"Pagan/Satanic" Pentagram in Islam?
Abdul-Khinzeer Kalb'ullaah al-Murtad Shabazz
my musings. I'm always interested in seeing how the kuffaar ("non
believers," "infidels") see Islam, particularly those who have only a
cursory knowledge of the religion. This is because, at times, some
objections to Islam are rather colorful.
Now, on such "colorful" objection was put forth by a female friend who
is deeply spiritual but not part of any traditional religion (there
are a lot of people like this in the west). Now, while she, at times,
aligns herself with Wicca and/or New Age paganism, she has a deep
aversion towards five pointed stars. So, her objection to Islam was
the (unofficial) symbol that represents the religion. She said the
five pointed star represents the goat, which means the devil, maybe
Muhammad was a capricorn, et cetera...
It seemed silly at first (don't get me wrong, it still does), but I
was looking around on the net and found the following page:
http://www.joes.com/home/dnaquran/
The content is that of another one of these "Islamic miracles" sites,
and may interest some. Anyway, the image at the top of the page caught
my eye. I'll be damned if there isn't a pentagram in there, and a very
sinister one at that! :)
Anyway, I was curious as to people's thoughts (Muslims and non-Muslim,
Christian, Pagan, Satanist, Wiccan, or otherwise) on the five pointed
star in Islam... its origins, its possible meanings, et cetera. What
does this symbol mean to you, if anything?
Note, this is not meant by me to be a serious conversation that will
uncover some hidden sinister nature of the religion of Islam; rather,
I'm just asking some light questions to pool some ideas. I look
forward to comments.
Abdul-Khinzeer
Brenda G. Tataryn
> "Pagan/Satanic" Pentagram in Islam?
>
> From: abuk...@yahoo.com (Abdul-Khinzeer Kalb'ullaah al-Murtad
> Shabazz)
> Reply to: [1] Abdul-Khinzeer Kalb'ullaah al-Murtad Shabazz
> Date: 10 Nov 2001 16:35:39 -0800
***snip
>the (unofficial) symbol that represents the religion. She said the
>five pointed star represents the goat, which means the devil, maybe
>Muhammad was a capricorn, et cetera...
>
**** goats are just sweet animals who have been *scape-goated* it seems.
**snip
>Anyway, I was curious as to people's thoughts (Muslims and non-Muslim,
>Christian, Pagan, Satanist, Wiccan, or otherwise) on the five pointed
>star in Islam... its origins, its possible meanings, et cetera. What
>does this symbol mean to you, if anything?
>
**** are there not five attributes to being a good Muslim?
Could the five attributes align themselves with the pentagram as a
teaching or symbol tool?
>Note, this is not meant by me to be a serious conversation that will
>uncover some hidden sinister nature of the religion of Islam; rather,
>I'm just asking some light questions to pool some ideas. I look
>forward to comments.
>
>Abdul-Khinzeer
***Brenda
Brenda G. Tataryn
> Re: "Pagan/Satanic" Pentagram in Islam?
>
> From: wt...@victoria.tc.ca (Brenda G. Tataryn)
> Reply to: [1] Brenda G. Tataryn
> Date: 10 Nov 2001 17:37:42 -0800
>**** are there not five attributes to being a good Muslim?
>Could the five attributes align themselves with the pentagram as a
>teaching or symbol tool?
>
****** whooops! not five attributes but five pillars?
(would'nt want to be accused of using the wrong word for the wrong
meaning)
;)
Brenda
Puck T. Smith
> Note, this is not meant by me to be a serious conversation
> that will uncover some hidden sinister nature of the
> religion of Islam; rather, I'm just asking some light
> questions to pool some ideas. I look forward to comments.
>
Interesting question.
On a personal note, long before I realized I am pagan I had
occasion to live in a community with many Muslims, both American
and otherwise. Because of my many Muslim friends I was familiar
with the practice of Ramadan. Since the Islamic calendar is
lunar the following incident is not coincidental.
I was taking a walk one evening, two or three days after the
close of Ramadan, and happened to look toward the horizon after
sunset. I saw a beautiful crescent Moon with Venus a little bit
above it and to the left. It was a bit of an epiphany for me and
I had an intuitive grasp of why the crescent and star was the
symbol of Islam. Something about the sight that greets them at
the end of the holy month. I couldn't put it in words, I just
knew. That's all anecdotal and probably meaningless so take it
with a grain of salt.
I just did a google.com search and found the following
information:
"The crescent moon and star symbol actually pre-dates Islam by
several thousand years. Information on the origins of the symbol
are difficult to ascertain, but most sources agree that these
ancient celestial symbols were in use by the peoples of Central
Asia and Siberia in their worship of sun, moon, and sky gods.
There are also reports that the crescent moon and star were used
to represent the Carthaginian goddess Tanit or the Greek goddess
Diana.
"The city of Byzantium (later known as Constantinople and
Istanbul) adopted the crescent moon symbol. According to some
reports, they chose it in honor of the goddess Diana. Others
indicate that it dates back to a battle in which the Romans
defeated the Goths on the first day of a lunar month. In any
event, the crescent moon was featured on the city's flag even
before the birth of Christ.
"The early Muslim community did not really have a symbol. During
the time of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), Islamic
armies and caravans flew simple solid-colored flags (generally
black, green, or white) for identification purposes. In later
generations, the Muslim leaders continued to use a simple black,
white, or green flag with no markings, writing, or symbolism on
it.
"It wasn't until the Ottoman Empire that the crescent moon and
star became affiliated with the Muslim world. When the Turks
conquered Constantinople (Istanbul) in 1453, they adopted the
city's existing flag and symbol. Legend holds that the founder of
the Ottoman Empire, Osman, had a dream in which the crescent moon
stretched from one end of the earth to the other. Taking this as
a good omen, he chose to keep the crescent and make it the symbol
of his dynasty. There is speculation that the five points on the
star represent the five pillars of Islam, but this is pure
conjecture. The five points were not standard on the Ottoman
flags, and as you will see on the following page, it is still not
standard on flags used in the Muslim world today."
http://islam.about.com/library/weekly/aa060401a.htm
Another sight, whose information is probably not quite as
credible as that at about.com, had an interesting tidbit:
"The star and crescent" was first hoisted on behalf of the
Muslims by Mahomet II after the capture of Constantinople in 1453
CE. Prior to that, it was common on the arm of knight and
esquires. A star within a crescent was a badge of Richard I, 250
years before Constantinople fell. They quit using it when it
became the banner of Muslims. It has been used more and more ever
since by Muslims in a way to identify themselves.
http://www.themodernreligion.com/misc/hh/crescent.html
For me, personally, the crescent Moon is a symbol of the Great
Goddess in her youth. My favorite time of the month is shortly
after the new Moon when Diana's Bow--the crescent Moon--is
visible shortly after sunset. If always fills me with awe to see
it and the sight always transports me, if only for a few seconds,
into a near trance-like mystical state. When it is accompanied by
Venus it is all the more wonderful. Looking back I suppose my
epiphany after Ramadan was more about my spiritual quest than it
was about what my spurious insight into Islam.
--
Puck the Smith [p_t_smith (at) hotmail (dot) com]
http://www.spellexchange.com/arwmfaces/ptsmith.html
***************************************************
The Earth is a witch and the men still burn her.
--Charlie Murphy
People's Commissar
cultures see this url
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/s-t-p.html
It's not Islamic at all - it's not even Arabian.
As for the pentagram itself, two points up, it's all over buildings in
American cities that are Eastern Star Order of Freemasonry. It's
Pythagorean.
TJ
--
Satanic Reds http://satanicreds.says.it
Or, http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/
Unique - check it out!
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/dd-ad.html
Member of the Satanic Council
http://www.geocities.com/sataniccouncil/mainmenu.html
Dark Doctrines part of Satanic Reds Org.
http://www.apodion.com/vad/dark/
SLAVA NAM! POWER TO THE WORKING PEOPLE!
"Abdul-Khinzeer Kalb'ullaah al-Murtad Shabazz" <abuk...@yahoo.com> wrote in
message news:7d1337a8.01111...@posting.google.com...
People's Commissar
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/s-t-p.html
As for the 5 - it's totally ubiquitous in real LHP. 5 priciples or daimones
in Pythagorean, 5 Dharmas in Tantra, five somethings in Confucius too -
always five in the East and definitely in all of LHP. It ties into the
septenary system, sometimes made into 8 instead of 7 by including the
"void."
The star, 2 points up, is not inversed - it's a HOUSE (meaning the self, the
cosmos, layered meanings) with give blazing angles (pentagonas) surrounding
it representing principles in nature. The symbol itself means Health in the
broadest and most all encompassing meaning - usually of the inner kind. (It
doesn't mean you don't get colds).
See inside.
"Puck T. Smith" <p_t_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9156872E77...@207.217.77.22...
> On a personal note, long before I realized I am pagan I had
> occasion to live in a community with many Muslims, both American
> and otherwise. Because of my many Muslim friends I was familiar
> with the practice of Ramadan. Since the Islamic calendar is
> lunar the following incident is not coincidental.
So is the Jewish calendar - it's a hold over from earlier times. I think
the Chinese calendar is lunar also.
>
> I was taking a walk one evening, two or three days after the
> close of Ramadan, and happened to look toward the horizon after
> sunset. I saw a beautiful crescent Moon with Venus a little bit
> above it and to the left. It was a bit of an epiphany for me and
> I had an intuitive grasp of why the crescent and star was the
> symbol of Islam. Something about the sight that greets them at
> the end of the holy month. I couldn't put it in words, I just
> knew. That's all anecdotal and probably meaningless so take it
> with a grain of salt.
Yup, it looks like the symbol - crescent moon and planet Venus.
>
> I just did a google.com search and found the following
> information:
>
> "The crescent moon and star symbol actually pre-dates Islam by
> several thousand years. Information on the origins of the symbol
> are difficult to ascertain, but most sources agree that these
> ancient celestial symbols were in use by the peoples of Central
> Asia and Siberia in their worship of sun, moon, and sky gods.
> There are also reports that the crescent moon and star were used
> to represent the Carthaginian goddess Tanit or the Greek goddess
> Diana.
Not difficult to get anymore:
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/s-t-p.html
Racists___Religions
1.Church is "two bodies, one Black Christian, one white
Christian-separate and divided.
2.Sudras (Untouchables Hindus)
Hindu Church is "two bodies, one Brahmin Hindu , one Untouchable Hindu
separate and divided.
The holocaust was sponsored by "Christians".
American slavery was "justified" by "Christians".
Please visit:
Sudras (Untouchables Hindus) Holocaust Museum
http://www.dalitstan.org/holocaust/
Fight White Power
Fight Brahmin Hindu Power
Fight Imperialism
Fight Racism
Raven
> ... some objections to Islam are rather colorful.
>
> Now, one such "colorful" objection was put forth by a female friend who
> is deeply spiritual but not part of any traditional religion (there
> are a lot of people like this in the west). Now, while she, at times,
> aligns herself with Wicca and/or New Age paganism, she has a deep
> aversion towards five pointed stars. So, her objection to Islam was
> the (unofficial) symbol that represents the religion. She said the
> five pointed star represents the goat, which means the devil, maybe
> Muhammad was a capricorn, et cetera...
So, do the five-pointed stars on the United States flag represent 50 goats?
This "star" is a good old-fashioned heraldic charge, called a "mullet", and
appears in very many coats of arms of quite Christian noblemen and cities,
as well as the flag of the distinctly atheistic Chinese People's Republic.
It has no religious significance. It usually represents... well... a star,
one of those points of light we see in the night sky, presumably placed there
by the Creator of your choice.
Your friend may be thinking of the similar five-pointed design called a
"pentagram", which is not solid but an interwoven angled line, resembling
the type of art called "knotwork". This is also called "the Endless Knot".
The pentagram is the design on the flag of Morocco (where it is green upon
a red background -- quite striking). It was also, according to legend, the
design on the shield of that most Christian knight, Sir Gawain (where it was
gold upon red). And it has been attributed to ancient groups of philosophers
ranging from the Druids to the Pythagoreans.
Here are two books you might enjoy reading, or just looking through:
Rudolf Koch's THE BOOK OF SIGNS, 1930, reprinted by Dover since 1955;
Clarence P. Hornung, HANDBOOK OF DESIGNS AND DEVICES, 1932, reprinted
by Dover since 1946. (Dover Books has many beautiful books on design.)
Koch, re PENTAGRAM: "The pentagram, a five-pointed star drawn with one
stroke of the pen: this sign belongs, as do many others depicted here,
to the most primitive of mankind, and is certainly much older than
written characters. Signs of this kind are quite the most ancient
human documents we possess. The pentagram has had several different
significations at different times in the history of man. The
Pythagoreans called it the pentalpha, and the Celtic priests the
witch's foot. It is also Solomon's seal, known in the Middle Ages
as the goblin's cross. It also represents the five senses; the male
and female principles are also conveyed by the arrangement of the
five points. Amongst the druids it was the sign of Godhead, and to
the Jews it signified the five Mosaic Books. This sign was also
popularly believed to be a protection against demons, and, by analogy,
a symbol of safety. It is believed too to be the emblem of happy
homecoming, whence its employment as an amulet. In ancient times
it was a magic charm amongst the people of Babylon."
Hornung, re PENTAGRAM: "The five-pointed star... As a continuous
interlacement,... it is called the pentacle, or pentagram, and becomes
an important element in the history of magic and witchcraft, with many
mystic interpretations. It is an ingenious development used in ancient
times by the Pythagoreans and others as the pentalpha, an emblem of
perfection. This sign was also regarded as a protective fetish, and
was frequently worn as an amulet."
Some years back, ranger <ran...@twain.ucs.umass.edu> had written:
"The pentagram has ment many things to many different people/groups thoughout
history, including strangely enough within the Catholic church itself,
during various parts of the middle ages it was seen as a symbol of truth,
you can find indications of this in some Arthurian legends (i don't recall
the details, however one of the knights in one of the accounts was supposed
to have a shield with the symbol)."
I replied:
Gawain, in the medieval verse-tale SIR GAWAIN AND THE GREEN KNIGHT.
I strongly recommend J.R.R. Tolkien's wonderful translation,
which retains much of the Old English alliterative form.
Stanzas 27-28:
Then they brought him his blazon that was of brilliant gules
with the pentangle depicted in pure hue of gold.
By the baldric he caught it and about his neck cast it:
right well and worthily it went with that knight.
And why the pentangle is proper to that prince so noble
I intend now to tell you, though it may tarry my story.
It is a sign that Solomon once set on a time
to betoken Troth, as it is entitled to do;
for it is a figure that in it five points holdeth,
and each line overlaps and is linked with another,
and every way it is endless; and the English, I hear,
everywhere name it the Endless Knot.
So it suits well this knight and his unsullied arms;
for ever faithful in five points, and five times under each,
Gawain as good was acknowledged and as gold refine'd,
devoid of every vice and with virtues adorned.
So there
the pentangle painted new
he on shield and coat did wear
as one of word most true
and knight of bearing fair.
First faultless was he found in his five senses,
and next in his five fingers he failed at no time,
and firmly on the Five Wounds all his faith was set
that Christ received on the cross, as the Creed tells us;
and wherever the brave man into battle was come,
on this beyond all things was his earnest thought:
that ever from the Five Joys all his valour he gained
that to Heaven's courteous Queen once came from her Child.
For which cause the knight had in comely wise
on the inner side of his shield her image depainted,
that when he cast his eyes thither his courage never failed.
The fifth five that was used, as I find, by this knight
was free-giving and friendliness first before all,
and chastity and chivalry ever changeless and straight,
and piety surpassing all points: these perfect five
were hasped upon him harder than on any man else.
Now these five series, in sooth, were fastened on this knight,
and each was knit with another and had no ending,
but were fixed at five points that failed not at all,
coincided in no line nor sundered either,
not ending in any angle anywhere, as I discover,
wherever the process was put in play or passed to an end.
Therefore on his shining shield was shaped now this knot,
royally with red gules upon red gold set:
this is the pure pentangle as people of learning
have taught.
Now Gawain in brave array
his lance at last hath caught.
He gave them all good day
for evermore as he thought.
1MAN4ALL
"Brenda G. Tataryn" wrote:
> **** goats are just sweet animals who have been *scape-goated* it seems.
>
> **snip
> >Anyway, I was curious as to people's thoughts (Muslims and non-Muslim,
> >Christian, Pagan, Satanist, Wiccan, or otherwise) on the five pointed
> >star in Islam... its origins, its possible meanings, et cetera. What
> >does this symbol mean to you, if anything?
> >
See this web site:
http://islam.about.com/library/weekly/aa060401a.htm
pisyedili
> star became affiliated with the Muslim world. When the Turks
> conquered Constantinople (Istanbul) in 1453, they adopted the
> city's existing flag and symbol.
Crescent and star was used in Turkish flags at least 400 years BEFORE
they conquered Istanbul. This symbol dates back to shamanistic religion
of Turkish tribes when they were living in Central Asia.
There is not one single crescent and moon symbol in pre-Turk Istanbul.
During the Ottoman Empire, Turkish flag became unanimous with Islam.
People's Commissar
detailed article on here.
"pisyedili" <pisy...@programmer.net> wrote in message
news:1da6f7dd.01111...@posting.google.com...
gentianb...@gmail.com
whitemu...@gmail.com
First, the pentagram represents the Seal of Solomon. This is important because most non-Muslims do not know that the Qur'an states Solomon was a Prophet of God who was given the power to command the Jinn. Unlike Christianity, Islam does not believe that Solomon strayed and became a disbeliever. Second, the pentagram also represents the Five Pillars of Islam. It is green because that is the color of Islam and also for peace.
I wish all pagans would research Islam because it believes that all religions have some truth in them including nature religions, but it masterfully incorporates all religions if you can read the signs. In fact, Islam is the ultimate nature religion and we even follow a lunar calendar. Once I learned about the existence of the Jinn, then paganism became as backward as Christianity to me.
It is also important to note that Islam does not believe in using symbols at all because people may start to worship them like Christians do with the crucifix. This is also why we do not use images of the Prophet Muhammad because he himself did not want people to make the mistake that Christians did by starting to worship Jesus and Mary instead of God alone.
Salam.
Matthew