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HOV Lanes and "Avoid" Settings

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Jim Beachy

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Sep 20, 2007, 8:49:33 AM9/20/07
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I have a 2720, currently loaded with City Navigator North America NT 2008
(v9) and the latest firmware update. The symptoms I'm describing were the
same with CNNA v7 and an earlier firmware revision.

I live in the Washington, DC suburban area and drive or ride my Gold Wing to
work in downtown DC every day. I-66 inside the Capital Beltway is
restricted as an HOV (High-Occupancy Vehicle) or Motorcycle road inbound in
the morning, outbound in the evening. Sometimes the 2720 refuses to use
I-66 in its route and sometimes it does. It took a while to figure out, but
I finally realized it has to do with time of day. The map apparently
"knows" the hours of HOV restrictions, and when I generate a route during
HOV hours, it avoids the HOV segment.

Now, I've played ad nauseum with the "Avoid" setup, setting "Carpool Lanes"
to "Avoid" and "Don't Avoid" as well as different settings for major/minor
roads, but the results are always the same. I've changed the settings and
recalculated the route in progress or as a new route, but it makes no
difference. I have finally realized that the HOV lanes are ALWAYS avoided
during the restricted hours, regardless of the settings.

Anyone else have this problem? I think I have changed every Navigation
setting on the unit trying to change this behavior but have been
unscucessful. I'm not sure if it should be attributed to the CNNA maps or
the unit, but I'd guess it's an issue with the algorithm in the 2720.

--
Jim Beachy

Larry G

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Sep 20, 2007, 9:03:18 AM9/20/07
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fascinating... I had not idea that GPS units, for a given multi-lane
road.. "knew" which lanes were HOV much less.. what kind of HOV or the
hours.

how would the unit itself "know" that for a given day, during given
hours, that the same vehicle.. might or might not have enough
passengers to use HOV?

also.. I thought motorcycles COULD use HOV... isn't there a setting in
the unit to tell the unit what kind of vehicle?

Frank Tabor

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Sep 20, 2007, 9:52:07 AM9/20/07
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On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 08:49:33 -0400, "Jim Beachy" <jbe...@cox.net>
wrote:

Can you change the vehicle type? To Motorcycle and recalculate and
see if it changes.
--
Frank Tabor

Jeffrey Kaplan

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Sep 20, 2007, 11:07:47 AM9/20/07
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It is alleged that Larry G claimed:

> fascinating... I had not idea that GPS units, for a given multi-lane
> road.. "knew" which lanes were HOV much less.. what kind of HOV or the
> hours.

On the face of it, how else would it know to avoid or include them? HOV
lanes are mapped, and if time-sensitive, the times are public
knowledge.



> also.. I thought motorcycles COULD use HOV... isn't there a setting in

They are, I think that's the point...

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

Tips for Evil Geniuses: 17. If I really must experiment on a teenage
girl, I will not choose the buxom cheerleader whose courageous and
handsome boyfriend is captain of the football team. Instead, I will
choose the mousy quiet girl whose only boyfriend is the nervous head of
the Dungeons and Dragons club, whom I can probably co-opt if I need to.

Jeffrey Kaplan

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Sep 20, 2007, 11:17:58 AM9/20/07
to
It is alleged that Jim Beachy claimed:

> I have a 2720, currently loaded with City Navigator North America NT 2008
> (v9) and the latest firmware update. The symptoms I'm describing were the
> same with CNNA v7 and an earlier firmware revision.
>
> I live in the Washington, DC suburban area and drive or ride my Gold Wing to
> work in downtown DC every day. I-66 inside the Capital Beltway is

Does your unit have a separate selection for Motorcycle vs Car?

> restricted as an HOV (High-Occupancy Vehicle) or Motorcycle road inbound in
> the morning, outbound in the evening. Sometimes the 2720 refuses to use
> I-66 in its route and sometimes it does. It took a while to figure out, but
> I finally realized it has to do with time of day. The map apparently
> "knows" the hours of HOV restrictions, and when I generate a route during
> HOV hours, it avoids the HOV segment.
>
> Now, I've played ad nauseum with the "Avoid" setup, setting "Carpool Lanes"
> to "Avoid" and "Don't Avoid" as well as different settings for major/minor
> roads, but the results are always the same. I've changed the settings and

If "Avoidances" are on in general, make sure that the HOV/Carpool item
is off.

> recalculated the route in progress or as a new route, but it makes no
> difference. I have finally realized that the HOV lanes are ALWAYS avoided
> during the restricted hours, regardless of the settings.

Are the access ramps of the HOV segment different? IOW, is it possible
that you're trying to get on/off through access ramps that are
closed/not in use during the HOV period?



--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

"I think that Sam means, "What do we do now?"" "Now we die." "Well
that's a bad plan." - Jack O'Neill and Bra'tac, SG1

Larry G

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Sep 20, 2007, 5:37:08 PM9/20/07
to

you might could tell the unit.. that you are a motorcycle...agree

but how would you tell the unit that your car had enough passengers to
qualify to use the HOV?

I have a TomTom and I know for a fact that there is no way to tell it
that your car is carrying enough folks to qualify for a given HOV...

so .. how do other units do this?

Jim Beachy

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Sep 20, 2007, 11:13:24 PM9/20/07
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No, the unit/map doesn't know how many passengers you are carrying. It
*does*, however, know the HOV highway segments and apparently the time of
day the HOV restrictions are in effect. Thus, during the hours HOV is in
effect, the GPS always avoids that route segment regardless of the
"avoid/don't avoid" settings. Yes, motorcycles (here in VA) are allowed to
use HOV, but the point is that the GPS avoids those HOV lanes during
restricted hours, regardless of the settings I've tried. The salient
vehicle setting is "Automobile/Motorcycle", so I can't specify a motorcycle
vehicle.

This very evening on the way home, I left work just before 6:30pm and
generated a route home. HOV restrictions end at 6:30 pm. The GPS route
avoided the HOV segment of I-66. At 6:35 I had the GPS recalculate, and at
that point it used the segment, presumably because HOV had been lifted at
6:30.

--
Jim Beachy


"Larry G" <gross...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1190293398.8...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...


> On Sep 20, 8:49 am, "Jim Beachy" <jbea...@cox.net> wrote:

<snip original post>>

Message has been deleted

Jeffrey Kaplan

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Sep 21, 2007, 12:02:38 PM9/21/07
to
It is alleged that Larry G claimed:

> do Garmin units "know" how many lanes there are on a multi-lane
> highway?

The circle of uncertainty (accuracy) is not small enough to
differentiate lanes.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

Peter's Top 100 Things I'd Do If I Ever Became An Evil Overlord, #161.
I will occasionally vary my daily routine and not live my life in a
rut. For example, I will not always take a swig of wine or ring a giant
gong before finishing off my enemy.

Jim Beachy

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Sep 21, 2007, 12:04:17 PM9/21/07
to
The whole I-66 highway segment in question is restricted to HOV during
certain hours, not just one lane. So the routing should be sensitive only
to the "avoid" settings -- having nothing to do with type of vehicle or
number of passengers. But it ALWAYS avoids this HOV segment during HOV
hours even when set to "Don't Avoid". I want to be able avoid or not avoid,
at my option. That's the crux of the issue for me.

Yeah, I know someone is saying... "Uh, you live there and drive this road
every day -- why are you using a GPS?" Well, I do it so when I'm in Los
Angeles or Orlando or Chicago or Atlanta, I have some idea of how the
routing characteristics, which helps in real-world navigation in the strange
and wonderful places where I frequently find myself :-)

--
Jim Beachy


"Larry G" <gross...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1190379484.4...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 20, 11:13 pm, "Jim Beachy" <jbea...@cox.net> wrote:
<HugeSnip>
>
> my unit does not... it just gets me on the road... and no matter
> whether it is two or eight lanes... it does not say anything about
> which lanes...and this is true on multi-lanes with HOV (remember I
> have a Tom Tom 300)....

Nick Danger

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Sep 21, 2007, 1:17:20 PM9/21/07
to

"Larry G" <gross...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1190379484.4...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> however... I'm still curious about how the uit differentiates lanes
> on a multi-lane highway....

>
> my unit does not... it just gets me on the road... and no matter
> whether it is two or eight lanes... it does not say anything about
> which lanes...and this is true on multi-lanes with HOV (remember I
> have a Tom Tom 300)....
>
> do Garmin units "know" how many lanes there are on a multi-lane
> highway?

I don't think they can measure your position with that degree of accuracy.
On the road I take to work, the highway widens to a couple extra lanes
leading up to the exit that I take to get onto a different highway. As I get
over into the far right lane going into this exit, my 2720 always thinks
I've missed my exit and am still on the first highway. She sneers
"Recalculating" at me and laboriously calculates a new route based on this
assumption, then as soon as she is done calculating the new route, she
discovers that I have magically teleported over to the highway I was
supposed to be on in the first place, and she sighs "Recalculating" again to
switch back over to the original route.

It seems to me that in such situations - where the lanes for two different
paths are right next to each other - the unit should be able to give you the
benefit of the doubt and assume that you have gone in the correct direction.
Another possibility is to retain a memory buffer of recent mistakes - where
a mistake is recognized by the fact that the unit seemed to magically move
from Road A to Road B - so that when the unit again finds itself on Road A
at about the same location, it could assume it is on Road B. My GPS also
tells me on its statistics page that the top recorded speed it has observed
is 370 mph. Someone, either my wife or Jill, has some explaining to do.


Larry G

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Sep 21, 2007, 2:39:47 PM9/21/07
to
On Sep 21, 1:17 pm, "Nick Danger" <yourn...@yourdomain.com> wrote:
> "Larry G" <gross.la...@gmail.com> wrote in message

...."She sneers "Recalculating" (or ..."sighs)... yes....

I'm sure every attempt is made to make the voice ... be neutral... but
I too, have noticed.. that sometimes... that voice does not sound
neutral... :-)

Larry G

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Sep 21, 2007, 2:44:05 PM9/21/07
to
On Sep 21, 12:04 pm, "Jim Beachy" <jbea...@cox.net> wrote:
> The whole I-66 highway segment in question is restricted to HOV during
> certain hours, not just one lane. So the routing should be sensitive only
> to the "avoid" settings -- having nothing to do with type of vehicle or
> number of passengers. But it ALWAYS avoids this HOV segment during HOV
> hours even when set to "Don't Avoid". I want to be able avoid or not avoid,
> at my option. That's the crux of the issue for me.
>
> Yeah, I know someone is saying... "Uh, you live there and drive this road
> every day -- why are you using a GPS?" Well, I do it so when I'm in Los
> Angeles or Orlando or Chicago or Atlanta, I have some idea of how the
> routing characteristics, which helps in real-world navigation in the strange
> and wonderful places where I frequently find myself :-)
>
> --
> Jim Beachy
>
> "Larry G" <gross.la...@gmail.com> wrote in message

>
> news:1190379484.4...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Sep 20, 11:13 pm, "Jim Beachy" <jbea...@cox.net> wrote:
> <HugeSnip>
>
> > my unit does not... it just gets me on the road... and no matter
> > whether it is two or eight lanes... it does not say anything about
> > which lanes...and this is true on multi-lanes with HOV (remember I
> > have a Tom Tom 300)....
>
> > do Garmin units "know" how many lanes there are on a multi-lane
> > highway?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

yeah.. I'm still trying to understand.... in the context .. of how the
GPS would handle HOV... in many different urban areas and states...

is this a problem with the GPS unit - i.e. a clear mistake in
programming...
that would also show up on other HOV roads?

or is there something peculiar and unique about I-66 that makes it
different from most HOVs?

what kind of unit again? I know that the Zumos are made specifically
for motorcycles.. whereas the Nuvi's are more general purpose.

Jim Beachy

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Sep 21, 2007, 6:22:12 PM9/21/07
to
It's a StreetPilot 2720. It has *nothing* to do with the type of vehicle.
It is not sensitive to the type of vehicle. It doesn't care about the type
of vehicle. I don't care about the type of vehicle :-) It has only to do
with the fact that the GPS will not route (for any vehicle) via HOV segments
during the hours HOV restrictions are in place, even when navigation rules
are set to "Don't Avoid" Carpool Lanes. Or at least that's the behavior for
this particular I-66 segment where the whole road (not just a lane or two)
is so designated.

I think it's a software algorithm bug and am just trying to see if anyone
else has this problem either with the 2720 or with City Navigator North
America 2008 (v9).

--
Jim Beachy


"Larry G" <gross...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1190400245....@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...


> On Sep 21, 12:04 pm, "Jim Beachy" <jbea...@cox.net> wrote:
>> The whole I-66 highway segment in question is restricted to HOV during
>> certain hours, not just one lane. So the routing should be sensitive
>> only
>> to the "avoid" settings -- having nothing to do with type of vehicle or
>> number of passengers. But it ALWAYS avoids this HOV segment during HOV
>> hours even when set to "Don't Avoid". I want to be able avoid or not
>> avoid,
>> at my option. That's the crux of the issue for me.

<snip>

Jeffrey Kaplan

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Sep 22, 2007, 1:00:55 AM9/22/07
to
It is alleged that Nick Danger claimed:

> It seems to me that in such situations - where the lanes for two different
> paths are right next to each other - the unit should be able to give you the
> benefit of the doubt and assume that you have gone in the correct direction.

Mine does the exact opposite of yours. It assumes I DID take the
exit/turn when in fact I didn't, and there has to be over a hundred
feet of difference before it realizes this (WAAS on/off does not matter
here).

Then the icon snaps back, it recalculates and the "max speed" indicator
jumps to an insanely large number.

> at about the same location, it could assume it is on Road B. My GPS also
> tells me on its statistics page that the top recorded speed it has observed
> is 370 mph. Someone, either my wife or Jill, has some explaining to do.

See above about the max speed jump. :)

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

"So if I'm feeling insecure, hugging you will make me feel better?"
(Matthew Stoner, B5 "Soul Mates")

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