of my devices in the past came with free
traffic, and, as I recall, much larger adapters to plug into the cigarette
lighter socket (as I recall).

>>Or maybe "Here We Go"?
>><https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.here.app.maps>
>
> That's the one, Here We Go.

Thanks. I'll check out "Here We Go" then, to add to the ones I already have
added, e.g., OSMAnd~ (my favorite), MapFactor Navigator, Navmmii USA,
CoPilot GPS, and Sygic, all of which I've tested years ago, but not
recently (e.g., I recently tested ZANavi, and it still sucks).

Hm. I just noticed "Here We Go" is called "Here We Go City Navigation",
which seems to only be for cities (e.g., taxi and bus transportation):
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.here.app.maps?

There's also Maps.ME which I remember flunking long ago, but I don't
remember the details:
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mapswithme.maps.pro>

>>Does anyone have a Google Play URL to this reputed "Here!" maps app?
> As above though I get it from Play Store.

That URL is a play store URL, where the Aurora Store anonymously scrapes
the Google Play store, so the apps are exactly the same thing.

I use Aurora because it allows me to not have a Google Account set up on
the Android phone OS, and still have complete access to the Google Play
store (which is something you can't do on iOS, and those iOS dumb blokes
don't even realize what privacy functionality they're missing on iOS). :)

> Note that if you have an SD card the maps can be stored there.

Yup. I store all the maps on the sd card also, as I download a lot of the
USGS maps for backcountry hiking off trails in mountainous country.

Cities aren't my shtick so I suspect the Here We Go will flunk my tests,
but I'll test it out anyway.
--
When people purposefully help each other on the Usenet potluck, we all win.

[sms]

On 2/7/2020 10:00 AM, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 02/07/2020 08:37 AM, 123456789 wrote:
>> The Real Bev wrote:
>>
>>> Given the huge number of PROPER warnings about texting
>>> and driving, how do you enter COP HERE etc. messages
>>> safely while driving?
>>
>> Have your passenger do it...
>
> Yeah, of course, but I can't believe that all the entries would be made
> by passengers -- since most cars in LA contain only the driver.

There is no texting involved. There is a screen where you tap an icon to
indicate the issue (Stopped car, accident, police, pothole, object,
etc.). Here's how it looks: <https://tinyurl.com/wazeiconscreen>.

It can be on your phone, or on your vehicle's screen if the vehicle is
equipped with Android Auto or Apple CarPlay.

In urban areas like Los Angeles and the Bay Area Waze is exceptionally
useful in choosing the shortest route (by time). I.e., going through
L.A. on the way to San Diego, invariably the fastest route is not the
shortest route.

And Waze is also very annoying to cities because it will direct traffic
off of freeways and major arterials and on to residential streets.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 8 Feb 2020 09:59:25 -0800, sms wrote:

> You don't use text messages, you tap an icon.

Steve,

I was recently in Google Maps (not Waze!), and, as I recall, it _verbally_
said there was a speed trap, and lo and behold, even though speed traps are
few and far between in California (compared to east-coast states at least),
there _was_ a speed trap exactly where the Google Map app said it would be.

Does anyone have familiarity with how that's done on the _Google_ Map app?
--
Together, purposefully helpful people make Usnet the public helpdesk it is.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 8 Feb 2020 10:40:47 -0800, sms wrote:

> In urban areas like Los Angeles and the Bay Area Waze is exceptionally
> useful in choosing the shortest route (by time). I.e., going through
> L.A. on the way to San Diego, invariably the fastest route is not the
> shortest route.

As noted, cellphones do not contribute in the least either way (up or down)
to traffic accident rates, but, as Steve noted, they _do_ contribute
(greatly in some cases) to commuter efficiency (and to emergency and/or LE
response time).

> And Waze is also very annoying to cities because it will direct traffic
> off of freeways and major arterials and on to residential streets.

In some Silicon Valley towns, they've resorted to having meetings with the
Waze people, where, I'm told unofficially, they couldn't get Waze to _not_
route through residential streets.

Waze's view, as I was told, is that they will route through _legal_ routes,
so it's up to the town to make that route illegal.

The way some Silicon Valley towns handled it was to make some residential
streets one way, and to block off the entrance ramp onto the highway (they
call them 'freeways' out here, but they still have lanes that charge you
money with overhead sensors).

The good news is that when the town blocks off the entrance ramp to the
highway, the town says they call Waze ahead of time, so that it doesn't
inadvertently cause a traffic jam inside the town as people turn around.

I've been through these (generally only in the summer where I live), where
they turn around EVERYONE, not just outsiders, which they have to do in
order to be legal about it.

They do put warnings up for the townsfolk a week or two ahead of time.

But the point is all this was needed because of Waze giving people options,
which is kind of funny, as it means that people are more informed now than
ever before in terms of traffic routing.

Which, after all, is why it's important to have a privacy-enabled non-login
free traffic solution.

I don't think a free non-login traffic options exists anymore.

Hence, the next viable option is to use traffic like you use the flashlight
app, which is to say you bring up the Google Map app and log into it only
when you need traffic; and then you turn that flashlight off when you're
done.

If someone has a _better_ solution that fits the problem set, I'm all ears.

[sms]

On 2/7/2020 7:51 AM, The Real Bev wrote:

<snip>

> Given the huge number of PROPER warnings about texting and driving, how
> do you enter COP HERE etc. messages safely while driving?  I would guess
> it's not possible, but I have no data plan and can't test the system --
> or even use it.

Very sad. Plans with sufficient data for Waze are pretty cheap now
<https://www.redpocket.com/plans/ebay>.

[The Real Bev]

On 02/08/2020 10:40 AM, sms wrote:
> On 2/7/2020 10:00 AM, The Real Bev wrote:
>> On 02/07/2020 08:37 AM, 123456789 wrote:
>>> The Real Bev wrote:
>>>
>>>> Given the huge number of PROPER warnings about texting
>>>> and driving, how do you enter COP HERE etc. messages
>>>> safely while driving?
>>>
>>> Have your passenger do it...
>>
>> Yeah, of course, but I can't believe that all the entries would be made
>> by passengers -- since most cars in LA contain only the driver.
>
> There is no texting involved. There is a screen where you tap an icon to
> indicate the issue (Stopped car, accident, police, pothole, object,
> etc.). Here's how it looks: <https://tinyurl.com/wazeiconscreen>.
>
> It can be on your phone, or on your vehicle's screen if the vehicle is
> equipped with Android Auto or Apple CarPlay.

I wonder if it accepts voice. I really have a hard time identifying
pictures rapidly.

> In urban areas like Los Angeles and the Bay Area Waze is exceptionally
> useful in choosing the shortest route (by time). I.e., going through
> L.A. on the way to San Diego, invariably the fastest route is not the
> shortest route.
>
> And Waze is also very annoying to cities because it will direct traffic
> off of freeways and major arterials and on to residential streets.

The Garmin did that once. We thought Hey, maybe it's right. It dumped
us into a strange area and then abandoned us. After several miles with
no instructions we entered Home again and were routed by a particularly
stupid route.

Curiously enough, Waze just routed me through back streets to get to the
freeway even though my street IS an on-ramp 1/4 mile away. It also
wouldn't show me carpool lanes (couldn't connect to my facebook account
for some reason) and that's what I REALLY want to know about -- where
are the legal entry/exit areas for the carpool lanes.

It wants to know who I am and my phone number. No. I'm willing to give
my email account and location, but NOT a phone number. NOBODY gets my
cell number except friends and relatives.

OK, I gave them a phony number and used a google account. I don't want
to set up a regular commute. I just want to know about the carpool
exits between here and my destination. I'm sure this thing is valuable
to a lot of people, but not to me. Too bad. Google off-line maps will
have to do, with the destination set while I still have wifi at home.

I used to like Osmand, but they changed the UI so much that I no longer
want to use it. Moreover, it's a real battery hog. Co-Pilot doesn't
seem to have any advantages over google maps.


--
Cheers, Bev
It doesn't matter who you vote for, the government always gets in.

[The Real Bev]

I'm pissed at them, as well as Freedompop. We had two 'foreverr free'
Freedompop devices which provided tiny amounts of data for free.
Perfect. Only need a tiny amount per YEAR. And then they sold off some
part of their operation to Red Pocket and 'forever' became 'never'. Not
worth even $10/month for data. $10/year for phone via T-Mobile is just
fine.

BUT Freedompop is still selling devices with FREE air/data/text. But
not for former customers, apparently. You have to pay to talk to
customer service. I regard both companies as scam artists now.

I really liked the little $20 hotspot. Only used it twice in a couple
of years, so it's not like I was abusing their generosity.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 8 Feb 2020 13:33:46 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:

> I'm pissed at them, as well as Freedompop.

Are you in the USA?
Do you pay more or less than about $20 to $25 per line?

Google Fi and T-Mobile are around that price where I get 4GB of "free" data
every month and never use more than a few kilobytes of it.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 8 Feb 2020 13:25:38 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:

> OK, I gave them a phony number

Some sites accept 2ndline or TextNow type phone numbers if you need them to
text a pin code to a real phone number.

Then after a few weeks of not using that number, you lose the number, and
someone _else_ gets all the robo calls your signup enabled!

Those free apps will give you a _new_ number the _next_ time some site
wants to text you a confirmation code.

Ask me how I know...

[The Real Bev]

On 02/08/2020 06:17 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Feb 2020 13:33:46 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:
>
>> I'm pissed at them, as well as Freedompop.
>
> Are you in the USA?
> Do you pay more or less than about $20 to $25 per line?

Yes. Grandfathered prepaid $10/year account which gives me ~30 minutes
of air time. Texts are a dime and photos are a quarter. I can buy more
time if I want it as long as I buy some amount of time once a year.
This is sufficient. I mostly use the camera and transfer the photos via
wifi. There's no way I could justify blowing $25/month on what I do.

> Google Fi and T-Mobile are around that price where I get 4GB of "free" data
> every month and never use more than a few kilobytes of it.

I'd buy a few GB of data if it never expired. I just don't need to
communicate all that much.

[The Real Bev]

On 02/08/2020 06:18 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Feb 2020 13:25:38 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:
>
>> OK, I gave them a phony number
>
> Some sites accept 2ndline or TextNow type phone numbers if you need them to
> text a pin code to a real phone number.

Good to know. BUT TextNow gives me a "something's wrong try later"
message and 2ndLine is on some spam list that won't let me connect
without turning off adblockers etc. I'll try TN later.

> Then after a few weeks of not using that number, you lose the number, and
> someone _else_ gets all the robo calls your signup enabled!
>
> Those free apps will give you a _new_ number the _next_ time some site
> wants to text you a confirmation code.
>
> Ask me how I know...

:-)

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 8 Feb 2020 22:24:33 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:

> Good to know. BUT TextNow gives me a "something's wrong try later"
> message and 2ndLine is on some spam list that won't let me connect
> without turning off adblockers etc. I'll try TN later.

I use 'em both, but I think they're the same company now.

Even so, you get two new different phone numbers to use for signups.
And, if you don't use 'em, they disappear, which is just fine by me.

Good luck with whatever is giving you that "somethings' wrong", where I
used both today and they both worked for me, but I don't know why they're
not working for you.

The work fine on either WiFi or cellular data, but I mostly use 'em on
WiFi.

[AnthonyL]

On Sat, 8 Feb 2020 18:38:48 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder
<arlen.geo...@is.invalid> wrote:

>
>Cities aren't my shtick so I suspect the Here We Go will flunk my tests,
>but I'll test it out anyway.

Well it gives me worldwide maps and I have areas of Asia, and it
certainly does the UK countryside, so why they changed the name to
something stupid I have no idea.

You may wish to catch up on the history of Here We Go. It derives
from the days before Android and when Nokia were a big name. I have
to say that the full Nokia suite, linking the phone to the PC and
synchronisation was pretty good for its time.

Have a read of

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Here_WeGo

[Bob Eager]

In the UK, I pay the equivalent of about $12.50 for 5GB, unlimited
minuted and unlimited texts.

[sms]

On 2/8/2020 1:33 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 02/08/2020 12:55 PM, sms wrote:
>> On 2/7/2020 7:51 AM, The Real Bev wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> Given the huge number of PROPER warnings about texting and driving, how
>>> do you enter COP HERE etc. messages safely while driving?  I would guess
>>> it's not possible, but I have no data plan and can't test the system --
>>> or even use it.
>>
>> Very sad. Plans with sufficient data for Waze are pretty cheap now
>> <https://www.redpocket.com/plans/ebay>.
>
> I'm pissed at them, as well as Freedompop.  We had two 'foreverr free'
> Freedompop devices which provided tiny amounts of data for free.
> Perfect.  Only need a tiny amount per YEAR.  And then they sold off some
> part of their operation to Red Pocket and 'forever' became 'never'.  Not
> worth even $10/month for data.  $10/year for phone via T-Mobile is just
> fine.

Free Freedompop accounts are still available. Sounds like you were using
their old Sprint-based service which is no longer available. No need to
contact customer service so no cost other than the start-up costs. But
you already knew all this.

BASIC 200
$0/month
200 MB Per Month
200 Minutes
500 Texts

[sms]

In the U.S., I believe that the cheapest single-user plan for 5GB and
unlimited talk and text, on a good network (AT&T or Verizon), is about
$20 per month.

For $25 per month you can get unlimited talk, text, and data on the best
network in the U.S., Verizon. Verizon offers their "Visible" prepaid
service and it's $25 per month if you join a group with at least 4
users. Everyone is billed separately. You can find groups to join on
Reddit <https://www.reddit.com/r/Visible/>. The down side is that only
certain phones can be used. iPhones all work (other than ones without
LTE)
<https://www.androidcentral.com/what-android-phones-are-compatible-visible>.

The cheapest service with fixed amounts of talk, text and data, on a
good network is (100 Talk 100 Text 500MB data) is $5 per month.

There is a free service, FreedomPop that gives you 200 MB data, 200
Minutes, and 500 Texts per month. It runs on AT&T, the second best U.S.
network.

I am using Total Wireless, a Verizon MVNO. Four lines are $95 which gets
you 100GB of high speed data to share, and they now support hotspot
(10GB per line comes out of your data allowance). If you use up 100GB of
LTE data than you get unlimited low-speed data. I would have considered
Visible but several or our phones are not supported.

Speaking of the UK, I have some Vodafone PayGo SIM cards that work in
EU/EEA countries. I hope that Vodafone doesn't drop reciprocal roaming
now that the UK is not part of the EU.

[The Real Bev]

Yes. But I bought this PREVIOUSLY. They canceled it. Why should I
trust them not to cancel this one too? Granted, small amount of money,
but a certain amount of aggravation involved in canceling the paid
service in favor of the free plan.

The chip costs a buck. The hotspot -- more valuable -- costs more.







--
Cheers, Bev
Why should I be tarred with the epithet "loony" merely
because I have a pet halibut? --Monty Python

[Carlos E.R.]

On 07/02/2020 07.25, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 02/06/2020 03:20 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
>> On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 13:24:24 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:
>>
>>> As long as I have it plugged in it tells me that there's traffic ahead
>>> about 30 seconds after I'm caught in it.   Still, since I don't have a
>>> data plan for my phone, it's the only traffic warning I can get once I
>>> leave the house.
>
> It receives the info via radio transmission;  the cord is the receiving
> antenna.  Or so Garmin says.

It comes superimposed on the FM stream of some radio stations. It is not
aggregate traffic, it is the official information distributed by the
traffic agency of the country. It is called TMC.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_message_channel>

TomTom navigators can make use of it, but needs a separate receiver (or
perhaps a suitable car radio).

<https://uk.support.tomtom.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5826>



An aggregate of traffic is a service that has a cost, necessarily; they
have to setup servers to track and calculate it. So, it is either
Google, or you have to pay for it. TomTom, for example provides it, for
an annual fee.

In the case of TomTom it requires an Internet connection to upload your
own position and data. If you opt-out, you get disconnected from the
aggregate traffic data: if you refuse to contribute, you do not benefit.
Seems fair to me. But they delete the data in stages. After a period
they remove ID data, later they keep only the aggregate stats. And do
not sell it others.


--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Bob Eager]

On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 09:43:29 -0800, sms wrote:

> On 2/9/2020 2:44 AM, Bob Eager wrote:
>> In the UK, I pay the equivalent of about $12.50 for 5GB, unlimited
>> minuted and unlimited texts.
>
> In the U.S., I believe that the cheapest single-user plan for 5GB and
> unlimited talk and text, on a good network (AT&T or Verizon), is about
> $20 per month.

Remember also that the called party is not charged in the UK. I believe
that is not the case in the U.S.

> Speaking of the UK, I have some Vodafone PayGo SIM cards that work in
> EU/EEA countries. I hope that Vodafone doesn't drop reciprocal roaming
> now that the UK is not part of the EU.

We still don't know. There's nothing to stop the companies charging for
roaming after 31st December this year - when we really leave.

[Arlen Holder]

On 9 Feb 2020 21:55:57 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

> Remember also that the called party is not charged in the UK. I believe
> that is not the case in the U.S.

Hi Bob Eager,

Are you sure about that?

I can't claim to know all US plans, but I haven't _seen_ a US mobile plan
that charged the receiving party in _years_ (many).

In the olden days, of course, they charged less for family calls, and they
charged less for in-network calls, and they charged horrendously more for
roaming, etc., but, nowadays, in the USA, you'd have to try hard to find a
plan that charged the recipient party for a phone call (AFAIK).

Steve and The Real Bev seem to know a lot more than I do on the really
cheap plans (which I'm impressed that they know 'cuz generally I get pretty
good prices); so let's let them concur or add value to my statements.

>> Speaking of the UK, I have some Vodafone PayGo SIM cards that work in
>> EU/EEA countries. I hope that Vodafone doesn't drop reciprocal roaming
>> now that the UK is not part of the EU.
>
> We still don't know. There's nothing to stop the companies charging for
> roaming after 31st December this year - when we really leave.

On T-Mobile customer support long ago told me to type this in the dialer:
o #766#
And that would put me on the free roaming, which they recommended.
If I wanted to get off the free roaming, I would type #763#.

Here's a screenshot I took for you of what they say when you do that:
<https://i.postimg.cc/sD3dMcX0/roam01.jpg>

As a related aside, I went to Europe only about a month ago, where my
T-Mobile plan "changes" when I leave the country, such that, in Europe:
a. My 4GB of so-called "free high-speed data" becomes "unlimited data", &
b. My incoming (and outgoing) calls are no longer free; they're 25c/min.

Other things remain, such as unlimited free texts/MMS, AFAIK.
--
Free smartphone traffic with no login doesn't seem to exist, unfortunately.

[Bob Eager]

On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 08:41:15 +0000, Arlen Holder wrote:

> On 9 Feb 2020 21:55:57 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:
>
>> Remember also that the called party is not charged in the UK. I believe
>> that is not the case in the U.S.

> Are you sure about that?

No, I'm not. That's why I said 'believe'.

> I can't claim to know all US plans, but I haven't _seen_ a US mobile
> plan that charged the receiving party in _years_ (many).

OK, thanks. There has never been a charge like that in the UK (save for
roaming).

[Arlen Holder]

On 10 Feb 2020 09:16:15 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

>> Are you sure about that?
>
> No, I'm not. That's why I said 'believe'.
>
>> I can't claim to know all US plans, but I haven't _seen_ a US mobile
>> plan that charged the receiving party in _years_ (many).
>
> OK, thanks. There has never been a charge like that in the UK (save for
> roaming).

Thanks for the confirmation, and for the clarification, and for pointing
out the "I believe", which I believe. :)

Mine is also an "AFAIK", where folks like Steve & The Real Bev are far more
up on this stuff than am I, so we can let them clarify.

As for a non-google freeware traffic app that has no login, I don't think
there is one on a smartphone (yet anyway). Sadly so.

That means that we have to log into the Google Map app when we need
traffic, which, I guess, isn't a large penalty for the free traffic.

Even so, I suggest we use any Google login as we would our flashlight.
o Turn it off when you're done using it.

In another thread I noted I turned off location access to all my apps,
which has been working reasonably well (not without hiccups though).
<https://i.postimg.cc/3x7RSbXB/gmap15.jpg>
--
Usenet is a public potluck where helpful adults share useful ideas.

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 09:34:08 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> Even so, I suggest we use any Google login as we would our flashlight.
> o Turn it off when you're done using it.
>
> In another thread I noted I turned off location access to all my apps,
> which has been working reasonably well (not without hiccups though).
> <https://i.postimg.cc/3x7RSbXB/gmap15.jpg>

BTW, notice this "trick" parents could use to track their young kids?

1. You add a _second_ Google Account to the kids' smartphones.
2. Then Google tracks the location of that kid for you.

I just googled for what Google recommends, which is different:
o Find & manage your child's Android device location
<https://support.google.com/families/answer/7103413?hl=en>

Although they kind of sort of pretty much are intimating it here:
o Create a Google Account for your child
<https://support.google.com/families/answer/7103338?hl=en>

But pretty much, any account on the Android phone, AFAIK, will be tracked
by Google if you let Google track you, so you can easily track any phone
that you have an account on (as a primary or secondary account).
o Is Google is tracking you? Find out here
<https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-delete-and-disable-your-google-location-history/>

This article tells you how to stop that Google tracking:
o Google Tracks You Even If Location History's Off. Here's How to Stop It
<https://www.wired.com/story/google-location-tracking-turn-off/>

--
Usenet is a wonderful public potluck where adults share useful information.

[The Real Bev]

On 02/10/2020 12:41 AM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On 9 Feb 2020 21:55:57 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:
>
>> Remember also that the called party is not charged in the UK. I believe
>> that is not the case in the U.S.
>
> Hi Bob Eager,
>
> Are you sure about that?
>
> I can't claim to know all US plans, but I haven't _seen_ a US mobile plan
> that charged the receiving party in _years_ (many).

Huh? They ALL charge both ways -- many plans are just 'unlimited' so
that's functionally invisible.


--
Cheers, Bev
'Politics' comes from an ancient Greek word meaning
'many blood-sucking leeches.' -- Mark Russell

[Chris]

sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
> Speaking of the UK, I have some Vodafone PayGo SIM cards that work in
> EU/EEA countries. I hope that Vodafone doesn't drop reciprocal roaming
> now that the UK is not part of the EU.

Don't we all. And not just vodaphone... :(

[Arlen Holder]

As an OT aside, I _love_ the Brexit thing, 'cuz the way I see it is the
politicians (Tony Blair?) played a sleazy vote-getting game, and then tehy
won, and didn't want to fulfill the promises fully, so they couldn't fight
for the non-Brexit after having won on the Brexit platform.

Fast forward past Teresa May to Boris and Nigel, and they finally have to
do what the voters (barely, and not evenly so) said they had to do.

When they actually do it (soon, I think, like at the end of this year?),
then the "stuff" will hit the fan, hard and fast.

Germany & France won't make it easy for them, IMHO, for different reasons,
where for the Germans, they're the dominant power, and for the French,
well, they're just French.

If Britain gets away with this, I don't think there will be a cascade
though, since the little guys (i.e., everyone but France & Germany) have
more to gain by being in than by being out.

Back to traffic apps, I noticed today that MapFactor Navigator has a
*"Live HD Traffic"* option, but it's apparently a freemium option.

1. Mapfactor Navigator <https://navigatorfree.mapfactor.com/en/>
2. Press on <https://navigatorfree.mapfactor.com/en/support#know-area>
3. Read up on "*Live HD Traffic information*"

"HD traffic offers live traffic information that is displayed on the map
and used for route calculation and optimisation. If there is a new major
delay along your route, Navigator will automatically recalculate it to save
you time and help you get to your destination more quickly. It is available
as an in-app purchase in Map Manager - Buy Maps - Online traffic
information. To set up HD traffic go to Settings - Navigation - HD traffic.
A list of current traffic restrictions is available in Tools - HD Traffic."

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 08:48:55 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:

> Huh? They ALL charge both ways -- many plans are just 'unlimited' so
> that's functionally invisible.

Ug. You're right (I think).
I stand corrected!

Thank you for clarifying, where I publicly apologize where, for landlines,
we've never paid for incoming calls (AFAIK), but for cellphones, in the
olden days we paid for both directions, and, with unlimited calls being the
norm, I don't have any visibility as to how they account for the charges in
their billing systems.

You are correct though, that I wouldn't know if they charge for incoming
calls since they don't charge for _any_ calls, as the norm, so, maybe,
internally, they charge for incoming calls.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sun, 9 Feb 2020 20:09:53 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> It comes superimposed on the FM stream of some radio stations. It is not
> aggregate traffic, it is the official information distributed by the
> traffic agency of the country. It is called TMC.

This is good to know that the Garmin traffic is FM based, which I kind of
sort of remember (but only barely) when I bought a unit with traffic from
Costco at some point but almost never used it and ended up giving it away.

As I recall, the Garmin with traffic had a "different" (larger) cigarette
lighter adapter than the other Garmin nuvi devices I had owned (and still
have in a drawer somewhere as all the mounts broke over time so they're
"hand held" at this point, but more to the point, they're "drawer held" due
to lack of use.

Even so, I think the traffic was just trialware, as I recall.

Moving forward, while it doesn't seem there is a free no login traffic
solution, there are free solutions with logins, where it may be instructive
to list _all_ the known traffic solutions to date, which I'll try below and
ask others to update as needed so we all benefit from the thread topic.
1. *Google Map* app traffic (requires logging in)
2. *Waze* traffic (requires logging in)
3. *CoPilot* traffic (requires payment, hence a login of sorts)
4. *Mapfactor* Navigator traffic (requires payment, hence a login of sorts)
5. *Garmin* FM traffic (I think someone said this requires payment)
6. Local AM/FM radio & 511 phone traffic (free, but generally insufficient)

Are there any other known traffic solutions while on the road?
--
Usenet is a public potluck where purposefully helpful adults share ideas.

[The Real Bev]

On 02/11/2020 10:11 AM, Arlen Holder wrote:

> 5. *Garmin* FM traffic (I think someone said this requires payment)

Not if your unit came with lifetime traffic. No idea how one might
subscribe.

> 6. Local AM/FM radio & 511 phone traffic (free, but generally insufficient)

I used to listen to a radio station with Sigalerts (don't ask!) every 10
minutes. A few times I was warned about traffic jams due to accidents
up ahead, but NEVER even saw broken plastic on the pavement at the
supposed location.


--
Cheers, Bev
"You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your
informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant."
- Harlan Ellison

[Carlos E.R.]

On 11/02/2020 22.23, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 02/11/2020 10:11 AM, Arlen Holder wrote:
>
>> 5. *Garmin* FM traffic (I think someone said this requires payment)
>
> Not if your unit came with lifetime traffic.  No idea how one might
> subscribe.

I have that with TomTom, and "life" is about 5 years. You have to
provide the internet connection, and needs an account with TomTom.
Actually... I think that the maps are free, but traffic needs a yearly
subscription.

On another version of the device, the device has a SIM, and then you
also have to pay a yearly amount for that SIM connectivity.

>
>> 6. Local AM/FM radio & 511 phone traffic (free, but generally
>> insufficient)
>
> I used to listen to a radio station with Sigalerts (don't ask!) every 10
> minutes.  A few times I was warned about traffic jams due to accidents
> up ahead, but NEVER even saw broken plastic on the pavement at the
> supposed location.

In Europe it works better or worse depending on the country. Some people
say they are happy, it works well (Switzerland, Germany...). A friend of
mine had it in Spain and was not happy.


--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Arlen Holder]

On Tue, 11 Feb 2020 13:23:09 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:

> I used to listen to a radio station with Sigalerts (don't ask!) every 10
> minutes. A few times I was warned about traffic jams due to accidents
> up ahead, but NEVER even saw broken plastic on the pavement at the
> supposed location.

Voila!
o *Free traffic & directions, on the road, _without_ any login!*
<https://i.postimg.cc/25VWFLD8/traffic01.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/fRbSDSkj/traffic02.jpg>

If that's KLIV, that's what I had listened to also, where I actually called
them (they gave their number out) to ask what a 'sigalert' meant.

They used a lot of local place names in their traffic reports, as if we all
knew them by heart, which is what you'd expect, and they'd explain them
when you call them to ask what they meant (e.g., I once asked what they
meant by "traffic is backed up all the way to the sunol grade", for
example).

After news all the time (Phil Cosentino's grocery report was highly
informative) and the guy that became famous for fixing the roads when
people complained, KLIV went first to country music I think, and then, I
think, they went bust.

Too bad, as they had the only good local traffic every ten minutes in the
days when nobody had a cellphone.

o Sig Alert
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sig_Alert>

o 511 Traffic Systems
<https://www.dmv.org/travel/511.php>

I think another option is to simply use a web browser to see traffic, for
free, on a web page, while your on the road, on your phone.

All you'd have to do is create a homepage link to maps.google.com set to
your geographic area of interest, for example, for the Sunol Grade:
<https://www.google.com/maps/@37.5013480,-121.9629653,12z/data=!5m1!1e1>
<https://google.com/maps/@37.50,-122,12z/data=!5m1!1e1>

Voila!
o *Free traffic & directions, on the road, _without_ any login!*
<https://i.postimg.cc/25VWFLD8/traffic01.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/fRbSDSkj/traffic02.jpg>
--
When people purposefully help each other on the Usenet potluck, we all win.

[The Real Bev]

On 02/11/2020 07:32 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Feb 2020 13:23:09 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:
>
>> I used to listen to a radio station with Sigalerts (don't ask!) every 10
>> minutes. A few times I was warned about traffic jams due to accidents
>> up ahead, but NEVER even saw broken plastic on the pavement at the
>> supposed location.
>
> Voila!
> o *Free traffic & directions, on the road, _without_ any login!*
> <https://i.postimg.cc/25VWFLD8/traffic01.jpg>
> <https://i.postimg.cc/fRbSDSkj/traffic02.jpg>
>
> If that's KLIV, that's what I had listened to also, where I actually called
> them (they gave their number out) to ask what a 'sigalert' meant.

Also a country station that went belly up. Can't remember the callsign.
There used to be a guy who would come in and rant about something and
end up with "That's my opinion; oughta be yours." which I like a lot.
There was also something about the buzzards returning to Pixley, clearly
a Swallows/Capistrano reference.

I listened to it in the 90s, but I'm not sure what era the music was
from -- certainly before Garth Brooks doubled his weight. Certainly
better than the current stuff.

> o Sig Alert
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sig_Alert>
>
> o 511 Traffic Systems
> <https://www.dmv.org/travel/511.php>

--
Cheers, Bev
"Some people are alive only because it is illegal to kill them."
-- Lionel

[Arlen Holder]

UPDATE:

What I've been doing for the past week or so works nicely to allow online
traffic plus Google accuracy in address lookups and decent routing and
spoken directions, without having to have a Google account on Android.

If I _wanted_ to, of course, I could just log into the Google Maps app, but
the whole point was to get free traffic where this method seems to work:

1. In the setup phase, open any browser on Android, and give that browser
location access (or not), and point that browser to any desired traffic
area and save the URL to your desktop & put it in your maps folder.

For example, I tested SRWare Iron set to this traffic map area URL:
<https://google.com/maps/@37,-122,12z/data=!5m1!1e1>

2. In the setup phase, download and install any desired offline road map
app such as OSMAnd~ or MapFactor Navigator or whatever road map you like,
and put their icons in your map folder.

3. If desired, in the setup phase, install addresstogps but I skipped this
step in my tests this week as I've written my addresstogps tests long ago.

Note: Addresstogps scrapes the Google map database and feeds the
coordinates found from an address lookup into any desired offline map app.

4. On the road, you can get traffic simply by turning on your cellular data
and tapping the google-maps web page shortcut, where you can tap the circle
to get your updated GPS location on that Google web browser map.

5. You can run an online search for an address, and the opened web browser
will find it, and if you tap to place a "pin" (at least in SWRware Iron),
if you put that pin slightly off the road, you'll get the familiar GPS
coordinates (e.g., +37,-22) which you can copy to your clipboard.

6. Once your destination is accurately copied to your clipboard, you can
past those destination coordinates into any offline roadmap routing app you
like, all the while having updated traffic if you need it, but if you don't
need it, you can just turn off your cellular data.

Of course, if at any time you _need_ the Google Map accurate routing
directions, you can always simply log into Google Maps and then log out
when you're done, but the whole point is to avoid that Google login and
still get the functionality of:
a. Free traffic without logins
b. Accurate address to GPS lookups
c. Spoken and visual routing directions

In short, one possible solution that requires no login is:
a. Free traffic sans login === Google Maps browser with traffic turned on
b. Addresstogps coordinates === either addresstogps apps or copy on the map
c. Spoken & visual directions === many map apps do this so choose your own

[Arlen Holder]

On Wed, 5 Feb 2020 18:12:23 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> *Is there a non Google freeware privacy-enabled traffic app?*

UPDATE:

On 17 Feb 2020 16:18:20 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> While Sygic has a free version, I think it does not satisfy your
> other requirements:

Thanks Frank Slootweg for that advice and for understanding the freeware,
no login, privacy, offline, and traffic requirements, where, after testing,
as you predicted, I was forced to delete the Sygic, Maverick Lite, Aponia,
HereWeGo, CoPilot, GeoLife, Navmii, Locus Maps, MapDroyd, Rout 66, & ZANavi
freeware Android offline map applications, where this was the short list
tested this week:
<https://i.postimg.cc/dtBmLFGp/directions01.jpg>

Given addresstogps doesn't seem to work anymore...
<http://s1.bild.me/bilder/110417/5217118lookup02.jpg>
<http://s1.bild.me/bilder/110417/7012818lookup01.jpg>

There are only 3 free offline map applications, IMHO, that fit privacy
requirements (where the Google trick below is used only because of Google's
fantastic traffic capability, set to the best privacy mode possible):
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2528509lookup00.jpg>

a. A desktop shortcut to the google maps web page
<https://google.com/maps/@37,-122,12z/data=!5m1!1e1>
<https://i.postimg.cc/25VWFLD8/traffic01.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/fRbSDSkj/traffic02.jpg>
b. OSMAnd~ (mine is from F-Droid)
<https://f-droid.org/packages/net.osmand.plus/>
c. MapFactor Navigator (with the special American English voice, Carly)
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mapfactor.navigator>
<https://i.postimg.cc/XJd936V2/directions02.jpg>

These failed the basic privacy tests (now or in the past):
1. CoPilot GPS - Navigation, by ALK Technologies
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.alk.copilot.mapviewer>
2. Sygic, by Sygic maps navigation
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sygic.aura>
3. Navmii GPS USA (Navfree), by Navmii
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.navfree.android.OSM.USA>
4. Maverick Lite
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.codesector.maverick.lite>
5. Route 66
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.route66navigation>
6. Offline Maps
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.navigation.offlinemaps.gps>
7. Maps.Me
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mapswithme.maps.pro>
8. City Maps 2Go
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ulmon.android.citymaps2go>

Did we miss testing any free offline road maps for Android?
<https://play.google.com/store/search?q=offline%20maps&c=apps>
--
Usenet enables purposefully helpful adults around the world to share ideas!

[Arlen Holder]

UPDATE:

> Incognito in Google Maps
> Another thing to note when you compare Android 9 and 10 is that Google
> Maps will operate in incognito mode. The users will now be able to look
> for and navigate places privately without having the data linked back
> to their accounts.

Bearing in mind I haven't had a Google account set up on my Android phone
in years (which means I have to work around the potential loss of
functionality of some Google apps - which I have been successful at)...

I recently updated Android 9 to Android 10 on my $100 Moto G7
o Where one change, supposedly, is a new Google Maps "incognito mode"

o Those on Android 10... is it worth upgrading from 9 to 10?
What are the pitfalls you've experienced & the benefits?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/X65cMyzAn-g>

The new Google Maps "incognito mode"
<https://support.google.com/maps/thread/18141335>
Seems to be the default for Android 10.

I only tested it for a few minutes, where I don't have my phone set to a
Google Account (so I'm always in incognito mode, so to speak, anyway).

It's important to note that TRAFFIC seems to work, even as I only tested it
from home, so I wasn't moving.

In the new Google Maps on Android 10, without any login to Google even set
up on the phone, I can now see traffic if I hit the "layers" button when
setting up the route, and, I also see traffic once I hit the "Start"
button, where I have to hit the "up arrow" and then the "Whow traffic on
Map" selection off the pop-up menu.

The point is that we're back to the functionality of Android 7 with Google
Maps on an Android phone which has no Google login, where Android 9
_removed_ functionality, but it's back with Android 10.

Given I have no login to Google Maps, there seems to be more functionality
in Google Maps in Android 10 than there was in Android 9 so maybe they
updated the map app too? Dunno. But the functionality is back, sort of, to
what it was in Android 7 without a login in that you can get DIRECTIONS
again (even without a Google login).

So now we're back to (what I remember as the functionality of) Nougat,
where, without any login to Google on the phone, the Google Map app now
does DIRECTIONS and ROUTING (which it didn't do in Android 9).

This is good because I had to circumvent Google Maps in Android 9 by using
the world-wide address-search best-in-class feature of Google Maps on a
privacy-aware browser (http://maps.google.com), and then capture the
coordinates of the given address, and then paste those so-called GPS
coordinates into an offline map app, which then routed me to my
destination.

The two things Google Maps does best was available, without a login, using
the privacy-aware web browser, which is:
a. Traffic
b. Address lookup

Now I can do both those things _without_ needing to use a privacy-based web
browser URL shortcut on the homescreen since Google Maps seems to allow
both now, even when you don't have a login to Google set up on your Android
phone.

I haven't tested this on the road though, so consider this preliminary good
news for user privacy in that the average person, on Android 10, now has
the privacy I had to set up with those workarounds on Android 9.

See also:
o Does anyone know how or if Google associates your identity
with your Google Map navigation activities?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/um2niVH0oYU>

o Is there a non Google freeware traffic app
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android//Ve_2cgliiGk>

o What decent free offline no-login privacy-enabled road map apps
exist for Android users to enjoy?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/YadPNimUcu8>