Anonymous <cri...@ecn.org> wrote:
>THE NAZI TRAPEZOID
>by Tim Maroney
>11 November 1990
Interesting article, which I had never seen before.
Tim Maroney I remember vaguely as someone in
the neopagan community who got his nose out
of joint because of the Temple of Set's disdain for
same, so started working overtime to conjure up
demons for himself in Setian philosophy, aka
Nazi!Nazi!Nazi!Nazi!Nazi!Nazi!Nazi!Nazi!Nazi!
I would write a longer critique, but it's difficult for
me to type right now: I keep having this muscular
spasm problem with my right arm jerking upward.
So I'll just paste in this theological reflection by
Charles Manson:
"Why should I care about people who don't care
about themselves? They all want someone else to
do it for them. They all want to be 'saved', but they
won’t make the first move to save themselves.
They just sit around and wait for someone else to
come to their rescue and save them. Again. All I
have to say is how god damn many times do they
expect him to keep coming back anyway? Every
time he comes back they give him nothing but shit.
He came back during the thirties in Germany and
they still haven’t stopped whining about it."
Ach Tung,
Michael Aquino
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> http://www.totse.com/en/religion/the_occult/trapezoi.html
>
> THE NAZI TRAPEZOID
> by Tim Maroney
> 11 November 1990
>
> There has been much discussion lately within the cloisters of
> occultism of Michael Aquino and his group, the Temple of Set.
> [snip of remainder]
I've always gotten the impression that Tim Maroney sees Nazis in every
dark corner as well as under his bed. As many problems as the ToS has in
an organizational sense, National Socialist sympathizers they're not (at
least not as a generally applicable description).
- Kerry Delf
<k...@efn.org>
--
"In the duel of sex woman fights from a dreadnought
and man from an open raft." --H.L. Mencken
You'll have to excuse Brother Tim; he lives in Berkeley.
Worse, he's not ashamed of it.
I recall on more than one occasion of Drinking of Beer where he hushed me
on some "howling at my ancestors" Lupowskian drunken invenctive in
concerned tones, lest I be mistaken by some one of the locals for one of
those evil Nazi pork butchers.
Kinda funny, 'specially since we're typically accompanied at the saloon by
at least one pulchritudinous shebrew, and none of them have ever asked me
to tone down my language.
>As many problems as the ToS has in
>an organizational sense, National Socialist sympathizers they're not (at
>least not as a generally applicable description).
Much as it pains me to say something nice about Mikey's gang at present, I
agree completely. In fact, I think, after much spending of wind on the
subject, Brother Tim agrees as well.
I will ask him and see.
-Lupo
"The mind is its own place, and in it self can make a Heav'n of Hell, a
Hell of Heav'n." -Milton, Paradise Lost <i...@dillenger.io.com>
I've seen this article before. Yawn. I see nothing wrong with it. The
symbols they (NS) used were in part from a prior Socialist group - and from
the Eastern Esoteric Tradition - the Swastika and the Vajra which people in
the West insist on calling a rune. Both these are extremely occult symbols.
Purely occult.
Swastika is the symbol of the ever moving cosmos, the wheel of LIFE in
movement. The Vajra is the symbol of the Black Flame itself. Combine that
together and you have two powerful symbols representing the most powerful
psychophysical forces in the universe itself.
Damn right - the NS movement in Germany, before it became insane, was
extremely life-affirming, naturalistic and positive. Likewise, the Civil
Rights movement in the USA was extremely positive before it became insane
with victimology/blame-ology and politically correct tyranny. Who can
possibly deny this? I don't even know Jews that would deny the former
statement, if not the latter one about Civil Rights. Not one. If not for
the insane shit Hitler went off and did, with his delusional views of other
ethnic groups (keeping in mind that the man was being fed hallucinogenic
drugs and was pretty sick in his gastrointestinal area - ie in pain) - if
you substract that and consider the positive things? That place would be
hailed as one of the most dynamic examples of COLLECTIVE XEPER, as you'd
probably put that, on the planet, in history for shit's sakes! And you bet:
COLLECTIVE. People don't realize that they had ROCKETS in the 1920's, or
were experimenting with them.
See inside
"Dr. Michael A. Aquino" <xe...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020326120517...@mb-bj.aol.com...
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> Anonymous <cri...@ecn.org> wrote:
>
> >THE NAZI TRAPEZOID
> >by Tim Maroney
> >11 November 1990
>
> Interesting article, which I had never seen before.
> Tim Maroney I remember vaguely as someone in
> the neopagan community who got his nose out
> of joint because of the Temple of Set's disdain for
> same, so started working overtime to conjure up
> demons for himself in Setian philosophy, aka
> Nazi!Nazi!Nazi!Nazi!Nazi!Nazi!Nazi!Nazi!Nazi!
I don't read Tim's essay that way. But anonymous is trying to make the
morons read it that way.
>
> I would write a longer critique, but it's difficult for
> me to type right now: I keep having this muscular
> spasm problem with my right arm jerking upward.
LOL. You think it could be arthir.....nah...
> So I'll just paste in this theological reflection by
> Charles Manson:
>
> "Why should I care about people who don't care
> about themselves? They all want someone else to
> do it for them. They all want to be 'saved', but they
> won't make the first move to save themselves.
> They just sit around and wait for someone else to
> come to their rescue and save them. Again. All I
> have to say is how god damn many times do they
> expect him to keep coming back anyway? Every
> time he comes back they give him nothing but shit.
> He came back during the thirties in Germany and
> they still haven't stopped whining about it."
LMAO.
>
> Ach Tung,
> Michael Aquino
I know NOTHING.
Sgt. Schultz
The message from Aquino is pretty bizarre. I wonder if it's really
Aquino, since he certainly has seen the file before. It was a major
controversy in the Temple for years, and every Setian I've ever met
remembers it.
I know you've witnessed at least two discussions of the issue between
myself and Setians we've run into at the clubs. They've followed the
same pattern when you're not around. The Setian has always heard of me
and of the controversy, and they're never noticeably upset about it.
To them I generally say that I withdrew the piece after Aquino finally
came out with an unambiguous condemnation of the Holocaust, which he
refused to do for several years, referring to all concerns about the
issue as "bashing comic-book Nazis" and in similarly facile and
dismissive ways. At the time I wrote "The Nazi Trapezoid," Aquino was
endorsing the Leuchter report -- in fact he was the person from whom I
first heard of it -- but a few years later he finally came around, and
so I was willing to withdraw my article, since my objective in
criticism is to encourage improvement. In these recent conversations
with Setians, I then go on to say that my impression is that there was
a serious problem with Holocaust revisionism in the Temple back in the
1980's and early 1990's, but that it seems to have changed for the
better since then.
In response I almost always hear the same thing, which is that Stephen
Flowers is still that way, and that some of the people who hang around
with him are as well, but that he doesn't force it down anyone's
throat any more, and that the Order of the Trapezoid in particular has
become quite multicultural. Since I keep hearing this, and since it is
in line with what is indicated by my own investigations -- e.g., the
downplaying of the significance of the Holocaust in Flowers' recent
"Lords of the Left-hand Path" -- I'm inclined to adopt this as a
correct model of the (d)evolution of Nazi sympathy in the Temple. At
the time I wrote "The Nazi Trapezoid" revisionism was a major thread
in ToS, but now it is a minor thread at best.
I've been happy to let sleeping dogs lie on this one, because as Delf
observes, "As many problems as the ToS has in an organizational sense,
National Socialist sympathizers they're not (at least not as a
generally applicable description)." As long as the Temple has ceased
to actively spread revisionist propaganda, which it was doing in the
1980's, then I have no reason to make an issue out of it, and I've
avoided making any statements in print as part of my agreement to
withdraw the piece. I think it was not particularly wise for Aquino to
dredge up this old issue in such a defamatory and forgetful way, since
his hands are not clean, and the hands of one of his chief lieutenants
remain distinctly fillhy.
--
Tim Maroney t...@maroney.org
t...@maroney.org (Tim Maroney) wrote:
>The message from Aquino is pretty bizarre.
Post a bizarre article, get a bizarre response.
>I wonder if it's really Aquino, since he certainly has
>seen the file before.
Could be, though I don't remember it and don't have
a copy of it on file. If I saw it before, I gather it impressed
me then about as much as it does now, i.e. as a crude
attempt at fomenting an "anti-Semitic witch hunt".
>It was a major controversy in the Temple for years,
>and every Setian I've ever met remembers it.
Gee whiz, was it really? Personally I can't think of
a single Setian who's brought this up as any kind of
serious issue. Which isn't to say that we haven't heard
about various anti-Temple of Set droolers running
around screaming "Nazi!" [along with "Bilderburger!",
"Trilateral Commission!", "Majestic-12!" and so on].
>Aquino finally came out with an unambiguous
>condemnation of the Holocaust
What I condemn are *all* acts of genocide, extermination,
and military brutality against civilian populations. I
do not consider that any one such action deserves
privileged attention above all the others, or relegation
below them.
So if you were to ask me about the deaths of Jews in
World War II, I'd condemn them no more and no less
fervently than I'd condemn the deaths of German
civilians firebombed in Dresden, the deaths of Gypsies
and Slavs, the deaths of American civilians killed at
Pearl Harbor, the deaths of Japanese civilians
killed at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and the deaths of
Chinese civilians killed during the Japanese invasion
(among many other examples).
That's the thing about World War II: There was plenty
of undeserved, unfortunate death to go around. I
think the Soviet Union alone lost something like 30 million
people. Figures like that are beyond most people's ability
to grasp. To single out any single group of sufferers or
victims of the war for preferential status is to degrade
the value of the lives of all others, which I will *not* do.
>Aquino was endorsing the Leuchter report -- in fact he
>was the person from whom I first heard of it -- but a few
>years later he finally came around, and so I was willing
>to withdraw my article, since my objective in criticism
>is to encourage improvement.
At no time have I ever said that I endorse the Leuchter
Report; I have said only that I found it surprising and
interesting reading, which remains my arms'-length
impression today. I've read occasional analyses &
criticisms of it, which are also interesting, but this is
not really a fixation of mine, and I have no interest in
making it one.
I certainly would not compromise my ethics or honest
opinions simply to beg your approval, or out of any
respect whatever for an absurd article like this one
of yours.
>I almost always hear the same thing, which is that
>Stephen Flowers is still that way ...
What "way"?
>he doesn't force it down anyone's throat any more
What "it" do you claim he was forcing down whose
throat when?
>the Order of the Trapezoid in particular has
>become quite multicultural.
At what point was it not "multicultural"? And
why should *any* Order of the Temple of Set
compromise its magical purpose by admitting
[or not admitting] any of its members on the
basis of their "culture"? And how, by the way,
do you define "culture" in the context in which
you use it here?
>the downplaying of the significance of the Holocaust
>in Flowers' recent "Lords of the Left-hand Path"
How and where do you contend that Flowers "downplayed"
it, and how do you contend that it should have been
"played"? By what right do you dictate that Flowers
should be required to make any mention at all of this
topic in _Lords_?
>At the time I wrote "The Nazi Trapezoid" revisionism
>was a major thread in ToS, but now it is a minor
>thread at best.
You've never been a Setian, or in attendance at any
of the Temple of Set's [or its Orders'] philosophical
discussions, conclaves, or symposia, so you're in no
position whatever to judge its regard for accuracy
in history. And certainly not after the showcasing
of your own prejudicial bias and agenda as showcased
in "Nazi Trapezoid".
"Revisionism" is of course a transparently
propagandistic term, used to disparage any
interpretation of history other than the currently
fashionable/politically-correct one. [Ironically the
term has been adopted by some who claim to be
setting biased or agenda-driven historical distortions
straight; this of course only plays right into the
hands of the f/pc propagandists.]
>As long as the Temple has ceased to actively spread
>revisionist propaganda, which it was doing in the
>1980's ...
What "revisionist propaganda" do you claim the Temple
of Set to have "spread"?
>I've avoided making any statements in print as part
>of my agreement to withdraw the piece.
I certainly made no agreement with you to get you
to "withdraw" that article from anywhere; I wouldn't
for a moment consider so dignifying rubbish like that.
>I think it was not particularly wise for Aquino to
>dredge up this old issue in such a defamatory and
>forgetful way
You accuse me of being a Nazi and the Temple of Set
of pursuing a Nazi agenda, and when I reject such
nonsense I am "defaming" you? *That's* a laugh.
>since his hands are not clean, and the hands of one
>of his chief lieutenants remain distinctly fillhy.
Given the bias, ignorance, prejudice, and malice
of your article, you are scarcely in a position to
set yourself up as a moral judge of Flowers,
myself, or anyone else for that matter.
Michael Aquino
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And besides Tim; you've gone so far as to have eaten SUSHI with Brother
Lupo, which makes you even worse than Scratch!
You big, bad, scoundrelly fellow, you!
FWIIW; I believe the Nazi crack originated when I was fulminating against
Christian the Jew: something about my wanting to shove him into an oven.
-Lupo
"This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence"
-Young One Vyv <i...@dillenger.io.com>
That is a form of revision in a way - I believe Goldhagen for one reason: I
grew up with alot of survivors that had a very different story to tell, from
the standard "mechanized conveyor belt" extermination in some camps. I
would assume that those mechanically gassed wouldn't be telling stories, or
be witnesses to the stuff Goldhagen dug up.
What do you think?
TJ
"Tim Maroney" <t...@maroney.org> wrote in message
news:49ed70ff.02032...@posting.google.com...