Kevin Filan in ToS FAQ
Circe
compare Kevin Filan is beyond me!
--
Peace and Love, Circe
<mrno...@cotse.com> wrote in message
news:979494841.3...@webmail.cotse.com...
> (from the respected occult org Temple of Set's
> enemylist: more on childish and malicious
> character of Kevin Filan.
> Complete doc at :
>
> http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/4979/baltsref.frm7.html
>
> ***********
>
> Kevin Filan
>
> Kevin Filan first encountered the Temple of Set through the presence of
several
> Setians discussing Setian philosophy and the Temple on bulletin board
systems.
> During a period when he lived in Oklahoma (near several other Setians), he
> joined the Temple of Set, and achieved the IIΒ° (Adept). Setian philosophy
> apparently didn't suit him, so sometime later he left the organization to
> rejoin the Roman Catholic church. That also didn't suit him, and
eventually he
> reappeared in Pagan cyberspace, this time on alt.satanism, alt.pagan, and
> similar areas.
>
> For a while he was courteous and openly honest. He spoke his mind
concerning
> the things he liked about the Temple of Set, about Setian philosohy, and
about
> Setians, and he spoke his mind concerning the things and people he
disliked.
>
> Shortly after Lupo left the Temple of Set, Mr. Filan began horribly bad-
> mouthing the Temple of Set in general, and the Aquino's specifically, not
only
> complaining about the things he didn't like, but indulging in all sorts of
name-
> calling, filth-slinging, gutter language, etc. It was during this period
that I
> killfiled him, since he had stopped being a voice of reason.
>
> I understand from others, however, that he has continued his childish and
> gutter-level attacks on Dr. Aquino and Lilith Aquino, and on the Temple of
Set,
> going so far as to publish Dr. Aquino's home address and phone number on
> the 'net, not only in Pagan areas (which would be bad enough), but also in
> Christian and other areas where he has encouraged society's bigots and
idiots
> to personally and physically harass the Aquinos.
>
> If I were asked whether there is anyone online who I consider to be lower
even
> than Tani Jantsang, that would certainly be Mr. Kevin Filan.
>
>
Mr. Scratch
<mrno...@cotse.com> wrote:
> (from the respected occult org Temple of Set's
> enemylist: more on childish and malicious
> character of Kevin Filan.
As a former longstanding member and Priest of the Temple of Set, let me
assure you that your evaluation of the Temple of Set as being "respected"
is misplaced on alt.satanism.
In any case, the paragraph you quoted from the ToS enemies list (a list
rather similar to some of the Scientologists' "dead agenting" techniques
I've seen) made me feel very uncomfortable while I was a member, due to
its inaccuracy and distorted perspective. Now, of course, I have a free
hand to comment.
> ***********
>
> Kevin Filan
>
> Kevin Filan first encountered the Temple of Set through the presence
> of several Setians discussing Setian philosophy and the Temple on
> bulletin board systems. During a period when he lived in Oklahoma
> (near several other Setians), he joined the Temple of Set, and
> achieved the IIΒ° (Adept). Setian philosophy apparently didn't suit
> him, so sometime later he left the organization to rejoin the Roman
> Catholic church. That also didn't suit him, and eventually he
> reappeared in Pagan cyberspace, this time on alt.satanism, alt.pagan,
> and similar areas.
Correct.
> For a while he was courteous and openly honest. He spoke his mind
> concerning the things he liked about the Temple of Set, about Setian
> philosohy, and about Setians, and he spoke his mind concerning the
> things and people he disliked.
Mr. Filan arrived some time after I made my debut on alt.satanism, and I
quickly identified him as an intelligent voice, with a perspective on the
Temple of Set that I then considered "balanced" (which is to say, he liked
the Temple of Set, thought Setians were worthwhile people, and found the
Setian philosophy to be productive and correct in a spiritual sense). As
I had come to be one of the few Setian voices on alt.satanism that was
considered credible, and thus found myself in a unique position to defend
and inform others about the Temple of Set in this forum, I made an effort
to keep Mr. Filan on our side. I recognized him as an asset to the ToS,
and often called upon him to speak to the ToS's detractors on other
newsgroups as a "neutral outsider." I found him to be very helpful, and
on a personal note, enjoyed his sense of humor and writing style. At a
time when nearly everyone on this newsgroup vocally hated the Temple of
Set with a passion, I found him to be quite refreshing and valuable.
Such was not to last, of course, but it was not the fault of Mr. Filan
that things went sour.
> Shortly after Lupo left the Temple of Set, Mr. Filan began horribly
> bad- mouthing the Temple of Set in general, and the Aquino's
> specifically, not only complaining about the things he didn't like,
> but indulging in all sorts of name-calling, filth-slinging, gutter
> language, etc. It was during this period that I killfiled him, since
> he had stopped being a voice of reason.
Pure horseshit. (Gosh, I hope that isn't considered "gutter-language"!)
This leads the reader to believe that Mr. Filan, in a mysterious fit of
anger over Lupo's departure from the Temple, suddenly metamorphosed from
our friend, into the familiar image of the "Enemy of the Temple": the
raving lunatic who suddenly lunges at the innocent and bewildered ToS
without provocation. In the skewed world of the Setian perspective, the
Temple's "enemies" are villains right out of some terror-inducing
children's fairy tale, and the image is based on just as much reality.
I was there. Here is what happened.
Filan did not go berzerk when Lupo was expelled/quit the ToS. Lupo was
out of the ToS long before Filan ever showed up. As I said, when Filan
did appear, he seemed to pay little mind to Lupo's arguments with the
Aquinos, and was definitely Setian-friendly (an attitude I willfully
encouraged). The problem began when Dr. Aquino revealed Lupo's workplace,
and suggested that others contact his supervisors. Nearly everyone on the
newsgroup was outraged. I was certainly upset, if for no other reason
than that Dr. Aquino's actions served to destroy the positive image of the
ToS I had been cultivating.
Mr. Filan, while generally pro-Setian, could not turn a blind eye to the
wrong that had been committed; he tactfully suggested that while it was
clear Dr. Aquino and Lupo had their conflicts, that revealing this private
information to a hostile public was not an acceptable strategy, that it
made the Temple of Set in general look bad, and recommended that it might
be best for Dr. Aquino to apologize. Filan's statement to this effect was
fair, and stated in such a way as to not cause further provocation.
In return, Mr. Filan was treated to a series of dismissive insults at the
hands of Dr. Aquino, who accused him of being a Temple groupie, a hyena,
and a vulture circling the Temple of Set. From this time forward, the man
who had been the Temple's friend rapidly became one of its founder's most
tenacious critics. The Temple of Set shouldn't blame him; if they found
an enemy in Kevin Filan, it is only because they created that enemy.
As I said in a previous message, the most fanatically indoctrinated
Setians consider non-Setians to be little more than insects. Sometimes
the non-Setian bug is a repellent cockroach, or sometimes a terrifying
wasp or scorpion, but their evaluation of the non-Setian is generally not
respectful, and it is part of their doctrine that they do not consider
non-members their peers. It doesn't matter if the non-Setian feels
positive or negative feelings toward the Temple, they are considered
untrustworthy, and treated accordingly. It is an idiotic and shortsighted
attitude, one which may someday destroy them.
Another example of this is to be found in the experience of my wife, Kerry
Delf. Though not a member of the Temple, she appreciated its membership
and philosophy, and sought a proactive means of furthering its goals.
For nearly five years, she supported the Temple of Set in remarkable ways;
she was a constant source of moderation and information on the ToS's
public mailing list, and secured the membership of a number of new
initiates. She worked to refute those who defamed the Temple, sometimes
at risk to herself. She was a constant and active source of support for
me as a Priest, often handling some of my lesser duties for me (such as
organizing meetings for local Temple members). She maintained a wide
range of contacts among Setians, and would often send them reading
material and other resources related to their initiation, free of charge.
During Conclave, she was an everpresent source of discussion with Setians,
and even assumed responsibility for some of the security work in order to
free up Setian security teams for important rituals and meetings.
She was quite popular with Setians of the I* and II* degrees, but
strangely seemed to inspire a strange hostility from the politicized,
ass-kissing elements of the Temple, especially those associated with
Lilith Aquino's Arkte Element. At one point, an honorary member
associated with that Element, Eve (a.k.a. Morgan) Kochel, even lit into
Kerry via email because Kerry, a non-Setian, had the audacity to respond
to a query on a Setian elist when no Setians stepped forward to handle it.
Kochel then stepped even further over the line and actually threatened
her, saying that there was a group of Setians, including an "influential
member," who had prepared an unfriendly "surprise" for her at the next
Conclave. When I called this person to task on her inappropriately
assuming the role of the Priesthood and her attempts at intimidation, she
rudely informed me that she had every right to speak to my wife this way,
as Kerry was not a Setian, and went on to levy a number of accusations and
insults against myself. In spite of my efforts, the offender went
unpunished, beyond receiving a stern finger-shaking from Don Webb.
I was somewhat pleased that the Temple might be capable of reversing its
idiotic treatment of friendly non-Setians when Kerry was made an Honorary
Setian for her efforts. However, this was a short-lived pleasure, for as
soon as it was announced, she was rudely insulted by certain members
(again associated with the Arkte Element), the validity of the award was
publicly questioned before the membership by members of the Magistry, and
the Priesthood list was abuzz with all manner of justifications as to why
such demeaning, protocol-violating statements and behavior were justified
and correct. Certain European Magisters (presumably the Schrecks)
immediately moved to restrict her access to Setian online materials
(though it is customary to allow Honorary members access to the same
material available to a I*), and she was kicked off Setian-L after her
introductory post. What had been intended to be a well-deserved honor
bestowed on my wife -- and was understood as such by the majority of the
membership -- turned out to be an irresistible opportunity for the
knuckle-draggers and the envious to heap scorn upon her.
As I said before, if you consider this organization to be "respected,"
then I suggest you consider whether that respect goes both ways. To many
in the hierarchy of the Temple, your respect is meaningless -- as an
outsider, you are probably an enemy. Maybe a dormant one, but they'd just
as soon see you lunging at their throats as they would have you praising
them.
> I understand from others, however, that he has continued his childish
> and gutter-level attacks on Dr. Aquino and Lilith Aquino, and on the
> Temple of Set, going so far as to publish Dr. Aquino's home address
> and phone number on the 'net, not only in Pagan areas (which would be
> bad enough), but also in Christian and other areas where he has
> encouraged society's bigots and idiots to personally and physically
> harass the Aquinos.
With all due respect, this is a game the Aquinos introduced to this
newsgroup, with the revelation of Lupo's workplace. While I do not agree
with Mr. Filan's methods, I also believe that those in glass houses should
not throw stones, nor should pots call kettles black.
Xeper.
Mr. Scratch
Priest of Set
Kevin Filan
"Mr. Scratch" <scr...@efn.org> wrote:
>
> <mrno...@cotse.com> wrote:
>
> > (from the respected occult org Temple of Set's
> > enemylist: more on childish and malicious
> > character of Kevin Filan.
>
> As a former longstanding member and Priest of the Temple of Set, let
me
> assure you that your evaluation of the Temple of Set as being
"respected"
> is misplaced on alt.satanism.
From the atrocious grammar, I suspect Mr. No User may be Chris
"Satanickeys" Garrett, who was posting here a while back. Like "Mr. No
User," he had a tendency to drop the article in sentences i.e. "on
childish and malicious character of Kevin Filan." At first I thought he
be a native speaker of some Slavic language, as I've seen Russians and
Czechs drop the "the" in their sentences ala "Quick! Is moose and
squirrel!" It turns out, however, that Mr. Garrett was not in fact
Slavic, merely exceedingly stupid. This may be Garrett, or it may be
someone who rode the short bus to school alongside him. The poster,
like his postings, is ultimately unimportant.
In any event, I'm flattered by the attention... and amused that Mr. No
User was able to put the words "respected occult org" and "enemylist"
together in a sentence whilst keeping a straight face.
> In any case, the paragraph you quoted from the ToS enemies list (a
list
> rather similar to some of the Scientologists' "dead agenting"
techniques
> I've seen) made me feel very uncomfortable while I was a member, due
to
> its inaccuracy and distorted perspective. Now, of course, I have a
free
> hand to comment.
I think keeping an "enemies list" is generally a bad idea. Instead of
attacking the people, why not attack their inaccurate ideas? If they
are REALLY ranting, evil loons, that fact will become clear soon enough.
> > Kevin Filan
> >
> > Kevin Filan first encountered the Temple of Set through the presence
> > of several Setians discussing Setian philosophy and the Temple on
> > bulletin board systems. During a period when he lived in Oklahoma
> > (near several other Setians), he joined the Temple of Set, and
> > achieved the II=B0 (Adept). Setian philosophy apparently didn't suit
> > him, so sometime later he left the organization to rejoin the Roman
> > Catholic church. That also didn't suit him, and eventually he
> > reappeared in Pagan cyberspace, this time on alt.satanism,
alt.pagan,
> > and similar areas.
>
> Correct.
So far Balanone's statements are accurate.
> > For a while he was courteous and openly honest. He spoke his mind
> > concerning the things he liked about the Temple of Set, about Setian
> > philosohy, and about Setians, and he spoke his mind concerning the
> > things and people he disliked.
>
> Mr. Filan arrived some time after I made my debut on alt.satanism, and
I
> quickly identified him as an intelligent voice, with a perspective on
the
> Temple of Set that I then considered "balanced" (which is to say, he
liked
> the Temple of Set, thought Setians were worthwhile people, and found
the
> Setian philosophy to be productive and correct in a spiritual sense).
Again, this is all true. I think that affiliation with the Temple of
Set can be beneficial to some people. ToS membership gives you a chance
to network with some creative, funny, intelligent and interesting
people... alas, it also gives you a chance to get entangled in some
really stupid, petty personality conflicts and general bullshite. While
I disagree with some key elements of the philosophy and think that some
Setian takes on history are a bit *ahem* creative, I honestly do not see
the Temple of Set as a dangerous criminal cult. I had a problem with
the behavior exhibited by Michael and Lilith Aquino... not with the
Temple of Set.
> As
> I had come to be one of the few Setian voices on alt.satanism that was
> considered credible, and thus found myself in a unique position to
defend
> and inform others about the Temple of Set in this forum, I made an
effort
> to keep Mr. Filan on our side.
Again, this is accurate. While Scratch and I have disagreed on a few
occasions, we've always had respect for the other's intellectual
abilities. And, at that time, much of the ToS/CoS criticism was of the
all-too-familiar "Oook!! LaVey bankrupt!" "Ugh! Mikey molest children!"
level we've come to know and love on alt.satanism.
(Hey, Scratch! Remember how stupid things were on this newsgroup back in
94/95? Well, guess what... they've gone downhill since then! The
current crop makes Anthony "ArthRA" Licalzzi look like a rocket
scientist...)
> I recognized him as an asset to the ToS,
> and often called upon him to speak to the ToS's detractors on other
> newsgroups as a "neutral outsider." I found him to be very helpful,
and
> on a personal note, enjoyed his sense of humor and writing style. At
a
> time when nearly everyone on this newsgroup vocally hated the Temple
of
> Set with a passion, I found him to be quite refreshing and valuable.
>
> Such was not to last, of course, but it was not the fault of Mr. Filan
> that things went sour.
Looking back, I think I would have handled things a bit differently than
I did. I was a lot closer to the Temple of Set at that point, and
exploded in a red-hot emotional ball of rage. Today, I'd keep my cool
and needle Mike & Lil until THEY exploded. I'd also target my anger a
bit more carefully. I aimed a lot of abuse at Balanone, for example,
which I regret now. While I still think he mishandled the situation,
and wish he would for once step up and say "Ummm, Mike/Lil... you're
behaving like fuckheads and I really wish you'd cut it out..." he didn't
deserve the namecalling I shot at him.
If I had it to do over again, I would try harder not to alienate
everyone connected with the Temple of Set. On the other hand, I doubt
that it would work ... as you've pointed out, the ToS has a great love
of "enemies" and tends to see even honest criticism as proof of some
"hidden agenda."
> > Shortly after Lupo left the Temple of Set, Mr. Filan began horribly
> > bad- mouthing the Temple of Set in general, and the Aquino's
> > specifically, not only complaining about the things he didn't like,
> > but indulging in all sorts of name-calling, filth-slinging, gutter
> > language, etc. It was during this period that I killfiled him, since
> > he had stopped being a voice of reason.
As Scratch points out: here Balanone overlooks the fact that this
"gutter language" and "filth-slinging" was provoked by the Michael
Aquino's posting of information about Lupo's workplace, and by Lilith
Aquino's continual stream of abusive, ill-spelled stupidity aimed at
every non-Setian on the group. (My first post to alt.satanism was met
by a jeering response from Lil posting as "Dark Star," which sparked a
rather lengthy argument on Holocaust revisionism; Lil also at one point
referred to a 15-year old female poster as a "cum bucket").
I was definitely guilty of intemperate and heated language in that
particular flamewar... but, as Scratch points out, it was not as if I
just woke up one morning and said "Gee... I think I'm going to begin
attacking the Temple of Set for no reason."
> Mr. Filan, while generally pro-Setian, could not turn a blind eye to
the
> wrong that had been committed; he tactfully suggested that while it
was
> clear Dr. Aquino and Lupo had their conflicts, that revealing this
private
> information to a hostile public was not an acceptable strategy, that
it
> made the Temple of Set in general look bad, and recommended that it
might
> be best for Dr. Aquino to apologize. Filan's statement to this effect
was
> fair, and stated in such a way as to not cause further provocation.
That was my exact sentiment, actually quite close to my exact words. I
felt it was a bad tactical move. As soon as I posted this, Lil and Mike
decided that they would start attacking me: I responded accordingly.
The rest is history...
> In return, Mr. Filan was treated to a series of dismissive insults at
the
> hands of Dr. Aquino, who accused him of being a Temple groupie, a
hyena,
> and a vulture circling the Temple of Set. From this time forward, the
man
> who had been the Temple's friend rapidly became one of its founder's
most
> tenacious critics. The Temple of Set shouldn't blame him; if they
found
> an enemy in Kevin Filan, it is only because they created that enemy.
And, again, I have nothing against the Temple of Set. My criticism was
aimed at the behavior of Michael and Lilith Aquino. Under HP Webb,
the Temple has moved away from the constant sniping about LaVey, the
Church of Satan, etc. (at least publicly), and has been leaning more
toward Thelemic and Runic stuff. While I might not be particularly
interested in rejoining (and doubt they'd be particularly interested in
having me rejoin), I don't see them as any more dangerous or evil than
an OTO lodge or a Wiccan circle.
If Scratch has any evidence that the ToS is still playing at ham-handed
"dirty tricks" like contacting employers, releasing addresses, etc. I'd
definitely be interested in seeing it. But in all honesty I think at
present they're guilty of being a bit deluded and silly, not criminal.
(I suspect Scratch shares my sentiments here).
> respectful, and it is part of their doctrine that they do not consider
> non-members their peers. It doesn't matter if the non-Setian feels
> positive or negative feelings toward the Temple, they are considered
> untrustworthy, and treated accordingly. It is an idiotic and
shortsighted
> attitude, one which may someday destroy them.
I think members of any organization can get into that
"ToS/CoS/ONA/FCoS/ETC Good! Everyone else bad!" mode of thought. It's
not particularly productive, but probably unavoidable.
As an interesting aside: I note that not long after the ToS under
Webb basically lost interest in the Church of Satan, the FCoS under Egan
came riding into the vacuum to provide flames and drama. Frankly, the
ToS has more class...
> She was quite popular with Setians of the I* and II* degrees, but
> strangely seemed to inspire a strange hostility from the politicized,
> ass-kissing elements of the Temple, especially those associated with
> Lilith Aquino's Arkte Element. At one point, an honorary member
> associated with that Element, Eve (a.k.a. Morgan) Kochel, even lit
I suspect the hostility came when Kerry rightly called out one
"Anna...@aol.com" of "Eugene, Oregon." Anna Fazen, like Hans Riker,
Rennet, "David Mitchell," "Don Barstow," etc., was an obvious
sockpuppet, another example of that Ever-Popular ToS Defense. ("Gee, if
we create a couple of anonymous accounts, and then post claiming we're
'neither ToS nor CoS,' nobody will EVER think it's us...")
Kerry pointed out that "Anna" was not fooling anyone, and was just
making herself, the Aquinos, and the Temple of Set look bad. She was
actually quite polite about it... and was met, as I recall, with a
stream of profanity and accusations of being a "Curio supporter." This
is amusing, as Lilith and Pals have done more to injure the Temple of
Set's online reputation than anything ever posted by Curio.
> > I understand from others, however, that he has continued his
childish
> > and gutter-level attacks on Dr. Aquino and Lilith Aquino,
This one always slays me. Any time anyone has to point out repeatedly
how they "don't read" your stuff, it's a sure sign they're flagging your
posts and poring over every line you type.
> > and on the
> > Temple of Set, going so far as to publish Dr. Aquino's home address
> > and phone number on the 'net, not only in Pagan areas (which would
be
> > bad enough), but also in Christian and other areas where he has
> > encouraged society's bigots and idiots to personally and physically
> > harass the Aquinos.
>
> With all due respect, this is a game the Aquinos introduced to this
> newsgroup, with the revelation of Lupo's workplace. While I do not
agree
> with Mr. Filan's methods, I also believe that those in glass houses
should
> not throw stones, nor should pots call kettles black.
At this point, *I* don't agree with my methods. That being said: they
appear to have had the desired effect. The Aquinos wouldn't stop
posting personal information because it was the right thing to do... but
they appear to have stopped when it became clear that this behavior
would be met with retaliation. Sometimes a soft word and a few sharp
blows with a baseball bat get your point across better than just a soft
word.
Peace
Kevin Filan
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
Eric Cartman
MOMMY'S APRON STRINGS YOU GOD DAMN PUSSY!
Kevin Filan
sockpup...@aol.comeinhere (Eric Cartman) wrote:
> SHUT UP PIP BEFORE I KICK YOUR ASS! WHY DON'T YOU GO HOME AND GRAB ON
TO
> MOMMY'S APRON STRINGS YOU GOD DAMN PUSSY!
COMMON USENET TROLL: (Postus Moronicus)
Frequency: As per the name
Also Known As: Fuckhead. Boor. Lackwit. Dimbulb. Yiggie Rabishu.
Distinguishing Features:
Sloping shoulders with matching brow. Beady, close-set eyes. Thick
callouses on knuckles (caused by their constantly dragging upon the
ground). Some scientists theorize that these callouses account for the
numerous typos and misspellings found in the droppings (also known as
postings) of the Common Usenet Troll. Others point to the Common Usenet
Troll mating rituals (which appear, from all available evidence, to
consist solely of impersonating bisexual women in chat rooms) and
suggest this is the reason why the keyboards of the Common Usenet Troll
so frequently have stuck caps lock keys.
Behaviors in the Wild:
The Common Usenet Troll is utterly lacking in imagination, and, when not
repeating old jokes or making snide (and typically misunderstood)
cultural references, will typically respond with one of the commonly
documented Troll-Flames:
1) <opponent> is homosexual. Variants of this include the short mode (a
repeatedly grunted "Queer" or "Faggot") and the verbose mode (detailed
and sweaty descriptions of all the horrible disgusting gay sex your
opponent is having.
2) <opponent> is fat. Most typically used against female opponents.
(If a female opponent is homosexual or bisexual, the Common Usenet Troll
most typically asks for IRC pointers before attacking).
3) <opponent> is a slut. Common response to bisexual women who won't
give them IRC pointers.
Common Habitats: AOL, WebTV, <insert anon server here>
Remedy: Fire at will.
CraigBarrows3113
>Setians consider non-Setians to be little more than insects.
The Nazis viewed others that way.
Bigoted, delusional religious crackpots are bigoted, delusional religious
crackpots regardless.
It doesn't matter if the non-Setian feels
>positive or negative feelings toward the Temple, they are considered
>untrustworthy, and treated accordingly. It is an idiotic and shortsighted
>attitude, one which may someday destroy them.
Stupid is as stupid does. If they bring that destruction to themselves by their
own hands and actions, they more than deserve it. And I'll party on it.
>Another example of this is to be found in the experience of my wife, Kerry
>Delf. Though not a member of the Temple, she appreciated its membership
>and philosophy, and sought a proactive means of furthering its goals. =20
>For nearly five years, she supported the Temple of Set in remarkable ways;
>she was a constant source of moderation and information on the ToS's
>public mailing list, and secured the membership of a number of new
>initiates. She worked to refute those who defamed the Temple, sometimes
>at risk to herself. She was a constant and active source of support for
>me as a Priest....
>She was quite popular with Setians of the I* and II* degrees, but
>strangely seemed to inspire a strange hostility from the politicized,
>ass-kissing elements of the Temple, especially those associated with
>Lilith Aquino's Arkte Element. At one point, an honorary member
>associated with that Element, Eve (a.k.a. Morgan) Kochel, even lit into
>Kerry via email because Kerry, a non-Setian, had the audacity to respond
>to a query on a Setian elist when no Setians stepped forward to handle it. =
>=20
>Kochel then stepped even further over the line and actually threatened
>her, saying that there was a group of Setians, including an "influential
>member," who had prepared an unfriendly "surprise" for her at the next
>Conclave.
So threatening people is OK with the TOS? Not surprising. Makes you wonder what
else they'd be capable of if they had control over the economy, supply &
demand, etc. {shades of Dauchau and Auschwitz}
I'm sorry about what happened to your wife, and you, though you both may now be
better people for what happened. An old and true saying always comes to my
mind when I read your posts, Scratch. "Those who lie down with dogs get up with
fleas." And another old and true saying also comes to my mind about the TOS,
"There's no honor among theives."
If TOS members are "the elite," and "the highest of the high," the rest of
humanity has nothing to fear or envy. Looks like the "highest of the high and
elect" are just another group of bigoted, intolerant screeching apes {gosh, I
suppose I shouldn't insult apes, though} throwing shit.
When I called this person to task on her inappropriately
>assuming the role of the Priesthood and her attempts at intimidation, she
>rudely informed me that she had every right to speak to my wife this way,
>as Kerry was not a Setian, and went on to levy a number of accusations and
>insults against myself. In spite of my efforts, the offender went
>unpunished, beyond receiving a stern finger-shaking from Don Webb.
>
Again, you lie down with the dogs you get up with fleas. I don't know how many
other people are reading your stuff Scratch, but anyone who would go off and
join the TOS after what you've said is an absolute moron (though they sure
wouldn't be lonely for company). "It can't happen to me" are THE most famous
Last Words.
>As I said before, if you consider this organization to be "respected,"
>then I suggest you consider whether that respect goes both ways. To many
>in the hierarchy of the Temple, your respect is meaningless -- as an
>outsider, you are probably an enemy. Maybe a dormant one, but they'd just
>as soon see you lunging at their throats as they would have you praising
>them.
Looks like a chump deal all the way around. Lets see now...the TOS is afflicted
with rampant bigotry, misanthropy, intolerance, paranoia, and cut-throat
politics. I wonder if Mike and Lilith ever think of themselves as Bonnie and
Clyde? Eva and Adolph? Wow, if THIS is the best the "highest of the high" and
"elect/elite" can do, they've got no place stomping around looking down their
noses at the rest of humankind. Kinda hypocritical.
>
>> I understand from others, however, that he has continued his childish
>> and gutter-level attacks on Dr. Aquino and Lilith Aquino, and on the
>> Temple of Set, going so far as to publish Dr. Aquino's home address
>> and phone number on the 'net, not only in Pagan areas (which would be
>> bad enough), but also in Christian and other areas where he has
>> encouraged society's bigots and idiots to personally and physically
>> harass the Aquinos.
>
>With all due respect, this is a game the Aquinos introduced to this
>newsgroup, with the revelation of Lupo's workplace. While I do not agree
>with Mr. Filan's methods, I also believe that those in glass houses should
>not throw stones, nor should pots call kettles black.
>
>
>Xeper.
>
>Mr. Scratch
>Priest of Set
Michael Aquino is a grade A asshole. And birds of a feather flock together.
They can believe whatever they want to about themselves. Some of us can see
right through them and their self-deceit. What was that Anton LaVey said about
hypocritical self-deceit again?
SVsite
> > bad- mouthing the Temple of Set in general, and the Aquino's
> > specifically, not only complaining about the things he didn't like,
> > but indulging in all sorts of name-calling, filth-slinging, gutter
> > language, etc. It was during this period that I killfiled him, since
> > he had stopped being a voice of reason.
>
> Pure horseshit. (Gosh, I hope that isn't considered "gutter-
language"!)
Ok, hold on. I saw some of that. "Aquino's MOTHER sucks Eichmann's
cock in hell, gets fucked in the ass by Hitler." "The Book of CUMING"
or something like that? I saw that. Filan was as bad, if not worse,
than the kids in the white devil gang - who, btw, took their flame cues
FROM Filan and other "respected" cos hierarchs. They were kids. Inner
city kids. Yeah, I know, I got the credit/blame for it. No matter. I
saw some of that. Oh, that's right, Filan claimed that Harwer said
it. Sheesh. He even broke the law back then for hell's sakes,
Scratch. Broke the fucking law - and for what? Some stupid holy war?
Heh. Holy jihad about the deity? godDAMN.
> Another example of this is to be found in the experience of my wife,
Kerry
> Delf. Though not a member of the Temple, she appreciated its
membership
> and philosophy, and sought a proactive means of furthering its goals.
Oh? By doing what? Contacting the NIH and other such organizations
and splattering my name around as the author of something I didn't even
write? Yeah, RIGHT. And then there was the DEATH PORNO with the names
of minors in it. Remember THAT? I went to the FBI. REMEMBER THAT?
Scratch, despite having never seen 99% of it, having never even written
99% of it - I accept RESPONSIBILITY for what those kids did - after
all, I said "do what cos wants, go set fire to alt.satanism." Well.
That's more than I can say for any of you: you DO NOT accept
responsibility for what you REALLY DID. I'm accepting it for something
I did NOT do - and did NOT EVEN SEE for the most part. Despite NOT
putting flames and ad hominem shit in posts that ended up as "articles"
on Vad's site (which I never saw, which Phil has STILL never seen) I
accept RESPONSIBILITY - after all, I SAID "Edit it if you like, add
what you want in there," to the person who actually DID post it and
give it to Vad. Ho ho, now that I know what full headers are, anyone
can GO LOOK AT THEM and see WHO posted it. Um, I have the originals :)
on Brother wp discs and format. These kids were the FIRST to wash
their hands of any involvement with the cos - the FIRST to judge the
entire org as POISON. Clever kids. They'd be the first to explain
that raging feeling of HOLY WAR. At first it was funny, all the
flames. Then it sucked - so they stopped cold. They took a long hard
look at LaVey: yeah, right. NOTHING THERE. They took a long hard
look at Aquino: heh, this guy at least is serious with his Set thing.
What's all this fighting about then? Nothing. I'd say that the FBI
put an end to all of it too.
Ok, she's SAINT Kerry. Got it.
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IapetusMonolith
>Satanic Reds is a Council Member Org.
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>
>SLAVA NAM! SLAVA SATANYE! SLAVA CHYERNOMU PLAMYENI! SLAVA YA!
>
Hey, what the hell is this? Speaking in tongues in alt.satanism?! Damn! What
IS the world coming to?
Anthony Q. Bachler
napkin please :ΕΎ
IapetusMonolith wrote in message
<20010123093443...@ng-ff1.aol.com>...
clue...@my-deja.com
> And then there was the DEATH PORNO with the names
> of minors in it. Remember THAT? I went to the FBI. REMEMBER THAT?
OK, I'm starting this soap opera in the middle of a show, and while the
White devil kids thing is starting to make sense through context, this
new character DEATH PORNO has me scratching my head.
Anyone care to give me a synopsis?
SVsite
the Black Flame. Hail Self.
Now you have permission to SLOBBER on yourselves. You couldn't just
ASK what it meant. Nah, that would have been too difficult for your
sensitive egos. But, then again, had I said "the weather is cold"
you'd have FOUND a reason to release that inner "NYAAAAAA" all over
it. Right? Right.
TJ
In article <t6rnkrc...@corp.supernews.com>,
--
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SVsite
posted a heap of porno with death in it, serial killer shit, with my
name and the names of the minors involved stuck in it. It stopped
after I took it all to the FBI.
End of that story. There was a flame war- you got that?
1. CoS admin and top people ask me and Phil to explain "dark force"
to "big bad enemies of the cos, people out to harm Anton and - " you
know the line, right?
2. We did it.
3. I'm shown print outs (all of what I saw was printed out on hard
copy paper) of Aquino and Lilith slandering me all over alt.satanism -
and for what? Flame start. (Update: Aquino has no idea what this
could be and states he did NOT write any such things: I asked him
recently).
4. Bren is a 15 year old kid with a gang of friends into mischief.
They are "go" for flaming "THE ENEMY." They do.
5. It gets way out of hand when the other side first mentions arsenals
of guns. The flames escalate from there.
6. I see some of it, maybe 10 pages worth. I put an end to it by
getting the "grown ups" involved. I.e., FBI.
Period. Sorry ass shit in lieu of the fact that this started over an
argument about what Anton LaVey meant by "dark force in nature," or
whether or not he believed in a literal devil. Yeah.... Whatever.
Aquino claims Anton believed in a literal devil. Gilmore and gang
claimed otherwise. We (Phil and me and some others on here, an
electrical engineer, etc.) defined dark force - what it is, however we
are REALLY defining "boundless darkness" in many LHP
religions/philosophies.
Question is, did Anton SAY that? Say what? Say which version: Yes to
both. He said both. He said one thing to one person, and behind the
back said other stuff to others. He even told people Satan was a
tutelary demon that talked to him. What do you want from a grown man
who talked to dolls?
White devil gang were a whole heap of kids with a hot internet account
belonging to some stranger. Inner city kids most of them. They wrote
flames that can only be topped by Filan's flames to Aquino. From what
little I saw, and some that got reposted here by someone digging it up,
the flames had NOTHING TO DO with the "dark force."
What is more important on the inner level is that ALL involved, either
directly doing it, or getting the credit/blame for it, or observing it
after it got so bad - are all too well aware of the "jihad" like storm
trooper mentality that this beyond-herd CLIQUE of people easily gets
into. It's an odd thing - it's beyond anything the regular herd does.
They have an idol, Anton, they think they have a holy cause to defend-
and they have the literal storm trooper like mentality of gangs. At
least the WD gang thought it was funny - most of them didn't know who
any of these org people were. Or care. But the ones in the cult?
They'll flame and trash ANYONE perceived as saying one negative thing
(even if it's a true thing) and go after anyone DARING to mention
Anton's name on a website, even in passing at times. They go after
anyone that won't cough over c note and join the nothing org. At the
same time, they spill their guts to perceived hierarchs in the org,
obey them almost unconditionally and defend anything that is said,
especially defend it against anyone disagreeing. The kids knew this
immediately and were very familiar with it - some of them had been in
REAL gangs - getting on the internet was better and it taught them
computer skills. It is also known to many of the people who have said
bye bye to the cult and long judged it as poison except for the dark
doctrine stuff that ended up "linked" to it.
FTR, I was never in the cult. Titles handed to me not withstanding.
As I have ALREADY explained. It's old shit. But for some of the people
involved directly (NOT kids, NOT inner city types expected to be that
way) that now want to call themselves Saints, well.... irony.
An example of the mentality can be seen by two posters that want to
mock out a legitimate language on this thread. Notice it. It's
typical.
TJ
In article <94ksna$irf$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
--
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Anthony Q. Bachler
french adn spanish which I, at the time, felt more likely to be of use.
SVsite wrote in message <94kv43$l5u$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
Mr. Scratch
> On Tue, 23 Jan 2001, SVsite wrote:
>
> > Contacting the NIH and other such organizations and splattering my
> > name around as the author of something I didn't even write? Yeah,
> > RIGHT. And then there was the DEATH PORNO with the names of minors in
> > it. Remember THAT? I went to the FBI. REMEMBER THAT?
>
(snip)
>
> I have never contacted the NIH (I assume she means the National Institutes
> of Health) regarding Tani Jantsang. I can't even fathom what would be the
> purpose in doing so. I *don't* actually recall any "DEATH PORNO with the
> names of minors in it" -- any "death porno" at all, even -- and I
> certainly didn't write any. If such messages were indeed posted by anyone
> to alt.satanism during my tenure on this newsgroup, a Deja link or even a
> quick synopsis might jog my memory. I must say, however, that I'm rather
> doubtful regarding that conditional clause; we've all seen how malleable
> Tani's memory and interpretation can be.
Tani is talking about some pedo-snuff porn fiction that someone posted
anonymously to a.s., substituting her name for the child-killing villain.
I'd forgotten about it, but apparently it put a bee in her bonnet; years
later she's still steamed. Anyway, she's looking for the culprit; first
she thought it was me. Then she thought it was Dan Clore. Now evidently
she thinks it was you.
(*shrug*)
For the record Tani, It wasn't me, Kerry, and I doubt it was Clore. I
don't know who it was. I don't even have a vague clue about who it might
be. Not my concern.
> Get a clue, Tani. You claim you didn't know what was going on here on
> alt.satanism, and that you didn't write the material that your lackeys
> claimed you did, during the period (1995-1998, as I recall) when battles
> were raging in your name. So either you are lying through your teeth
> about your supposed ignorance and lack of involvement, and are now telling
> more self-serving lies about what was said and done by whom during that
> period (because you're certainly making a hell of a lot of false
> claims)...or you are telling the truth about this, you didn't know what
> was going on, and should recognize that you don't know shit about any of
> us, what we said, what we did, or what the actual order of events
> was. It's clear to anyone who was here to observe the events in question
> that, given your current claims, you are either lying or insane (or
> possibly both).
Good point, but it does no good to make it. Everyone who knows the deal
with Tani already gets the gist. Those few who disagree are beyond
arguing with.
> Either way, I suggest you back off.
Just my opinion, but it is useless, even counterproductive, to say such
things. It's not like she's going to "back off", even if it were the
rational, reasonably thing to do. You know Tani. C'mon.
I wasted a great deal of time and energy doing this tango with Tani and
her "Monkey Bunch". When I say "waste of time", it doesn't even really
begin to convey just how many actual trillions of hours (or what seemed
like it anyway) I squandered looking up material to refute what reasonable
people automatically recognized as gibberish anyway. Sorry Tan-Tan, I
know you put a lot of effort into this "Dark Doctrine" stuff, but that
really is what it looks like to me; that's all I have to say on the
matter.
The whole effort was pretty damn silly in retrospect. I wouldn't bother
doing it again, and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone else who has an
otherwise productive life or meaningful hobby.
Just my opinion. I'll shut up now. ;)
> -Kerry Delf
> k...@efn.org
Mr. Scratch
SVsite
your way - the people who wrote it "in my name?" no, maybe even USING
my name, but in the name of the COS, have admitted to writing it. Two
of them still post here occasionally. Their flame style should be very
recognizable to you. They have no problem taking credit. They KNOW
you thought it came from me - and I personally didn't care about it. I
take responsbility - but do I know about all of it? No, I saw maybe -
all told? 20 pages of it, more or less. What I saw very early on I
answered - it's on Vad's site tho it was not articles - it was "posts"
or what I thought would be posts (my conception of what that was). It
was many answers, short paragraphs, to many people, of what I thought
would be posts on "Dark Force" as a subject. It was not an "article"
called Dark Force - but it became that on Vad's site. It ended
up "appearing to be" an article. It's not. I don't personally give a
flying fuck what you think. Or believe! Casey (Jaws from Hell? Sy
Beria? One Darkness?) came right out and admitted she CLAIMED she was
me. So what? I don't care! I didn't waste any time. You did.
>
> > Get a clue, Tani. You claim you didn't know what was going on here
on
> > alt.satanism, and that you didn't write the material that your
lackeys
No, I had no idea it drifted so far away from "dark force." Repeat
that: I had no idea. No one printed it out - why would anyone waste
that much ink? Or postage? I don't have lackeys, honey. That is what
you and the other REAL LACKEYS NEVER understood: you ego project this
paradigm onto everyone else. Go ahead - see if anyone cares! They did
what "the cos" told them to do - and went after you all like jihad
warriors, heh. So? They had fun, they laughed their butts off. They
got to see inside the cos and feel that suffocating shit first hand.
And you wasted how much of your life trying to do what? Argue with me
and I wasn't even there.
> > claimed you did, during the period (1995-1998, as I recall) when
battles
> > were raging in your name.
In my name? No. Using my name possibly, but the battles were waged in
the name of the cos. Get that part straight! Disinfo News remembers
that quite well! So do the people in the white devil gang that still
post here and/or are still around not posting.
So either you are lying through your teeth
> > about your supposed ignorance and lack of involvement, and are now
telling
> > more self-serving lies about what was said and done by whom during
that
> > period (because you're certainly making a hell of a lot of false
> > claims)...or you are telling the truth about this, you didn't know
what
> > was going on, and should recognize that you don't know shit about
any of
> > us, what we said, what we did, or what the actual order of events
> > was.
If I wanted to lie about it, I'd claim I knew NOTHING about it. I
could. But THIS, what you say, is true: I don't know really what you
said, or what anyone else really said. And this is one more example
that this is true: Dr. Aquino and Lilith did not slander Phil or me.
Yet I saw print outs of alleged posts showing they did. Dr. Aquino
never read a single issue of Black Flame; yet Gilmore claimed he did
and even wrote some complimentary letter about Phil's article. Gilmore
claimed he reviewed a book on steady state theory to "dupe Mikey." Yet
Dr. Aquino never even read that magazine. Does Gilmore lie? Um, is
that a trick question? You or Kerry did NOT do that? OK. I don't
see you have any reason to lie about it. You are right there. I don't
know what went on. I was TOLD heh, by guess who (who hated the tos
with a passion). Considering that I have been around for many years, I
never "hated" the TOS or had much to say about it one way or the
other. But WHO DID? But you are 100% right here. I DONT know. I
don't even know if what I was looking at, printed out, were real posts
taken from here. Apparently, they were not. It's not just Dr. Aquino
that swears he never posted such a thing, but the News doesn't remember
seeing anything like that either and they are an independent source.
Have I seen other samples of "pretend posts and letters" from the same
sources? Oh yes. Ok then. I believe you. I have no other choice.
See how simple that is?
Repeat, I'm not lying. I take *responsibility* since I knew the wd
gang and said "just do what the cos says, ha ha, set fire to it."
Those who wrote it admit to writing it. They have admitted to it
without a problem. Simple as that. I don't care! But, ok - forget
all that, you are trying to paint yourselves as little Setian Angels in
the TOS, amidst a pack of lying deceiving wolves. One week prior to
that expulsion, the pack of lying deceiving wolves would have been
Great Educators, Wise People. COME ON! Whatever. I really feel sorry
you got kicked out - I think it was a mistake. But my opinion means
ZERO on this. We have Dr. Aquino saying that the Schrecks are not even
involved in your expulsion - and they say they kicked you for exactly
what you admit you did. So? Gee.
>
> I wasted a great deal of time and energy doing this tango with Tani
and
> her "Monkey Bunch". When I say "waste of time", it doesn't even
really
> begin to convey just how many actual trillions of hours (or what
seemed
> like it anyway) I squandered looking up material to refute what
reasonable
> people automatically recognized as gibberish anyway. Sorry Tan-Tan, I
> know you put a lot of effort into this "Dark Doctrine" stuff, but that
> really is what it looks like to me; that's all I have to say on the
> matter.
What I've seen remnants of, reposted here, had nothing to do with the
Dark Force at all. I saw flames totally off topic. Right, YOU wasted
reams of YOUR time, arguing with a gang of maybe 15 or more people.
KIDS most of them. Um.... he he he. Why ever would you do that?
Casey showed me some of what she wrote, claiming she was MAG T JANTSANG
and all that. I read it: PHEW. Fell on the floor laughing at it.
And you argued with that? Gee. I saw some of Brendan's too. Gee.
Scratch, my arms were crippled up. Around 1998, they were back to
normal, partially. OK? I didn't read what you wrote, I didn't ask to
read it, I didn't reply to it.
If YOU can't understand "Satanic Postulates" or "Asat Sat and Tan" -
Or "Darkness is One" or "LHP and RHP" (www.geocities.com/satanicreds/)
then that's fine; but curious. I have then to question why you do NOT
grasp this. I rather find that a bit hard to believe if you are a
Setian Priest. Now that I've read FOR MYSELF, some TOS stuff on this
(instead of seeing select and skewed portions shown to me by enemies of
the tos, and which were obviously designed to make it look stupid), I
find it hard to believe you can NOT understand these things. Dark Lord
of Transcendent Awareness. The guiding hand of that can be seen as a
dark force in/permeating/motivating all nature, including your OWN
nature - and so forth. You are a Setian Priest and you DO NOT
understand that? How strange. I have found very similar, if not
identical, statements on TOS's own websites - that is, the same
CONCEPTS. I know one Setian who most certainly, absolutely, DOES
understand it - because prior to being TOS he was Vajrayana - real
Lamas. Legit. And those in our org understand it perfectly, helped to
some of write it, and agree with it. That is the ONLY thing that
matters. I'm sure you agree. These (mentioned above) are not on Vad's
website. Heh, his website, as I only saw since online, was like a god
damned ad for the cos. That was the complete opposite of my intent and
my Will. Right, you didn't know that. How could you? You never
talked to me. I know you thought you did - well? Do you know Richard
Quick? I made for him an incense burner and a chalice in silver -
quite large items. He knew me a bit offline long prior to this flame
garbage - he most definitely knew what I really thought of the cos and
all the people in it, all those who would join such a thing. The same
as I think now. What I thought of "LaVeyan" Satanism then, I think
now. "Our Stance on LaVeyan Satanism." Go read it - same website,
down under the links. This is only "shocking news" to online people -
but most definitely NOT to offline people.
Understand something - I don't care what you or anyone else "thinks" of
me. I have never lived my life caring what "others" thought, or
if "others" liked my hair or my clothing or whatever else. It's 100%
irrelevent. If you would like to TALK to those that you "thought were
me" you can email them. Want their emails? I don't think so. But
just tell me, no problem. Want them to call you, or you call them on a
phone? I can easily ask! No problem. There are those that know me
quite well - that's that. I respect THEM - and value their friendship -
knowing them is enhancing to ME. I love them.
You, on the other hand, with all this angst and whining "they kicked me
out, BUT BUT BUT" excuses excuses. They say they kicked you out for
the same reasons that you say you got kicked out. And? You loved the
TOS. I despised the COS. I kept clear of their people; I had more
respect for gang bangers than I had for 99% of the cos people. I LIKED
LaVey, sort of, felt sorry for him, knew people who REALLY knew him
when he was younger, but I know he duped Dr. Aquino - I know that
absolutely. It was never about anything except himself! No Satan!
Nothing. I knew that back in the early 1970's. You had cosmic respect
for the TOS and for Dr. Aquino. Now that's gone? When I got online,
after cleaning up MESSES the cos made with Jill - I exposed them all.
And oh, I was in a very good "position" to do it.
>
> The whole effort was pretty damn silly in retrospect. I wouldn't
bother
> doing it again, and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone else who has an
> otherwise productive life or meaningful hobby.
I wouldn't recommend argueing with a gang of inner city gang type kids
either. As for me, argueing with me is like arguing with a shadow.
You have your opinion; I have mine. And? So what. You drink tea.
I'll drink coffee. That's fine. I do not go jihading for any org -
especially one that charges a c-note. When it became expedient due to
being attacked for what cos did to someone else, I took "credit" for
things, puffed it all up. So? Strategy. Why NOT get their help:
after all, I was being accused of cult abuse by a total stranger due to
what COS did to her. But that's cleaned up. (Free at last...) Our
org is very simple: IF you agree, and IF you want to join - do so. IF
you don't agree, go away and don't join. We aren't going to argue our
stances on ANYTHING - mind you, some of it is political, real world.
NO argument. How much more simple can it be? Now: THAT IS ME - the
real me. I just find it a tad hard to fathom that you do NOT
understand something like Asat Sat and Tan when the words are defined
and explained. I have no problem understanding the heavier stuff on
Xeper I saw for myself (but never saw before) - it's the same thing -
different language. Go read LHP and RHP - see if you recognize that:
same website www.geocities.com/satanicreds/
For a while when I first got online people were perplexed to find out
that they were talking to Bren or Jackson or Casey Ley and NOT ME at
all. I believe Peggy confirmed it if they asked. Then there was
confusion since Jeff Gerber and I use the same account. I post from
his "confirm" site - yet when he posts on alt.satanism, my deja account
shows up. Whatever. What's the confusion? I'm me. Jeff is Jeff.
Our pictures are on Vads. I do not have "sock puppets" - didn't even
know what the hell that was. I do not post anonymously - the only time
I tried, since it was a copyright thing I wanted to post, it didn't
work.
TJ
Kerry Delf
> "Mr. Scratch" <scr...@efn.org> wrote:
>
> > Another example of this is to be found in the experience of my wife,
> > Kerry Delf. Though not a member of the Temple, she appreciated its
> > membership and philosophy, and sought a proactive means of furthering
> > its goals.
>
> Oh? By doing what?
Primarily by providing information to seekers and by communicating with
those who appreciated the chance to speak with me in my role as a
semi-detached observing non-member before sending in their applications.
Ironically, I was the gateway to the Temple for quite a number of people.
> Contacting the NIH and other such organizations and splattering my
> name around as the author of something I didn't even write? Yeah,
> RIGHT. And then there was the DEATH PORNO with the names of minors in
> it. Remember THAT? I went to the FBI. REMEMBER THAT?
If it weren't for the fact that I know *nothing* should surprise me where
Tani Jantsang is concerned, I'd be rather taken aback at claims like
this. As it is, I find it vaguely amusing.
I have never contacted the NIH (I assume she means the National Institutes
of Health) regarding Tani Jantsang. I can't even fathom what would be the
purpose in doing so. I *don't* actually recall any "DEATH PORNO with the
names of minors in it" -- any "death porno" at all, even -- and I
certainly didn't write any. If such messages were indeed posted by anyone
to alt.satanism during my tenure on this newsgroup, a Deja link or even a
quick synopsis might jog my memory. I must say, however, that I'm rather
doubtful regarding that conditional clause; we've all seen how malleable
Tani's memory and interpretation can be.
I *DO* recall graphic death threats being made against me in Tani's
name. I *DO* recall attempts on her behalf to incite racially motivated
violence against myself, Scratch, and Lupo. I *DO* recall that she or one
of her flying monkeys sent physical hate mail to Scratch, and contacted
the local police department and the university at which he was a student
in order to "warn" them of the evil Satanist in their midst. I *DO*
recall quite a bit of frothing at the mouth. But I don't recall any of
the BS Tani claims occurred.
> Ok, she's SAINT Kerry. Got it.
Nope. But I *am* at least sane, honest, and rational, which is more than
can be said for Tani...and to place this back in the context of what
Scratch was talking about (somehow things get twisted around to an
incredibly warped perspective on totally unrelated subjects whenever Tani
jumps into a thread), I never did anything to harm, threaten, or subvert
the Temple of Set.
Get a clue, Tani. You claim you didn't know what was going on here on
alt.satanism, and that you didn't write the material that your lackeys
claimed you did, during the period (1995-1998, as I recall) when battles
were raging in your name. So either you are lying through your teeth
about your supposed ignorance and lack of involvement, and are now telling
more self-serving lies about what was said and done by whom during that
period (because you're certainly making a hell of a lot of false
claims)...or you are telling the truth about this, you didn't know what
was going on, and should recognize that you don't know shit about any of
us, what we said, what we did, or what the actual order of events
was. It's clear to anyone who was here to observe the events in question
that, given your current claims, you are either lying or insane (or
possibly both).
Either way, I suggest you back off.
-Kerry Delf
k...@efn.org
-----
"For those who stubbornly seek freedom, there can be no more urgent task
than to come to understand the mechanisms and practices of indoctrination.
These are easy to perceive in the totalitarian societies, much less so in
the system of 'brainwashing under freedom' to which we are subjected and
which all too often we serve as willing or unwitting participants."
-- Noam Chomsky
Kerry Delf
> You get a clue Scratch, or - who wrote this?
Do try to follow the attributions, Tani. I responded to your post;
Scratch responded to mine. (( This is what I get for posting to a.s
without mentioning it to my spouse; he goes and talks back in public.
<chuckle> ))
> Try to catch one thrown your way - the people who wrote it "in my
> name?" no, maybe even USING my name, but in the name of the COS, have
> admitted to writing it.
Ah... Using your name, claiming material was written by you, all with
your support and approval -- I'd say that was indeed done "in your name."
I wrote:
> > > So either you are lying through your teeth about your supposed
> > > ignorance and lack of involvement, and are now telling more
> > > self-serving lies about what was said and done by whom during that
> > > period (because you're certainly making a hell of a lot of false
> > > claims)...or you are telling the truth about this, you didn't know
> > > what was going on, and should recognize that you don't know shit
> > > about any of us, what we said, what we did, or what the actual order
> > > of events was.
>
> I take responsbility - but do I know about all of it? No, I saw maybe
> - all told? 20 pages of it, more or less. [...] No, I had no idea it
> drifted so far away from "dark force." Repeat that: I had no idea.
> No one printed it out - why would anyone waste that much ink? Or
> postage? [...] If I wanted to lie about it, I'd claim I knew NOTHING
> about it. I could. But THIS, what you say, is true: I don't know
> really what you said, or what anyone else really said. [...] You or
> Kerry did NOT do that? OK. I don't see you have any reason to lie
> about it. You are right there. I don't know what went on. [...] But
> you are 100% right here. I DONT know. I don't even know if what I
> was looking at, printed out, were real posts taken from here.
> Apparently, they were not. It's not just Dr. Aquino that swears he
> never posted such a thing, but the News doesn't remember seeing
> anything like that either and they are an independent source. Have I
> seen other samples of "pretend posts and letters" from the same
> sources? Oh yes. Ok then. I believe you. I have no other choice.
> See how simple that is?
Given your comments (prior to our unexpected return to alt.satanism) such
as... "The title never meant anything - but was good for BOO-ing one Mr.
Scratch and getting the 'yes Magistra' from the cos suckups" and "I didn't
even flame you: I flamed Scratch," ...I have a rather difficult time
believing that you really, honestly,
how-can-you-disbelieve-me-here-with-my-big-pouty-eyes, weren't the person
Scratch (and occasionally I) was arguing with oh so long ago. However, to
give you the benefit of the doubt for the moment, let's say you're telling
the truth in your redundant admissions of total ignorance above.
I suggest, then, that you take that admission to heart, fully recognize
that you are ignorant as to what actually occurred on this newsgroup
1995-1998, and stop making claims about what "actually happened." To jog
your memory, you have, just since we reappeared a few weeks ago, so far
claimed that:
1. "Scratch's wife also took information I DID NOT write, NEVER wrote, and
emailed institutes like the NIH and gave them my name, claiming I wrote
such things. They did do stuff like that."
Nope. Never happened.
2. [Kerry] contact[ed] the NIH and other such organizations and
splatter[ed] my name around as the author of something I didn't even
write."
Nope. Still never happened.
3. "...And then there was the DEATH PORNO with the names of minors in it."
Which I didn't write, despite your implication.
4. "As for anyone being the victim of husband abuse - BS! What started
that vicious flame war with the white devil gang kids years ago, so bad
that I DID go to the FBI (and had to sign and give them my WHOLE
information, btw)? Scratch started it by bringing up his SICK S and M
practices and bragging about his arsenal of guns in threatening tones."
Scratch is so far from being into S/M this is laughable. He mentioned his
collection of firearms in response to threats from your flying monkeys,
rather in the tone of "don't bring a knife to a gunfight." Somehow you
get from this that "Scratch STARTED it (wah!) by talking about icky-yucky
S&M and talking about (shudder) GUNS!" Another gross rewrite of history,
something we've come to expect from you.
5. "I would believe 100%, due to the hateful violent shit he wrote me
simply because I defended the 'DARK FORCE' that HE tortured Don Webb's
wife. PULL UP HIS POSTS - it's all there."
No comment necessary.
6. "When that got so bad that death threats and death porno got involved
online"
You do realize that the death threats were coming from YOUR people, right
Tani?
You seem to have an incredibly warped picture of what went down here...and
although you claim you had nothing to do with it, and didn't know the
details of what was happening, you haven't taken the logical next step and
decided to refrain from spewing your misinformation all over the
NG. Again, I suggest you choose from this point forward to take that
logical step, and stop telling lies about us.
> But, ok - forget all that, you are trying to paint yourselves as
> little Setian Angels in the TOS, amidst a pack of lying deceiving
> wolves. One week prior to that expulsion, the pack of lying deceiving
> wolves would have been Great Educators, Wise People.
Neither of us are angels, nor have we ever claimed to be. Neither of us
are always nice, though I'm inclined by nature to be so. Neither of us
thought the ToS was perfect, nor (certainly!) that its hierarchy was
perfect and unmotivated by impure political considerations.
However, neither of us ever did anything to harm the ToS, nor did we
deserve the shoddy treatment we received at the hands of its
administration.
The observations regarding the Temple of Set's hierarchy, apparent
clandestine maneuverings, and political motivations which Scratch has
recently been posting to this newsgroup are not new, a "sour grapes"
response to his expulsion; he's been very quietly making coming to those
conclusions over the past several years, doing what he could to smooth
over some of the bumps he had any hope of helping, and becoming more and
more detached from the ToS as a direct result of the bullshit he was
seeing. The observations are far from recent, though their public
revelation is. He simply has no motivation to keep silent about his
concerns now, and every reason to expose them.
> TJ
SVsite
alt.satanism. From Dr. A., from Lilith, from anon Setians." Thus far,
samples of Dr. Aquino and Lilith slandering Phil and I all over were
fakes. Neither Dr. A, nor an independend news service watching the
entire thing, saw any of that. Dr. A. denies ever writing such. WHO
SHOWED THIS TO US? Guess.
Apparently you can't read. What did I say? I have no choice but to
believe you, since I have NO WAY to prove you did or did not do that.
What did I say? WHO SHOWED ME THE HARD COPY PRINT OUTS of what I
accused? GUESS.
What did I say? THEY WERE DOING THEIR JIHAD FOR THE COS. Not for me.
They KNEW what I thought of the CoS. The same as I think now. Not
think: KNOW. It was LaVey that was "attacked," along with Barton who
was then pregnant. I was TOLD of slanderings of her pregnancy, never
saw even a print out of it.
What did I say? When it was strategic to CLAIM AND BRAG that I did it
for a short while, I did so. Luckily no one called me on just what the
content was. I wouldn't have known and it's nowhere to be found.
Trust me, I looked.
THAT WAS WHAT WAS SHOWN HARD COPY. Did I say that? Yes, you must have
missed it.
The threats I showed the Feds were on BOTH sides. Hard copies.
> However, neither of us ever did anything to harm the ToS, nor did we
> deserve the shoddy treatment we received at the hands of its
> administration.
Agree.
I find it difficult to believe that you do NOT understand the articles
I gave urls for.
End of story.
Repeat: END OF STORY.
TJ
--
SOD of CoE
"Mr. Scratch" <scr...@efn.org>:
>> Get a clue, Tani....
>Good point, but it does no good to make it. Everyone who knows the deal
>with Tani already gets the gist. Those few who disagree are beyond
>arguing with.
killfile SVSite and be done with her! it made my newsreading easier.