Tani's new CoS!

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Aug 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/9/00
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PROJECT 1
By: Timothy Stewart Epperhart - "Wolf At Hart"
The successes of fascism easily make people lose all perspective and result
in their forgetting, or being ignorant of the actual conditions which made
the strengthening and the victory of fascism possible.

Introduction:
First of all, I'm going to allow the readers of this document to understand
that this project came about from a simple letter and correspondence over
E-mail; Initially my intentions were set on making an in depth article with
the help of some acquaintances, and in some cases non-acquaintances if that
was their choice: And yes, there was choice. Speak up and be heard: or shut
up!
Here is the Original Letter:
I am going to analyze the "ideal of Fascism" that we see within the Satanic
movement at the present time. I asked for both sides and hoped for an
historically objective account.

The statements made by Magistrate Nadramia in her "speculation on
similarities between Fascism and Satanism" are noted and should be viewed
for relevance. The URL for that article is:

http://www.apodion.com/vad/cos/s_n_nazi.shtml

The Fascist, a/k/a Nazi movement initially had specific criteria which are
notable. The Nazis are well known for their treatment of the Jews in their
area, which they exterminated for being "a weaker race." Scientists do
acknowledge a similarity in "Jewish People" or Semites, via gene analysis,
but such analysis didn't exist during those times; needless to say, the
Nazis viewed the Jews not as a religion, but as a race. The best solution
the Nazis came up with for so-called stratification, was to adopt the most
potent political system at their disposal: Fascism. This was Nazism.

But the "ideal of fascism" present today in Satanism is founded upon the
notion that certain magical meanings exist behind ancient symbols, e.g., the
Swastika. Also influencing them is that the Swastika is looked upon as being
"Evil" like the Sigil of Baphomet. The Swastika was considered a very
atrocious thing. What the Swastika actually meant in the past has no bearing
on any of this, regardless of Herd Misconceptions.

"Amidst the Hitlerian concept of strength through joy!" -ASL, The Satanic
Bible.

Indeed, Hitler was no fool when he offered the people freedom on a personal
level, but the way that it was done was wrong and is opposed to Church of
Satan doctrine. Herd mentality is a sin in CoS doctrine and it is noted: how
else would the Nazis be able to exterminate a race? On a personal level? Was
this a way for an ideal form of stratification? Is murder stratification,
and would these actions be "justified" because they were founded upon a
Fascistic point of view?

E-Mail Observations and information to mrtimoth...@hotmail.com

I look forward to writing this article, in any case. Thank you for
participation.

Hail Satan!

Hail the Church of Satan!

Timothy Stewart


Responses:
Mr. Stewart,

In the "Questions and Answers" section in the general access area of this
board is a thread called "Satanism and Freedom." Both posts I placed in that
thread deal with areas of convergence in the Satanic/Fascistic dynamic, and
some of their values.

GnosiSinistrć,

CJT

"Now I know that truth, beauty and nobility are eternal. They cannot be
debased by the Lie. They cannot be destroyed by the Lie. Only mankind can be
debased by the Lie; the Lie is not an enemy of truth, it is an ally of
truth. It prepares the way, it balances the books and it cleans the slate.
Now I've learned to love the Lie. I love the poison it spreads and I love
the weakness it engenders."

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Dear Readers,

I went to the place specified in this message and did not find any articles.
I replied a second time and attempted to get these articles but with no
luck. Finally, a third time, explaining to Chris Turner that the articles
were not on the website, I waited over one week. The reply I received was
similar to this one; in essence, Mr. Turner chose to tell me to "go fetch
the article." Well, the article is nowhere to be fetched and no one else can
locate it either. I find this overt evasion curious. I find it curious that
the articles are missing since I announced this Project. I find it even more
curious that Mr. Turner found it easier to email me a message like this
instead of just emailing me his articles. Perhaps he never saved them,
perhaps they are lost.

Citizen Stewart

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Dear Citizen Stewart,

Fascism, which is often thought to include the historic National Socialist
movement of the German Workers' Party (NSDAP), at least in its latter,
deteriorating stages, is a word often used and meant now to include forms of
political regime like that of Benito Mussolini of Italy, and Francisco Fanco
of Spain. Unlike Marxism, fascism involved no clear or specific
interpretation of history, nor any systematic interpretation of ideology,
which makes commentary upon this subject difficult. In every case of
fascism, however, there was a clear negative reaction against socialist and
democratic equalitarianism (equal rights as citizens, equal chances for all
regardless of gender or race). In general, there was a strong fear, by both
fascist and National Socialist leaders, like Adolf Hitler, of revolution,
subsequent chaos, anarchy, and general insecurity. Pride and prejudice,
exploiting vulgar anti-Semitism, were appealed to by National Socialist and
fascist leaders, which is hardly Satanic. In essence, every fascist and
National Socialist movement, including that of the NSDAP, has appealed to
law, order, and Christian morality, no matter how you look at it. The
glorification of the state, and the subordination of the individual to the
state, are of its essence as well - again, hardly Satanic. The credo of all
forms of fascism is "believe, obey, fight." This is diametrically opposed to
the credo of Satanism, which has the exact opposite credo: "doubt, rebel,
make love."

There is a false version of Darwinism involved in National Socialist
doctrine. This is the idea that an individual bears the genetic imprint of
superiority by being a member of a specific race, in particular, the "Aryan"
race. I believe there are inherently Satanic individuals, but they, as a
group, by no means coincide with members of the so-called Aryan race. Dr.
LaVey himself, at least part Jew and definitely not Aryan, said that
Satanists and Jews have been almost automatically aligned throughout
history, so anti-Semitic movements like that of Adolf Hitler's are not
likely to be Satanic. Or else LaVey was wrong on this, as I do not think he
was.

Undoubtedly the elitist bent of National Socialist movements has captured
the imagination of superficial, present-day, American "Satanists." Not only
this, but it is known that an inner core of the Thule Gesellchaft (Society)
attended a famous historic meeting of Hitler's German Workers' Party to take
a look at Hitler. The inner circle of this Thule group did indeed espouse
"Satanism" and practice ritualistic "Black Magic." But in reality, these
personages were not allied with the dark forces, as was LaVey, but rather
were died-in-the-wool proponents of the Theosophy of Madame Blavastsky. I
challenge anyone reading this to refute historically what I am saying.
Blavatsky was, in fact, an advocate of the forces of light. (Nothing wrong
with that.) In fact, the swastika itself, appealing to Blavatsky, to
so-called "Satanists" of the Third Reich, and to their modern day
aficionados who consider themselves "Satanists," is a symbol of the light,
not of the dark, as the pentacle is. Almost any symbol based on four points
or four-fold symmetry instead of five is a symbol of cosmos, not of the
great dark which, as Goethe's character Mephistopheles said, once was All.
Likewise, the well-known lightning bolt of Himmler's SS is a symbol, once
again, of the primal light as it came forth from the dark void - but the
"Holy of Holies" of a true Satanist - which preceded this light is the
Darkness.

There were about forty members of the Thule Gesellschaft who attended the
aforesaid meeting of the German Workers' Party. I have investigated most of
them. That is why I can challenge readers of this post to attempt to refute
me. It will be in vain, and you will only show your own ignorance - not a
Satanic quality. Prominent among the attendees of this meeting was Dietrich
Eckhardt, an early member of the Thule group, as well as his acquaintance,
the so-called Count Heinrich von Sebbetendorf (or Sebbotendorf), the actual
founder of the Thule Gesellschaft. The "Count" established it as an offshoot
of an anti-Semitic lodge of the ancient Germanenorden. Eckhardt himself
found out that this "nobleman's" real name was not Sebbetendorf, but Rudolph
Glauer, the son of a locomotive engine-driver from Dresden. Again, nothing
wrong with that, but there is something wrong with being a phony. Most
un-Satanic. Glauer claimed he had been officially adopted under "Turkish
law" by the Count Heinrich von Sebbetendof, and therefore had a right to
this title. Eckhardt, for reasons I won't go into here, made no attempt to
expose him nor undermine his fake reputation, as he could have. Suffice it
to say that Eckhardt did not want to undermine the power and prestige of the
Thule Gesellschaft when it was beginning to establish itself in Bavaria.
Glauer was influenced, as I said, by Blavatsky's doctrines of Light from her
two volume work The Secret Doctrine, but didn't know the difference between
dark doctrines and forces vs. light ones. He also studied Sufi meditation
and Oriental philosophy, again without knowing the difference. The least
that can be said of Dr. LaVey is that, however he did so, he seems to have
had at least an inkling of the difference.

I have chosen details about Glauer to illustrate what was the case of all of
these Thule members. They were not Satanists. Glauer, General Karl
Haushofer, and others members simply transposed Blavatsky's descriptions and
magical conditions about pre-historical "Atlantis" to the Germanic
mythological world of the Eddas, in which the Gods, giants, men, and beasts
were engaged in a bloodcurdling struggle for survival. These were age-old
legends of ignorant men about Niflheim (the Underworld), Muspellhiem, and
Midgard. These I will agree are intriguing and suggestive ideas, but hardly
Satanic. Based on all of this, Glauer and other member of this inner group
of the Thule Gesellschaft predicted that latent powers slumbering in the
"blood" of the Aryan race would unfold in the Twentieth Century under Adolf
Hitler. "Supermen" would then appear, they believed, awakening the Germanic
people to the glories of their ancient heritage, which had been obliterated
by Christianity. (They were right about this systematic and relentless
obliteration, but the Germans obliterated it themselves, or one may say that
they colonized themselves). They believed these coming Supermen would
conquer the world. All of these ideas were extended and refined by Heinrich
Himmler, Reichsfuhrer SS, who inveigled and sometimes terrorized a large
section of the German academic community into perpetuating these myths of an
inherent German racial superiority.

Herman Rauschning, a defected Gauleitier, explained the excitation of
Germans by racial ideology as being due to the fact that every German, he
said, had "one foot in 'Atlantis' where he seeks a better Fatherland and a
better patrimony." Such a quest for betterment of this kind I can commend.
But again, this is not Satanic or of the Dark. It is natural, and of the
Light. Rauschning's comments on the "great leader" of this failed movement
will be particularly enlightening to real Satanists reading this.
Rauschning, who met Hitler on numerous occasions, wrote that "Hitler is the
reeking miasma of furtive, unnatural sexuality which fills and fouls the
atmosphere around him, like an evil emanation. Nothing in his environment is
straightforward. Surreptitious relationships, substitutes and symbols, false
sentiments and hidden lusts - nothing in this man's surroundings is natural
and genuine, nothing has the openness of a natural instinct. 'Oh, if only
Hitler knew how it does one good to have a fresh natural girl!' said
Forster, another of Hitler's Gauleiters" (quoted from Hitler Speaks, by
Hermann Rauschning). With this, Rausching hit on the head the trouble with
all of today's bogus "Satanists" who gravitate toward Hitler, the SS, and
National Socialism. According to Rauschning, Hitler fantastically enthroned
himself, "looking out to eternity," from his mountain eyrie at Barbarossa, a
snowbound, glass-walled building nestled in a rocky ravine of the Bavarian
mountains. The walls of his "palace" were adorned with nudes of no artistic
intention, but instead illustrating the crudest sexual deviations.
Christianity had made him what it seeks to make of everyone: someone "smooth
between the legs," someone whose sexuality is focused in his brain. A
twisted, demented, pathetic creature, utterly broken at the root.

If this is where you are coming from, if sexual perversion of this type has
a central place in your life, then, by all means, join the worldwide ranks
of National Socialists, but quit pretending that the pentacle stands for
this! Let me put it simply: sexual dementia was at the core of Hitler, as it
is of all products of Christian society. He, like many of you bogus
"Satanists," like Aleister Crowley too, as complete a product of
Christianity as anyone, have put this at the heart of your so-called
mediumistic and clairvoyant powers. It is the motivation behind every one of
your so-called "Satanic" acts. In these acts, you reap vengeance only on
yourself, and futilely attempt it on the Christian repressors of your
childhood and pubescent sexuality. There is nothing wrong with a love of
Teutonic mythology. But that is not what is involved in your so-called
fascistic "Satanism."

Instead of Mussolini's "believe, obey, and fight," I advocate, as a
Satanist, what Lenin advocated. He told Russian soldiers to stop fighting,
to end the war, and to take the guns the Tsar had issued to them and turn
them on their own generals. This is truly Satanic. (The Russians did as he
said, overthrew the Tsars, and won the Bolshevik Revolution, as they
defeated the Nazi "supermen" forty years or so later, killing or capturing
four or more Wehrmacht soldiers and killing ten to every kill or capture by
the Americans under General Eisenhower.)

When great mutations of the human species finally do occur, building up and
adding up to a truly new species whose destiny is to inherit the Earth,
eventually annihilating and supplanting everything else, the way Homo
sapiens supplanted the Neanderthal, it will not conform in any way to the
so-called "visions" the delirious Adolf Hitler had as he lay writhing in
torment in his hospital bed from mustard gas poisoning. Take him as your
"Fuehrer" if you like. As a real Satanist and admirer of Dr. LaVey, I pass.

Perhaps the best the most truly Satanic thing that might be true of many of
you "National Socialist Satanists" is what Rene Guenon said of Neo-pagan
groups in the era of the Thule Gesellschaft. He suggested they might be, as
you the reader might be, unwitting tools of higher demonic powers seeking to
unleash untold horrors on mankind. If "demons" and their human demonolators
are conjuring you to do this, in which case pulling strings you don't even
realize you have, that would explain why you feed off repression, blood and
pain. Having had personal acquaintance with various "demons" within the
hearts of similarly enamored and demented people, let me tell you that
contrary to general opinion, demons love Christians because Christians'
minds and lives are built around blood, pain, and sadism: it is the only way
they can release themselves from their own repressions; it is their only
outlet.

Magister Philip Marsh

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Stewart, sure...

The very fact that so many pseudo-Satanists have adopted the Nazi thing just
proves that they're not Satanists. They're HERD-types.

"Oh, I'm a Satanist, so I'll shave my head and only wear black, and I'll be
nasty to everyone outside my little clique, and that'll make me His Satanic
Majesty!" Get a clue!

A true Satanist can be slicker than catshit on linoleum. He can slide inside
the herd like a ghost, work his wiles, and have the Herd begging him to
slaughter them. He can pick a lady out of a crowd, ask her to dance, and
before the music ends, she'll be offering to bear his children. And he (or
SHE) is well-versed: in music, literature, finance, politics, humor, and a
whole lot more. He's got the answer before the others have thought of the
question. He doesn't suffer fools gladly, unless he's about to fleece a
willing sheep. He gathers INTERESTING people about him, not a HERD of
LOSERS. He has Class, Style, and Finesse. Good looks help, but they're not
required...

A Satanist is equally at home on the dance floor or behind enemy lines.

Above all, he's his own person, a lackey of NO ONE...

--Chuck Shaddoway

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Stewart:

The Nazi's were indeed determined to wipe the Jews from the face of the
earth, but that is certainly not the end of the matter. The first "ghettos"
were initiated there as a means not only to separate and destroy the Jewish
population, but it must also be remembered that half of the Polish
population who were killed were not Jewish at all. The number of these is
about 3 million (sited from Terese Pencak Schwartz, "Five Million
Forgotten"). This says nothing of the victims of the Holocaust who were
guilty only of homosexuality, who today wear the "Pink Triangle" symbol
proudly to remember the fact that homosexuals were forced to wear this in
the concentration camps.

The Nazi's had their own political reasons for forming the Third Reich, and
certainly from WW1 onward the economic state of Germany was in constant
decline. It is only natural that a people will suffer oppression for only so
long before rising up to face their oppressors, or anyone perceived as an
oppressor, but it must be always remembered that the National Socialist
movement gained it's ascendancy and popularity among an oppressed and
defeated people before becoming the means of liberating them. At no time has
National Socialism been favorable to a people already strong. It was a case
of a beaten down and abused people adopting an extreme solution to end their
problems for good, whatever the cost; and in that state of mind, provoked as
it was by brilliant statesmen and music designed specifically to invoke
fanaticism, a people are no longer sane.

Regarding the "symbols," the Swastika today is considered to be "atrocious"
but certainly was not considered so at the time of the Third Reich. There is
certainly strong evidence to support that Hitler, or at least those around
him, either had or adopted certain racial views which involved reincarnation
and other "occult" ideas as taught in the German Lodges, so that in order to
justify the murder of the Jews and others they adopted the belief that they
were merely "saving" them from their inferior bodies, allowing them to be
reborn, perhaps as Aryans, into a next life. The symbol itself is a Rune
called "Sowelu" in the Elder Futhark, and represents the "Ray" or the Sun.
At any rate, that Hitler or the Nazis themselves, or anyone at that time,
saw the Swastika as "evil," even in the case of the "herd," is not likely.

"Herd Mentality" does not mean grouping together for a common goal. Hitler
did not rise to power by his own might and strength, but rather he was, for
all intents and purposes, the "collective will of the German people
personified."

The decline of the fascists is due to the fact that the group or people
themselves involved carry out fascists ideals and set out to destroy what
system has been established, what they like, and what they dislike according
to their own beliefs. Now, at this point it could be asserted that Satanism
says such things, however, the very term fascist is not in balance with the
ideals set forth by Anton LaVey And when you do not have balance, you do not
have limitations, and Hitler didn't have a limitation, whatsoever, he wanted
to conquer a world and he almost did, too. I remember listening to a English
man who wrote on Hitler and the Third Reich numerous times, and he had met
an Old German of those days who asked "Why didn't you join in, we could have
won" and that very well is the case, they could have one, but they didn't as
you see the Opposition doesn't always lose. The Fascists never existed with
limitation bestowed upon them, they'd convince everyone until they were fit
enough for there own little games, and when they grew tired of them, they
would kill them off too. So much for stratification, in this system it's
impossible.

The likelihood of the "Fascist Satanists" putting themselves on the
defensive against their own selves outweighs the unlikelihood of them
becoming a powerful figure in some political manner, whether it be in the
Church of Satan, or any organization with an ideal system of competition
where the Citizens themselves can actually achieve a level of notoriety on
their own, or with people of a like mind. This is evident in how so many
Satanists exemplify different ideals.

The Nazi's were not necessarily attacking first, but they certainly went to
the far extreme with inexcusable crimes against humanity. If might truly is
right then the Herd must be acknowledged as superior, for there is
undoubtable strength in numbers! The question of National Socialism (Nazism)
within the CoS is not one of a truly political nature, for the CoS is not a
nation, nor is Satanism a nationality. The question is more one of natural
implications.

"Strength through Joy" may have indeed been the Hitlerian ideal, but what of
it's fulfillment? What joy is there to be found in a hunted man, hiding
underground, committing suicide to avoid the results of his "strength?" The
faces associated with Hitler and National Socialism are not the faces of
Joy, nor have they ever been.

- Metadromos

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From the Merriam-Webster dictionary:

Main Entry: fas·cism Pronunciation: 'fa-"shi-z&m also 'fa-"si - (Fash-ism)

Function: noun Etymology: Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces,
group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces. Date: 1921

1: often capitalized: a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that
of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and
that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial
leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression
of opposition.

2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial
control early instances of army fascism and brutality-J. W. Aldridge

Since when did Satanism exalt anything above the individual? Since when did
"severe economic and social regimentation" become a Satanic principal? In
this context Satan is nothing but The Opposition, and it's obvious where
that puts us.

Believers in fascism were the very danger Anton LaVey stood against when
founding the Church of Satan; the actual, physical threat of "forcible
suppression" that has for centuries stalked Satanists and anyone
representing Satanism. These enemies have not left us - if anything, they
are stronger than ever (as per the 9th Satanic Statement). To open the door
for them, to let them into our home, to let them represent us, is
ludicrous - traitorous to ourselves the Church of Satan, and the Satanic
Movement Itself.

Even in the old stories, Satan was at war with "The Hierarchy", cast down by
"The Dictator" (usually with the help of "the regime"). Nowhere is Satan
portrayed as anything less than a Rebel, a Critic, an ADVERSARY, The
Opposition. It doesn't take much thought to figure out what it means when a
self-proclaimed Satanist supports fascism, dictatorship, social
regimentation. That is war with Self. Suicide would be more Satanic than
that. In a long, slow, and painful way, "Satanic Fascism" is just that:
Suicide.

Sir Chaos

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Dear Stewart,

Satanic Value in Fascism?

The issue has arisen among Satanists of the possible role fascism might play
in the satanic philosophy of the Church of Satan. Fascist emblems employed
by certain individual Satanists have moved some to consider and others to
criticize the validity behind associating the two ideologies with one
another. Yet it is first necessary to define terms before attempting to
wrestle with the matter any further. Those terms, of course, are Satanism
and Fascism.

For the Satanist, there is no need to define the first term since anyone who
has read the works of Anton LaVey and agrees with its principles will for
the most part stand on common ground with his diabolical compatriots. As to
the meaning of the second term, however, Satanists might perceive its
ideology in different ways. The first step I believe will be to establish
what fascism is and secondly, to determine if there is any chemistry between
it and the philosophy of Anton LaVey.

The word Fasces gives us our present day word Fascism. A Fasces was the
ancient Roman symbol of official authority and power. It was represented by
an axehead enveloped by a bundle of elm or birch rods, bound together by a
red strap.

Here is the key: Official authority, not individual autonomy. The definition
of fascism's political ideology that I am most familiar with describes it as
one of supremacy of the state over the individual, the latter only finding
purpose and self-fulfillment through absolute obedience to the present
ruling power, usually a dictator. Sexual activity for one's own pleasure is
not encouraged , but only as it serves the purposes of the state. Every
system of thought which has sought to control the minds of the people such
as Christianity, Communism, Islam, etc., has employed like restrictions on
humanity's greatest pleasure. This allows those in power to exploit pent up
sexual energies for their own machinations by channeling those energies into
state approved functions. Military values are highly lauded, but not for
personal glory as one would find, say, among the American Indians, but
rather a bloodlust for victory for one's own nation and race at the expense
if necessary of one's own life. Cosmopolitan ideals, self-aggrandizement and
rationalism are discouraged as decadent and valueless.

Even the most superficial overview of the philosophy of the Church of Satan
and that of fascism must inevitably arrive at the logical conclusion that
the two ideologies in their essential essence are completely incompatible.
LaVey spoke of a joyous life lived through self realization through one's
own efforts and freedom achieved through the questioning of those values
idolized by both church and state. Fascism only allows joy and self
realization in service to the nation state.

Should America ever become a totalitarian state, and it shows much promise
in this direction through recent ominous developments in the War on Drugs,
and this countries continual efforts at censorship of the arts and
encouragement of ultra patriotism, it would certainly display less, not more
tolerance towards Satanism than the present semi-democracy does today. The
best case scenario would find Satanist's driven underground for fear of
unbearable legal and social reprisals as they would no longer have the first
constitutional amendment to offer any protection as we ... barely....have
today. The worst case scenario would reveal every openly displayed Baphomet
behind barbed wire.

The next logical question then would be, what attraction does fascism or
national socialism as it was called in Hitler's Germany, hold for certain
Satanist's? Whereas totalitarian political philosophies have as much in
common with Satanism as do Christianity, Humanism, Communism, and any other
self debasing school of thought, there may be ironically enough, certain
Satanic applications of Fascist symbolism and peripheral accoutrements which
might have a certain validity for some. For instance, LaVey spoke of certain
objects as having a "Satanic look" about them, a car might look satanic, or
perhaps a house. Many people have commented favorably on the sharp
appearance of Germany's second World War uniforms. They were, of all the
uniforms of all the nations of the World, perhaps the most Satanic in
appearance. Fascism is often accompanied by racial supremacist views. In
American culture, where the white male is sometimes openly vilified as the
oppressor, employing the imagery of white pride through a swastika may serve
as a counter-balance to the hysterical anti-racist rhetoric of the political
left-wing. Another possible undercurrent of shock value may be attractive to
some. Many Satanist's thrive on shocking our prim and proper polite society
and certainly this can be accomplished through the emblems of Nazism. There
is also the possibility that some Satanist's extract from Fascism the
concept of strong central authority and discard the rest. One envisions here
the policies of Niccolo Machiavelli as a Satanic political guideline.

To reiterate, there might be certain ways I have just mentioned in which the
frills of totalitarian government may be used in a somewhat Satanic fashion,
yet this is a far cry from wedding that ideology to that of Anton LaVey's.
Concerning philosophies compatible with those of the Church of Satan I would
rather look to the existentialist such as Nietzsche & Camus, as examples of
de-facto satanic philosopher's. In summation, my position is that the images
of Fascism offer an immediate and superficially sinister first impression
but have really little to do with Satanic values.

Personally, I would distance myself from all the extreme right wing
symbolism as it will only confuse others and give people the wrong idea
concerning what Satanist's are about or where we are coming from. If I tried
hard enough and let my sense of discrimination slumber, I could probably
find something Satanic to extract from even Christianity itself, but that
would be frivolous and would associate me with something that I am
ultimately opposed to, and so what would be the value in that?

Norma J. Gomez

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From chatroom dialogue on #atheism: Stewart said:

Fascism dictates by race and sex, what is "weak-willed," what is "right."
Darwin's "survival of the fittest" is also distinguished here, take for
example sperm, only the strongest sperm can get fertilization, just because
they display strong characteristics does not mean they will survive. Power,
how can this be misinterpreted? The weak sperm always dies in due course. In
the jungle if an animal embodies a weak trait, how long do you think that
would last in a world as complex as this? Not very long, in fact the chances
are very high they would be preyed upon by a superior species of some sort
and be dealt with accordingly. Man has thought himself to be a more dominant
animal, that is as conflicting to that of the jungle species, he has
migrated and taken the land, and has even at times took from himself.
American culture is over-shadowed by these facts. When the Europeans took
the land of the Indians, this wasn't right. This wasn't might. It was the
green eyed goblin referred to as jealousy, these peoples' jealousy wasn't
the same trait personified by Satanic philosophy and culture. Satanists do
know that envy can be a great characteristic, in fact, it is a great trait,
when it is properly instructed, if I want something from another man I will
not just "steal the rug from underneath" I will find a way to get what I
want on my own. Stratification is a biological fact, fascism, like
Christianity takes (or attempts to) from this, they strive for victory, but
they have done so using all the wrong conduct.

Note of fact (Mag TJ paraphrasing, see sources below, also was mentioned in
#atheism): Y

Your statements on sperm are wrong. Not only does it not matter which sperm
gets there first, there are two types of sperm in two distinct types of
males. It is, in the end, the electrical field of the OVA that chooses which
sperm to let in - IF ANY!! There has been of late a problem with the
electrical field around ova NOT ALLOWING ANY sperm of some particular male
in (the husband, usually). For more info on this, see Israeli "Zona Blaster"
studies. They used a laser to break through the electrical field. Still, it
is not known why healthy ova would not allow healthy sperm in for
fertilization, thus rendering couples childless. (Not known why? Uh... )

About sperm and the elimination of naive ideas. It starts with chimps and
gorillas and how they sexually act and how their organs are. Chimps are
always horny, have sex a lot, have large testicles and tiny penises.
Gorillas are the exact opposite with small "tight" testicles and large
penises. It turns out that there are more than one kind of sperm: 1. egg
seeking, very passive sperm that just seek the egg out; 2. blocking sperm
that form chains and block another person's sperm; 3. attacking sperm that
murder other sperm from someone else. Those with large penises and small
testicles have MOSTLY egg seeking sperm. Those with small penises and large
testicles have mostly the warrior/defender type sperm. This is in
chimps/gorillas AND IN HUMAN TYPES. The types are not on a curve or
gradation. There are two DISTINCT types in human beings.

Also, that men who are away from sex for awhile, build up blocking sperm and
if they don't masturbate or some other way get rid of this so that fresh
egg-seeking sperm can come into play, they are NOT the ones who leave
descendents! Women who orgasm BEFORE the male does (vaginal orgasm) hold in
the sperm for as long as 3 days (called "flow back") but women who don't, do
not retain the sperm. THAT there exist blocking and attack sperm is
biological PROOF that we have inbuilt in us mechanisms made and tailored BY
EVOLUTION for POLYGAMY - NOT for monogamy! ABSOLUTELY!

In some "restriction enzyme DNA" studies, GORILLAS come out closer to humans
than chimps! The data is hard to come by so that they still regard gorillas
as 2nd closest to humans, chimps closest. Interesting. The studies are very
hard, time consuming and not often done - so then: WE DONT KNOW!

The TYPES of sperm the two distinct groups make are MEASURABLE - these are
NOT gradations! Small testicle and big penis men produce MORE egg seeking
sperm and LESS blocking and attack sperm. Big testicle and small penis men
produce more of the warrior and defender sperm than egg seeking sperm.

That is: the sperm itself of these small penis men is more evolved to WAGE
WAR ON OTHER SPERM! This is the sperm itself. In a sense, human males are
the slaves of this sperm (which has a life of its own) and they are dragged
around by the sperm (thinking with the dick?) Sure, this is a purely
evolutionary thing in terms of survival in the strict Darwinian sense - but
it also has BIG social consequences!!! Those are not dealt with in strict
science, by the way. It takes us to SYNTHESIZE it!

When men are away from women for awhile, no matter what type they are, they
tend to build up MORE blocking sperm. Ergo: Men that are chaste are at a big
disadvantage in terms of evolution as they'd be mating with their wives with
blocking sperm.

SOURCES FOR A LOT OF THIS: keep in mind, the bibliographies of these will
reveal many MANY other sources.

Eros and Evolution: a natural philosophy of sex by Richard L. Michod

Human Sperm Competition: copulation, masturbation and infidelity by R. Robin
Baker and Mark A. Bellis

With Pleasure: thoughts on the nature of human sexuality by Paul R. Abramson
and Steven D. Pinkerton

What's Love Got to Do With it: the evolution of human mating by Meredith F.
Small

Scientific American, January 1996 issue, reviews these four books and what's
in them. Interesting!

Keep in mind, it involves human sexuality which people go insane over, the
studies are up in the air. I find it interesting because it tends to BACK UP
WHOLLY the synthetic view I came up with of men, TYPES of men. AND WOMEN.
Remember my infamous "the ova is saying no" comment? Sure, I had HARD SCI to
back that up alright. WHY is the ova saying no? TO WHICH MEN is the ova
saying no? That wasn't in the study they did - or if it was, we never will
get to hear about it.

Keep in mind, there is far MORE cooperation in nature for real, than there
is strife. Don't fall into the stupidity of "human paradigms" based on human
culture since the dawn of agriculture. We didn't get to BE Homo Sapiens by
wiping each other out, but by cooperating. Behold the human baby for a clue
to how much cooperation human beings need just to survive. Get over it.
Survival of the fittest doesn't mean "Social" Darwinism AT ALL. Suggest
reading up on evolutionary biology before making statements about it. Niles
Eldredge: "Reinventing Darwin" is a good starter because he exposes and
explains the pseudo-science of "social" Darwinism. Social Darwinism is a
false application of evolutionary theory to "make it fit" what you think you
see in only very modern society. Eldredge IS an evolutionary biologists.
Dawkins is not any kind of biologists and the ONLY "selfish genes" are
oncogenes. Heh, we are not walking tumors!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Dear Stewart,

You said: -"First, as we start the analysis of the ideal of Fascism within
the satanic movement...."-

These two words together "Fascism, Satanism" are an oxymoron. The two are at
opposite ends of a spectrum, not as any yin/yang, but opposite in the sense
that they completely cancel each other out.

Some background: Satanism has at its heart the perfect ideal of Darkness.
The Yin that became. As it became, it stretched forth. In its stretching, it
created. What it created was a Light born of Darkness, a Bright Darkness, or
"The Black Flame." The Darkness possesses itself and is whole. The Light is
made manifest FROM Darkness and is only whole while it PARTAKES of Darkness.
The two together are the Yin/Yang of existence. The two together are the
"Creation" we know. The two together, like everything whole, share in and
make manifest the "Will" of "Creation." That is, UNITED with Darkness, the
Light (Black Flame, in this context) is a creative Force. Can there be Yin
alone? Yes. Darkness was before, is now and will be after. Darkness is
ALWAYS capable of "Becoming" something different. It is the Ultimate source
of ALL that is. It can be said that Darkness IS all that is, for with out
it, there is NOTHING. Yang, on the other hand, ONLY exists as a PART of a
whole. Without its progenitor (Darkness) it has no place in "Creation."
Lacking a root in Darkness, the Light becomes a LIE. It is cold, brittle,
barren and dead. Is it still Light? Yes, but now it is a FALSE Light, and is
CONSUMMED by the awareness that it is OTHER THAN Darkness. Unlike Light
united with Darkness, which can be said to prize diversity above all else
and Wills toward Diversity (which is the will of Creation), this False Light
seeks, and Wills toward, the destruction of Diversity and the
psuedo-creation of sameness. In doing so, it is said to be at war with What
Is.

Fascism (the INNER REALITY, not the political ideal), having its genesis in
the Light ALONE, is diametrically opposed to the ideals of Satanism. Hence,
the fascist ideal has NO PLACE within the Satanic Ideal.

Stewart, you said: . "Of course the assertion made by Magistrate Nadramia in
her applaudable speculation of the similarities between the both parties are
noted and should be viewed for further historical, relevant data on the
research at hand."

If Magistra Nadramia thinks the two are in ANY WAY similar, Magistra
Nadramia is WRONG. See above. Magistra Nadramia also referred to the Dark
Force as a "very fascist force." WHAT? What kind of nonsense is that?
Magistra Nadramia is talking about politics (which she is not familiar
with), economics (which she is not familiar with) and the Dark Force (which
she also was not familiar enough with to argue and state what she meant to
the Temple of Set not so long ago.) A "fascist force?" Even atoms don't fit
that definition. Nor do space and time. The only thing that fits that
definition is a tree full of monkeys. The Dark Force in Nature is not even
any of the forces known in physics, nor can you use physics to formulate it
(you need the 2nd and 3rd "Laws" of Entropy to do that - and that's not even
physics). It is not fascist in any sense of the word: IT STANDS ALONE,
SOLITARY, UNIQUE and, to date- NOT FULLY UNDERSTOOD! I cite for proof this
article on this URL written by P. Marsh and J. Mengele

http://www.apodion.com/vad/tani/entropy_tech.shtml

Stewart, you mentioned: "In any case the Fascist, AKA Nazi....."

It has been said before. but I will say it again, the NAZI Party was,
politically, a NATIONAL SOCIALIST movement, the German WORKER'S Party.
Mussolini was the Fascist.

Stewart said: "The Fascists and Nazis politically believed in terminating a
weaker race in the case of WWII this was the Jewish Race, who's thought to
be a religion in some cases however scientists can now read by gene analysis
that is and what is not Jewish."

Another history lesson: Germans hated Jews because the Jews got the best
jobs (they were better qualified). Germans hated Jews because they had a
great deal of wealth (they had better jobs, and they worked harder). Germans
hated Jews because they were better educated (they were smarter). Germans
hated Jews because Germans were stupid, poor and starving. Germans hated
Jews because Germans saw the Jews as becoming too powerful and manipulating
the course of the German Nation. The cream, in other words, was rising to
the top. WHO was the weaker race? And let's not forget the Slavs, also
considered sub-human by the Nazi Party. Then there were the homosexuals.
Then there were the Gypsies, etc, etc. This is INTERNAL Fascism-"They're
different from us....let's kill them."

Stewart said: "The best diagnosis they know possible for the stratification
that they seek could be found in an ideal level of the most omnipotent
political statement; this was Fascism. This Was Nazism."

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but based on what I think you mean:
Germany HAD stratification BEFORE the Nazis rose up. The Germans wound up on
the bottom and they didn't like it. Stratification was NOT what they were
looking for. They sought the elimination of stratification via the
destruction of everything determined "detrimental" to the German State. (If
you think this makes them superior, consider that if a marauding band of
baboons were to assault a bunch of humans, they'd inflict a lot of damage.
And if you put a gorilla in the ring with a human, the human will lose.)

Stewart said: "But, the ideal was founded upon certain magical meanings
behind the ancient symbols involved. That, are looked upon as being "Evil"
like the Sigil of Baphomet the Swastika was considered to be a very
atrocious thing, the meanings though, are different, regardless of Herd
Misconceptions."

The swastika is as old as writing. It was NOT perceived as evil until AFTER
Hitler shit all over it.

Now that the background is out of the way, let's get down to it.

The COS, first of all, is a CHURCH, not a country; right away we know that
we are not dealing with "political theory." All that leaves us with is the
manifestation of an inner state in it's members. The irony of Stewart's
question is that there are INDEED similarities between the COS Fascist
faction's INNER Fascism and the Fascism perceived in the NSDAP. The Nazi
party was a party OPENLY formed to bolster the self worth of a flagging,
LOSING and WEAK people. The INNER Fascism at work in the COS is of the same
brand, only its adherents want us to believe that they espouse this doctrine
not out of weakness but, rather, out of a position of strength. The Germans
of the early 20th century were IN REALITY a beaten down, starving people.
The fascist element of the COS is a group JUST as beaten down and JUST as
starving; the only difference is that their agony is INTERNAL agony. They
are not a nation forced to pay crippling reparations, as was Germany after
WWI. They are not a Nation with no National economy to speak of, as was
Germany. The fascist faction of the COS, and, indeed, MOST of the LOSERS who
espouse Fascism as a way of life do so out of their own INNER feelings of
barrenness and lack of worth. They seek to bolster their self worth by
identifying with something they perceive as "powerful." Well, FOOLED AGAIN.
Fascism is the reaction of the WEAK against domination by the STRONG and
ABLE. Hardly a reaction worthy of the "Alien Elite." Or the "Aryan Elite,"
for that matter. It's a POWER TRIP, pure and simple. Not to mention the hard
on they get from jack boots. Gimme a break.

I still don't understand how ANYONE could make the mistake of thinking that
Satanism has ANYTHING in common with Fascism. Does it have anything in
common with the COS? ABSOLUTELY. Whiny little nothings who get off on the
"elite" bullshit are PRECISELY the kind of people this DRIVEL appeals to.
It's like "bait for klippoths." Just advertise that you are an organization
of the Elect of God (it doesn't matter which god) or the Alien Elite - it's
the same thing.

For the one millionth time: DO NOT make the mistake of thinking that the COS
in ANY WAY defines the term "Satanism." It DOES NOT. That would be like
saying "Baptist" defines Christianity. I know some fine Christians. I know
some fine members of the COS. It has been my experience, however, that BOTH
are dominated by the whiny, shrieking worthless scum of the order.
Interesting how they both turn to fascism, whether they are Baptists of
COSsers, wouldn't you say?

As Ole said, "The cause of effect of a war against life is a war against
life. That is, fascism is a war against life."

He hit the nail on the head. The Satanism of the COS is predicated on the
works of ASL. ASL said that a Satanist was a person who could FEEL the Dark
Force in Nature. Fascism has NOTHING of the Darkness within it. How then can
it (in LaVeyan terms) be in ANY WAY Satanic?

Casey Ley

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Stewart:

Fascism, if anything, is counter-individualistic save perhaps to the one
that rules. What are the odds that you'll be the one that rules? They're
less than one in a million, so what kind of fool would ever support fascism?
Consider this: if I'm employed, it means I'm working. Although I might not
agree with socialist philosophy (at all), if I support socialists, I
actually come out stronger because of trade unions, work regulations forced
onto employers, etc. As an individual, I gain from being (or at least
seeming to be) a socialist. If Satanism represents your gaining personal
advantages at the expense of the herd, socialism is more Satanic in deed
than fascism!

If anyone told me I'd be bestowed with some advantages just because a
governmental system changed to fascism, I'd think that person was a fool.
Besides, such a statement is very similar to the Christian persuasion that
if you accept the supreme God, you will go to paradise. But you won't get
there alive.

--Ole Wolf

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Casey Ley's reply citing Ole Wolf's email:

Mag TJ Said: Fascism is NOT EVEN of the light (Black FLAME). It's the light
ALONE - NO darkness at all.

See, this has been my problem with this WHOLE discussion. This "faction"
keeps getting looked at and talked about on a COMPLETELY outer level...i.e.
their politics, their clothing, etc. While some of the things written during
this discussion have been both interesting and well said, it's not and never
has been, a political question. It, like EVERYTHING else, is an outward
manifestation of an inner state of being. I don't care about what someone
says their political beliefs are, any more than I care what someone says
their "religion" is. All these things are window dressings for the ONLY
thing that is real about Anything: BEING.

Fascism, as a WAY OF LIFE, not a theoretical principle, is DEVOID of Being.
How ANYONE could ever mistake it for anything even remotely Satanic is so
far beyond me as to inspire a headache.

Satanism IS Being.

Fascism is NON Being.

Satanism is that which IS

Fascism is that which STRIVES to BE, but NEVER IS.

Satanism is born from an ALL LIVING Darkness.

Fascism is the poisonous spawn of a brittle, dead FALSE LIGHT.

Satanism is the unfettered JOY of Being.

Fascism is the forever-chained DENIAL OF LIFE, and that is REPRESSION. I DO
NOT understand why/how ANYONE who CLAIMS to be satanic can be confused on
this point.

As to COS Fascists: Doc said that a Satanist is anyone who FEELS the Dark
Force in Nature. Does it not follow that anyone who DOES NOT is NOT a
Satanist? NO ONE who does feel it is CAPABLE of LIVING as a fascist.
Masquerading, sure, especially to save their neck if they live in a fascist
society. But BEING a Fascist? IMPOSSIBLE. Fascism is the same tired shit all
over again: oh LOOK, more klippoths. More sun cult pieces of shit. More of
the same "Light Alone" CRAP. Same song, four hundred and fifteenth verse.
NOTHING that is lacking in Darkness is Satanic. Fascism has NOTHING of the
Darkness in it. ERGO? It IS NOT Satanic. WHERE is the debate in that???? And
WHY does it KEEP getting debated EVERY TIME these people show up in a new
outfit?

Mag TJ asked: I'm trying to figure out the "Freudian" connection - is there
something about that word? Fasces = Feces they feel like shit so they
wannabe Lords over others. They are anal compulsive as hell and totally into
the "dictator" thing, which they use to create an overbearingly suffocating
and repressive atmosphere. Hitler = Hit Her? Shitler? The fascist faction is
ALSO into dominance and submission, sado-masochism not just overtly but also
in a very "controlled" = repressed form. They are anal compulsive people.

No, I don't think it's the word. It's an IMAGE that appeals to pent up
pieces of shit that never got off. And THAT IS Freudian.

Ole Wolf said previously to Mag TJ's question: I don't think there's a
"Freudian" thing about fascism in that it sounds like some anal retentive
obsession. Fascism goes in lock-step with authoritarian, sexual repression,
which may be the "Freudian" part of it. So, try this instead: The cause and
result of fascism is fascism. In turn, fascism arises from sexual
repression. The cause and result of sexual repression is sexual repression.
In turn, sexual repression arises from the inability to live freely. The
cause and result of the inability to live freely is the inability to live
freely. In turn, the inability to live freely arises from a war against
life. The cause of effect of a war against life is a war against life. That
is, fascism is a war against life.

EXACTLY. Somebody explain to me how that can be confused with Satanism?????

In reality, what happened in Nazi Germany was stratification turned inside
out, turned upside down on its head. Superior people, superior in ALL ways
that had already risen to the top in what was pretty much a "free market"
were beaten down by monkeys. They were considered DEMONIC! Consider that.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Stewart,

From reading Mein Kampf, my impression was always that the Jews were not
viewed as a weaker race, but as a scheming, evil race, just as strong as the
Aryans in their own way, but skewed and maniacal, not possessing their own
culture and bent on dominating others. This is quite different from a weaker
race, no?

Julia

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Jeff Gerber formerly of the ADL comments to Julia's post

It has been the fortune of the Jewish People to be viewed as Sorcerers in
League with Devils by the Christians around them. They were encircled by
Christians in the West since the Diaspora. I get a chuckle out of knowing
the history of Jews that invented "Books of King Solomon" to sell to
grasping "goyim" that wanted to "learn magic." There is a sucker born
everyday. Of course, suckers are stupid.

It was not through any fault of our own that we survived. On the contrary,
we were smarter and more "cunning" one might say, which is only a form of
intelligence maligned exclusively by the "Aryans" or Anglos, (W.A.S.P.
types) as pointed out by Erskine in his essay "The Moral Obligation to be
Intelligent," an indictment of "Anglo Saxon" stupidity alongside a
superstitious "WASPish" fear of "Wisdom." Odd, I never thought of myself as
"cunning" or "evil" for being able to call stocks on the money. I merely use
my brain. With this, I enrich myself and my close friends. I do not enrich
my enemies. In other words, "us first, fuck anybody else." That's very much
like "me first." Is there something wrong with that? Who says so: a
Christian?

Adolf Hitler's teenaged profile fits in well with many of the indolent,
jobless teens who can't get girlfriends that we see today hooked on fantasy
role playing games and going nowhere fast. Hitler's fantasy role playing
consisted of Wagnerian fantasies. He was a flophouse bum, worse than
"trailer park trash" and nothing more. He didn't even have a girlfriend, an
abnormality in itself (he wasn't gay either).

In a society of Prussian (Bismarck) aristocrats, land owners and illiterate
serfs, the Jews came into Germany with nothing except their own culture and
intelligence. Far from having no culture, we have preserved our culture and
kept it intact and, for the most part, kept the non-Jews out of it. In this
early capitalist and half feudal dog-eat-dog society, the Jewish People rose
to the top in every profession they entered. They did this solely on their
own merit. That was real stratification. What the Nazis or Fascists did was
turn stratification upside down on its head. Hitler even gave speeches
against intellectuality. Yet the only "physical" strengths he ever advocated
raising up were through normal physical activities. "The Eternal Jew" gives
a clear picture of what they thought of the Jewish People. They praised the
physical laborer who obviously couldn't think past his immediate wants or
use foresight, and hated the merchant. They really loved their
almost-cave-men. If Hitler were alive today, he would be the proponent of
illegal alien sweat shop workers and migrant farm workers. Why? Because
illiterate farm workers predominated in the German countryside and were
"valued" and idealized by the Nazi idealists. It was the "brain work" of
those clever enough to think of marketing products that the Nazis hated:
this was clearly in the hands of the Jews of that time. Only through using
brute baboon force were the Nazis able to "beat" the Jews. Inferior? Hardly.

If marketing products can be said to be "maniacal and dominating" then let
us look at it. What's maniacal about marketing products? Mass production
brought us into the modern century and out of the backward feudal age. What
is wrong with dominating the market if you can do this? Those who can: DO!
Those who can't: COMPLAIN.

We don't have a culture? Oh yes we do. It's just not Christian culture, not
at all; if anything it is anathema to the Christian culture. Evil and
scheming? Let me laugh, Julia: do you mean we Jews are Satanic?

Jeff Gerber (I am a close friend of Magistra Tani Jantsang and am proud to
say she collaborated with me on many projects. My credentials are on
Hr.Vad's website. My Satanic credentials come from my Ophite father: these
are Jews that venerate the "Serpent of Wisdom." We are Deists, not Theists.)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Mr. Stewart,

In answer to the question of is fascism satanic, I would voice a resounding
NO!

As Sir Chaos stated, Satan is the first rebel. And (I know I don't need to
tell you, but for the sake of completion) it is this image of Satan as the
adversary, the questioner, that we, as Satanists, try to emulate.

Those people who claim to be Satanic and preach fascism ALWAYS see
themselves as members of the elite group at the top of the social food
chain. They seek to dominate others to compensate, most likely, for their
own failings in life. They constantly search outside the self for the
answers to their woes. They force responsibility for their short comings on
a group of people that they perceive to have wronged them. That makes these
fascists un-satanic.

I have yet to hear one of these closet Christians say, "We need to set up a
government that will force people to do things against their will, assume
ownership of their property, and conscript the citizenry to serve in a fight
& die for the perceived destiny of those in power. BUT, I don't want to be
in that power group. Sign me up for extermination or forced labor camps. I
want to be the unarmed soldier serving as cannon fodder in the war against
my own people."

It has become a mechanism for survival of the current regime to portray
Satanists in Nazi garb to equate these two ideals. They learned a lesson
from the cold war that few people did: "When the outer enemy has been
vanquished, the citizens seeks the enemy within." ( The current state of our
national identity is proof of this.) As soon as the masses stop looking to
us as an adversary, they will have nothing to do but focus on those who hold
power within our government. Then they will have no choice but to see the
real harm the Christian Coalition and other such groups are doing.

For example, gun control. Everyone agrees illegal guns are bad. But the
fascist leaders in this country have used this to advocate the restriction
of legal weapons.

I hope this is what you were looking for.

Ben

Mr_Faust

When Caesar said of Cassius, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing." It
was not to warn that education was dangerous, but that a lack of knowledge
was.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Stewart,

Stewart said: "Also it must be highly noted the appointed person in power
who was a Fascist and had Sexist ideals set forth an out-right ban upon
everything that was birth control related due to the indiscriminate fact
that at that point in time it was something put out to the effect of: "Women
must return under the subjection of man-father or husband-and must recognize
therefore her own spiritual, cultural, and economic inferiority."----

And whether you like it or not, authoritarian rulership REQUIRES subjugation
of the female sex who would otherwise tend towards peaceful existence.
Sexual oppression-especially against females-is not propaganda against
fascism; it is a prerequisite of fascism. Religion is a perfect tool for
sexual subjugation and oppression.

The desire to control sexual activity is a fascist tendency; it is not a
question of being a fascist and a sexual idealist "as well."

Compare with matriarchal societies, where fascistoid concepts are unheard of
until patriarchal rulership is introduced... and with that, religion.

Stewart said: "The assertion made by the people that we are seeing now,
protesting that Doktor LaVey had such ideals,----"

And they'd have been RIGHT IF Doctor had been promoting fascism. Whenever
someone hails fascism to the skies, they're right that THEY have those
ideals.

Stewart said: "....he had inspired women, at their own objection, to make
their own choices, and gave them postulates that bewitch men in their
tracks,----"

Didn't you read The Satanic Witch? It is all about techniques on using
Cruxtoid men to obtain what you want as a woman.

Forcing a dress code onto women (which Doctor didn't-he plainly listed
techniques for manipulating broken men, not stating a dress code) is
equivalent to forcing women to cover their faces insofar as the natural body
isn't accepted. In that sense, there is NO DIFFERENCE between forcing a
"witchy" dress code onto females, forcing them to cover their faces, and
cutting off their clitorises. That's not necessarily the same as telling
them that men can me manipulated if they (the females, not the men) wear
sexy shoes, which (hopefully) was what Doctor was doing.

Stewart said: "....not that they were of inferior quality but because they
were superior in the sense that he admitted that they also had power over
him.----"

True. And any female has power over any male, but not in the TSW sense. The
TSW techniques draw on oppressed instincts while the kind of power I'm
talking about is a raw desire to procreate.

Stewart said: "As far as I have heard or have seen it has not come to my
attention that such things are existent.----"

Some of them are-Doctor wrote TSW. And as soon as someone argues that Doctor
was promoting fascist ideals, the same person will also be arguing that
Doctor was promoting (in an inner sense) sexual oppression and female
subjugation.

Stewart said: "And if they are, they are founded upon misconceptions of
their very own inferior pseudo-satanic quality,----"

Yes, and especially upon the misconceptions by those fascistoids that think
they agree with Doctor, not those that try to attack the CoS with the
"you're fascists" line. At least the latter ones KNOW they want to attack
the CoS while the fascistoids provide them with an ample supply of ammo.

--Ole Wolf

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Elitism, Fascism, & The Satanic Way of Life

I am not sure exactly when this fascist ideology permeated a group of
enlightened beings or how we allowed it to slip through the cracks. I am
unaware of the origin of this plague on our way of life, but I do know the
disease is spreading fast. And, if left unchecked, may destroy our way of
life.

Those among you who have yet to truly see the root of these philosophies may
not understand my utter disgust with those who preach from this particular
pulpit all the while wearing their Baphomet like a "Red Badge of Courage."
But to one who has not only dissected the words of the Dark Doctrines and
works of Doctor LaVey, but has also taken the time to feel the spirit of
these works, it is apparent that one can not be both a Satanist and follow
either of these political philosophies. They ARE mutually exclusive
conceptualizations!

Our entire belief system is based on the concept of responsibility. We place
personal responsibility above all else. We are responsible for our successes
as well as our failures. We accept that no supernatural father figure is
looking down on us from on high guiding our every move. We believe that we
exist merely on our own merit, for good or ill.

To acknowledge anyone as a dictator or superior goes against the very nature
of our being. Furthermore, to be acknowledged as superior to another is also
against our nature. Some people may disagree, but my arguments are
convincing.

First, a dictator exists by the grace of his subjects. That means dictators
are dependent on another person or group of persons for their power. This is
not the way we are. It is the antithesis of our ideals. It exposes the low
self esteem of the person. It is NOT Satanic! It can not be by the very
basis of our beliefs. To be dependent on another for our self worth would
betray our sense of self, or it betrays the lack of true understanding. This
sad excuse for a Satanist would be living in the world of self delusion
while claiming to be a member of a group that defies illusion.

Do I mean by this that we are not superior? NO! By this I mean that
superiority is not a goal or even a concern for the true follower of the
Left Hand Path! We are too busy with the things that concern us! We do not
have the time to worry about what others may think of our achievements,
projects, or goals.

Which brings us to the real reason these disillusioned few turn to talk of
the elite and fascism. They crave power which they themselves are incapable
of achieving. The equate self worth with the clout they wield. The fools!
They continually search without for what must exist within if it is to exist
at all. To hide their own inadequacy they rally other like minded and
incompetent people to their infantile cries of superiority, stratification,
and elitism. They replace the foundation of responsibility with an attitude
of "I can do whatever the hell I please with absolutely no concern for
consequence." There is nothing Satanic about their rhetoric. They are not
Satanic! Fortunately, they will never understand the true power that freedom
and responsibility together can bring. This will be the root of their
undoing.

It has been said that a "house divide can not stand." Of this we need not
fear. These imbeciles have never been members of our house. They can not
destroy it. They admit, by their own actions, that they lack the power.

Ben

Mr. Faust

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Someone asked about this statement:

"Nature, in her ineffable wisdom, wastes nothing. Seemingly useless but
parasitic or destructive persons should be used like clay pigeons: for
target practice"-Anton LaVey

I'll answer that one. Key word is "seemingly." The fact is, Nature in Her
ineffable Wisdom (that's right) has seen to it that a great majority of life
on earth uses parasitism as an extremely viable strategy for survival - and
such creatures have evolved methods of predation that make lions look like
lambs in comparison.

This quote of Dr. LaVey's is not much different from some of the "Pat
Buchannan and the Christian Coalition should WIN the election" rants posted
by Tani Jantsang as a wake up call to the sleeping herd, a reminder of just
where they are and who they are in relation to the society at large. I see
that the herd stands unreminded, still sleeping. It is no surprise to me
that an organization of freethinkers mocking organized religion's hypocrisy,
would evolve into one where "DOC SAID" becomes Scripture. Jesus said
parables. Some fools wrote them all down. They have become Scripture. You
know the rest of that story. It seems to be what some humans do when they
get organized, especially around a person who died.

There has never been a President elected to office in the USA that was not a
Christian or from a Christian background even if only in name. But today
Christians have a powerful coalition and candidates they want as president,
senators, you name it; they aim to take over. We all know what Christians
are and what they want to do. It surprises me that neither Dr. LaVey himself
when saying this, nor people quoting it, see that everything that ever came
forth from the COS or Doc is viewed as "destructive" to the Christian way of
life, nor do they realize that Christians who rule this country would see
Doc and the entire COS as parasites to be used as the clay pigeons.

Dr. LaVey was a human being. He lived through urban sprawl, inner city
destruction, impossible rises in cost of living (where the ice cream cone is
no longer five cents), and everything else that has caused the herd to "move
to the extreme right" politically. It surprises me personally that Doc did
not have the same clarity of sight he had when he was younger, the clarity
to see through all of it and KNOW with Undefiled Wisdom: WHO BENEFITS -
because surely, some few have benefited at the cost of everyone else,
including Doc. It does not surprise me that a bunch of herd followers now in
the COS are using his every word, even words lacking clarity, as Scripture.
It does not surprise me, but it does sadden me.

Magister Philip Marsh

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Hey Stewart,

If I may type on this. First of all, you are grossly confusing two entirely
different things: Fascism and National Socialism.

Fascism is what you see in the Christian Coalition today - a FASCES of
united but varying types of Christians (and some non-Christian religious
people too) that used to bicker amongst each other; but united as a FASCES
now, they all have ONE COMMON GOAL. SMASHING US is one of those goals. You
can easily see what this Fascism is by JOINING a huge Fascist organization
right here: the Christian Coalition.

National Socialism is SOCIALISM either in one country or amongst one ethnic
group sharing a language/culture. But it is nonetheless SOCIALISM. It is no
different from Marxism in terms of economic practices and PRO LABOR working
classes and it is AGAINST an aristocracy that would exploit the workers. A
National Socialist government now in the USA MIGHT be racist, might not be -
but it WOULD DEFINITELY nationalize industry, close the borders and RAISE
THE WAGES of the working class! It would TAKE money from those that would
otherwise exploit, and use that money to raise the wages of those who WORK
to make those owners all those profits. GET IT? Pat Buchannan would DO this.
If you want National Socialism: VOTE BUCHANNAN. Be aware that such
Nationalistic Socialism would also favor the MAJORITY religious and cultural
stream: and that IS Christian culture in the USA.

Neither you nor the other BIMBOS that get into the Concentration Camp "hard
ons" for Nazis seem to understand this basic difference. National Socialism
is a FAR LEFT movement. Fascism is a FAR RIGHT movement. The two do NOT
converge. National Socialism is pro working class and peasant. Fascism is
pro ruling classes (rich in the USA) pro corporation and pro military which
enforces the law. BIG difference.

It is Left Wing people and Marxist propagandists that repeated the lie that
"Hitler was a Fascist" in order to prevent anyone from thinking that STALIN
or MAO were ALSO Nazis. This propaganda and distortion took root during the
heyday of the Far Left in the USA. Why? Stalin also had socialism IN ONE
COUNTRY! So did MAO TSETUNG! Same thing! The National Bolshevik movement in
the xUSSR right now fully realizes this - they aren't brainwashed nor are
they political idiots.

Peggy can exculpate and exonerate the "kinky fetish for Nazis and EEEEVIL"
all she would like. She is clearly (read the article
http://www.apodion.com/vad/cos/s_n_nazi.shtml) catering to those boys who
have yet to GROW UP and GET OVER IT. Yeah, meanwhile they make HELL for
anyone not into their "thang." They play "Der Fuehrer" with COS members and
some newbies. And her statement that heh, "the Dark Force is a fascist
force" is STUPIDER than bloopers I make when I say "the Dark Force IS
entropy" without bothering to explain a damned thing. Chaos is the opposite
of Fascism, if anything the Dark Force has everything to do with CHAOS - not
with order!

The reality is, however, that there are REAL neo Nazis (really pro fascists
since none of them even KNOW what the "socialism" stands for in the
word....), KKK, Identity Christians well over 30,000 strong just the listed
ones in this country, and they are interwoven deeply into the Pat Robertson
type Christian Coalition trying to take over the government right now and
running behind George W. Bush. These very real Fascists HATE the COS, they
HATE Dr. LaVey as a "Jewish agent of ZOG" (they say a lot worse) they HATE
the kinky sex advocated by the demented neo-Nazi Satanists, and they are
DANGEROUS. On the other side of the coin, there are the very powerful Jewish
organizations and I'm quite surprised that they have NOT taken note already:
but do you know what that proves (or at least seems very suspicious)? They
might well be BEHIND this trend in the COS. Why is that proof? The ADL, a
known fact, has set up some of the BEST neo-Nazi movements in the country,
only in order to trap and catch not just the angry kids into it, but the
seriously minded types in government and in the entire Christian movement.
This is no different from FBI "COINTELPROs" and if anyone thinks they don't
do that they are not living in the real world. THAT the quasi-Satanists into
this fetish have NOT been persecuted by the Jewish groups, or more notably
Morris Dies, is even more proof positive, in the minds of the white
nationalists, that the COS IS INDEED operating as a JEWISH FRONT GROUP when
they promote Nazism. This may be false, it probably IS false, but trust me,
ALL of the real neo-Nazis, Identity Christians and that type - BELIEVE IT. I
have seen MUCH literature on this - advocating "kill the Anti-Christ." But
they don't tell us who that is. Then in a separate piece of trash I read
that "the Jew LaVey had a child with Whore of Babylon and this son of his is
Anti-Christ." SON? Do they mean XERXES? Add the two pieces of literature
together: 1. kill the anti-Christ and, 2. the anti-Christ is Doc LaVey's
son. Add it up. By all means, keep having fun. Keep jerking off with Nazi
uniforms on. Pant pant pant.

Don't believe me. Carry on. When and if tragedy occurs and blood is
spilled - remember I said this.

Mag Nadramia is not a political person. I AM. Did she ever have her phone
tapped? Her mail opened? Was she ever followed or called in to be questioned
by the FBI? Did she ever do subversive acts - REALLY subversive? NO! Does
she have any conception of what it would be like for a Cointelpro to be
launched against the COS? NO!

Does anyone in the Cos realize that the First Reich was the HOLY ROMAN
EMPIRE? Reich = Holy Roman Empire. So it is only amusing to me that Cultural
Christians are sexually hung up on, or sublimating their own inner rage on,
the Third Holy Roman Empire (Reich). It's a joke. As one old timer said to
me: "Too many kids with bald heads getting away with being assholes."

I can tell you something that can easily be proven and which both Mag's
Gilmore and Nadramia know. J.G., formerly a high agent of the ADL, retired
(??) from the ADL and set up a political amendment campaign, "Anti-Racial
Busing Campaign." Normally such things are very hard to get going and get
approved. However J's was RUSHED through Tallahassee and approved
immediately by Lee Atwater. It got bigger, expanded, included more things
than just forced busing. There were MANY allies and don't you think we KNOW
who they were? He was on TV - immediately! He was GIVEN a cable show and had
access to Heritage Foundation (also on TV) and all that. All doors were open
for him, no doors were shut. SOMEONE wanted this to be done! And so it was.
The issue was the forced busing of school children for purposes of forced
integration. J.G., remember, formerly high agent in ADL, became a lifetime
member of Council of Conservative Citizens - they are like the think tank
for the Christian Coalition. OK? And by the way, we won in the right-wing
Christian Supreme Court on the busing issue. What were two people born into
Satanic cultures (JG Ophite, myself Tantrik/Pythagorean) doing cooperating
with the Christian Coalition? Bending people to our own Wills, joining
people that never would have joined before and MAKING IT HAPPEN. That's what
Satanists DO; they don't go around yabbering about SATAN or making targets
out of themselves.

Fascism, dictatorship, bosses, repressive atmosphere, all that, is the
diametric opposite of Satanism - not just modern Satanism, but even
Christian INVERSIONIST Satanism. It amounts to a clique of little boys,
failures in life's real competitive world, that get into the COS, form their
little cliques of asskissers and dominators, and then commence to play
DICK-tator within the confines of this tiny little organization. They have
STIFLED speech from the heart and promoted repressive secrecy - just like in
any ultra Christian home. They are NOT content to be "evil" in the eyes of
the herd, as Rev. Nemo spoke of in his Pseudosatanism article. No: they play
this little game WITHIN the COS and on other COS members. Who else would
tolerate that kind of shitty treatment? Not anyone I know, not even a
peacenik Christian. Oh, former abuse victims would FIT RIGHT IN!!! THAT they
have either caused hundreds of people NOT to join after they got subjected
to it, or caused many others to turn away - or worse, join the ranks of
those pestering the COS so badly now that it seems that magazines can't get
produced on time, is not a positive thing for the COS. Now let me hear all
the whaa whaa and excuses for saying it up front. Hey, NO LOSS TO ME!!! :)
It's no LOSS to me if someone prefers to "judge" those who are turned away
as "foolish, mistaken, blah blah blah." No LOSS to me.

In my opinion, it speaks volumes for those that DO turn against it: they
WILL NOT be lorded over by ANY petty little tyrant playing god. They raise
up their own clenched fist and say FUCK YOU. THAT IS Satanic. That is
exactly what Satan in every myth said to "He Who Would Play God."

Have a nice day! I already did :)

Mag TJ.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Citizen Stewart to Mag TJ, Mag TJ back to Stewart.

Citizen Stewart asks: The reason I am asking these questions is that so you
may reply, so that the readers may actually understand if they too have some
of the same questions that I have, ok?

Answer: Sure, but I don't see what more there is to say here. Either you put
up with assholes or you don't. I'm not saying Nazis are assholes. I'm saying
that the Nazi or Fascist element in the COS are assholes. Who doesn't know
this? I got more complaints about it in 3 years than the COS has members.
LOL.

Citizen Stewart asks: Are they trying to destroy the CoS, and most
importantly when will these people come out of the closet and reveal
themselves, or are they right in front of our faces?

Answer: They? The Christian Coalition? The Christian Coalition is not only
in front of your face and our faces, but they got Jeb Bush, the Governor of
Florida, voted in despite Buddy McCay and others telling everyone he was a
Christian Fascist - something that Jeb Bush didn't even bother to deny! In
fact, that won Jeb Bush the Governorship! What I just explained about the
coalition of Christians banded together is what they THEMSELVES constantly
talk about with admiration of their own success! It's no secret - it's not
in any closet. Anyone who is not aware of this LIVES in a closet! What do
think that a coalition is? It is a FASCES. OK, what is a fasces? The image
is of a bundle of branches tied together. Imagine each Christian variation,
each little Christian church in every little town, is a branch, and other
religions (main ones, like Catholic and even some Jews) are other branches.
Branches are easy to break when they are single branches. COMBINE these
branches into one tight bunch and tie them together. Now you have something
as strong as a club: this is called a "fasces." When the fasces is not
branches, but is organizations of many Christian organizations (which have
many people in them) - it's called a COALITION. Christian Coalition.
Christian Fascism! This is a correct term.

Citizen Stewart asks: In the eighties, a great disdain grew over the flower
power, peace, love and dope mentality that persisted in the 1960's (This was
also evident in the CoS back then!) The symbolic representation could not,
ever, smash us real Satanists within -or- standing on the outside
looking-into it. Now, those on the outside looking in or on the inside
looking outside could very well be the problem presenting themselves in a
position a great hierarchy, a position of power and superiority which would
catch the attention of somebody that nobody in the COS wants to be involved
with, but in this case it is too late, but this can not be handled in terms
of Citizenship but it must be dealt with from the HP.

Answer: I have no idea if our HP is aware of factions within the CoS,
especially factions that want to MAKE the CoS into the NSWPP or KKK! When
Dr. LaVey became aware of a little bit of it, he threw some people out. But
they are back in the CoS again. I DO know that the real neo Nazis are aware
of it and I doubt that the ADL or people like Morris Dies are not aware of
it. I think these would-be Nazis are a tiny minority in the COS and possibly
in other Satanic orgs, but they are VERY LOUD - they are NOT LONERS; they
are attention seekers. See below for comment on "druggie utopia culture."

Addended answer to this: Dealt with? They'll deal with YOU, Stewart; you
were already told to shut up and watch out. Too bad you didn't log it.
Idiots like Lupo (a non-COS member who is now "loved" by the fascist
faction) come forth with yabberings about Michael Aquino's visit to
Himmler's castle, or my familiarity with neo-Nazis; these are all moot
points, if anything, they are SLANDER by means of distortion. We have no
idea what Aquino "found out" there - it may have made him loathe the Nazis.
He never told anyone. As for me - I was working WITH Jeff Gerber of the ADL.
I also "helped" other people working with law who wanted to know things.
Lupo can take that fact and doubt it all he wants. The slack lipped idiot
doesn't have a clue. I do, however, find it remarkable that "Mandates from
above" are never issued when this non-COS, formerly TOS, phony and liar
attacks two COS Mags on something Peggy and Peter ASKED US to defend the COS
on, as if it was a major issue. Yeah, TO THEM it was, obviously; to DOC it
was too. Meanwhile for anti-COSsers merely "accusing Peggy and Blanche of
being FAT," Mandates from on high are issued? Really! I seem to remember one
of the current "fascist idealists" calling a COS member fat - yet she is
fatter. No one defended him back then - except me. I also see slack lipped
Lupo poking fun of said person for being picked on in high school: FOR BEING
FAT. Of course, because I defended him, Lupo imagines that this person is my
"gelding." When does this shit end? This, is bullshit!

Roots One of Satanism and Roots Two, Convalescence from Christianity,
Package of Doctrines, all that hard copy stuff stands strong. NOTHING can
put a dent in those articles. Yet no one "asks the Waffen SS" to come out
and attack something that is most highly respected and which was respected
enough by Doc himself for him to make the titles ROOTS of Satanism on the
articles. Scholarly works proving the roots of Satanic thought are OK to
trash. They also now attack me for an interest I have and write about that
has NOTHING TO DO with Satanism? Oh, am I supposed to live and breathe and
toil for the Church like some god damned Fundamentalist Born Again
Christian? What are these bastards even DOING looking at "other stuff" I do
or write? Why does this matter to them? Because they are regulating little
cliquish LOSERS with a new clique in what they IMAGINE is some huge
organization. My personal "interests" don't tow THEIR party line. What are
they even DOING with their noses in my interests? They are being CHRISTIANS,
snoopy little regulating PUNKS. CULTURAL CHRISTIANS 100%.

Oh, phphph. Please. Factions? They'll tell you that I put you up to this
project, they'll tell you that you are my slave for doing this project,
they'll try to convince you that you are not your own self. They'll call you
a "traitor." JUST WATCH. I'll bet you MONEY! They'll even try to convince
you that this was not YOUR OWN idea - but that somehow it was mine, despite
the fact that I was reluctant to even ANSWER you. After all, I didn't know
what you wanted - and you ARE in the SCS and those running it are more
Fascist than Mussolini or Hitler ever were: cult of Mishima for hell's
sakes: YICH! When you explained it, I said OK. But just WATCH what they do
with this - and DO TO YOU. Of course, it will all amount to "in-group"
high-school tactic EGO SHIT - means nothing in the real world. See, whenever
the Christian child does bad shit or fucks up, the Christian Parent ALWAYS
imagines that it has something to do with OTHER PEOPLE that the little brat
is hanging out with. That's the mentality that RULES the fascist faction. If
anyone "back then" said "Dr. Aquino" instead of MIKEY, the Cultural
Christians would suspect them, sure. Of course, while CALLING OUT the dogs
(including us) to fight this battle, the opinions "never reflected on the
COS or the COS person posting it." Yeah, right. SURE. I was 100% aware of
that: BACK THEN TOO. IDGAF!

Fact is, you are the one who elicited responses from everyone on here
responding. But they'll DEPRIVE you of your own idea and desire to do this.
They'll TRASH you and accuse me of magically, mystically, using some
horrible Bolshevik methods, of BRAINWASHING you. JUST WATCH. I'll bet you
money! $10 bucks, I wager it right now.

Citizen Stewart asks: It's also my understanding that wasn't the intentions
to begin with, an admiration for Charles Manson a Cultist who compelled
people to kill for him, and he also killed is a rather bit far fetched
ESPECIALLY to treat him as a gifted philosopher.

Answer: this was primarily the doing of Nikolas Schreck - now a Priest in
the Temple of Set. Charlie Manson was a loser and a misfit, and only the
most uneducated of fools would find merit in ANYTHING that man had to say.
He should have simply and quietly been put to death for his crimes. I
remember back when it all happened. Manson was a destructive person and IS
NOW a parasite living the high life in jail. Government should SHOOT HIM
like a clay pigeon.

Citizen Stewart asks: One thing they do have a point is, he did fuck up
their vivid pipe dreams of a Utopia of a drug using society. Is that the
point? No, he killed people and USED these symbols, engraved them into his
fore head and all of a sudden he's some kind of "mascot for Satanism in the
eighties"? or mascot for Satanism in general. Explain that.

Answer: Charles Manson was a drug user himself. This is only the idea of
those who are completely unaware of the NON-drug activities and tremendous
things happening in the country back then. For some very strange reason, the
youth of THIS generation have a total lack of information about these
non-drug MAJOR happenings in the country! I find that remarkable. WHO has
kept this information from the youth of today? Major things happened in the
country that had nothing to do with drugs: the anti-war movement, the
Women's rights movement (not feminism), the alternative religion movement
WHICH COS IS NOT ONLY INTRICATELY A PART OF BUT OWES ITS VERY EXISTENCE TO,
and the Gay and Black rights movements. None of these things involved drugs
or pipe dreams of a utopia. The hippie drug scene was mostly a pack of
Cultural Christians, spoiled little bourgeois brats with too much time on
their hands, or Drug Guru professors on the payroll of the CIA. They had NO
political awareness at all.

Citizen Stewart asks: The Government is in favor of the Christians already.
Let the churches pay taxes, see how fast the national debt would be wiped
out. You think they would be in favor of that? Hell no. And what would
become of this country if we put the Christians in more power, say, how long
has it been anyway since the last Inquisition? This is all covered in The
First Amendment, I protect that right, put them in more power and see, watch
it all just fade away like it never even... existed!

Answer: I was hoping that ALL Satanists already knew this fact!!! I do
believe that the Wiccan and Pagan communities know it all TOO well. Are they
more aware of the real world than Satanists are? And if they are: WHY?
Perhaps they are not the ones living in a pipe dream at all.

Citizen Stewart asks: So what if they do take the money raised the wages for
the working class as opposed to the industries that would get the profit.
That's their right to profit, how about this, shut down all the large
industries companies, have the working class lose all their jobs due to the
fact that the people who own these have no way of paying up due to the fact
that his money is going into paying the working class citizen 1 and 2
distributing supplies, however not as many supplies, therefore not as much
work FOR the working class citizen.

Answer: lol - have you been reading Karl Marx? That COULD happen. What would
happen if it did? REVOLUTION!!! Have you ever lived through a riot, gotten
shot at by many bullets and shot people back? I have. It's NOT fun.
Understand something: these "big industries" are NOTHING without people
working IN them MAKING the junk they make and sell at HUGE profits - profits
they never share with the people who MADE the junk! They also get the metal
and petroleum for plastic parts and etc. from pure exploitation of 3rd world
labor and resources! It's a spiraling vortex of consumption. And when
overproduction crashes into underconsumption by people who can't afford to
buy the junk? That's a "crisis in capitalism." And when industries move away
to hire cheaper labor? What if those workers refuse to work? Nothing gets
made without the TOILING HANDS that make the junk. The industries are
NOTHING without the working classes! What good is a factory with equipment
and no one to work the equipment? And what good are millions of new cars if
no one buys them?

Citizen Stewart asks: So guess what, Mr. Pat Buchannan can go to Hell. I'm
all in favor for making work available for everybody that means everybody
who has the right toward advancement. "Every dog has it's day" and the
Christians had theirs, they fucked it up, they know. They bit the very hand
that fed them, the people, the individuals whom got slaughtered throughout
the two thousand centuries. It was illegal for Social Darwinism to be taught
in schools, in the twentieth century it persisted, remember the "Satanic
Panic" scare? They raided Aquino's house, looked throughout all of his
personal belongings, and even DARED to mention "his living room was painted
black" took him to court, what happened? They didn't have an inch of
evidence against him. And all this despite He is Not a Satanist! You know
what that is, that's self destruction. You spelled it out so everyone could
hear, loud and clear what a klippoth is. Just imagine how they'd react to
the Real Satanists!

Answer: there is no question here - I agree with the sentiment. Social
Darwinism is not an evolutionary biological reality. It is nothing but a
SOCIAL concept - it is pseudo-science! It is Darwin grossly misinterpreted
and taken outside of real biology. (Read a real biologist: Niles Eldredge:
"Redefining Darwin." He explains it all in simple words and explains what
"social" Darwinism is and how that pseudoscience came into being.)

If you think raiding Dr. Aquino's house is an outrage - consider this: they
COULD raid your house, arrest you, hold you without bail and no avenue to
legal help. They COULD shoot you. They COULD give you a lobotomy or electro
shock therapy. They COULD torture you. They COULD. And in many many places
in the world - THEY DO. You know we chat with a fellow called SmokingMirror.
He mailed $100 in an envelope to the Church of Satan. The letter never left
Columbia. They came for him. They arrested him. They interrogated him. And
he can't leave unless the DAS (like our FBI) clears him of his CRIMINAL
RECORD. But what is Smoke's crime? He wrote to the Church of Satan. They
COULD have shot him. They could have done anything they wanted to do. Get
that through your heads. The Christian Coalition is a reality - they are
POWERFUL and they aim to take over this government. And what would want to
make here? Christian Fascism. WAKE UP! (I betcha they don't wake up.....)

Cit Stewart: Again, here this is not a very surprising thing to me, not at
all. As for Jeb Bush winning despite the fact he wouldn't bother denying,
what is there to deny when there is nothing. Fact is, as long as we are the
Minority, and the Christian Coalition is in power we can't do anything About
it. The people voted for him, the herd minded fools who swarm like viscous
bees protecting their Queen. And in this case they did just that. What can
we do about that? Mag. Tani Jantsang has mentioned in her article "Mastering
Satanism" that they are in fact Satanic organizations, this cannot be
doubted, and not even in the least it's seriousness.

Mag TJ corrects misconception: These are not Satanic organizations. They are
Christian organizations but they no longer represent the majority of their
own Christian people. That does not mean they are Satanic. They aren't. If
the lay Christians, the hard working honest Christian people, knew what
these organizations were up to, they'd call them traitors to the USA.

Cit Stewart continues: The significance is founded those who would disorient
us and weave their way into "the established system" and cause all of the
trouble they can, and even perhaps use controversies to attract attention.
Indeed, Satanism is a controversy, but is it a controversy in the form of
burning churches down, proclaiming that one race is more "strong" then the
other and what is strong, how could those foolish ingrates have
misinterpreted "Might is Right" by the Honorable Ragner Redbeard. Right is
Right, and reason is in season for every last individual who thinks they can
tear down the Infernal Empire upon which the Doktor Anton Szandor LaVey
founded, dumb founded dip shits scurry about in their herd, there Fasces,
and right wing political movements- and What do they know about US anyway?
The controversy? I'll tell you right now what controversy is, controversy is
murdering over a five thousand or more people for the sake of religion for
the mistake that many have misinterpreted "Might" over the last 2000
years!!! The "controversy" isn't found in these so called impotent Magical
symbols, if they ever were Magical symbols, and they were used for that
specific belief that revolves and encircles it then it very well is not
controversy! No! No! No! It is wrong if it is to be used for that specific
purpose, "Behold the cross, what does it represent: Pallid incompetence
hanging on a tree" and as long as their incompetence reins, not much can be
done about it. Eat it out like Cancer, exterminate them, and every Fascist
Satanic individual will be, and might be Might, but it certainly will never
be Left, nor right nor anything in between the two. Yes, it will be under a
right wing mentality, a Christian mentality, Genocide, getting it?
Inquisition? The riddle isn't that hard to answer, you would have to be
stupid not to see that, and stupidity should-be-painful. And in their case,
self-destruction, it is, and will be. The Governor of Florida flourishes on
what is Might, he thrives upon their very existence, the only thing there is
left to do is ADVANCE, advancement is the key, and the combination to open
it is different for every person, the postulate is undefiled Power,
Undefiled Wisdom and most importantly the use of our First Amendment right
that we all have to exorcise in order to advance and it's up to you if you
would like to open that door, but never Misplace the key.

Mag TJ comments: And if We The People (the majority) have no clue what the
Amendments are? Then We The People will be duped, deceived and not even know
what we have given up. Remember: "IT" can happen here too. Americans are far
too comfortable in America to REALIZE that. That is why I occasionally post
a sarcastic post saying something like "Buchannan SHOULD WIN" which is in
effect saying that I'm HAILING the Christian Coalition's most FANATICAL
faction! I PERSONALLY would stand nothing to lose if Buchannan did win - AND
TAKE OVER. All that would be needed is to fabricate an emergency (Islamic
terrorist bombing, or linking "ALL the Negroes" to Islamic terrorism - a
good excuse to round them all up, something like that, Islamic terrorists
sneaks in posing as a Mexican illegal alien, etc.), and declare a State of
Emergency: in which case the President of the USA BECOMES a dejure
DICTATOR - DEJURE!. But the great majority of people in the COS? What would
they lose? Ha Ha Ha. Everything.

Citizen Stewart comments on previous reply: So what your saying makes sense
in terms of these individuals having a Fasces, yes, however it must be
understood that a lot of Christians can't even agree with each other most of
the time, and when they aren't arguing what "path" leads to Heaven or Hell,
I can see this type of thing happening.

Mag TJ replies: RUBBISH! These are trivial disagreements on spiritual
matters. They DO FOLLOW THEIR LEADERS AND DO AS THEY ARE TOLD: GOOD SHEEP!
And what their leaders are preaching has NOTHING to do with heaven or hell -
OR Jesus! It's MIGHT MAKES RIGHT! Brute Force. Take Over. FIND ME the
Fundamentalist Christian that truly believes in heaven, hell, the soul and
Armageddon who DOES NOT put money in his flesh and blood 4 year old's
worldly bank account for that kids FUTURE worldly college education! HA! So
much for the spirit.

Cit Stewart continues on previous reply: The Catholic Church is trying to do
exactly that, right now, however, I do not think it is going to happen where
it got so bad where I couldn't get a job and pay my bills on time, and most
importantly live a Satanic lifestyle.

Mag TJ quips: I hope these don't serve to be famous last words!

Cit Stewart continues on previous reply: But Magistra Jantsang does have a
highly valid point, in which every Satanist should take note of the Highly
valued essay entitled "Mastering Satanism" which gets into how Satanic
Organizations in this day and age are being surrounded, it's called
Christian Encirclement. This is hardly a joke and I feel that essay should
be a must read for those Satanists reading this article.

Mag TJ replies: Dream on. Most of those preaching this fascist rubbish never
even read the hallmark article Roots One of Satanism, nor have they read
Evolution Christians and Setians. They don't want to KNOW anything at all.
They want to Play Fascist. They HATE our Satanic stuff and think that the
respect we EARNED came from the mere commentary polemic on HrVad's website.
It didn't. Why? Because it refutes all they are: it refutes Cruxtoids. These
morons, even the best of them, don't realize that they are thoroughly in
tune with the HERD REACTION to liberal draconian FASCIST tyranny previously
forced on the nation in certain areas of social life (not all areas) -
forced - why? in order to CAUSE this easily predicted reaction? They are
such PUPPETS yet they have no clue who their puppet masters are? They don't
even realize they are being manipulated! That's pretty pathetic! The holders
of the strings PULL and they REact. They are thoroughly IN TUNE with the
mass herd reaction right now: AND too stupid to even realize it. And LIKE
the herd which needs religious justification or pseudo-scientific
justification, they are having delusions about hierarchies in nature!
IDIOTS! STUPID! In which case, I HOPE BUCANNAN WINS - just so that I may see
these idiots languish in concentration camps. I'd even volunteer for the job
of guard, praising JEEEEEEzuus all the way. As a Serpent, I'm thoroughly in
favor of GIVING Adam just what he wants: APPLES - i.e., a CURSE upon his
generations. Shit, I'd BUY a gas chamber and rent it out cheap.

Cit Stewart asks: I do understand that, but what I'm trying to say is there
is a very high chance that could happen. Take away the money that would
usually go into paying the people who make the products for the people who
make the goods, take away their power, where do they go, they go to where to
profit is, why, because there's not as much money involved. On the other
hand if we would lower the rate, make living a little simpler for the
working citizen, then yeah, however the construction of houses wouldn't be a
very popular endeavor if they wouldn't get paid as much as they do now. They
get paid good money. And so do those who are getting a profit, who never
share the money, but again, that is their right toward advancement, in that
system there should never even be any people holding other people down,
because when you hold it down, that's not going to erase the problem.
Because if you put that ONE industry over power of everything else, and that
is where the profit is, what happens if they are a Christian? How many
active Christians are there today? Have I ever lived through a riot? I have
never even seen a riot, riot is anarchy, pure anarchy, and even in without a
Government the Herd will still need something to stand by. We have a
government, they have something to stand by, however the government is not
standing by them- The Atheists and every single alternative religious creed
will be on them, and they would never hear the end of it, and that is good.
Hey, they're standing behind us, the Satanic, the Wiccan, the Pagan, the
Atheist, the philosopher, the... Whatever! You get the idea. What the
problem here is, is that regardless of this fact we are still the minority,
and while they might not have that much power over us, they will continually
try, oh, they will try, they'll try until they get blue in the face, and in
some cases they have one, the anti abortionists fuck'n bomb the Abortion
Clinics 'cause they feel what they believe is "right" Pro Life? Yeah,
whatever, Life is made of all kinds of different and difficult choices; the
ones who are doing this aren't even a problem! The ones with political pull
are. And I'm not just talking about the abortion issue either, I'm talking
about The Christian Coalition and Encirclement, and how some people fail to
recognize these people by their own true faces.

Mag. TJ says to this sort of incoherent statement: you need to learn more
about economic realities. Money always manages to go AWAY from the workers
who produce everything - and it ends up in the bank accounts of those who
produce NOTHING - either those at the top that "own a building and hire
workers to work in it" or those kept on the bottom - the underclasses. When
times get tight, the working class has an easy scapegoat: the underclasses -
the parasites. Yet the BIG Parasite McDonald's in one year gets more welfare
than ALL the single welfare mothers put together - and that's only one
company. Corporate welfare is hidden - but the welfare queen is very
visible - an easy target.

I want to say something also: meritocracy is NOT the same as hierarchy. Not
at all. This is a DANGEROUS misconception that I believe is born in the
smothered hearts of people who are presently RAGING against society.
(Suggestion: move out of the neighborhood...)

Most often you DO NOT have ANY meritocracy in ANY hierarchy, whether that
"-archy" is Monarchy, Oligarchy, Patriarchy or other. NONE. What you have
instead is STASIS, static classes, static positions in society, static roles
based NOT on what you are or can do, but on WHO you are. YES! From
generation to generation, or group to group, you have the STATUS QUO. The
appearance of stratification in hierarchies (classes DUH) are nothing but
appearances that have NOTHING AT ALL to do with the MERIT of the individual.
YES! I say "most often" because such systems are overthrown and what you get
as a result is anarchy and slaughter.

But here is the trick: meritocracies lead to stratification, and each
"strata" that forms in the society - AT ANY GIVEN TIME (important) - COULD
BE looked at as a hierarchy in a very loose way, the loosest of ways - so
loose that it's not even a hierarchy - because it's an ever changing
hierarchy, it's ALWAYS in motion and never the same. Not only from
generation to generation but even within one lifetime, the strata changes.
This is a MAJOR difference. This is also how the entire web of life works in
real nature. The other is only the way nature is in the minds of those that
either desire to make nature what it is not, or those just too stupid to
understand the NOT-so-subtle difference.

Mag. TJ

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Mag TJ reply to a heap of emails containing text shown elsewhere?. Contains
commentary on possible Freudian connection all the way to music that seems
to typify the fascist "satanic" faction spoken of in "Lucifer Rising." In
case the other mentions are not in here, I just repeated them.

Someone said: Try this: people feel like shit about themselves (feces) so
they turn to fasces. They are blinded and broken: Not See (Nazi). They are
hyper patriarchal: Hitler = Hit Her? Perhaps even Shitler?

The ONLY people who have historically turned to such movements on their own
were horribly self-hating and broken - like the blacks with Black
Nationalism. LIKE the blacks with their pseudoscience about civilization,
the Aryans seem to have the same desire for bullshit and so does the
"Fascist faction" now in the Satanic realm. It is a Desire in the Heart for
A LIE!

All other fascism arose from CIA setting up military dictatorships in 3rd
world countries. That's not even debatable now: the CIA admits it on
documentaries.

Going back to Ole's REPRESSION note and Metadromos' essay on oppressed and
broken nations: First of all, why did the CIA bring fascism to these
nations? Why didn't they bring socialism there? Or democracy? Did the CIA
bring fascism because they wanted these nations to be free? HA! Hell no.
They created a Dante's Christian Hell in these places. Shades of ugly gray,
beaten and broken skeletal people. What were the 3 favorite Fascist call
words? God, Country, Family. Note that the 3 words were NOT: Liberty,
Equality, Freedom.

Look carefully at the images of this fascism. They are very austere and
ascetic. Very MONKISH. WHO does this appeal to? And this faction is notably
MALE and WHITE. WHY is that? Why? (We know why). They say themselves that
the few females into it are masochistic (waste products). In other words,
they are hysterics. See MALE DISEASE - the Female Disease portion. Hr.Vad's
website.

Let us look at the name of the music that (in general) appeals to this
faction: DEATH metal, THRASH (as like ophionic people do) metal? Even BLACK
metal but do they mean Black as in "Black folks?" They mean black as their
own archetype as "black is evil." They mean black as in BLACK HOLE - which
is what they have in their own hearts. NOTHINGNESS: and it is THIS they are
THRASHING against: their own inner DEATH. They DON'T mean the soft yin of
quiet darkness at all. MOONLIGHT SONATA is dark - one of the darkest pieces
ever written. It is quiet. It is BEAUTIFUL. They don't mean that at all.
Look at the gray tones and UGLINESS of all of what appeals to them, look
even how they make themselves look: like zombies, like the DEAD.

It may be akathartic for THEM to become screaming frothing "HEAD bangers"
(bang their heads? numb out their brains?) and they need that catharsis
because? Because? Flowing people don't need catharsis because they are NOT
PENT UP, they are normally Cathartic people. NORMALLY: All the time. They
might get mad - but they explode instantly and it's GONE, they have inner
liberation ALL THE TIME. And that is INNER PEACE.

What stops these others' catharsis at every moment is their chain-bound
hearts. So occasionally they need to WAIL at themselves - and this they
THINK is a catharsis? No, it's not! For them it is - it's the best they can
do. What the HELL does it look like and sound like to those of us who DO NOT
NEED that catharsis? I wrote much about it: it's a noisy whine and scream
from the hearts of the DAMNED, the hearts in CHAINS tearing at their own
chains. Yet WHAT CHAINS are on these people? I see no chains. They are NOT
living in Zimbabwe! They are free, in the free world; they are even mostly
suburban well off people compared to the world. What is this they SCREAM out
against - that noisy raucous internal scream? They are screaming and wailing
at THEIR OWN BEINGS! YES! They are NOT wailing at the world or they'd join a
fucking labor union or get involved in some REAL struggle. I see the images
they idolize (Nazi ones, and by the way, also Soviet ones!) and yet none of
them are built like that. Most of us anti-fascists ARE! They are probably
wailing against the probably shitty treatment they got during their
formative and teenaged years.

Neither I nor anyone else that is normal, not repressed, wants to HEAR IT -
or SEE IT. It's HELLISH - it is purely ophionic. It's like the Obic Vortex
has them in chains like puppets and the ONLY thing they can show the world
is the Obic Vortex, in everything they do, clothes, music, ideas, etc. The
music itself ASSAULTS the chakras and trying to talk to them, WAITING for
them to sloooly spit out their murky ideas also assaults the chakras. What
do you think people who flow feel when they hear this noise?

As for their "music," it's not as if they go off on their own and listen to
it. NO. They are NOT DOING that. People who listen to classical music go off
on their own and do that. If they going off on their own I'd say nothing.
They are trying to SHOVE IT at normal people, they are trying to TAKE OVER
Satanism. Before they started the "disco sucks" movement, and why did they
do this? It wasn't even fundie Christians that did this. THESE KLIPPOTHS did
it. They couldn't STAND to KNOW that there are people who are NOT like them.
Even recently one of their klippoths whose "music" is the most AWFUL SHIT I
ever heard (and I'm a trained classical musician) tried to flame me by
calling me a what? "disco horse dancer" whatever the hell that is. Phil and
I are accomplished ballroom dancers. Ballroom music: that's the kind of
music Doc LaVey played. The very existence of people whose lives are JOY are
a refutation of these klippoths: SURE they can see us! And do they like us?
NO. They have self-hate ergo they hate everything else. They would enchain
US so we could join them in their misery. No thanks! I'd kill them before
I'd kill the sincere Christians.

These people are well grown past all that shit that broke them in their
past. And I DO NOT want to hear any bullshit about how someone is NOT broken
when, for instance, husband number one was an abuser with whom she had 3
kids, and husband number 2 is a manic-depressive with whom she had 2 more
kids, they are fascists that poke fun of Auschwitz. That's broken. Yet they
are IN CHAINS still. What do they look like to those of us who NEVER HAD
CHAINS? They REACT to it overmuch. What does this reaction feel like and
look like to us who don't HAVE TO react to anything? It's WORSE than looking
at or listening to Pat Robertson. And they want the normals to join them in
their inner hellish reactions?

It is only appealing to those THAT HAVE BEEN broken in the root and in the
heart. ONLY appealing to them. The Germans were broken and the blacks are
broken. They both got into the same thing: fascism. The CIA did not impose
this on them. They did it to themselves. Point is, I do not see black
fascists TRYING TO BE Satanists and take over a Satanic Church! They are not
that far gone.

That IS the fascist faction. That IS their noise. But they are not
necessarily reacting to the Christian Upbringing Syndrome. They are reacting
to something that TOOK OVER American society due to past actions of one
ethnic group. They are reacting to the near deification of the formerly
bottom ethnic group! They are reacting to "liberals" who were really
suffocating draconian FASCIST tyrants in disguise. The Fascists in the
Satanic movement are so stupid as to think Christianity is at fault:

Congressional Record, Published by the U. S. Government Printing office,
Proceedings of the House, 1957, page 8559, starting on column one: Israel
Cohen, a leading "communist"* in England, in his "A Racial Program for the
Twentieth Century," wrote: "We must realize that our Party's most powerful
weapon is racial tension. By pounding into the consciousness of the dark
races that for centuries they have been oppressed by the whites, we can
mould them to the program of the communist party*. In America we will aim
for subtle victory. While inflaming the Negro minority against the whites,
we will instill into the whites a guilt complex for their exploitation of
the Negroes. We will aid the Negroes to rise in prominence in every walk of
life, in the professions and in the world of sports and entertainment. With
this prestige, the Negro will be able to intermarry with the whites and
begin a process which will deliver America into our hands." !!!

*communist. This is well after Stalin - it is Khrushchev - a state
capitalist at Cold War with the USA - who swore to BURY the USA from within.
Not a Communist at all, but the world called it "communism." This was NOT
the real, genuine Communist's SUGGESTION for REALLY persecuted blacks during
Stalin's time. Stalin and those real Communists rationally said: they should
have their OWN NATION! This pseudo-Communist also shows that the policies of
Khrushchev relied on a false and racist idea about intermarriage! It is also
well known now that M. L. King was funded by money from Moscow through his
number one aid. ML King's ideas for Civil Rights were fine: but they were
SUBVERTED!!! So there you have it. Christianity and the whole rest was
SUBVERTED by super-spies and this is on record, it was known. FBI J. E.
Hoover's data is available now and the Soviet archives are OPEN.

What you see now, however, is an equally imbalanced REACTION by morons who
don't even know what egalitarianism or what true meritocracy is. They want
to heave out the baby with the bathwater - and heave out the tub too and
trash the whole house! What these morons don't even realize is that this
subversive activity has also destroyed the blacks! And what do we see rising
with the blacks? Farrakhan? Pseudo scientific theories? Same thing. Black
Fascists! They are ALSO anti-Christian! They are still not so stupid as to
try to be Satanic!

Mag, TJ

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Dear Stewart

First of all, let me state here that my mastery of the English language is
not the best, so please try to ignore any bad grammar, wrong sentence
structure, typos, and such things.

The following is my take on this subject, even though it'll be a bit
"alien," so to speak, because I hail from a strongly Catholic country, and
yet have not been consumed by the ever-increasing wave of
Christian-fundamentalism which seems to permeate the USA and part of
Europe... However, the Roman Church has its own version of a "Fundamentalist
Army"

Many people have asked me "what could be the connection between Satanism,
Fascism, Nazism, etc." They have one thing in common; all of them have been
labeled "evil" ..and that Nazi aesthetic (if there is such a thing) has a
strong fascination for many people, (passive people, mostly) as it is
associated very often with "strength" "power" and things of that sort. I
think Magister Philip Marsh explains it in a superb way when he states:
"...It is the motivation behind every one of your so-called "Satanic" acts.
In these acts, you reap vengeance only on yourself, and futilely attempt it
on the Christian repressors of your own childhood and pubescent
sexuality..." That is, those who were bullied when they were children,
become bullies themselves when they grow up. And the use of Nazi aesthetic
and imagery may be just a device to trigger the fear factor on the
collective unconscious.

Obviously, I've always been quick to point out that both Fascism and certain
aspects of NSDAP policies are products of Christianity, (remember that both
the Catholic and the Lutheran Churches hailed Hitler as a new Messiah, and
he saw himself as such... he said that he had came to end the task Jesus
couldn't finish... about which task might that be, I have no clue) the most
abhorrent of that particular set of beliefs. We know exactly what fascism
is, as it existed in Mussolini's Italy and Franco's Spain, and some South
American countries during the 70's (military dictatorships, "sponsored" by
the US government in general, and the CIA in particular, in Argentina,
Chile, Paraguay, Uruguay, Bolivia and Colombia among others) that is, family
values a la Christianity, blind obedience-follow the leader-Christian
morality, phallocracy (as in phallus) submitting oneself to the Will of the
State, which is hardly Satanic, and as Sir_Chaos said previously: "..Since
when did Satanism exalt anything above the individual? Since when did
"severe economic and social regimentation" become a Satanic principal? In
this context Satan is nothing but The Opposition, and it's obvious where
that puts us..."

Here is an excerpt from an interview Rev Leyba did with himself (Citizen
Stewart, if you haven't read it, I strongly encourage you to do so. Rev
Leyba makes some clever remarks concerning the subtle(?) American fascism:

-----excerpt begins here-----

"...Joseph Campbell in the "Power of Myth" said, "The function of the
society is to cultivate the individual. It is not the function of the
individual to support society. Man should not be in the service of society,
society should be in the service of man. When man is in the service of
society, you have a monster state, and that's what is threatening the world
at this minute." What I fear most is the Monster State..."

"...Nietzsche and LaVey speak of the danger of joining "the Herd" of
humanity and following mindlessly [...] " As soon as people get together in
masses and submerge the individual, the shadow is mobilized, and, as history
shows, may be personified and incarnated", said Jung..." What does Coyote
fear?

COYOTE; A world police state. A Corporate World Government accountable to no
one. Pre-millennial fascism is at an all time high, and prisons are
profitable. Corporate mergers make me nervous - soon we will have freedom
from choice. There will be "The Bank", "The Restaurant", "The Religion" and
"The Truth". I fear the Corporate Gestapo rap tap tappin on my chamber door,
and arresting me for my art. Don't forget that most of the Surrealists fled
to America, barely escaping execution by the Nazis in WWII.

-----excerpt ends here-----

Now, I know that LaVey advocated strengthening the police to keep all you
assholes in line (hehehe) or in other words, advocated a strong policy
against criminals and wrongdoers, so the punishment fits the crime... Let me
quote Doc:

"...The extreme right-wing, like the extreme left, I find to be a rather
humorless lot given to blaming everyone but their own kind for the plight
they crusade against. The same applies to racism. There would be no problem
if the gentile white man had done something when he was the majority. Now,
he's trying to close the barn door after the horse runs away. That's why I
believe in stratification by allowing water to seek its own level. It's
something that can, and is, being done. I'm all for a police state; no
messing around. There should be an armed guard on every street corner. The
Israelis have the right idea: school bus drivers and MacDonalds managers
carrying Uzis. ..."

...and concerning the "Strength Through Joy" concept... hell, any factory
owner should know that the greatest need of human life is stimulation... a
happy worker will work more, and will be more efficient... he'll do his job
well, and both parties will be gaining something at the end.

You people in the USA have the Christian Coalition... Well, when they saw
that most of its adherents were running away to join the followers of fundie
Christian groups, the Roman Church had created a "Christian-doctrine
enforcement order" already, called the "Opus Dei" (God's Work). Founded in
the 30's in Franco's Spain, the Opus Dei seeks to attract-actually, they're
attracting quite a lot of-wealthy Catholics to place them gradually in
positions of power, so they could defend an agenda dictated-directly-from
the Vatican itself, like trying to ban sexual education in schools as well
as in colleges, because it was "against morality" (or, in other words,
encouraging irresponsible breeding) attempting to ban evolutionary theory,
and trying to play with people's fears and prejudices, focusing the masses'
aggression to convenient enemies and scapegoats, and the ever-present shadow
of "Evil".

There is a high ranking member of the Spanish government-a bona fide
Satanist-who told me he was horrified by what he calls "the New
Inquisition"... far right-wing groups-obviously Catholics-have tried to rise
collective paranoia and fear of the devil, unleashing a new witch
hunt-quickly labeling themselves as "good" (after all, the best way to hide
your malevolent intentions is to present yourself as the "good guy" so no
one will suspect anything)-- where they accuse any potential enemies of the
government of being members of "satanic cults" and of being "evil" and
"dangerous" and "a threat to our society and family values" and --when we
know that the most dangerous cults ever have always been Christian-making
their lives a living hell-we know there are many nuts out there, and even
when Christians try to overlook these kinds of "little details", there are a
high number of crimes committed in the name of the cross, mostly motivated
by the primal fear of the unknown. In fact, some people have organized some
kind of anti-satanic death squads in several cities of this shithole for a
country-yes, well, they're targeting a bunch of metalheads, I know, but that
single fact speaks volumes about their intentions...

Some people try to dismiss Christianity as if it were already dead. Maybe
the religion per se is dying, but the damage is done, and "cultural
Christianity" is here, and will be here for a long time, and is stronger
than ever... just look around. What a subtle fascism we have in our western
civilization... funny how people can be so blind... "there is no worse blind
man than the one who is unwilling to see" and they don't want to see.

Those who advocate "fascism" and the Hobbesian concept of "Law of the
Jungle" are the less able to survive in a REAL hardcore fascist state, and
will be the first to lock up their little suburban home doors if a riot ever
happens to "walk down" the strasse. (See Hr Vad' "Carnal Reality and Social
Darwinism") Come here, to South America, where life is cheap... so cheap
that they'd blow your head away for just 200 bucks. Come and see if you like
it. Life is easy. Try to send a letter to the Church of Satan and see what
happens to you. Paraphrasing Mag Tani Jantsang: A country where the
government favors the MAJORITY religious and cultural stream: Catholicism,
its dogma and ethics, and bans and/or persecutes anything which is against
its tenets. A government who is pro ruling classes, pro corporation and pro
military which enforces the law. THAT is Fascism.

If anyone sees something "Satanic" in that, please, let me know, 'cause I
can't see it myself. And if someone comes up with something like "Wait, no.
Don't get me wrong! I'm not talking about THAT kind of fascism... I just
advocate Satanic Fascism! Something that works for us all!" please do inform
me as well... I'd be VERY interested to know what the fuck is that supposed
to mean... (I bet there must be someone out there who actually BELIVES that
there is such a thing). And if it ever happens, we would be doing just the
same thing Christianity has done, is doing, and will keep doing, so what's
the point in being just another version of Christianity?

Those were my two cents worth. I know I haven't said anything new because
all this is plain and clear to me. It's not only about politics, or
religion, or aesthetics, or all of them. There is nothing bad about liking
certain aspects of any of those items (such as strong crime policy). Like
there is nothing bad about believing in a real god-or devil-I don't care,
each one has a right to be a little stupid sometimes. But when you try to
force others to accept and even swallow your own ideas as if they were the
one true way, now there IS something bad about that. Examples? The Roman
Church, the Christians responsible for the Native-American Holocaust, the
south-American dictatorships which banned rock music, persecuted
homosexuals, as well as anything which went against their "values".

Just one more thing. Even though I find some of Les Masters's posts on
alt.satanism to be just pointless (like the crackers jokes) I agree
wholeheartedly with this following statement he made:

"...If the truth be known, REAL Nazis would not think twice about gassing
anyone affiliated with Satanism..."

"...They are the worst of worst Christians. If the media got word of this
combination, it would be the start of a Satanic inquisition unprecedented in
our history. Law enforcement, as a whole, openly frowns on Satanism. We as
Satanists would mostly have to protect ourselves. If those few continue to
play with fire, they will not be the only ones to get burnt!..."

Note: Mag TJ had said in an email regarding law enforcement: "that so many
in Satanic organizations openly brag about being in law enforcement is MORE
DANGEROUS to all Satanists than any of the wild stories Egan tells. "So,
this is the reason why the police and FBI never found evidence of Satanic
Crimes: the cops on the case were probably Satanists." This is a NEW angle
on SRA. They already believed all that other hype."

Bye

Daniel Meléndez aka Tezcat aka SmokeMirror

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Dear Stewart

Ole said: Forcing a dress code onto women (which Doctor didn't-he plainly
listed techniques for manipulating broken men, not stating a dress code) is
equivalent to forcing women to cover their faces insofar as the natural body
isn't accepted. In that sense, there is NO DIFFERENCE between forcing a
"witchy" dress code onto females, forcing them to cover their faces, and
cutting off their clitorises. That's not necessarily the same as telling
them that men can me manipulated if they (the females, not the men) wear
sexy shoes, which (hopefully) was what Doctor was doing.

I've seen the Sexy Shoes portrayed as a Mandate. I can't remember which
magazine it was in, but I'm pretty sure it was the Black Pun-Kin. Perhaps
I'm taking things out of context, because I've only seen one issue. However,
the exchange was that one reader wrote in asking if she HAD to dress in
high-heals. The answer given was YES, but not on New York sidewalks because
that would just kill your feet. I've also seen in print Anton LaVey on
record as saying, "If fascism makes men look like men and women look like
women, I'm all for it." I know of one person who dresses like a fascist on a
regular basis, and I think it makes him look just silly. (In his defense, I
will point out that he is the head of our Abuse department, which might
explain why it looks like overkill - also, the guy looks just ounces over
100 pounds. When I dress like a fascist, I'm trying to employ the Law of
Dominant Mass towards the Command to Look). I think what would make women
look like women is returning to a Minoan style of dress.

Ole had said: True. And any female has power over any male, but not in the
TSW sense. The TSW techniques draw on oppressed instincts while the kind of
power I'm talking about is a raw desire to procreate.

On the other hand, the Satanic Witch never has the Caveat that this is a
handbook for manipulating Christians. Having said that, it's easy to see WHY
one would NOT say that. Tani poured over my own "handbook" for manipulating
Christian Women and, given what I know about her, she confirmed that my
techniques would probably get just a funny look from someone like her. She
even said that the "human mind" as I portrayed it is the mind of a
schizophrenic. And my primary source, Richard Bandler, even said the same
thing in the book "Frogs into Princes." (I think). Anton LaVey has never, to
the best of my knowledge, come out and said outright that Satanists do not
think like WASPS (White Anglo-Saxon Protestants).

Kaiden Fox

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Re: Rocio's take on Fascism

I would very much like to help you with your article!!! Bully!!!! Or is that
Heil!! heh heh... I shall send you a short 3-5 page article in PDF format
concerning some aspect of fascism. It shall have full citations in APA
format as well. :) I will send this to your email address.

Yes it's true that many gays were killed in the Holocaust. For what? Well,
before the Third Reich went into full swing, there was a school in Germany
started by Walter Gropius called the Bauhaus. This was an art school that
founded many of the pedogological principles practiced today by art schools
all over the world. Art education was taught to be a hands on experience
rather than just didactic in scope. For a short time, even Hitler himself
worked with the architects Mies van der Rohe and LeCourbosier in planning a
public housing project for the new Germany. This idea fizzled out, and
Hitler became more enamored with the idea of returning Germany to some
mythic state depicted in stories such as Wagner's Ring epic. The Nazis
became increasingly hostile to the Bauhaus because they saw that political
climate as "decadent", "subversive," and leftist. There were a lot of
homosexuals attending the college, so naturally the Nazis keyed in on this
as proof that the Bauhaus was a haven for enemies of the Third Reich. The
school was shut down and converted into a training facility for SS officers.
Homosexuals represented liberal ideals of sexual libertinism, progress in
cultural forms in art and expression, and Marxist ideals of the commune
where people lived and worked together for a common end. That is why the
homosexual was so despised in Nazi Germany...Indeed many others were seen as
enemies-the Gypsies, Communists, the infirm, foreigners, occultists, and
others whose ideals did not embrace the notion of "Deustchland uber alles!"
The Third Reich era was a true cultural revolution...the tanks and mortars
were fueled by expression-art, rhetoric, culture and music.

If you are interested, I have a book entitled "The Art of the Third Reich"
in my private library. If you want I can write you a "book report" (ha ha) a
review...if you wish.

PS I would also like to explore Idi Amin as fascist, as well as the Asian
fascists I alluded to earlier.

Until later Lieber Stewart :) Rocio

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"Jederman ist sein eigener Führer!" (Everyone is his own leader!)

Here are a few brief observations and personal opinions which I feel should
be taken under consideration on the Satanism - Nazism issue:

I think it was High Priestess Barton who once wrote that getting hysterical
at the first sight of a swastika or similar nazi-oriented symbol is
unsatanically narrow-minded. I agree: On a ritualistic level it should be
"what ever gets you high" for a Satanist. I can, for instance, imagine that
a ritual which would include nazi-oriented symbols in order to be enormously
effective for a Satanist with a Jewish background: Either to produce
feelings of hatred and revenge (this would be beneficial in a destruction
ritual) or to produce feelings of submissiveness and being abused (this
would benefit a Satanist who wishes to recognize these sort of
counterproductive aspects in himself and get rid/make use of them).
Furthermore, I feel that this applies to other personal walks of life as
well: If one finds a symbol, be it Baphomet, Swastika, Coca Cola's trademark
or whatever, meaningful for himself - so be it.

Satanism isn't and it shouldn't be a politically committed movement: A
Satanist can find aspects which are analogous with his own, personal,
thoughts from any political ideology there is: Communism, Republican,
Conservatism.. This is up to what the individual feels best serves his/her
goals as a person and as a Satanist. This said, I must stress the fact that,
at least in my personal opinion, NONE of this in any way justify a Satanist
committing himself to some Neo-nazi-movement or to endorsing fascistic
ideology in his personal life. If he does, he isn't a Satanist - he's a nazi
and these DO exclude each other: Be that if so desired, a Satanist can
utilize aspects of whatever ideology he finds suiting for his satanic
endeavors, there are nevertheless some aspects in nazism, as well as in many
other political or non-political movements, which are contradictory to the
ideology of Satanism and it's principles set forth by Doctor LaVey and the
Church of Satan.

Even though I fully accept and endorse such terms as "Alien Elite" and
"Social Darwinist" which have been used to describe Satanists and their
ideology, I nevertheless strongly feel that this (satanic) type of
stratification and elitism is based on MERITOCRACY - which is not the case
when it comes to nazism. Nazi-mindset is based on "Aryan superiority" and
other ideals which advocate discrimination of individuals of certain ethnic
backgrounds regardless of the abilities and personal potential of these
individuals. This thought is best elaborated in Magister Peter Gilmore's
essay "Satanism: The Feared Religion" in which he concludes: "There are
elite individuals from all ethnic backgrounds, and they are embraced by
Satanism for the superior beings that they are - creating an uniquely
Satanic ethnic."

I think this about says it all: Nazism is a movement for mediocre masses who
have a need to feel superior, but who lack the ability to be it - it gives a
person a false feeling of being "elite" just by happening to born with a
certain skin-color. Satanism, on the other hand, embraces superior
individuals who have proven their worth in the ordeal of Life.

Nazis advocate the re-raising of "third Reich" so they could once more start
stuffing the "unworthy" to gas-chambers. Satanists declare that every person
should have the right and obligation to stand or fall on his own merits and
that both rewards (for ability) and punishments (for inability) should come
as natural causes of their actions - which would be happening if it were not
for the unnatural doctrines of "forgiveness and mercy" set forth by the
so-called white light-religions - not in an "artificial way" of passing
dictatorial judgements on dubious grounds. Any sensible person should be
able to see the huge difference and contradiction between these two
movements.

So to encapsulate my personal opinion: There is no need to over-react if
some Satanists find nazi-inclined symbols or even some aspects of their
ideology worth their time, but there indeed is a need for action from
Satanists if the (visible) line between Satanism and Nazism is being, either
intentionally or unintentionally, dimmed.

Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Führer?

Get real - Jederman ist sein eigener Führer!

Beast wishes,

Wooki

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Dear Stewart,

Satanist Fascists? Fascist Satanists? Hierarchies? Dictators? An "ideal?"

I'm a close friend of a COS person who showed me your letter. I belong to no
other Satanic organization against the COS. I come from Eastern Orthodox
(Russian Orthodox) heritage three generations ago. I also come from a
heritage two generations ago of Atheism and personal experience of
revolution against tyranny and religion. Both. I am formerly a Most Vicious
Devil in the "Evil Empire" and yes, we Demons actually dared to say "Fuck
God" and put this blasphemous book, "The Satanic Bible," in our own museum
of Atheism.

If I may be sarcastic and reduce your theory about Satanist Fascists to
absurdity:

Satan loved hierarchies. There is God, the Big Boss, then there are Nine
Choirs of Angels divided into Hierarchies. The First Hierarchy is: Seraphim,
Cherubim and Thrones. Then there is the Second Hierarchy: Dominions,
Principalities and Powers. And there is the Third Hierarchy: Virtues,
Archangels and Angels. And all of these have Orders of Rank within them.
Satan is a mere angel also known as Lucifer. Of course, when God had a son,
Nepotism ruled the day and Jesus Christ was put up next to God above the
Seraphim. As an Angel, Satan sings the praises of God: Zieg Heil, Gott Mit
Uns!

That is why Satan bows down to the Lord of Light, Jesus Christ. Heil Jesus.
It doesn't matter that, as Lucifer, Satan's Light shines the brightest; he
has to humble himself and submit to the pallid, dim light of Jesus Christ.
Heil Jesus.

Satan had a major fight with the Archangel Michael once, and Michael won and
set Satan straight. Heil Michael.

Exploitative bosses that give you nothing but ask for everything are very
Satanic and God is the Big Boss, and since the year 0 AD Jesus Christ has
been Number 2. Satan loves his Boss; he and the other Orders of Angels
helped to build the Throne and the Altar and actually did most of the work
building the entire Universe. Satan did all of this without being paid. God
also ordered all these Angels to bow down to the creation and sing praises
to it after they did all that work making it. And they all did it: Zieg
Heil, Gott Mit Uns.

God once sent Jesus Christ to be born into the world only to die for the bad
behavior of people. It didn't do any good so, in the end, Satan got the job
of being the best friend of all losers, asocial idiots, self-destructive
morons and assholes in general; in other words, Satan is the Patron Saint of
the Herd. It is also very Satanic to support everything that wants to
exterminate you and to provoke everything that might exterminate you. Zieg
Heil.

So remember to look up (not down) on the Hierarchy! Don't smash the
Hierarchy in a violent revolution, just submit to the Hierarchy like a good
little slave. Always say Zieg Heil, Gott Mit Uns. It's Satanic! You all
better do that, or else YOU will be kicked out of Heaven! Heil Satan!

Radu Dekanozov (Still rather rule in Hell by myself).

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Dear Stewart,

I'll write about Sexuality, Indulgence and Nazism

During the Weimar Republic in Germany, before the Nazis got into power, the
general climate was somewhat open-minded. Considering the time and location,
the people were relatively well in tune with their animal instincts. Many
carnal intellectual innovations took place. State repression of different
forms of sexuality was rare, and there existed vital sexual sub-cultures.
All this would change when the Nazis got into power.

One of the pre-Nazi innovations was the flourishing of sexology-the study of
human sexuality. Sexology of the period was personified in one Dr. Magnus
Hirschfeld (1868 - 1935), whose motto was "justice through knowledge" (in
other words "sociopolitical change through the 'truly occult'"?). Dr.
Hirschfeld founded the historical Institute for Sexual Research, first of
it's kind, in 1919, and published many pioneering studies on human
sexuality. Hirschfeld was very much like Kinsey decades later in USA, who
used methods developed by Hirschfeld. Both were persons who displayed, for
all to see, the undefiled wisdom of the carnal nature of human existence.

The Nazis saw the very same liberal innovative spirit of the Weimar Republic
as the cause for the fall of the German people. The Nazis hated and despised
Hirschfeld, his colleagues and their works. Not least because Hirschfeld was
also a gay rights activist, and the Nazis saw homosexuality as one of the
most sickening things plaguing the German people (despite the fact that a
notorious homosexual, Ernst Roehm, got them into power with his Storm
Troopers, most of whom were also gay). It's essential to realize that the
Nazis didn't hate homosexuality because of eugenic reasons. The main reason,
for the Nazis, was that homosexuality, in their eyes, represented the
indulgent spirit, the spirit of enjoyment, which they saw as corruptive and
the opposite to the Iron Will. Iron Will meant strength by the means of
abstinence and compulsion. The Nazis hated the homosexuals, because they
were "men with animal instincts." They considered the homosexuals to be
seducers, and "rigorous discipline and will power" was thought to be
necessary to be able to abstain from falling into indulgence with them. That
is the main reason why the Nazis fought against homosexuality-not some
eugenic issues. Indulgence was the arch enemy of the Nazis. They wanted to
destroy that which they felt attraction to.

This can not be overemphasized to a person of our times who is into Nazi
aesthetics. The Nazis were fighting against the carnal aspects of human life
in an attempt to return back to "Victorian" Christian values; back to the
times when even the legs of pianos had to be covered, so that nobody could
even accidentally come to think about something sexual. The Nazis were the
Taliban of their times. Men who hated joy. They had that mentality in their
hearts, and they created what similar cultures have created through the
times. For example the Nazis made laws in which even touching another man
would be considered criminal-compare that to the most sickening forms of the
Samurai culture, in which touching another person's weapon would be
considered to be a crime demanding capital punishment. A culture built on
compulsive behavioral norms, adoring abstinence. Hating the carnal nature
and the undefiled wisdom.

When the Nazis got into power in 1933, their first target for destruction
was the Institute for Sexual Research. It was "closed down" the 6th of June
1933, and the priceless scientific collections and works were "confiscated"
(burned at the Opera Square of Berlin). The terror of the 3rd Reich had
begun. Once again abstinence lead into burning books. And perhaps once again
it was fuelled by self-hate, Thanatos: Ernst Roehm, a long time friend of
Hitler and the head of the SA in 1933, was a homosexual.

Strength from joy!

Kari Nevala

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Stewart, I do believe this is the kind of "mentality" that you are speaking
of that is infecting the COS. Below is a statement made to a Catholic friend
of mine by a woman she knew for 36 years as a close friend. The woman said
this as her reasons for completely severing what was a long-term close
friendship:

New "Born Again" specific church member:

"I am going to completely sever any friendships or communication with those
former friends, acquaintances and even relatives who have refused to accept
Jesus as their Personal Savior and comply absolutely with the Written Word
of God. I have no contact at all with persons who are members churches that
are, in fact, the Synagogue of Satan, and that especially includes the
Catholic Church. I believe all of the things Pastor XXX has shown me are the
true words of Jesus Christ and not the distortions told to us by all other
Christian churches. I will continue to comply in every way I can to teach
the true word."

This person literally stopped talking to her own quite elderly mother and
father, not just to her Catholic friend.

Please compare this to something a member of the COS once said:

"Long since, I have completely severed any friendships or communication with
those former CoS members who have refused to comply with CoS regulations. I
have no contact at all with persons who are members of CoS enemy groups. I
honor ALL of the regulations set forth by the CoS officials, and I will
continue to comply in EVERY way I can. I do not debate with officials, and I
am obedient to them in EVERY way. I will always be at the service of the
Church of Satan. Whether or not this is "satanic," I couldn't give a wit!"

These statements would be enough to get both of these women on J. Edgar
Hoover's "suspect" list as being part of a cult, and at least on the part of
the COS member, SHE PERCEIVED it as such, which she is "obedient" to. The
Christian really believes in what she has done too. Both "believe." Both
have unwavering FAITH. Neither of these qualities is in the least bit
Satanic. But only one of these people thinks it is.

These behaviors have nothing to do with social systems per se or economics
at all. Many people who join cults are intelligent (in terms of school
smarts) and from the middle classes. Is this fascism? Well, in our society
this is called CULTISM - but what is Fascism? It's a BIGGER cult. It has the
same, identical dynamic and appeals to the same types of people.

Mag TJ


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Stewart,

From reading Mein Kampf, my impression was always that the Jews were not
viewed as a weaker race, but as a scheming, evil race, just as strong as the
Aryans in their own way, but skewed and maniacal, not possessing their own
culture and bent on dominating others. This is quite different from a weaker
race, no?

Julia

Dear Julia,

You make a valid point. Lets see, the idea of the Jews being an "Evil race"
is an old one, do you know what the Catholics were doing when all of this
were going on? Read the attached analysis of a modern and factual book
below:

Hitler's Pope documents sainthood candidate's Nazi collaboration Hitler's
Pope: The Secret History of Pius XII by John Cornwell New York: Viking,
1999, 430 pp.

This is a remarkable book on Eugenio Pacelli, who was Pope Pius XII from
1939 to 1958. Written by a Catholic scholar originally intending to defend
Pacelli, the book presents a Catholic insider view of Pacelli.

The pope is the top authority in the Catholic religion and by tradition he
has resided in Rome, Italy. Currently the place where he resides is called
the Vatican, a place that other countries treat as a tiny country into
itself. Cornwell, the author, has examined Vatican documents regarding
Pacelli at a time when the Catholic Church is considering naming him a
saint, in a process called beatification. Vatican documents generally stay
secret for 75 years; (p. 372) although the Vatican claims to have released a
complete collection in regard to World War II.

Cornwell concludes that Pacelli was "no monster," (p. viii) but he was
"Hitler's pope," an easy pawn to handle.(p. 297) Based on the details presen
ted by Cornwell, Pope Pius XII must be counted amongst the most evil men of
the twentieth century. -Aside from his role of perpetuating a religion that
is a diversion from scientific and ideological clarity about this world, he
supported a deliberate division of the human race based on a figment of the
imagination known as "God."

Yugoslavia and the Croats

Cornwell's material with the most contemporary flavor concerns the
bloodletting in ex-Yugoslavia. In the case of enemies of the Serbs, it was
Catholic Croat fascists who declared an independent Croatia and initiated
massacres of Serbs in the wake of Hitler's invasion of eastern Europe.
Cornwell fully admits the Catholic role and points out that the Pope
condoned the massacres of non-Catholics in the wake of Hitler's victories:
"Even by comparison with the recent bloodshed in Yugoslavia at the time of
this writing, Pavelic's onslaught against the Orthodox Serbs remains one of
the most appalling civilian massacres known to history."(p. 249)

In fact, the Croats had managed a rare feat-to be included by Hitler in his
idea of the Aryan race as Aryans.(p. 248) The Serbs, along with most peoples
in the world, were slated for extermination by Hitler-a fact increasingly
lost in capitalist propaganda seeking to whitewash racism and equate
Hitler's Nazism with communism and both as "totalitarianism." Hitler only
regarded the Jews as his most fit internationalist enemy and the most
convenient scapegoat for German unity purposes. There were only 2 million
Orthodox Christian Serbs, and the Croats led by Catholic priests(p. 254)
managed to kill 487,000 between 1941 and 1945 in addition to 27,000 Gypsies
and 30,000 out of 45,000 Jews. (p. 253)

The reason Pope Pius XII condoned the massacres by the Ustashe is that it
made it easier to spread Catholicism in the region. "Mass conversions" of
Orthodox Christian Serbs and massacres of those same Serbs became difficult
to separate, because the reasons for the two were the same. For this reason,
Pacelli held joyous greetings for Croatian police and young Catholic
fascists in Rome.(p. 260).

While it is well-known that the Jews suffered a holocaust, what the people
do not realize is that the Vatican had its own genocidal fascism to account
for all by itself-without tailing behind Hitler or Mussolini. The Serbs and
Gypsies were just two more peoples that faced genocide by fascists. As it
turns out, Pacelli also had a role in fanning the historical hatreds in the
Balkans that led to the genocide of World War II.

World War I

Of all the evil ruling class figures during the 20th century, Pacelli's
claim to infamy comes largely from the fact of having an important role to
play for so long. Before he became pope, he was the number two person in the
Catholic hierarchy, the Secretary of State. As a diplomat, in World War I,
Pacelli was involved in the most vexing European ethnic conflicts, most of
which remain unresolved today, thanks to Pacelli's type of politics.

As it turns out, Pacelli was there for the beginning of World War I in 1914.
Four days before the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand that started World
War I, Pacelli maneuvered a diplomatic deal with Serbia that embarrassed
Austria-Hungary.(p. 48) Pacelli had cut a deal with the Serbs to protect
Catholicism and allow the Pope more absolute authority over Catholics in
Serbia. His so-called "Serbian Concordat" was another straw piled on the
camel's proverbial back.

As the war went on, Pacelli also learned to fake his anti-militarism. None
other than the German Kaiser told him he should show concern for the troops
in World War I, because it often seemed to the troops that only socialists
and communists were concerned about their well-being!(p. 68)

Mussolini

While Pacelli's greatest evil came from working with Hitler, both Hitler and
Pacelli took their cues from Mussolini first. Mussolini came to power as a
fascist in Italy before Hitler and he also signed a treaty with the Pope
before Hitler. While Pacelli was the senior diplomat in the Vatican, Pope
Pius XI called Mussolini "'a man sent by Providence.'"(p. 114) Rather than
upbraid Pope Pius XI, Pacelli named himself in the same line.

We find it reprehensible that so many Christians today live in denial
regarding Christianity's role in propping up Hitler and Mussolini. The
Vatican's endorsement of Mussolini is especially damning. The Vatican went
so far as to dissolve a Catholic party and urge voters to support Mussolini
and his party!(p. 116)

As the one to break the ice in Europe, Mussolini bears much of the
responsibility for the fascist infection of all of Europe after World War I.
The Vatican in turn bears responsibility for Mussolini.

Hitler

Most dialectical materialist analysis of the rise to power of Hitler focuses
on the social-democrats and their influence in the communist ranks. The
original reason for this focus is that it used to be obvious that the
Catholics and other Christians were ready fodder for Hitler; in contrast,
the split in the working-class was much more interesting. It was often
thought that a united German working-class under proletarian leadership
could change world history decisively.

Now with capitalist media-induced amnesia, the youth grow up thinking that
Hitler was simply a "statesman." Hence, the trouble that Cornwell goes
through to prove that Catholics but not socialists supported Hitler is
important. Catholic Father Paul Collins pointed out that the version of
papal authority accepted was more strict than anything put forward by
communists or fascists.(p. 39)

From the point of view of dialectical materialism, it is obvious that
Christianity dulls the scientific sensibilities of the masses, because it
teaches them poor logic-"to argue from authority." No matter how well
respected the authority, a statement is not true because an authority says
so. Any argument along the lines that "God says so" is in fact "argument
from authority" and should not be applied to anything in the real world,
lest an elementary mistake in logic be made. This is not the same thing as
saying that people may not submit to authorities as anarchists are likely to
say. There may be good reasons to follow an authority. Logic only says that
the truth is independent of its speaker.

Aside from the countless German Christian leaders who named Hitler "Christ
reincarnated," Christianity prepared the masses for fascism by teaching
"argument from authority" in place of logic. Religious efforts to water down
scientific education also contribute to making the masses ready for fascist
leaders appealing to their emotions-especially anti-Semitism in the case of
Catholics.

Cornwell adds that Hitler was the perfect counterpart to Pacelli, because
Pacelli opposed democracy and needed an authoritarian leader to negotiate
with. Hitler was willing to impose a nation-wide deal that others had a hard
time negotiating with various local authorities and political
constituencies.

Pacelli had failed to obtain from Germans what he wanted for Catholic
schools. Hitler granted Catholic schools and recognition of papal authority
over all Catholic clergy in exchange for removing the Catholics from
politics. In practice, this meant that Hitler succeeded in paralyzing
possible Catholic opposition to himself. Every time the masses or lower
levels of the Church rose against Hitler, Pacelli was there to urge
reconciliation with Hitler until well into World War II.

As in the case of starting World War I, and helping Mussolini in power,
Pacelli was right there when Hitler needed a pivotal push to power. It is a
great irony of history and previously unknown to this reviewer that Pope
Pius XII made right-wing German Chancellor (1930-1932) Heinrich Bruning look
like a radical leftist. Catholic Bruning urged Pacelli not to make deals
with Hitler. Bruning's Catholic Center Party was one of the last possible
sources of opposition to Hitler.

Instead of opposing Hitler, the Catholic Center Party followed Pacelli's
advice and facilitated Hitler's rise to power. Crucially, it voted for
Hitler's so-called "Enablement Bill."(p. 135) Already by the time of March
1933, Hitler had succeeded in banning the communists and their elected
representatives. The social-democrats voted against Hitler's power-grab, but
the Catholic Center Party voted for it and dissolved itself. It would be
hard to think of a more timely yet evil single act in the 20th century.
Bruning rightly called the "Enablement Bill" "'the most monstrous resolution
ever demanded of a parliament.'"(p. 135) Unfortunately, Pacelli had his way,
not Bruning! Only 14 out of 76 Catholic delegates had the courage to oppose
Pacelli and side with Bruning, so the entire Catholic bloc voted for Hitler.

Four days after becoming pope in 1939, Pacelli issued a positive statement
to Hitler asking for reconciliation again. He also arranged for an
ostentatious birthday for Hitler's 50th on April 20th, 1939.(p. 209)

Seven months later in 1939, a right-wing plot involving the Pope arose in
Germany to kill Hitler. (p. 235) Thus far, historians have treated this plot
as legitimate and not a concoction of German Nazi counter-insurgency.
Eventually it's leaders did die in the attempt. It is one of the few proofs
that Pacelli was not completely a Hitlerite himself, merely a Nazi
collaborator. In the plot to kill Hitler, it was the role of Pacelli to
approach England and France to ask for good peace terms in exchange for the
rebels' killing of Hitler.

While Pacelli was thus willing to see Hitler assassinated in the late 1930s
or early 1940s, his own agenda still overlapped with much of the Nazi
agenda. He preferred Franco fascism to Hitler fascism. Franco in Spain was
also ardently authoritarian, but Franco believed his work was on behalf of
the Pope, while Hitler was more likely to encourage others to think he was
the messiah himself. Pacelli hoped for a Franco style fascism all across
Europe. Pacelli opposed both majority rule by bourgeois rules and communism.

The Jews

The single issue most scandalous to John Cornwell is how traditional
Catholic anti-Semitism played right into Hitler's program of genocide
against the Jews, what Cornwell calls "the greatest crime in human
history."(p. 293) Pacelli's admirers include Jews who credit him with saving
860,000 Jewish lives during the war, (p. 378) but Cornwell shows how
numerous stories regarding the pope's role in resisting Hitler's genocide
were simply false, an attempt to protect Pacelli's image. It is Cornwell's
efforts in the historical archives on this question that set much of history
straight.

The pope's negative role decreased as the war went on, but even at the very
end when German troops occupying Rome were afraid of Italian revolt, partly
because Mussolini had been sent packing, Pacelli did not manage to speak out
against the murder of over 1000 Roman Jews by a few determined SS troops.
Thanks to Stalin's leadership success of the Soviet Red Army, the situation
was so weak for the Nazis that Hitler had to concede that he did not have
the power to kidnap even the defenseless pope in a city occupied by Nazi
troops in late 1943. (p. 315)

Meanwhile the Nazi diplomats to the Vatican secretly turned against their
government and begged the pope to stop the massacre of Jews just by speaking
out against the demoralized and potentially heavily outnumbered SS. (pp.
302, 304) So it was that even sectors of the Nazi ruling class were
beginning to look good compared to Pacelli. Hence, even with Allied troops
advancing and the Italian people carrying out armed resistance and near the
boiling point against a losing Nazi army, Pacelli still did not take a
correct stance, and one reason was his ardent anti-communism (i.e., Atheism)
and fear of an Italian Revolution.

Rather, during most of World War II once England and France declared war on
Germany, Pacelli could be found agitating for "universal city" status for
Rome-by which he meant freedom from Allied bombardment by airplane. As the
leader of the world's half a billion Catholics, Pacelli was a provincialist
putting his locale first while taking weak stances on the fascist atrocities
inside Rome and around the world. Also under Pacelli's rule, the death of
Hitler found the Cardinal Archbishop of Berlin in mourning and ordering all
priests "'to hold a solemn Requiem in memory of the Fuehrer and all those
members of the Wehrmacht who have fallen in the struggle for our German
Fatherland, along with the sincerest prayers for Volk and Fatherland and for
the future of the Catholic Church in Germany.'"(p. 317)

Black (African) troops

While Pacelli had little to say about specific war atrocities when he had
the chance regarding the Jews, Gypsies and Serbs, he did speak out twice
against the use of Black troops as occupation forces. According to Pacelli,
Black troops are more likely to rape European women than other troops.

Hence, we see that Pacelli was willing to get into minute ethnic details
when it suited him. He specifically asked the USA not to allow any Blacks to
occupy Rome.(p. 95)

Conclusion

John Cornwell provides a good example of how to write an historical account
without resorting to airy ideological principles. He provides examples of
where Catholic resistance (to eugenics (p. 153), to euthanasia (p. 198) or
German atrocities in Italy) made a big difference and proved that Hitler was
not unstoppable. He also demonstrated from other periods of history what was
possible, what the masses should have expected the Pope to be able to do on
behalf of justice-since much of the argument concerning Pacelli is with
regard to just how much power he had to bring to bear in various situations.

"Hitler's Pope" is a well-organized book with a clear sense of moral logic
and direction that is increasingly lacking in the contemporary academic
world. It answers many of the questions that we should want answered about
Pope Pius XII. Perhaps more than any reactionary leader this century, Pope
Pius XII was at the right place at the right time doing the wrong thing.

End of Review.

Sincerely, Stewart

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

Stewart's commentary:.
Now we come to the end where it is necessary to evaluate these responses and
fill in the blanks. I am sure some of the points raised will hit home with
many readers, both those who are members of the CoS and those who are not.
Some of what you've read you probably already understood since history is
rife with examples of the affects of Fascism and it is fairly easy to see,
in those examples, just what kind of people Fascism appeals to.

Regardless of the differences between the "moral foundations" of those
Fascists in the past and the present Fascist infection, as I see it, they
share the same intentions. That is, to form an "All is One" union or
dictatorship at the highest levels in the organization that would trickle
down, via brainwashing, and a "toe the line or get out" party line to the
rank-and-file. The reader who is paying attention will note the similarity
in this doctrine and outlook to the early Christian doctrine of "Convert or
Die." The proponents of this Organizational Fascism cannot practice that
doctrine in full in the real world because those in the past that objected
to this tyranny bought our freedom from that fate with their blood. Were it
still a valid option, however, the vehemence of the Satanic Fascist faction
makes it fairly plain that it would be a method joyously utilized by them to
silence the opposition! "You better shut up!" "You better drop this
project." "You can leave if you don't like it." This doctrinal similarity
with the avowed enemies of the Satanic movement in the past, is a large
contributing factor to the feeling, on my part and on the part of many, that
these so-called Nazi Revisionist Satanists have worn out their welcome.

Some still pose the question of whether there is, indeed, a Fascist faction
in the CoS. What of stratification? Would that not be a definition of what
is going on within the organization?

It is an interesting question. I would ask the reader to keep the following
point in mind as he/she ponders the question of stratification: the goal of
Fascism is "sameness." In no way does "sameness" equate with stratification.

The members of this Fascist faction would have us believe that by belonging
to their faction they are demonstrating some kind of "personal power." In
their eyes, the identification with a political doctrine and people that
sought the elimination of a supposedly "weaker race" invests them with some
feeling of superiority, and they take this to be Satanic. Self-delusion is
never a Satanic value, and self-deluded they are. Those who posses the
"personal power" these would-be Fascists lust after, feel no need to adopt
postures designed to showcase said power; only the posers feel the need to
pose. This is easily proven by a simple survey of those who practiced
political Fascism in the past; it has never been a political movement of the
strong.

An interesting aside is that these people are idolizing a system of thought
and practice that would see them as its first vicitms. No genuine political
Fascist would "suffer a Satanist to live."

The political and real ideal of Satanism was set forth over 200 years ago
and is rooted in the concept of Freedom. Specific examples of those Freedoms
were built into the Constitution of the United States: freedom of speech,
religion, the press, and assembly and petition. Are we to accept any less
from an organization, specifically a Satanic one that supposedly holds the
Self sacred, than we demand from our government? I think not!

Two hundred years ago, a group of people dedicated to "Nature's god" looked
at the tyranny that they were forced to live with and decided that such
tyranny was no longer to be tolerated or accepted. They pledged themselves,
at the cost of "their lives, fortunes and sacred honor," to freedom from the
tyranny of the "Christian King of Great Britain." The government they formed
in the midst of Revolution was built on principles Satanists claim as their
own: Liberty, Equity and Unity. Liberty: Do as Thou Wilt. Equity: all have
an equal right to Liberty. Unity: those who practice the principles of
Liberty and Equity come together to preserve them, wherever and whenever
they are threatened. Again, the reader who is paying attention will note
that nowhere in that Satanic ideal will you find anything of the Fascist
ideal. Indeed, the two are anathema to each other. On an ironic note, it is
that very freedom and liberalism that the Fascist faction finds so
abhorrent, that allows the Satanic organization that they infect to exist!
"All religions are equal under the law. The State should not interfere."
Liberals say this.

It can be seen that the ideals of the Fascist have nothing in common with
the ideals of the Satanist, yet here we have a Fascist faction infecting a
Satanic organization. What is to be done? The members must either take back
the organization, or they must accept the fact that their organization has
been usurped and conform to the new ideology for conform these Fascists
surely try to make you do! Or they separate themselves and form a new
faction. Or they walk away from the public movement all together. The
question I put to the reader is this: which action is the correct action?


Only you can decide.

--
A word is not a crystal, transparent and unchanged; it is the skin of a
living thought, and may vary greatly in color and content according to the
circumstances and the time in which it is used.
- - - Oliver Wendell Holmes, opinion, Towne v. Eisner, January 7, 1918

SVsite

unread,
Aug 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/9/00
to
Well Wolf, looks like you owe me $10. Albeit, it was this raging bitch
that thinks this is my project. Apparently the raging black hole
doesn't realize that I was very reluctant to even answer the email you
sent to EVERYONE, and everyone knows you did this project, they knew it
before any of us knew it was going on. You posted it and told them
all. Even if I promised to put the finished result on a website, no
matter. By the way, Circe the moron, can be sued by Tim for posting
copyrighted material: HIS.

The raging bitch hates it that WolfAtHart has organized a future trip
to Mayan ruins. (No, I'm not going but a lot of others who were also
INVITED will go). The key word is INVITED. The raging bitch probably
hates it that you and your friend made a fantastic website. The raging
bitch hates it that I like to eat duck cause it tastes good. And in
the end, the raging black hole is really raging because SHE was not
invited to The Momentous, World Breaking News, Halloween Party hosted
by our very own Rev. Andre Schlesinger.

Since the Project One of Citizen Stewart can be viewed on his own
website, and others too, it's a chore to read it here. THIS following,
however, poses for much more interesting reading. After saying all
this, Rev. Andre Schlesinger trashed this raging bitch every which way
and out and everyone else in the COS and many out of it know she's a
raging bitch that flies off into tantrums. Yes Nancy, it's all about
me for you, isn't it? Was it always about me, Nancy? Why did you mail
me that pretty rug, Nancy? Was that about trying to suck up? Or is it
that it's all about ANY WOMAN in the COS? Rocio? Ygraine? Specter?
Szandors? Everyone else? Yeah, that's about right. But I was the
ONLY PERSON in the entire COS willing to give you the time of day.
WAS.

You will get over me, the same way you GOT OVER Lupo and Andre and the
other women. OH, do you want to suck all their cocks too now that they
posted rape threats against you? Or maybe Lupo is actualy right for
once about you WANTING to be raped and beaten up and thrown into the
garbage? Maybe.

Here: this is more interesting

From: "Hugh Despot" <hde...@databasix.con>
Subject: Re: Searching thru old files I found................

compliments of #SATANNET

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<html> <head> <meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252" http-
equiv="Content-Type"> <title></title> </head> <body> <XMP>

<p>Log file opened at: 3/5/00 12:28:10 AM 12:28 AM:
<Rev_Schlesinger> what do you want Nancy?..
12:28 AM: *** PING delay for CirceAbalone: 33 seconds 12:28 AM:
MacServ is a registered nick
12:29 AM: <<CirceAbalone>> I told you!
12:29 AM: <CirceAbalone> Masturbate for me.
12:29 AM: <CirceAbalone> I have pink lipstick and I'm on my knees at
your swollen cock.
12:30 AM: <CirceAbalone> pull my hair towards your pulsating tool!
12:31 AM: <CirceAbalone> I won't make eye contact unless further
instructed.
12:31 AM: <CirceAbalone> May I see you stroke it sir?
12:32 AM: <Rev_Schlesinger> oh brother..
12:32 AM: <CirceAbalone> Slap me really hard now and tell me not to
soeak untim spoken to. 12:32 AM: <CirceAbalone> speak
12:32 AM: <CirceAbalone> until
12:33 AM: <CirceAbalone> sorry you know how that spelling can get
forgive me master.
12:34 AM: <CirceAbalone> Scratch me really hard across my breasts as to
make them stop becoming erect with desire!
12:34 AM: <CirceAbalone> May I just look at it now sir?
12:35 AM: ***
CirceAbalon No such server
12:35 AM: *** <CirceAbalone> is ~Ci...@medi-max1-cs-39.dial.bright.net
(Circe Abalone) 12:35 AM: ***<CirceAbalone> is on IRC via server
sodre.nj.us.dal.net (www.ishell.net)
12:35 AM: *** <CirceAbalone> has been idle for 39 seconds
12:35 AM: *** <CirceAbalone> signed on at Sunday, March 5, 2000
12:20:06 AM
12:35 AM: <CirceAbalone> Thank you it is perky I see!
12:36 AM: <CirceAbalone> Don't hold back I won't hurt it I want to make
you hot for more! 12:37 AM: <CirceAbalone> My pussy is full of desire
however your cock is of the utmost importance now. Your Satanic Majesty!
12:38 AM: <CirceAbalone> I know your at least holding it tell me what
to do to make it feel really good?
12:38 AM: <CirceAbalone> Is there at least a small or large amount of
precum?
12:39 AM: <CirceAbalone> Thank you I just cum and my panties are soaked
must go change them for another session.
12:41 AM: *** <CirceAbalone> is
~Ci...@medi-max1-cs-39.dial.bright.net (Circe Abalone)
12:41 AM: *** <CirceAbalone> is on IRC via server sodre.nj.us.dal.net
(www.ishell.net) 12:41 AM: *** CirceAbalone has been idle for 1 minutes
and
31 seconds
12:41 AM: *** CirceAbalone signed on at Sunday, March 5, 2000 12:20:06
AM
12:43 AM: ***
CirceAbalone is ~Ci...@medi-max1-cs-39.dial.bright.net (Circe Abalone)
12:43
AM: ***
CirceAbalone is on IRC via server sodre.nj.us.dal.net (www.ishell.net)
12:43
AM: ***
CirceAbalone has been idle for 3 minutes and 44 seconds 12:43 AM: ***
CirceAbalone signed
on at Sunday, March 5, 2000 12:20:06 AM 12:49 AM: *** CirceAbalone is
~Ci...@medi-max1-cs-39.dial.bright.net (Circe Abalone) 12:49 AM: ***
CirceAbalone is on
channels #artbell 12:49 AM: *** CirceAbalone is on IRC via server
sodre.nj.us.dal.net
(www.ishell.net) 12:49 AM: *** CirceAbalone has been idle for 10
minutes and
5 seconds
12:49 AM: *** CirceAbalone signed on at Sunday, March 5, 2000 12:20:06
AM
12:52 AM: ***
CirceAbalone is ~Ci...@medi-max1-cs-39.dial.bright.net (Circe Abalone)
12:52
AM: ***
CirceAbalone is on channels #artbell 12:52 AM: *** CirceAbalone is on
IRC
via server
sodre.nj.us.dal.net (www.ishell.net) 12:52 AM: *** CirceAbalone has been
idle for 13
minutes and 6 seconds 12:52 AM: *** CirceAbalone signed on at Sunday,
March
5, 2000
12:20:06 AM Log file closed at: 3/5/00 12:57:30 AM </XMP></p>
</body>
</html>

Now you can go toodle loo somewhere. Take your medicine. Whatever.


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

SVsite

unread,
Aug 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/9/00
to

compliments of #SATANNET

CirceAbalone has been idle for 3 minutes and 44 seconds 12:43 AM: ***
CirceAbalone signed

Faust

unread,
Aug 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/9/00
to
First, I would like to begin by thanking Circe for posting
WolfAtHart's Project for all to read. (Though Wolf's permission would
have been preferable.) Many who may not otherwise have seen the
project are now able to peruse the opinions of those who chose to
involve themselves. (Remember, it was an open invitation.)

As you will see by reading it, those who participated put thought and
time into their responses. The entire project makes for a very
interesting case study into Satanic mentality.

What I do not, however, understand is what this has to do with Tani. I
can only speak for myself when I say this, but the opinion I gave was
my own. It was dependant on neither Tani nor anyone else. So I am
forced, by my own curiosity, to question your motivation for this
post.

You may be confusing the human trait of associating with like minded
individuals as something which it is not. You may disagree with this
assessment, so I await your response, if any.

Faust

"Shall I yield, thing of flame, to thee? Faust, and thine equal, I am
he!" - Faust, "The Tragedy of Faust" by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

On Wed, 9 Aug 2000 10:42:56 -0400, "MsCirce" <MsC...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

MsCirce

unread,
Aug 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/9/00
to
It wasn't exactly HIS project. All the emails and his questions and answers
were edited by Tani and freinds by passing everyones emails to one another
for editing puroposes.Also, Metadromos did all the work on the website.All
he did was tell him what kind of music to put on there really.Oh yea,your
right Mr. Faust I did forget to mention that website addy. It is
www.wolfathart.does.it That is why Tani said everyone would say she was
brainwashing Wolf in one of her emails.She was just using him to speak
thru.This was really all her doings.With Metdromos and Wolf seeming like the
ones that created all of it.All they did was follow her commands like good
soldiers.

--
A word is not a crystal, transparent and unchanged; it is the skin of a
living thought, and may vary greatly in color and content according to the
circumstances and the time in which it is used.
- - - Oliver Wendell Holmes, opinion, Towne v. Eisner, January 7, 1918

"Faust" <Fa...@itol.com> wrote in message
news:kl53ps85kdp6ilvpv...@4ax.com...

Faust

unread,
Aug 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/9/00
to
I resent your implication. I did not "follow order" and wasn't
"brainwashed" yet I gave wolf my two cents. (My opinions wasn't
exactly secret before then.).

Faust


On Wed, 9 Aug 2000 16:45:40 -0400, "MsCirce" <MsC...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>It wasn't exactly HIS project. All the emails and his questions and answers
>were edited by Tani and freinds by passing everyones emails to one another
>for editing puroposes.Also, Metadromos did all the work on the website.All
>he did was tell him what kind of music to put on there really.Oh yea,your
>right Mr. Faust I did forget to mention that website addy. It is
>www.wolfathart.does.it That is why Tani said everyone would say she was
>brainwashing Wolf in one of her emails.She was just using him to speak
>thru.This was really all her doings.With Metdromos and Wolf seeming like the
>ones that created all of it.All they did was follow her commands like good
>soldiers.

"Shall I yield, thing of flame, to thee? Faust, and thine equal, I am he!" - Faust, "The Tragedy of Faust" by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

MsCirce

unread,
Aug 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/9/00
to
Did I say YOU? NO!

--
A word is not a crystal, transparent and unchanged; it is the skin of a
living thought, and may vary greatly in color and content according to the
circumstances and the time in which it is used.
- - - Oliver Wendell Holmes, opinion, Towne v. Eisner, January 7, 1918
"Faust" <Fa...@itol.com> wrote in message

news:i5i3pss673cf1t6nf...@4ax.com...


> I resent your implication. I did not "follow order" and wasn't
> "brainwashed" yet I gave wolf my two cents. (My opinions wasn't
> exactly secret before then.).
>
> Faust
>
>
> On Wed, 9 Aug 2000 16:45:40 -0400, "MsCirce" <MsC...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>

> >It wasn't exactly HIS project. All the emails and his questions and
answers
> >were edited by Tani and freinds by passing everyones emails to one
another
> >for editing puroposes.Also, Metadromos did all the work on the
website.All
> >he did was tell him what kind of music to put on there really.Oh yea,your
> >right Mr. Faust I did forget to mention that website addy. It is
> >www.wolfathart.does.it That is why Tani said everyone would say she was
> >brainwashing Wolf in one of her emails.She was just using him to speak
> >thru.This was really all her doings.With Metdromos and Wolf seeming like
the
> >ones that created all of it.All they did was follow her commands like
good
> >soldiers.
>

MsCirce

unread,
Aug 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/9/00
to
My, My, This sure is some post! Sounds like someone is trying to redirect
attentions to old worn out subjects.Could that be because she maybe doesn't
want any attention drawn to the immediate present situation?? The one that
she is creating thru young boys and her own little clique to do her bidding?
The one that she so told me about as far as turning the CoS inside out from
the top to the bottom? One must come to their own conclusions here.I already
have. :) Maybe the FBI might just be interested in some of her emails too?
One never knows!

Toodles

SVsite <tanija...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8msqe9$h17$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

SVsite

unread,
Aug 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/10/00
to
OH, this is rich. The Raging Bitch copies OneDarkness's sign
off "toodles" eh?

Your entire rage, all of it, every single rage you have had here with
your SYBIL multiple personalities, is ONLY AND EXCLUSIVELY about Andre
P. Schlesinger, Rev. COS, GM MIB Grotto. Your (YOU WISH) lord and
master.

OH, you take after that lunatic christian fundie fanatic bitch of a
mother you had. You think I have "influence over young boys" now? You
SICK twisted christian prude, you SICK demented hag. You have NO
CONCEPTION of even friendship: you never had it. NEVER. And you never
will.

You THIEF, you THIEF OF JOY AND FUN. YOU DESTROYER OF LIFE. You'd ROB
the artist of his own creation. YOU BARREN creature! You are a BARREN
HOLE of a woman, a useless barren wasteland of rage and hate for
anything that is alive and happy. YOU HATE like the Christians hated
anyone with joy and laughter. YOU HATE with True Evil: that which
NEVER did a thing to you. You hate life, fun, joy, jollyness and
creativity. YOU HATE IT ALL.

You had NOTHING to contribute to the GROWN MAN'S project. Repeat:
GROWN MAN. That GROWN MAN is a Martial Artist that could wipe you off
the planet with ONE KICK. One SMASH to the head. That GROWN MAN is a
warrior. BARREN WOMAN. You have only the most VILE, PERNICIOUS and
EVIL thoughts in your twisted sick head. NO: this is not because you
are a god damned psychotic on thorazine. This is because you are a
SEWER, a cesspool of rage for anything that is happy. THAT IS YOU.

YOUR parole officer will see EVERYTHING you have ever written.
ESPECIALLY the entire story of how you STOLE a diamond ring. You are
BANNED from every worthwhile channel due to your own SICK, twisted
paranoid rages. You are SO fucking vile that I'm SHOCKED by it.
SHOCKED. It takes a shitload of something to shock me. YOU DID IT.

YOU are on your way OUT of the cos if your "LOVE OF YOUR HEART" has any
say in the matter. And now you have NO defenders to plead your sorry
fucking case. NONE.

I have done NOTHING TO the cos except what PEGGY NADRAMIA asked me to
do: GET PROOF of something. GET PROOF. THAT IS ALL. You STUPID
fucking moron, you kept trying to find out what it was about. YOU
MORON. You are so out of the loop because you are not even CONSIDERED
COS. I wouldn't even ASK YOU what happened to you (for Peggy) because
ANYTHING you said, even IF you could prove it, was rendered useless:
BECAUSE IT CAME FROM YOU. THE SPURNED WOMAN. You are an enemy of LIFE,
not just of Satanism. You are the enemy of JOY and FUN. You are a
THIEF of creativity which you utterly lack.

This is ALL you are capable of truly creating: THIS, these logs. And
oh yeah, how you STOLE a diamond ring. How you were a whore at the age
of 12. How your mother was a raging insane lunatic that threw
television sets out the window because "rated G" shows showed too much
flesh. How you are gonna write a book (BULLSHIT). Or your STUPID
CUNTry music posts that everyone is glad they'll never see again. Or
the Walmart story which got in the way of what Wooki and Bingo was
TRYING to talk about. WASTE PRODUCT - barren woman.

This is not the past. This is the very present, it is every day, it
eats at the core of your being. BARREN WOMAN.

> > 12:35 AM: *** <CirceAbalone> is ~Circe@medi-max1-cs-

SVsite

unread,
Aug 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/10/00
to
If you, you uncreative, barren BITCH, had bothered to write him a
response, you'd have seen your email in there WORD FOR WORD. Nothing
changed except misspelled words. Word for word.

This was HIS IDEA during the time he was a full SCS member. I was not
the first person to respond to it. Obviously.

He received html, .doc, .txt. He dcc'd the file and it was MONSTROUSLY
huge, took over 1 hours to come in. It was a mess. Nothing was
formatted correctly and the emails had the lines either super short or
all broken up. There were paragraphs at the ends of every line. Some
lines were short, some long and broken up.

All I did was put paragraphs and lines BETWEEN emails, fix the lines so
they'd come out right, spell check it and grammar check it. That's
IT. Where there was > mark like on email from another person, I merely
wrote "Ole Said this" or "Stewart said this." That is ALL I did.

Rocio's email is in there. Want to ask HER if it's different? How
about Ole's? Smokes? heh. YOU FUCKING LIAR.

I AM a writer and an editor. When I write ANYTHING, no matter how
small a part, I put my name as CO-AUTHOR on it. I sure the hell DO
take credit for what I WRITE. Editing format in MS word is not writing
you STUPID BITCH.

Radu can write fine if he takes his time. Unlike you who can't even
speak ONE language right, he can speak THREE: English, German and
Russian. Calling him a drunken person is SLANDER again. A Federal
offence across state lines when dealing with a person in Florida.

KEEP GOING. You really DO want to be in jail again where you feel MOST
comfortable. Right? You are one sick, twisted, paranoid bitch.

You have justly earned my ETERNAL HATRED - and I'm sure you have no
idea what that is. You twist and distort. So how can it be POSSIBLE
to believe a word you said against Andre when everything you say now is
a TOTAL LIE. I brainwash no one - and I find it amusing that anyone
thinks I do. HOW? WITH DRUGS? You FUCKING moron. How does it feel
to be you: barren, friendless, hated, mocked, despised, unloved even
by your OWN MOTHER? Childless (thank the gods). And SPURNED by the
man you are "crazy about."

You had the same OPEN INVITE to respond to his project - he posted it
on alt.satanism. Sure we looked at each others replied: WOLF POSTED
THE FUCKING THING early on before it was all done. MORON.

In article <_rjk5.2581$yq6.1...@cletus.bright.net>,


"MsCirce" <MsC...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> It wasn't exactly HIS project. All the emails and his questions and
answers
> were edited by Tani and freinds by passing everyones emails to one
another
> for editing puroposes.Also, Metadromos did all the work on the
website.All
> he did was tell him what kind of music to put on there really.Oh
yea,your
> right Mr. Faust I did forget to mention that website addy. It is
> www.wolfathart.does.it That is why Tani said everyone would say she
was
> brainwashing Wolf in one of her emails.She was just using him to speak
> thru.This was really all her doings.With Metdromos and Wolf seeming
like the
> ones that created all of it.All they did was follow her commands like
good
> soldiers.
>

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

MsCirce

unread,
Aug 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/10/00
to
I'm laughing so hard I'm crying!!!!!!!! STOP!

BTW! Stealing isn't a crime unless you get caught dumb fuck!

"SVsite" <tanija...@my-deja.com> wrote in message

news:8mtmah$4a7$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

SVsite

unread,
Aug 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/10/00
to
NO ONE did, you fuckng lying barren destroyer of life. You poisoner of
fun. NO ONE DID.

Soldiers my ass. YOU have me confused with someone else. JAIL BITCH.


In article <TVkk5.2587$yq6.1...@cletus.bright.net>,


"MsCirce" <MsC...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Did I say YOU? NO!
>

> --
> A word is not a crystal, transparent and unchanged; it is the skin of
a
> living thought, and may vary greatly in color and content according
to the
> circumstances and the time in which it is used.
> - - - Oliver Wendell Holmes, opinion, Towne v. Eisner, January 7, 1918
> "Faust" <Fa...@itol.com> wrote in message

> news:i5i3pss673cf1t6nf...@4ax.com...
> > I resent your implication. I did not "follow order" and wasn't
> > "brainwashed" yet I gave wolf my two cents. (My opinions wasn't
> > exactly secret before then.).
> >
> > Faust
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 9 Aug 2000 16:45:40 -0400, "MsCirce" <MsC...@hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >

> > >It wasn't exactly HIS project. All the emails and his questions and
> answers
> > >were edited by Tani and freinds by passing everyones emails to one
> another
> > >for editing puroposes.Also, Metadromos did all the work on the
> website.All
> > >he did was tell him what kind of music to put on there really.Oh
yea,your
> > >right Mr. Faust I did forget to mention that website addy. It is
> > >www.wolfathart.does.it That is why Tani said everyone would say
she was
> > >brainwashing Wolf in one of her emails.She was just using him to
speak
> > >thru.This was really all her doings.With Metdromos and Wolf
seeming like
> the
> > >ones that created all of it.All they did was follow her commands
like
> good
> > >soldiers.
> >

> > "Shall I yield, thing of flame, to thee? Faust, and thine equal, I
am
> he!" - Faust, "The Tragedy of Faust" by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
>
>

--
Hail #satanmuse the Official Chatroom of Rev. HrVad's C.O.S. Dark
Doctrine Site!
http://www.apodion.com/vad/
And for an Unusual Satanic Site check out
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/


"May the Dark Forces within and without you bring you increase."
Dr. Anton Szandor LaVey

Kari Nevala

unread,
Aug 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/10/00
to
"MsCirce" <MsC...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> It wasn't exactly HIS project.

> She was just using him to speak thru. This was really all her

> doings. All they did was follow her commands like good
> soldiers.

MsCirce, I wasn't asked to write about any certain thing. I
was just asked to write my opinion and what I knew about the
3rd Reich. I asked if she had some special interests in Wolf's
project, and she made it clear that she did not -- it was and
is Wolf's project. I saw this same thing being told to others
as well. Didn't you see this on #satanmuse?

As you know (and as can be seen from the Project itself), there
were attempts to find opposing views, so talk about using Wolf's
Project to speak through some certain view (by anyone) is simply
not true. If certain ideas dominate the Project, it is most of
all because certain people weren't willing to give their ideas,
even when repeatedly asked to. You know this.

As far as I know, a number of people helped Wolf to check grammar,
put it into HTML etc. At least they did not change any ideas in
what I wrote. I doubt they changed what other people wrote either.

If your real problem is Tani, then please flame her. Don't drag
others into it. Wolf did nice work, and I find it sad to see that
his work is the (mis)target of your agony.


Kari Nevala

MsCirce

unread,
Aug 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/10/00
to
Those straws are getting shorter and shorter! How many times do you have to
repeatedly post the same old fake logs! Moron! Quit trying to insult
everyone's intelligence! Your only proving to everyone that I'm telling it
like it is!


"SVsite" <tanija...@my-deja.com> wrote in message

news:8mtmah$4a7$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

MsCirce

unread,
Aug 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/10/00
to
Using the same old straws in every post only proves your desperation! Bitch!


"SVsite" <tanija...@my-deja.com> wrote in message

news:8msqn6$h2h$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

MsCirce

unread,
Aug 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/10/00
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"MsCirce" <Ci...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Trtk5.2618$yq6.1...@cletus.bright.net...

Or your STUPID


> > CUNTry music posts that everyone is glad they'll never see again.

How fuckin' dare you slam the late Tammy Wynette! Not to mention many other
country and western and folk artists!You old haggy harlot! You old burnt out
beach bunnnie! You old hippie left over from the 70's! Fuck off! You
couldn't even measure up to Tammy Wynette if you could hum a few bars!Your
just jealous of anyone that has ever accomplished something more than chat
and posting ability! Dumb Twat!


Or
> > the Walmart story which got in the way of what Wooki and Bingo was
> > TRYING to talk about. WASTE PRODUCT - barren woman.

Two words! IGNORE OPTION!

SVsite

unread,
Aug 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/10/00
to
EVERYTHING including life itself, is the mistarget of her agony. And
her agony is worse than Dante's visions of hell.

In fact, it is clear now that each post gives her JOY. She immediately
posts to it. She loved it! Yet she loves absolutely nothing, including
her sorry, barren self.

In article <8mtqt2$7e2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
Kari Nevala <kari_...@my-deja.com> wrote:

I find it sad to see that
> his work is the (mis)target of your agony.
>
> Kari Nevala
>

> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
>

--


Hail #satanmuse the Official Chatroom of Rev. HrVad's C.O.S. Dark
Doctrine Site!
http://www.apodion.com/vad/
And for an Unusual Satanic Site check out
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/


"May the Dark Forces within and without you bring you increase."
Dr. Anton Szandor LaVey

MsCirce

unread,
Aug 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/10/00
to
Not true! Wolf sat in #satanmuse and all he did was LOL! he he! heh! Just
giggle all the time! Nar did all of that website design and yes Tani did
edit everything! She did word the questions but not in original content! And
she responded more than anyone else.So as far as I'm concerned it is her
work.Go to the message board and look at Wolf's posts. Hell, he can't even
use proper english.He'll probably delete it though.I don't care though cause
I knew all along it was Tani's big production more than anything else.And it
was a bore to say the least.She just likes to stir shit up between
everyone.I don't care about that now either cause she is history to me.I am
also going to fax her threats in her posts to her local law enforcement,and
am also going to fax her radical communists statements to the FBI. She could
have links to terroristic groups,one never knows.I know she accused Lupo of
it!


"Kari Nevala" <kari_...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8mtqt2$7e2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...


> "MsCirce" <MsC...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > It wasn't exactly HIS project.

> > She was just using him to speak thru. This was really all her

> > doings. All they did was follow her commands like good
> > soldiers.
>


> MsCirce, I wasn't asked to write about any certain thing. I
> was just asked to write my opinion and what I knew about the
> 3rd Reich. I asked if she had some special interests in Wolf's
> project, and she made it clear that she did not -- it was and
> is Wolf's project. I saw this same thing being told to others
> as well. Didn't you see this on #satanmuse?
>
> As you know (and as can be seen from the Project itself), there
> were attempts to find opposing views, so talk about using Wolf's
> Project to speak through some certain view (by anyone) is simply
> not true. If certain ideas dominate the Project, it is most of
> all because certain people weren't willing to give their ideas,
> even when repeatedly asked to. You know this.
>
> As far as I know, a number of people helped Wolf to check grammar,
> put it into HTML etc. At least they did not change any ideas in
> what I wrote. I doubt they changed what other people wrote either.
>
> If your real problem is Tani, then please flame her. Don't drag

> others into it. Wolf did nice work, and I find it sad to see that

Wolf At Hart

unread,
Aug 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/10/00
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Not true! Wolf sat in #satanmuse and all he did was LOL! he he!
heh! Just giggle all the time!

I was laughing at you fooling everybody into liking your dim-
witted ass, you see I’ve never liked you: Anyone who knows me
knows this. Ask Tani, ask Nar ask anyone of my good friends. Of
course, your accusation is that all I ever do, in my spare time
is go “LOL” and “Hehehe” of course if you had been paying
attention (instead of playing with yourself) you might have
noticed I did talk to the people that I do like (of course, this
isn’t counting you, moron). I regret having ever heard your
scratchy Beavis and Butt-head sounding voice in my chat room,
rest assured, I will confirm with Key Nine Productions to change
the voice/text chat format into something I can ban you off of,
as you do not deserve our services, you’ve managed to descend to
a status where nobody here really cares about you, and the one
person did ( Tani Jantsang ) no longer does. Now, all you have
left is Lard Egan: Well-known enemy of the Church of Satan. You
Circe, are an enemy of the Church of Satan, if Rev. Andre
Schlesinger was right about anything, he was right about you. So
go ahead and keep thinking to yourself “LOL” and “hehehe” is all
I have to say, keep your spiritual pipe dreams to yourself, and
when me and Nar air our radio show, we’ll make an even bigger
joke out of you then you already are, and trust me, you are a
joke: A bad joke. So let it sink in Nancy, your not fooling
anyone but yourself.


Nar did all of that website design and yes Tani did edit
everything!


Nar, who is Nar? Oh, you mean Key Nine Productions, yes, they
did. Tani helped out with Project One, she had initially edited
some content on it, she didn’t write anything for anybody except
herself. You truly are a moron who did not contribute anything
to it, and now that you’ve fucked with me, you’ll go down in
history as the biggest moron that ever stalked the Satanic
Movement. Feel good? Get used to it, shit for brains.


She did word the questions but not in original content! And she
responded more than anyone else.So as far as I'm concerned it is
her work.

Do not concern yourself with something you need not subject
yourself to, and that something is my (Key word here, MY)
Project. Now, this may, may not come as a surprise to you, but
I’m intentionally going to write a very long counter essay to
the Project. You question who it really belongs to, it belongs
to the Satanic Movement as something productive that came from
MY mind, and when it’s all said and done, that how it will be
remembered, don’t you wish you could be as productive as me?
Don’t you wish that you and a group of Satanists go to the Mayan
Temples? Don’t you just wish you had something better to do with
your time then make bogus accusations on me and your other
enemies (Most of whom are far more productive then you, slime.)


Go to the message board and look at Wolf's posts. Hell, he can't
even use proper english.He'll probably delete it though.


How about this: Everyone go see for themselves. No, wait; she’ll
probably end up cutting and pasting my message board too, let me
do it for you.

Thanks a lot, Pad Foot. You see, I am, at the moment training in
TaeKwonDo, incidently without an instructor, but with all the
videos and manuals as I bought them when I was with my dojang
before it moved.

At the same time I am really studying Ninjutsu and taking some
serious interest in taking some of that when I get the chance,
there's this school in California, where you pay for a whole
years training, when you get out your a certified instructor.
But, that doesn't automaticly make me "good" of course, I see a
real long hard road ahead, perhaps even away from all this
technology and so forth, time to actually learn these things
instead of talking about this and that. Good? Bad? Well, rest
assured wherever I am I will continue to write for this web
site...

-WolfAtHart


That’s bad English, since when? It makes a whole hell of a lot
more sense then your incoherent psycho drivel; of course you
have the ingenuity of a crack head, you’ll do anything for a
hit. Nobody trusts crack heads Circe, and nobody trusts you.


I don't care though cause I knew all along it was Tani's big


production more than anything else.And it was a bore to say the
least.She just likes to stir shit up between everyone.


Actually it is ours, I and Key 9 productions work featured on
the web site, Project One is part of it. It was a bore to you
because it doesn’t concern non-Satanists such as yourself; it
concerns the Satanic Movement as a whole. The truth is, I
wouldn’t have let you contribute to it if you had asked, would
have begged: Because that is bad publicity. You not liking me is
a good publicity, because you

I don't care about that now either cause she is history to me.I
am also going to fax her threats in her posts to her local law
enforcement,and am also going to fax her radical communists
statements to the FBI. She could have links to terroristic
groups,one never knows.I know she accused Lupo of it!

That’s ok, I’m gathering up your copy-right infringements and
giving them to a lawyer.


Wolf At Hart

Timothy Stewart

http://wolfathart.does.it

-----------------------------------------------------------

Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
Up to 100 minutes free!
http://www.keen.com


Valinda

unread,
Aug 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/10/00
to
MsCirce,

WolfAtHart tends to talk more in PMs not to mention working on other
things! Like webpages! Ever think it was possible that what you said
never lead to anything he wished to respond too? I don't care
what "side" anyone claims anyone is on, but the assumptions you are
making MsCirce are all wrong. What I don't understand is why you
decided to attack Tani anyways? Trying to gain praise from someone, or
just plain jealous?

I couldn't help but speak up seems how I watched this unfold.
WolfAtHart had the idea for this website a long time ago, I might even
have known about it even before Tani knew. As for her changing the
discussion that was sent out over emails, what would she accomplish by
doing that? Think about it, no one that wrote in that email has come
forward and said that their writings had been changed.

Were is your proof? If you are going to make accusations at least have
some kind of proof. Tani has friends. What is wrong with that? Call
them soldiers? MsCirce are your friends your soldiers, is this why you
call them so? Now don't start calling me one of Tani's soldiers just
because I disagree with you, I don't take sides. I also don't care who
hates who. If my best friend hates someone, I don't hate them also. I
prefer individual relationships, and no I don't hate you yet Nancy.

Don't start calling me names agian like you use too. Just because you
disagree with someone on something doesn't mean you have to
start "trash talking". Calling someone "stupid whore" does not show
your intelligence. When you do this it makes me view you as a school
child who is upset about his/her pencil brakeing and is blameing it on
the person sitting next to them.

Sincerely,
-=Valinda~Kay~Moats=-
I am, who I am, nothing more, nothing less.
(pity the fool who under estimates an opponent)
no pity here.. no real fear..

In article <sFuk5.2631$yq6.1...@cletus.bright.net>,


"MsCirce" <Ci...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Not true! Wolf sat in #satanmuse and all he did was LOL! he he! heh!
Just

> giggle all the time! Nar did all of that website design and yes Tani
did
> edit everything! She did word the questions but not in original


content! And
> she responded more than anyone else.So as far as I'm concerned it is
her

> work.Go to the message board and look at Wolf's posts. Hell, he can't
even
> use proper english.He'll probably delete it though.I don't care


though cause
> I knew all along it was Tani's big production more than anything
else.And it
> was a bore to say the least.She just likes to stir shit up between

> everyone.I don't care about that now either cause she is history to


me.I am
> also going to fax her threats in her posts to her local law
enforcement,and
> am also going to fax her radical communists statements to the FBI.
She could
> have links to terroristic groups,one never knows.I know she accused
Lupo of
> it!
>

> "Kari Nevala" <kari_...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:8mtqt2$7e2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > "MsCirce" <MsC...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >

> > > It wasn't exactly HIS project.

> > > She was just using him to speak thru. This was really all her

> > > doings. All they did was follow her commands like good
> > > soldiers.
> >

Faust

unread,
Aug 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/10/00
to
Actually, you did. I am part of "all the email." You questioned MY
integrity.

On Wed, 9 Aug 2000 18:26:20 -0400, "MsCirce" <MsC...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Did I say YOU? NO!

"Shall I yield, thing of flame, to thee? Faust, and thine equal, I am he!" - Faust, "The Tragedy of Faust" by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Faust

unread,
Aug 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/10/00
to
Again, actually stealing is a crime - caught or not. If it wasn't,
there would be no risk of being caught because no one would be looking
for you.


On thurs, 10 Aug 2000 04:08:29 -0400, "MsCirce" <Ci...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

"Shall I yield, thing of flame, to thee? Faust, and thine equal, I am he!" - Faust, "The Tragedy of Faust" by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

MsCirce

unread,
Aug 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/10/00
to
Woo! Big words comin' from such a young boy! I don't have to ask anyone
anything sweetie! Psst....I already knew! :)
"Wolf At Hart" <mrtimothyste...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote in
message news:061cfa88...@usw-ex0101-006.remarq.com...

MsCirce

unread,
Aug 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/10/00
to
Who are you?

"Valinda" <val...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8mu85i$g8l$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

> > Not true! Wolf sat in #satanmuse and all he did was LOL! he he! heh!
> Just

> > giggle all the time! Nar did all of that website design and yes Tani
> did
> > edit everything! She did word the questions but not in original


> content! And
> > she responded more than anyone else.So as far as I'm concerned it is
> her

> > work.Go to the message board and look at Wolf's posts. Hell, he can't
> even
> > use proper english.He'll probably delete it though.I don't care


> though cause
> > I knew all along it was Tani's big production more than anything
> else.And it
> > was a bore to say the least.She just likes to stir shit up between

> > everyone.I don't care about that now either cause she is history to


> me.I am
> > also going to fax her threats in her posts to her local law
> enforcement,and
> > am also going to fax her radical communists statements to the FBI.
> She could
> > have links to terroristic groups,one never knows.I know she accused
> Lupo of
> > it!
> >

> > "Kari Nevala" <kari_...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> > news:8mtqt2$7e2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > > "MsCirce" <MsC...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >

> > > > It wasn't exactly HIS project.

> > > > She was just using him to speak thru. This was really all her

> > > > doings. All they did was follow her commands like good
> > > > soldiers.
> > >


> > > MsCirce, I wasn't asked to write about any certain thing. I
> > > was just asked to write my opinion and what I knew about the
> > > 3rd Reich. I asked if she had some special interests in Wolf's
> > > project, and she made it clear that she did not -- it was and
> > > is Wolf's project. I saw this same thing being told to others
> > > as well. Didn't you see this on #satanmuse?
> > >
> > > As you know (and as can be seen from the Project itself), there
> > > were attempts to find opposing views, so talk about using Wolf's
> > > Project to speak through some certain view (by anyone) is simply
> > > not true. If certain ideas dominate the Project, it is most of
> > > all because certain people weren't willing to give their ideas,
> > > even when repeatedly asked to. You know this.
> > >
> > > As far as I know, a number of people helped Wolf to check grammar,
> > > put it into HTML etc. At least they did not change any ideas in
> > > what I wrote. I doubt they changed what other people wrote either.
> > >
> > > If your real problem is Tani, then please flame her. Don't drag
> > > others into it. Wolf did nice work, and I find it sad to see that
> > > his work is the (mis)target of your agony.
> > >
> > >
> > > Kari Nevala
> > >
> > >

Faust

unread,
Aug 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/10/00
to
That is the lovely Valinda!

On Thu, 10 Aug 2000 11:26:28 -0400, "MsCirce" <Ci...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>> > > > It wasn't exactly HIS project.

>> > > > She was just using him to speak thru. This was really all her

>> > > > doings. All they did was follow her commands like good
>> > > > soldiers.
>> > >


>> > > MsCirce, I wasn't asked to write about any certain thing. I
>> > > was just asked to write my opinion and what I knew about the
>> > > 3rd Reich. I asked if she had some special interests in Wolf's
>> > > project, and she made it clear that she did not -- it was and
>> > > is Wolf's project. I saw this same thing being told to others
>> > > as well. Didn't you see this on #satanmuse?
>> > >
>> > > As you know (and as can be seen from the Project itself), there
>> > > were attempts to find opposing views, so talk about using Wolf's
>> > > Project to speak through some certain view (by anyone) is simply
>> > > not true. If certain ideas dominate the Project, it is most of
>> > > all because certain people weren't willing to give their ideas,
>> > > even when repeatedly asked to. You know this.
>> > >
>> > > As far as I know, a number of people helped Wolf to check grammar,
>> > > put it into HTML etc. At least they did not change any ideas in
>> > > what I wrote. I doubt they changed what other people wrote either.
>> > >
>> > > If your real problem is Tani, then please flame her. Don't drag
>> > > others into it. Wolf did nice work, and I find it sad to see that
>> > > his work is the (mis)target of your agony.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Kari Nevala
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>> > > Before you buy.
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>> Before you buy.
>

"Shall I yield, thing of flame, to thee? Faust, and thine equal, I am he!" - Faust, "The Tragedy of Faust" by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Metadromos

unread,
Aug 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/10/00
to
Public Notice.
To the person posting under the name MsCirce in this thread (headers and IPs
have been logged):
You are HEREBY given notice to cease and desist reproducing the Copyrighted
work known as "Project 1".
If you fail to comply IMMEDIATELY with this notice, we will not hesitate to
claim Copyright infringement.

Sec. 201. Ownership of copyright

(a) Initial Ownership. - Copyright in a work protected under this title
vests initially in the author or authors of the work. The authors of a joint
work are coowners of copyright in the work.
(b) Works Made for Hire. - In the case of a work made for hire, the employer
or other person for whom the work was prepared is considered the author for
purposes of this title, and, unless the parties have expressly agreed
otherwise in a written instrument signed by them, owns all of the rights
comprised in the copyright.
(c) Contributions to Collective Works. - Copyright in each separate
contribution to a collective work is distinct from copyright in the
collective work as a whole, and vests initially in the author of the
contribution. In the absence of an express transfer of the copyright or of
any rights under it, the owner of copyright in the collective work is
presumed to have acquired only the privilege of reproducing and distributing
the contribution as part of that particular collective work, any revision of
that collective work, and any later collective work in the same series.

WHO CAN CLAIM COPYRIGHT
Copyright protection subsists from the time the work is created in fixed
form. The copyright in the work of authorship immediately becomes the
property of the author who created the work. Only the author or those
deriving their rights through the author can rightfully claim copyright.

HOW TO SECURE A COPYRIGHT
Copyright Secured Automatically Upon Creation
The way in which copyright protection is secured is frequently
misunderstood. No publication or registration or other action in the
Copyright Office is required to secure copyright. (See following NOTE.)
There are, however, certain definite advantages to registration. See
"Copyright Registration."

Copyright is secured automatically when the work is created, and a work is
"created" when it is fixed in a copy or phonorecord for the first time.
"Copies" are material objects from which a work can be read or visually
perceived either directly or with the aid of a machine or device, such as
books, manuscripts, sheet music, film, videotape, or microfilm.
"Phonorecords" are material objects embodying fixations of sounds
(excluding, by statutory definition, motion picture soundtracks), such as
cassette tapes, CDs, or LPs. Thus, for example, a song (the "work") can be
fixed in sheet music (" copies") or in phonograph disks (" phonorecords"),
or both.

If a work is prepared over a period of time, the part of the work that is
fixed on a particular date constitutes the created work as of that date.

MsCirce

unread,
Aug 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/10/00
to
Well, Maybe it's time I make that trip to Fla. once and for all.And settle
this little matter in another fashion!


"SVsite" <tanija...@my-deja.com> wrote in message

news:8mtmah$4a7$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

MsCirce

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Aug 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/10/00
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And who's ever website you just copied this post from was a copyrighted
site. You just the broke the very law you are trying to protect! Stupid!


"Metadromos" <metad...@trapezoid.itgo.com> wrote in message
news:pqEk5.94543$i5.14...@news1.frmt1.sfba.home.com...

PDValentine

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Aug 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/10/00
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SVsite wrote:

> NO ONE did, you fuckng lying barren destroyer of life. You poisoner of
> fun. NO ONE DID.
>
> Soldiers my ass. YOU have me confused with someone else. JAIL BITCH.

Tani, dear Tani...make us happy and do what Peter Gilmore said you
threatened to do years ago: put the gun in your mouth and pull the trigger.

Paul Douglas Valentine


MsCirce

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Aug 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/10/00
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You're just so jealous of Reverend Schlesinger and other CoS members because
they have many more friends, and are more disciplined than you will ever
have or be! Turd Head! Patience builds character! Something you will never
understand!

"MsCirce" <Ci...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:P%tk5.2625$yq6.1...@cletus.bright.net...

SVsite

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Aug 11, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/11/00
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OO, you went and put lies in the mouth of Peter Gilmore. OOO. ooooo!

Hey, don't you know why Peter and Andre Schlesinger get along so well?
They are very security and conspiracy minded and they TAPE EVERY
CONVERSATION THEY HAVE, over the phone, or in their own homes. Peter
even has a huge reel to reel recording set up, very sophisticated.

In other words, every word you ever said there, including the thanks
for the socks, appreciate that, was taped.

I never had such a sentiment - and Peter Gilmore never said I did.

You're just trying to get me "MAD" at Peter. Whatever for? Why? You
are SO out of the loop.

Why don't you just do what you claimed - and be a pagan and leave
Satanism? You don't know me nor have I ever thought anything you said
(like in Lucifer Rising) about satanism was wrong. So?

You REALLY hate Gilmore - but heh, using me in the middle of this is
NOT going to get you anywhere. Try using Vincent, or Aquino. Hint
Hint.

TJ

Hail #satanmuse the Official Chatroom of Rev. HrVad's C.O.S. Dark
Doctrine Site!
http://www.apodion.com/vad/
And for an Unusual Satanic Site check out
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/


"May the Dark Forces within and without you bring you increase."
Dr. Anton Szandor LaVey

SVsite

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Aug 11, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/11/00
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Valinda

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Aug 11, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/11/00
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~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
*MsCirce, ~
~Don't pretend like you don't know who I am. I know you know who I *
*am. I have talked to you quite a few times on mIRC. I'm Valinda the ~
~seventeen year old from Idaho, remember? Don't attack my age cause I *
*know that is the first thing you would most likely attack. I'm young,~
~your old, big deal. The wiser is not the older, but one who knows *
*better. ~
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
*Faust, ~
~Hey babe! *hugs* Thanks, were you looking for me earlier? Guess what *
*I'm an aunt! Actually I'm exaggerating my excitement. Seven pound, ~
~twelve ounce baby boy. I hope he doesn't inherit my brothers *
*diabetes, only time will tell on that. If that happends tho, I'm ~
~going to be the one with alot of sleepless nights, ha! Figures, *
*parents can't stay up as long as I can and brother and sister-in-law ~
~work alot. You can't exactly let anyone watch a kid like that, but it*
*should be a few months at the least tell it shows up. Anyways give me~
~a call or something! >;)~ *
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

-=Valinda~Kay~Moats=-
I am, who I am, nothing more, nothing less.
(pity the fool who under estimates an opponent)
no pity here.. no real fear..


In article <dip5psgv8anil3uf7...@4ax.com>,

>

--

Valinda

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Aug 11, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/11/00
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Fucked the last message up

MsCirce,
Don't pretend like you don't know who I am. I know you know who I am.


I have talked to you quite a few times on mIRC. I'm Valinda the

seventeen year old from Idaho, remember? Don't attack my age cause I

know that is the first thing you would most likely attack. I'm young,

your old, big deal. The wiser is not the older, but one who knows

better.

Faust,


Hey babe! *hugs* Thanks, were you looking for me earlier? Guess what

I'm an aunt! Actually I'm exaggerating my excitement. Seven pound,

twelve ounce baby boy. I hope he doesn't inherit my brothers diabetes,
only time will tell on that. If that happends tho, I'm going to be the
one with alot of sleepless nights, ha! Figures, parents can't stay up
as long as I can and brother and sister-in-law work alot. You can't
exactly let anyone watch a kid like that, but it should be a few months
at the least tell it shows up. Anyways give me a call or something!
>;)~

-=Valinda~Kay~Moats=-
I am, who I am, nothing more, nothing less.
(pity the fool who under estimates an opponent)
no pity here.. no real fear..


In article <8mvu1d$qa6$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,

--


-=Valinda~Kay~Moats=-
I am, who I am, nothing more, nothing less.
(pity the fool who under estimates an opponent)
no pity here.. no real fear..

blackdog

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Aug 11, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/11/00
to
I dont know WolfatHart that well, but I do recognize that he"s a think
for himself and somewhat stubborn type. So no, I dont buy the idea that
he"s someones boot licker or slave. If Tani helped him get the page all
nice, thats kewl, friends sometimes do that, help each other out. That
doesnt make them lackeys to each other. I also think he"s been involved
in the martial arts with a drive to help others in that for a long time.
I"m saddened that someone would post anothers page to a disc board
without their permission. Good grief, yet another round of "monkey
throwing doo doo" here at alt.satanism.


stacydupont

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Aug 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/12/00
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In article <061cfa88...@usw-ex0101-006.remarq.com>,

My dog Skynard recently died as well; at fifteen, it still
hurts... But he will live on in my memory. He was born on
Halloween 15 years ago, I lived with him the whole time. His
last image of me was telling him I loved him before I went to
sleep. He didn't like strange people in the house, he would bite their
feet if they'de step on his most prized possessions; his
toys. I never neutured him, never; I do not believe in such
cruelty. If he would get outside he would urinate on other dogs, play
with the neighborhood kids, never bit one.Ok, maybe once he did. One,
but hey he was messing with him. Never took shit from
neighborhood dogs. Its obvious to me, that I can not express how he was
to everybody here; but as far fetched as it may seem I
seen him as a brother, perhaps even closer. Still fuck'n do.

Later on. On the same day, incidently I was walking down the
road with a coat that my father passed on to me; It is a nice
military issued trench, with the inside fur lining, and this man walked
up to me and blamed me for colorodo, blamed me for
everything that is wrong with society and told me he would call
the cops if I didnt talk to him; he consistantly continued to
harrass me in open territorry. This I shit you not. I simply
handled the situation by explaining to him that "I'll knock your
fucking ass into next week!" He walked away.

After which I a tattoo of two serpents intertwined; Very nice
symbology of the relationship we had.

It is unfourtunate these things happen Circe, I know how you
feel. Because I still feel that way...


Condolences,


Mr. Timothy Stewart
AKA
Wolf At Hart
5-1-2000
mrtimoth...@hotmail.com


The mighty throne growled, and there were five thunders that
flew into the east, and the eagle spake: Come away from the
house of death! And they gathered themselves together and become those
of whom it measure, for they, are those are the deathless
ones who ride the whirlwinds.


Two days after you posted this to Circe,you told her in CoScentral chat
that you were glad that her cat Mr.Pussens died! I think it would be
safe to say that she already knew you didn't like her.Why would she
need to ask anyone?And further why would she even care if you liked her
or not? She hates people like you who claim everyone is their buddy!She
only likes people that are usually hated by everyone,she claims they
are usually the ones that are sensible in the first place,and most
people can't stand them simply because they are loners.After reading
all I have here I'm beginning to see where she is coming from!

Faust

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Aug 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/13/00
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Didn't I explain once before that a traceable threat;such as a usenet
post, e-mail, letter, phone call, chat log, etc.; would be assault. By
legal definition, the threatening of another with bodily harm.

Now, you can argue that one or two usenet posts are not going to get
the authorities after you in full force, but they do make a convincing
case for premeditation. hmmmmm........

On Thu, 10 Aug 2000 16:40:05 -0400, "MsCirce" <Ci...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

"Shall I yield, thing of flame, to thee? Faust, and thine equal, I am he!" - Faust

"The Tragedy of Faust"

MsCirce

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Aug 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/13/00
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hmmmmmm........No they do not! Mind your own business,before I call your
company and report you for making threatening posts via their communication
systems! You obviously have been struck with this new virus going around
called the "Tani Bug" get over it!

--
A word is not a crystal, transparent and unchanged; it is the skin of a
living thought, and may vary greatly in color and content according to the
circumstances and the time in which it is used.
- - - Oliver Wendell Holmes, opinion, Towne v. Eisner, January 7, 1918

www.celeron.cc
"Faust" <Fa...@itol.com> wrote in message
news:60feps8e6cb8m89tc...@4ax.com...

Faust

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Aug 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/13/00