Catalina 22 vs. Macgregor 26
Teakdeck
- I wish to purchase a trailer sailer and keep it on the trailer in an
enclosure near the ramp. This means I can keep the mast up as long as I'm not
towing the boat anywhere else.
- I want ease of launchng and retrieving.
- I do not have to have the higher speed motoring ability of the Macgregor (but
if I did have it, it might come in handy).
- The two boats I wish to compare are the Mac 26 and the Catalina 22.
- Here is how I think they compare:
- The Catalina looks more traditional and costs much less.
- The Mac is ugly and more expensive.
- The Catalina has a heavy iron centerboard, the Mac has water ballast and a
light centerboard.
- The Catalina has tiller steering and the Mac has wheel steering.
- The Catalina is more challenging than the Mac to launch and retrieve.
- The Catalina weighs more on the trailer than the Mac.
- The Catalina has a portapotti, the Mac has an enclosed head with portapotti.
- The Catalina is slower than the Mac.
Now I have never sailed either boat. I have sailed Hunters, bigger Catalina's,
an Ericson, a Santana 20, a Yankee 28, a Thistle and I built a 16 footer. So
I'm not a complete novice and I wouldn't buy either without a sea trial
(actually a Puget Sound trial - I do not plan any open ocean sailing).
Are my comparisons accurate? Is one boat better than the other? Do they even
compare?
I have seen e-mails trashing the Mac because of the overall "cheapness of the
boat" but let's put things in perspective here - I'm looking at 20 year old
Catalina's at around $3000 to %5000 so I don't know what kind of quality to
expect in boats that old. The Macs, on the other hand, are more expensive but
much newer.
So, what do you think?
Capt. Neal®
Teakdeck wrote in message
<19990719011550...@ng-ci1.aol.com>...
<some snipped>
>Here is my scenario:
>
>- I wish to purchase a trailer sailer and keep it on the
trailer in an
>enclosure near the ramp. This means I can keep the mast up
as long as I'm not
>towing the boat anywhere else.
>- The Catalina weighs more on the trailer than the Mac.
-----------------------
The statement immediately above says it all don't you think?
Whenever a 22 foot sailboat, which has a reputation of being
a decent little boat, weighs more that a 26-footer whose
only claim to fame is carrying a 50 HP motor, what does that
tell you?
Are you a sailor or a motor boater?
If you are a sailor, you should not even be considering the
Mac.
Respectfully,
Capt. Neal
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SAIL LOCO
better constructed and faster.
"Trains are a winter sport"
Bobsprit
-----------------------
The statement immediately above says it all don't you think?>>
Very true...the Catalina 22 was listed somewhere as one the of best little
designs ever. It is also a very popular little boat with a super strong owners
assoc, There are also active racing fleets everywhere.
The Mac26x is beyond horrid looking and built to Yugo-like standards. There's a
26x in my area and it brings giggles from the locals. I'd rather be aboard a
Bucaneer....
Robert B
NY
Joshua Lehman
price.
Josh
By the way what's up with the trains?
Kgsmithson
Catalina. Crewed on one for 3 seasons and only fault was a centerboard that
made noise
Sailboat Bum
weather. I found it to be fun and easy to handle. It is not a slow sailboat
(for it's size and type) and there are fleets of them almost everywhere. I
have seen many Catalina 22 only races even in the remote lake of Texas. They
trailer easy and I had no problem rigging, launching and sailing mine single
handed. Mine was a swing keel but they are also available with fin and wing
keels. Never been on a Mac 26 but my Catalina was a great boat. A careful
shopper can find a nice older Catalina for about $2000 or you can pay much
more.
Good luck with your choice.
Boats are easy to buy but can be hard to sell, you might own your choice a
long time.
Ed
my endorsement goes 100% to the Catalina.
However, there are better trailerable choices than either you've listed.
Nevertheless, the Catalina is a good boat.
happy sails
Ed.
CS30 Valkyrie, Long Island Sound
Teakdeck wrote:
> Here is my scenario:
>
> - I wish to purchase a trailer sailer and keep it on the trailer in an
> enclosure near the ramp. This means I can keep the mast up as long as I'm not
> towing the boat anywhere else.
>
> - I want ease of launchng and retrieving.
>
> - I do not have to have the higher speed motoring ability of the Macgregor (but
> if I did have it, it might come in handy).
>
> - The two boats I wish to compare are the Mac 26 and the Catalina 22.
>
> - Here is how I think they compare:
>
> - The Catalina looks more traditional and costs much less.
>
> - The Mac is ugly and more expensive.
>
> - The Catalina has a heavy iron centerboard, the Mac has water ballast and a
> light centerboard.
>
> - The Catalina has tiller steering and the Mac has wheel steering.
>
> - The Catalina is more challenging than the Mac to launch and retrieve.
>
> - The Catalina weighs more on the trailer than the Mac.
>
Margaret and Loren Block
>- The Catalina has a heavy iron centerboard, the Mac has water ballast and a
>light centerboard.
>
[That heavy iron centerboard of the Catalina 22 is a swing keel. It does
require some maintenance but not a lot. The lesser draft requirement
makes launching easier than one with a fixed keel.]
If your wife's comfort is a factor in your sailing, the water ballast may
be a negative factor, although that disadvantage may be offset somewhat by
the larger form-factor of the 26. In our own case, we almost bought a
nearly new Hunter 19. In the sea trial, my wife did not feel comfortable
with the tenderness of the boat. Also, the quality did not seem to
compare with our little Capri 14.2. We passed on the Hunter and went on to
an 8 year old Catalina 22 for more money. We've had the C22 for almost 2
years now and are totally delighted.
Obviously biased but I encourage you to go for the Catalina 22! As someone
already mentioned, resale is likely to be easier with it and that may be
the best argument of all.
Good luck,
Margaret & Loren Block lor...@worldnet.att.net
Georgetown, TX
C22 #14903 "Perfect Harmony"
SAIL LOCO
price.
Josh>>>>>>
SAIL LOCO
old design. The Merit 22 and also the S2 6.9 (22') both rate the same as a
Catalina 27 tall rig which should give you an idea of performance. The Merit
and the S2 both have more sail area and weigh less. Both the Merit and the S2
use a lead drop keel (no rust) that gives the same performance as a fixed keel
boat (no swing keel slot to cause drag) and does not have the potential of the
lifting wire breaking. In the case of the Merit a nifty mast step design was
used that allowed the raising and lowering of the rig without loosening the
shrouds and retuning the rig everytime you launch or retrieve. The Merit has
the same amount of room down below so you loose nothing there. Most of both
designs were always sold with trailors. The Merit and the S2 are both better,
looking higher quality boats. No I don't have a Merit for sale but I did own
one for 9 years and never grew tired of it.
Jesse...@usm.edu
>So, what do you think?
>
as a dual purpose usually dont do either well-take that from
experience-not connected with the Mac 26. I agree with all of your
other statements. There is one very important one missing and that is
cabin room. I had a 1977 C22 and it sailed like a dream. I moved up
to a C25 because of room and I still am not used to the different
sized hull. The C22 is very small inside, sails great, has a large
cockpit. The C22 has one of the best user groups for sailboats on the
net (IMO). If size is important, cabin size that is, go with the
larger boat. If fun sailing is what you are after, the C22 is a
dream. I guess it depends on what is important to you and what you
want to do with the boat. I routinely have at least 4 folks and
weekend at the islands off the MS coast. Someone told me that the C22
would sleep 4 of your CLOSEST friends! What is attractive about
themac 26 is if you had the 50 hp motor, you could motor to your
destination, say the islands, then sail till your hearts content.
There is one in our marina set up that way. If I have learned one
thing in this world it is that everything has its advantages and
disadvantages. Hope some of this helps. Id be glad to answer any
specific questions about the C22. Oh and the "twenty yr old boat"
shouldnt scare you a bit. They were much better built than they are
nowadays.
Jonathan Ganz
found it to be a wonderful little boat.
I also know someone who bought a Mac and loved it, but they were not
doing much sailing... mostly just motoring around and having parties
on the boat. I guess it depends on what you want to do with the boat.
I'd pick a Merit or Catalina.
Jonathan
--
Jonathan Ganz
ga...@sailnow.com
http://www.sailnow.com
Rick
I don't understand how you can compare an older $3000.00 22ft. Catalina
to a Mac26x which has to be at least a late 1995 and costupward of
$15000. That is ridiculous. If you can afford to buy a used 26x I'm
sure you can do better than an older Catalina 22. Maybe a newer
Catalina.
Good Luck
Rick
NUMA
want and is
better constructed and faster.>>
I'll second that opinion-the Merit 22 is not too well known, only made for a
few years in the 80s, however, I love my 83, other owners I've talked to love
theirs, too. Boat is easy to trailer launch, has a nice 600 lb lead lifting
keel, a real aluminum toerail and a comfortable cockpit. I sometimes sail on
Lake Michigan in 2-4 foot waves and the boat doesn't complain...my guests do!
Check the sailnet reviews for more info.
Teakdeck
I'd appreciate hearing your other choices.
Thanks.
Mike<< Given your restriction of wanting to compare only the Catalina 22 and
Teakdeck
How did you find launching and retrieving the Catalina 22?
Did you have to take apart the swing keel?
How about stepping the mast and rigging the boat? One man or more? Were you
exhausted by the time you were done?
Did you use a roller furler? or multiple sails?
Any trailer problems? Will my Jeep Cherokee pull it from Olympia to the San
Juans?
Whew!
Thanks,
Mike<<
Sailboat Bum
I had a slip at the local lake so did not have to do it often.
I towed my Cat22 with a 3/4 ton GMC van with no problem although trailer
brakes would have been a nice addition and it was a bit heavy getting out of
the water
I rigged prior to launching and used the jib halyard around the ladder on
the back of my van. Hard but works, You should have two men.
The swing keel just cranks up to load then rides on the trailer. Very
simple.
I used hank on sails on my boat and had all lines led to the coskpit. I also
rigged a downhaul to help get the jib down and keep it on the deck.
Check the Thrifty nickel and do a national search
www.thriftynickelonline.com (think that is the right URL)
I have been looking for a larger boat and saw several Catalina 22's for
sale, one for $800. without sails
Good Luck
Sailboat Bum
Gypsy Rose 1975 Hunter 27
.
Ed
OK, you asked for it. So here goes. My recommendations are based on a very
important bias: I believe in true ballast for a sailboat that is not a
daysailor. I urge you to give very serious consideration to a keel-centerboard
configuration for your choice of a trailerable weekender. Here's why:
1. A k-cb boat will always have the ballast where it belongs: low and under the
boat regardless of water tanks, broken cables, jammed cable winches, etc.
2. A k-cb boat is only marginally more difficult to launch than anything you're
looking at, AND with a simple trailer tongue extender, the difficulty
disappears.
3. A k-cb boat is significantly more stable, smooth sailing and less skittish
than your other configurations because it has true, permanent ballast.
4. If anyone questions the design viability of a k-cb boat, simply refer them
to the fact that the following builders use the design in many of their boats:
Hinkley, Little Harbor, Tartan, Bristol, and that the design was and is employed
by such designers as: Ted Hood and Sparkman and Stephens.
5. I had a 22 foot keel-centerboarder with a legitimate lead keel. With the
board up, the boat drew 1'10" -- or only 2" more than the Catalina with its iron
swing keel.
(I also had a 30 foot Tartan 3000 with a k-cb, but that's not relevant here).
OK, now for some possible k-cb boat choices:
--Precision 21 or 23
--Quickstep 21 or 24 (used only)
--O'Day 222 (the lowest choice on my list -- used only)
--Gloucester 22 (My highest recommendation by far. Yes, this is the one I had.
They are available only on the used market. I don't have one, but I think I
know where one might be found -- not sure. I do know there is one for sale in
Maine.)
-- Starwind 23
Happy Hunting
Ed.
CS30, Valkyrie, Long Island Sound
SAIL LOCO
skittish
than your other configurations because it has true, permanent ballast.>>>>>>>
untrue and impossible. Yes it has permanent balast but it is all located "up
high" very close to the hull not down deep where it has a lever effect. SO
THEY ARE LESS STABLE. Most k-cb also have to carry around more weight because
of it being located "up high" and more weight means less performance. With the
exception of the Oday's the others you mention are well made boats.
Zane
>Here is my scenario:
>
>- I wish to purchase a trailer sailer and keep it on the trailer in an
>enclosure near the ramp. This means I can keep the mast up as long as I'm not
>towing the boat anywhere else.
>
>- I want ease of launchng and retrieving.
>
>- I do not have to have the higher speed motoring ability of the Macgregor (but
>if I did have it, it might come in handy).
>
>- The two boats I wish to compare are the Mac 26 and the Catalina 22.
I don't know anything about the Mac 26, but I owned a Catalina 22 from 1974
to 1979. Here are some miscellaneous thoughts.
It is very easy to launch and retrieve. It's made to be. 30 minutes each
way is no problem and can be done faster with some trailer mods. Raising
and lowering the mast is best done with two people. There are winch rigs
you can get for one person, but you can damage the mast step (if you can
call it that) unless you modify it some.
Allthough I liked my Catalina, I have to say it's still something of a
half-assed boat. I haven't checked out the new ones much, but here are
some of my gripes about the ones I'm familiar with.
There're not too many slower boats on the water (look at the PHRF numbers).
(But, as someone said, if you want to go fast get a motorboat.)
The traveler is virtually useless. It's better on some newer ones but its
length and location make it hardly worth using.
The mast, boom, and shrouds are grossly undersized. The shrouds are
attached to the deck and can "pump" too much. The spreader attachments can
break easily and bring the mast down. (You can add heavier shrouds, bigger
backing plates, and modify the spreader arrangement so that everything is
fairly safe.)
You can separate the the front of the deck from the hull if you use a
normal backstay tensioner. (Again, you can modify the forestay attachment
so it loads the hull instead of the deck and get around this.)
Sitting on the rail is uncomfortable.
The deck gel coat deteriorates and crazes in a handful of years. The swing
keel has a tendency to get water between its covering and the iron and
develop big blisters.
All that said, It's not unusual for them to be going strong 25 years later.
People race them in gusty 30 knot breezes with no major problems. They
usually stay dry inside, and if you keep deck fittings sealed it doesn't
absorb water much. They take knockdowns better than most light boats as
long as you keep the seat hatches closed and the bottom of the companionway
hatch blocked (assuming you've made the rigging mods I mentioned).
All in all, not a bad choice for a trailerable boat. There are just not
too many really good boats that are as light, easy to get on and off the
trailer, and can be pulled by virtually any SUV that have equivalent room
and accomodation. You can't beat the price (used).
Zane
Ed
people trailer J-22s and J-24s, but that's not what Mike is asking about.)
Are you seriously claiming that a water ballasted MacGregor -- with the ballast
INSIDE the hull -- has ballast located lower than a k-cb????
You must be standing on your empty head.
Ed.
SAIL LOCO
I won't reduce myself to your crudeness. Aparently you were thinking that
you were being attacked. If you were to have actually read any of my posts
regarding this topic you would know I never recomended the McGreagor. I only
replied to your comments in regard to the statement that k-cb boats are da best
when it comes to stability. That statement goes against the laws of phisics.
All of my comments were pertaining to the Merit 22 and the S2 6.9 and their
drop keels. It was my statement that these boats put the ballast down low
where it has an effect and they also eliminate the keel slot. When a drop keel
is down the bottom that is presented to the water is the same as a fixed keel
boat. So Mr. Ed I may be standing on a empty head but at least I can read.
CHADJOYCE
The Mac is not.
Todd Johnson
>Here is my scenario:
>
...a bunch of stuff comparing Catalina 22 to Mac 26x...
I'm an ex-Mac26x owner. For my review of the boat, go to
http://www.cruisecortez.com/webbbs/articles/index.cgi?read=1
T
----------------------------------------------------
Todd Johnson
mailto:to...@cruisecortez.com
Email address in header is spam-scrambled,
remove the underscores to reply.
http://www.cruisecortez.com
http://www.trailersailor.com
Bobsprit
http://www.cruisecortez.com/webbbs/articles/index.cgi?read=1>>
Great review!
Robert B
NY
Capt. Neal®
like yours in the magazines?
Respectfully,
Capt. Neal
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Todd Johnson wrote in message
<37969e6a...@news.speedchoice.com>...
>On 19 Jul 1999 05:15:50 GMT, teak...@aol.com (Teakdeck)
wrote:
>
>>Here is my scenario:
>>
>...a bunch of stuff comparing Catalina 22 to Mac 26x...
>
>I'm an ex-Mac26x owner. For my review of the boat, go to
>http://www.cruisecortez.com/webbbs/articles/index.cgi?read=
1
>
Todd Johnson
<Capt...@Bigfoot.com> wrote:
>Bravo! Now, why is it that we never see a realistic review
>like yours in the magazines?
>
I seldom see real boat reviews in magazines. Most of what are called
"new boat reviews" might as well be called "previews" or "overviews".
Almost never does a "reviewer" really put the boat through its paces
over a realistic period of time, or get deep into the guts of the
boat. You cannot "review" a boat by hopping aboard for a day sail.
When I bought the 26x it was in its first year of production, and I
made the decision based on several very positive "new boat reviews"
that came out in the usual magazines. Learned my lesson, I did.
Todd
Margaret and Loren Block
>I cant say much about the Mac 26 except that boats that are designed
>as a dual purpose usually dont do either well-take that from
>experience-not connected with the Mac 26. I agree with all of your
>other statements. There is one very important one missing and that is
>cabin room. I had a 1977 C22 and it sailed like a dream. I moved up
>to a C25 because of room and I still am not used to the different
>sized hull. The C22 is very small inside, sails great, has a large
>cockpit. The C22 has one of the best user groups for sailboats on the
>net (IMO). If size is important, cabin size that is, go with the
>larger boat. If fun sailing is what you are after, the C22 is a
>dream. I guess it depends on what is important to you and what you
>want to do with the boat. I routinely have at least 4 folks and
>weekend at the islands off the MS coast. Someone told me that the C22
>would sleep 4 of your CLOSEST friends! What is attractive about
>themac 26 is if you had the 50 hp motor, you could motor to your
>destination, say the islands, then sail till your hearts content.
>There is one in our marina set up that way. If I have learned one
>thing in this world it is that everything has its advantages and
>disadvantages. Hope some of this helps. Id be glad to answer any
>specific questions about the C22. Oh and the "twenty yr old boat"
>shouldnt scare you a bit. They were much better built than they are
>nowadays.
I questioned Jesse privately about the last sentence in his posting but was
still unable to understand how he arrived at that conclusion. So I posted
the question "Are Older C22s Sturdier?" to the Catalina 22 Mailing List.
Thanks to the experienced and respected sailors who provided these
responses shown below. From these I'm convinced that newer C22s are better
built than the older ones.
Jesse???
Thanks very much to William, Randy, and Phil for their inputs!
LB
-------------------------------
Here was my inquiry to the C22 Mailing List:
Every once in a while I see someone talk about the older boats being
"generally" sturdier. Is this true of the Catalina 22s? I have the
impression that the newer C22s are more trouble free and have more
reinforcement where there have been problems, e.g. heavier transom, better
bow eye backing, better mast step, etc. And I get the impression that the
older C22s are generally preferred for racing over the C22s produced in the
late 80's and early 90's. I also get the impression that the MKII is
faster yet. But speed is not the issue here. I'd like to know what is the
real difference in construction features? Which model of C22 was really
the stronger, more durable boat overall when it was new? How would they
compare today on the average today, i.e. a typical '74 with a '99?
Just curious....
Loren
-----------------------------------------------------------------
C22 Mailing List
From: whol...@on-ramp.ior.com (William Holcomb)
Hi Loren,
Your impression that the newer C22 are more trouble free is probably right.
The older C22s have the reputation for being faster since they are as much
as 500 lbs lighter than the newer versions. Lighter equates in most cases
to weaker structures in the older boats. If you were a racer, one of the
early C22s is great. If you're a family cruiser and daysailer, you've
already figured out that they have fewer problems.
Bill Holcomb
C25 Snickerdoodle #4839
------------------------------------------------------------------
C22 Mailing list
From: "Randy Garrett" <wind...@softcom.net>
Loren
I own both an older 22 and a new MKll. The reason for buying the new boat
was because I do a lot of off shore sailing and the swing keel is a bad
choice for open water. A swing keel in following seas is bad news.
Even though I've been scoring high in races lately, I'm not sure how the
MKll would fair among the early boats in a heads up race. I was planning to
do the Regionals and Nationals but the 22 Association saw fit to outlaw my
boat even though it was a factory stock item. I guess they might think it
faster, but there are some darn fast early 22's out there.
As far as the way they are put together------We're looking at 30 years of
improvements in material and design.
I thing the MKll is a much better boat but I own one. And there is
something to say about the different keel designs. My old boat is a swing
and the MKll is a deep fixed fin.
The person to give you all the info on the different early 22 is Phil
Agur. He's had a couple of the 22's and raced with the association for a
number of years.
Randy
C22 MKll Dream Chaser
C30 Rosie
----------------------------------------------
C22 Mailing List
From: Phil Agur pja...@directcon.net
Loren,
Catalina has been making a better boat generation by generation. I've
owned an Old Style and a New Style swing keel. The Old Styles have many
short comings, and in fact are very rarely raced successfully as stock
boats. I've seen multiple stock old style rigs fail attempting to race in
regionals, where for the first time they push their boats to keep up.
The source of the reinforced deck hardware and mast fittings is the stock
hardware off the New Style. The difference continues in the hull structure
itself. A New Style is much stiffer. Our two boats were both rigged for
racing, that is to say all the same strength and go fast rigging. When
facing high wind - open water races the Old Style stayed home. It was
indeed faster but this kind of once a year racing is just for fun. I don't
know that the Old Style would have broke but the extra 600 lbs of the New
Style made for a much more confident sail.
So as a rule of thumb, New Styles are stronger than Old Styles, however
there are many Old Styles which have been upgraded with critical New Style
hardware that have performed very well under harsh conditions for years.
This week I photographed a C22 simply called BOAT for Fleet 4's Website.
It's a cruiser with all the upgrades we normally think of just going into
the raced Old Styles.
--
Phil Agur, Fleet 4's Website http://www.directcon.net/pjagur/
C270 #184 Wing Tip
------------------------------------------
Thanks again!
Loren