Couple stranded following GPS
Ed Pawlowski
brain.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_stranded_motorists
GRANTS PASS, Ore. - A Nevada couple letting their SUV's navigation system
guide them through the high desert of Eastern Oregon got stuck in snow for
three days when the GPS unit sent them down a remote forest road.
On Sunday, atmospheric conditions apparently changed enough for their
GPS-enabled cell phone to get a weak signal and relay coordinates to a
dispatcher, Klamath County Sheriff Tim Evinger said.
"GPS almost did 'em in and GPS saved 'em," Evinger said. "It will give you
options to pick the shortest route. You certainly get the shortest route.
But it may not be a safe route."
Red
Guess they shoulda sprung for one of those high end GPS devices that
reminds you not to drive in snow too deep for your vehicle. Ah, Darwin
at work....
You
wrote:
These folks are to STUPID to be issued a Drivers License....
Gene E. Bloch
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_stranded_motorists
A couple of years ago in the winter, James Kim (if I recall his name
correctly) managed to pick a Forest Service road to go west from Route
99 to another major road in southern Oregon, without the help of a GPS.
His wife and children were found alive, but he'd gone on foot to seek
help and didn't survive.
As for Red's remark about Darwin at work, note that they are in their
mid to upper 60s :-)
That whole area is tough even on the better roads, IMO.
BTW, when I heard about the new rescue, I did wonder if GPS was
involved. I plotted some routes across southern Oregon this past summer
using Streets and Trips, and it wanted to put me on similar roads to
the Rhoads' roads. I declined, even in late May...I just used my AAA
maps :-)
--
Gene Bloch 650.366.4267 lettersatblochg.com
Pegleg
> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> The shortest route is not always the best route. You still have to
>> use your brain.
> Guess they shoulda sprung for one of those high end GPS devices that
> reminds you not to drive in snow too deep for your vehicle. Ah, Darwin
> at work....
What pisses me off even more than the couple's
stupidity is the media presenting this as being
the fault of the GPS unit!
Brian
Sunshine
My local TV stations didn't try to blame the GPS unit for getting the
folks lost, nor did they try to credit the other GPS unit for finding
them. If they had, I too would have been displeased.
ps56k
"Pegleg" <brian.peg...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:hhe8o3$qs2$1...@pegleg.eternal-september.org...
yup - blame the GPS sats -
http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20091230/sc_space/lostcouplecantblamegpsairforcesays
ps56k
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20091230/sc_space/lostcouplecantblamegpsairforcesays
forgot to add my comment....
that it's really sad that the USAF even has to "comment"
on some moronic news tag line
that would imply it was the fault of the GPS sats...
Our whole world has become one big tabloid society,
with stupidity running as the norm...
who where
wrote:
Only serves to prove that even GPS can't fix stupid.
Lon
It isnt the first case of MSO [Machine Smarter than Operator] and it
wont be the last. Plus these folks are from close to the same area
where another family a few years ago also took a "gps shortcut" and not
all of that one survived. You'd think they watch the news every now and
then, but I suspect when their TV station asks them not to change the
channel--they don't.
Lon
If you set a GPS to shortest route, it will give you the shortest route
as dictated by your other preferences regarding road types.
In a Jeep, with a bit of common sense, can be interesting.
Gene E. Bloch
That phrase "common sense" - just what does it mean, exactly?
That's just my weird (sardonic, I guess) way of saying that you hit the
nail on the head...
Yo$$1960
> That phrase "common sense" - just what does it mean, exactly?
It mis-uses the word common, for a start.
--
Regards _
/ ) "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)rad never immediately apparent"
If you ain't sticking your knives in me, you will be eventually
Monsoon - Robbie Williams
do...@02.usenet.us.com
> the Rhoads' roads. I declined, even in late May...I just used my AAA
> maps :-)
Many moons ago, the AAA map made "state highway 3", look like a good route
as an alternate to 299 from Redding, CA out to the coast during
construction on 299. I should have known better when the yellow line in
the middle of the road disappeared. Eventually, it was just a one lane
road, with blind curves.
Around here, there are some maps that show wishful thinking... "it would be
nice if this road connected through to that one". Sometimes you can see
what led a cartographer working from sat/air photos to think there was a
road there, maybe HV power lines, or a dirt track from someone who decided
to make that shortcut.
--
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5
Peter H. Coffin
Or a planned extension of something to be finished by the time the map
was published, but the budget for it fell through. Or (real case near my
home) a manufacturing plant that has a freight yard very near a long
driveway near two thoroughfares. Some paper maps and some mapping
systems show one being able to go from Bluemound Road, up Badinger Road,
onto the access road that supplies the freight yard then onto County
Road J, saving a couple of hundred yards of travel distance. There's
actually a chain-link fence topped with razor wire at the end of
Badinger Road. (I've already submitted an error report, and I'm sure
it'll get corrected in a future map update. Paper maps don't have much
hope.)
--
"Friendship is born at that moment when one person says to another,
'What! You too? I thought I was the only one!'"
--C.S. Lewis
Gene E. Bloch
> On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 11:51:39 -0800, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
>> That phrase "common sense" - just what does it mean, exactly?
> It mis-uses the word common, for a start.
LOL
Gene E. Bloch
Oh, well, 299 can be a chore even on a good day :-)
OTOH, a couple of years ago I went that way from Eureka to Santa Rosa
because 101 southbound was washed out by a storm. Well, parts of 299
weren't so hot either because of that storm, the trip was extremely
long, and we eventually learned that 101 was opened up very quickly and
we wouldn't have been blocked (but who knew?).
It's nice to have a story to tell my grandchildren...If only it was an
interesting story :-)
GaryinOregon
Comments here concerning the intelligence of GPS users should
themselves be intelligent enough to realize that GPS units are
marketed as, and BOUGHT for, assistance to users traveling in
UNfamiliar territory! IF they already KNEW the areas well enough, they
wouldn't NEED or BUY a device to guide their travels would they!
I have personally seen my own GPS, a Garmin 340, try to "guide" me
down roads that didn't exist, or haven't been more than faint cow
trails for DECADES! In my described examples, the Garmin was set once
on "Fastest", another, on "shortest" settings - made NO difference -
the supplied and upgraded (2010) Garmin map versions STILL don't
recognize those cow trails no longer exist - and HAVEN'T for decades!
For that batter, my own 12 year home address and 20+ year old street
is ALSO not recognized or displayed on the most current Garmin area
map.
BUY a "better" or "more expensive" GPS for better and more accurate
maps" You're living in a dream world - ALL the GPS makers get their
maps from one or another of only *2* map suppliers - and it won't make
any difference if you pay $100, or $1000 for a GPS, you will STILL
only get the map of one or the other of those 2 outfits - inaccuracies
and outdated info included!
Since cigarettes and other similar hazardous items are legally
recuired to include warnings, GPS units should also be forced to have
"Use directions from this device strictly at your own risk"
permanently imbedded upon them!
Ed Pawlowski
>
> Comments here concerning the intelligence of GPS users should
> themselves be intelligent enough to realize that GPS units are
> marketed as, and BOUGHT for, assistance to users traveling in
> UNfamiliar territory! IF they already KNEW the areas well enough, they
> wouldn't NEED or BUY a device to guide their travels would they!
That goes back to the common sense thing. I still have my paper maps. I
also will not go down an unpaved road with 12" of snow just because the GPS
tells me I can. To blindly follow the GPS on a long trip is just stupid.
Some advance planning goes a long way to surviving.
We've had this discussion before. I can drive from my house in CT to LA
just by following the road signs and knowing that Ohio comes after PA. When
I get to LA though, it is very nice to have a GPS to get me from the higway
to 90210 Bevery Hills Boulevard.
Sunshine
wrote:
>GaryinOregon wrote:
>>
>> Comments here concerning the intelligence of GPS users should
>> themselves be intelligent enough to realize that GPS units are
>> marketed as, and BOUGHT for, assistance to users traveling in
>> UNfamiliar territory! IF they already KNEW the areas well enough, they
>> wouldn't NEED or BUY a device to guide their travels would they!
>
>That goes back to the common sense thing. I still have my paper maps. I
>also will not go down an unpaved road with 12" of snow just because the GPS
>tells me I can. To blindly follow the GPS on a long trip is just stupid.
>Some advance planning goes a long way to surviving.
It's not always easy to tell whether a road is paved or not when it
has 12" of snow on it, but there should be other clues, I would think.
Happy Trails
wrote:
>It's not always easy to tell whether a road is paved or not when it
>has 12" of snow on it, but there should be other clues, I would think.
Stopping and scraping a bit of the snow off and consistently finding
asphalt would be a dead giveaway, don'tcha think?
Evidence of previous plowing might also assist the driver capable of
very deep thinking. If it has been plowed from previous snowfalls, it
is PROBABLY a "maintained" road, hahaha.
Sunshine
wrote:
>On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 21:58:39 -0600, Sunshine <suns...@none.invalid>
>wrote:
>>It's not always easy to tell whether a road is paved or not when it
>>has 12" of snow on it, but there should be other clues, I would think.
>
>Stopping and scraping a bit of the snow off and consistently finding
>asphalt would be a dead giveaway, don'tcha think?
I don't think many people would agree that it's reasonable to
periodically stop, get out, and scrape a bit of snow to check for
asphalt. I certainly wouldn't propose it or do it myself.
>Evidence of previous plowing might also assist the driver capable of
>very deep thinking. If it has been plowed from previous snowfalls, it
>is PROBABLY a "maintained" road, hahaha.
And if it's not plowed, it can simply mean it hasn't been plowed yet.
I was thinking more along the lines of signage.
Topaz305rk
"Sunshine" <suns...@none.invalid> wrote in message
news:ti88k5doqnsisakfq...@4ax.com...
The dead give-a-way clue is "12 inches of snow" duh!!!!
Why go there just because a pretty little color screen says you can?
Oh, yea, there is the "common sense" thing again.
Mike Russell
I dunno. This is the "nut behind the wheel" argument, revisited. We've
done things to make cars safer, why not GPS units?
Out of millions of people using GPS, there will be a certain number who
will do dumb things and get themselves in trouble. It seems likely that
the GPS user interface can be changed to reduce the number of incidents,
perhaps saving a few lives. Preventing an accident would be all to the
better, regardless of whose "fault" it would have been.
For starters, flagging seasonal roads in the road database would have made
this particular incident less likely to happen. This could even be a
user-maintained database, similar to the red light POI databases that have
sprung up via user contributions.
--
Mike Russell - http://www.curvemeister.com
Sunshine
wrote:
You might not be that familiar with driving in snow conditions, from
the sound of it. Not all snow is created equally. A foot of fresh dry
powder won't even slow you down, while a foot of wet or blown/drifted
snow will pretty much stop most passenger vehicles dead in their
tracks. The fact that the hapless couple drove for at least several
miles tells you that it was a dry snow, at least toward the beginning.
>Why go there just because a pretty little color screen says you can?
>Oh, yea, there is the "common sense" thing again.
I have never argued against common sense. We're together on that
point.
GaryinOregon
wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Jan 2010 07:23:06 -0700, Topaz305rk wrote:
> >news:ti88k5doqnsisakfq...@4ax.com...
> >> On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 23:27:10 -0500, Happy Trails <nom...@myplace.com>
> >> wrote:
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
ABSOLUTELY - why not a "no secondary roads" option as to routes, or
something similar - the "fastest route" or "shortest route" leaves
LOTS to be desired, and "disasters-in-waiting" potential. I bought our
own unit for hands free use in heavy trafficked metropolitan areas -
especially while traveling with our RV - and have several times been
traveling in unfamiliar areas as snow began to fall LONG before any
plows were to arrive - SO, as an owner of a GPS unit BOUGHT to provide
guidance in unfamiliar areas - and yeah, in BAD weather too - I'm
THEN, advised to "carry a printed map", and also get out periodically
to "dig in the snow to see if I'm still on a paved surface"?
Yeah - there ARE some brain power issues here - and it ISN'T all on
the GPS users who get lost due to weaknesses in the design and
accuracy of supplied maps...
Why is all the blame and responsibility automatically upon the BUYER/
USER - why can't we expect a BETTER and MORE ACCURATE device from the
MAKER?
You
<a663b429-1fe2-4e4d...@e37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
GaryinOregon <kj...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Why is all the blame and responsibility automatically upon the BUYER/
> USER - why can't we expect a BETTER and MORE ACCURATE device from the
> MAKER?
It is simple, DUFUS... You didn't do the RESEARCH into the Product
BEFORE you bought it... Because if you had you would have KNOWN it's
capabilities.... So you based you purchase on unrealistic
expectations... and NOW all you can do is WHINE about how the OEM should
have figured out what your expectations were, and built that into the
product..... Get a life.. it isn't the OEM's responsibility to Please
you, it is your responsibility to KNOW what your buying because you did
the Research in the FIRST PLACE... If the product didn't meet your
expectations, then DO NOT buy it.... Duh.... I bet you voted for Obama
too.... How's that working out for you....
Rossum
>In article
><a663b429-1fe2-4e4d...@e37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
> GaryinOregon <kj...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Why is all the blame and responsibility automatically upon the BUYER/
>> USER - why can't we expect a BETTER and MORE ACCURATE device from the
>> MAKER?
>
>It is simple, DUFUS... You didn't do the RESEARCH into the Product
>BEFORE you bought it... Because if you had you would have KNOWN it's
>capabilities.... So you based you purchase on unrealistic
>expectations... and NOW all you can do is WHINE about how the OEM should
>have figured out what your expectations were, and built that into the
>product..... Get a life.. it isn't the OEM's responsibility to Please
>you,
Actually, it is precisely the OEM's responsibility to please
consumers. The OEM who does it best wins the market share.
<snipped the rest of this ridiculous rant>
Ed Pawlowski
>
> Yeah - there ARE some brain power issues here - and it ISN'T all on
> the GPS users who get lost due to weaknesses in the design and
> accuracy of supplied maps...
>
> Why is all the blame and responsibility automatically upon the BUYER/
> USER - why can't we expect a BETTER and MORE ACCURATE device from the
> MAKER?
I'm not going to trust my life to a $99 computer on the dashboard. I'm
taking responsibility for my own actions to the best of my ability and
knowledge. I have no idea what information the programmer and designer had
at the time and how it compares to conditions at the moment, but I can look
out the window and make a decision to stop or go based on my 48 years of
driving experience.
Seth
news:B7mdnXOSsK8bZdrW...@giganews.com...
Amen to that. No one wants to take personal responsibility anymore. Blame
the tools, not the one using it is way too common these days.
Topaz305rk
Topaz305rk
"Sunshine" <suns...@none.invalid> wrote in message
stuff.
Just last week we had 7 inches of bone dry white fluff.
After just six hours of 25 mph winds it had blown into 26 to 29 inch drifts.
The drifts where hard enough that my one ton Dodge 4x4 had a hard time
breaking through them.
Fluff turns into cement given a few hours of wind.
Spent the next morning driving around on the snow blower just making enough
progress to get vehicles around the yard.
Sunshine
wrote:
That's correct. Dry powder snow is one thing, but blown or wet snow is
a whole different story, not to mention the drift aspect.
GaryinOregon
> In article
The Quality" of your reply tells MUCH about your own intelligence and
maturity level,,,
Manufacturers rise, or fall, on their ability to provide not what THEY
like or are willing to produce, but what their CUSTOMERS want and need
- and in the case of GPS units DESIGNED and MARKETED to assist
travelers in unfamiliar places and situations, the need and "wants"
should be pretty obvious!
Research a GPS device? Yeah, sure - and which one of them openly
advertises the very real likelihood it will in more remote areas send
the user down a cowtrail instead of an actual ROAD designed for
vehicle traffic? How many makers will send the customer an actual unit
to test before purchase, to actually SEE it's strengths and weaknesses
in varying situations BEFORE buying?
NO, *I* have never allowed myself to be diverted down OBVIOUSLY
inadequate and impassable paths by my own Garmin C340 - but I AM
disgusted at the far too many times it has TRIED - and if I *can't*
trust it in unfamiliar areas (the very reason I BOUGHT it!), and then
must fall back upon printed maps for proper directions - then what use
is it?
You
<14aa321d-cf6f-46e0...@q4g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
GaryinOregon <kj...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Well that is the 'Question of the HOUR, isn't it????? Just HOW does the
OEM, in this case Garmin, "KNOW" what each individual potentioal
customer wants in their GPS??? Do you expect them to custom build one of
these mass marketed devices to YOUR PERSONAL specifications? Their
Engineers listen to the Marketing Folks, who listen to the comments sent
in by customers with previous Models.... Did you send in any comments
to Garmin on a previous Model? NO, Well then you are a Whiney Assed
DUFUS... who expects the world of Marketing and Engineers, to READ YOUR
MIND.... in advance, of your even thinking about a purchase... let alone
going out and plunking down your cash, sight unseen, for their product,
because your to lazy to research their products, of which, ALL the User
Manuals are published ONLINE.... Yup, definitely an Obama Voter....
Well welcome to the REAL WORLD, of which YOU are a VERY Small Part...
and your MIND is even SMALLER....
Ed Pawlowski
>
> NO, *I* have never allowed myself to be diverted down OBVIOUSLY
> inadequate and impassable paths by my own Garmin C340 - but I AM
> disgusted at the far too many times it has TRIED - and if I *can't*
> trust it in unfamiliar areas (the very reason I BOUGHT it!), and then
> must fall back upon printed maps for proper directions - then what use
> is it?
So, the GPS unit should be able to tell you that the road has snow and has
not been plowed yet? Can't you tell that from looking out the window?
LightByrd
Send that advice to weathermen! :<)
--
Regards,
Richard Harison
Mike Russell
> Yup, definitely an Obama Voter....
> Well welcome to the REAL WORLD, of which YOU are a VERY Small Part...
> and your MIND is even SMALLER....
What's with the caps with you guys?
Did you know you have a special shift key, on the extreme RIGHT side of the
keyboard?