Navigator is the 'premium' product if you like of the two. They share the
same map and POI data, but Navigator has slightly more detail in some
areas, such as announcements of forthcoming turns etc.
If you can justify the extra cost, go for CN, but CS will work almost as
There is another *very important* difference between the two.
Beginning with Version 7 (at least with the North American maps), the
size of the individual map segments of CN are *much* larger than those
of CS. The larger segments are not a problem for the units for which
CN is recommended, because they generally have enough memory to hold
many such segments, but units for which CS is recommended may not be
able to load more than one of the CN segments at a time. If the
borders of that segment don't happen to match the area you want, you
won't be able to cover the desired area.
> If you can justify the extra cost, go for CN, but CS will work almost as
Based on my previous comment, I must disagree with this advice. You
should buy the map product that Garmin recommends for the unit you buy.
The OP indicated that he was looking for a new GPS, and my
interpretation of his post was that he was wondering whether to buy a
unit that uses CS or CN.
The units that use CN generally give slightly more sophisticated
directions than those that use CS. I'm not certain, but I believe that
only the units designed to work with CN are equipped to give voice
prompts. I use a 76CS with City Select, and I'm completely happy with
the way it works for on-road navigation; but I chose that combination
because I wanted a receiver that could do both on-road auto routing and
also be used for hiking, boating, etc. If I wanted a unit strictly for
on-road navigation, I would have chosen one of the units designed
primarily for that purpose and which use CN.
There is one more thing to consider. Garmin is discontinuing City Select
after v7. After that there
will be no choice for autorouting map software, it will be City Navigator
and its large map segments. If you have a Legend C or Vista C with 24 MB of
memory you may find that is a problem. I have a 76CS and even with 115 MB I
would not have enough memory to be able to pick small map segments along a
long travel route as I do with City Select. And having more than one set
of maps (City Navigator andTopo, e.g.) loaded for the same route would be
out of the question. I have emailed Garmin's tech support
and gotten back a reply indicating the development team may take that into
consideration in the future releases of CN.
> Ivor Jones wrote:
> > Navigator is the 'premium' product if you like of the
> > two. They share the same map and POI data, but
> > Navigator has slightly more detail in some areas, such
> > as announcements of forthcoming turns etc.
> There is another *very important* difference between the
> two. Beginning with Version 7 (at least with the North
> American maps), the size of the individual map segments
> of CN are *much* larger than those of CS. The larger
> segments are not a problem for the units for which CN is
> recommended, because they generally have enough memory to
> hold many such segments, but units for which CS is
> recommended may not be able to load more than one of the
> CN segments at a time. If the borders of that segment
> don't happen to match the area you want, you won't be
> able to cover the desired area.
> > If you can justify the extra cost, go for CN, but CS
> > will work almost as well.
> Based on my previous comment, I must disagree with this
> advice. You should buy the map product that Garmin
> recommends for the unit you buy.
I didn't say otherwise, see below.
> The OP indicated that he was looking for a new GPS, and my
> interpretation of his post was that he was wondering
> whether to buy a unit that uses CS or CN.
I interpreted it as he was asking which of the two was the better product.
> The units that use CN generally give slightly more
> sophisticated directions than those that use CS. I'm not
> certain, but I believe that only the units designed to
> work with CN are equipped to give voice prompts. I use a
> 76CS with City Select, and I'm completely happy with the
> way it works for on-road navigation; but I chose that
> combination because I wanted a receiver that could do
> both on-road auto routing and also be used for hiking,
> boating, etc. If I wanted a unit strictly for on-road
> navigation, I would have chosen one of the units designed
> primarily for that purpose and which use CN.
Fair enough. I haven't done so, but I understand that CN works fine with a
Seems to be a very confusing situation for anybody with a Quest
(particularly the US version), or units with lesser memory.
Garmin appear to be making a significant number of their current
products redundant. Hopefully they will clarify the situation for the
"public" as opposed to the dealers.
The Quest has just about enough memory to still work reasonably with
the larger sections although the current smaller ones would be better.
The units that would really be impacted are those with even less
memory: GPS V (19MB), Map60 (24 MB), LegendC/VistaC (24 MB), and 60c/cs
> Garmin appear to be making a significant number of their current
> products redundant. Hopefully they will clarify the situation for the
> "public" as opposed to the dealers.
This seems to be an issue that hasn't been resolved by Garmin. Several
enquiring emails have been sent to their tech support and the responses
(which have *not* been form letters) indicated that they are still
evaluating approaches but promise to take the owners of units with
limited memory into consideration.
Thank you for Contacting Garmin International. I do not have a lot of
information about what is going to happen when version 7 of City Select is
no longer available. Now, I can tell you this: The units like you have will
be considered when we go to the City Navigator as the mapping product for
the handheld units. There will be changes made to make the software feasible
to all our units that will be using it.
If you have any further questions, feel free to respond to this email or
call our technical support line.
"Klatch" <beaver...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
*Don't* get the current (v7) of CityNavigator-NA for your LegendC. As
noted in earlier posts in this thread, this version has switched to
much larger map region sizes. This isn't a problem for units that have
very large memory sizes, but it's a serious drawback for units like the
LegendC that only have 24 MB. The typical regions in CS-NA are around
2 MB (but with much variation), so you can tailor the area you want to
cover quite effectively. But in CN-NA v7 the regions were increased in
size and are about 15 MB each so you can frequently only load one or
two into a LegendC which isn't good at all if you happen to live near a
border between regions and would therefore frequently need portions of
three or more. It also doesn't let you plot out the route of a longer
trip and choose just the regions along the trip corridor. A few (I
think 4) of the individual regions are even greater than 24 MB so
people with LegendCs can't load those maps at all.
As previously stated, Garmin cust. support has promised that the owners
of units with less memory will be taken into consideration in future
releases of CN. So we can hope that this problem will go away in v8.
But at the moment CS-NA is clearly the preferred product for units like
the GPS V, LegendC, VistaC, and Map60. I'd also prefer it for units
with somewhat larger memory sizes like the 60c/cs, 76c/cs, and Quest I.
<cehol...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
Any way to upgrade from CS to CN, without paying full price again?
A host is a host from coast to coast.................firstname.lastname@example.org
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
>A few (I
>think 4) of the individual regions are even greater than 24 MB so
>people with LegendCs can't load those maps at all.
yep, compounding insult to injury.
southern ontario: 25.3MB
raleigh, nc: 24.3MB
souther missouri: 24.2MB
lower new england: 24.0MB
it's almost five; the dallas, tx map is 23.9MB. as far as i'm
concerned, that one doesn't fit either. :)
quite amazing garmin lists the vista c (and other etrex models) as
compatible with CNv7...and i fell for it.
>... we can hope that this problem will go away in v8.
i know nothing about how these maps are put together, but is it
possible that the refactoring of the maps could be done with an update
to the mapsource program? it would be a real bummer to wait x months,
then pay >$0.01 for an update to have a product once can finally fully
I went to the garmin web page for the gpsmap60 and it recommended city
navigator north america version 7.0. They did not provide an obvious
mechanism for purchasing select so between that and the article that I
had read that select was being discontinued I purchesed navigator.
Last night I spent an hour or so (first gps) trying to figure out how
to jam the Boston area ( >24MB) into the device.
Not sure what I am going to do now.Gar I sent an e-mail to their
support. The way I see it I have a great GPS unit, and nice piece of
software recommended by min for that product, and it just does not
What a screw up on Garmin's behalf. I hope they fix it quick. On their
part I hope they know that had I known this info upfront I may have
made my selection differently.
Thanks for the posts, they confirmed my suspiscions that the whole
mechanism was broken.
>Well this is great information... Wish I had found it 4 days ago. For
>Christmas I received a gpsmap60 which only has 24MB of memory.
misery loves company. thanks for posting. (this was exactly my
experience but with a vista c.) i sent tech support a nasty-gram
yesterday as learning a lot from this group. the frustrating thing is
that garmin's known of this problem but their webpage still says that
CNv7 is compatible with our too-low mem units. (technically it is
compatible, but come on...)
I'm not aware of the niceties of US consumer law but most definitely this
product is not fit for the purpose for which it has been sold so I'm sure
that in the UK you would be within your legal rights to demand your money
back - surely this must also be the case in the US. The Garmin CN NA v7
page does "warn" you that map segments have been increased in size but this
is hyped purely as an advantage, with no hint of any possible problems, and
GPSMAP 60 still appears in the list under "Garmin Recommends".
Just one more example to support my view that Garmin soft/firmware and/or
marketing divisions are staffed principally by incompetent morons - although
I am usually flamed by at least one sycophantic Garmin-licker as a "Garmin
bashing troll" for daring to suggest this!
You guys may be interested in the 60cx with expandable memory. If it
ever gets on the shelves. Maybe you bought the ones you have someplace
that will give you a competitive upgrade to a model that will work. Or
maybe even let you return it. Then you could vote with your feet and
try a different brand that has expandable memory and is a little more
forthright with potential buyers.
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)
>...in the UK you would be within your legal rights to demand your money
>back - surely this must also be the case in the US.
yes, same here, particularly if we don't get satisfaction and soon.
btw, satisfaction, at least for me, would be for them to immediately
send me the now-discontinued city select v7 (which still has tiny
maps), then send the repaired CNv7. reasonable??
>Just one more example to support my view that Garmin soft/firmware and/or
>marketing divisions are staffed principally by incompetent morons...
i'm too new to this game to come to any conclusions, but it is a major
brainfart. i know nothing about magellan in this regard, but have
definately been thinking of ebaying all my garmin stuff and getting
the explorist 500/600. what a pain.
I would rather not have to though, as I would think that garmin could
easily fix this by:
1) Immediately releasing a CN with the map size 1/4 of the current map
2) Allow the user to select the amount of data for each map to be
downloaded; they could easily use the same mechanism they currently
have in place with the low to highest drop down box.
I will probably wait a couple of weeks to see what transpires; if they
don't fix it (I don't have something I can use) I will be voting with
my feet/wallet. With that said, business wise, I do not think they can
afford to do nothing as I imagine their Q4 will probably be pretty
solid but Q1 will be down due to the number of returns.
> i'm too new to this game to come to any conclusions, but it is a major
> brainfart. i know nothing about magellan in this regard, but have
> definately been thinking of ebaying all my garmin stuff and getting
> the explorist 500/600. what a pain.
You might browse and read alt.satellite.gps.magellan for awhile if
you're not reading that already. Magellan is tolerable enough but I
don't think anyone considers them to stand much, if any, ahead of Garmin
The word was on the street last year that the parent company, Thales
Navigation, wants to divest itself of the Magellan line. It may be that
product development and long term development and support is suffering
The general impression I get is that Magellan is not paying enough
attention of bug fixing and firmware updates. That said, the bugs are
more annoying than crippling.
The new eXplorist line is arriving with some bugs and I think firmware
updates are promised or impending. They are probably not doing much
better then Garmin as far as bugs in new products and numbers of
The lack of expandable memory on the Garmins has really backed them into
a corner in some respects. And they just compounded that with the
mapping software upgrades with bigger segments. That badly abused the
memory constraints that were already there. I get the impression that
some see Garmin a company that produces hardware that needs more new
software to go with it.
Some years ago I went with Magellan on some small difference in
features. I stayed there on a combination of wanting to continue to use
the optional mapping packages (Streets & Destinations, DirectRoute,
Topo, Topo 3D, BlueNav) that I acquired to augment the hardware.
At no time since has there been an strong reason to change brands and
open the door for a new wave of needs in optional software. Also I tend
to buy a little on the trailing edge and keep things longer. I think my
Meridians will satisfy me for some time to come.
I still have a Magellan 300 and a MAP 330 that never get used. And I
just got a NAV 6000 too. Maybe I need to open a museum of Magellan.
I'm going to cross post this to the magellan group too. Then we can get
some input from them on the pros and cons of Garmin and Magellan. And
we can watch the "I bought it so it has to be best one" diehards yelling
at each other. :>)
I sent them an e-mail via their support website earlier last week and
have yet to get a response. I listened to their music today for
45minutes hoping to talk to a human being but had to give up and go do
Not sure what I am going to do; would not want to return the device
just to upgrade (spend more money) on a GPS with more memory as that
seems like it would send the wrong message. I question the viability of
some of the other vendors; however, I currently have $300+ worth of
state of the art hard/software that is no better to me than a $40 5
year old GPS off of e-bay. Perhaps just trust my trusty old compass
and map and go about it the old fashioned way; which is unfortunate as
I had business in Boston this week and I was looking forward to using
the device to get me there or atleast from staying lost in that maze of
Good luck to all.
>Anyone get an answer to how Garmin plans on fixing this one.
>I sent them an e-mail via their support website earlier last week and
>have yet to get a response.
still waiting for my response.
>I listened to their music today for
>45minutes hoping to talk to a human being but had to give up and go do
groan. i need to call them about getting a refund on CN. i wish us
all some luck.
>Anyone get an answer to how Garmin plans on fixing this one.
if you still have the packaging, can you return the gpsmap60? a new
post just announced the new 'x' line of units from garmin.
the 'x' line accepts microSD expansion memory cards. (playing catchup
to magellan.) i'm returning my vista c and will wait until the vista
or legend cx hits the street. this change may make moot my CNv7
problem. hope so.
"The iQue 3000 is expected to be available in February 2006 at an
estimated retail price of $399. The standard package includes a
mini-USB synchronization cable, AC wall charger, suction cup mount auto
cradle, microSD Card, 12-volt car charger, companion CD or DVD (US
only) with owner's manual, City Navigator North America NT CD, and
>Are "microSD" cards the same as SD cards - or is this another Garmin
no, it's a real standard. (garmin also calls it a TransFlash card.)
it's about 40% smaller than a standard SD card. there are adapters
you can buy to make a microSD work in a standard SD slot. i checked
on this last night. my laptop has an SD slot, which would be how i'd
want to load maps; assuming garmin's map installation is as simple as
copying a file to a folder on the card (ala magellan).
>Then there is the principal of it; like I said above this
>seems like rewarding them for this blunder; willing to give up on this
>point but it makes me angry.
yep, i understand. i'm on hold with garmin now; i'm hoping i can get
them to take back CNv7. wishful thinking, i guess, but i have to try.
I thnk they are different, but not a Garmin proprietary product.
Yet to see one, though.
And you should be able to use a digicam card reader/writer, too, even
without the built in card slot.
>yep, i understand. i'm on hold with garmin now; i'm hoping i can get
>them to take back CNv7. wishful thinking, i guess, but i have to try.
after 15+ minutes, i got a human. (on my second try.) got a nice
girl named "brandy". (he breaks out in song: "and the sailors say
'brandy, you're a fine girl, what a good wife you would be...", doo
doo da doo doo doo...whistle...whistle.)
anyway, i didn't get a refund. they will however send me CSNAv7. it
should get here on friday. honestly, this is a satisfactory
resolution, particularly since they didn't ask me to send back CNv7.
not that there's anything i can do with it, other than maybe get the
v8 upgrade a little cheaper when it comes out.
>And you should be able to use a digicam card reader/writer, too, even
>without the built in card slot.
yep, forgot to mention that.
Using the phone menu I went to support--> handheld support --> gpsmap
Got a tech named Nicholas.
He was extremely apologetic and did the right thing by letting me keep
City Navigator and sending City Select free of charge. I should have it
I am still not thrilled that this happened, as it shows poor forward
thinking on the company's part; but, was relieved to find that Garmin
was willing to do the correct thing to correct the mistake. I guess we
all make mistakes and hopefully Garmin will learn from this one. My
happiness/satisfaction rating has increased by an order of magnitude.
When choosing City Select there is no clear way to order the software.
When choosing City Navigator there is an obvious way to order the
software but there is no note that describes the downside to choosing
this software for the gpsmap60.
In my opinion City Navigator v7 should not be recommended for the
gpsmap60. If they continue to do so they should ship both City Select
with every copy of City Navigator and lower their support call volume.
tvnav you probably have a contact there, perhaps you could give them
the heads up. It would free up their support personell to answer other
Just a thought...
>no such luck.
okay, i'll bite. :) how do you know. and how does their system
actually work with the microSD card?
>Interestingly, I just checked the Garmin website and it now recommends
>both City Select and City Navigator for the gpsmap60.
yeah, same for the etrexs
> If they continue to do so they should ship both City Select
>with every copy of City Navigator and lower their support call volume.
word up! (late 70's slang for "yeah!") the darn thing is on a dvd
that is only 1/3rd used. they could put both and let people choose
which one to use.
The earlier msg said:
>> my laptop has an SD slot, which would be how i'd
>> want to load maps; assuming garmin's map installation is as simple as
>> copying a file to a folder on the card
I think the assumption is that, like with the current Mapsource-Garmin
setup, you can't simply copy the image files to the unit (or card, in
the case of my SP-III) but must use Mapsource for the task .. similar to
using iTunes to load music in an iPod.
But no reason it has to stay that way with the Cx models (but I bet it
That makes too much sense .. like keeping smaller map segments on City
Nav. They likely won't get it :-(
>I think the assumption is that, like with the current Mapsource-Garmin
>setup, you can't simply copy the image files to the unit (or card, in
>the case of my SP-III....But no reason it has to stay that way with
>the Cx models (but I bet it will).
hmm. okay. i just hope garmin doesn't impose any limits on SD card
size or the amount that can be uploaded through mapsource. (i've read
that the explorists have a limit of 64mb that you can copy to the unit
using mapsend, but that you can copy as much as you want directly to
the card using a PC and the unit will use it.)
Here's a photo of some along with a adapter for using them in SD slots:
wow jack, that was really helpful :)
here are some "better" pics:
this page doesn't seem to work in firefox though. :( try ie or opera.
Link gave me an essentially blank page.
I configured a couple of test routes in the GPSMAP60 with CS by
selecting addresses and dining locations; I found it to provide very
reasonable routes to destinations I already know how to get to.
On the next trip to Boston, I don't think I will get lost for as long
Worked in Safari on a Mac: Thanks!
>Just installed City Select.
yeah, i got mine today also. next day air. gotta be impressed.
installing it now. (of course, i sent back my vista c yesterday, so
i'll have to wait for my pre-ordered vista cx to arrive.)
>I am now a very satisfied customer. Once I
>got to a human being in their tech support...
i think you dropped a sentence. :) why did you call tech support.
>yeah, i got mine today also. next day air. gotta be impressed.
>installing it now.
darn. i can't unlock without having a gps unit. should have expected
that, i guess.
>Mine came with a piece of paper and a 25 character unlock code. I did
>not need the unit to install it or use it.
hmm. i got an 8digit "coupon code" that i had to use on the net. i
called and they say i have to have a unit to unlock. i'd think you
should be able to use the product as a stand-alone; e.g. a replacement
for google maps when you're on the road without internet access. oh
well. guess i have to wait.
Thanks for all the help on the useless link I posted. So there are
SD (24 x 32mm)
Mini-SD (20 x 21.5mm)
Micro-SD (11 x 15mm)
It looks like the mini-SD was or is not much used.
> 4MLA1FN wrote:
>> i'm too new to this game to come to any conclusions, but it is a major
>> brainfart. i know nothing about magellan in this regard, but have
>> definately been thinking of ebaying all my garmin stuff and getting
>> the explorist 500/600. what a pain.
I just checked their website for the gpsmap60 again and they still
recommend cn7 with no additional comments about how it is unusable on
the device for a couple of maps. As stated previously they are now also
recommending cs7 as well but when clicking on that link their is no
easy way to add it to the shopping cart as was done with cn7.
Oh well, I am happy with what I got; just hoped I could save a few
others the hassle.